Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[sandman]

Do you guys who still support Trump...which is mind boggling to me and many other moderates, democrats and republicans alike... but you are entitled to fell any way you'd like...

Do you support his stance on DACA too? Like deep down you think it's right to deport people who came here as children and have done nothing wrong other than have brown skin?

my guess is that you do not even understand Trump's current stance on DACA. therefore, expressing any opinions about such could lead to further confusion.

I understand it perfectly.

Like everything he does and says, is all to appeal his voting base... people like you.

Wrong! His base is not happy with this. The far right is really up in arms. Do some reading. and stop assuming the worst and not thinking for yourself.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Do you guys who still support Trump...which is mind boggling to me and many other moderates, democrats and republicans alike... but you are entitled to fell any way you'd like...

Do you support his stance on DACA too? Like deep down you think it's right to deport people who came here as children and have done nothing wrong other than have brown skin?

What this comes down to is that the Constitution doesn't say that the president gets to make his own law if Congress doesn't do what he wants. It has to do with the whole separation of powers thing.

In 2012 Obama asked for a DACA bill from Congress and didn't get it. So he just decided to executive order DACA and override them. But even Obama said his executive order was a temporary program.

What Trump did has nothing to do with racism or singling out 'brown people'.  He pretty much told Congress to do it the right way and gave them a 6 month deadline. 

My opinion is that they need to give the ones here a pass that have established themselves and any future arrivals would have to actually be accountable and be subject to the laws already on the books. Congress can pass this if they stop bitching and whining about doing their job as well pointing their fingers at each other and saying not my fault.

Totally agree with you here. The ones already here should get a pass. They are here through no fault of their own and should not get thrown out simply cause their parents brought them here illegally. I also agree congress needs to do a law like Obama wanted and like Trump wants. I think we can also agree the chance of that happening and congress actually doing their job is slim. They're more interested in destroying health care.

I think Healthcare already has been in the process of being destroyed further by the ACA. It helps some ( I am benefiting from it but I'm not just looking at my own needs) but others it isn't  helping, actually raising premiums considerably on people. Doesn't solve some key issues like prescription drug prices and don't think its the federal governments role or capability to effectively manage the health care industry.  Theres a lot the FDA can do regarding prescription drugs, like like allowing more competition and going after monopolies (  remember the Epi-Pen? ) Obamacare isn't a a solvent program financially. Id be for a fix if one could be found that worked. But think we'll end up needing a new system,  there are other ideas that are worth trying like that letting insurance companies sell across state lines or have the feds defer health care to the states. One thing is for sure, just going back to the Pre Obama care system isn't an option. But there is no easy roadmap on this and we are dealing with a bunch of children in Congress ( which I think  is the biggest dysfunction we have in our govt) , so we are where we are.  OK rant over, sorry for going off on a tangent......

[tim_m]

Do you guys who still support Trump...which is mind boggling to me and many other moderates, democrats and republicans alike... but you are entitled to fell any way you'd like...

Do you support his stance on DACA too? Like deep down you think it's right to deport people who came here as children and have done nothing wrong other than have brown skin?

What this comes down to is that the Constitution doesn't say that the president gets to make his own law if Congress doesn't do what he wants. It has to do with the whole separation of powers thing.

In 2012 Obama asked for a DACA bill from Congress and didn't get it. So he just decided to executive order DACA and override them. But even Obama said his executive order was a temporary program.

What Trump did has nothing to do with racism or singling out 'brown people'.  He pretty much told Congress to do it the right way and gave them a 6 month deadline. 

My opinion is that they need to give the ones here a pass that have established themselves and any future arrivals would have to actually be accountable and be subject to the laws already on the books. Congress can pass this if they stop bitching and whining about doing their job as well pointing their fingers at each other and saying not my fault.

Totally agree with you here. The ones already here should get a pass. They are here through no fault of their own and should not get thrown out simply cause their parents brought them here illegally. I also agree congress needs to do a law like Obama wanted and like Trump wants. I think we can also agree the chance of that happening and congress actually doing their job is slim. They're more interested in destroying health care.

