Here Today... Gone To Hell!

As the years have gone by since 2008 I feel like Chinese Democracy has aged like a fine wine. I truly enjoy a majority of the album a couple of the songs I am eh on but 90% i think is amazing. I think this album is obviously a victim to who was and who wasn't on it. Had the big 3 been on this album I think their would have been alot more airplay on the radio and positive fan reaction but because it wasn't slash & duff and a bunch of people most probably had never heard of i.e. Robin Finke, Tommy Stinson, Bumblefoot, Chris Pitman and Buckethead. Which by the way I think Finke who had alot of presence on the album did an amazing job. We are still 5 yrs away from a 20yr anniversary but if GNR decided to release a version of Chinese Democracy with Slash & Duff what would people thoughts/feelings be?

No and the musicians had talent.  I already own that music.

No….it’s questionable as to how much Slash and Duff have added to the three songs they have released.

Any reissue of Chinese needs to be the versions written and recorded by the guys who wrote them. Respect needs to be shown for that era.

Just my opinion.

I agree with you I think they all did a great job and deserve to be recognized. Part of me will always be bothered that Mainstream will never acknowledge the greatness of this album even though I shouldn't be dictated by what mainstream a fair weather fans think.

Chinese Democracy needs no alterations.  I like the additions that Slash and Duff have made to live versions of the songs.  Time to move on and keep putting out new music.

It would be a nonsense, plus slash won't agree

I think the band need to move on, have a break, then go and record some new songs without all the bells and whistles. Just write, record, release then do another tour.

The remaining CD material could be released further down the road as a collectable, maybe. But the conversation, if nothing else, has to move on and look forward.

No.  Not even a little bit.

The album didn't land with the public.  It never will.  People just need to accept that reality.

Honestly, Slash and Duff would have been well within their right to tell Axl they weren't playing any of that shit they had nothing to do with.  But I feel they have been extremely accommodating in that regard.

My opinion is that that they are doing that for the fans.  The fans that hold CD in the same regard as the rest of the GNR catalog are the *extreme* minority.  But those people are also in those buildings, buying tickets.  Slash and Duff have elected to throw them that bone at the live shows.

But this thinking among segments of GNR fandom that CD is some misunderstood masterpiece that will one day get its due? 

Just not gonna happen.  Gotta make you peace with that.

You could say the same about any deep cuts. Coma? Fan favorite for sure. Does the majority of the crowd wait for it? Maybe, maybe not. They do want to hear Paradise City though.


Would it be interesting to hear a re-issue with different musicians? Well, if they wanna do it, sure. Will it happen? At this moment, I doubt it.




/jarmo

Put it this way. 

They brought 'Bad Obsession' and 'Pretty Tied Up' out of mothballs this tour.  Very well received.  On the last leg, they dug out 'Locomotive' and 'Dead Horse'.  People were excited.  As you said, 'Coma' (never a regular feature in their prime) went over HUGE with the fans as played most nights tune since the NITL tour.

They just pulled out 'Street Of Dreams' the other night, a rarity with Slash.  Any real reaction? 

Shit, they gave 'There Was A Time' a spin the other night.  I think it's the best thing on the whole CD album.  People go nuts for it?

I guess what I'm saying is that being a GNR fan has been nothing but amazing from 4/1/2016 onwards.  It's all been gravy.

Why this need to still try to make CD happen?  It came, it went, it failed.  Shit happens.  But call it what is.

Every big time actor has a passion project that flops.  Every name author has a novel he pours his heart and soul into that doesn't sell. 

Nature of the arts.  No one bats 1.000.

IDK, were you at the shows to compare the reaction across all the songs?

I think they need to release a LIVE album of the tour and feature some of the CD songs with the current line up. I would dig that very much! Not interested in a re recording of the album, especially not now that we are starving for new music!  :peace:

I think the way they are doing it now makes the most sense.

The last 3 singles were CD leftovers.  But only ever heard by diehard bootleg collectors like us.  Not like the general public ever heard 'Perhaps' until just now, even if a lot of us had the old demo for a few years prior.

So Slash and Duff are willing to put their stamp on the songs, and they can still plausibly be presented as "new".  I just don't think it works with official stuff already released.

That said, I like some of the changes they made to those CD tunes done live.  Like how on NITL, they had that whole other intro to 'Better'.  That was neat.

