Could Axl Be A Marketing Genius?

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Ive played the new songs for a lot of people....................... no song blew anyone of them away.



That doesn't mean a lot but they are casual GNR fans, people who can't name the members etc probably have no clue there is even a new band etc.


Axl could be a marketing genius.


I have a feeling for CD to be successful, he is gonna have to be.


He definitely has the makings of one, the Trilogy videos were definitely great marketing.

Well to be honest how much stuff do you play that "blows people away"?  It's one of the most, ahem, overblown statements out there.  I mean most people who are rock fans have heard so many great and classic albums they're not going to be "blown away" by something in 2008 no matter how good it is.  Everyone I have played it for has given some form of positive feedback but aren't blown away, nor are the same people blown away by songs like Locomotive, Coma or Estranged.  Only the hardcore GnR fans are the ones who recognize the greatness of those songs, the casual rock fan or casual GnR fan would prefer to listen to one of the big hits than any of those.  Most casual fans aren't going to go crazy about it, until there's a hit on the radio.

Sorry dude, but that sounds like a cop out.

Cop out from what?  What's the last album you played for someone that "blew them away"?   I've had friends who said they love GnR and stare blankly when I mentioned some of the less well known songs, and I'll play them Estranged or Locomotive and say something like "it's pretty good", and these are some of the best songs I've ever heard in my opinion.  Better has gotten an overwhelmingly good response from people and a lot of people have said that the new stuff is "a lot better than they thought it would be" but I wouldn't say anyone was blown away.  Though I can't think of anything I've ever played for someone that they said "blew them away" or just freaked out about how amazingly great it was.  That's just not how most people are

[D]

^
Thats the attitude that this forum has and its a huge mistake in the grand scheme of things.

THEY HAVE TO HAVE a WTTJ,SCOM,PC, NR for this album to be successful.

U think November Rain wasn't instantly loved before it hit the radio?


So far, out of what we've heard, they have nothing Id call a classic song.  Madagascar maybe......... well to me it is.



That in my opinion has alot to do with why CD has taken so long.


U dont replace an iconic legendary band, keep the name and release good material

It has to be fucking great and Axl knows that which in a way makes him a marketing genius cause he isn't gonna release it till he feels it is great.

[mrbucketfoot]

THEY HAVE TO HAVE a WTTJ,SCOM,PC, NR for this album to be successful.

U think November Rain wasn't instantly loved before it hit the radio?

Besides your fucking atrocious spelling, you are incredibly wrong. About everything.

Firstly, just because Joe Blow doesn't think it's amazing or "blow away" doesn't mean that their opinion is right. The movie 'The Departed' is one of the greatest films in recent years but many people that I know that saw the movie didn't think it was 'anything special'. However there is the group who realizes what an amazing film it is, for it's cinematography, it's funny and well written script, great editing, etc. They know what composes something great. If the founding fathers of the United States didn't think that the general populace were intelligent enough or dedicated enough to find the best choice to properly govern the country, do you think that most people are capable of realizing what is music good or not? No. That's why a hell of a lot of people have bad taste and a lot of people are losers.

Secondly, Welcome the Jungle, one of the greatest rock n' roll songs ever written was bashed by critics and poorly received upon release. GN'R, one of the freshest, rawest bands out there that eventually gave rock a kick in the proverbial balls was looked over. It wasn't until Sweet Child got a ton of airplays and a bunch of teeny-bopping girls thought that Axl was 'so hawt' until GN'R started to catch on. Oh, and they were the people who thought that Paradise City was a happy song.

So inclosing, taste is something that you have to acquire over a extended period time to appreciate. It's easy to point fingers and say this or that now, but when the GNR-Train gets moving trust me there will be a bunch of bandwaggoners jumping on board. It's erroneous to even discuss how the reaction will be off of demos, but songs like 'Better' have amazing hooks with pseudo-pop appeal, 'The Blues' has a eye-watering tone of reflection, and 'Madagascar' is a tale of redemption. So far "Chinese Democracy" from the demos and live performances is shaping up to be an amazing album to please casuals, hardcores, and critics alike.

So in summation, taste is something that you gain but just because you really like something doesn't mean that you are owed anything. Most people will buy or see or listen to what the big black squeekin' box tells them to. If it has flash and glitz, they'll give their money to it. GNR isn't going to have anything like Jungle or Paradise City on it because the band isn't trying to remake Appetite.

They're going for something new, something raw, something fresh. Maybe this time they'll get looked over like they almost were in '87, but atleast they're betting the house.

