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Title: Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: duga on March 23, 2004, 05:47:16 AM This is a comment to todays Velvet Revolver news:
'from a friend who works for a well known music mag...Geffen was presented with the finishe chi-dem disc on 3/1/04 after only 2 hours the disc and a note saying FIX THIS were returned to the bands reps....It seems Geffen found too many songs about news articles that the average guns fan would not remember nor care about. guns were given a 45 day deadline to present a " useable" finished cd or face a breech of contract etc.... the story goes on to say that neither the band nor geffen were available for comment at this time the a"rticle comes out next week in a major music publication' Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 05:51:45 AM WOW if there is any truth to this at all ... all i can say is WOW..
I wonder what magazine...can you post a link to this?? and what the fuck is "FIX THIS" Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Cristina on March 23, 2004, 05:57:00 AM That sounds... weird.
Excuse my complete ignorance on the matter... but IF a cd was delivered, can it be a breech of contract? Does a contract say a "useable" cd? :confused: Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 05:58:32 AM never mind the link i found it... im gonna email this dude and see what i can find out.....
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: norway on March 23, 2004, 05:58:46 AM Wasn't the master good enough?
Do they wan't to recreate oldgnr style? Sounds like something that's coming from blabbermouth... oh wait, it IS something from blabbermouth. Hope GH will not delay CD afterall. If this didn't happened before though Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: twitcher on March 23, 2004, 06:02:28 AM This is a comment to todays Velvet Revolver news: 'from a friend who works for a well known music mag...Geffen was presented with the finishe chi-dem disc on 3/1/04 after only 2 hours the disc and a note saying FIX THIS were returned to the bands reps....It seems Geffen found too many songs about news articles that the average guns fan would not remember nor care about. guns were given a 45 day deadline to present a " useable" finished cd or face a breech of contract etc.... the story goes on to say that neither the band nor geffen were available for comment at this time the a"rticle comes out next week in a major music publication' to me (who knows nothing) that sounds a load of crap. since when do record companies have any editorial control over the subject of songs, unless is perverted or paedophilia etc. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 06:08:25 AM I emailed the dude and asked him what magazine it would be in... sounds like bullshit but if its even 1/10th true...
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Izzy on March 23, 2004, 06:13:36 AM Sounds very strange....and very implausible
Why would Geffen care what the songs were about? Old articles? Is every song like get in the ring? :hihi: File under 'B' for bullshit Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: duga on March 23, 2004, 06:24:45 AM Sounds very strange....and very implausible Why would Geffen care what the songs were about? Old articles? Is every song like get in the ring? :hihi: File under 'B' for bullshit Of course its bullshit, but it is interesting enough to mention here. :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: John Daniels on March 23, 2004, 06:58:01 AM Geffen would refuse to accept the songs like Madacascar, The Blues, Chinese Democracy (and the big guns) ?? ??? It's bullshit!!
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: matt88 on March 23, 2004, 07:03:00 AM Geffen would refuse to accept the songs like Madacascar, The Blues, Chinese Democracy (and the big guns) ?? ??? It's bullshit!! Good point :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 23, 2004, 07:41:33 AM This is a comment to todays Velvet Revolver news: 'from a friend who works for a well known music mag...Geffen was presented with the finishe chi-dem disc on 3/1/04 after only 2 hours the disc and a note saying FIX THIS were returned to the bands reps....It seems Geffen found too many songs about news articles that the average guns fan would not remember nor care about. guns were given a 45 day deadline to present a " useable" finished cd or face a breech of contract etc.... the story goes on to say that neither the band nor geffen were available for comment at this time the a"rticle comes out next week in a major music publication' B.S. And, furthermore, whoever "created" the rumor knows little about recording industry contracts. If CD was delivered to the label, whether the label liked the material or not, means they can not sue for breech. They can excercise the "first right of refusal" clause...that's certainly their right (meaning, they can pass on publishing the material), but they can not sue for breech. GnR would have satisfied the stips of the contract. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Jonx on March 23, 2004, 08:15:08 AM Sounds like crap, not that i know anything about record labels though!
While we are on the record label subject, i found this interview with Travis Barker, he sheds some light on Geffen and the way in which they conduct their buisness, its quite interesting and maybe sheds some light on why Axl has been allowed to take ages on his record. Here is an extract from the article, the bold text is what i found most interesting: Bobby: Blink182 have been through many bumps since Take Off Your Pants And Jacket. You almost broke up after Tom's back injury and with Box Car Racer. How did you battle through all those troubles? Travis: We were never ever going to break up. There were rumors, people started rumors when me and Tom did Box Car but people have got to understand that Box Car was an experiment. Like we were never supposed to even tour. What happens is "The Monster" started happening, which was MCA, which we're not on anymore. But we wanted to put out a record, that's all. Like let us put out a fucking record and let people hear this music. But of course, the record label, a major record label like MCA with a dick head for a president, Jay Bovark thinks: "They have to tour this record because we have to make money." And all this bull shit. No, it was just supposed to be a record and they fucked up and had to do other stuff. But thank God for our new label. Like that's one thing I have to say about Geffen: Geffen is the coolest record label I've ever dealt with in my whole life. Man, those people gave us no deadline with our new record, let us do our own artwork, let us pick who we want to do our videos, pick our singles; like that's the way it should be. They never talked to us about money, politics, all that bull shit that we don't want to hear about anyway. We just want to be creative, you know what I mean? You never want to walk into a record label meeting and talk about your record and have someone tell you how much records you need to sell in order for them to be happy. Where as that's what Jay Bovark at MCA would do. I used to walk out of meetings, like in the middle of a meeting I would just walk out because I couldn't stand hearing bull shit from somebody like that. You know what I mean? This is certainly a possible explaination as to why the new album is taking so long who knows? Just thought i would post it as it is slightly relevant James Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: EET_FUK on March 23, 2004, 09:10:10 AM More than likely BS...but could it could be Geffens' way of burying Axl for all his shit over the years. I can see it so clearly in my head...it goes like this:
Axl walks into the Geffen offices, CD in hand, whislting the melody from "The General" and a BIG smile on his face. He goes "Here it is...7 years of blood, sweat, tears, botox and frozen snicker ice cream bars." 70 minutes later, the all-knowing record company execs hand CD back to Axl and say "This is unacceptable. Please go back to the studio and fix this crap...you have 2 months!!" Axl procedes to kill everyone in the room then himself. And the world will NEVER hear Chinese Democracy. THE END. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 23, 2004, 09:30:49 AM Playing to the pretense that this is true:
1. I think it's obvious that an album called Chinese Democracy is going to be a political album, very thick with a decade of newsworthy inferences. I would expect nothing else. And you know that the "label" would know ahead of time what to expect. 2. Axl and Geffen have been taking stubborn blows to each other throughout 2004. One party says "finish, or we'll put out the GH". The other party says "If you put out the GH, then we'll procrastinate even further". Now that the GH is already out, Geffen takes the next blow, by insulting Chinese Democracy. Whether its buying time, for more GH hype and sales, or whether its just petty insults to Axl, who knows. Playing to the pretense this is not true: 1. It's Blabbermouth. They did write about Bucketheads departure before it was published anywhere else....BUT they've also made very careless GNR mistakes before. 2. Where the hell does Geffen fit into "approving" anything with this album?!? This should be strictly Sanctuary/Interscope/Universal (correct?). Geffen, of course, had the Greatest Hits, but I don't see how Geffen has anything to do with Chinese Democracy. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: TyRod Tulip on March 23, 2004, 09:49:06 AM Well, I find it hard to believe that a record company that has put, by some accounts, $13 million into this project hasn't heard the material before now. As a matter of fact, there is no way in hell anyone or any company puts up $13 million and doesn't have rights to review the progress of the project.
