Here Today... Gone To Hell!

http://web.gunsnroses.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070222&content_id=a1&vkey=news&fext=.jsp

mmm.. not much really, no mention of a date although the fact the music is finished is positive...

Hopefully we wont be kept in the dark for 6 months.........

yeah, nice there has been an update, but I hope it's not a brief mention before a long spell of nothing

I guess that means theyre touring again with no new album?

wooo,
something  : ok:

If it comes out May/June that wouldn't be so bad.

Christ, they are still mixing?

every news is good news

mixing is surely going to take a looong ass time - think of how many tracks and takes have been amassed over the years and throw in Axls penchant for perfectionism... mmm .. I think we still have quite a wait on our hands..? :-\

you obviously dont see  the real info.....its done! mixing isnt a long process , but you might want to source out things.

Is it just me, or is it great to finally see someone else on the mainpage of the official site besides Axl?  If this band is going to become as big as we all want them to be the band has to become known to the general public.

I'd imagine the track listing itself is already decided more or less. So its not about mixing 30-odd tracks and then decide which will be featured on CD. More likely 10-odd tracks.

wrong.

check out how long the mixing process took for UYI's (and how many different mixers, mixes and engineers they went through).

mixing can be a short process and it can be a long process - especially when yoiu are dealing with as many tracks and takes as this project has reported to have taken (not to mention Axls inherent perfectionism)

perhaps you may want to source out things? ?:P

Mixing. Mmmk.

"Certain minor, and by that I do mean minor adjustments", eh?  : ok:

Just sayin...

Yeah certain minor adjustments that took 2 and a half months because it was actually recording (NOT adjustments but additions). And now we've got mixing going on, plus mastering. It's at least 2-3 months away I think. Likely a summer release at the earliest.  :( March 6th my ass.

Thank god for that! They've finished the recording!

Hopefully that means they've finished the track selection aswell.

I say that this is good news.  In the GNR camp any news is good news. 

Assuming Del is reliable (he drinks a little too much Axl Kool Aid even for my taste...)- this is GOOD news.

I don't how long mixing will fucking take... but seems like we can officially say that RECORDING is finished. Chinese Democracy is RECORDED. A mile stone has been reached now matter how you cut it. Congrats all around. :beer:

I hope they get it out by Memorial Day (late May) weekend personally...

Dude you obviously know nothing about mixing or mastering. It'll prolly take 1 week max for the mixing, then another few days for the mastering. I think we should have the album by April.


On a side note, Axl stayed true to his word. We have been updated on the album's progress. This is great news.

Well at least its an update. I'm glad they let us now something is going on and keep us a little updated and not just silence. So I say thanks for that. I'll take little tidbits like this any day. Its much better than complete silence and it shows the album is making some progress towards a release. It may not be what we all want, a release date, but its definetly better than nothin. ?:smoking:

GREAT NEWS!!!!!


why are you people so down?!!!
this is the best news ever!!!!

Album will be out soon!!!

Call me stupid, but I don't get this bit...


Um, then why did Axl even announce a tentative March 6th release date to begin with if the album wasn't even completed...?

And all that talk, or should I say blame, about Merck not setting the album up properly for release by the end of 2006 doesn't make ANY sense when the album wasn't even finished until now.


I'm sure I'll get flamed for saying this, but us GN'R fans sure get strung along...

this makes me think that maybe this is all part of a potential surprise promotion.

Is it possible that this update has been sitting around for a while and that the web sight is just being slow to update.

I can still see this as a March releas the complete vageness of the update just makes me think  ???

Completely agree. Guys/personalities like Robin, Tommy, Richard, BBF, Frank etc. need to be taken advantage of. These are all great guys who not only have amazing chops, but most people out there would love to hang out with. Stinson and Fortus, for example, are so cool and rock n' roll without even trying to be.... GN'R needs to take advantage of that angle... and not just be seen as Axl, the old keyboardist whose name sounds like Izzy, and 6 faceless yes men.

To appease everyone who were disappointed when 2006 was not the year after all? He did admit the album wasn't completed, didn't elaborate how much there was to do.

Sweet deal. One milestone reached, time to sprint (or lightly jog) to the finish line.  8)

They could have done a little better with the photo of Frank and Bbf lounging around on the sofa! I mean come on guys how about a pic of Frank on the drums in the studio?

Its important to lend credibility to your statements and whilst I'm genuinely happy the recording has finished a little more work on an update wouldn't harm, for the bands sake alone

it says on the official website that its still in the mixing process at the minute

axl said it would take approx 8 weeks from when its handed over to the record company

so id imagine we are at least 2 months away for a release

late april/may

everything is cool : ok:

1 week max? Most bands take a 1-2 yrs to record a record.

I say a month for mixing up to end march a weeks mastering, all finished before the tour starts. Album is released 6-8 weeks later May or June depending on those darn 'contract negotiations'. And we all know what a pain in the arse Axl can be with those! (quote RIR)

Wow, news!!!  :D

no, less than 2 months: 8 weeks to be on the shelves from the label are already a month, and I don't think the mixing will take other 8 weeks

Fair comment. At a certain point it's up to us to not allow ourselves to be strung along though... there's so much about the Axl-Merck, Axl-Doug Goldstein, Axl-Buckethead, Axl-Paul Tobias, Axl-Slash, Axl-Duff, Axl-Steven, Axl-Stephanie, Axl-Universal, Axl-Sanctuary, Axl-Philadelphia, Axl-Vancouver, Axl-Erin.... relationships that we don't know shit about that it's futile to even put much stock in anything that is said by anybody.... the safer course is to just sit back on the sidelines and applaud actual verifiable news when it does come in (however rarely)- the rest is proceed at your own caution territory. We all love Axl- but this IS Mr. "I want to be late to my own funeral" were talkin' about here...

Oh my! This is something pretty amazing to wake up to! Great news! We are nearly there people! Please dont turn this into a negative thread! All the people who have put some rather depressing posts in this thread already should delete them and start getting a few positive vibes into them! It is happening my fellow Guns N Roses fans!!

Mike

They seem to be really trying to get this our around the South African shows or soon after. I would love to see it come out on my birthday May 1st. What a birthday present that would be.

Release Late April/May.

Soon is the word ;)

I wouldn't mind that. The single release is what I want at this point because it will tide us over until the album. If they give it proper promotion, then a single would need to be out fairly soon (mid-March?).

Ehi guy ... this album will never come out .. and it's a REAL DIE HARD FAN SPEAKIN'.
Don' you remember the mixin' process during UYI:it took almost one year .
Now we're talkin' about over a decade of recordings with 2/3 drummers , 5 or more guitarist and varioous other people involved.
And i want to add another thing: certainly axl will be a supervisor to the mixin' process after all this time spent to wrap the baby up:what happen if mixin' isn't done and there's a world tour to play????

No, there's me too :yes:

Besides, it's a cool picture, and I'm happy that FF is arround, he's awesome :peace:

Good news, recording is now officialy done. Let's hope that the mixing process will go right on track, and that they won't change just like they did during the UYI's mixing.

definitely awesome news.

they updated the show as well by the way : ok:

lol 1 year of mixing? you're getting crazy...  :o

 :rofl: :rofl:

This is indeed good news. Heres to hoping a concrete date is not too far away.

The update is great news. Things are progressing. Just hurry up and release the damn thing  :hihi:

axl said it would take approx 8 weeks from when its handed over to the record company

so id imagine we are at least 2 months away for a release

Perhaps. We'll see though.

Well all new march was optimistic.

The tour is shaping up nicely and its clear that CD is finally in its final final stages of completion!!!

LET THE GOOD TIMES ROLL!!!!!

I apologize if this is a dead horse, so somebody in the know, feel free to give a brief answer: What is the status of GNRs drummer?  Is Frank the new drummer, or do they have two?

