new material update...or lack there of

[Trash Panda]

If you never heard it before, it's new. Isn't that the definition of the word? Not new in the sense that it's fresh and they just wrote and recorded it the day before.

Most people never heard those songs before since they were released in August and September. And played live at the shows.

Hence, the use of the word new.




/jarmo

Imagine if we had the Internet back in the late 80's.... Don't Cry gets leaked and it doesn't end up on AFD but UYI. The hardcore fans would be saying the same thing with regards of today. 

No, because at the time Don't Cry would have been a few years old. And Axl likely would have recorded current vocals for the new record. These songs are TWENTY YEARS OLD with vocals recorded TWENTY YEARS AGO.

But yeah, same thing. Ha ha. laugh emoji.

Also, I got bootlegs of November Rain back then when it was just an acoustic song right after Appetite came out. And when it came out on Use Your Illusion, I was fucking thrilled, because it was an active band and I knew it was a song in progress. So, nothing you said is remotely true.

[PermissionToLand]

What you wrote doesn't make any sense. The songs on UYI weren't written 20 years earlier. The band had been writing so many songs over the past several years at that time, consistently writing, they turned them into 3.5 albums over the course of 4 years. How does that in any way compare to 1 album and a handful of singles in nearly 3 decades?? Why do people need to contort themselves to deny the obvious? A band that produced a single album in nearly 3 decades is not a creatively thriving band. Why is that so hard to admit? It's ok. You'll be alright. I am a huge Hunter S. Thompson fan. I have a tattoo of his six-fingered fist. But after the 70s and his first run of books, he was creatively shot and didn't produce a single thing worth a damn after that. Hardcore fans and critics alike agree pretty much universally. Admitting that doesn't mean I don't appreciate him as a writer. It just means I can look at reality. It's wild people on this board can't do the same.

Time tables stretch as bands get older. Even AC/DC, who pumped out an album every single year from 1974-1983 started slowing down in their 30s and 40s, stretching to once every 5 years by the 1990s.

[PermissionToLand]

That's exactly my point. Only a small percentage of people know those vocals are decades old. That's why it seems a little (dirty/disingenuous) to pass this off to the mainstream as a new song. Only in GnR land is there ambiguity about what is new music. It's like Clintonian logic on what's the definition of "new".

Where do you draw the line, though? As soon as you record a vocal, it's now a recording from the past. The average album is recorded, what, 6 months before it's released or so? AC/DC's latest album was recorded in 2018, but stalled for unknown reasons and then when they were gearing up, Covid hit, so it delayed further and ended up releasing two years after it was recorded. Nobody complained about that being "old performances". What if it were 4 years, though? At what point does it become unacceptable?

[DAVE ROCK]

What you wrote doesn't make any sense. The songs on UYI weren't written 20 years earlier. The band had been writing so many songs over the past several years at that time, consistently writing, they turned them into 3.5 albums over the course of 4 years. How does that in any way compare to 1 album and a handful of singles in nearly 3 decades?? Why do people need to contort themselves to deny the obvious? A band that produced a single album in nearly 3 decades is not a creatively thriving band. Why is that so hard to admit? It's ok. You'll be alright. I am a huge Hunter S. Thompson fan. I have a tattoo of his six-fingered fist. But after the 70s and his first run of books, he was creatively shot and didn't produce a single thing worth a damn after that. Hardcore fans and critics alike agree pretty much universally. Admitting that doesn't mean I don't appreciate him as a writer. It just means I can look at reality. It's wild people on this board can't do the same.

Time tables stretch as bands get older. Even AC/DC, who pumped out an album every single year from 1974-1983 started slowing down in their 30s and 40s, stretching to once every 5 years by the 1990s.

Since 1995 ACDC (who are older than Guns) have released 5 studio albums
Of course bands/musicians release slow down but they keep releasing and touring
Axl Rose has only released one album (with original music) in 30 Years. Of course he has been touring all these years, and that's great but creativitely speaking he has become a nostalgia act

[DAVE ROCK]

If you never heard it before, it's new. Isn't that the definition of the word? Not new in the sense that it's fresh and they just wrote and recorded it the day before.

Most people never heard those songs before since they were released in August and September. And played live at the shows.

Hence, the use of the word new.




/jarmo

Imagine if we had the Internet back in the late 80's.... Don't Cry gets leaked and it doesn't end up on AFD but UYI. The hardcore fans would be saying the same thing with regards of today.  

No, because at the time Don't Cry would have been a few years old. And Axl likely would have recorded current vocals for the new record. These songs are TWENTY YEARS OLD with vocals recorded TWENTY YEARS AGO.

But yeah, same thing. Ha ha. laugh emoji.

