Here Today... Gone To Hell!

why do sooooooo many poeple out there have a chip on there shoulder about axl.poeple who were once his fans now come to GNR sites and do nothing but dig axl.ive been coming to this site for a few years now and over the past couple of years ive noticed a lot more axl bashing going on.now where do i start,i am a BIG gnr fan just like most of you out there.my life practilly revolves around GNR and lately VR.yes i aint ashamed to admit i really do like VELVET REVOLVER.but thats a different story.i bought tickets for the shows that were never gonna happen,i watched rumoured CD release dates go by with no new album,hell i even sat and watched the whole rock in rio 2004 show live just in case.but im still a diehard GNR fan just like most of us.what is it with those of u who have decided that axl hates U and he doesnt want U to hear his music.axl bashers think axl owes them something on a personel level and they think he lives to try and please them.there the poeple who call axl a looney when its them who have a screw loose.now this aint a dig at u axl bashers (honest) but i want u to think to yourself,if CHINESE DEMOCRACY is as good as APPITITE and tops all the charts and is plastered all over MTV etc,will u go out and buy the album or wear the tshirt and say too poeple with a big grin on your face "IVE BEEN A GNR FAN FOR YEARS".coz ill tell u something now,i and proberbly alot of other TRUE fans bet u do.   

i agree, if they don't like axl then they can stay the hell away from his fan forum in the first place.

Being critical is one thing,. but Axl Bashers just have nothing better to do than show their ignorance.

There isnt very many Axl bashers at this site. Sure, there's a few that insult him on a personal level, but not many. Criticizing Axl's decision making process is not bashing him. Everybody here likes Axl. If they didnt, why would they be here? Everyone just wants this album to come out, so it can bring closure to our situation. Sometimes, the wait gets very frustrating, and that frustration comes out in some of our posts. When Axl reads the threads, I'm sure he realizes that none of us hate him, we just get tired of the process. I have wrote some very critical posts about the CD situation, and if Axl reads them, I'm sure that he respects my opinion and knows that I'm not attacking him on a personal level. Same can be said for the other posters too. Axl has to know that if we were on a sinking ship with him, we would not let him sink alone. I would stay in the ship with him, just so he knows that someone still cares.

Nice post! Wish more people felt the way you do!

It's true what James said.? I have seen on other sites with much more Axl bashing then on this one.? It's total frustration.? I love Axl and will always support him but I also have criticized his decision making doesn't mean it's personal, doesn't mean that if CD or Axl himself came out tomorrow that I wouldn't be there 100%.? ?It's just the wait and Axl's plan that still hasn't come to fruition, that's what feuls some frustration and negativity from some of the fans.

awsome post, it makes me feel that the wait for AXL's baby alot more easier to take. Three cheer's for AXL

You have no right to get frustrated with him. Its not like he owes you anything. If your sick of waiting go do something else.  : ok:

chineseblues, we DO have that right. I have spent thousands of dollars over the years on GNR, as have many others, and if we want to get frustrated at the situation, that is are right.

I have made comments here before criticizing Axl. But I didn't say I hated him , here's what I mean:

The good- Awesome singer , great stage presence, good lyricist, He's a great musician without a doubt

The bad- Now I don't know what's wrong with not liking how he caused riots at concerts and was a dickhead to his bandmates because they were cool too, like Slash : ok: . What's wrong with getting mad that he kept delaying this supposed-to-be-big album , I just got tired so I gave up and moved on with my life.

That dosen't make me an Axl basher one bit :no:

MikeB, I totally agree. Just because we're frustrated with CD, it doesnt mean we hate him. Whats so fascinating about Axl is how he has such a hold over people's lives, for such a long period of time. Funny you mention 'moving on'. During this 12 year wait, I have 'moved on' several times, did other things and kept CD out of my mind, but I always find myself thinking about it again and start cruising the forums. The only thing that will bring closure to us hardcore fans is the release of CD. Sometimes I wonder if Axl realizes this, and it scares him. Maybe he worries that his fanbase will abandon him when CD is released, so he has decided, in his words, to "keep it to myself".

i think if u read my original post again u will realise that i didnt say u hate axl,i said u think he hates u.its not the fact that poeple are frustrated its the fact that any topic ends up in axl bashing even if the topic is about ur favourite flower.

I agree with you about every topic going negative, we're all to blame for that, its just the frustrations coming out after 12 years of waiting. But I do NOT think Axl hates us. I've never said that, maybe some other people have. I just think Axl is a deeply troubled individual who has dug himself into a very deep hole and is going insane trying to figure a way out of it. He probably wishes he had never uttered the words 'Chinese Democracy' and 'Big Guns'. His self hype was a major mistake, and was more than likely the ruination of his career. And he knows it. I still have faith that he'll get the courage to release CD, but that faith grows weaker by the day. I just wish we could hear something positive from him. Not just an album release date, just a positive press release to know he's ok, and is capable of handling the situation.