[AxlsMainMan]

The majority of Better could have been written before 2000.

Just because Buckethead was on the demo doesn't mean the song wasn't a work in progress before he arrived.

Axl did say the song was written by Robin afterall..

Gnr dont make pop songs, so they dont appeal to the vast majority of the market

While they might not be classified as pop songs, virtually every Gn'R song has pop elements in it.

That's one of many reasons why their music appeals to a broader audience outside of rock listeners.

My grandparents for example.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

The majority of Better could have been written before 2000.

Just because Buckethead was on the demo doesn't mean the song wasn't a work in progress before he arrived.

Axl did say the song was written by Robin afterall..

That's true, anything is possible.  What I was getting at is that all in all, out of the songs we have heard, Better is the only one that might have been written after the year 2000.  Madagascar, Silkworms, Rhiad, The Blues, and Chinese Democracy all debuted in January 2001.  Oh My God was released in 1999.   CD, IRS, TWAT, Catcher, The Blues, were all heard by Rolling Stone in 1999 and discussed in the January 2000 issue.  The only song we've heard that might have been written after the year 2000 is Better.  So to me, calling the songs dated, though I don't necessarily agree with it, it's good to keep in mind that even if someone finds the new songs dated, well they are all 8+ years old and we haven't heard much if anything that was written from 2001-2007.  The reason I suspect Better is newer is because it's the most modern sounding song and was never mentioned in earlier interviews, nor did it surface when many of the rumored track titles that turned out to be real were floating around

[D]

THEY HAVE TO HAVE a WTTJ,SCOM,PC, NR for this album to be successful.

U think November Rain wasn't instantly loved before it hit the radio?

Besides your fucking atrocious spelling, you are incredibly wrong. About everything.

Firstly, just because Joe Blow doesn't think it's amazing or "blow away" doesn't mean that their opinion is right. The movie 'The Departed' is one of the greatest films in recent years but many people that I know that saw the movie didn't think it was 'anything special'. However there is the group who realizes what an amazing film it is, for it's cinematography, it's funny and well written script, great editing, etc. They know what composes something great. If the founding fathers of the United States didn't think that the general populace were intelligent enough or dedicated enough to find the best choice to properly govern the country, do you think that most people are capable of realizing what is music good or not? No. That's why a hell of a lot of people have bad taste and a lot of people are losers.

Secondly, Welcome the Jungle, one of the greatest rock n' roll songs ever written was bashed by critics and poorly received upon release. GN'R, one of the freshest, rawest bands out there that eventually gave rock a kick in the proverbial balls was looked over. It wasn't until Sweet Child got a ton of airplays and a bunch of teeny-bopping girls thought that Axl was 'so hawt' until GN'R started to catch on. Oh, and they were the people who thought that Paradise City was a happy song.

So inclosing, taste is something that you have to acquire over a extended period time to appreciate. It's easy to point fingers and say this or that now, but when the GNR-Train gets moving trust me there will be a bunch of bandwaggoners jumping on board. It's erroneous to even discuss how the reaction will be off of demos, but songs like 'Better' have amazing hooks with pseudo-pop appeal, 'The Blues' has a eye-watering tone of reflection, and 'Madagascar' is a tale of redemption. So far "Chinese Democracy" from the demos and live performances is shaping up to be an amazing album to please casuals, hardcores, and critics alike.

So in summation, taste is something that you gain but just because you really like something doesn't mean that you are owed anything. Most people will buy or see or listen to what the big black squeekin' box tells them to. If it has flash and glitz, they'll give their money to it. GNR isn't going to have anything like Jungle or Paradise City on it because the band isn't trying to remake Appetite.

They're going for something new, something raw, something fresh. Maybe this time they'll get looked over like they almost were in '87, but atleast they're betting the house.

Attrocious spelling?

Exactly what did I spell wrong?

Fans like u are fucking dillusional if you think CD will be a success without some hits on it.  I applaud your blind loyalty but without a kick ass HIT first single, this album is going to fucking BOMB.


None of the leaks are radio friendly singles, shit that is gonna make the masses buy the album.  What people like yourself don't realize is, WE, The hardcore GNR fan Dont fuckin matter.


If you READ MY PREVIOUS FUCKING POST, u would see that I said what my friends say doesn't matter, but it is an opinion of people who are casual fans that love a lot of the old stuff.

I've had about 20 people say the same shit.  Axl sounds great, lyrics are great but it just doesn't sound like GNR.

we'd love shit if Axl did a fuckin spoken word album over a woodblock.