This rumour is bullshit, but I still believe that maybe part of it is true. That being that the contect of CD just isn't good enough yet to release. I know I keep coming back to this, but I cannot figure out any other plausible reason why the material hasn't been released yet except for the fact that someone (Axl or Geffen) just doesn't think it is very good. -TyRod- Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Izzy on March 23, 2004, 09:56:50 AM Quote This rumour is bullshit, but I still believe that maybe part of it is true. That being that the contect of CD just isn't good enough yet to release. I know I keep coming back to this, but I cannot figure out any other plausible reason why the material hasn't been released yet except for the fact that someone (Axl or Geffen) just doesn't think it is very good. To be fair i can kinda understand the delays - i'm trawling through 5 essays for my degree, and even when their done u keep going over and over them again to try and improve them - the stakes are high, and for Axl their astronomical The material is most likley great, but when there's that seed of doubt in your mind it never seems that way. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: SLCPUNK on March 23, 2004, 10:31:08 AM This is a no brainer.
Somebody needs to send this BS rumor back to the person who started it and tell them to "Fix it". Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 23, 2004, 10:33:47 AM 1. I think it's obvious that an album called Chinese Democracy is going to be a political album I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. I would imagine that Geffen would be happy to get anything finished at this point, and whatevers on there cant possibly be bad enough to send back to the drawing board. I doubt they care about the actual music as long as theres three good singles. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: madagas on March 23, 2004, 10:37:27 AM You already have three decent singles in the Blues, Maddy, and Chinese. All three could be radio songs. I believe the Blues and Maddy are better ballads than Like a Stone and I am the Highway by Audioslave, both of which get tons of airplay. Let's just face it, Axl is too fucked up and unstable to let go of the album....quality of material will not be an issue in my opinion.
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 10:43:39 AM The Rumored song OKLAHOMA
It was supposed to be about the bombing of the Oklahoma city building. That could be something that is political that nobody cares about anymore... and if he has written anything about 9/11 id say people dont want to hear about that on Chinese Democracy as well... Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 23, 2004, 10:53:04 AM You already have three decent singles in the Blues, Maddy, and Chinese. All three could be radio songs. I believe the Blues and Maddy are better ballads than Like a Stone and I am the Highway by Audioslave, both of which get tons of airplay. Let's just face it, Axl is too fucked up and unstable to let go of the album....quality of material will not be an issue in my opinion. I dont see any of those songs being singles. Well, successful singles at least. "The Blues" would be the closest, but theres no way it would work as a single, especially in todays musical climate. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: DazRose85 on March 23, 2004, 10:58:48 AM Is it possible that the record company is pushing this album to be "bigger" than Axl has been? Perhaps Axl just wants to make a good solid album while Geffen are looking for him to make the album - history makin' stuff?
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 23, 2004, 11:05:46 AM Is it possible that the record company is pushing this album to be "bigger" than Axl has been? Perhaps Axl just wants to make a good solid album while Geffen are looking for him to make the album - history makin' stuff? No. If Axl just wanted to make a good solid album, it would have been done a long time ago. And from all accounts, Axl is not about just making a good, solid album. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 11:10:11 AM There should be a story on this rumor in Spin mag in 2 weeks... Guess that will prove how far the mag is willing to go with this story....
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Eazy E on March 23, 2004, 11:18:50 AM 2. Where the hell does Geffen fit into "approving" anything with this album?!? This should be strictly Sanctuary/Interscope/Universal (correct?). Geffen, of course, had the Greatest Hits, but I don't see how Geffen has anything to do with Chinese Democracy. Ummm.... Geffen is their record label? As a parallel, that would be like saying, "What the hell does Shady Records have to do with Obie Trice's album?" Quote I believe the Blues and Maddy are better ballads than Like a Stone and I am the Highway by Audioslave, both of which get tons of airplay. Suprisingly, I like both of those Audioslave songs BETTER than The Blues and Madagscar. I never really thought about it until you mentioned them though. As far as "Oklahoma" goes, I thought that song had something to do with Erin? Something along the lines of them being in court, and Axl thought it was insignificant compared to what had just happened. Maybe I'm just making that up though. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: the dirt on March 23, 2004, 11:31:26 AM I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. Chinese Democracy is a political song, for the most part. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 23, 2004, 11:34:13 AM I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. Chinese Democracy is a political song, for the most part. Really? Maybe you can explain the politics behind it? Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: HoldenCaulfield on March 23, 2004, 12:01:00 PM LMAO! Nowhere in a recording contract does it state "You must present a 'good' record.", otherwise half the shit that's released today wouldn't be available.
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: madagas on March 23, 2004, 12:21:37 PM Booker, the Blues is a perfect VH1 type of song...possible crossover hit with pop stations. Certainly not a modern rock radio song for the younger generation, but a song for old fuckers like me in their mid 30's. The other two COULD be singles but they are obviously not ideal for radio. I assume that is why Axl says the songs they have played live WON'T be singles. I still think they are easily as good as 99% of the crap on radio-any format-today. I regards to Chinese Democracy being a political song, give me a break. If someone can give me an INTELLIGENT explanation of the meaning of the song I will listen. But, I have heard the song a zillion times and still can't figure out what the hell he is talking about. Quite frankly, I don't think the lyrics are that good-certainly not on the level of Civil War. Nice riff, very average lyrics. ;D
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: alwaysoutparading on March 23, 2004, 12:31:35 PM Even if the songs are about specific news events, since when have Axl's lyrics been so overtly obvious about one thing? I don't believe it simply because from what I know about his song writing style, he's usually very vague and sticks to mostly emotions, not events.