No you dont. All the money you have spent, you got something in return. So how does that give you any right to get frustrated? You, me or anyone else have 0 right to be negative about this. You havent paid for CD so therefore you cant say shit about it  : ok:

chinese, tell that to the people who bought tickets to the no shows. And as far as frustration goes: We all have that right. Since 1999, Axl and his band have hyped this album to unrealistic proportions. If he didnt want frustration, he shouldn't have talked about an album in 99 that we would still be waiting for in 2005 and counting..

Chinese, as a fan who has been devoted to GNR for a long, long time and a fan of Axl Rose for a long, long time, he got me so excited when made his comeback, only to be gone AGAIN.    He does own his devoted long time fans something after his comeback.  He left with all broken promises so far,  to the people that love him the most.   If he never completes the project so be it BUT let us know so we can put some closure to the waiting.   If he does complete the project then I hope it's completed soon because Axl as a professional musician should do the right thing by his fans.

no but we have been waiting 5 years for it so frustration tends to build up. And, let's face it, Axl is a wierd guy. If people bash him, thats thier problem. But most of us here critisize him for making us wait 5 years.

do u really think axl is the type of guy who will be sitting in his mansion in malibu thinking to himself "i hope all my fans are sitting in there  homes and waiting for me to get this album out".I THINK NOT.no musician has a deadline to there fans.if u run out of patience then its your own fault for waiting.weve already got,in my eyes,5 off the best albums in the world and if they were the only 5 id ever hear then id still be a fan till the day i die.get on with ur lives and like ive said before when CD is released,we can have street partys and every thing,if ur  still GNR fans by then,i know i will.

Show me where he promised anything? Ive read all the interviews and seen all the bootlegs and he never made one promise in any of them. In fact at the VMA's he said "Soon is not the word".

Chinese Blues...come on.....? Round 2, the mere fact in just promoting this album, the tour, the talk of the "big guns", pushing the new band and how they worked there ass off for the tour and for the album.? He has to say the word promise?

I still dont see him promising you or anyone else anything. Goes to show that you Axl bashers have no real reason to bash him.  8)

Ditto to chineseblues. :yes: 
no real reason at all.

Musicians sell music and not themselves. You take the music and not the musician. It's this simple.
They never ask you to hang about the whole while they are working on it.
Axl even told you to live your life.
More, You are not the one who takes responsibility for the project.
To put it bluntly it's none of your business, really.

I respect the silence and patience.


All? Bullshit. Not all of us are nagativite or frustrated. You surely are to blame for the good half of that.
Actually we, the positive fans feel aggravated at some moronic hate-posts and not at the wait itself.

AHAHAHAHA!!!

Awwww, that's ......um......sweet.  :-X

why do you feel the need to bash anybody that just express what you don't agree with? fuck off.
and there is no doubt axl will be successful with this. it's gonna be better than we can all imagine.

WELL FUKIN SAID AUGUST :-)

thank you.

Wow, you are going to last long here. ::)

i wouldn't be so sure, i've been coming here for six years already.

yet you dont know half the rules  ::)

because i'm not licking jarmo's ass like a stupid message board whore. *cough*you*cough*

I wouldnt call anyone a messageboard whore is I were you:

Posts:     373 (24.867 per day)
Position:    Rocker
Date Registered:    June 24, 2005, 11:38:54 AM

Do you spend all day on the forum posting?  :nervous:

yes. i make an average of one post per hour.

once again the tables have turned

back on topic: axl deserves critisizim from us. if we stop critizing him, that means we stop caring about him and what he does. the more we cirtsize CD, the more we care about it. odd as it may sound, but its the truth

but no-one can critisize CD coz u or anyone else havnt even heard it.its not about critisizing anyway its about bashing axls ways now and then when CD is released u will worship him and u will forget about the long wait.its two faced and makes ne poeple who bash axl a non-true fan.

excactly. i support that 100%, especially about how the wait will be forgotten and the bashers (so-called fans) will be kissing his ass again.

What don't you people understand, August, Chinese Blues, etc .  James, myself and others on here are NOT axl bashing.  We simply don't agree with the time frame and we do agree that Axl should do right by his fans.  That's it period.  We express our opinion, not call Axl names or not support him.  BIG difference in bashing and stating frustration.   We do listen to his old music and the boots of the new music but if I don't agree with how he is going about releasing this thing, that is my opinion.  I love Axl but I sure as hell am not blind to this very odd way he is going about this whole thing.  I know Axl does things in his own way and doesn't follow the norm but my opinion still stands that I do love his recluse attitude, I feel enough is enough already, let the music be out there and let his band finally get the just desserts for all there hard work on this album instead of keeping them waiting too.

there it is again,that word "WAITING".u wait for a bus,u wait for ur bath to fill with hot water,u wait for ur meals to cook.if it took a month to fill ur bath with hot water or a week for the bus to come then u have the right to get inpatient and bash the bus driver etc coz u need to be somewhere or coz u need to eat.but the difference is u dont need CHINESE DEMOCRACY coz we already have GNR music.if ur true fans then u would understand this.my point is get excited at the prospect of a new album but PLEASE PLEASE STOP WAITING FOR IT,IT WILL COME ONE DAY.