I think Healthcare already has been in the process of being destroyed further by the ACA. It helps some ( I am benefiting from it but I'm not just looking at my own needs) but others it isn't  helping, actually raising premiums considerably on people. Doesn't solve some key issues like prescription drug prices and don't think its the federal governments role or capability to effectively manage the health care industry.  Theres a lot the FDA can do regarding prescription drugs, like like allowing more competition and going after monopolies (  remember the Epi-Pen? ) Obamacare isn't a a solvent program financially. Id be for a fix if one could be found that worked. But think we'll end up needing a new system,  there are other ideas that are worth trying like that letting insurance companies sell across state lines or have the feds defer health care to the states. One thing is for sure, just going back to the Pre Obama care system isn't an option. But there is no easy roadmap on this and we are dealing with a bunch of children in Congress ( which I think  is the biggest dysfunction we have in our govt) , so we are where we are.  OK rant over, sorry for going off on a tangent......

Obamacare certainly has its issues for sure. Some have benefited from it some not. Lots of factors are at play imo. Where you live, if you're in a state with state exchanges etc. Something definitely has to be done about prescription drugs. One thing is not allowing little shits like the idiot who bought epi-pen and then raised the price 1000%. It would be great if the FDA could help by allowing competition. I do like your suggestions, i think they'd certainly help but i don't think they'd solve it entirely. If there's a way to fix Obamacare i am all for it, but your right repealing it and going back to how it was with no viable plan is not the answer. Letting govt in control of it probably isn't the answer but neither is giving control to the insurance companies. IMO our biggest healthcare problem is we have a for profit system. Large insurance companies and drug companies should not be profiting off of you being sick.

[pilferk]

Do you guys who still support Trump...which is mind boggling to me and many other moderates, democrats and republicans alike... but you are entitled to fell any way you'd like...

Do you support his stance on DACA too? Like deep down you think it's right to deport people who came here as children and have done nothing wrong other than have brown skin?

What this comes down to is that the Constitution doesn't say that the president gets to make his own law if Congress doesn't do what he wants. It has to do with the whole separation of powers thing.

In 2012 Obama asked for a DACA bill from Congress and didn't get it. So he just decided to executive order DACA and override them. But even Obama said his executive order was a temporary program.

What Trump did has nothing to do with racism or singling out 'brown people'.  He pretty much told Congress to do it the right way and gave them a 6 month deadline. 

My opinion is that they need to give the ones here a pass that have established themselves and any future arrivals would have to actually be accountable and be subject to the laws already on the books. Congress can pass this if they stop bitching and whining about doing their job as well pointing their fingers at each other and saying not my fault.

Totally agree with you here. The ones already here should get a pass. They are here through no fault of their own and should not get thrown out simply cause their parents brought them here illegally. I also agree congress needs to do a law like Obama wanted and like Trump wants. I think we can also agree the chance of that happening and congress actually doing their job is slim. They're more interested in destroying health care.

I think Healthcare already has been in the process of being destroyed further by the ACA. It helps some ( I am benefiting from it but I'm not just looking at my own needs) but others it isn't  helping, actually raising premiums considerably on people. Doesn't solve some key issues like prescription drug prices and don't think its the federal governments role or capability to effectively manage the health care industry.  Theres a lot the FDA can do regarding prescription drugs, like like allowing more competition and going after monopolies (  remember the Epi-Pen? ) Obamacare isn't a a solvent program financially. Id be for a fix if one could be found that worked. But think we'll end up needing a new system,  there are other ideas that are worth trying like that letting insurance companies sell across state lines or have the feds defer health care to the states. One thing is for sure, just going back to the Pre Obama care system isn't an option. But there is no easy roadmap on this and we are dealing with a bunch of children in Congress ( which I think  is the biggest dysfunction we have in our govt) , so we are where we are.  OK rant over, sorry for going off on a tangent......

