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I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Topic: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up (Read 4760 times)
Carlos Gunner
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I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
«
on:
December 01, 2022, 05:45:53 PM »
I do not like how the last GN'R lineup is integrated, regardless of Axl, Duff, and Slash being part of it.
It feels like a mix of classical GN'R with studio musicians, I do not feel what they do, but I liked Chinese Democracy.
There is no art designed for the rest of the band in 6 to 7 years, it has always been about original Gunners, which says a lot.
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(t)
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #1 on:
December 01, 2022, 06:24:41 PM »
I do kinda wonder how the rest of the band feels about being left out of all the promo art, especially Dizzy as he's been in the band for 30+ years now.
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cineater
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #2 on:
December 03, 2022, 09:34:34 AM »
That's the fans fault. They kind of refuse to recognize anybody but their heroes.
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GNR4LIFEJD
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #3 on:
December 03, 2022, 10:09:21 AM »
Not that i like to let social media drive things but if you ever see on different facebook chats ill see all the time oh its not GNR cuz there is no Izzy or Steven. I am a huge fan of richard i think he has been a great addition for all the years he has been in GNR but the fair weather fan is gonna typically acknowledge the OG's like Axl, Slash & Duff good, bad or indifferent when you have a band that has been as big as GNR especially those first 3 albums AFD, Lies & Illusion Albums that is the Golden Age of GNR and what older fans hold onto despite how long some of the newer players have been in like Fortus, Frank and even Melissa now. Not that i wanna start another debate about having new material out but this is also a negative of not having alot of new material where you can attribute the new men/woman into the band and there contributions.
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Carlos Gunner
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #4 on:
December 03, 2022, 02:41:13 PM »
Quote from: (t) on December 01, 2022, 06:24:41 PM
I do kinda wonder how the rest of the band feels about being left out of all the promo art, especially Dizzy as he's been in the band for 30+ years now.
I think he feels overshadowed by Axl, and now Duff and Slash, but he decides to remain in the band anyways, he does not seem to have a strong voice in GN'R.
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Carlos Gunner
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #5 on:
December 03, 2022, 02:48:29 PM »
Quote from: cineater on December 03, 2022, 09:34:34 AM
That's the fans fault. They kind of refuse to recognize anybody but their heroes.
Richard, Frank, Melissa, and even Dizzy have not reached the status of original gunners.
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Carlos Gunner
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #6 on:
December 03, 2022, 02:51:16 PM »
Quote from: GNR4LIFEJD on December 03, 2022, 10:09:21 AM
Not that i like to let social media drive things but if you ever see on different facebook chats ill see all the time oh its not GNR cuz there is no Izzy or Steven. I am a huge fan of richard i think he has been a great addition for all the years he has been in GNR but the fair weather fan is gonna typically acknowledge the OG's like Axl, Slash & Duff good, bad or indifferent when you have a band that has been as big as GNR especially those first 3 albums AFD, Lies & Illusion Albums that is the Golden Age of GNR and what older fans hold onto despite how long some of the newer players have been in like Fortus, Frank and even Melissa now. Not that i wanna start another debate about having new material out but this is also a negative of not having alot of new material where you can attribute the new men/woman into the band and there contributions.
True, we do not know much about how the contribution of Richard and the rest of the non-original Gunners would be, due to a lack of original material with them playing in it.
I respect that you admire Richard.
Cheers!
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D-GenerationX
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
«
Reply #7 on:
December 05, 2022, 04:11:08 PM »
Quote from: cineater on December 03, 2022, 09:34:34 AM
That's the fans fault. They kind of refuse to recognize anybody but their heroes.
Axl did not lift a finger to make any of the new band more accepted.
Something like he was trying to do, relaunch an iconic band with a line-up of strangers, was going to take real yeoman work on the publicity front.
Axl could never be bothered. He never took the time to put these guys over with the general public.
Would it still have flopped? Honestly, big picture, yeah. There would always be a
"that's not Guns N' Roses"
sentiment from longer time fans. But he might have cultivated some honest to god new fans of his new line-up...but that was going to take some effort on his part.
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jarmo
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #8 on:
December 05, 2022, 06:32:14 PM »
They toured the world for years. Saying they did nothing is just plain wrong.
The difference is that there wasn't one line up. It changed multiple times between 2000 and 2014.
/jarmo
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D-GenerationX
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #9 on:
December 05, 2022, 07:02:28 PM »
Quote from: jarmo on December 05, 2022, 06:32:14 PM
They toured the world for years. Saying they did nothing is just plain wrong.
The difference is that there wasn't one line up. It changed multiple times between 2000 and 2014.
What publicity did he ever do that talked about his new band, included his new bandmates along side of him, put over how great they were?
He didn't. Bottom line.
This was going to take some real heavy lifting to give these guys the best chance to be accepted. He didn't want to grab his end of the couch.
