Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

Could this be the beginning of the end?

You've been saying this for 2 years now! 

If the raid on Cohen was related to investigating Russian collusion in the 2016 election that's warranted , but if Mueller is seeking info regarding Stormy Daniels that is an abuse of power. 

Mueller has a job to do, which is investigate Russian collusion.  But his job isn't to nail Trump by any means possible and search for a crime.   

Just to clarify, I am not condoning Trump's behavior with the porn star.

Except, you know....Mueller's investigation didn't raid anyone.

He referred a possible criminal matter that they discovered, during their investigation, to the proper authorities to investigate.

And apparently those authorities (outside Mueller's purview) decided there was enough to warrant....well...a warrant.

I'd also point you to the Whitewater/Ken Star investigations into Clinton.  He certainly went pretty far afield to find something....ANYTHING....on Clinton (well outside what he was tasked to investigate), so I'd say special prosecuters have a precedent of getting to cast a pretty wide net, here.

[pilferk]

bye bye paul ryan. enjoy your millions, asshole.

That's a very nicely spun up version of "the Republicans think they're fucked in November".  Nice job!

[sandman]

bye bye paul ryan. enjoy your millions, asshole.

That's a very nicely spun up version of "the Republicans think they're fucked in November".  Nice job!

you can certainly interpret my posts anyway that makes you feel good. and while what you put in quotes may or may not be true, the point of my comment was not related to that. obviously, everyone knows the republicans are losing the house this year. that's been all but a certainty for quite some time.

my comment was more to demonstrate my hatred of any "establishment" politician. and point out the fact that the establishment on both sides rewards Wall Street and other special interests so they can collect from them and get rich. he's worth millions and he will turn that into hundreds of millions as he cashes in for selling out during the past several years.

Trump is a republican in name only. he does not have the support of the House and Senate, despite majorities. he continues to fight the establishment on all sides.

But Trump won the fight against Ryan. a major "drain the swamp" victory!!!

[tim_m]

Trump isn't sweating this? Are you high? Have you not seen his tweets? Sources say he's bouncing off the walls and doing nothing but eating and watching this unfold on tv. He is LIVID.

[tim_m]

bye bye paul ryan. enjoy your millions, asshole.

That's a very nicely spun up version of "the Republicans think they're fucked in November".  Nice job!

They are at the very least in the house. I still think they could be in the senate. I know you think it is unlikely that they'll lose that many seats there because there hasn't been a loss like that in our lifetime, but how much has happened since November 16 that you thought couldn't possibly happen?

[tim_m]

Could this be the beginning of the end?

You've been saying this for 2 years now! 

If the raid on Cohen was related to investigating Russian collusion in the 2016 election that's warranted , but if Mueller is seeking info regarding Stormy Daniels that is an abuse of power. 

Mueller has a job to do, which is investigate Russian collusion.  But his job isn't to nail Trump by any means possible and search for a crime.   

Just to clarify, I am not condoning Trump's behavior with the porn star.

Except, you know....Mueller's investigation didn't raid anyone.

He referred a possible criminal matter that they discovered, during their investigation, to the proper authorities to investigate.

And apparently those authorities (outside Mueller's purview) decided there was enough to warrant....well...a warrant.

I'd also point you to the Whitewater/Ken Star investigations into Clinton.  He certainly went pretty far afield to find something....ANYTHING....on Clinton (well outside what he was tasked to investigate), so I'd say special prosecuters have a precedent of getting to cast a pretty wide net, here.

Right and also it is MUCH more difficult to get a warrant to search an attorney. There are some very strict guidelines in place to protect attorny client privilege. In order to get the warrant you have to show a crime is very likely to have taken place.

[tim_m]

Also, how many times did Trump swear he'd never let a foreign power know an attack was coming then go and do exactly that with twitter yesterday?

[tim_m]

Could this be the beginning of the end?

You've been saying this for 2 years now! 

If the raid on Cohen was related to investigating Russian collusion in the 2016 election that's warranted , but if Mueller is seeking info regarding Stormy Daniels that is an abuse of power. 

Mueller has a job to do, which is investigate Russian collusion.  But his job isn't to nail Trump by any means possible and search for a crime.   

Just to clarify, I am not condoning Trump's behavior with the porn star.

If while going through evidence collected he found what seems to be evidence of a separate unrelated crime she has the right and obligation to refer it to proper authorities and did so.

[pilferk]

you can certainly interpret my posts anyway that makes you feel good. and while what you put in quotes may or may not be true, the point of my comment was not related to that. obviously, everyone knows the republicans are losing the house this year. that's been all but a certainty for quite some time.

my comment was more to demonstrate my hatred of any "establishment" politician. and point out the fact that the establishment on both sides rewards Wall Street and other special interests so they can collect from them and get rich. he's worth millions and he will turn that into hundreds of millions as he cashes in for selling out during the past several years.

Trump is a republican in name only. he does not have the support of the House and Senate, despite majorities. he continues to fight the establishment on all sides.

But Trump won the fight against Ryan. a major "drain the swamp" victory!!!