Shouldn't be long now.

The recording probably has been completed for a little while now. Its not like they update the site ASAP.

Should get the thing soon we all hope.

GNR are a family,they have two drummers Brain and Frank,tree geetar players,two keeboard etc.. :hihi:


Back on topic

I think they are mixing this album since last year,the Rolling Stone Article said ''we are degusting the mixing'' or somenthing like that,we kwen that Wend Wallace was doing the mix since last year.
This is not a normal album,is not a normal band this is not macdonalds...so the mix work will take the time it takes and some time from them we will have the album.

Is close tham ever,i hope. : ok:

now that is something i would call positive news :

The motherfucker is done
Mixing would not take to much time i assume  :nervous:

CD in april ? possible? Hell yeah i say!!!

thats good news, just what we wanted. it seems like we are getting close, even if the tentative date isnt met

thanks for the heads up

anyone know how long mixing and mastering an album takes, normally?

really they are the last things, to worry about, like a friend MJ pointed out to me, last thing that was mixed into UYI was the crowd chant for Get in the ring, 2 months before it actually was released.

This is good news. We knew it was delayed anyway  :hihi: How about we all be relieved that we might actually get CD this year!!!!! Recording's done! No more making songs, changing songs, lyrics.....whatever has been going on over the years. It's done people. Raise your glasses  :beer:  ;)

fantastic news! ;D
thank you axl, thank you GN'R! :beer:
the wait draws closer to an end! :peace:

Mixing can take quite a while depending on how complex the tracks are (and I would think they are all pretty complex), then its still got to be mastered. Then 8 weeks from then I guess for the promotion to kick in etc. I'd be very suprised if it comes out before the tour starts.

Still its a postive sign things are moving on.

What a cool pic  :hihi:

http://web.gunsnroses.com/images/home/ferrer_bumblefoot.jpg

This is fantastic, there are no more finishing touches to be done. Mixing is a quick process, there's no way it will take more than three months. I think we're looking at a May/June release.

Now all we need to do is pray nobody else leaves and needs their parts re-recording  : ok:

you people who are saying 8 weeks are crazy... blind and naive...

There's mixing and mastering to be done.
I dont think that they'd rush it at the last few steps. Taking into account, that they have a tour, they'll probably try to finish mixing by end of march, and choose the best mixes. while they are on tour, the "8 week process" will begin.
that leaves us with 8 weeks of touring, and assuming that the tour starts mid april, the album would be out no sooner than early/mid june.

which is perfectly fine by me...
also the mixing has been ongoing for a while now, since bumblefoot mentioned the "mixing crew" in his last adress.


if I were to be optimist, i'd say that the "finishing' touches were done on only a few tracks, while the others might have already been mixed for the end of last year scheudled release, and have been waiting since.
still no album before may.

During the last 14 years I've become quite the pessimist, so I'm still not holding my breath. Back in '97 I thought it was 95% done so...
But still, I hope there won't be any more surprises, like parts getting changed or whatever the fuck, and we get it this year... I just don't want to get overly excited (yet again) only to be disappointed.

But at least there's movement  : ok:

I still think this is the start of teh promotion, makes you wonder how long this could have been sitting on the desk for all we know the albums been handed over and we are just waiting on release date to be confirmed.
I wouldnt be surprised if this is a cuning plan to build excitement after all if Better has been played on a radio and there is no cease and desist letters sent could it be the promotion is starting to roll?, leaving an end of March release.

I still believe knowing how long it takes the websight to be updated if the contract talks are in final stages.

 :beer:

This is hell of a good news. It made my day...

Well i guess we've been told. Mixing is going to take a while, there are probably numerous different mixes of various songs, i think its going to be summer that this thing comes out!

Jonx

Thanks Del!  :love:

I think one that way Axl sent us another mesage.
So ,now we are in same position as in 2006,and position is "soon"

That?s good news if you believe what Del James says (im not saying that I don?t completely believe him, but we were told before that the record is done). No track listing, no album release date, and no single mentioned I doubt this album will come out before S.A dates. Most bands give all that info when they are in the mixing stages. In my opinion good news is when someone says that the album is handed over to the record company.

P.s. i really like the production n mixing by Fortus here: http://www.jellifish.com/techniques/mp3/dead_again_mix_1.mp3
 ?

who is del james?

Hooray!

Axls long time friend, now hes tour manager, or at least he was on the last tour!

Jonx

ok thanks,Axl said his name couple times on uyi tour(i 'm talking about boots i have)

Doubt we'll get a track listing until mixing is done, the tracks should then be sequenced and mastered and then handed over to the record company (hopefully). Quickest that mixing can feasibly be done is about 1 track a day, but I imagine this cd will take a great deal longer. Mastering shouldn't take long, providing everyone is happy with the results.

Sounds like good news ... so we'd be inside that 8 weeks now, I assume?  Rock on.   :peace:

I'm wondering if mixing for Better is done already and is sent out to the stations now for them to play.  The song will get people ready for GNR so when the album is finally ready and out, people would be prepped.

It would make sense to get the first single mixed and mastered before the rest of the cd is ready, but with this band who knows?! Seeing as better was scheduled for the harley davidson advert last year I would think that it had already been mixed and mastered, unless the version on the leaked advert was a rough cut and they were waiting for the final version. Or Better may have been one of the songs that Frank and BBF have played on.

Anyone wondering if ALL brains and bucketheads parts have been replaced with BBF and Frank?

It is great news, as any progress is good progress.  I'm grateful for the update, and more hopeful than ever.

As a metallica fan mixing for st anger took three days in New york city , remastering wise.This is 2007 and not 1992 (uyi purposes)


This can be done pretty quickly, most likely just adding fade ins and outs, to songs.A single could be ready , no problem by march 6 th .



I am really happy for you long time fans who have stuck through all the bad and good times along side Axl.

No offense, but St Anger would be a lot quicker to mix than this album (a lot less tracks). I'd be very suprised if it was mixed in 3 days! Maybe mastered, not mixed though (apologies if I am wrong though).

If they are still mixing, they haven't turned it over to the label which means they MAY not be done with contract negotiations- Not necessarily that good of news. However, in the spirit of compromise, I do think it is great that Axl is finally happy with everything recorded-sounds like vocals and all. : ok: Again, I do think it is important that the band members who play live and the ones who are going to launch the cd, are the ones who are on the album. I also hope they re-recorded some of the songs in order to have a more up to date band feel. Being on the road helped them alot, and it will show in the new recordings. The leaks we have just sound ancient-even Better has a cobbled together feel to it. We need fresh recordings from a "new band"-not recordings with 6-7 different guitar players and three drummers, yada yada. :peace:

Mixing involves getting the levels right for every track (i.e. there will be seperate tracks for each guitar, drum, vocal, backing vocal, bass, keyboards etc), getting the EQ right on them, placing them in the stereo image, compressing them, possibly adding more effects (e.g. reverb), then getting everything to sound nice and work together. It isn't a small job by any means. If they are mixing in 5.1 then the job is much larger as well.

I hope the mixing has been going on for a few weeks now (as has been quoted) as it will take a while.

Nice to get an update.  Looks like CD will actually see the light of day "soon" this time!

Let's hope the mixing has already begun, but we can only hope, not I guess all left to be done is.

Mix the album
get the right package and stuff.
Getting a single out+video
some promotion.
tour like not much but a few dates. like a warm-up show with some more songs(if they are planning to add new songs to the shows)
and then the album

"Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron "Bumblefoot" Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt."

So, does this mean Brain is out?
Or we will have two drummers on the album?

Vicente

We'll find out soon I guess.

If Brain won't tour with them this year, and Cd comes out, just look at the back of the cd and find who's drumming.

I always believed when they said Brain is out for family stuff.

I'f he realy feels like GNR is his thing he should be back now. or take his family with him on the road.

