Where's the Attitude!? The "edge"!? (Better, IRS)

[mrvics]

What's with the Family-Friendly lyrics?   In my opinion, these songs would be a lot more convincing if they used a little explicit language.  Especially IRS.  I love Axl's soft, love songs, no doubt, but where's the fuckin' attitude and conviction and "edge" in songs like IRS and Better!?  I'm not looking for another AFD, just a few "I dont give a fucks", "fuck yous" etc.

What do ya'll think?  Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?


V~

P.S.
Am I breaking any of the forum rules by using bad words? 

[jarmo]

P.S.
Am I breaking any of the forum rules by using bad words??

No fucking way.




/jarmo

[avesia]

Considering the fact that most of the songs are about Stephanie Seymour, yeah...some "fuck yous" would be fine 

[McDuff]

maybe Axl doesn't want to use those words on the songs when he will say them alot more when GN'R on on tour ?

[killingvector]

IRS is not about Steph.

[Poof!]

Actually, I think that an intelligent approach to expressing ones anger/disappointment at people who were once close to you is by far more appealing than "fuck yous". It allows one to dig deeper instead of that instant gratification/release of a cuss word. I'm sure Axl's not completely done with profanity, but he can't stay a pissed off 28 year old forever.

[zombux]

try Slipknot or Limp Bizkit if you want to hear "fuck" in every verse

[avesia]

IRS is not about Steph.

I said "most of them"...
...oh, and it was a joke 

[HoldenCaulfield]

I think Axl's matured a bit. I dunno. I think he can convey his feelings in better ways than just saying "hey bitch, fuck you!"...

[littlewing]

What do ya'll think?  Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?

I've always felt that swearing for the sake of swearing or being edgy is dumb.

[mrvics]

I think Axl's matured a bit. I dunno. I think he can convey his feelings in better ways than just saying "hey bitch, fuck you!"...

Yeah, I understand what you guys are saying and I agree.  But one of the things about Axl that I've always loved is his attitude. Just a little, ya know?  Like in Better where he says, "We played the part, you broke my heart, I should've known you're crazy."  He could've slipped a "I should've known you're fuckin crazy".  That isn't unintelligent, just passionate.  Make sense? 

By the way, Better is really one of the BEST SONGS I've heard in a very, very long time.  I'm in love with this damn song!  It's complexity and emotion is brilliant! 

V~

P.S.
I tried posting this same topic, almost identical, at mygnr.com, which i'm a regular at, and it was never posted. Can't figure out why. Weird.  I tried three times.  That's why I asked if me saying "fuck" would be breaking some rules.  So for some reason I feel like thanking you for allowing me to post this.  Sounds ridiculous, right?  Yeah.   

[estebanf]

What's with the Family-Friendly lyrics?? ?In my opinion, these songs would be a lot more convincing if they used a little explicit language.? Especially IRS.? I love Axl's soft, love songs, no doubt, but where's the fuckin' attitude and conviction and "edge" in songs like IRS and Better!?? I'm not looking for another AFD, just a few "I dont give a fucks", "fuck yous" etc.

What do ya'll think?? Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?

I think you're forgeting Chinese Democracy, that track has tons of attitude.
...and it has the word ''masturbation'' ?

[Acquiesce]

A song can have attitude without swearing.

[axlsalinger]

"Rhiad and the Bedouins
 Had a plan and thought they'd win
 But I don't give a fuck 'bout them
 Cause I am crazy"

[Eclipsed107]

Axl isn't 20 anymore, there's no need for him to act like it.

Plus saying fuck in a song isn't badass anymore, it's come to the point where if you do it too much it's quite lame.

[mrvics]

A song can have attitude without swearing.

I agree.  I guess I really don't want to see Axl's work evolve into all about forgiving, compassion, tolerance, etc.  Those things are great and I want to hear some songs that are all about that but, I mean, I'm all for therapy and working through personal issues in a healthy manner, but sometimes I just want to rock out! And sometimes, especially when I'm running, I want to feel selfish and want some music that will help me get some aggressions out.  For example, I have this live performance of Paradise City where Axl's really pissed and he threw in a "BITCH" after a verse.  That quick "BITCH" made me believe he had someone in mind and also helped me keep someone in mind while I ran, worked out, rode my motorcycle or whatever, and I could literally feel adrenaline kick in, simply because of the passion that Axl communicated through some simple lyrics.

