Donald Trump & 2016 Election

[pilferk]

Looks like Axl had similar thoughts on the Kanye summit yesterday (via his twitter):

What a joke. Not gonna solve anything in Chicago or anywhere else with any of that attention seeking nonsense.

Oh n’ don’t let any of this distract from the Khashoggi killing.

[pilferk]

Any thoughts on the first lady's that's today about being the most bullied woman in the world?

What do I think?

 

That's what I think.

I've no doubt she has it tough. And I certainly have some sympathy for her (she looks miserable every time she' with him).  But....the hyperbole isn't really going to do her any favors on this one, given her husbands propensity for it (and for lying).

And it's hard to take her seriously (or her internet bullying campaign) when her husband is an actual (frequent) bully...who she doesn't condemn.

[pilferk]

Apparently the price to get the US to look the other way (according to our President) when you murder a permanent US resident (he had to confirm this...since if it wasn't a US citizen and simply a Wapo journalist, that would make it 100% OK, right?) is 110 (fake) billion dollars.

Oh, and a promise to be your son in laws best friend.

Seriously? C'mon.....

I'm totally OK with "Lets wait to see what we can find out before we apply sanctions."  That's a totally acceptable response.

But "Remember, they're spending 110 billion on US military equipment [they're not, actually]" has no place in the conversation.  At all.

As disgusting as the whole "it's OK for 110 billion" is, it's more disgusting given the assertion is based on a lot of alternate facts (lies).

Just some more context:

That arms deal he keeps talking about: Super fake.

https://atlantareports.com/2018/10/11/trumps-110-billion-in-arms-sales-to-saudi-arabia-still-fake/

And on Trumps assertion (even if the deal were real) that they would buy somewhere else:

It would take the Saudis a decade or more to convert their existing military equipment over to a Russian or Chinese system.  And they don't have that kind of time given their presence in Yemen.

As we have become accustomed to: more lies.

[sandman]

only a liberal could criticize someone that says:

"We have to release the love throughout the entire country and give opportunities."   

So you're saying that one quote makes everything ok? You're easy to please.
He also said "slavery was a choice." Until he realized, it wasn't a good idea to say that out loud.





/jarmo

he did not mean that literally. he later clarified. and he apologized.

also, I don't think white people should try to control what black people have to say about their culture and communities. we could never understand how they feel. and if someone is trying to lead, get conversations started, and improve the lives of every day people, good for them.

LOL, that you don't even know how many black people are telling Kanye to STFU because he does not represent them is hilarious.

CNN has their marching orders to destroy his reputation.

Honest question, are you 14 years old?

why would you say I don't know many black people are telling him to quiet down? that is obvious. CNN has had every black commentator on TV ripping him. also, he is being a free thinker and challenging the group-think that blacks should automatically support dems and be against all republicans.

maybe he sees that under a black liberal president, the black communities did not improve. and that maybe some of the ideas that Trump is fighting for, such as controlling illegal immigration, is actually a great thing for poor communities.

and prison reform is an important issue to him. so maybe by working with the president and not just spreading hate, he can actually accomplish something. maybe get some prisoners released that have done more than their fair share of time. maybe get laws changed to address the problem. Trump is actually talking about this. how anyone can view this as a bad thing is beyond me.

and am I 14 years old? that's quite the insult gramdma.

[sandman]

Trump is clearly driving Axl crazy. SAD! funny that he would criticize someone trying to make a difference. and i'm surprised he has so negativity and trying to kill all hope.

has Axl ever done anything to help people? any involvement in any causes? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I know they played some benefit shows over the years, but can't think of anything philanthropy or other good that he's done. 

hopefully all this anger ends up inspiring some good music! 

[sandman]

not much coverage of this, but Trump spoke at the annual meeting of the Interagency Task Force to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons.

Trump is stepping up the fight against human trafficking. hopefully everyone is on board with this. if there is any initiative that we should all come together on, it is this one.

from the white house:

"My Administration will focus on ending the absolutely horrific practice of human trafficking.” President Donald J. Trump