On the other hand, since he probably hasn't been partying and doing drugs in the last 10 years, I think a lot of the songs probably will be political or influenced by world events. I still think he'll write about how it makes him feel and it'll be hard to tell exactly what event he's talking about (except for Oklahoma). Either way, do you really think Geffen would refuse CD??? no way Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 23, 2004, 12:55:31 PM Booker, the Blues is a perfect VH1 type of song...possible crossover hit with pop stations. Certainly not a modern rock radio song for the younger generation, but a song for old fuckers like me in their mid 30's. The other two COULD be singles but they are obviously not ideal for radio. I assume that is why Axl says the songs they have played live WON'T be singles. I still think they are easily as good as 99% of the crap on radio-any format-today. I regards to Chinese Democracy being a political song, give me a break. If someone can give me an INTELLIGENT explanation of the meaning of the song I will listen. But, I have heard the song a zillion times and still can't figure out what the hell he is talking about. Quite frankly, I don't think the lyrics are that good-certainly not on the level of Civil War. Nice riff, very average lyrics. ;D CD is, I think, about his relationship with the old band members and the bands breakup. I think the song's title is very much a reference to the fact that the old bandmates saw GnR as a "Chinese Democracy", as in, it wasn't REALLY a democracy at all, but a dictatorship....and CD is Axl's response to that charge. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: D on March 23, 2004, 01:10:39 PM this is actually very possible, watch the making of pump by aerosmith they explain the whole deal, they have to make a cd that is approved by the label, a cd that has so many certain songs the company thinks the public will buy or they have to redo shit
it took them forever to release nine lives cause the record label thought it was shit so sorry guys but this is very very possible Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: madagas on March 23, 2004, 01:11:28 PM Pilferk, possibly, sounds plausible, and I do agree that Chinese Democracy is a perfect name and description of Axl's new "project". ;D
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 23, 2004, 01:58:45 PM this is actually very possible, watch the making of pump by aerosmith they explain the whole deal, they have to make a cd that is approved by the label, a cd that has so many certain songs the company thinks the public will buy or they have to redo shit it took them forever to release nine lives cause the record label thought it was shit so sorry guys but this is very very possible I have seen that same documentary... The Band was all fucking nervous coz the Label Rep was coming to "judge the marketablity of the songs" I very much remember seeing Steven Tyler and Joe Perry sitting there while some suit was played thier hard work and gave it i yes or no.. He said things like, "add guitar here" or "do you need to repeat the chorus 3 times" ... Things like that.... If it can happen to Aerosmith....hmmmm Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: GnrAxl4life on March 23, 2004, 02:13:27 PM since when do record companies have any editorial control over the subject of songs, unless is perverted or paedophilia etc.
Quote Record companies have full editorial control over songs. If they dont like it then its back to the drawing board. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Dont Try Me on March 23, 2004, 02:30:18 PM Booker, the Blues is a perfect VH1 type of song...possible crossover hit with pop stations. Certainly not a modern rock radio song for the younger generation, but a song for old fuckers like me in their mid 30's. The other two COULD be singles but they are obviously not ideal for radio. I assume that is why Axl says the songs they have played live WON'T be singles. I still think they are easily as good as 99% of the crap on radio-any format-today. I regards to Chinese Democracy being a political song, give me a break. If someone can give me an INTELLIGENT explanation of the meaning of the song I will listen. But, I have heard the song a zillion times and still can't figure out what the hell he is talking about. Quite frankly, I don't think the lyrics are that good-certainly not on the level of Civil War. Nice riff, very average lyrics. ;D CD is, I think, about his relationship with the old band members and the bands breakup. I think the song's title is very much a reference to the fact that the old bandmates saw GnR as a "Chinese Democracy", as in, it wasn't REALLY a democracy at all, but a dictatorship....and CD is Axl's response to that charge. Axl spoke about the song at Vegas, House of Blues where he explained it a little bit. If I remember correctly it was politically. I had the song and speech on my computer but don't have it anymore. But I'm sure someone has the transcript somewhere :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 23, 2004, 02:37:34 PM 1. I think it's obvious that an album called Chinese Democracy is going to be a political album I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. ... ::) No, not at all :rofl: Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Chief on March 23, 2004, 03:35:24 PM sounds like a bunch of crap to me!
and by the way, audioslave definitely doesnt compare to Guns! Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: C0ma on March 23, 2004, 04:25:06 PM sounds like a bunch of crap to me! You're absolutly right, Audioslave put out a CD in the last ten years......how can you expect Guns N' Roses to compare to that.... :hihi:and by the way, audioslave definitely doesnt compare to Guns! Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 23, 2004, 06:31:02 PM 1. I think it's obvious that an album called Chinese Democracy is going to be a political album I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. ... ::) No, not at all :rofl: Then like Ive asked already, please enlighten me with the songs politics. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: noizzynofuture on March 23, 2004, 06:36:24 PM I doubt it. The title track isnt political and none of the other songs have been political. Chinese Democracy is a political song, for the most part. Really? Maybe you can explain the politics behind it? I can't say I understand the whole song as is the case with most of Axl's songs ??? but references to politcal groups (Falun Gong)who are being persecuted in China would definitely be considered political. I also think there are references to Tianamen Square and the persecution of political prisoners who "if you beat'em enough they'll die" Sure i'm reading into this but I'd love to know what your thoughts are Booker. I don't think you're listening to the song objectively if you see no political references. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: loretian on March 23, 2004, 06:44:09 PM Sure i'm reading into this but I'd love to know what your thoughts are Booker. I don't think you're listening to the song objectively if you see no political references. I don't see Chinese Democracy as being political. Just because there's political references doesn't make it a political song. It seems more like he's relating the politics/social conditions of China to himself, in some way, than anything else (as far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure on the meaning of the whole song). I just don't see you can think it's political. Just my 2 cents, don't mean to get in the middle of your conversation. :peace: Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: younggunner on March 23, 2004, 06:50:43 PM Quote I dont see any of those songs being singles. Well, successful singles at least. "The Blues" would be the closest, but theres no way it would work as a single, especially in todays musical climate. I agree. Actually I agree with both of you. CD,Maddy and the blues are excellent songs and are a lot better than some of the songs out there. With that being said, they are not single type songs for this band to launch. They arent impact songs. They are songs that help make an album great. The single for gnr have to be classic type stuff. Full blown rockers. So I agree those 3 are excellent and a lot better than the singles out there but being that they have to come out with a bang these arent the songs to do so. And stop saying cd is a political song. Its not. Axl said at vegas that its not supposed to be a smart/important song. As for this dumb rumor. When will you people learn to stop believeing this crap? Use common sense. This shit keeps coming up becaus elook how you peopel analyze the garbage. The people that make this up must get a fukin kick out of it. I would slap the fuck out of them but thats for another day. Rio4 is a very important day in the future of gnr. Till then im not believeing anything. Shoot them down bucket Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 23, 2004, 08:07:58 PM Sure i'm reading into this but I'd love to know what your thoughts are Booker. I don't think you're listening to the song objectively if you see no political references. I don't see Chinese Democracy as being political. Just because there's political references doesn't make it a political song. It seems more like he's relating the politics/social conditions of China to himself, in some way, than anything else (as far as I can tell, I'm not quite sure on the meaning of the whole song). I just don't see you can think it's political. Just my 2 cents, don't mean to get in the middle of your conversation. :peace: I agree. I think the political "stuff" is being used as an allegory. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Will on March 23, 2004, 10:26:44 PM That rumour is dumb...I can't believe Blabbermouth is even posting that on their site. There is just no way it can be even remotely likely in the twilight zone...!
Axl himself said the song Chinese Democracy wasn't political (during his rant between Rhiad and CD in Las Vegas, 01.01.2001). Oklahoma is not political either I think...I may be mistaken but I've read somewhere Axl saying it was about his lawsuits at the time (with Everly or Seymour I believe) and how the whole situation was dumb compared to the dozens of people who had died in that bomb explosion in Oklahoma. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 23, 2004, 10:53:38 PM Uhhhmmm...sheesh, can't believe I'm coming back to this again. For crying out loud, we have 4 songs, and THREE of them are about political movements abroad. And are even TITLED such. Whether they are "allegorical" is irrelevant. These are political images bevied up to convey whatever point he is making.