And I thought that tellnig brain was out only make things take longer so I guess they could have wnanted for things to run smoothley now.
I think Axl told them like Now it's time to work your ass of this album needs to be out soon.

You know, I thought there was at least two or three different people claiming to be mixing the New Guns N Roses Album. Perhaps Each has their alloted songs and this could be a faster process than we think.

BTW it is nice to have other members besides Axl on the front page!

Good news definitely.

Although if they had aimed to get it released around March 6th, this really should have been done several weeks ago. Nevermind that though, I'm extatic!

Just hope the mixing and mastering isn't too long and strenuous and we should hope for that badboy to be handed over to the label within 3 weeks(? possibly).

dont beleive it yet boys and girls! :P

This is starting to sound like it is going to be "fall, late fall" again!


Then again...maybe Axl is purposely trying to release Chin Dem when Velvet Revolver's new one comes out and then we will have a battle of the bands to end all battle of the bands.  Now that's what I'm talking about!

Well, what stage is VR's album at? Thats due out in June...

Agreed. It?s probably those tracks that BBF and Frank have added something to that are in for final mixing.. We have had a few mixing rumours from pretty trustworthy sources so that makes sense. I would guess it is about 2-4 tracks that hasn?t been mixed yet so.. I would say mid/end of may :beer:

I doubt VRs album is as complex recording as CD sounds, no disrespect to them. I'd hazard a guess at CD coming out late May, early June if no other problems surface. Hopefully I'll be proven wrong though and it will be out sooner.

I agree with some of the posts above. "Mid-May" to "Early-June" makes sense as we all know they're at the mixing stage now. That's plenty of time for promotion, single etc. Although it could well be after this leg of the world tour. Which could well be "Early-June" time.

1. Mix the album - Axl not happy -  back to the drawing board - or Axl is happy and:
2. Get the right package and stuff - I think the cover photo was decided on years ago. So step 2 is  easy
3. Getting a single out+video - Get the album out and then decide on a single and video, as that could take years  ;D
4. Some promotion. - This no good, look what happend to Merck. Axl wants the best promotion on offer + more  8)
5. The band is past warming up. There touring agin already. They just need to keep going until it's time to hit the UK again.

I don't know whether I should feel optimistic or disappointed by this update.   :-\

Disapointment, at least for me.

Nowhere does it say those adjustments have taken up until now to finish.


There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along.

Once again you're assuming it's all up to the band....  ::)




/jarmo

i think its fantastic theyve confirmed the album is completed, some shows have been announced for japan, and that the band will start touring by april 14th so the album shouldnt be too far behind

Ok, new tour is comming soon. If recordings are ready maybe there is possibillity to hear new songs?

I agree with you. I believe the album will come out late april/mid may...lets cross our fingers! :beer:

Yeah!!!!!! Boring!!!!!!

Hey! The Mixing is one of the final things to do on a record and it can be done in a couple of days!
Calm people! This is the first time in GNR history, we know the album is beeing Mixed!
Its just a matter of SHORT time now  : ok:

I believe you're talking about the mastering... The mixing takes a while longer. But either way, GREAT NEWS!  :beer:

Isn't there a couple of different people claiming to be mixing it? If that is so, it could be a faster way of getting quality mixes done.

They are in the process of mixing. That doesn't mean that they just started.

Yes, I know.. but I don't think the mixing can be done in two days. (Like: they start up one day and finish up the day after)

i'd say the album most likely will be out in May now...

I think its very positive to say that the music is done, and the BBF and Frank recorded parts.  However, it was 2004 when tommy said all that needed to be done was mastering

yeah could, but still late april or may sounds a bit optimistic. but i'm really hoping we have a single and the official release date by then. if the album is not out by june it will be fall / late fall again... 100% - for big albums are almost never released in july/august.

After 14 years great news. ;D

The mixing has been started almost month ago? Right?

months ago, that's what we are hoping... but maybe the andy wallace mixes were just some test-mixings, for the frank/bumble/finishing touches parts were partly recorded a bit later... and axl might as well go back to studio again, as he has done before. just because the albums seems to be finished today, doesn't mean it's still finished tomorrow. here today, gone to...

Mixing has been going off and on for years-literally. So quit guessing where they are in the process. It is a clear step forward that Axl is happy with the recordings and the recordings are officially complete.  :peace: Just be happy with that right now.

Based on what's previously been reported (26 of 30-32 songs finished, Andy Wallace mixing in the summer), my bet is that whatever was recorded over the last two months is currently being mixed.  You don't need to have every song recorded to commence mixing on the songs that are already through that process.  Many times, bands will mix the single, release that, then mix the rest of the album in the run up to the release date. 

Again, this is GNR, so saying "many times" or "usually" are not always pertinent.  I know that the new Silverchair album took a couple of months to mix (they were in Toronto over the past two months) and their music has become more and more intricate, so you've got to figure that for GNR this process won't take longer than a month, maybe two.  Mastering can be done in a couple of days, it's just matching levels.

All in all, it's better than no news...

Cheers,

Andrew

So now theres no release date, they arent bound to anything and they are going back out on tour. ?This album will be out late this year at the very best. ?Mixing can take a long time especially on an album with many different layers. ?Not to mention 8 weeks at the very best from the time its turned into the record company. ?This is meaningless and just more stringing along. ?Axl told fans that March 6 was a possible release date and it sounds as if they have no plans to turn the album into the record company before March 6. ?Mixing the album just means that they arent done. ?Good news will be when they turn in the album to the record company. ?Axl can still change things, add things etc... ?People who are excited about this are just getting themselves worked up for another let down. ?Most albums dont take 14 years, and you are all expecting them to mix this album faster than normal bands? ?I am guessing we are about a year away from this album actually being released.

No news would have been better because if they were about to turn this into the label I bet they would have waited till it was turned over and then make an announcement.  I am guessing we will get a rather long dry period about this album and then the band will go on tour.

Nice update.

Many of you were saying you want to hear about the status of the album and here you are!

i believe some tracks that have been done for some time might have already been mixed... perhaps they are just mixing the songs that bumblefoot and frank made additions too. all i know is that the mix for an album like this (with all the industrial/piano/sythns that i think will be on it) with be a hell of a task (i meant ability wise not time wise). i think this will be a very dense layer album. can't wait.

peace out

I aggree with everything here. ?This "announcement" leaves a bad taste in my mouth. ?I wasn't really sure why, untill just now.

There's something really bad about this...not in the announcement itself, but by who is credited with making it. ?Del James? ?Why would they have him make this "announcement"? ?It was short and simple so why could'nt Axl have made this announcement himself? ?The only answer I can come up with is this. ?They didn't want Axl to make this statement because then he can't be the one blamed much later when there is still no sign of the album's release or when we once again hear that there's more recording to be done. ?It just seems weird to me that Axl himself would'nt make this statement.

well  he`s obviously too busy mixing :hihi:

It was an ok update...

But touring again without a fucking album is ridiculous.

Well, Axl is not the webmaster.. so its not his Job.
I dont see how people can be so negative about this news. I think its great! Mixing, and mastering, handing it over.. And im sure alot of the promotion is ready to go, when the album is handed over.. I think May could be a good shoot! Its one of the best months to release albums! Im sure that when they announce the tour for the summer, we will see a gap when it will be released... well, not sure, but i do belive!
Nice to have a update! But people still seems to complain.. thats sad!

I'm sorry that doesnt figure. axl knows he would still get the flak regardless of whos name is on the statement. we are not idiots - we know that this statement must be approved of by axl or it wouldnt still be up there. now if it gets taken down for any reason other than more big news, that would be a bad thing id agree

on another issue, Could someone give me a very simple ecplanation in baby talk of what mixing and mastering are? i know you can research tis kinda thing on the net but itd be great if someone could just give me the bottom line, in so far as possible...?