ENDING HUMAN TRAFFICKING: President Donald J. Trump and his Administration are working to end the scourge of human trafficking, also known as modern slavery.
•Today, the President’s Interagency Task Force to Monitor and Combat Trafficking in Persons (PITF) met to discuss the Administration’s efforts to tackle human trafficking.
•The Task Force is a Cabinet-level entity, consisting of 15 departments and agencies, which work tirelessly to prosecute traffickers, protect survivors, and combat human trafficking.
•Members of the Advisory Council on Human Trafficking, comprised of survivor leaders appointed by the President, attended.
•The recipients of the 2018 Presidential Award for Extraordinary Efforts to Combat Trafficking in Persons were honored at the meeting.
•In April 2018, President Trump signed historic legislation into law to combat online sex trafficking, holding perpetrators accountable and ensuring justice for survivors.
•Last year, President Trump issued an Executive Order which directed his Administration to crack down on transnational criminal organizations that use human trafficking.
•Domestically, Federal agencies are ensuring full enforcement of our laws so that those who seek to exploit our people and break our laws face justice.
Last year:
•The Department of Justice secured convictions against nearly 500 defendants in human trafficking and the Federal Bureau of Investigation dismantled 42 criminal enterprises engaged in child sex trafficking.
•The Department of Homeland Security initiated over 800 human trafficking cases, resulting in 1,500 arrests, 530 convictions, and over 500 victims identified.
•The Department of Justice anti-trafficking grantees reported assisting more than 8,000 survivors between July 2016 and June 2017, greatly exceeding the past record.
•The Department of Health and Human Services modernized the National Human Trafficking Hotline.
•The United States is also taking the lead to end this crime internationally, as the largest donor of the Global Fund to End Modern Slavery.
•The Trump Administration is pushing back against authoritarian regimes to eliminate forced labor, sex trafficking, and the exploitation of children. •Human trafficking is very common under regimes lacking basic civil protections.
•The Administration is limiting the number of Tier 3 countries in the TIP Report that will receive national security waivers under the Trafficking Victims Protection Act.
•Human trafficking is often a hidden crime that knows no boundaries, impacting adults and children of all ages, backgrounds, and nationalities. •Reports of human trafficking come from every State.
•There are an estimated 24.9 million victims of human trafficking worldwide.
•Drug traffickers in Central and South America are increasingly engaging in human trafficking.

[tim_m]

Any thoughts on the first lady's that's today about being the most bullied woman in the world?

What do I think?

 

That's what I think.

I've no doubt she has it tough. And I certainly have some sympathy for her (she looks miserable every time she' with him).  But....the hyperbole isn't really going to do her any favors on this one, given her husbands propensity for it (and for lying).

And it's hard to take her seriously (or her internet bullying campaign) when her husband is an actual (frequent) bully...who she doesn't condemn.

Wasn't she a partner in crime with Trump on the birther bullshit?

[tim_m]

only a liberal could criticize someone that says:

"We have to release the love throughout the entire country and give opportunities."   

So you're saying that one quote makes everything ok? You're easy to please.
He also said "slavery was a choice." Until he realized, it wasn't a good idea to say that out loud.





/jarmo

he did not mean that literally. he later clarified. and he apologized.

also, I don't think white people should try to control what black people have to say about their culture and communities. we could never understand how they feel. and if someone is trying to lead, get conversations started, and improve the lives of every day people, good for them.

LOL, that you don't even know how many black people are telling Kanye to STFU because he does not represent them is hilarious.

CNN has their marching orders to destroy his reputation.

Honest question, are you 14 years old?

why would you say I don't know many black people are telling him to quiet down? that is obvious. CNN has had every black commentator on TV ripping him. also, he is being a free thinker and challenging the group-think that blacks should automatically support dems and be against all republicans.

maybe he sees that under a black liberal president, the black communities did not improve. and that maybe some of the ideas that Trump is fighting for, such as controlling illegal immigration, is actually a great thing for poor communities.

and prison reform is an important issue to him. so maybe by working with the president and not just spreading hate, he can actually accomplish something. maybe get some prisoners released that have done more than their fair share of time. maybe get laws changed to address the problem. Trump is actually talking about this. how anyone can view this as a bad thing is beyond me.

and am I 14 years old? that's quite the insult gramdma.

Assuming that can happen obviously that would be great. With the current congress though i have my doubts.

[sandman]

he did not mean that literally. he later clarified. and he apologized.

also, I don't think white people should try to control what black people have to say about their culture and communities. we could never understand how they feel. and if someone is trying to lead, get conversations started, and improve the lives of every day people, good for them.

no, I am not saying that one quote makes everything ok. in no way did I ever even suggest that. as I've pointed out before, you love to make false assumptions about people in a way that puts them in a negative light. you should be more positive in life. it will make you happier.   

but maybe I am easy to please. or maybe I simply believe in forgiveness. maybe you don't believe in 2nd chances, but I do.

Interesting. One one hand people shouldn't tell other people what they have to say. On the other hand your president is telling the media what they should say about him....