For this incarnation of GNR to have longetivity and to carry on the GNR legacy, they have to make an INCREDIBLE FUCKING ALBUM.

It can't be good, it can't be ok, it has to be groundbreaking and just awe inspiring to justify the time put into this.

Axl already has 2 and a half strikes against him just on his rep, the new band using the same name and the long wait for this cd, so anything less than Led Zeppelin IV mixed with The Wall mixed with AFD level music is gonna have a hard time going over and getting the credit it deserves.

It is going to take way  more than the 20,000 or so die hard message board loyalists to make this album and this band stay around for awhile successfully.

To believe otherwise is fooling yourself.


So Axl is a marketing Genius cause he knows this and is making sure everything is in place and perfect before releasing it.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

D, you honestly think Better would have been a hit?  I think that it would've been a huge hit if they'd released the album earlier.  I think it's been in circulation too long now, but that song has a lot of the characteristics of the what made GnR popular despite not sounding like old GnR.  It is very catchy, it has a pop element but is still heavy enough to rock hard.  But, at this point it may have been leaked too long ago to be a viable single which is a shame

[mrbucketfoot]

I'm not saying that the album can be "okay" can get away with it. I'm saying from what we've heard, it's more than on track to being an amazing album.

And like ShotgunBlues has said, 'Better', atleast in the poppy demo form is the definition of 'radio-friendly'. What about I.R.S.? Not as good of a hook as Better, but very memorable. With the exception of TWAT and Chinese, I'd say all of the new material is radio-friendly.

My point was that people who say the new material isn't good don't know what they're talking about or they are hanging onto the past. I agree that GNR needs something that will gain mass appeal and help get the word out that GNR is back. They need good marketing and promotion and then the album itself will speak and promote itself in many ways. I've talked about it before that GNR needs to grab a new era of fans and in many ways it's done that. A lot of kids like GNR and are sharing that with their friends. That needs to steadily increase and they need to somehow attract girls. I think "The Blues" will help that a lot and from what little Axl has said about "This I Love", so will that.

One thing they need to mirror in a 21st century makeover way is release a 'hardcore' song like Jungle was, but later one like Sweet Child.

My beef was with you talking about the new songs. They're great. Most people think they're great. But if you play them for your friends and they don't like them, it doesn't matter. Either they have poor taste or are jaded by the history of the album. Regardless of people having poor taste, if they see "Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy....." on TV with some boobs and shiny graphics or put a song on their favorite TV Show, they'll buy the album or at least download a song.

How many people saw Spiderman 3? A lot of people. But that movie sucked. A decent amount of people don't care or don't know that the old lineup broke up. But if you put "Guns N' Roses" on the screen, people are probably going to want to see what it is. They have AFD and UYI going for them, most people will want to see CD because they've come to expect good stuff from Guns N' Roses. Maybe it's the mythos behind it.

[D]

^

See we disagree though

I think IRS is maybe the worst GNR leak. 


Like I said about my friends, I acknowledged it meant nothing but it just shows a small opinion of some casual fans and I hope that isn't how other casual fans feel.


Cause  you all have to remember, our opinions don't hold much weight.  Especially when u consider IRS to be this massive amazing hit song. Cause honestly it isnt.


U talk about me saying the songs arent good cause of my friends opinions and then u come on here speaking for the majority of the world saying everyone thinks these songs are great.

how do u know what everyone thinks?

U know what hard core GNR fans think but of course they are gonna praise the songs. Thats what fanatics do.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

^

See we disagree though

I think IRS is maybe the worst GNR leak. 


Like I said about my friends, I acknowledged it meant nothing but it just shows a small opinion of some casual fans and I hope that isn't how other casual fans feel.


Cause  you all have to remember, our opinions don't hold much weight.  Especially when u consider IRS to be this massive amazing hit song. Cause honestly it isnt.


U talk about me saying the songs arent good cause of my friends opinions and then u come on here speaking for the majority of the world saying everyone thinks these songs are great.

how do u know what everyone thinks?

U know what hard core GNR fans think but of course they are gonna praise the songs. Thats what fanatics do.

But, I will say this.  IRS may be a "mid-tier" type of song in the recorded version.  But after seeing them live 3 times in 2006, IRS is a top 5 live song, new or old, live.  It's an amazing song live.  Not that that has anything to do with sales, hit potential, or single success, but it is a fucking bad ass live song

[mrbucketfoot]

Agreed with ShotgunBlues.

IRS as performed in 2006 is a great song. It's got a great pseudo-Nevermind tinge and really hard, rip-roaring vocals.

