is this english??

[jarmo]

HOW DARE YOU INSINUATE THAT THE FANS ARE TO BLAME FOR THIS ALBUM'S LACK OF SUCCESS?

Get a fucking clue and learn how to fucking read.

I never said that.


As far as I know, Axl didn't call the fans idiots. Only those people who demand release dates for the next album as soon as the current one was out.

The amusing thing is that once you speak out against some fans, you get attacked for bashing all fans.  

Point out a little group of people and you're suddenly hating everybody..... Talk about generalizations.

I guess it makes you feel better? The whole "he doesn't hate me, he hates us all!" thing.



If you behave like an asshole and somebody points it out to you, you can always say "that person hates us all!" instead of stopping to think what was actually said.

No, that person only said you're a fucking asshole and doesn't give a fuck about you. Not that everybody is one.



Only a certain kind of people would even be insulted by that quote by Axl. Nobody else would because they know what he said is true and don't feel targeted.





/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

We the fans already know what is out there and we the fans already know IT IS GREAT!!!

Now it's all about spreading the word by doing stuff like making sure the radio stations give the songs the airplay they deserve!!!

My point exactly. Except I think this "spreading the word" should start with Axl and his bandmembers. Being the business professional that I am requires that I frequently travel to try and sell my company's services. Customer referrals are great, but it certainly isn't our top means of promotion.

I'm not saying that a fan can't call the local radio station to request his favorite band's songs, but it is kind of disheartening when the guy responsible for that art didn't even see reason to make it known (a tv, radio interview, something). A good friend of mine has a friend that is a known Chicago rock station DJ. As he's explained over drinks, it takes more than a few caller requests before something is considered "in demand". And according to him, Chinese D was not. The responsibility starts with the artist(s) and label. If they don't "appear" interested, their fans probably won't either.

Did you miss all the "chatting" Axl did on the different forums and the interview he did with Billboard?? How about the interviews that Tommy and Brain did that appeared in magazines and online??  How about all the stuff that Richard and Ron have been saying??

A good friend of mine has a friend that is a known Chicago rock station DJ. As he's explained over drinks, it takes more than a few caller requests before something is considered "in demand". And according to him, Chinese D was not.

I take that to mean that not enough FANS were calling.  That's why I'm suggesting that we the fans need to continue to request them to show the radio stations that they ARE in demand!!!

Last time I checked, Axl called us all idiots for wanting to hear new music from him.

The band has nothing but utter contempt for their fans.

If we didn't know better, Axl's behaviour (or lack of) would make us think that he was ashamed of the record.

WTF?? 

[SMFS]

A good friend of mine has a friend that is a known Chicago rock station DJ. As he's explained over drinks, it takes more than a few caller requests before something is considered "in demand". And according to him, Chinese D was not.

I take that to mean that not enough FANS were calling.  That's why I'm suggesting that we the fans need to continue to request them to show the radio stations that they ARE in demand!!!

Ok, I'll give you that one. that actually makes more sense.
If the band had more fans, they'd be more successful.

All they need to do is figure out a way to get more fans.

[jarmo]

I'll break it down for those who have short attention spans:

1. I don't hate all fans.
2. I don't think fans are responsible for promoting the album.
3. I don't think the US sales of the album are due to the fans not promoting the album.
4. I don't think pointing out that there are some assholes in a group of people means you hate everybody.

Thank you.




/jarmo

[The Prez]

We're kinda out of the topic in the discussions....
The topic is about were do we go....
- a new beginning
- a phase (and within some time a kind of partially reunion...)
- gn'r is 'dying'

I am bit afraid that Guns is more like to an ending and that ChiDem was like maybe their last album. I am just thinking that because of the lack of (big) public interest, lack of promotional interest, and so on.... It's only us, the hardcore fanbase who still care about GN'R... I hope I'm wrong and they soon announce a tour or a new single (with or without video) or anything else as long it has to do with GN'Rs music.

Maybe I'm just too pessimistic which I normally aren't. We'll see. I hope chidem is a 'new beginning' (new era for Guns N' Roses with new bandmembers, upcomming hits and video's...., new 'sound'/'style',...

..but again I doubt it.

[russtcb]

Did you see my point about all these threads at various boards with links to polls and such? I don't think my disbelief in the power of requests is amusing based on how that worked out. Radio station after radio station had their online polls "rigged" (for lack of a better term) by GNR online fans. What did that accomplish?

I hope somebody took notice.


To me it proved that there are fans who do give a fuck instead of just sitting in front of the screens whining.... So personally I think that's a good sign.  

I guess in the end we just disagree on what/if the fans should be resonsible for making this music successful.

No. Because nobody is saying that. It's just your interpretation.

If requesting songs equals the fans are responsible for the promotion, it's always been like that.

It's just a ridiculous assumption to even assume that's what I mean.


Fans can do a lot of positive things. Unfortunately (but not surprising) many choose not to and just focus on the negativity.

These are the people who are never happy. And by saying that I'm being accused of "bashing the fanbase".