I am also a little tired of seeing all of Axl's fans bashing him but I'm sure if he released the album it would all come to the end as well as if there was a complete Guns N' Roses reunion. Anyways......I love you Axl and I wish you the best forever!

so thats it then,if axl doesnt release the album or play on stage with poeple who dont get on with each other then the axl bashers will carry on.i think ull find that aint fair dude

Criticising out of frustration? It doesn't sound constructive does it? It's no more than whining.
What difference does it make?

What I don't understand is the obsessive n possessive idol-worship about the musicians that don't sell themselves.

Now, Whiners,
What you don't understand and You must understand is that all the complaints about no-CD should be grumbled in the thread called "the frustration thread" at the dead horse section.
Tara. :wave:

Well, lets see....I am not a true fan because I am frustrated with waiting....Please that is rediculous...  If anything, I AM the true fan that wants this man to succeed with this album he so proudly introduced to us.  I have their old music and I love there old music.  If anything I am NOT a blind AXL Worshipper because I don't sit around a shrine, blessing the very ground he walks on.  You guys are getting all worked up over the fact that it's taking a long time for the album to come out, I really don't understand the problem just because some of us voice that.   Just because he said, live your life and don't wait for it, you people quote that every time.    Geez, come to some other forums see the bashing alot worse than what you think I am bashing about.  The long wait is nothing compared some REAL axl bashing that I have seen.

I'm a two faced axl bashing double talking jive mithafucker!

whoop there I is.  : ok:

A true fan understands there are bumps in the road. A true fan is a fan through all the good times and bad, through all the activity and the inactivity. Therefore people who whine and complain about the band or the album are NOT true fans.  : ok:

Problem is , the road seems to be washed out and closed down right now. No repairs or construction seem to be anywhere in sight.  :nervous:

This isn't a bump in the road. ?Just remember how long it's been since UYI was released. ?You really don't need to engage in hyperbole to bash Axl, you just need to tell the truth. ?Axl is to blame for the band falling apart. ?He is to blame for us not having an extra three GN'R albums in the past ten years. ?He is responsible for the best rock band in the world being turned into the punch line of a thousand jokes.

I've been a fan since AFD was released and I still listen to it and am constantly amazed by how good it is. ?However this does not take away from the fact that Axl has been the author of his own misfortunes and blind hero worship isn't going to change the fact that he is pissing his career away sitting in his mansion. ?He's in a rock band so he just needs to make some music.

The white stripes can make an album in a week, Axl should be able to do the same in a decade.

You have to be joking right? Merck has said 2005 will be the year of GNR, all signs are pointing to the album being released later this year. We as fans are about to come to the end of all this waiting very soon. We should be getting an announcement within the next month or so, I think you can wait that long right?



Your forgetting its a totally different lineup now. CD is going to be a new era for GNR.

Axl wasn't the one who walked out on the band, hes not responsible for the old band breaking up either. Look to slash, duff etc for that : ok:

Meh , I dunno. I dont see anything different this year then last year. People close to the band saying it's almost done , it will be out this year etc etc .. same thing every year really.

Maybe 05 will be the year , but I'll be shocked if it is. Every day that goes by with no news about the album or a release date is another day that makes 05 another wasted year.

I don't think I necessarily whine Chineseblues, I am just stating facts.  I am with Saul on this one, if 2005 is the year of the album release I too will be shocked but I will also be 100% behind Axl if it is.   Through the good and the bad, I have never turned my back on being a fan of Axl's.   Why must it be that if you are annoyed at the wait you're not a true fan?  If it never comes out what will you say then, if it's not going to be GNR's year, what will you say then?  Will you not be disappointed or upset or even a little bitter at the fact that Merck has stated this year and it might not come true...if you have these feelings, does that make you any less of an Axl or GNR fan?

exactly. whenever axl puts this out I will buy a few copies and get behind him 110% and try and spread the word as much as possible. Until then I'll sit around the board and crack wise , hopefully garnering a cheap laugh or two along the way.  ;D

what i find really amusing about all the haters is this: i've found that fans who are spew a lot of negativity about Axl do so because plain and simple they blame Axl for the demise of the original band and are pissed at Axl and just can't get over it.
they think he's a selfish asshole, etc.  ALOT of these same people also resent that Axl has refused to 'make up' with the guys and have a reunion...    They want the original line-up or at least Axl/Slash/Duff back together. 
They say "it's not GN'R without Slash!!" or some stuck in an even more distant pass:  "it's not GN'R without Izzy"..
Um... wouldn't this mean their having to work with the selfish asshole again?  Oh, but you're all willing to make that sacrifice...
in the name of 'the perfect band'.  Um.   So now we're getting closer. 

The haters are pissed at Axl because the truth they realize is that they need Axl to be in the band for it to be GN'R/ the perfect band.
Why are there not hordes of 'Axl lovers' bitching and wishing that Slash or Duff or Izzy was still with Axl.
Why are there not hordes of 'Axl lovers; bitching about how Izzy quit... how Slash quit... how Duff, too, quit?