I speak for many because of the hardcore, my friends, and the large handful of individuals that I've shared the songs with (usually with a strong, professional music background). That includes the entire hard rock radio station and media company that I used to work for. Either they really enjoy them or see the promise in them. A couple of them (myself included) didn't really care for Axl trying to reinvent our favorite band, but after seeing them in 2002 and later 2006, we were won over. I'm not a blind Axl-loyalist as you paint me to be.

There was a pretty good spread in age and lifestyles from teenagers at my nephew's high school, older music fans, moms to metal-heads. Overall I probably talked to 150 or so people. I get around. My legs are usually open.

[misterID]

D, to be fair there is a big possibility that he's sitting on an amazing song(s) that will blow everyone away. Isn't that what's been speculated about Prostitute?

let's see.

The GNR camp has been selling a non existing product for over ten years now.....we bought into it....the media bought into it....they made bucks off of Chinese Democracy and no one knows if the thing even exists, let alone when it will see the light of day....

Where have they made a penny from Chinese Democracy? Everyone going to see the band is going because it's Guns N Roses. The majority don't care who the band is, they just want to hear Axl Rose singing the old songs. Not one person went to a concert because of an album they never heard of, they went because of Axl and the band. If you remember, there were people going to the shows unaware that it wasn't the same band, and people from this very message board were having to tell people at the venue that it was just Axl, there was a new band, and there was an album called Chinese Democracy.

How much free media coverage did Chinese Democracy receive up until this point? Work it out.....magazine articles, tv spots...features here and there....all non commissioned by gnr....(most rumor driven, but that's beside the point)....

Axl gets made fun of the majority of the time about it!!! That's not good publicity! It was mysterious in 2002, now its a joke. Hopefully the album, if its released, will change that...

How many fans flocked to see those shows in 02, 06 and 07?
90% in hope that it was the big announcement of a return to greatness....almost all of those show attendants knew about Chinese Democracy, the basics of the story, and its history so far...

Wasn't Better one of the most downloaded files on the net during that week when it leaked?

Again: People go to shows to see Axl not because of some album they've never heard. Not as many people have downloaded the leaks as you think, and even fewer (not saying they're aren't to give you benefit of the doubt) were inspired so much by them to suddenly jump on the new bands fanwagon.

Which other rock star do you know of who went out of the public eye for so long, and still, 14 odd years later stayed as popular with the media and fans as Axl Rose has?

Is Axl Rose a marketing genius?

Absolutely.
No Doubt about it.

He is still popular because he was a "real" musician who actually meant something. But the level of popularity that he has will do nothing to help sell millions of copies of CD. He doesn't have a very good reputation on top of it.

[Lostrose]

jeez, such hostility....


I like the leaks.   Just about all of them w/ the exception of CITR. 

And the reason that none of the leaks are "hits" yet, is because they aren't final versions.  I'll bet my balls (ok, i lied.  no i won't) that CD rocks when it is finally released.  Until then, i remain waiting faithfully.

Personally, i think some of the new leaks are better than some of the old stuff.  Maybe not better, but i find myself listening to them more.

I love the guitar work.

[D]

Agreed with ShotgunBlues.

IRS as performed in 2006 is a great song. It's got a great pseudo-Nevermind tinge and really hard, rip-roaring vocals.

I speak for many because of the hardcore, my friends, and the large handful of individuals that I've shared the songs with (usually with a strong, professional music background). That includes the entire hard rock radio station and media company that I used to work for. Either they really enjoy them or see the promise in them. A couple of them (myself included) didn't really care for Axl trying to reinvent our favorite band, but after seeing them in 2002 and later 2006, we were won over. I'm not a blind Axl-loyalist as you paint me to be.

There was a pretty good spread in age and lifestyles from teenagers at my nephew's high school, older music fans, moms to metal-heads. Overall I probably talked to 150 or so people. I get around. My legs are usually open.

There ya go again with the double standard bullshit

My friends hated them but their opinions dont count

your friends loved them so automatically they are great.

U can't argue with that logic.


IRS is not a top 5 GNR song new or old. That is straight fuckin dillusional.

The only way u can say that is simply cause the old songs are so worn and played out that a new song is more refreshing to hear. I myself will shoot myself in the skull and lick up the blood if  hear some of the AFD songs live again.

[ShotgunBlues1978]

Agreed with ShotgunBlues.

IRS as performed in 2006 is a great song. It's got a great pseudo-Nevermind tinge and really hard, rip-roaring vocals.