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Eazy E on March 23, 2004, 11:08:24 PM Oklahoma is not political either I think...I may be mistaken but I've read somewhere Axl saying it was about his lawsuits at the time (with Everly or Seymour I believe) and how the whole situation was dumb compared to the dozens of people who had died in that bomb explosion in Oklahoma. I already said that!! You motherfucking asshole!! Everyone pay attention to me dammit. :rant: :P Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Will on March 23, 2004, 11:21:57 PM I already said that!! You motherfucking asshole!! Sorry man, no need to insult me! :peace: I didn't see your post about that! Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Eazy E on March 23, 2004, 11:58:13 PM Sorry man, no need to insult me! :peace: I didn't see your post about that! :P = I'm not serious. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: grog mug on March 24, 2004, 12:13:10 AM I try to read in to this post with a little bit of belief behind the rumor. But when you guys get in fights its fucking funny were on the internet pecking letters lets be badasses! LOL, anyway Chinese Democracy was written based off a movie Axl had seen about the gov't/democracy is caused. One of these rumors has to turn out true, don't you think SOMETHING will be released before RIR4?
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: killingvector on March 24, 2004, 12:18:31 AM Assuming this is true, the label rejected the album and then put out the GH because CD was not in releaseable form. That seems pretty shady for a record company to do; I think if they believed the album was 2 months away from being ready to press, they wouldn't have gone ahead with the GH unless they were fed up with Axl and wanted to milk every last cent out of him. Which of course is very likely. Delay CD to get some cash for the GH to help balance the budget. The rumor is plausible but if true it really demonstrates a breakdown in the relationship between Axl and his record company.
BTW, axl fires back two weeks later with a lawsuit. He must have breached the contract with Geffon to lose out so quickly. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: SlashFan on March 24, 2004, 12:19:51 AM This is a comment to todays Velvet Revolver news: 'from a friend who works for a well known music mag...Geffen was presented with the finishe chi-dem disc on 3/1/04 after only 2 hours the disc and a note saying FIX THIS were returned to the bands reps....It seems Geffen found too many songs about news articles that the average guns fan would not remember nor care about. guns were given a 45 day deadline to present a " useable" finished cd or face a breech of contract etc.... the story goes on to say that neither the band nor geffen were available for comment at this time the a"rticle comes out next week in a major music publication' It's all bullshit,most of the shit people have been posting on here is bullshit.Some of this stuff just makes me sick,I hate it! >:( Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: oneway23 on March 24, 2004, 01:00:08 AM Something doesn't have to be overtly political. The songs all have political undertones as reflections of personal situations...done
Some aspects of the latest attempt to get a rise out of the ever-willing GNR fanbase might be true, but it's basically a diamond surrounded by manure... :beer: Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 24, 2004, 06:12:16 AM Uhhhmmm...sheesh, can't believe I'm coming back to this again. For crying out loud, we have 4 songs, and THREE of them are about political movements abroad. And are even TITLED such. Whether they are "allegorical" is irrelevant. These are political images bevied up to convey whatever point he is making. So you cant explain the politics of these songs? Didnt think so. : ok: Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: twitcher on March 24, 2004, 06:15:15 AM Uhhhmmm...sheesh, can't believe I'm coming back to this again. For crying out loud, we have 4 songs, and THREE of them are about political movements abroad. And are even TITLED such. Whether they are "allegorical" is irrelevant. These are political images bevied up to convey whatever point he is making. So you cant explain the politics of these songs? Didnt think so. : ok: I bet the fucker is still banned in China though :-\ (with the exception of the Special Administrative Regions of Hong Kong and Macau and the renegade province of Taiwan - for those pedants :smoking:) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 08:36:02 AM Uhhhmmm...sheesh, can't believe I'm coming back to this again. For crying out loud, we have 4 songs, and THREE of them are about political movements abroad. And are even TITLED such. Whether they are "allegorical" is irrelevant. These are political images bevied up to convey whatever point he is making. Fist off, we have 5 new songs (Silkworms, Rhiad, Maddy, The Blues, and CD). Second, I think saying 3 are political is a BIG stretch. Rhiad, from what I remember, refers to an Islamic folk story (thought I could be wrong..I've never been sure..Edit: I'm wrong..found the reference...I'd say this one is political...or Axl's reaction to them, anyway), Madagascar is simply the name of a country, and, while CD makes passing reference to some political factions and terminology, it's pretty obvious it's an allegorical reference to things going on in Axl's life. And Third, I think it's VERY important that the song being called "political" is actually an allegory. It pretty much means it's NOT political, even though it might appear to be at first glance. That's the whole point.... So, at most...you've got ONE actual political song (Rhiad), one that appears to be political, but isn't, and one that's got a country for a title.... Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 08:39:40 AM Assuming this is true, the label rejected the album and then put out the GH because CD was not in releaseable form. That seems pretty shady for a record company to do; I think if they believed the album was 2 months away from being ready to press, they wouldn't have gone ahead with the GH unless they were fed up with Axl and wanted to milk every last cent out of him. Which of course is very likely. Delay CD to get some cash for the GH to help balance the budget. The rumor is plausible but if true it really demonstrates a breakdown in the relationship between Axl and his record company. BTW, axl fires back two weeks later with a lawsuit. He must have breached the contract with Geffon to lose out so quickly. Not true. The lawsuit was not dismissed..he didn't lose. The judge obviously thinks the case has merit, else he would have thrown it out. However, he must not see a compelling reason to issue a restraining order/injunction. There could be a bunch of reasons for that. But NOTHING that's happened so far in the lawsuit would indicate, on any level, that Axl/Gnr have breeched their contract. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: madagas on March 24, 2004, 08:43:16 AM Rhiad is about Axl too..."all my salvation....all my frustration...caught in the lies......I don't give a fuck bout them cause I am crazy!" I still think Rhiad may be Oklahoma as well. Erin doesn't give a fuck about what happened in Oklahoma because Axl is crazy.....see the Rolling Stone article about what Oklahoma is about. David Wild article from dec 99/ or jan 00.
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 08:47:12 AM Rhiad is about Axl too..."all my salvation....all my frustration...caught in the lies......I don't give a fuck bout them cause I am crazy!" I still think Rhiad may be Oklahoma as well. Erin doesn't give a fuck about what happened in Oklahoma because Axl is crazy.....see the Rolling Stone article about what Oklahoma is about. David Wild article from dec 99/ or jan 00. Yup, found the reference finally (thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh). I edited my original post. That song is political, and Axl's reaction to something political, I think. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Will on March 24, 2004, 09:26:47 AM (thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh). Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad": http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg (http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg) We just use the spelling the band is using! :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 09:35:08 AM (thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh). Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad": http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg (http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg) We just use the spelling the band is using! :) Yeah, I know..thankfully, Jarmo has it spelled BOTH ways on the main site. Once I used the "real" spelling, I was able to turn up the references....which is probably why I'd never been able to find them before. :) I've always used the Rhiad spelling, too. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Lineker10 on March 24, 2004, 09:35:09 AM (thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh). Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad": http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg (http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg) We just use the spelling the band is using! :) That could of been printed up by anyone though - mabye not Axl or any other band member. Look how "Out Ta Get Me" is spelt "Out To Get Me" Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 09:52:28 AM Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political.