Personally I agree with you. But that extends to everyone. Not just white people.



When Obama tried to get conversations going, improve the lives of people, wasn't that considered a bad idea? He wanted to take away all your guns? Yet, he was trying to improve the lives of thousands of people.

I'm just curious to see how you think, because positive old me sees a guy who's quick to like Kanye because he's a pal of Trump now. No love yet? But dismisses others...
 



I think I'm pretty positive. Even in all this, I think that in order to appreciate something, you have to see the alternative. That's what we're seeing now.

Any thoughts on the first lady's that's today about being the most bullied woman in the world?

I guess it's not easy being her, or a male in the USA these days.

She could ask her husband about bullying.

Also, imagine if Michelle Obama had played the victim like this? 


Yes, people say insane things about her. And her husband. But it's not like the other side is any better..... Or were any better during the previous administration. Birthers etc.



/jarmo

No, trump is telling the media to be fair and honest. 90+% of media stories are negative towards him. FAR greater than all prior presidents.  

when Obama tried to get conversations going, it was a good thing. the gun issue is a bad example. when he talked about gun control, I think 90% of the people agreed with most of what he was saying. that's a large majority of people agreeing on something and very rare for a political topic. so not sure why you used this example. I will say that despite the 90% approval, Obama would preach about it in a way that made it seem people weren't on board. but he was just playing a game. he didn't have the balls to actually fight for that cause. and despite all the rhetoric, he never got a damn thing done about it.

I like what Kanye is saying. it's not just that he's friends with Trump. jared is trump's son-in-law, total MAGA, and I can't stand him.

[sandman]

and prison reform is an important issue to him. so maybe by working with the president and not just spreading hate, he can actually accomplish something. maybe get some prisoners released that have done more than their fair share of time. maybe get laws changed to address the problem. Trump is actually talking about this. how anyone can view this as a bad thing is beyond me.

and am I 14 years old? that's quite the insult gramdma.

Assuming that can happen obviously that would be great. With the current congress though i have my doubts.

you're right. it's going to be a challenge and I have my doubts as well. I hope trump really pushes for it and exposes anyone that serves as a major hurdle.

[pilferk]

Any thoughts on the first lady's that's today about being the most bullied woman in the world?

What do I think?

 

That's what I think.

I've no doubt she has it tough. And I certainly have some sympathy for her (she looks miserable every time she' with him).  But....the hyperbole isn't really going to do her any favors on this one, given her husbands propensity for it (and for lying).

And it's hard to take her seriously (or her internet bullying campaign) when her husband is an actual (frequent) bully...who she doesn't condemn.

Wasn't she a partner in crime with Trump on the birther bullshit?

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTx1ZODEcQ

[pilferk]

Interesting. One one hand people shouldn't tell other people what they have to say. On the other hand your president is telling the media what they should say about him....

/jarmo

Bingo on that last point.

What's really interesting about that is that...Trump admitted that "fake news" basically means "negative news" in a tweet awhile back.  So it's not that's its WRONG or factually inaccurate, it's that it's got a negative tone.

You'll see a ton of studies (Pew, Harvard, etc) that will all throw around these "90% negative news coverage" (and they mean on TV/radio, only news coverage, and not including partisan opinion pieces from people like Hannity or Maddow) conclusions that Conservative News outlets like Infowars, Breitbart, and Fox News love to toss around to rile up their base.

The problem is this: Their assumption that negative = wrong/fake/biased isn't borne out by any actual data.  It's a leap of logic (and a faulty one if you look at the studies).  If you read the studies, they weren't looking specifically at bias.  And they all mention that.  They were looking at TONE.  And an article like "McCain votes against ACA repeal...deals blow to Trump and Ryan" gets bucketed in to the negative column.  Now, there's nothing untrue about that headline.  There's nothing "fake" about what it reported.  But it reflects poorly on the administration/Trump, so it's considered negative.  Ditto with things like Trumps flip flopping on Charlottesville, his news conference with Putin (which everyone pretty much agrees was a disaster), every mention of the Mueller investigation, etc.  Since it reflects poorly on Trump, it goes into the negative bucket.