Hilarious in itself since that means I'm bashing myself along with all those who do give a fuck and support the band through everything.





/jarmo

You hope someone took notice? That's the problem; no one did. The fans went out (myself included) and clicked on every poll they could, called every DJ they could, bought the record 2 & 3 times (on average). Nothing happened. The songs weren't played any more often and they certainly didn't catch on and the album didn't sell more.

At the end of the day I love the album. I could honestly care less if anyone else does. I wanted it for years, I got it. As a bonus I sincerely love it save for 2 songs and one of those I don't even dislike all that much, I just don't love it. The only reason I got in this discussion is because (to me) it looked as if people were being talking down to (not necessarily by you) for wondering aloud when a tour and proper promotion. I found that to be funny; the idea that the fans are somehow a reason for success or lack thereof at the moment.

[jarmo]

You hope someone took notice? That's the problem; no one did.

Well then those people are truly ignorant.


Lets say you work at a radio station and have a poll on your site. A band wins the poll. You can just be ignorant and disregard it, or you can look at the results and think "Maybe that band isn't my cup of tea, but they sure seem to have some fans....".




/jarmo

[-Rob-]

Did you miss all the "chatting" Axl did on the different forums and the interview he did with Billboard?? How about the interviews that Tommy and Brain did that appeared in magazines and online??  How about all the stuff that Richard and Ron have been saying??

No. I'm well aware he payed a visit to alot of the major fan forums, and I think that's great. Unfortunately, I wouldn't call that a major promotional campaign. Hell, I'm not sure if I'd refer to that as promotion at all. How many "new" or casual fans do you think he reached with those visits? Anyone who is a member of a band's fan forum is probably a pretty diehard fan to begin with. You're really not 'promoting' anything to those individuals. I'm pretty sure every member that frequents these forums already owns the album, or if nothing else, they've at least heard it. So sorry, but I can't count that as Axl doing promotion. It was cool that he visited nonetheless. As far as Brain and Tommy, the only reason that I even knew that they did those interviews was because you posted the articles here. Weren't those interviews featured in magazines that many would consider to be obscure?

I take that to mean that not enough FANS were calling.  That's why I'm suggesting that we the fans need to continue to request them to show the radio stations that they ARE in demand!!!

I suppose you could look at it as such. But you also have to look at the reality that Chinese D isn't going to be everyone's cup of tea. I've personally played it for several friends and quite a few had less than favorable reactions. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I can do all the talking that I like, but if the music just doesn't do it for them, my preaching will be pointless. For example, I can attend a several day seminar where I solicit my company's services; telling individuals all these things we could do to make their business solutions easier. If they decided to give us a shot, and we make a bad first impression, there probably won't be a second chance to make that wrong right. I think the band/label's choice of first single was one of the major killers to this album's success. I'm not saying that I personally think the song is bad, but the reality is, it's not a very catchy, mainstream appeal type of song.

[russtcb]

You hope someone took notice? That's the problem; no one did.

Well then those people are truly ignorant.


Lets say you work at a radio station and have a poll on your site. A band wins the poll. You can just be ignorant and disregard it, or you can look at the results and think "Maybe that band isn't my cup of tea, but they sure seem to have some fans....".




/jarmo

Ok. So whether or not those program directors/DJs are igrorant for ignoring those polls, do you see what I'm saying about how the requesting/ fan promotion aspect is/was having little to no effect?

[D]

The biggest problem is with how crooked radio is.

They play music that is safe and will draw the most advertisers and ratings.

Axl not doing radio promo I guarantee hurt GNR's radio airplay.

I remember watching Metallica's "Some Kind Of Monster" and they had to do this really corny spot for a radio station. if not the station pretty much said it wouldn't support their album.

So Axl not doing any radio press, I would imagine pissed off radio personalities and they probably won't play any GNR until they get something in return.

[The Glow Inc.]

I don't think GnR is dying...I mean, look at NIN. " The Downward Spiral "sold like what, 10 million copies ? Then The Fragile ( which was, imo, their best album to date ) was a flop ( kinda like ChiDem in a way... except that ChiDem, even though it is weirdly considered a flop, sold 3.7 million copies worldwide ) but NIN still exists ten years later. Same for Marilyn Manson's Antichrist Superstar and a shitload of other bands. It's just a bit different for GnR because they were the biggest rock band until 93 and because ChiDem took so long but if you look at the facts :

-Chinese Democracy didn't sell too well in the U.S but didn't bomb at all if you take into consideration worldwide sales ( 3.7 million copies with next to no promotion at all )
-The 2006 and 2007 tours were rather successfull, especially in Europe and Japan

I think it is still pretty good considering the fact that Axl generates so much hate from so-called fans, that badmouthing Axl and his crew had been the popular thing to do since 1998, and that the band consists in musicians unknown from mainstream audiences. I wouldn't worry too much.

 As long as Axl focuses on getting things done, even though it takes a loooooooooooooooong time, and does not say fuck it because of lack of support from his label, things should be fine.

