Belo Horizonte, MG, Brazil, March 22, 2014 updates

[Ali]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:
[/quote]
Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

[Dok]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali
[/quote]

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.

[Ali]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.
[/quote]
You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali

[axlrosegnr]

So let me get this straight.... Some of you are claiming Axl's voice is shot because of a clip of November Rain that you saw? But people who were at the shows said he sounded fine? And he sounds just fine in the numerous other clips from said shows? Because obviously one section of one song represents the entire show/tour right? Because there's no way one of a million things could've happened to simply throw his voice off for a second right?

Please, go outside or something....

[D-GenerationX]

So let me get this straight.... Some of you are claiming Axl's voice is shot because of a clip of November Rain that you saw? But people who were at the shows said he sounded fine? And he sounds just fine in the numerous other clips from said shows? Because obviously one section of one song represents the entire show/tour right? Because there's no way one of a million things could've happened to simply throw his voice off for a second right?

Please, go outside or something....

How about this?

I produced a clip you don't like.  Clearly, it should be dismissed as its only one clip.  Very well.

Please produce another clip that not only refutes what I say, but proves what you say.

I'll even hold off on going outside until we can straighten this out.  Deal?

[jarmo]

- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am

Didn't say I was right. Just posting my opinion, just like you. But unlike you, I was at the show.
Your obsession with me is flattering though.

I don't review shows by watching Youtube clips.



/jarmo

[Dok]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali
[/quote]

I don't need to work on my reading comprehension skills, Einstein. I only don't feel the need argue with you over four or five pages over the assumptions you make in order to excuse why Axl sounds like shit. It could very well be that Axl practices proper breathing techniques until hell freezes over. It could very well be that he's sounding like a beaten dog because he does not practice at all, is out of shape and generally gives a fuck because he is surrounded with yes-men who fail to give him a proper kick in the ass. So what we're talking about is nothing but guesses...you guess, I guess. What we see however is no guessing. It's the same show we've been seeing for ages by now with an Axl who sounds and looks nothing like his old self.

[D-GenerationX]

Q : Shame they didn't play any new songs.  Do you think they will on later dates?

A : You weren't there.  You were on your computer.

Q : How did Axl sound?  Some of the first clips I saw sounded rough.

A : The people in the crowd were singing along, having fun.  Who are you to judge them?

Do you see the disconnect here?  Neither of these answers have anything to do with the questions being asked.

[NCrazy]

.  Mick Jagger? Seriously? He is so thin he looks like walking death- his body type is totally different than Axl's- he is an extreme Ectomorph- born like that- not an excuse - just fact- cardio comes very ez for that body type- but that r notoriously energetic despite whatever their lifestyle - that' why they usually stay so thin- they literally never stop moving not to mention I think AXL has a few more power vocals in His singing technically speaking

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali
[/quote]

[Dok]

- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am

Didn't say I was right. Just posting my opinion, just like you. But unlike you, I was at the show.
Your obsession with me is flattering though.

I don't review shows by watching Youtube clips.



/jarmo

What you're saying is basically that people who are not going to see the artist play live are not entitled to an opinion. Taking that logic a little further means that you are not allowed to be a fan of any band you've not seen live yet because it's impossible to judge the performance without attending a show. Dude, come on...you live in western Europe...you cannot be so 1984, can you?

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

[D-GenerationX]

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

Does anyone ever hear the same arguments about other bands on Youtube GNR fans try and give each other?  I'm seriously asking.

If someone sends you a link to a singer or band, is your first instinct not to see how it sounds?  Or do you start researching the acoustics of the building?  Running down the specs on the phone used?  Questioning the make of the microphone?

How can people not see that for what it is?

[ignaliza]

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

Does anyone ever hear the same arguments about other bands on Youtube GNR fans try and give each other?  I'm seriously asking.

If someone sends you a link to a singer or band, is your first instinct not to see how it sounds?  Or do you start researching the acoustics of the building?  Running down the specs on the phone used?  Questioning the make of the microphone?