...

...ok, I'm crazy.


V~

[Megaguns]

They dont need to swear, That part in better: i never wanted you to be so full of anger...etc
thats fukin evil

[mrvics]

They dont need to swear, That part in better: i never wanted you to be so full of anger...etc
thats fukin evil

You're right.  It is.  That's one of my favorite parts of that song.  Brilliant!!!

[axls#2]

Don't forget silkworms! ?If you like edgy profanity. check that one out. ?
 
Actually I do tend to agree with mrvics, but we have only heard three new songs so far. ?There could be some more profanity on some of the other tracks, but I don't think that profanity would have fit in "better". It would sound really obviously gratuitous. ?? It wouldn't have flowed in the spot that you suggested.? If he would have sang " I should have known you're fucking crazy," i think it would have sounded a little awkward.? Because at the rate the vocals were going and such, it would? have probably thrown the rest of the song off.?

But I think that when axl includes profanity, he does it wisely to illustrate just how extremely pissed he is or else it actually makes the lyrical flow smoother, like in out ta get me the first time he sings, "i got somethin i've been building up insiiiiiiide for so fucking loooooonnnng". ? It just fits in that song and would sound kinda weird if he sang "i got somethin i've been building up inside for so..... loooooonnnng, it would have sounded lame, and that is why I think he is one of the best for knowing when and when not to use profanity.? And that what makes him such a bad ass.? ?Axl seems to write the lyrics first and if it needs cursing he will add it, while tools like limp bizkit will write a song called fuck and will abuse it to prove how bad they are, but it actually proves how dumb they are when that is the most common word on the song.?

[Ineverlearn000022]

..."I didn't buy that 5th of whiskey that you gave me!"....So you can suck me...take that one to heart.

[mrvics]

Don't forget silkworms!  If you like edgy profanity. check that one out. 

Actually I do tend to agree with mrvics, but we have only heard three new songs so far.  There could be some more profanity on some of the other tracks, but I don't think that profanity would have fit in "better".  Had he used it I think it would have sounded forced.   It wouldn't have flowed in the spot that you suggested.  If he would have sang " I should have known you're fucking crazy," i think it would have sounded a little awkward.  Because at the rate the vocals were going and such, if he would've probably thrown the rest of the song off.

But I think that when axl includes profanity, he does it wisely to illustrate just how extremely pissed or else it actually makes the lyrical flow smoother, like in out ta get me the first time he says, "i got somethin i've been building up inside for so fuckiiing long".   It just fits in that song and would sound kinda weird if he sang i got somethin i've been building up inside for so loooooong, it would have sounded lame, and that is why I think he is one of the best for knowing when and when not to use profanity.

Good points. 

[GunnerRose]

Axl is 44 years old and lives in a Mansion. You can only be so pissed off.

[neon2002]

What's with the Family-Friendly lyrics?? ?In my opinion, these songs would be a lot more convincing if they used a little explicit language.? Especially IRS.? I love Axl's soft, love songs, no doubt, but where's the fuckin' attitude and conviction and "edge" in songs like IRS and Better!?? I'm not looking for another AFD, just a few "I dont give a fucks", "fuck yous" etc.

What do ya'll think?? Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?


V~

P.S.
Am I breaking any of the forum rules by using bad words??

Now that I've heard the Full Version of "Better" I'd have to say that there's quite a lot of Edge to it - Without the need for swearing.

[JB9988]

Dude you dont need fucks shits fuck yous whore bitch to have a good songs. SCOM did have a fuck you  nor did wttj or pc and they were all kick ass songs.

[tHeElEcTrIcSiNtAr]

There is tons of attitude in Better. The heavy part has wicked attitude. IRS has some attitude, not as much as Better though.

[RichardNixon]

better is full of balls

[JB9988]

Yea better kicks its such a good song!

[godiva]

Till this post I never even thought about the absence of swear words and not for one second have I missed 'attitude' or 'edge'. I think Axl channelled his anger in another way. These songs kick ass, using swear words wouldn't really add or substract anything in them. I think there will be lots of songs with swear words on CD to satisfy that need. Hey, maybe if the leaks were intentional, it was decided to leak those without foul language so more radio stations would play it.....  I'm just kidding here.....