Because us 'Axl lovers' don't feel we need 'em.
(yeah, that's right - you read that right! I'm an 'Axl lover' and proud of it! :yes: )
That's another thing that pisses off the bashers. 
It's like a form of penis envy  :hihi:

We 'got' Axl... we got our GN'R. 
but the axl bashers feel they've been robbed of their GN'R
(robbed by the same man they obviously feel they need to have in GN'R - where he's been since day one btw)

and hey, i don't expect anyone to whom this applies to fess up to it  :P

You really cannot blame them for leaving.  They wanted to make music.  Did anyone serious expect them to set around for an entire decade waiting for Axl?  That's the reason for the new line up, the other guys got sick of waiting on Axl.

Dude you really don't know you're gnr history do you? Around 94/95 they were writing songs that were suppose to be the next gnr album. Slash wanted the songs to stay the way he wrote them and didn't want Axl to work on them at all. He didn't allow it to happen so Axl said "Im not doing these songs". He walked out on them (which was the right thing to do considering those songs became the snakepit material and we all know how much that stuff sucked.) We would have had another gnr album around 96 if Axl would have been allowed to work with the material. So if you want to blame someone for you not having another gnr album of new material after UYI, blame Slash cause he fucked it up.

I hate axl cause he wont wear the tight bicycle shorts anymore. rat bastard he is.

objective criticism and bashing are entirely different things

i would venture a guess to say that the biggest fans are the ones who criticise Axl the most - they hold him in such high regard, that when he lets his fans down or does something destructive to his career, these fans are calling him out for his own good

blind faith and hero worshipping is dangerous, you get into an 'emperors new clothes' type situation

we all know what Axl has acheived and what he is capable of - that is partly why it is so frustrating to be a fan and watch him make poor choices

Riock on :beer:  Where as I don't hate axl and I don't criticize him other than the wait, it is certainly frustrating and I'd like to know why if you say one thing that IS a fact, that the album is taking a long time in the making you are labeled a basher or a hater.....I just don't understand..  WE as long time Axl fans want the best for him and watching him being bashed far worse by others in the media and his peers is extremely annoying.  He can end all this by coming back and kicking ass :peace:

If you people are referring to me and DTJ as "Axl haters", I would like you to find one of our posts where we call Axl names and insult him on a personal level. You wont find any!! We offer constructive criticism, on an intellectual level. If you cant see that, that's your fault, not mine. The so called "Axl haters" are not pissed that old GNR isn't around. Everyone got over that many years ago. What pisses people off is this infinite wait, and that alot of the facts concerning CD don't add up. One minute its "live your life, if it doesn't come out, you wont have missed a thing", the next minute its "I've got big guns!" One minute its "18 tracks with 10 extra tracks", then its "Its not gonna be a long album." One of Axl's statements in 2992 was about "some people think these new songs we're playing is all we got". NOBODY EVER SAID THAT! Now people say it, but that had not entered anyone's minds in 2002. Axl basically admitted that in 2002, there wasn't enough songs for a full length album. The wait frustrates us, but its also the fact that when you put all the CD info on the table, something doesn't add up.

in all fairness, being a fan just means liking the music and the band, but about being a fan through good times and bad, yes that shows who are true fans or not, but i don't think people like DoubleTalkingJive and jameslofton29 aren't sticking by axl. not at all.

??? where was any of that infered?

well I disagree there - that is exactly the 'emperors new clothes' situation I referred to earlier

'True fans' as you put it, will be objective and detached in their judgment when CD comes out

The bar has been set so high by GN'Rs legacy, that anyone who settles for anything less than brilliance of the highest order, IMO is not a 'true fan'

for you to even suggest i'm not a "true" fan because i support axl in whatever direction he chooses to go, is ridicilous and i won't stand for it.

I'm not into "mine is bigger than yours" stuff. I'd rather be a casual fan than a possesive fan.  :peace:

Saul how dare you forget that tanga? compared to tanga,  tight bicycle shorts were gay  >:(


Sorry, Really I don't blame them at all.
But for their departure, this band I love today wouldn't have been born. How karmic!
Thank you, the former great guns!  Thank you!

Whiners there, again

please please please
No. 1 if you wanna show how you're frustrated without CD, go whine here. http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?PHPSESSID=b8f5ee181929641438e9bfd88eb2041c&topic=20862.0
No. 2 if you wanna complain about how this board is not like others, you go whine at administrative, feedback n help section.
No. 3 if you want to demonstrate who were to blame or anything over spilt milk, go milk at dead horse section.

Otherwise, I donno.....wait and see ::)

who the hell talked about "mine is bigger than yours"?


so in other words, fans of slash aren't true fans because contraband wasn't brilliance, compared to the illusions and appetite for destruction. you make a very poor point, my friend.

no, you interpret poorly my friend and make poor analogies

true fans of slash would agree that Contraband wasnt his best work and would hope that he can improve on it rather than blindly suggest it is brilliant etc... geddit?