Also, I got bootlegs of November Rain back then when it was just an acoustic song right after Appetite came out. And when it came out on Use Your Illusion, I was fucking thrilled, because it was an active band and I knew it was a song in progress. So, nothing you said is remotely true.

Im with u Trash Panda. What you say is what most of GNR fans worldwide outside this kind of foros think about Guns N Roses and specially about Axl Rose. We all love him but its really frustratin' bein' a fan of him and expectin him to get back to write new music and blow our minds as he used to do back in the old good days. I thought he would take advantage of this chance with the reunion but after 6 years findin' out he didn't write or record anything new with Slash and Duff is dissapointing

[Trash Panda]

If you never heard it before, it's new. Isn't that the definition of the word? Not new in the sense that it's fresh and they just wrote and recorded it the day before.

Most people never heard those songs before since they were released in August and September. And played live at the shows.

Hence, the use of the word new.




/jarmo

Imagine if we had the Internet back in the late 80's.... Don't Cry gets leaked and it doesn't end up on AFD but UYI. The hardcore fans would be saying the same thing with regards of today.  

No, because at the time Don't Cry would have been a few years old. And Axl likely would have recorded current vocals for the new record. These songs are TWENTY YEARS OLD with vocals recorded TWENTY YEARS AGO.

But yeah, same thing. Ha ha. laugh emoji.

Also, I got bootlegs of November Rain back then when it was just an acoustic song right after Appetite came out. And when it came out on Use Your Illusion, I was fucking thrilled, because it was an active band and I knew it was a song in progress. So, nothing you said is remotely true.

Im with u Trash Panda. What you say is what most of GNR fans worldwide outside this kind of foros think about Guns N Roses and specially about Axl Rose. We all love him but its really frustratin' bein' a fan of him and expectin him to get back to write new music and blow our minds as he used to do back in the old good days. I thought he would take advantage of this chance with the reunion but after 6 years findin' out he didn't write or record anything new with Slash and Duff is dissapointing

That's really all it is: disappointment. We love the band. We love the music. We would love to hear new songs, new visions, new lyrics ... And for a fan, 1 album and a few singles over 30 years doesn't cut it. It's incredibly disappointing. That's all. Honestly, I think it's incredibly weird for a true fan not to be disappointed.

And before the regular attacks come: No, I don't think the band owes me anything. No, the lack of an album is not destroying my life. Etc, etc, etc.

[jarmo]

Here is my question take it from a GNR touring perspective. How many fans go to GNR shows now and are screaming for new songs?

Often the ones who want to change the setlist the most, and assume a new album would make huge changes in the setlist, are the ones who don't attend shows...






/jarmo

[COMAMOTIVE]

Here is my question take it from a GNR touring perspective. How many fans go to GNR shows now and are screaming for new songs? I can't help but think of Larry the Cable Guy in his most recent netflix stand up mentioned the joke of loving classic rock bands and the one thing those bands fans hate to hear is "and here is one off our new album". I think its fair to say alot of the fans that go too GNR shows are going to see the classics played i mean what is the crowd response when they play chinese democracy stuff and while i personally love hearing those songs there not ones fans know the words by heart like a sweet child or paradise city. Do i want new material of course absolutely but i think with a band like GNR with its history could easily be a Billy Joel esque touring band and just play hits and people will come out maybe mix in a new cover song or a hard skool but i think thats what we all have to think about.

I don't believe it has anything to do with that.
The idea of a new song - a collaborative effort by Axl - Slash - Duff etc is promise.
It's hope.
The idea that the guys who created possibly the greatest hard rock album in history have more to give.
Won't speak for anyone - just myself - but those songs and many on the Illusions were part of the soundtrack of this guy's life.
I want more and for some to drill people here for hoping for a little more over the last 6 years or so than 2 Chinese songs re-done is silly.


Personally don't like absurd but love Hard Skool - and hoped they were just the beginning of something bigger - but now it appears not.

Is what it is

[jarmo]

I guess the main difference is that to me, those two songs are new Guns N' Roses songs. And to others they're "Chinese Democracy leftovers that weren't good enough for the album, with Duff and Slash".

Like I said, I don't pay attention to when it was written, by who, who recorded it originally, what notes were left out in the final release etc. The only thing that matters is, do I like it. All that other stuff is just additional information, and it shouldn't decide whether or not I like the song.


Let's be honest, how many of you were clamoring for "new music" and now you're feeling let down.... Because the songs are bad? No, because it's new music (but not the new music you thought you never had coming in the first place).




/jarmo

[Gavgnr]

I can only speak for myself here, I’m just pissed that there’s no more on the immediate horizon 

Loved both tracks 

[jarmo]

Who knows? I don't know if there is.