And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!? And you don't think that reason has any political undertone at all? Booker - I don't understand you're question. What's your definition of "political"? And as far as Riyadh vs. Rhiad.....the spelling of the actual geographical place is Riyadh, of course the capital of Saudi Arabia. But isn't the only source of the Rhiad spelling from a setlist at the Vegas show? And doesn't a roadie make the setlists? I doubt that's the official spelling of the song. Who knows??! (http://www.theodora.com/maps/new/saudia2.gif) and here's some bedouins... (http://www.travel-images.com/saudi-arabia61_r.jpg)(http://www.travel-images.com/saudi-arabia63.jpg) And here's the latest news articles involving Riyadh and Bedouins: http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=riyadh+bedouins&sa=N&tab=wn Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: jarmo on March 24, 2004, 09:55:23 AM And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!? Madagascar used to be part of Africa until it broke away and shifted out in to the ocean. Africa - band, Madagascar - one member of the band? /jarmo Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 24, 2004, 10:04:18 AM Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political. Booker - I don't understand you're question. What's your definition of "political"? Since you so firmly believe that these are political songs, Im asking you to explain the politics of these songs. What are the political viewpoints being expressed? The answer, of course, is that there are none. Axl himself has basically explained that he chose the title "Chinese Democracy" because he likes the sound of it, and that its not an "intelligent song," its not answering any questions, and its not "pro or con about China". These are his words, yet youre so brilliant that you roll your eyes when I point out that these songs are non-political. All of the lyrics in these songs suggest nothing other than Axls personal emotions and feelings. But like I said, grasp at those straws and prove me wrong with an explanation of what makes these songs political. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 10:10:40 AM Ok, what images is Axl using to convey his personal emotions and feelings?
What does he compare it to? Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 10:11:31 AM Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political. And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!? And you don't think that reason has any political undertone at all? Madagascar is the name of a country. It physically broke away from Africa, drifted off the coast, and became an island.....I can't, for the life of me, see how that has anything to do with politics. And again, Axl is using Madagascar as a metaphor....he's not actually TALKING about Madagascar. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 24, 2004, 10:15:02 AM Ok, what images is Axl using to convey his personal emotions and feelings? What does he compare it to? Quote grasp at those straws If you cant offer an explanation to back yourself up, then this discussion is finished. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 10:25:46 AM Wow! You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy.
It's simple, Axl uses political images to either #1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc #2 make a political comment Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less. But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Will on March 24, 2004, 10:25:50 AM That could of been printed up by anyone though - mabye not Axl or any other band member. Look how "Out Ta Get Me" is spelt "Out To Get Me" If I remember correctly, the management confirmed the new tracks to the press after the HOB show in 2001, and they spelled it "Rhiad". Of course no one knows if it's gonna be spelled like this in case the song is on the album, but I tend to think it would be the case. As for the political meanings of the songs, of course Rhiad and CD have political titles but I don't really see any political point of view in the lyrics though...That doesn't mean there will be no political song on the record. I've got the feeling Axl wrote something about 9.11. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 10:36:44 AM Wow! You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy. It's simple, Axl uses political images to either #1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc #2 make a political comment Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less. But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox. No, it's not..at least not in a literary sense. That's the whole point of allegory. Chinese Democracy is fiction..it doesn't exist. Sure, it's a political concept, but it's one used to convey a non-political message. The song is not political..it doesn't talk about politics at all....any more than "Maddy" talks about Madagascar. Axl uses metaphors constantly in his lyrics....CD is just another example of that. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 10:40:03 AM If Axl uses metaphors, then he's clearly using political metaphors.
Quote po?lit?i?cal Function: adjective 1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government No matter what angle you choose to look at it, it's still a political song. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 10:44:49 AM If Axl uses metaphors, then he's clearly using political metaphors. Quote po?lit?i?cal Function: adjective 1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government No matter what angle you choose to look at it, it's still a political song. Thanks so much for proving my point...For the song to be a "political song", it would mean the song's meaning would have to be "of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government." CD does none of that, now does it? So, the song is not political in nature. Just because something uses political imagery, or metaphors based on political concepts, it does not mean the thing itself is political. Now look up allegory.... Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 10:52:43 AM So, the highly controversial and long-fought political movement for a democracy in China has nothing to do with "the conduct of government" in China?
Look up common sense. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 10:57:48 AM So, the highly controversial and long-fought political movement for a democracy in China has nothing to do with "the conduct of government" in China? Look up common sense. Ah, the tactics of those who've lost arguments..decending to insults. Yes, the highly controversial and long fought political movement for democracy in china is very political. The song, "Chinese Democracy" has absolutely NOTHING to do with that movement, whatsoever, other than using it as an allegory for some bit of Axl's life. Again, the song's not political. Rail and argue to the contrary all you wish.....you're still wrong. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 24, 2004, 11:01:41 AM Wow! You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy. You can stop with the phony self-congratulation, nobodys buiying it. The fact is, theres really no argument because youre admittedly basing your opinion of a stupid technicality. Your logic: "Its called "Chinese Democracy," its gotta be political!" Well, sure, if youre simple enough to ignore that theres nothing of political significance in the songs content, I guess you could call it political, because you apparently dont know any better. But those of us who prefer to use common sense rather than silly technicalities know that these songs arent political. Axl himself has essentially said the same...but you still dont get it. And its very telling that you still havent attempted to extract any political messages out of these supposed "political" songs. Ive asked you three times now, but you continue to avoid it. Now, I realize why this is, and I hope you do too. It's simple, Axl uses political images to either #1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc Thus making it a non-political song. #2 make a political comment Id ask you to point out these political comments, but youll continue to dance around it. Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less. But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox. Oh, so if a title alludes to something political, its a political song - even if the actual song content is not political. Ooookay. :confused: If you dont see how retarded this logic is, then I dont know what to tell you. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 11:04:09 AM You said "look up allegory" I said "look up common sense". If you're claiming the "oppression due to insult" tunnel out of this one, then farewell. But it doesn't change the fact that these are political songs.