The topic is about two faced axl bashers and since people tend to think I am one of them, this thread is completely appropriate for the discussion at hand.
As far as other boards, if you read my post over, since I believe this is directed towards me, the bashing on other boards are far worse than on this one. ? Should I go complain to admin that the bashing is much worse on other boards and why isn't this one like that ::)
Talk about a true fan, how could one possibly be one if they are thanking their lucky stars that the old band broke up :o ? From that we do have a great kick ass band, VR and when new GNR release CD, only then can I be soooooo happy that this band formed. ?I certainly haven't heard enough of them to make a judgment call. ?From what I have heard I like but the album is what is going to speak volumes to me. ?The old GNR was one of the greatest rock n roll bands in history and I would never disrepect them by saying that I am "happy" they broke up, it was a sad day when it finally went up in smoke.

yes, but that doesn't change the fact that, according to you, since he was part of making the standards so high for gn'r's legacy, his true fans shouldn't accept contraband at all. so those who actually like contraband, aren't his true fans. according to you. ???

Big difference between Axl and Slash though isnt there?  - Slash fans can rightfully feel a bit disappointed by Contraband (Im one of them) and hope that in the future, more Slash shines through in VR etc.. - however, Slash isnt recording under the name GNR is he? So in reality, his band can be judged as a seperate entity, whereas Axl has to at least equal if not surpass anything GNRs legacy established

This doesnt change what my point was August - and that is if we blindly follow and accept without criticism Axls shortcomings and bad decisions, we are doing him a dis-service as a fan, because a fan wants to see the best possible outcome for their object of 'fandom'

lol but listen, axl doesn't answer to us and we don't answer to axl so that doesn't matter. being a fan just means supporting him and liking his music, not in any way can supporting him regardlessly make you any less of a fan, if anything it's the opposite, since we are just following his career and supporting what he does. axl makes his own decicions, as do you and i, but that doesn't mean that the people always wanting the best for you are doing you a dis-service, as it's completely up to yourself what you choose to do.

Jimmy, you just made a very good point. Its something that the "Axl is God" section of the fanbase doesn't seem to understand. If Axl makes a mistake, and Axl knows its a mistake, and certain people say it was the greatest decision ever made, well thats just sick. Axl has probably puked in disgust at those kinds of people many times over the past 12 years.

yes but lavishing praise on the un-worthy (eg saying that he sings better now, or VMAs was 'electrifying' etc..) is doing more harm than good right?

Constructive critisicm is what the man needs, not 'yes-men' telling him everything he does is great etc..

this is fucking dumb and i won't be a part of it. arguing over who's the "right" or "true" fans and who isn't is just sickening, and people like you aren't really helping anything, as you whine your way through the fan forums. if you don't like the wait then stop taking it out on other fans, who just want to show their support. and i know for a fact that axl appreciates support like this, he's made that clear both in 2001/2002 and in the past so i think you should just be careful about putting words in his mouth. but enough of this, this is making me sick to watch gn'r fans try to tear other gn'r fans down because they support gn'r's frontman. until today, i thought most people thought that was a good thing.

No one is trying to tear anybody down.  If anything when one of us states a fact that is negative you jump all over us. 

August, I'm not the one trying to go to war with the different segments of the GNR fanbase. As I've stated several times before, we're all in this ship together, and sink or swim, we're together. Its these "Axl is God" people that are trying to pigeonhole me, DTJ, and several others as "Axl bashers", which is moronic. Just because I offer constructive criticism about the situation doesn't mean I hate Axl. There is only like 1 or 2 posters at this site who obviously hate Axl, since they insult him on a personal level. So go take your anger out on them. I have gotten into fistfights defending Axl's name. So take that "Axl basher" shit to someone else.

 :-* :-*  James speaks the truth :beer:

have i ever called you an axl basher or anything similar? no, matter of fact i have defended you, even in this thread, so don't bring my name up. all i try to do is bring fucking balance to things and keep this board alive, while others give up i give encouragement. you should know that by now.

perhaps this was more directed at me

if so, im going to choose to ignore it as I see no reason to defend my standing as a "fan"

I will say though August, that I am finding your posts here increasingly argumentative and immature

see this is the problem. if you actually read my posts in this thread i was trying to fight this "true fan/not true fan" bullshit, it's sickening and the only reason you bring this to me is because i reacted to a post made by "chineseblues". you'll find that we actually agree on this if you actually read what i said.

AXL definatly has good and bad points as we all do.
but i think loyalty is also apart of being a fan.
i have stuck with GNR scince i was 12, listened to them everyday.
spread the word of how good thier music is. the thing is, i dont care if AXL is a perfectionist or egotystical, he's still the man, because i fell in love with GNR and he is very much apart of that!!! ?: ok:

I dont get Axl bashers either, Obviously they are waiting around to see what he has to come out with otherwise they wouldnt post here.  :peace:

that's how it is, i agree. : ok:
that being said, i'm tired of message board arguments. i think i'll come back when this board isn't tearing apart anyone trying to bring positivity to it.