You got an update. Be grateful ?:hihi:

Axl is not currently managed by anyone so it was good of Del to post an update to the website. ?:peace:

People are pissed because claims before have been made about mixing.

Still no release date or single release date.

Touring in Asia and Africa without an album.

Having a short update like that.

Its been a long wait and many of us have heard this story over and over again.

So why we are pissed is cause we have been through this shit, and it doesn't seem promising.

AND

Well I am grateful for the update but its like argh argh argh.

I belive the Mixing is turning up and down the volum on each instrument, and make it sound the best way.
I belive mastering, is when the album is put together and they are doing minor things like fading the tracks, introludes and stuff.. just make the whole thing
fith and sound like a final product...

am i right?

Ok...then why not just slap Axl's name on the statement? ?I'm sorry, but this really is reminiscent of "there's only 13 Tuesday's left" being said from one of Axl's representatives and not Axl himself.

This sucks.

Sorry for the lack of originality.

That's all I have at this point.

there's much more to mixing than to turn up or down the volume of certain instruments; it's not the garage band thing, where you decide on which side you have the instruments; mastering means that the cd will sound fine on any cd player; it also influences things like the dynamics of the songs etc.

Well, for a perfeccionist like Axl mixing and mastering can take a long time, so he will have to choose what songs will make the cut and the order of the tracks, that may take several months, but how will he do this while touring?

he MUST finish the album before the tour, everything, or we will have a LONG delay.

this update doesn't make me happier. I'm sorry you all have the right to be optimistc, I have the right to be pessimist (realistic?).

this things is getting tired and old, it's not fun anymore, the small news don't cheer me anymore, I'm so doubtful about the future...

ok i do see what you mean. axl unquestionably used merk as noothing more than a scapegoat, when the truth was probably a bit of axls statement and a bit of merks. and he may do this to del, but del and axl are very long time friends, and merk probably wasnt blameless.

but all that aside, if axl does scapegoat del, he knows that we know what he's doing, so i dont believe he would do it again. he should know when a card can only be played once, and in the internet age, he knows that we are keepin as much of an eye on things as we can, and that we aint stupid and he shouldnt treat us as such.

I 'd assume that a lot of songs from CD were already mixed and mastered by the end of 2006 anyway. So that might only leave us with the mixing process for abbou 2 or 3 songs maybe (pure speculation). So the album could easily hit the stores in late april.. Or am i a just another total fool? don't answer!! i know what you'd say ?:hihi:

What? So who's doing whatever stuff managers do?

They didnt say anything about mastering. ?They said they were still mixing. Its an update which is nice and I dont want to be overly negative. ?I just hate being led on. ?This statement was obviously made to placate the fans, thats what worries me. ?Its not a detailed announcement, the delays are not explained. ?It was just issued to calm people mad about March 6 not being the date. ?My question is how on earth did Axl think he could get this album out before the end of the year last year if they had not even finished recording and were on tour? ?Something is wrong here and I am not sure what it is, but to me this wasnt a real update as to going on, it was just another announcement to string people along. ?

Axl can do whatever he wants, I really dont care how he treats fans, hes a musician not a diplomat, but I really wish he was just more honest. If the album is really done how about releasing a track list or some evidence that things are done. ?How could they come up with a "tentative release date" 2 months ago, but now theres no information about any release. ?To me they might as well have written "No March 6 and no information as to why no album or when" ?in fact that would have been better because it would feel more honest and not string people along.

Also if this album is not turned in before they go on tour anyone actually think itll be turned in while they are on tour, i mean you actually think Axl wouldnt be a perfectionist about the mixing? ?This is a guy who got rid of every person who disagreed with him, who spent 14 years on one album and 13 million dollars on it. ?Pretty much gave up his prime to work on this album and youre going to tell me hes going to hurry and get it ready or allow someone else to mix it? ?Im just hoping for a late 2007 release, but I think that mixing will probably take a few months and a tour is going to add time to that.

hahaha

goodbye 2007...

recording was already done in 2002, this "news" means nothing.

At this point I'm forced to do nothing but feel the exact same way.

Well, i know that.. but someone wanted babytalk, and i gave them the best babblebabble i could...
i dont know much about this.. but like a poster above said.. much of the mixing could have been done the fall 2006. So
i dont think this will be an endless process like many people think.. Mostly Bumble and Franks layers... People who do this kind of jobs
are Pro, and know what they are doing, so i trust them..

Haha, seriously, who the hell is booking all of these festival dates. ?I highly doubt Axl is doing this all by himself. ?Also, wouldnt not having a manager with some legal mind just add to delays? ?I really dont believe Axl is negotiating all these bookings, setting up the travel arrangements, dealing with the record company, paying bills etc... ?Also whose going to negotiate promotional opportunities, release dates, new contracts etc...with the record company when the album is released. ?Im sorry but something is really weird here.

sad thing for many of us seems, that we had a certain date (march 6th) and now we only know that things gonna need some more time. which is indeed pretty vague; BUT: if the album is handed over to the record company before the touring starts, a video is by then shot and a single on its way, i'm fine with that.
if the record won't be out till june i'm gonna be pissed, for a mid-summer release is not too likely for cd.

cool news :beer:

so recording is finally done and the bbf and frank recordings are confirmed. : ok:

also seems they have worked out a reelase schedule and are finally mixing for real this time.....maybe :-\ :hihi:

Of course the whiners are complaining... "already been said 2 years ago" "del wrote it.." bla bla bla...

BUT this time it's really different, don't you feel it? Axl wants to release it, the band wants to release it! We are informed about CD's status, we get inside information...

I've the feeling that "soon" is the word... Wether it's april may or june, we will see it within the next couple of months! ?:beer:

Thanks for the info guys. But how could mastering change the dynamics of the songs if the songs are already recorded?

The last line is what really worries me. ?"Things APPEAR to be moving along."

How anyone could take this as being positive I will never know. ?They make broad excuses, pump the new guys and then state that from the looks of things the album is "moving along." ?I mean im going to buy the album whenever it comes out, but I like this band, i want to hear a lot of music from them, and each month that passes GNR loses fans and possible fans. ?If this album does poorly itll probably the last we see of Axl till 2012. ?

I guess the "appearance" of progress is enough to excite some info starved megafans, but this flat out sucks.

No...I don't "feel it". ?People need to stop relying on what they feel in their hearts in regards to the release of this album. ?It's weird.

Dont read to much into words.. overthinking over analyzing is good in real life, but not in a gnr statment.. :hihi:

Sure it's weird. But nevertheless it's the only thing to understand music - feeling. But even in a "mechanical" way, this IS good news. We know that recording is done and that they are mixing right now!

Sure would have been nice to hear Axl say this, though.

axl is back, guns n roses ? is the fenix

i'm no expert either; but there are certain people in the industrie who master cd's, that are known for giving the songs more edges or more dynamics; even if the songs is already recorded you can change the way parts sound (beyond just the loudness etc.). somewhat of an answer?

How is it overthinking to know the definition of "appear". Appear= give a certain impression or have a certain outward aspect. ?He did not say things are moving forward, he said things "appear" or "give the impression" that they are moving forward. ?Pretty much he said nothing. ?Things have "appeared" to be moving along since 1994.

ok, thanks again for the help! ?:beer:

And what's the difference? Del said it - he's more an insider than everyone here. I believe he knows pretty everything concerning CD! Axl is NOT a webmaster and Del has his own column on gunsroses.com... So why not?

Wasnt Merc an insider as well.  You put a buffer up when youre going to lie, that way YOU can never be caught in backpeddling.

Why? The same Axl that brought us the... "We'll be back next summer with a whole bunch of new songs..."? Not even Axl has complete control over THIS monster. Someday. Sometime. Axl... management... the label.... the lawyers... and all other interested parties... will ALL be on the same page about all this- and then it will be time to get really fucking psyched.