Obamacare certainly has its issues for sure. Some have benefited from it some not. Lots of factors are at play imo. Where you live, if you're in a state with state exchanges etc. Something definitely has to be done about prescription drugs. One thing is not allowing little shits like the idiot who bought epi-pen and then raised the price 1000%. It would be great if the FDA could help by allowing competition. I do like your suggestions, i think they'd certainly help but i don't think they'd solve it entirely. If there's a way to fix Obamacare i am all for it, but your right repealing it and going back to how it was with no viable plan is not the answer. Letting govt in control of it probably isn't the answer but neither is giving control to the insurance companies. IMO our biggest healthcare problem is we have a for profit system. Large insurance companies and drug companies should not be profiting off of you being sick.

When we talked about this 5+ years ago, in one of the previous threads, I said "No Healthcare system is going to work, really, without perscription drug reform and torte (aka medical malpractice) lawsuit reform".  Those two factors are such a huge contributing factor to costs, ignoring them just sets everything up for failure.

BUT, having said that, the Obamacare "death spiral" isn't really death, it's, at best, assisted suicide (and at worst, murder).  Look at the states where it has gone badly. Repub governors who a) refused to set up state sponsored exchanges and depended on the fed exchange (which is rubbish) and b) refused to take part in the medicaid expansion (that was federally funded).  The refusal to actually enforce the individual mandate also helped kill the markets this year, and that was a TRUMP IRS EO.  You'll see prices spike, again, for next year, since Trump is playing fast and loose with the insurance company payments, and that uncertainty on reimbursement is going to hurt premium prices being set for next year.  Contrary to popular belief, insurers in markets where governors DID what was originally expected did pretty well in 2016.  It was the first real profitable year for them (and offsets actually shrunk) in terms of those customers (and they're still making BILLIONS from the employer provided products...so it's hard to get too sad for them). And yes, some markets lack insurers....but the WHY of that isn't just profit motived.

There are issues.  It needs fixing.  No doubt about it.  But at least SOME of them are being caused by the Repubs playing politics.  They keep bringing up the "across state lines" mantra.  That's not something that needs to be done outside the ACA.  And Dems have said, right along, they're on board with a provision, so long as it incorporates the other necessary fixes (and that means holding Big Pharma accountable..something the Repubs do not seem willing to do...and had absolutely NO presence in their "tax breaks for the rich but we'll call it healthcare" bills), too.

[sandman]

Bannon is the man! war on the GOP! love it. incredible interview. extremely smart man. him leaving the administration was the best thing that could have happened.

MAGA!

[Dr. Blutarsky]

I like the fact that Trump can make a deal with the dems over the objections of the GOP as he did with raising the debt ceiling.

Trump may have run as a Republican but he really is an independent.

 A good sign.

[tim_m]

I like the fact that Trump can make a deal with the dems over the objections of the GOP as he did with raising the debt ceiling.

Trump may have run as a Republican but he really is an independent.

 A good sign.

Anyone that thinks he's a republican is kidding themselves. Remember he famously said if he ever ran he'd run as a republican cause they're the dumbest.

[sandman]

I like the fact that Trump can make a deal with the dems over the objections of the GOP as he did with raising the debt ceiling.

Trump may have run as a Republican but he really is an independent.

 A good sign.

Anyone that thinks he's a republican is kidding themselves. Remember he famously said if he ever ran he'd run as a republican cause they're the dumbest.

"Famously said" 

Fake news. SAD!

[pilferk]

I like the fact that Trump can make a deal with the dems over the objections of the GOP as he did with raising the debt ceiling.

Trump may have run as a Republican but he really is an independent.

 A good sign.

I love people calling this a "Deal".

He gave the dems everything they asked for, basically gave them massive opposition power in December to bargain with, and got...."positive news coverage".

I'm not sure you can call giving the other side everything and getting nothing in return (because they would have voted for Harvey and the funding in the bill anyway) "making a deal".