Bottom line is this we are all fans no matter how it is defined, all of us are..With that being said, some of us choose to voice opinions and some choose not.   As long as we aren't name calling and being vulgar to Axl or each other we can speak how we feel, it's what a forum is all about. :peace:

well put

true, you seem smart and i respect you as a good poster. :beer:

stop using axl's lingo

stop thinking so much about axl. :nervous:
it's not like he invented that expression.

while offering all our speculation is all good and well and fine, i agree, that I'd rather read constructive support than negative assumptions.

questioning or criticizing anything perceived/assumed about Axl or the new band, expressed reasonably and respectfully is okay - for the sake of discussion and keeping it interesting around here - sure we can all speculate and play monday morning quarterback or back seat driver

thing is in order to play monday morning quarterback well you need to at least have seen the game! ?
in order to be back seat driver you gotta be in the same car! ?shit... none of us are even on the same road

my point is that we don't know shit...   we don't know what the fuck goes on 'there'... not in the past, and certainly not currently...

in the absences of knowledge their is essentially either room for doubt or for faith.

none of us know what's going on with Axl and the new band and the new album
fuck if we even can know what was behind: ?Philly/ the 02 tour cancellation; Buckethead's departure; or basically anything at all
all we ever see is the end results (or lack thereof) but we don't know the cirucumstances surrounding or leading up to anything

I repeat: ?in the absences of knowledge their is essentially either room for doubt or for faith.

some fans would just blame Axl for... well, for everything and anything that hasn't resulted in their own gratification/ satisfaction in regards to being a GN'R fan

personally, I don't second guess Axl... ?don't feel the need to criticize nor do i feel like he 'could use my advice'
i believe that he will suceed... i trust that he is in the best position to know what's best for Guns N' Roses

call it 'blind faith' if you will... but if you think about it, that is a redundant phrase.... ?faith is to believe in something without seeing it ? ;)

absoufukinloutly(i think).means i started this thread i think its my job too point out that this is probebly the only topic ABOUT axl that hasnt turned into an axl bashing contest.well done everyone. :beer:.although i am going to throw the "true" fans thing out the window even if i started it coz if u werent fans then u wouldnt be here.now we can all talk positive about things coz weve come to the conclusion that we cant really give constructive opinions or bash about axl coz we dont really know fuk all about him :peace: 

Thanks August and I respect you as a good poster too :beer:

A board where everyone were to agree would be the most boring shit!

If criticizing Axl hurts you so much....
1: get a job
2: get drunk
3: STFU and get over it

NO fan answers to another fan as to who is more loyal. Unless you kick someone's ass who shits on the band, you are not guaranteed "true fan" status.

According to some of you, a fan who has been into the band for 2 years and follows blindly every move Axl makes and praises every choice(even bad ones) is more of a "true fan" than someone who has been a fan for 2 decades and dares to criticize? ::)

Check the candles at your Axl shrine, they may be burning out.........

RustyCage, that was the post of the day!!

Who cares if people bash Axl? Thier problem, not yours. Let it go and if they praise him after CD, then you know thier bandwagons. Simple.

When 'the critics' express judgements about what Axl's doing or has done they can expect to hear others to point that out they don't know shit - certainly not enough to second guess him or assign him blame whenever the outcome is not satisfactory.  If this is offensive then they should keep your above instructions in mind.

Thy say the truth hurts.  The truth is that 'the critics' don't know what the fuck is going on.  If being reminded of that 'hurts' - it's only because its the truth ;)

For us who believe in Axl's intentions and abilities, our faith can not be undermined by 'the critics' blind judgement.

So some people need to check their high horse - it's dead.

who the fuck are you even talking to? who's talking about being a "true" fan here? not me, i loath that expression. besides, since 1990 is hardly 2 years and i dare to criticize, i just choose to support.
so:
1. chill out
2. go get laid
3. stop singling out axl supporters

oh. and
4. get the fuck out of the "us against them" mindset, it's so grunge.

im just playin dogg i lika to do da joka

oh for real dawg well it's kinda hard to tell over the internet

is it me or has the axl bashing decreased a little over the past few days

You mean are we all feeling the love together? :love:   I wasn't on yesterday but the day before seems everybody is playing nice, except it got a little heated in here a few posts up.

No too wide of sight you've got there. have anyone noticed how much people bash Slash & Velvet Revolver? i bet other members of Gn'R are bashed 10x more than Axl, but heres just too many Axl-a-fucks who think Gn'R was all about Axl and when someone says 1 bad thing about him, and 100 bad things about other members it means Axl is bashed more. face it, Gn'R was more than Axl.

sorry for the messy writing, sleepy...

Yes, I have noticed that but he was talkiing about Axl bashing.... I too don't like the bashing of Slash, Duff, Matt and VR as I love VR and they kick ass.  But that discussion would have be another topic and thread entirely ;)

I lost my interest in VR a bit. It's Not my fault that I'm fussy n fickle. :P


Did you even read my post? Does any of your sayings match with those conditions I gave?
I said the whiners. Nothing  personal.