[younggunner]

I think Axl is expressing his edge and profanity in the type of songs and direction there going rather than actually saying it on a particular song.....Better has balls and an edge dont you think?

[tp4ever84]

Axl never used profanity to much just thrown in everyonce in awhile in the middle of song on the verse usually. 

[Buddha_Master]

I am going to agree with the Thread starter. Appetite was masterful not just because of its awesome music...but because of its extreme honesty. That was something missing from music then. Honesty. That is missing from much of todays music too.

Whether one can say something without droping the Fuck bomb, it is how people talk. Now saying that, I actually think a lot of the language on the UYI's was forced. Appetite was real, and the lyrics were as fucking real as it gets. So I think they had to try and maintain the Fuck you attitude. But it was forced, and didnt seem as natural in places.

We have only heard a few tracks now. TWAT would be very innapropriate for the fucking attitude, but I think IRS is. It helps emphasize you rage, and Axl does seem a little pissed with his pissed off Axl voice (which is always fucking cool).

A good old screaming fuck might be cool.

[Walk]

No fucking way.
/jarmo

 

Bad words are fine, but they're overdone by most bands. Black metal bands tend to be more subtle and sneaky with their blasphemy, and death metal bands actually prefer to use accurate medical terminology. Single syllable curse words don't have the same impact as HEMORRHAGE EJACULATION DEFECATION!!!!!!!     

I think most songs work better without curse words because the words themselves aren't expressive and are overused. They're used in rap as placeholder words, and their purpose in rock is very limited. Axl isn't a punk. He can do without excessive swearing.

[ppbebe]

Don't forget silkworms!  If you like edgy profanity. check that one out. 
 

You beat me.

Anyone can swear. Maybe it was edgy in the AFD era but not anymore.
like ARV's favourite words "oh fuck!"

[SLCPUNK]

What do ya'll think?  Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?


 

Why should you have to cuss to get your point across or make it a killer song?

If you have to saturate a song with the F bomb then you don't have strong material IMO.

The F word used correctly is very effective in getting its point across. But the F word used over and over again loses that effect.

[the dirt]

The F word used correctly is very effective in getting its point across. But the F word used over and over again loses that effect.

Hm, reminds me of that offspring song, the driving one off of Smash.

[ARC]

... well, Axl isn't 25 anymore.

I'm guessing he's realised that if you swear constantly you're seen as pretty dumb.

[Dont Try Me]

... well, Axl isn't 25 anymore.

I'm guessing he's realised that if you swear constantly you're seen as pretty dumb.

depends on what clothes you give round the swear words. He combines intelectual words with swear words in logical smart sentences with here and there a funny reference. He gets away with it cause he ain't no dumb motha 

[Axlfreek]

i think considering that he was callin her a twat metaphorically in there was a time, i think thats explicit enough for me. otherwise i don't mind it at all.

[SLCPUNK]

The F word used correctly is very effective in getting its point across. But the F word used over and over again loses that effect.

Hm, reminds me of that offspring song, the driving one off of Smash.

I am not familar with that song......

[the dirt]

I am not familar with that song......

It's called "bad habit". Pretentious.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

better is full of balls

I totally agree and I disagree with the curse words...you don't need curse words for the song to have attitude.

[plasmabeam]

I think Axl's matured a bit. I dunno. I think he can convey his feelings in better ways than just saying "hey bitch, fuck you!"...

My thoughts exactly. Words like "fuck" are often used in songs when someone can't think of anything better to say. Axl's had plenty of time to contruct the lyrics, so he put together songs without many expletives.

And don't forget that we've only heard a few songs. There's a good chance that we'll see profanity soaked lyrics on the album.

[mrvics]

What do ya'll think?  Would these songs be a litte more effective with some adult language?


 

Why should you have to cuss to get your point across or make it a killer song?

If you have to saturate a song with the F bomb then you don't have strong material IMO.

The F word used correctly is very effective in getting its point across. But the F word used over and over again loses that effect.