I speak for many because of the hardcore, my friends, and the large handful of individuals that I've shared the songs with (usually with a strong, professional music background). That includes the entire hard rock radio station and media company that I used to work for. Either they really enjoy them or see the promise in them. A couple of them (myself included) didn't really care for Axl trying to reinvent our favorite band, but after seeing them in 2002 and later 2006, we were won over. I'm not a blind Axl-loyalist as you paint me to be.

There was a pretty good spread in age and lifestyles from teenagers at my nephew's high school, older music fans, moms to metal-heads. Overall I probably talked to 150 or so people. I get around. My legs are usually open.

There ya go again with the double standard bullshit

My friends hated them but their opinions dont count

your friends loved them so automatically they are great.

U can't argue with that logic.


IRS is not a top 5 GNR song new or old. That is straight fuckin dillusional.

The only way u can say that is simply cause the old songs are so worn and played out that a new song is more refreshing to hear. I myself will shoot myself in the skull and lick up the blood if  hear some of the AFD songs live again.

Dude, I never said it was a top 5 GnR song.  I said that live it was one of their top 5 performances of every show I went to.  The song is huge live and Axl goes 100% on the vocals, it was one of the highlights of each show I went to in 2006, just a big and bad ass performance at all 3

[Jaakko]

Of all the leaks I have played to my friends, which include both heavy Slash-fans and average listeners, only The Blues has got praises. Catcher in the rye came close, but none of the other songs have gotten any notice.

I hope that possible first single is a You could be mine-type rocker, that's what gets attention.

[cfcsfc]

My point was that people who say the new material isn't good don't know what they're talking about or they are hanging onto the past.
...

My beef was with you talking about the new songs. They're great. Most people think they're great. But if you play them for your friends and they don't like them, it doesn't matter. Either they have poor taste or are jaded by the history of the album. Regardless of people having poor taste, if they see "Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy....." on TV with some boobs and shiny graphics or put a song on their favorite TV Show, they'll buy the album or at least download a song.

I was thinking about this the other day- when the new songs became 'available' I listened to them a ton and thought 'wow, this is the best thing I've heard for a long time' and played them more than the AFD or Illusion songs for a while. But very suddenly I stopped, went back to the older stuff without really realising it, and haven't listened to them much, if at all since (apart from on the boot of the show I went to).
And to be perfectly honest, I'm not really that fussed, even having relised that, nor do I feel compelled to listen to them again right away.
For me the novelty of new songs, along with the rose coloured glasses that came with them, has worne off, and in honesty, I havent really given them another thought.
Now, I can't wait for CD, because I can't wait for new music from one of my favorite bands. So I'm not 'jaded by the history of the album', in fact that history could have made me blindly love them. So does that mean I have poor taste according to you? I certainly don't think so, I think I have great taste in music (my oppinion of course!), and my taste is all that matters to me. So what is it then that has made me tire of the songs? Perhaps that they don't have the longevity of other, older songs to me. Perhaps they don't have the 'wow' factor of the older stuff, which has made them timeless.
Now, don't get me wrong. I like all of the new songs, and I like the current line up (it's the only one I've seen after all), and I loved the new songs when they first came out. But after a bit of time I have sort of 'gotten over' them.

Now, people who don't like the new songs 'don't know what they are talking about'? Who the hell are you, I, or anyone to dictate whoes oppinions, or musical tastes are correct? Or hanging onto the past? My good buddy is a GnR fan, but not a die hard- ie. he likes the songs, doesn't care about the history or line up. I got him to get the new stuff, and sure he thought it was good, but not up to the classics standard, nor do they get regular play. So what's his excuse then?
People not liking the new songs do matter. People aren't sheep. If they were they would have seen the sticker on Libertad and thought 'hmm, ex GnR guys new album' and got it, just because of the tag. But a lot of people didn't like the songs, and yep, it mattered.

It's going to take more than just 'boobs' and a GnR add on TV to sell the album. They do need a big hit(s) that can stand on its own merit and just not rely on the Guns N' Roses name tag. And I reckon Axl and the boys owe it to themselves to do that.

[Fingers]

I have friends who are casual fans-my brother went to 2 shows with me to see new GNR-I like the new band a lot, but the first single is going to have to be good otherwise this album could sink fast

[November_Rain]

Some people usually forget that what we have heard are unfinished demos not the definite tracks. These songs might have changed.

[Fingers]

I like the new songs, but they have to pick the one that is most radio friendly-they are not going to be marketing to us (the die hards)