But to each their own, I guess.

[pilferk]

Anyone that thinks he's a republican is kidding themselves. Remember he famously said if he ever ran he'd run as a republican cause they're the dumbest.

If he ever said that, there's no documentation of it. Its decidedly NOT in the people magazine interview it's attributed to.

He did say he could shoot people in the street and not lose any votes.  Which might amount to the same sentiment....

[COMAMOTIVE]

Trump's comments today were well done.
Brief and somber

[tim_m]

Except for the fact that he you know didn't call it terrorism. You know damn well if it was a brown person or a Muslim he'd have said Islamic terrorism and be calling for more travel bans.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Except for the fact that he you know didn't call it terrorism. You know damn well if it was a brown person or a Muslim he'd have said Islamic terrorism and be calling for more travel bans.

We don't know yet what the motivation was for the shooter. Was it religious?  Racial? Snapped due to a huge gambling problem? aversion to country music?

 But this is a creative way to yet again call Trump a racist.

[COMAMOTIVE]

Seriously

Not a Trump fan -but biggest mass murder in our history, he struck the right tone and people still blast him for what he didn't say

Give it a rest

[tim_m]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

[sandman]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

you actually sound like a republican voter. "you must call it Islamic terrorism!!!!"
 

I believe there is a technical definition of a terrorist attack. it is an attack done for political or religious reasons.

can this guy be referred to as a terrorist? sure, many people will refer to him that way. but in light of the global war we are fighting against "JV" ISIS and other Islamic groups, it's important to maintain those distinctions. 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said Islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

I'm sure we would have heard a lot about travel bans if that was the case. But when he is an American with no direct family ties to another country it isn't applicable.  And his motivation ( we think) isn't based on any religious or political ideology, he doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist. This looks like more of a suicide by cop scenario and he wanted to be noticed so he took out as many people as he could in the process. And it goes without saying there was some severe mental illness happening with the shooter.

[tim_m]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said Islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

I'm sure we would have heard a lot about travel bans if that was the case. But when he is an American with no direct family ties to another country it isn't applicable.  And his motivation ( we think) isn't based on any religious or political ideology, he doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist. This looks like more of a suicide by cop scenario and he wanted to be noticed so he took out as many people as he could in the process. And it goes without saying there was some severe mental illness happening with the shooter.

No doubt, i'd like to know how exactly he procured the weapons because back in February Trump removed an Obama regulation to make it easier for the mentally ill to get weapons.

[tim_m]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

you actually sound like a republican voter. "you must call it Islamic terrorism!!!!"
 

I believe there is a technical definition of a terrorist attack. it is an attack done for political or religious reasons.

can this guy be referred to as a terrorist? sure, many people will refer to him that way. but in light of the global war we are fighting against "JV" ISIS and other Islamic groups, it's important to maintain those distinctions. 

All i am really trying to say is that is how i believe Trump would've acted if it weren't a white man or if he was a Muslim. I would hope i'm wrong but i doubt it.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

How do you not call a guy who did this a terrorist? Not trying to make assumptions on motive just saying if it was a Muslim he would've immediately said Islamic terrorism and been screaming about travel bans and you know its true.

I'm sure we would have heard a lot about travel bans if that was the case. But when he is an American with no direct family ties to another country it isn't applicable.  And his motivation ( we think) isn't based on any religious or political ideology, he doesn't really fit the definition of a terrorist. This looks like more of a suicide by cop scenario and he wanted to be noticed so he took out as many people as he could in the process. And it goes without saying there was some severe mental illness happening with the shooter.

No doubt, i'd like to know how exactly he procured the weapons because back in February Trump removed an Obama regulation to make it easier for the mentally ill to get weapons.

If you take the headline at face value you would wonder why Trump would even consider doing that.  But what are the specific details on this? Do all the mentally ill now have an easier time getting guns? Or just some of them? Big difference between a person who has bulimia VS extreme anger outbursts for example.