It was a decade ago. I would've been sad then, like on leaving of BH. Come back BH!!! :rant:

I'm here for the new band and not for the past glory. What wrong with that?
I love the sound this lineup makes. I like the individuals in this band so much, not just Axl.
This lineup even contributed to the contra sales. It introduced ex guys' activity to me.

A fan or not is what I decide. Thank you very much.
I don't give a fart about a true fan or the biggest fan that i've never claimed of. Basically I'm just a humble music fan.
But yea, maybe there are a few fake fans who post fan boards for some totally different reasons, eg money, personal grudges, pranks etc... I donno.

I did  read your post and I feel I have answered appropriately.  Since I am the one that mentioned axl bashing on other boards, I took your post to be directed at me, if I was wrong I apologize if you meant generally speaking.   As far as whining about CD, I do take that personal and by my past posts in this thread I have explained where I stand on the wait for this album.

I agree with you that it shouldn't be a who is more of a fan than others or a true fan but I was just a little taken back by the "glad the old band broke up comment".    It's a shame really that you can't hear more of the new band that you love so much.  I wish I could hear more of them but yes, we will have to wait and see if they ever do surface.   

All in all most of us are here for the same reason. :peace:

DTJ, please dont apologize to these people. You have no reason to apologize. The majority of insults in this thread were directed at the two of us. They might try to back off on those statements, but their attempt at labeling us was their sole intention, which I still dont understand. I have never bashed Axl, and neither have you. Constructive, intellectual statements about the situation is not bashing. I will not apologize, and neither should you. I'm gonna paraphrase Ronald Reagan," Stand strong in the face of opposition".

I wasn't apologizing for the way I feel, I was apologizing if I read the post wrong and if it wasn't directed at me, which I agree most of the insults were meant for you and me. ;) 

But I hear you none the less and I firmly stand on how I feel  :beer:

james, really, you need to go through my posts if you are including me in this. never, not once, have i referred to you or DTJ as "axl bashers", others have but i haven't. i have merely pointed out the recent tendency of negativity at the board, and questioned what people who have such negative thoughts about the band are even doing posting at a fan forum, they are better off returning when something happens. do you understand? james, all i have done is agree with someone who pointed out your negativity. next i reacted to a couple of posts of yours, trying to weigh up by being positive about the situation. i have never accused you of being an axl basher, nor have i accused you of not being a fan of his. so i'd appreciate it if you kept me out of this. i don't want you to think i have something against you, when after all i find myself agreeing with alot of what you say and appreciate your knowledge on all things guns n' roses.

I still dont see why you and others like to pidgeonhole me and DTJ as being negative. We discuss facts, and what has led up to those facts, and what could happen based on those facts. If you consider that as being negative, dont blame me and DTJ, blame Axl.

get over youself, all i did was try to keep things positive. the time will come when all of this negativity will be forgotten, and we will all be proud longtime fans.

August, besides your 'get over yourself' line, I agree with what you just said. When this album comes out, we're all gonna be like kids in a candy store. Every post will be positive, except for maybe some negative reviews of certain songs. When CD hits, there will be a huge surge of fan activity here, mostly positive, and after the CD hoopla dies down, alot of people will move on.

i'm not so sure it will die down. imagine how big this is, not only for us hardcore fans but for the musical world in general. guns n' roses, and especially axl, were so huge they have yet to be followed by another band. most people don't think about axl often anymore as he's isolated himself for a long time, but once he goes public again and releases another guns n' roses album there will be an explosion of people remembering him and the talent and entertainment he brought to the world. old fans will buy it, new kids will buy it, axl will get huge attention with this, because no one is doubting his ability to make brilliant music. imagine if the internet existed 14 years ago, when the illusion albums dropped. do you think the interest and the fan activity would just die down? actually, i think as the albums sells, more and more people, both old and new fans, will make the internet fan communities' activity explode.

You are blinded by your own excessive optimism.

no actually i think i agree with him.. well at least with 90% wit wat he is sayin

I tend to agree with you August in this post.  I think that when the album drops, there will be a huge explosion, I also believe that it will sell like crazy in the beginning...but will the buzz die down quick or not and will the sales drop off quick or will he sell 1 million copies or more the first year?  The internet is a coo for Axl cause it's what keeps him alive but the real test is out there in the world because only his hardcore fans are on the internet.

Did I mention I'm a two faced axl basher?  ???

Any inflammatory post I've written here has mainly been in regards to the people around Axl, or at least the people who claim to be around him who make false predictions and state their stupid opinions when they haven't a clue about what's going on with Axl any more than we do.

I just read in another thread that "Chinese Democracy" once again has a 'slated' targeted release - this time the 4th quarter of 2005.? So I asked the question - slated by whom?? As far as I know Axl hasn't spoken a word of it.? As usual I've yet to receive a response.

People tend to get a little confused as to who is misleading them.? Axl hasn't promised anything.? It's the so-called 'know-it-alls' (a.k.a.? know-nothings) that deserve most of the blame for fan-frustration.