It's not "interpreting to make me feel good".  It's what you said.  And you don't even seem to realize it.

Your contention, at it's heart, is that Trump "won" by being so horrifically terrible, and making Republicans look so BAD, that Repubs think it will be near impossible for them to get elected in the House in enough numbers to preserve their majority.  And that thought process has led to record numbers of Repubs deciding not to seek reelection, including Ryan. Oh, wait...Paul wants to spend more time with his family.... 

That's quite the "win"!

He didn't "beat" Ryan. He "beat" the entire Republican party to the point they don't think they're nationally electable anymore.  This isn't Paul Ryan saying "I don't want to work with Trump, anymore. He's too awesome and I have been defeated.".  This is Ryan saying "I think I lose the election (not a PRIMARY, an election) in November."

I'm CERTAINLY no fan of Ryan, largely because he preached fiscal conservatism out of one side of his mouth (which I largely support) and proved with his votes that he really wanted anything but.  He only reenforced that once the Repubs had control of the legislature AND the presidency.  I'm not sad to see him go, for sure.

But lets be honest about why: He's not leaving because he's sick of "winning".  He's not leaving because, just at the pinnacle of Republican power, he suddenly wants to see more of his teenagers (I mean...c'mon...who wants to spend more time with petulant teens?  I have 2 of them...with a third that is quickly approaching teendom..and there are days I want to work MORE!).  And he's not leaving because of some pressure from Trump.

He's leaving because he's pretty sure he can't win an election in his district, in Wisconsin.

And that is wholly, entirely, completely because of the Trump anchor on the Republican party, as a whole.

So, again, I'll say it:

That's a very nicely spun up version of "the Republicans think they're fucked in November".  Nice job!

Now, whether they are right or now...we'll see.  But I don't think we can argue over whether they think it or not.  There is far too much evidence that they do.  People in the majority, who's party controls the presidency, who think they're going to win easily and preserve or extend that majority, tend to stick around.

The last time we saw this type of shift was 2010, with the Dems.  They thought they were going to get drubbed, and many abandoned the sinking ship before the elections. They were right.  We'll see if the Repubs are come November.

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Sources say he's bouncing off the walls and doing nothing but eating and watching this unfold on tv. He is LIVID.

Who are these" sources" ? Newsweek? 

 

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Could this be the beginning of the end?

You've been saying this for 2 years now! 

If the raid on Cohen was related to investigating Russian collusion in the 2016 election that's warranted , but if Mueller is seeking info regarding Stormy Daniels that is an abuse of power. 

Mueller has a job to do, which is investigate Russian collusion.  But his job isn't to nail Trump by any means possible and search for a crime.  Remind me what Mueller's mission is?

Just to clarify, I am not condoning Trump's behavior with the porn star.

If while going through evidence collected he found what seems to be evidence of a separate unrelated crime she has the right and obligation to refer it to proper authorities and did so.

Which is an investigation in search of a crime. You don't see any problem with that? 

I guess since it is Trump it doesn't matter how they try to take him down, the end justifies the means.

[pilferk]

Which is an investigation in search of a crime. You don't see any problem with that? 

I guess since it is Trump it doesn't matter how they try to take him down, the end justifies the means.

No, it's not.  That's what you WANT to see, but its not actually what happened, or how the process works. What happened is something that occurs in many, many (and not just those focused on Trump) federal investigations.

If you find, through normal investigative work/reviewing information collected, evidence of another crime, SOP is to take that evidence to the Senior Justice Department official in charge of the investigation, and let them decide what to do with it.  Essentially, you refer it back to the man in charge, who will delegate it or, if appropriate, expand your jurisdiction to investigate it.

Rosenstein decided that it would not remain with Mueller, but should be referred to the jurisdiction in which the crime occurred (Southern District of New York).

Starr did the same thing.  He brought the evidence of the Lewinsky issue to Reno, who told Starr to keep it and investigate it.  The Lewinsky issue, and testimony, had NOTHING to do with the Whitewater Investigation.  Zero. She chose to expand his jurisdiction.

It is literally your sworn duty, and standard law enforcement procedure, to do exactly this: If you find evidence of another crime, that is outside your normal jurisdiction, to relay that information and refer it to the agency/agent who would have jurisdiction.

That's what happened.

That's not an investigation looking for a crime.  That's an investigation reviewing all information they get, finding a potentially ancillary crime, and doing what they're supposed to do with that information.

[pilferk]

Sources say he's bouncing off the walls and doing nothing but eating and watching this unfold on tv. He is LIVID.

Who are these" sources" ? Newsweek? 

 

To be fair...you don't really need "sources".  His tweets pretty much convey it on their own.

You have to admit.....since the very beginning of this process, he has behaved exactly as the prototypical guilty person would.  Which doesn't make him guilty, of course.  Maybe it just makes him "bad at being investigated" or something (and please don't say "fighter").

If you wrote this character in a fictional book where they had done EXACTLY what is being alleged, here, your editor would say you've made him too obvious, and too Nixonion, and to go do some character refinement to make him more subtle because you're giving away the end of your book.