Completing recording is a big deal though. It means the band has substantially delivered on one of their primary obligations and the whole thing gets to progress a step. But the other people who have a say in this need to make some progress on their end too.

but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving

he used the word simply because scheduling dident apper to go as planed.... Its just the art of writing good..

Exactly.

"Its just the art of writing good."  I really hope this was a joke...I really hope that.

You say Del is lying? I've never seen more whiners than among GnR fans...

I don't get it - why is it so hard to understand that real insiders (like Del) know more than yourself. We have to trust them and we can do because there are several indications that CD is near.

And I think that Axl never lied intentional! There are so many things around (laywers, negotiations...) that it's very hard to say something reliable...

Your clever... sometimes a smily can say more the 100 words.. guess i forgot to use it in my other post.. ?:hihi: ?:peace:
Chill out.. Take it as good news..

How many fans do you know have had to put up with this stuff and still remain this loyal and into the badn.

Oh no, Im not saying Del is lying, he said "things appear to be moving along" and i am sure to him they do.  I also think he said what Axl told him to say, i dont think its a lie hes just relaying the info.

Lawyers?  Axl doesnt even have a manager right now, what are these lawyers doing, who on earth could they be still negotiating with right now.  I love how fanatics always say that realists speculate, then they talk about all the lawyers and negotiations, with who?  Most legal documents are open to the public, if he was involved in some giant legal dispute we would know about it. 

Negotiations?  negotiating what? Nuclear weapons ban in North Korea.  This is an album, what on earth are they negotiating.  Every person who participated in recording was paid and if they left they left on their own.  Its well known Axl has been very litiigious throughout this entire process and has made almost every person involved sign legal documents handing all the rights to Axl.  I forget who sent Axl some lyrics and got a letter back from his lawyer demanding that he signed over the rights to them. (think it was mentioned in the Spin article).

Yeah people whine, but their whines still cant be droned out by the new cd.

Here's a question for all of those who say this is just like in the past:

When was the last time you heard this regarding Chinese Democracy: all of the recording for the album has been completed?

Did they say so in 2006? 2005? 2002?

I sure as hell don't remember reading something like that before.

But obviously things are just like before because you say so.....  ::)



/jarmo

Tommy said all the recording was done in 2004 in some European interview if I remember right.  Also didnt Bach say he had heard the finished album?

No.  We've heard better than this in the past.  We've heard "the album is definately coming out this year" in 2006. 

i guess Axl could have played the album to people before it got mixed.. Or maybe with a poor mix. And remember they were close to release the album fall 2006. But Axl wanted Bumble and Frank to be on it.. And i think that is great! Since theyr now in the band...

Tommy may have said this and that.. but alot was going on with Buckethead leaving the band which change the situation...

And again, did Seb Bach said the finished album? or just the album at that time?

Sure.

But you didn't answer the question.

Recording wasn't done at that point.....


/jarmo

First: Thanks Jarmo! I totally agree...

Concerning Laywers: Yeah sure every legal document is public. That's just BS! Axl himself pointed to several legal issues he was dealing with... And we did NOT know...

And calling me a fanatic is just hillarious. As "fanatic" as I try to be optimistic , you and all the whiners out there are trying fantaticly to be pessimistic...

And only simple minded people think that releasing an album is only making music. There is so many stuff to care about. To negotiate with promoters, directors, labels, music stations and so on...

And sure there will be less whiners when CD is released, but is it really fair? Complainig instead of supporting in times GnR needs support?

Didn't somebody just say that Tommy said it a long time ago?

That had little to nothing to do with it, he wasn't finished with his parts.

Which is why I see this news as a decent step in the right direction. Waiting for Axl is the hardest part.

No disrespect but it's coming apparent that the rest of the band has limited knowledge on the completion status. This is official, and that's a first.

So, recording is done, I am expecting to see what will be the next excuse, I'm betting on legal stuff next time.

Name a legal issue Axl said he was involved in that wasnt public.

Youre right, yeah, negotiating with promoters, directors, labels, music stations...thats a great point, they should be doing these things, but wait...how can they be doing these things without a freakin manager. Thats nonsense. ?either that stuffs done or its not being done because as Mysteron said earlier this thread GNR has no manager right now.

Oh no .. I bet the next step will be another member departure ... so some tracks will be re-recorded...

Yeah.  You're right.  Hearing it from an actual member of the band is meaningless.  But if we hear it from a friend of Axl who may or may not be the band's road manager we should beleive it.

Im sure we dont need to worry about that.. Im sure there is someone taking care of stuff like this. Just because they dont have an official manager at this time.. there is alot of people involved around the band.. you dont need to be under Mercks charge to do this... just trust them!
Who knows.. Del James, Beta, and people from the record company could be doing stuff like that... no big deal. And who knows.. maybe they have a manager for all we know.. It seams like lots of people have the attitude that, if it aint official, thing isnt moving forward..

No smartie pants, Axl allowing it to be on the official site is reason for it to be true, at least more true.

I shall name a legal issue that wasn't public? Well, how should this work? ?:rofl: Axl said so, so there is truth in it!

Negotiations have to be done... Wether they have a manager or not. I believe for example Beta or Del or someone we don't know can handle this. But it has to be done! Why, well even if there were plans in end 2006 they changed til now. It's not like: "Hey I wanna release a CD... What about tomorrow?"



And at all: I simply don't get it! So much negativity... This is good news and half of this thread is just whining... Sad but true...

This is great news, but I would love to hear from Axl again.

So you say negotiations and such are cause for delay, but that its no big deal if they have random associates with the band handling this stuff? ?All of your logic is just false.

Axl allowed Merck to say the album was going to be out in 2006 and Axl said it himself, that means nothing. ?THis news means nothing except that the album is not finished or turned into the record company. ?Thats all people should take from this. ?Everything else is just silver lining.'

You said there were legal issues axl mentioned that we didnt know abotu that till then...What legal issue are you talking about. ?You just spew fanboy nonsense.

There seems to be a real pattern in how we get information about this. ?It's something like this: 1) Somebody from the band says something promising, but sort of vague. 2) A bunch of waiting and silence. 3) Someone not in the band but associated with them says something that gan be construed as either good or bad news, depending on how you look at it...still vague, though. ?4) A bunch more waiting and silence. ?5) Axl finally says something that seems promising...untill... 6) We hear from a band member again and the cycle starts all over again.



I guess we're on step 3 right now.

WOO HOOOOO!!!   recording done, it shouldn't be too much longer now.  yessss


p.s. how cool is it that we have frank and ron's pic on the gnr page???

You all need to chill out abit. ?I have been waiting just as long as you have. ?It will come out when it comes out - your complaining will have no impact on the albums release date.

We have no idea what is holding up the album, an I could care less. ?I'm still happy that the GN'R wheels are turning - i have been extremley grateful for '06 and what will be in '07.

Take your time and do it right.

-Peace-

Fine Danny, just keep waiting for those faxes and don't take what the band says on their official site as news.

Every time the same thing...




/jarmo

Again people are not complaining about when the album will be out, they are complaining about issues such as another tour with no album, having no manager, and stringing people along. ?Oh and whining and bitching obviously does help get responses from the band because whenever people are about to burst we get another update. ?

So its cool say its sweet that recording is done for now, but every tour thus far band membrs have been lost, what do you think will happen if Tommy (who does have a temper) gets mad at Axl on this tour and leaves, why even risk it. ?Would we have to wait for them to get a new bassist and let him record parts.

And you just spew BS! Tell me how should I know, about legal issues that weren't/aren't public? Tell me... But Axl said that there were some, so this is the truth...