Kayoss, you make a decent point, but Axl is partially to blame for this mess. He brought up CD in 1999, hinted it was coming soon, and later on used the term "Big Guns", which he probably regrets, because the term created very high expectations. But you're right, Axl has never given any specific dates, and never will. His bandmembers ramblings have reached the point of absurdity. Mindblowing, earth shattering, a hair's breadth, 95% done, etc. It was pathetic, and got old real quick. I've noticed that they dont say those types of things anymore. Axl must have put them in their place, and rightfully so. We dont need anymore hype. Hype is the only thing that has occured in this long process. I think the album should be allowed to just speak for itself.

No doubt about that, I've always thought that was one of the more boneheaded statements to come out of this entire process.  It's one thing to have confidence in your material, but to go out on that kind of limb was less than smart.  It left me with perception the new tunes he's rolled out were in his mind substandard, giving his audience less than the best. 

The stock some fans throw into the "big guns" theory is borderline idiocy anyway.
Quality is in the ears of the listener, one mans masterpiece is in all liklihood anothers
crap.

Well, AXL lives in his own little Universe anyway. So, he really only cares about what HE considers "big guns". I don't think he was commenting on what Merck thinks are good songs, or Tommy or the record company or whoever.  :hihi: That being said, I do trust Tommy's opinion on the material. Sorry, I do. I know his pedigree and the style of music he likes. Thus, I will remain optimistic about the big gun theory. It doesn't mean the record will be released soon or even ever, but I do hold hope that if Axl is excited about it and Tommy is excited about it and Brain for that matter, that I WILL LIKE IT! Really, that is all that is important to me. Not sales or world tours or magazine interviews or airplay on Modern Rock radio-just the songs and the cd in my hands. :peace:

Axl regret?
Well I doubt it because I hear that as late as this spring GN'R camp informed some fanboard that IRS was not even in their best 10 through a reliable source.

The materials are 8 guys collaboration. It's not like being overconfident about one's work.

I agree that it's not smart to show their ranking business to the fans.
 I'd rather they would put it as their personal fav ranking.
To put Asian and European legs as warm-ups is quite a bad manner, likewise.

I think that true GN'R fans should critizie Axl. It gives us something to pass the time while we wait.

Yeah really.

Don't we all criticize our favorite sports teams?  It's the same difference.  If the Yankees are playing bad I get pissed and get critical of their performance.  It's not "well I hope they play better next time, it wasn't their fault, blah blah blah".  I have probably bought baout 15 copies of AFD and I have earned the right to bitch.

You are totally right. Criticizing is not bashing. Those who criticize Axl for his last 10-12-(14?) years only think that he can do better. I think that he has lot more talent than releasing one song in 12 years and he's more talented than his new live songs show it. Does it make me an Axl basher? Did I lose my 'GN'R fan' status? And if I dare to say that he could communicate with his fans and act like a grown man and not to use his damned wishful thinking... Does it make me an Axl basher? If I think that music is about music and not something that will happen in the future...? And if... if I say that Guns N' Roses wasn't only Axl? Oh yeah, I know the ones who will post that I am not a true fan, just because I'll never wear a Nu-GN'R shirt. Let me tell you somthing: I do not wear the old shirts anymore, I'll never wear a VR shirt. But I'll buy their fuckin' albums if the give me a chance to do that. And I hope I'll like it but it's insane to think that CD will be the best record ever. It can be, but I'd surprised.

You know I honestly think Axl could walk out of his house right now and go on a shooting spree and some of the people on this board would defend it as an act of artistic expression.  Nobody is above criticism...even the mighty Axl Rose.  Axl deserves plenty of criticism.  In fact I think you can even justify full blown Axl bashing.  I love the guy, but if any rock star in the world deserves some bashing its Axl.  You know what will stop the bashing and criticism...a fucking album.  A good album that is.

for f##ks sake.WHY?what do you know that i dont that gives you the right to bash axl.you or anybody else cant bash him coz u dont know f##k all about whats going on.the only thing u can bash is the new songs weve heard and we dont even know what there gonna sound like IF there on the album.even if this was a f###n bon jovi board id defend the guy coz its wrong to comment on shit that u dont understand.so dont give me that f###n shooting spree crap!!!!

Do you have a problem typing the word fuck?  You're right we have no idea what is going on with Axl.  And we can bash him for that.  When other bands go this long without releasing an album they usually give their loyal fans some sort of explanation.  If Axl doesn't think enough of us to give us one, then he can go fuck himself.  You can worship him all you want, has it gotten you anything yet?

I like Axl enough to support the new band, drive 5 hrs one way to see him play (twice) and check for updates. I've been a fan since the very begining and probably always will be.

But I think that I have the right to think that the no show/no explaination in Philly was lame, showing up late to gigs is lame, and the overall secrecy is lame. I can and will say it. I don't think it's two faced at all. I can respect somebody's work but scratch my head at the actions too can't I? Of course I can.