If Axl wants to use a political movement to allegorize his own life, and use the title of that moevement as the title of the song, the bottom line is that he is using the guise of politics. This is political. If you did not know what the POLITICAL movement of the chinese struggle for democracy was all about, then this allegory would make no sense. You have to have poiltical knowledge to make and understand political allegories. Sorry, but this song is political in nature. And THAT is common sense. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 24, 2004, 11:14:09 AM You said "look up allegory" I said "look up common sense". If you're claiming the "oppression due to insult" tunnel out of this one, then farewell. But it doesn't change the fact that these are political songs. If Axl wants to use a political movement to allegorize his own life, and use the title of that moevement as the title of the song, the bottom line is that he is using the guise of politics. This is political. If you did not know what the POLITICAL movement of the chinese struggle for democracy was all about, then this allegory would make no sense. You have to have poiltical knowledge to make and understand political allegories. Sorry, but this song is political in nature. And THAT is common sense. I said look up allegory because the definition of the term is pertinent to the conversation. I was quite serious. Allegory is never, ever about what is expressly being used as a symbol. Basic literary concept... And I've not argued "opression due to insult"..I've argued you've used the tactic of insulting the one who has turned your argument into Swiss Cheese..a common tactic of those who have lost an argument (and make no mistake about it..you have). Yes, Axl is using the guise of politics as his allegory. Yes, you probably have to have some rudimentary knowledge of current world politics to understand the allegory (I would suggest you need the same to fully appreciate the latest Brit rag's article on the weekend social exploits of Prince William as well...) No, that, in and of itself, doesn't make the song political. For the song to be political, it's meaning would have to fit the definition you provided. It doesn't. It's a very simple concept. If you refuse to understand that most basic of concepts, well, who am I to disabuse you of your illusions. Continue to apply your flawed logic....I, however, have made my point. I won't continue to bore the group by making it ad infinitum. The song is not political. Don't believe me? Fine by me. "You can use your illusions...let them take you where they may.." Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: lastroots on March 24, 2004, 11:40:50 AM Just my two cents:
First off, you can't say how Rhiad is spelled correctly. The Arabian original of the word has not the same letters we use and there are no strict rules. I'm just learning that language and there are multiple ways to write them with our letters. The most correct one according to pronounciation would be "Rhiadh". For the songs, Pilferk is correct, they aren't political. Madagascar - I agree with Jarmo, makes most sense. Chinese Democracy - uses political references as symbol and it's not very original. Axl shouldn't use things he doesn't really know about. All in all I see the cd lyrics mostly about CD itself and Axl work on it and the new band (our baby got to rule the nation / all I got is precious time) Rhiadh & The Bedouins - Well, Rhiadh is a city, Bedouins are (or better: were) a group of arabian people. In some way, of course they were a political movement, even if they had not described themselves that way. But this would take too long here. Look up some books about that, there are a lotta good ones out there about Arabian and Persian history. The song lyrics itself however have nothing to do with that. They're just Axl complaing about his whatever (well, that maybe the parallel - Arabian people have their very own way of being sad or frustrated - I guess there are people in your town who can tell you more about the topic). For the Blabbermouth rumour: Complete BS! /lastroots Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 11:53:43 AM who has turned your argument into Swiss Cheese..a common tactic of those who have lost an argument (and make no mistake about it..you have). So, there's no reason to consider this the initial insult? No reason to consider you smirk? Yes, Axl is using the guise of politics as his allegory. Yes, you probably have to have some rudimentary knowledge of current world politics to understand the allegory Alright. that, in and of itself, doesn't make the song political. To you it doesn't, to me it does. The only problem is there is no official authority to say you are right or I am right. No "official" list of political songs, and non-political songs. So, no need to beleaguer this point any further. At least what we both can agree on is that Axl uses political imagery to express himself. And that is the topic at hand here. And going back to the original rumor, and point of this argument, IF the rumor holds any weight, I can easily see why "Geffen found too many songs about news articles that the average guns fan would not remember nor care about". This is blatently what Axl does. "You can use your illusions...let them take you where they may.." Geee, how unique and creative that was. Here's my attempt: "This time I'll have the last word, you hear what I say. I tried to see it your way, it won't work today". Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: grog mug on March 24, 2004, 03:29:04 PM Again, no confirmation on this rumor. Taking it as bullshit until proved otherwise by someone that has correct info such as MANAGEMENT!
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: the dirt on March 24, 2004, 05:25:23 PM The song CD is political in the sense that Axl, allegorically, may be describing his frustrations with the old band,and comparing the situation to a CD while he is (or may not be) the Falun Gong trying to grasp and make sense of what he has found himself in, and battling within the peramiters set out before him.
All music can be considered in the same fashion. If you were to put yourself in the shoes of someone who felt the constraints of a communist regime that really affected your life. The song in question could be about that, period. It's more convenient for us to assume that it's about him alone, and that's fair enough, and it's probably the case. Fuck (although a cover) Down on the Farm is the same type of song. Is he actually singing about a farm? It's possible, but probably not------hence the allegorical aspect found in all music. Many people I knew didn't used to like Megadeth, for "they're too political". Maybe it was all about Dave Mustaine. Wheather or not it was, heis lyrics had heavily political overtones. So we may not know exactly what CD is about, but for these reasons it's probably the most "politically" influenced song Axl ever wrote. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 24, 2004, 05:31:41 PM Well, no doubt the two words Chinese Democracy mean some serious shit. Axl has chosen these words to name a SONG, an ALBUM, and a TOUR. Basically ten years of his life will be summed up in the 2 words "CHINESE DEMOCRACY".
All the merchandising, logos, stage setups, etc etc, all revolve around the new Chinese theme. Axl even took a special trip to China to channel some lyrical inspiration. For heaven sake, you cannot downplay the political/cultural undertones and aspirations of the name "Chinese Democracy". Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: MonkeySama on March 24, 2004, 10:19:09 PM The line "even with your iron fist - our baby got, to rule the nation," I believe, referances the Dalai Llama's selection in exile of the "re-incarnated" child, Panchen Llama in tibet and the Chinese governments subsequent imprisonment of the child in Beijieng because of the fact that the Dalai Llama didn't get government approval to appoint the child. All of this took place in '95 so the timing is certainly correct. So on one level he seems to be talking about his opinions of the Tibetan peoples oppression under Chinese rule. The song is probably allegorical, as well, in that the persecution he feels in his personal life may mirror his impressions of these events.
To say the song is not political because it it contains elements of allegory makes no sense to me though. Just because he relates the events to his experiences, does not erase the fact that he clearly has an opinion about the matter, so while not blatently political, he is expressing an opinion towards the politics of the Chinese government based on his knowledge of the situation. Madagascar on the other hand doesn't seem to be political at all. I believe the title relates to the song in the sense that Madagascar; similar to the Galapagos Islands (the place where Darwin originally developed his theory of evolution) had a completely unique evolutionary development due to it's seperation and subsequent isolation from the continent. Due to this "uniqueness" caused by the seperation, Madagascar evolved several distinct forms of life not found elsewhere in the world. Judge for yourself what Axl is trying to say here... As someone else said, there is no real "correct" spelling of Riyadh in English. The Aramaic (?) alphabet has little resemblance to the standard western alphabets therefore if it sounds correct when spelled phonetically it'll work. I have a globe that was made in the mid 60's in which it is spelled "Rhiad." It's just a matter of common usage. As to the meaning of this song, who the fuck knows? It's barely coherent... :smoking: ---thanks to AXE for the correction! Doh! Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Jizzo on March 24, 2004, 10:51:46 PM What about Oklahoma, that is kinda something that isn't as well known anymore.
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: axe on March 25, 2004, 12:48:47 AM Madagascar on the other hand doesn't seem to be political at all. I believe the title relates to the song in the sense that Madagascar; which as has been said is off the coast of Africa, is the place where Darwin developed his theory of evolution. Madagascar had a completely unique evolutionary development due to it's seperation and subsequent isolation from Africa. Due to this "uniqueness" caused by the seperation Darwin was able develop his revolutionary theories. Judge for yourself what Axl is trying to say here... Very very off-topic here, but I have to make a correction. Darwin started to develop his evolution theory in Galapagos Islands, not Madagascar. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 25, 2004, 02:49:46 AM who the fuck knows what CD is about... Try to read the lyrics... they make no fucking sense... Its just fucking words put together...