His call. But we can't just make shit up about how much time and effort he allegedly put towards that goal when he simply did not.
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jarmo
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #10 on:
December 05, 2022, 10:31:32 PM »
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 05, 2022, 07:02:28 PM
What publicity did he ever do that talked about his new band, included his new bandmates along side of him, put over how great they were?
He didn't. Bottom line.
This was going to take some real heavy lifting to give these guys the best chance to be accepted. He didn't want to grab his end of the couch.
His call. But we can't just make shit up about how much time and effort he allegedly put towards that goal when he simply did not.
What exactly were you expecting him to do? When he had people like you against him. We know you think you're always right. Why would he bother trying to change your mind with interviews? They played shows. You could buy a ticket and either enjoy it for what it was, or don't. Many of us did.
No interview in the world could've change the fact that some didn't accept the band as GN'R. Simple as that.
/jarmo
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
«
Reply #11 on:
December 12, 2022, 11:53:01 PM »
Quote from: (t) on December 01, 2022, 06:24:41 PM
I do kinda wonder how the rest of the band feels about being left out of all the promo art, especially Dizzy as he's been in the band for 30+ years now.
I doubt they care. They get paid huge dollars to stay on the GNR payroll AND they get to be musicians full time, something most musicians can only dream of. I doubt they're petty enough to care much about being in photos. They know the original members draw the fans, which benefits them as well, since their jobs are going to be extended as long as fans keep buying tickets.
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cineater
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #12 on:
December 13, 2022, 12:23:19 AM »
Quote from: jarmo on December 05, 2022, 10:31:32 PM
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 05, 2022, 07:02:28 PM
What publicity did he ever do that talked about his new band, included his new bandmates along side of him, put over how great they were?
He didn't. Bottom line.
This was going to take some real heavy lifting to give these guys the best chance to be accepted. He didn't want to grab his end of the couch.
His call. But we can't just make shit up about how much time and effort he allegedly put towards that goal when he simply did not.
What exactly were you expecting him to do? When he had people like you against him. We know you think you're always right. Why would he bother trying to change your mind with interviews? They played shows. You could buy a ticket and either enjoy it for what it was, or don't. Many of us did.
No interview in the world could've change the fact that some didn't accept the band as GN'R. Simple as that.
/jarmo
Maybe Axl didn't do anything to promo them but he didn't stop them. Those guys were all over the place. The shit they were up too.
They were out doing interviews, running websites and the behind the scenes shit, omg. The only quite one was Bucket, weirdness all unto himself. Miss those guys.
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GNR4L
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #13 on:
December 14, 2022, 02:35:48 AM »
I think both Dizzy, Richard, Frank, Melissa. know the magintude of having Slash & Duff being back in the band, where it doesn't really bother them. Axl has been loyal as you can see with Richard and Frank still being in the band ( which i'm glad they're). Being that this is also a business... it made sense having Axl, Slash, Duff in the promo's... that's just obvious. I think this is probably the best lineup since the original AFD days, plus I still think there's new music, plus an album on the way.
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #14 on:
December 14, 2022, 03:19:12 PM »
The main "problem" is that GNR is really one of the few band in which every single member was recognizable, because of the appearance and the sound (the beatles, queen...i mean those kind of bands in which if u change 1 guy, everything changes). So when u change all the guys but one it's a problem cause literally nobody consider the new band as "gnr", as i said many times. It was seen as the Axl Rose thing, and actually he acted like it was his thing: he never lost a chance to show us he didn't care about what he was doing with the other guys (the delays of CD, the going late on stage, the perpetual changin line ups, 0 interviews, nobody really knew what was going on...). I never felt them as a "band" . So When you have again 2 guys of the old line up with their preminent appearance and sound you know people will consider that group of people a real band. It's something u can't change, it is what it is.
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D-GenerationX
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #15 on:
December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM »
Quote from: jarmo on December 05, 2022, 10:31:32 PM
What exactly were you expecting him to do?
Rolling Stone puts him on the cover the second he asks. As would any other number of major magazines. Are you arguing he was willing to do so and they passed? Doubtful.
He was attempting to sell a completely new line-up of an iconic band. It was going to be hard, real hard. Was going to take real effort.
So you lean into that. You do an interview either with everyone as a band, or one that is just you, but you talk about your new band. How great they are. How much you are enjoying playing with them. Encouraging fans, both fans of the old band and new fans seeing them for the first time, to give them a shot. How they will like what they hear.
In short, you focus on the here and now and the future.
Or...you take to random internet fan forums right after the album comes out and talk about a guy that hasn't been in your band for 13 years at that point. And describe him as
"a cancer, best removed".
What a brilliant promotional strategy. Really gives your new enterprise its best shot at success.