There's a couple of good "opinion" breakdowns of this phenomenon here (though some are a bit dated):

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2017/09/12/study-91-percent-of-recent-network-trump-coverage-has-been-negative/?utm_term=.98f956d67ad9

https://www.forbes.com/sites/markjoyella/2017/05/19/trumps-getting-killed-in-the-media-but-not-because-of-bias/#4fefa72a728e

https://www.npr.org/2017/10/02/555092743/study-news-coverage-of-trump-more-negative-than-for-other-presidents

The Pew study actually SPECIFICALLY mentions this issue and warns that any correlations between "negative" and "biased" were unsupported, statistically, in their study.  They also note that a LOT of the "negative" stories are related to personality/rallies/tweets/etc and not policy....which is what really starts to separate him from past presidents.  The fact this president tweets like it's his job (it isn't) and throws so much red meat (and so many lies) up on that platform means it pretty much HAS to be covered by the press.  What this boils down to is: Trumps news coverage is mostly negative because of Trump...and the fact he's not very presidential in tone or deed.

Repubs assert that, since it's SO MUCH HIGHER, it has to indicate bias.  That's just not so.  They can't wrap their heads around the fact this guy is just that much of an asshole, and says/does so much stupid shit (especially on twitter and at his rallies), that FACTUAL reporting happens to skew negative.  In essence, they can't admit the things they LIKE about him, that appeal to those base parts of their brains, are the things that skew the news coverage so much.

You hit the nail on the head: Trump wants more POSITIVE coverage. That's what he means when he calls the press the enemy of the people.  He doesn't care about "fair and balanced" or accurate (and, by proxy, neither does his base...they just want glowing Trump coverage 24/7...which is why they mostly watch Fox).  He just wants to be made to look good.  You can see that in his tweets, and his cherry picking of only talking about positive polls and numbers (or making up positive numbers that have no basis in reality). Hes perfectly willing to engage in massive hyperbole or to outright lie to make himself look good, and thats what he wants from the press. He wants to be deified...and anyone that refuses to fawn all over him and do that is the enemy. Simple as that.

[pilferk]

Assuming that can happen obviously that would be great. With the current congress though i have my doubts.

I'm all for prison reform (including lighter sentences for simple possession and use of illegal drugs)...and torte reform, too.

But Republicans have typically been against that, wanting tougher sentences for the things you and I would think deserve more minor sentence.  And more minor sentences for crimes you and I would likely think deserve stiffer penalties.

If Trump manged to change direction for the Repubs on that, it might be one of the first bipartisan things he's managed to get done. Looking at the judges he's appointed so far, though...it's hard to believe that this is anything he's considered all that much.

I also think he could probably manage bipartisan infrastructure bills, too, (which would help the economy, too) if he'd actually sit down and concentrate on it, rather than doing an "infrastructure week" every 6 months that gets sidetracked into something else.

I have little hope for progress on either issue....but we'll see.

[jarmo]

Trump is clearly driving Axl crazy. SAD! funny that he would criticize someone trying to make a difference. and i'm surprised he has so negativity and trying to kill all hope.

has Axl ever done anything to help people? any involvement in any causes? I can't think of anything off the top of my head. I know they played some benefit shows over the years, but can't think of anything philanthropy or other good that he's done. 

hopefully all this anger ends up inspiring some good music! 

Please. 

Here's an example: http://loudwire.com/axl-rose-teen-waitress-who-received-racist-note-acdc-concert/

No, trump is telling the media to be fair and honest.

If calling the media the enemies of the people is the same as asking them to be fair and honest, then saying "Fuck off!" can be the same as saying "No, thanks".

Seriously?

Is this your best apology for him? You seriously said he wants them to be honest? This is the same guy who lies, more than once since taking office..... Honest?

That's truly funny. I gotta admit that.

when Obama tried to get conversations going, it was a good thing. the gun issue is a bad example. when he talked about gun control, I think 90% of the people agreed with most of what he was saying. that's a large majority of people agreeing on something and very rare for a political topic. so not sure why you used this example. I will say that despite the 90% approval, Obama would preach about it in a way that made it seem people weren't on board. but he was just playing a game. he didn't have the balls to actually fight for that cause. and despite all the rhetoric, he never got a damn thing done about it.

Well, for one, it wasn't liked by the right wing. Since nothing happened, or did I miss something? As far as I remember, Congress didn't approve any new gun laws.....

Also, you can get conversations going in many ways. Some do it just to promote themselves.....



Imagine if Kanye and Trump talked about gun control though.... Wow!
I assume the NRA would be all excited about it!

Do you think it'll happen or will it be more of thoughts and prayers?





/jarmo

[GypsySoul]

What a joke. Not gonna solve anything in Chicago or anywhere else with any of that attention seeking nonsense.

I find it sad that anyone would think it "a joke" for someone to seek attention/shed light on the problems of violence, poverty, unemployment, drugs, etc. in inner-city Chicago (or anywhere).  Turning a blind eye to these issues is what's "not gonna solve anything"! 