[tim_m]

This morning there seems to be more evidence of payoffs during the election being reported by The New Yorker. It looks like the Trump tower doorman was paid 30k by The Enquirers parent company which has done this in the past with Harvey Weinstein. It also seems Cohen might be involved in this as well.

[sandman]

you can certainly interpret my posts anyway that makes you feel good. and while what you put in quotes may or may not be true, the point of my comment was not related to that. obviously, everyone knows the republicans are losing the house this year. that's been all but a certainty for quite some time.

my comment was more to demonstrate my hatred of any "establishment" politician. and point out the fact that the establishment on both sides rewards Wall Street and other special interests so they can collect from them and get rich. he's worth millions and he will turn that into hundreds of millions as he cashes in for selling out during the past several years.

Trump is a republican in name only. he does not have the support of the House and Senate, despite majorities. he continues to fight the establishment on all sides.

But Trump won the fight against Ryan. a major "drain the swamp" victory!!!

It's not "interpreting to make me feel good".  It's what you said.  And you don't even seem to realize it.

Your contention, at it's heart, is that Trump "won" by being so horrifically terrible, and making Republicans look so BAD, that Repubs think it will be near impossible for them to get elected in the House in enough numbers to preserve their majority.  And that thought process has led to record numbers of Repubs deciding not to seek reelection, including Ryan. Oh, wait...Paul wants to spend more time with his family.... 

That's quite the "win"!

He didn't "beat" Ryan. He "beat" the entire Republican party to the point they don't think they're nationally electable anymore.  This isn't Paul Ryan saying "I don't want to work with Trump, anymore. He's too awesome and I have been defeated.".  This is Ryan saying "I think I lose the election (not a PRIMARY, an election) in November."

I'm CERTAINLY no fan of Ryan, largely because he preached fiscal conservatism out of one side of his mouth (which I largely support) and proved with his votes that he really wanted anything but.  He only reenforced that once the Repubs had control of the legislature AND the presidency.  I'm not sad to see him go, for sure.

But lets be honest about why: He's not leaving because he's sick of "winning".  He's not leaving because, just at the pinnacle of Republican power, he suddenly wants to see more of his teenagers (I mean...c'mon...who wants to spend more time with petulant teens?  I have 2 of them...with a third that is quickly approaching teendom..and there are days I want to work MORE!).  And he's not leaving because of some pressure from Trump.

He's leaving because he's pretty sure he can't win an election in his district, in Wisconsin.

And that is wholly, entirely, completely because of the Trump anchor on the Republican party, as a whole.

So, again, I'll say it:

That's a very nicely spun up version of "the Republicans think they're fucked in November".  Nice job!

Now, whether they are right or now...we'll see.  But I don't think we can argue over whether they think it or not.  There is far too much evidence that they do.  People in the majority, who's party controls the presidency, who think they're going to win easily and preserve or extend that majority, tend to stick around.

The last time we saw this type of shift was 2010, with the Dems.  They thought they were going to get drubbed, and many abandoned the sinking ship before the elections. They were right.  We'll see if the Repubs are come November.

you do not understand trump supporters. you do not understand trump. you're so locked into the "R vs D" mentality, you can't even see things any other way. right where they want you.

[sandman]

This morning there seems to be more evidence of payoffs during the election being reported by The New Yorker. It looks like the Trump tower doorman was paid 30k by The Enquirers parent company which has done this in the past with Harvey Weinstein. It also seems Cohen might be involved in this as well.

IF campaign finance laws were broken, the penalty will be a slap on the wrist. 

[sandman]

Also, how many times did Trump swear he'd never let a foreign power know an attack was coming then go and do exactly that with twitter yesterday?

serious question....are you more disgusted with Trump's tweet, or with the possibility we could be entering a war in Syria?

what would you like to see the U.S. do in Syria? Do you believe the intelligence reports?

[pilferk]

IF campaign finance laws were broken, the penalty will be a slap on the wrist. 

Yes. I've said this before, too.  Potentially many, many slaps, but just slaps. And mostly against Cohen (and potentially enough slaps to financially ruin him), though I suppose the Trump campaign could see some fines and potential limitations imposed on "soft money" donations for 2020.

But, here's the thing: You would typically refer that type of investigation (if it were only that) directly to the FEC, not the Southern District of New York.  So you would think they have something a bit more than that, based on that referral.

IF extortion, coercion, bribery, money laundering, conspiracy, fraud, or OTHER potential crimes were committed by Cohen (in his role as "fixer", if, indeed, he held that role as alleged)...it will be a bit more.  But I would expect the focus to be on Cohen, NOT Trump.  I suspect that's largely why Rosenstein told Mueller to pass the information off to jurisdictional law enforcement.  But we'll see when the investigation wraps up....and we'll see what charges they bring, if any.

[DeN]

that TV show is way better than House of Cards 

[pilferk]

Edit:

Just deleted that last post.

You know what...never mind...I don't want to know.