Obviously you are just too blind to see what's obvious. The label cut the money years ago and perhaps even there was a legal arguement. So it must be re- negotiated concerning a CD release. And there are so many things that must be done, and since no fix release date is set yet, negotiating with promoters or music stations or pressing companies can't be done.

Merck made these statements on his own... "12 tuesdays left" is just a statement of Merck, not by Axl. And this is the reason Merck got fired.

And obviously you aren't able to read. "The recording is done" so most part of CD is ready... Stop being such a whiner...


EDIT: Every time the same thing.... (Jarmo, two posts above...)

Hi jarmo - what are you hinting at? Are you implying that there are other things going on in the background, ie - legal stuff/ contractual red tape? If so, why? And how long is it gonna take?

He doesn't know, but that shit is normal, especially with Axl involved.

How the hell does a tour with no album affect you? If it bothers you so much, don't go. Oh wait, I bet you don't even live in Japan or South Africa.....

The manager issue shouldn't really bother you at all. I don't know when you became a member of the band since it affects you so much.

You don't know when the album is gonna be released, you just assume things.



/jarmo

Youre right, it would be nice to have someone with a law degree breakdown the American judicial system. ?Oh wait...I have a law degree. ?Whenever an attorney files a motion or goes through courts and whenever there is a new cased filed it must be reported in either Westlaw or Lexisnexis. ?If there are confidentiality agreements they are done so during the actual legal process, the initial complaint as well as any subpoenas, discovery requests etc... which would be necessary to proceed in almost every legal matter are open to the public. ?Wow, stop posting if you know nothing.

Merck did not make those statements on his own. ?Axl even acknowledged in his letter that Merck had made him believe that the album could be out them. ?Axl in concert made numerous statements that the cd would be out in 2006. ?

I love when someone accuses another of not being able to read and then follows that statement with the line "The recording is done so most part of cd is ready." ?Horrible English such as that is very difficult to read I must admit, but I understand what Del James said very well.

All CD contracts are done during the signing process. Axl cannot renegotiate and I dont think he would want to considering the money the record company spent on this. ?Again who is doing these very important negotiations (which dont exist) if GNR doesnt have a manager. ?If these were crucial dont you think that the first thing Axl would do is hire a new manager. ?Mysteron knows more about this than any of us and he said there is no manager right now.

How does a tour with no album affect me?  Because every tour GNR has LOST members.  Why risk it this time again, why go through the same old thing again.  It doesnt affect me that I would cry about it or kill myself, but it does enough that I would be pretty upset about it, the same way I would be if my favorite basketball team left the city or lost the championship game. 

And its not assuming things when someone says that there are legal issues, negotiations etc... Or that the album will be out soon.  That is more assumptions than anything else.  I am making educated guesses based on the situation and judging from past situations with this band and with other bands in similar situations.

Ouch. ?I just got jarmo'd. ?Come on, man. ?You're better than that.


Look...I'm not trying t be a whiner or a complainer here. ?I was excited when I logged into the site this morning and saw the headline "Chinese Democracy Update". ?Then I read it. ?Then I read that it was credited to someone other than Axl. ?I'm sorry, I'm just not excited about this like I'd like to be. ?I was excited in December when there was an official statement from Axl himself, but it just seems like they are going in the direction of another cover-up. ?To me, it looks like this tiny statement was made and posted on the front page of their website for the soul reason to NOT have the "March 6th" date posted there.

Why are we assuming they have no manager?

They're still managed by Sanctuary, right?  Sanctuary has a team of managers....on what basis are we assuming NONE of them are currently performing the role (possilby interim) of managment for GnR?

#1. You can't beat jarmo's loyalty. That dude deserves a medal for being the whipping boy for all GnR fans. And can you think of a band that you'd less wanna be the whipping boy for? He's got a job to do and he does the best he can.

#2. Del's announcement means absolutely nothing to the fans. Sure it says the recording is complete, but who, for one second, doesn't think Axl might decide he wants to do some more recording tomorrow? Just come out and say that the album won't be out on March 6th (Axl still hasn't done that) and that you'll tell us when the album has been turned over to the record company. Finally, at that point, we'll know that a release is emminent.

I understand the argument that we should look at progress announcements in an optimistic light, but it's real hard given the history. I look back at the '06 North American tour and I'm conflicted. Sure I had a blast at the show, but the entire time leading up to the show I was under the impression that we were gonna get CD either before or soon after. Then when I come to find out that that tour was a cash-grab to finish the album, I feel icky. Like I was personally con'd by Axl. Forgive me if my view of GnR has turned pessimistic, but it didn't change over night. Perhaps I will some day look GnR in an optimistic light, but again, it won't change overnight.

sometimes I think the band pays jarmo for his comments...;)

Was about to ask the same thing...? I went through the thread and found this, which is the only basis for the assumption that I know of.

There are many, many, many legal issues (as you well know) that don't require sitting before a judge.  Many, many legal claims are handled between legal firms, and their respective attorneys, long before even seeing a suit filed.  You file a suit when you can't come to an agreement with a party.  Usually, there is a whole host of legal wrangling LONG before a suit is filed.  In addition, contracts are negotiated and legally binding agreements are reached.  There's a whole HOST of "legal issues" that could have occured that wouldn't require one iota of public paperwork.

Hmm, I know Mysteron is usually dead on, but...I'd love to see him clarify.

Gnr has NOONE managing them?  I find that difficult to believe.  I'd believe it's "management by proxy", using the Sanctuary team, but I'd be floored if there was NOBODY performing managerial functions for them.  It woulda been awful hard to book any sort of tour....

Yeah I felt the same way I just didn't want to think about it too hard.  It might make me feel like some kinda loser...

The recording is finished. The world tour is beginning soon.
Axl doesn't determine the street date for the CD.
That's what the record label's marketing team is for.

Why can't you just take this as good news, as I'm sure the wheels are in motion now.

am I the only one not beliving 100% that rumor about that andy wallace was mixing the album months ago, many seem to belive that but wasn't that just another "my friends dad who works there and knows billy who is wallace's brother in law and he said....." thingie?

I cant belive something that should of been one of the most postive and well received bits of news in a long time concerning the band and the album has been reacted to, and dealt with by a good number of people who are GnR fans. What is wrong with being positive and sticking by the band we all love? If I can do it having been a fan since the very beginning and so can many others, then why cant some of you people who just whine and moan for the sake of it? Are you the same people who whinged about some of the gigs last year when you were not even in attendance? We are in this for the long run and you should keep the faith really! If not then thats cool its your life but dont come to a website that is for fans and fucking depress people with your constant whining.

Mike

I don't know if you're right or not. But I can't imagine every legal statement by a private person being publshed by a commercial company.


Axl acted in good faith than he made those statements. Whatever stopped the process, we do not know. You don't.


Mysteron said that there is no manager right now. That's right, but isn't GnR still managed by Sanctaury? The position of GnR's manager might be not staffed but still there is the manager team of Sanctuary... Moreover there is Beta or Del...


I really can't remember that the 2006 tour moved a member of GnR to leave the band.


You are guessing based on your opinons. Well, you're opinion doesn't count. But Axl's or Del's does. And Del said that recording is done. Consequently CD is coming soon. That's it. (and in this connclusion there is not much assumption)

Andy Wallace did mix it- the guys from Talking Metal even said.

who's whining now? ::)



just kiddin' ?:hihi: yeah i know what you're saying and i feel the same way even though i've only been a real die-hard since 2004-ish

this from del is fucking great :headbanger:


yeah but they have the same sources as we right or did bbf say anything to them? or maybe i'm just have a bad memory sorry if so :peace: :hihi:

i think that rumour was based on the article by the well known magazin im not sure we're allowed to mention, with which merck aparently cooperated.