 

Oh n’ don’t let any of this distract from the Khashoggi killing.

This tweet was posted literally within an hour of the broadcasted (on tv & the web) press conference by State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert on the matter.



Kanye West Clarifies 13th Amendment Tweet: Let's Amend, Not Abolish
(Section 1 of the amendment contains the wording that Kanye would like to see amended.)

Amendment XIII
Abolition of Slavery

Section 1

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

[tim_m]

and prison reform is an important issue to him. so maybe by working with the president and not just spreading hate, he can actually accomplish something. maybe get some prisoners released that have done more than their fair share of time. maybe get laws changed to address the problem. Trump is actually talking about this. how anyone can view this as a bad thing is beyond me.

and am I 14 years old? that's quite the insult gramdma.

Assuming that can happen obviously that would be great. With the current congress though i have my doubts.

you're right. it's going to be a challenge and I have my doubts as well. I hope trump really pushes for it and exposes anyone that serves as a major hurdle.

Possibly after the election. I expect both houses to look vastly different.

[tim_m]

Any thoughts on the first lady's that's today about being the most bullied woman in the world?

What do I think?

 

That's what I think.

I've no doubt she has it tough. And I certainly have some sympathy for her (she looks miserable every time she' with him).  But....the hyperbole isn't really going to do her any favors on this one, given her husbands propensity for it (and for lying).

And it's hard to take her seriously (or her internet bullying campaign) when her husband is an actual (frequent) bully...who she doesn't condemn.

Wasn't she a partner in crime with Trump on the birther bullshit?

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSTx1ZODEcQ

An actual immigrant claiming an actual citizen at birth wasn't a citizen. That's rich.

[PermissionToLand]

why would you say I don't know many black people are telling him to quiet down?

Because you said "I don't think white people should try to control what black people have to say about their culture", as if the people telling Kanye to shut up are all white. Derp.

maybe he sees that under a black liberal president, the black communities did not improve.

False. Black unemployment (Trump's favorite thing to take credit for) was decreasing AT A HIGHER RATE under Obama. Gee, it's almost like he's taking credit for the leftover effects of the black man's work!

I know reading FACTS is an anathema to you, but here, give it a good ole college try:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/us/politics/fact-check-trump-jobs-black-americans.html

and am I 14 years old? that's quite the insult gramdma.

"Grandma"... so you are 14 years old! Go back in your room and stop masturbating in your sister's bed, dammit!

[PermissionToLand]

This is the real "winning" Trump was dogwhistling for:

https://splinternews.com/pro-trump-proud-boys-mob-beats-up-protesters-outside-1829732540

And of course, cheating your compatriots out of massive amounts of money is also a form of "winning":

https://splinternews.com/jared-kushner-worth-over-300-million-didn-t-pay-fede-1829731188

[pilferk]

What a joke. Not gonna solve anything in Chicago or anywhere else with any of that attention seeking nonsense.

I find it sad that anyone would think it "a joke" for someone to seek attention/shed light on the problems of violence, poverty, unemployment, drugs, etc. in inner-city Chicago (or anywhere).  Turning a blind eye to these issues is what's "not gonna solve anything"!  

Except, I don't think that's what he was saying, or meant, Gypsy.

I think what Axl was saying (and I agree with him, if it is) was that particular instance wasn't calling attention to anything except how uncomfortable it was.  There was literally zero content to be derived from that 10 minute Kanye monologue. It was a "lunch" that turned into an incoherent manifesto delivered at a press event.  Any message he was trying to get across was completely obliterated by the manner, and method, he delivered it.

Something he has in common with our president, actually.

I don't think Axl finds "seeking attention/sheding light on the problems of violence, poverty, unemployment, drugs, etc. in inner-city Chicago (or anywhere)" to be a joke.

He found the method they tried to accomplish it to be a joke (and contrary to having any sort of effective dialogue about it).

Oh n’ don’t let any of this distract from the Khashoggi killing.

This tweet was posted literally within an hour of the broadcasted (on tv & the web) press conference by State Department spokesperson Heather Nauert on the matter.

Again, I suspect you're misreading it, here.

I don't think that last bit was addressed at Trump or Kanye or the US Govt.

It was addressed to "us", his followers.

And he's right.  The Kanye spectacle is/was far less important, and far less impactful long term, than the Khashoggi killing.  Kanye's...whatever that was....was a distraction (and I don't mean an intentional distraction for some purpose, I mean a distraction in terms of it's relative importance), the Khashoggi killing is an international issue.