I'm not saying songs should be saturated with the F word.  Just one or two times might be affective.   For example, in Paradise City where he says, "Are you FUCKING blind!?"  is more affective than "are you blind!?"   Just one or two, is all I'm saying.  Especially in IRS.  I feel that Axl is saying in that song that there's nothing left for him to do....last resort....frustration, yet the lyrics seem too nice.    Better does have a little edge to it, especially in the middle with Axl's screams.

V~

[StoneTempleRoses]

Im sure live IRS will go something like this:

Gonna call the president
gonna call a private eye
gonna need the IRS
gonna get the fuckin FBI
ect.

Ive been singing it like that for awhile anyway 

StoneTempleRoses

[mrvics]

Im sure live IRS will go something like this:

Gonna call the president
gonna call a private eye
gonna need the IRS
gonna get the fuckin FBI
ect.

Ive been singing it like that for awhile anyway 

StoneTempleRoses

That's what I'm talkin about!

[Buddha_Master]

and mrvics kind of proves it right there. That already sounds cool. Gonna get the motherfuckin FBI.

Anyway, I know a lot of rich upscale upperclass from my work here, and from family, and everyone says fuck. Its not a dumb person thing to say at all. Its just a good adjective that has worked its way into our language. It really should be in the dictionary as it is maybe the greatest word ever. No other word can mean so many different things.

And let me tell you fuckers. No one says the word "Fuck" cooler then Axl. No one. I agree...I would like some fucking attitude on Chinese Democracy right along side the works of art like TWAT.

[1badapple]

axl's intelligent enough that he doesn't need to use a bunch of profanity to get his point across.

[VRslash]

a few fuck yous would be nice. but now a days us teenagers like to here the coolest thing are parents dont want us listening to. so fucks cunts bitchs are kind of what we want to hear. but i hope axl hasnt got all seriuse with his lyric's. i hate music like that. its got to have some balls

[Buddha_Master]

axl's intelligent enough that he doesn't need to use a bunch of profanity to get his point across.

And my point is, is that the most intelligent successful people do say the word fuck when they talk and tell stories. Saying the word fuck, doesn't mean you are not intelligent.

[DOASHK]

They dont need to swear, That part in better: i never wanted you to be so full of anger...etc
thats fukin evil

that line is lame and cheasy

[greekmule]

the answer is simple.the ''edge'' is in 3:35-3:40 of the ?6:43 twat version. ?

[Megaguns]

They dont need to swear, That part in better: i never wanted you to be so full of anger...etc
thats fukin evil

that line is lame and cheasy

is it? well... my humble apology.......   

[Sakib]

Does it matter? Maybe when he wrote down the lyrics, he could've written them as they came to his mind and if there's no explicit language, the lyrics that came to his head (or whoever wrote the songs) may have not necessarily had explicit words in.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

curse words dont make a song edgy alone, its all about the context

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

axl is like 44 years old.
let him grow up.

attitude > better at 2:50

[Dave_Rose]

Who cares if Axl doesn't fuck on the album seriously, the lyrics are good as they are we dont need the word hear the word fuck to give some on the edge and to sell albums!

[BluesGNR]

axl's intelligent enough that he doesn't need to use a bunch of profanity to get his point across.

Yeah, I agree.  For some listeners, however, its easier to understand the conveyed emotion if there is a catchword like "fuck" or "shit."  It requires less cognitive ability to understand the message.  I'm indifferent, as long as it is appropriate and fits the song.

[88 Days]

uh, first of all you've heard 3 demos.
second, the attitude in better is cool as hell, listen to the middle part, that's classic axl rose right there.
third, duplicating appetite is something a wash-up would do. axl's the last great non-washed-up rock god, believe me, he'll deliver.

[BluesGNR]

uh, first of all you've heard 3 demos.
second, the attitude in better is cool as hell, listen to the middle part, that's classic axl rose right there.
third, duplicating appetite is something a wash-up would do. axl's the last great non-washed-up rock god, believe me, he'll deliver.

Well put.  It'd be a cold day in hell when Axl releases something of mediocre quality just to quiet the media and/or the fans.  He'll put it out when he's ready and, when he's ready, it will be awesome.  Lets not worry ourselves in the meantime.