Thats not whining my man, that is being very disillusioned with people who are meant to be fellow fans and cant seem to keep the faith all the way! Glad you agree with the post though! Mike

Honestly, this is good news. Finally the recording process is done. Mixing an album can take relatively little time, here's hoping for an album before the summer. These tour dates that are confirmed are in Japan ans South Africa, places they didn't go to during the tour last year. I think that if GN'R tour this summer the album will be out before that tour starts. This is just my opinion... we at least got an update, be happy about that.

^^the whining part was a joke : ok:



i wonder when we'll get the tracklist since they must have decided wich songs they'll put on CD, or maybe they'll save that to next time something gets delayed again :-X :hihi:

Axl is not currently managed by anyone. Sanctuary are no more on the scene.

A request was sent to Del to give you guys an update on CD. He has now done that.

I know you are probably disappointed Mar 6th is not going to happen, but the news is positive nonetheless.

So, recording is done (provided Axl doesn't suddenly decide something needs re-recorded). Now we have mixing and mastering before the cd gets released. My money is on July at the earliest, and part of me thinks it could end up being November. I think it'll be out in 2007 (keeping fingers crossed).


Atleast Axl kept his word about keeping the fans informed on the progress. It may have come from Del instead of Axl himself, but it's good enough for me.

I must say this process teaches me a bunch of new stuff on the music industry that i knew nothing about




Thank you Guns N' Roses for all the delays.


(this is a joke even though it's kinda true :hihi:)

wow thanks for that info Mysteron....so now there is one less hand in the GnR pie (sanctuary) so hopefully one less person in on the final decision process that has to be good news

Thanks for the info Mysteron.  Any idea how far along they are in the mixing process? 

i'm happy we have so many "insiders" on this board, can you shed some light on excactly where and when axl invited you to take part in his contract negotiations? ::)

So one less obstacle on the way of approving it?

Maybe Del is the webmaster? (probably not)

and yeah this is positive and thank u 4 clearing stuff up :beer:

out of curiosity mysteron....what is the status of sanctuary owning the publishing rights of axl/gnr? :-\

Just to gain a little perspective, here's an article from last year about Stadium Arcadium (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/9499280/chilis_reveal_secrets_of_stadium), and it says in mid-February they were still mixing. As far as I know they finished recording in December of 2005.

The album was first released May 5th in Europe.

Chinese Democracy has about the same timeline...

Appreciate all your updates!? : ok:? ?Not too disappointed about March 6th... the first 50 or so delays were frustrating, but after a while, you roll with punches.? :peace:

I do realize who we're talking about here, but all your estimations are way too long. Mixing, even for professional albums is usually one month max: even on complex albums. Mastering is usually a very short process (usually a week): once again even on complex albums. ?

A.K.A. Late April or Early May

I also want to add that there are reports of Andy Wallace doing mixes way before which leads me to believe that they are just mixing down Frank and Bumble's parts. Andy said that everyone was "delighted with the mixes" sometime last year. Think about it.

I do not know anything about that

I'm glad I never got my hopes up for March 6th. :)

... here we are in February 2007 and Axl has finished recording "Chinese Democracy".

... what I don't get is - why's he rushing this thing...?

By whom?

I have a feeling that his name starts with "J" and ends with "armo".

Jackamo.(http://forum.xbconnect.com/images/smilies/smiley16.gif)

Is Brain Mantia out of the band??  :beer:

I'm curious as to what happened to Brain... they never mentioned why he left the band (well, at least it's pretty clear to me that he's out)

^^ what a troll :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Because of his family.

Frank is better.

Is that official? sorry, if it is I missed it

Anyway, I agree that Frank is better

 ::) mixing


ya ok



i'll believe it when we see it, but this is a step backwards IMO



we went from a tenative date to no date at all



at least we did get an update though ?:)

Brain isn't out.

Stop saying he is- it's confusing some.

Brain himself said that he'd rock out with axl & co in 2007.

Yeah I'd be surprised if the ever unhappy bunch said happy for once.  ::)


It's very nice of del and whoever sent it to him,  whether mysteron or jackamo :hihi: to oblige us with the update.


That was in regard to a new date/official date and not to the progress. 

 yeah ppbebe

some people will never be happy. it`s always the same...

first they bitch about the silence and say, that they want an update. then they get one and they?re still bitching....  i mean seriously... how someone is able to whine about the fact, that chinese democracy is recorded and now being mixed is beyond me.

as of yesterday, axl could`ve been recording a ballad album with the help of the singer of aerosmith for all we knew :-X (i`m not sure with whom he was supposed to record one..... it doesn`t matter anyways)

Good news!  :beer:

What's the point in giving another tentative release date now, when they're clearly pretty close to getting an official one? Essensially, that's what this update told us...

cool (i guess :hihi: ) thanks though... :beer:

I know of very few legal issues that are ever completely dealt with extrajudicially to be honest, most often there is a complain, a request for injunction, subpoenas, depositions etc... I highly doubt that all the "legal" battles are being settled without any of this done, if it is then Axl is being represented by the worst legal team imaginable. ?

Ok, and for you saying I havent seen Axl's record contract, I would like for you to show me evidence of one record contract where there is a renegotiation clause upon turning in a completed CD. ?Just one, I would love to see it. ?How about you go down to your local legal library, grab a form book and look at the actual CD contract form Geffen Records uses. ?You will see no area for renegotiation upon the labels reception of the finished CD. ?

All you people saying that they have a management team were just taken to the cleaners.

This last tour they lost Brain and had to replace him with Frank, for whatever reason, even if Brain is still in the band Axl added a new drummer to the album. ?So again, every tour they seem to lose someone from the band. ?This is a large band with a wide variety of personalities in various points in their life and career. ?I am pretty sure that if Robin was content ?with just touring and not being able to hear his work on an album he woulda stuck with Trent. ?Its amazing he has stayed around this long and I wouldnt be surprised if he one day just got fed up.

This update told us nothing good, if you can filter through the bs. ?This essentially said that the CD that was tentatively scheduled to be release March 6, has not even been turned in to the record company.

Wow..I gotta say...I find that completely shocking.

A major band with NO management?  Yikes.

Then I'd venture your legal experience is limited on the civil side of things, especially in reference to artist management, contract law/negotiation/settlement, and the like.  It happens every day in corporate law.

Worst?  No, the best actually...depending on where the contention originated.  Given the history, I'd say Axl is far more likely to be the defendant, than the plantiff.  In any event, having a legal team that can broker deals without involving the courts (which always makes things both messy and risky) is a very GOOD thing, if it's the case.

Edit: Earlier, I think you asked for an example of a legal issue that would not have been public through court records.  How about the original IRS leak, and Eddie trunk.  It was a legal issue, dealing with a Cease and Desist letter, and legal requests and "negotiations" from Axl's legal team.  Ditto the on-line leaks and the C & D's sent to sites hosting them.  There's a great example...of course, I'm not saying they'd ALL be of that manner, but, again, there are lots of situations I would call "legal issues" that wouldn't involve filing legal documents.


Correct.  You would normally renegotiate PRIOR to turning in the CD...using it as leverage to get the label to the table.  Just like pro athletes threaten to sit out a season, or part of a season, if their team won't renegotiate, restructure, or simply negotiate a new, deal.


I didn't see many people saying they HAVE a team.  I saw (and asked, myself) if we knew for sure they did not.  We now have an answer.


How you can look at an update that says "recording is done" and not glean at least an iota of "goodness" about it speaks more to your prejudice than it does to the update's quality of information.

It's great to see Frank and Ron pictured prominently on the website, too.  Time to really start putting the new band members into the spotlight.

I'm curious what people think of the fact that GN'R are currently "without management."  On one hand, I can see this as a positive thing, what with one less person being there to cloud the water or fuck things up.  On the other hand, how many bands do big things (tour, release an album, etc.) with no managment to keep things moving smoothly?  I'm not saying either is the case, I'm just curious if anyone else has an opinion where the lack of management falls on the positive-negative scale.