How can people not see that for what it is?

Even if you see youtube videos from London 2012 and then watch the 1080p Livebeats version Axl's voice is the same, the same happens with Bridge School stream and audience videos, I dont know why people can't have an opinion here, only opinions that say "this is perfect, this is amazing, good show, Axl sounded perfect, amazing setlist, people where having fun" are accepted, and if you say something else, there's always an excuse, GnR is my favourite band and criticizing and having a different opinion is not hating or trolling.

PS: sorry for my bad english.

[D-GenerationX]

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

Does anyone ever hear the same arguments about other bands on Youtube GNR fans try and give each other?  I'm seriously asking.

If someone sends you a link to a singer or band, is your first instinct not to see how it sounds?  Or do you start researching the acoustics of the building?  Running down the specs on the phone used?  Questioning the make of the microphone?

How can people not see that for what it is?

Even if you see youtube videos from London 2012 and then watch the 1080p Livebeats version Axl's voice is the same, the same happens with Bridge School stream and audience videos, I dont know why people can't have an opinion here, only opinions that say "this is perfect, this is amazing, good show, Axl sounded perfect, amazing setlist, people where having fun" are accepted, and if you say something else, there's always an excuse, GnR is my favourite band and criticizing and having a different opinion is not hating or trolling.

PS: sorry for my bad english.

It reads just fine.  And I agree with you. 

No one is saying don't say when things are good.  But if something is bad, you can say that too.  Don't need to start spinning the Wheel Of Excuses.

[Ja5oN]

I've got three tickets for three nights in Vegas and a clip of misplayed ending to NR doesn't have me trying to return anything.

Can't wait till Vegas!

[D-GenerationX]

I've got three tickets for three nights in Vegas and a clip of misplayed ending to NR doesn't have me trying to return anything.

Can't wait till Vegas!

You really catch Axl's mic?  That's pretty cool.

Were people ripping and clawing at you?

[Ja5oN]

No it went right in my hand.  I don't think most people could even see through the confetti.  I let people hold it outside after.  I want a whistle to complete the set now (dreaming big).

[D-GenerationX]

No it went right in my hand.  I don't think most people could even see through the confetti.  I let people hold it outside after.  I want a whistle to complete the set now (dreaming big).

Hahahahaha.  That's awesome.

I never would have let anyone hold it though.

[Ali]

In shape how?  Vocally?  Sure.  But, to be fair, I'd be willing to bet his voice tends to get stronger and stronger the more they play shows.

As far as physical shape.  Again, sure.  But, I personally don't buy that has a strong effect on his vocals.  If he practices proper diaphragmatic breathing, I believe he can get enough breath support for his voice.

Ali

I think he wouldn't be slightly winded all the time if his cardio conditioning was a little higher. That's not a totally new problem, but I'm pretty sure everyone has noticed that when he stands still, he sings a lot better.

I know what your saying, but I think that goes back to sufficient breath support.  I don't think Axl gets as much air in as he could or should, that's why when he's moving around his breath support becomes noticeably less.  In turn, as he is running out of air towards the end of a phrase, his voice becomes raspier because his vocal chords are actually creating friction creating that raspy tone.

Ali

To be fair, some of the things that he does (or used to do) live, in terms of running around, are probably things that wouldn't be recommended for any singer. Sprinting doesn't mix with a vocal style that's fairly athletic from the get-go. Personally, I think he's got plenty of presence without the running around, so maybe cool it on that. Whatever. But, while I know the Bruce Dickinson thing comes up a lot,  Axl could really take a page from that level of physical training.

I hear what you're saying.  I've seen Maiden several times on tour and have several live albums of theirs.  Honestly, it is not like Bruce doesn't clip phrases short or insert breaths into lines and break up phrases that were not like that on the studio version.  He isn't immune to the effects of trying to move around while singing either.  It impacts your breath support no matter what.