[jarmo]

Ok. So whether or not those program directors/DJs are igrorant for ignoring those polls, do you see what I'm saying about how the requesting/ fan promotion aspect is/was having little to no effect?

Yes, it has no effect when those ignorant people don't take notice.

But I refuse to think that requests never work. That's a generalization and it's just easy excuse for not having to take part in anything.


I guess it's because I don't think that we just have to settle with whatever is decided for us by the record companies, radio stations, TV channels etc.

The biggest problem is with how crooked radio is.

Yes, a bunch of politics and egos.





/jarmo

[younggunner]

Why does anything surprise you guys and gals anymore? Just enjoy the music and whatever crumbs we get. Its much easier that way. I have been out of the loop over the past few months and have gained a different perspective of the band and the situation. I listen to the album everyday. But in terms of the boards and the train wreck that is the promotion of this masterpiece of an album....forget it. dont bother. Trust me, I used too. Its much easier and less frustrating.

You will never get through to Jarmo and the people that share the same viewpoints of the whole fan/band/promotion/CD era dynamic. Just sit back and raise the volume.

CD is without a doubt an amazing GNR album

and btw

FUCK RADIO
radio is garbage. They asked for years when Axl will release the album...and when he releases it they dont play it. Fuk them.

Just enjoy the album, the tours, the old days(old and new), the band and whatever crumbs they may throw at us along the way.

GNR back at the top is just not in the cards.


Its very simple....and this sums up the whole CD era...

TIMING IS EVERYTHING

[4tus phenomenon]

One of the problem is that Axl can't decide of everything alone, it's a lot of responsability.

He should give more responsabilities and exposure to the Guitar Players in the band. The Leadership has to be more equilibrated.
In the old band, Slash was very popular, Axl wasn't the only Star in he band. That's why the old band was so popular, there was an identity. The members of the band weren't "employees" or ghosts, they were famous Rockstars and people were attached to everyone of them.

A band is less popular when there's just one famous guy on board. I'd like to see ful songs by the bandmembers.

Put more light on the band. They can take decisions as well.

[-Rob-]

The biggest problem is with how crooked radio is.

They play music that is safe and will draw the most advertisers and ratings.

Axl not doing radio promo I guarantee hurt GNR's radio airplay.

I remember watching Metallica's "Some Kind Of Monster" and they had to do this really corny spot for a radio station. if not the station pretty much said it wouldn't support their album.

So Axl not doing any radio press, I would imagine pissed off radio personalities and they probably won't play any GNR until they get something in return.

I really don't see the "radio being crooked" as being an issue. There's just a certain type of music that is considered "mainstream" or "in". Unfortunately, the vast majority of Chinese D didn't meet that criteria. 'TWAT' is hands down my favorite track on the album, but I highly doubt that I ever hear the song on the top 20. I know there were alot of people who thought 'Better' would be the song that had mainstream crossover potential, but as we saw, it didn't ignite the spark that many of us had hoped.

There were plenty of things that caused this album to drop off the Billboard after only a few months, but I don't think criminal radio behavior had anything to do with it.

[The Glow Inc.]

This is why hiring Dj Ashba was a good move 

He has a rabid female fanbase and that rockstar vibe going about him. 

[russtcb]

Ok. So whether or not those program directors/DJs are igrorant for ignoring those polls, do you see what I'm saying about how the requesting/ fan promotion aspect is/was having little to no effect?

Yes, it has no effect when those ignorant people don't take notice.

But I refuse to think that requests never work. That's a generalization and it's just easy excuse for not having to take part in anything.


I guess it's because I don't think that we just have to settle with whatever is decided for us by the record companies, radio stations, TV channels etc.

The biggest problem is with how crooked radio is.

Yes, a bunch of politics and egos.





/jarmo

I don't have to settle for what radio, etc gives to me that's why I buy and listen to what I like. But again, you're discounting my valid point as an "easy excuse to do nothing". Nevermind the fact that tons of fans from these boards tried hard and it didn't help. Just call it an easy excuse to do nothing?

[ppbebe]

They asked for years when Axl will release the album...and when he releases it they dont play it.

somewhat sounds familiar....

[D]

I think a lot of it comes down to GNR made a Great album in a day and age of singles.

People buy singles not albums these days thanks to the Itune culture.

If this were released 20 years ago, it would've been huge.

[Voodoochild]

Russ, I think you're misunderstanding what jarmo has been saying.

My example: I've been working with a guy who thought the new album was lame because of the title. I said "fuck it, just give it a chance and listen" - believe me, he didn't really listen to a single track of the album. And there's lot of people who did the same: bashed as hell, but didn't even give it a try.

I think this album will need some time to pass through all the prejudice about the name and the negative media. Hard job, but not impossible. But it's out already, so why not try to help with those people? Maybe they like it and spread it to more people.

To be honest, I don't care where

Do you wanna go with GNR?

say yeah!

YEAH!