Quote
When he had people like you against him. We know you think you're always right. Why would he bother trying to change your mind with interviews? They played shows. You could buy a ticket and either enjoy it for what it was, or don't. Many of us did.
I bought tickets for that incarnation of the band twice. Once, Axl no show up (Philly 2002). Once, he did (Camden 2011). I enjoyed the one I show I got.
I tracked down every leak that I could in real time to satiate my hunger for new material. Some, in ridiculous forms. I listed to that 40 second clip of 'I.R.S.' that floated around, in all but unlistenable quality, because that's all I had. I played that shit on a loop.
I physically traveled to Best Buy on 11/23/08, whne they oepned their doors, to get the new CD. Yes, a physical CD. In 2008.
So your premise that I didn't accept this band is wrong on its face.
Guess that's me being right again. Hey...it's a gift and a curse, my friend. Gift and a curse.
Quote
No interview in the world could've change the fact that some didn't accept the band as GN'R. Simple as that.
Ultimately, I agree. But does that mean you just never even try?
He was never going to sell the masses that Robin Finck and Ron Thal were the same as the band they grew up on. Was not gonna happen, I agree with you.
But don't you take your best shot? Even if you couldn't get things back to the stadium level...back catalogue alone should have made arenas at least plausible.
Or...flipside...you do nothing and play "up close and personal" venues <wink>. And don't sell them out.
Life is about the choices you make.
And he sure as shit didn't agree to a reunion out of total nowhere because things were going swimmingly for GNR circa 2015.
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D-GenerationX
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
«
Reply #16 on:
December 14, 2022, 03:58:37 PM »
Quote from: GNR4L on December 14, 2022, 02:35:48 AM
I think this is probably the best lineup since the original AFD days
I don't see an argument that this is not the most competent and professional incarnation of the band.
The shows are super tight. Everyone gives their all. On time. No bullshit.
All of us that go to the shows have loved them. I trust you have friends that aren't diehard like we all are, that went and saw them since 2016, and told you it was great. I know I have had several.
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jarmo
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #17 on:
December 29, 2022, 06:47:02 AM »
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Rolling Stone puts him on the cover the second he asks. As would any other number of major magazines. Are you arguing he was willing to do so and they passed? Doubtful.
No, I'm saying he didn't wanna talk to them.
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Or...you take to random internet fan forums right after the album comes out and talk about a guy that hasn't been in your band for 13 years at that point. And describe him as
"a cancer, best removed".
What a brilliant promotional strategy. Really gives your new enterprise its best shot at success.
Yeah, speaking directly to the fans. Who could've guessed someone would say that was a
bad
thing...
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
So your premise that I didn't accept this band is wrong on its face.
To quote yourself:
I Can Finally Say I Saw Guns N' Roses Without Any Caveats, Qualifiers, Or Preambles. And It Was GLORIOUS. Best Concert Of My Life.
Yeah, you really were truly supportive and accepting!
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
Ultimately, I agree. But does that mean you just never even try?
There's a point in every situation where you either do something, or figure it's not worth the effort. We do it every day.
/jarmo
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
«
Reply #18 on:
December 29, 2022, 02:23:18 PM »
having Axl coming on GNR message boards was probably the best thing of that area with the release
of Chinese Democracy. at that time I thought it would become some sort of a recurrent event from time
to time, an opportunity for the fans to have a behind-the-scene perspective to kill misconceptions and
having fresh news. too bad it was a one shot, because he's still doing zero press and I can't see him
doing Joe Rogan or Howard Stern neither
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Re: I don't dig the last GN'R line-up
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Reply #19 on:
December 29, 2022, 03:06:37 PM »
Quote from: jarmo on December 29, 2022, 06:47:02 AM
Quote from: D-GenerationX on December 14, 2022, 03:54:14 PM
So your premise that I didn't accept this band is wrong on its face.
To quote yourself:
I Can Finally Say I Saw Guns N' Roses Without Any Caveats, Qualifiers, Or Preambles. And It Was GLORIOUS. Best Concert Of My Life.
Yeah, you really were truly supportive and accepting!
Don't want to stand in the middle of your argument here, but the fact that one prefers the new band, and sees it as "more GNR" than the old line-up doesn't mean lack of support for the old line-up.
There's no GNR fan in the world, and that includes you Jarmo, that would pick the old band over the current incarnation. That's a fact.
We enjoyed the band at the time, we liked CD, but there's no denying that something was missing there.
There was a time, I think circa 2006 (the era that Robin had long hair) that I thought the band would take off. Axl's voixe was amazing, Finck seemed to really enjoy and take his place as Axl's right arm, and Buckethead was gone (I liked his playing, but his persona never did it for me, it passed the image of a "non serious" band for me).
After Robin was gone I knew it was downhill from there (and it was).
So thank god we have our band back and no longer have caveats, qualifiers, or preambles.
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