I've been on here for what seems like forever and hadn't heard perhaps before it's release, still not heard 'the general'

Only recordings I'd want of the current band playing CD tracks are if they decide to release another live album, in much the same way I had no desire to hear what the CD line up would do with AFD or UYI in the studio

I wouldn't re-do the studio album, I think that takes away from the musicians who were on it.   

But one way to do it is to have a live DVD or CD / Album with the Chinese Democracy  songs they have been playing on tour with Slash & Duff on them.

We didn't need a rerecording of AFD without the originals performers and we don't need a rerecording of CD without the originals performers.

I'm loving what we are getting from the current lineup and hoping for more. I don't care when a song was wrote or who wrote it. If it gets released as GnR I'm going to buy it, enjoy listening to it and then (and least importantly) looking at the writers, produces and players.

I’d be all for it,  just have the current band re-record the album and you could even use Axls old vocal tracks or he could do new ones ,why not ?  Also Axls re-record of Appetite is part of my holy grail along with all that documentary footage they shot on the Illusion tour.  I would love to hear the Appetite re-record , I loved the changes to Sweet Child from the Big Daddy credits. 

Once again, why not ?  Today things can just be released digitally either for purchase or streaming, I see a lot of good reasons and very  few bad ones to put this kind of stuff out.  The original Appetite is not going anywhere, it’s like it’s going to get deleted off the planet if the late 90s re-record sees the light of day. 

I think it's pretty obvious that Axl was never trying to get big mainstream attention with CD. It was his passion project. The album obviously doesn't have any big dumb choruses for the radio.

I want NEW and FRESH music, not something we heard before on leaks.

Did someone make you listen to leaks and ruin the surprise?





/jarmo

Yeah, I gotta agree with the Big Chief here.

I listen to any and all leaks the second they come out.  And that's on me.  I gotta own that and everything it entails.  Not a good faith argument to then claim there was no surprise.  I made that call, seeking out leaks.

I find leaks to be more pro than con with this band.

PRO

- Band produces content at a snail's pace, so might as well grab something to tide you over
- It would be impossible for me to sit here knowing there was new content out there I am actively not seeking out
- The fact I am some "bad fan" for listening to leaks is preposterous
- I know I am buying the eventual official release, regardless, so they will get my money

CON

- By the time the official release come out, there is no newness factor
- They take so long with releases, I can become conditioned to the leak/unreleased love version which I tend to prefer

Pros FAR out weight the cons here for me.

Only real con is my second one.  I truly believe that the 7 years I spend playing the RIR III live versions locked me into those versions of them.  And, as a result, I don't like the official versions a much.

I like CD the way it is - amazing musicians. Great album which represent Gn'R anno 2000s. I'd rather hear finished mixes of Absurd/Silkworms, Hard School and Perhaps with the 2000s line-up(s) - and of course new music made by the current line-up.

Sometimes I still sing the "OK never mind".

Don't forget; you could get hit by a bus tomorrow and never live to hear the final release.

Hahaha

Oh...*every* time, for this guy..

OK, well...hahaha.  A little bit darker than I was going with this.

But, honestly, your argument succeeds on its own merit. 

I love CD and listen to it often, even more so, since perhaps came out... All of a sudden some things make more sense... I think that with the General, state of grace, etc. it will attract more fans to CD at some point.
On the other hand, I think it is a bit hard core for most people... Its a bit too much, if you are not a big fan of GNR. I suppose it could be much easier to digest if it was re-recorded. The main thing is that we do have the original CD, which we can always go back to.  :beer:

Don't overthink it.

If you were doing a simple word association with the general public

Chinese Democracy = not real Guns N' Roses

I know we pride ourselves in the pretzels we twist ourselves into to make it otherwise.  That plays in GNR echo chambers, like this one here.  Nowhere else.

To the people, this was a miss.  Doesn't mean you can't dig it.  I, myself, did certain tunes off the album.

But I certainy think this waiting on the great re-evaluation of a forgotten masterpiece is a fool's errand.

LOL I've been having a crisis about mortality ever since I was like 15. :rofl: I try to use that as a reminder to live in the moment.

The thought first occurred to me in a discussion about bands hoarding unreleased material. What about all the fans who didn't live to see it get released?

It's a hard NO for me.

Classic Album no need to mess with it.