All we know is that there's no more tour dates until summer 2022.


I like the way things were done earlier this year. Tour, play new song, release song.




/jarmo

[Trash Panda]

I guess the main difference is that to me, those two songs are new Guns N' Roses songs. And to others they're "Chinese Democracy leftovers that weren't good enough for the album, with Duff and Slash".

Like I said, I don't pay attention to when it was written, by who, who recorded it originally, what notes were left out in the final release etc. The only thing that matters is, do I like it. All that other stuff is just additional information, and it shouldn't decide whether or not I like the song.


Let's be honest, how many of you were clamoring for "new music" and now you're feeling let down.... Because the songs are bad? No, because it's new music (but not the new music you thought you never had coming in the first place).




/jarmo

That's super bizarre you don't care who wrote it, when it was written, etc. All of that informs a song, provides a context, an insight into the vision and a history to enhance your listening. So, when I have that history for these new songs, it doesn't necessarily impact whether I enjoy them. I think they are both average at best. But, it does inform me as to the creative viability of the band in present day, which appears to be zero.

[jarmo]

That's super bizarre you don't care who wrote it, when it was written, etc. All of that informs a song, provides a context, an insight into the vision and a history to enhance your listening. So, when I have that history for these new songs, it doesn't necessarily impact whether I enjoy them. I think they are both average at best. But, it does inform me as to the creative viability of the band in present day, which appears to be zero.

It's super bizarre that you take something out of what I said and twist it.

I merely said that information (which I care about), doesn't dictate whether or not a song is good. Read my post again.


Ever heard the expression "don't judge a book by its cover"? Same thing.





/jarmo

[Gavgnr]

Who knows? I don't know if there is.

All we know is that there's no more tour dates until summer 2022.


I like the way things were done earlier this year. Tour, play new song, release song.




/jarmo

I’ve made my peace with the fact that next summer is the earliest we *might* hear some new tracks. I too like the surprise drops during the tour 

[Eduardo]

I think people miss the point on this matter. It's not about how old the songs are. As I said, this band's history show that they've created songs and released them years later (Don't Cry, NR, etc.)

The point is that it SEEMS that they're not a full working force kind of band anymore. They don't sit together and write songs, compose, share ideas, etc. That's what bothers me and other people.

Some years ago the Stones, one of my favorite bands, released an special edition of Exile on Main Street. It had a lot of songs from that era that had never been released before. Those songs were clearly reworked, with new vocals by Mick, new guitar parts, etc., blended with some parts from the 70's (Nicky Hopkins piano, etc.)

Did I enjoy listening to new songs by the Stones, specially from that era? Hell yes! But it was not a new album, they didn't write new songs, they didn't sit down together in the studio to work.

That's the whole point. It feels like they're not a unity anymore.

[jarmo]

The thing is. They haven't necessarily worked like that in quite some time.

Before Appetite, they basically lived together. Then they all got their own places to live. So the Use Your Illusion songs weren't necessarily written "sitting together" either.

I think them creating something from scratch just by sitting together might be expecting too much. What I mean is, if Slash has a guitar riff he wrote a few years ago on tour, isn't that what you don't want?


What they did with Absurd and Hard Skool is basically the way they worked since Use Your Illusion. Someone brings in a song, or idea, then they add to it.

Think of a song like Estranged. It's a great song, but Slash's guitar melody elevates it even further. or Coma. Great, but with those lyrics, it's something else.






/jarmo

[Executioner]

I get  that a lot of the audiences that attend GnR gigs aren't clamouring for new material and wanna hear the classics  however I don't think many would object to hearing 3 or 4 new songs if they wanna throw them in, playing Absurd and Hard skool shows they are willing to take a risk and play new music.

[PermissionToLand]

Remember, they had Hard Skool on the alt setlist as early as 2019. So it's a bit disingenuous to say this is all they've done in 6 years, when the past two years were basically down the drain for everyone. They were gearing up to release HS after 4 years of almost nonstop touring. Who's to say what we may have had by now if not for covid interrupting?

[COMAMOTIVE]

I guess the main difference is that to me, those two songs are new Guns N' Roses songs. And to others they're "Chinese Democracy leftovers that weren't good enough for the album, with Duff and Slash".

/jarmo

Didn't say anything about them being not good enough for CD - and didn't mean to imply that either.

I think absurd is brutally bad the more I listen to it. Just not my thing. I actually liked the Silkworms intro and effects back then better than this part of the song -
Hard Skool is an excellent song - better than a few on CD in my opinion.

[Wooody]

It makes me wonder whether we will ever listen to new material.