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: jarmo on March 25, 2004, 07:58:59 AM who the fuck knows what CD is about... Try to read the lyrics... they make no fucking sense... Its just fucking words put together... Here's what he says, or what I think he says, at the HOB in Vegas: "This next songs is... something new. You know, right before I came here... When I left L.A. The movie Kundun was on about the Dalai Llama. Kinda like the idea that were playing the House Of Blues because it's kinda associated with that. That came about that the House Of Blues in Chicago and Vegas called me. Do you wanna do a warm-up gig for Rio at the House Of Blues? Sure.... So, you know, I was getting ready to leave and, you know, the tv was on. It was the end of the movie and Dalai Llama is about to cross over the border, you know, to be in exile for the rest of his life from his own country. And he looks back at the men who helped him. You know, escape the Chinese goverment, and he looks back at them and waves and they wave at him. And then they show a scene where he looks back at them again and he sees everyone of them dead. Because he knew that they would be killed, they knew that in helping him they would be killed. You know the emotion in this next song it's.... That's all that's about it. It's not like an intelligent song, it doesn't have an answer to anything. But it's the title track of the record, which, God willing we will finish. And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that......" AXL! AXL! WOOOO! Las Vegas, 010101. /jarmo Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: ppbebe on March 25, 2004, 08:28:41 AM one more off- topic
silly question I wanted to clear up for a long time about Chinese democracy lyric why "It DO?t matter" instead of "It DOESN't matter" ??? is this supposed to be a Chinese person speaking English??? or do you say like this in America?? Or ?No, it,.......Don?t matter.? ? Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: norway on March 25, 2004, 08:30:19 AM The main man dude, hope thats the end of the off-topic discussion.
As going back... this is the buisness policy... SELL SELL SELL We all like the old epics and stuff, but the record companies primary target is the mainstreem rigtht? so... this may turn out true\ didn't axl hoped for the album to be put out before christmas 03 at that party too? But anyway, GH is getting tv commercials all over and selling like hell.... hope they soon release the album in the shaddow of that and that axl not (like the stubborn fuck he is) don't refuses cause he's pissed for loosing the battle Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: inotherealu on March 25, 2004, 02:30:41 PM This is my first message on this board, although I have checked it out several times.
I have a few questions and comments for pilferk who flames everyone who disagrees with him. What does pilferk mean? Does it mean you're rude and arrogant, because that's how you sound. What kind of life do you have? You obviously spend most of your time on here. Either your professional or personal life (or both) don't satisfy you or you are a fat ugly slob with no life. Which is it perverk? How about describing your self (looks and lifestyle) to the group? If you don't lie I guarantee you are the pathetic loser that I described above. Bring it on pilfreak! Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: jarmo on March 25, 2004, 03:04:13 PM This is my first message on this board And last. /jarmo Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: killingvector on March 25, 2004, 05:45:38 PM ""even with your iron fist - our baby got, to rule the nation," "
i don't think that is the correct line in the song. 'even with your iron fist, more than you got to rule the nation......" Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: AdZ on March 25, 2004, 05:55:17 PM I'm pretty sure it's 'baby'
Because later he says 'our baby got, to fool the nation' wait.. 'more than you got, to fool the nation' makes more sense.. damn. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Jabi on March 25, 2004, 06:21:31 PM why "It DO?t matter" instead of "It DOESN't matter" ??? It's just slang. :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: LeftToDecay on March 26, 2004, 05:38:06 AM This is my first message on this board, although I have checked it out several times. I have a few questions and comments for pilferk who flames everyone who disagrees with him. What does pilferk mean? Does it mean you're rude and arrogant, because that's how you sound. What kind of life do you have? You obviously spend most of your time on here. Either your professional or personal life (or both) don't satisfy you or you are a fat ugly slob with no life. Which is it perverk? How about describing your self (looks and lifestyle) to the group? If you don't lie I guarantee you are the pathetic loser that I described above. Bring it on pilfreak! Heheheheheheh. So, is there ANYONE here who DOESN'T think think this is a female Alter ego of PISSED OFF holidayidol? ;D Lack the guts to insult people with your "real" name, eh? Tsk tsk. It's remotely interesting that you felt the urge to change your sex for this. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 26, 2004, 07:36:05 AM Huh?
I've talked to Pilferk several times on AIM before....if I wanted to tell him off I would have there. It's not like we're enemies because we disagree on this issue! We've been friendly in the past. Anyway, he's right about the Madagascar thing, I can admit that. I'm not here to win arguments or bitch at people with alter-egos. (however, I did laugh when pilf and booker seemed to have vanished over the last page. I thought my argument was Swiss cheese ;) :hihi: ) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: jarmo on March 26, 2004, 10:44:33 AM So I get banned for criticising Pilfreak? You get banned for coming here, going off topic in threads by attacking a board member. If you're not here to discuss other things than Pilferk, I suggest you find some other place. /jarmo Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: ppbebe on March 26, 2004, 12:11:57 PM It's just slang. :) :-[Slang? I see. Ta! Jabi. :love: Why don?t you guys, start a new tread on Chinese democracy lyrics? I wanna learn more. and it?s really fun to know various interpretations. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 26, 2004, 12:21:50 PM Huh? I've talked to Pilferk several times on AIM before....if I wanted to tell him off I would have there. It's not like we're enemies because we disagree on this issue! We've been friendly in the past. Anyway, he's right about the Madagascar thing, I can admit that. I'm not here to win arguments or bitch at people with alter-egos. (however, I did laugh when pilf and booker seemed to have vanished over the last page. I thought my argument was Swiss cheese ;) :hihi: ) As I said..I've made my point. Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group? Am I likely to change your mind? No. Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again.... You wanted the last word...you got to have it.... Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: Booker Floyd on March 26, 2004, 12:43:25 PM (however, I did laugh when pilf and booker seemed to have vanished over the last page. I thought my argument was Swiss cheese ;) :hihi: ) Thats exactly why weve vanished. Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother? You think a song is political because its title - we get it. Its an illogical viewpoint. The end. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: grog mug on March 26, 2004, 02:42:24 PM Has anyone actually e-mailed blabbermouth to see where this rumor came from? Could of been just a random e-mail that blabbermouth blew out of proportion to get all the GN'R fans going...
Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: duga on March 26, 2004, 02:47:43 PM Has anyone actually e-mailed blabbermouth to see where this rumor came from? Could of been just a random e-mail that blabbermouth blew out of proportion to get all the GN'R fans going... It wasn't even Blabbermouth news, it was someone at the Blabbermouth-forum (commenting GNR news) that said this. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 26, 2004, 03:14:36 PM As I said..I've made my point. Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group? Am I likely to change your mind? No. Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again.... Thats exactly why weve vanished. Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother? You think a song is political because its title - we get it. Its an illogical viewpoint. The end. Mmm hmmm, sure guys. Guess you missed Jarmo's post of Axl's dialogue concerning "Chinese Democracy". Quote AXL: And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that...... If that ain't political.... :nervous: Hey - I admitted to being incorrect about Madagascar. (I was concentrating on all the movie and political soundbytes used in the middle of the song.) But, I think it's time to perhaps give into the fact that Chinese Democracy is maybe just a little bit political. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 26, 2004, 03:30:59 PM As I said..I've made my point. Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group? Am I likely to change your mind? No. Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again.... Thats exactly why weve vanished. Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother? You think a song is political because its title - we get it. Its an illogical viewpoint. The end. Mmm hmmm, sure guys. Guess you missed Jarmo's post of Axl's dialogue concerning "Chinese Democracy". Quote AXL: And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that...... If that ain't political.... :nervous: Hey - I admitted to being incorrect about Madagascar. (I was concentrating on all the movie and political soundbytes used in the middle of the song.) But, I think it's time to perhaps give into the fact that Chinese Democracy is maybe just a little bit political. Nope, I read the quote. It sounds like he's saying exactly what I did. He was thinking about China, and how it relates/is similar/is an allegory for a lot of what's happened to him. But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion....so, by all means..have the last word again. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 26, 2004, 03:45:47 PM "But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion"
Hahah! Yes you obviously do. (Isn't that an oxymoron?) He is NOT saying what you did, but precisely the opposite. He mentions nowhere about this being allegorical, but a song about the emotions he saw inside the movie Kundun, about the Dalai Llama. So he wrote a song expressing how oppresive the Chinese government was. Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy? That'll tell you what this is about. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: kockstar99 on March 26, 2004, 03:50:33 PM Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy? That'll tell you what this is about. Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us..... Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: pilferk on March 26, 2004, 03:56:23 PM "But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion" Hahah! Yes you obviously do. (Isn't that an oxymoron?) In that, at least, you're quite right (thought I'm not sure it is a true oxymoron....possibly). The only reason I posted was because you asked me a direct question.... So, with that said, since you "wondered" where Booker and I went the first time we were "done", I'll give you formal notice: I feel the conversation is at a dead end. We're obviously reading and interpreting things VERY differently. At this point, I've simply taken an "agree to disagree" stance. Therefore, this will be my last post on the subject. Is that clear enough? Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: the dirt on March 26, 2004, 04:01:20 PM Quote Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy? That'll tell you what this is about. Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us..... It could go either way. Someone post the lyrics and interpret what they believe they mean. While I'm half and half here (meaning that CD is half political and half about Axl's situation) whatever way it's interpreted, one would be able to do it both ways. I'm sure we all can make it completely political, or not, save the title- there is no clear cut winner here. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: holidayidol on March 26, 2004, 04:18:02 PM I feel the conversation is at a dead end. You felt that way earlier too, but we made quite a bit more headway into the discussion. We're obviously reading and interpreting things VERY differently..... Is that clear enough? I'm not sure that Axl's dialogue on the meaning of Chinese Democracy leaves much room for interpretation. I'll post the dialogue yet again: Quote And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that......[sings Chinese Democracy] Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us..... Well, that would be a lot of work for me too, as it runs pretty deep. It's prefaced directly in the lyrics for Chinese Democracy; Quote If they were missionaries Real time visionaries Sitting in a Chinese school To view my disinfatuation I know that I?m a classic case Watch my disenchanted face Blame it on the Falun Gong They've seen the end and you can?t hold on now It's a religious movement/sect. And basically, you can get a quick history lesson from these links: http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/falungong.html http://www.cesnur.org/testi/falun_042.htm#Anchor-21683 Here's a good snipit: Quote When the mainland Government launched its crackdown on the Falun Gong sect, it intended to stop the movement in its tracks. But a year after the Beijing leadership was shaken by the appearance of 10,000 silent devotees at the Communist Party's headquarters in Zhongnanhai to protest against official persecution, the sect continues to flourish. Today's protests are smaller, mainly because security forces keep a close watch on rail terminals and bus stations to try to stop members from entering the capital. But the steady stream of protesters turning up at Tiananmen Square expecting to be arrested shows that many adherents cannot be intimidated into abandoning their beliefs. The Government's panic reaction after the Zhongnanhai demonstration has given greater momentum to the movement's crusade. Falun Gong followers are aggrieved that beliefs they see as healthy, benign and non-political should be labelled an evil cult. They use peaceful demonstrations as the only way to publicise injustice against thousands of fellow members serving prison sentences, and who - according to reports - are as undaunted behind bars as the daily protesters in Tiananmen Square. There is no escape for the Government from this embarrassing situation. It has vilified the movement so thoroughly that it could not backtrack even if it felt inclined to. Social control remains its driving force. However apolitical Falun Gong followers claim to be, they represent the most formidable challenge to authority since the democracy movement in 1989. Rioting farmers and disgruntled workers have failed to make as powerful an impact as the silent legions of Falun Gong followers, mainly middle-aged ladies, calmly carrying out physical exercises and talking about spiritual purity. That is because the sect's teachings point up a malaise and address a spiritual void in China that economic reform cannot fill. However illogical and superstitious Falun Gong doctrines may sound to non-believers, they appeal to the generation born and raised during the Mao era, whose guiding force was once the Communist Party, and who have lived to see the old certainties overturned, with nothing to replace them but materialism. The sect has offered a substitute that the Government has not been able to supply. It offers a path that does not depend on money, or influence or success. In that, it is not unlike many other religions flourishing in China and elsewhere. Persecution will not bring it to a halt. Eventually the Government may recognise the best guarantee of social order is individual freedom. Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: HoldenCaulfield on March 26, 2004, 05:32:36 PM Believe it or not, I've spent a lot of time lately trying to interpret the lyrics to 'Chinese Democracy', into some political context, and I've found some success. You have to do so with an open mind, because truth be told, we *don't* know what Axl's intentions were with writing this song, but here's a little info I've gathered...
"Blame it on the Falun Gong, they've seen the end and ya can't hold on now" Okay, the Falun Gong is somewhat of a religious movement that originated in China, but is practiced all over the world. It's basically a movement with a Yoga-type of lifestyle (stretching, meditation, peace, love, etc.), however, there are so many people practicing this in China alone, that the Communist government classifies them as a group powerful enough to overthrow the current regime. So in response, anyone openly taking practice in or support the Falun Gong can, if desired, be killed on the spot. I forget how many innocent people have been killed and beaten just for practicing. So from the Chinese government's perspective, if they were overthrown and democracy flourished, the Falun Gong would be a big part in that (Blame the Falun Gong for a democracy, which we (communist) didn't want). "They've seen the end and ya can't hold on now" The Falun Gong has always wanted democracy, so you can see where the "If they were missionaries, real-time visionaries" comes in. It's always been a vision of their's, if you will. So they've always seen the end (end of communism in China) and "ya can't hold on now" (democracy has one, our time is over). I can go on, but I'll just post that bit. :) Title: Re:Rumour from Blabbermouth.net Post by: delvis on March 26, 2004, 09:53:46 PM I lost the quote part of this so here it is anyway.
This was said earlier: But those of us who prefer to use common sense rather than silly technicalities know that these songs arent political. Axl himself has essentially said the same...but you still dont get it. From me: So here's one for you, Axl said this himself did he? Where the fuck is the album he told us about 4 years ago. Why should we believe anything the guy says. If you were using common sense you would have figured that out by now. So you still don't get it. I have been reading this crap fro the last 30 minutes and I am laughing my ass off. Just so you all know, and I am sure you may not give a shit but I agree with Holiday Idol. Axl is using politics to convey his message and in my opinion that gives his songs a political connection. Commenting on Gov/Democracy etc... in any shape or form is political, Axl is doing this. If we ever get the album, maybe we can discuss it further but for the time being I don't think we are going anywhere with this. However, I did enjoy reading it. Dennis |