Ali

Absolutely. It's a bad idea for a singer to run around. You kids and your rock music. :smh:

Agreed.  It has an impact no matter what.

It's more problematic when you sing as high as Axl does, using primarily the upper part of his range via his head voice.  The higher you sing, the more air you push out.

Ali

So what? That's nothing but excuses. Look at Mick Jagger. At 70 he easily (!) outruns Axl in terms of fitness, voice and stage presence. Okay, I understand that at 50 Axl is not performing the songs like he did 20 years ago but what he is doing now is just dragging the whole thing into the dirt. Deep and deeper with each new leg of the never ending Chinese Democrac tour.

I see people defending this crapfest with arguments like:

- he's using a different breathing technique
- he still tries to run around which is not good for the performance
- he is in shape
- I'm Jarmo, look at how right I am
- the band plays the music just perfect/ they are so tight
- people at the shows are having a great time
- its just a youtube video take with a crappy phone

And so on and so on...
Not one of those excuses is valid in my book as long as you charge people money for it. Whoever claims that Axls recent perfomances are 'great' or 'fun' or anything lacks some serious taste in music.

You need to work on your reading comprehension skills because you do not understand at all what the last bit of discussion was about.

IMO, Axl does not practice proper breathing technique and never has, and that is to his detriment as a singer.  Running around while you're trying to sing works against EVERY singer.  That is an observation and again, it is something that works against Axl.  If anything, you can view it as a criticism because his breath support may improve if he changed these two things.

Ali

I don't need to work on my reading comprehension skills, Einstein. I only don't feel the need argue with you over four or five pages over the assumptions you make in order to excuse why Axl sounds like shit. It could very well be that Axl practices proper breathing techniques until hell freezes over. It could very well be that he's sounding like a beaten dog because he does not practice at all, is out of shape and generally gives a fuck because he is surrounded with yes-men who fail to give him a proper kick in the ass. So what we're talking about is nothing but guesses...you guess, I guess. What we see however is no guessing. It's the same show we've been seeing for ages by now with an Axl who sounds and looks nothing like his old self.
[/quote]

You're not still not understanding at all what I said.  You're even mistaken in the context in which these are being brought up.  These are not a "now" issue, they are issues that has been present his entire career and have ALWAYS adversely affected him.

Ali

[jarmo]

What you're saying is basically that people who are not going to see the artist play live are not entitled to an opinion.

Now WHERE did I say that? Show me the quote!
Before you go further, show me the quote where I said that.

Taking that logic a little further means that you are not allowed to be a fan of any band you've not seen live yet because it's impossible to judge the performance without attending a show. Dude, come on...you live in western Europe...you cannot be so 1984, can you?

That's your logic, not mine.
So keep arguing with yourself.

Btw: What about those people who enjoy clips of their favorite bands on youtube? Ever thought about the performance being garbage instead of giving youtube the fault for poor quality streaming?

I enjoy watching things on Youtube as much as the next guy. But I don't post show reviews based on them acting like I was there.
Does that mean I'm saying you shouldn't watch Youtube videos and if you do you're not a fan?

What does it all mean? What did I say? Did I say it, or didn't I? You tell me.

According to some, my opinion isn't valid because I was there. Opinions based on Youtube clips are more valid.
Funny.

I've had too many coffees today. Or maybe I didn't. Maybe that's what I meant.



/jarmo

[Princess Leia]

I watched a full chip of SCOM from Rio. I didn?t hear Axl at all, not a single word. Was there sound problems?  I heard other clips that Ron?s wife posted from Bello Horizonte. Axl didn?t sound good, for example in RQ and NR. He did sounded decent in Patience.

 Indianapolis 2011,that one was great. I watched it the full show on youtube. But others may think something different. It?s a matter of personal taste, prefferences and opinions.

I like Oklahoma 92 a lot more than Tokio 92. I like Philly 88 and Melbourne 88 a lot more than The Ritz

What?s wrong with that?