Your legal knowledge is pretty slim. ?First of all signing contracts and such are not going to slow down the album and would have nothing to do with the legal process. If Axl was a "defendant" as you claim then that of course would be a civil matter, or are you saying that he is having criminal problems. ?99% of cases do not go to court, however, how do you notify a party you have a complaint against them if you dont file a complaint. ?You are suggesting people are calling Axl up and saying "I am going to sue you" and his lawyers just settle? This is such lack of knowledge that its almost impossible to argue with. ?First you file a complaint, you rarely ever are in contact directly with the other party. ?Those complaints are kept on record. ?Second once the complaint is filed you file with the court a request for discovery. ?I highly doubt all of these legal proceedings are going on without any discovery. ?How about this you give me a legal issue that could possibly be holding Axl up, and I will just explain to you the procedure that attorneys use to settle or dismiss these complaints. ?And in case someone says "youre not Axl's lawyer etc..." these rules are mandatory. ?I am actually sitting here right now staring at the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, lawyers have to follow these rules if they dont they get disbarred. ?I get enough of law in my regular life and would rather not discuss it on here, so if you dont know about law why not just stop talking about it because its just ignorant. ?"the best legal teams never file motions?" ?are you nuts, thats all the best legal teams do. ?Motions for summary judgment, motions for protective orders, motions to compel etc...

As for renegotiations this is another baseless argument thats hard to argue with. ?The NFL players union have written into their contracts the right to sit out seasons and not get paid in attempts to renegotiate. ?This was done so because the NFL owners wanted the right to terminate contracts at will. ?In Geffen and in most Labels contracts, (they all pretty much copy eachothers forms) they do not add in any renegotiations. ?Why on earth would any company pay for something and before getting the reward for their investment allow the artist to hold them hostage? ?Heres whatll happen if Axl tries to negotiate. ?The record company would sue Axl to follow the contract and demand specific performance (i.e. turning over the album) or damages. ?Its happened before. ?Again if you want to know about album contract forms go down to any law library and you can see the form that Geffen uses. ?There are many places to add demands or certian payment structures, there is no spot to renegotiate before the cd is turned over to the record company.

i seriously don?t think we know about all the legal problems axl has/had to deal with.....

They may be without management, but they are not without people around them.

Most people here know the GN'R family and know that there are enough people around to do what is necessary.

I see this update from Del as a positive thing myself.   :yes: 

At least we got a frigging update.   :rant:

Everybody else that wants to be negative, well, that's not my problem.   :hihi:   :rofl:

GNR had the Illusion records mixed by two or three different producers before they were happy, and that took about a year.

That WAS two albums, though.  So, hopefully, this won't take so long.

I agree with you, at least we got an update.

                      This album is NEVER GOING TO COME OUT,too much bullshit,blaming others,this reason,that reason,axl will never let this album see the light of day,.same time next year they will be in the mixing process again,and the year after that and the year after that.....................................same shit different year.

By firing Merck, Axl severed ties to Sanctuary Management Group.

I seriously doubt this would directly affect a deal he had previously made with Sanctuary Music Publishing. Just because those two corporate entities are under the same umbrella, doesn't mean they're joined from the hip.

Its coming dont worry, the album is ready, it takes time is not that easy.

I see why you picked "DramaGod" as your handle...

Have faith, people!

The whole thing is beginning to seem like a cluster fuck...a bunch of people running around not know what they are doing. ?Once again I have reached the winter of my discontent. ?I have no faith!Seriously, this feels like it is just going to keep on moving this way...two months becomes six months becomes 12 months becomes 24 months.

The winter of my discontent comes once a year, usually around Dec. 21st.  Just have to drink your way through it.

Just trying to shed a little light to the naysayers:

I really don't understand why some people are saying Fall or even late December! You have got to be kidding me. It is a fact that Andy Wallace didn't just commence mixing! I am almost 100% positive that the only things left in the "mixing stage" are Frank and Bumble's parts. Read former quotes about Wallace working with GNR:

In an article in Rolling Stone about the high-anticipated new Guns N' Roses album, Chinese Democracy, it was revealed that Andy Wallace was not only an additional producer alongside Axl Rose, but the mixing engineer for the album as well- Guns N' Roses' management was said to be "delighted" with the mixes.

I believe mixing is almost done and as we all know mastering is a piece of cake.

I am betting on sometime in May or early June.

 ? ? ? ? ? ? im not bashing GnR just my opinion,and yes making an album is not easy,but its not brain surgery,im going to school for audio engineering and trust me thats alot harder than writing an album when you have had how many years to write this thing,trust me we will be here next year saying all of this over again about some sort of info that the album is moving along,Axl has no intetion of releasing CHINESE DEMOCRACY,he has to stop blaming others for the failure of this debacle,remember the 2000 rolling stone issue,the shows after his return,in vegas on new years where he says before they play chinese democracy "it's the title track of the record which god willing we will finish",the aborted shows after that,the vma's 2002 "soon",the vma's 2006 backstage "before year's end",merck,maybe march 6th,now they are mixing, then they have to re-record certain part's because someone has left,or some other crap to keep saying "SOON IS THE WORD", ?

great post man!  : ok:
I agree with you! The gnr.com update is really a good sign!
They cant mix it forever.. ..

Yes they can. : ok:

Actually, as a minor correction, Axl said he didn't know if it would be "soon" after the VMAs 2002.  Though I see your point, anyway.

But, I have faith that he WANTS to get this out there, ASAP, for the sake of getting a media monkey off his back.  Then his life can go on, with other music or whatever.

CD is beginning to feel like the biggest hoax in the music industry...next to Milli Vanilli.

I'm excited.

http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003548782

Something to read.

They work fast. Almost as fast as us.

It says the new "Better" was pulled due to management...who is the management?

Yeah the place that hosted the leak also said they were contacted by management.

"I think that's a bunch of bullshit, ma' self..."    to quote Jim Morrison.   :rant:

The album is obviously going to be released at some point and it's ridiculous to think that way. :confused:

And before anyone slams me for this, I've been a GNR fan since day one. :-* I've waited a long time for this. :'(

I think this album's going to end up being something very special and will surprise TONS of Axl Rose naysayers. :yes:

Save your money to Xmas 2007... ::)

Let's summarize what we know.

The album is finished being recorded, which is good news, as in: a finished recording is better than a non-finished recording.
The mixing and mastering could take anywhere from one day (!) to one year (!).
The album will not be out on March 6th.

Everything else is idle speculation.

Thus, the update is good news, but really did not tell us that much.

A decade of recording YOUR GETTING CRAZY hahahah.... Honestly with Axl niche of wanting everything perfect the tentative release date is out I see a summer or pre-christmas release..

I think that they can tour without CD again, as long as CD has a definite date thats set in stone.

I see them going on this part of the tour without cd being released. Than after this leg they take a break, release the album and tour the U.S. again just after a summer release of chinese democracy. :smoking:

I just noticed that the title of this thread is "Update on official WEBISTE regarding CD status:


That's funny.  I love it when this big threads that alot of people are reading and commenting on have a mis-spelling in the title like that.  Priceless.

I might add that Axl said it takes about 8 weeks for an album to hit the shelves once it's been turned over to the record company.

I assume the album will be mastered before it will be turned in.

Taking that into consideration, the minimum amount of time needed for the release is x + 60d, with x > 1d.


Therefore, the album won't come out in March, period.

All these media sources need to start using some current pictures.  If I see one more VMA's-era Axl pic alongside a new story about GnR or the album...sheesh.

I think x = 14.

Well, I'm just going to be Negative Nancy.  This is bullshit.

How many "delays" and "scheduling conflicts" and excuses do we have to hear about? 
If it's done, then get it out. 

I think it's wrong for them to go on tour again and make more money off the fans without any definitive plans for the release. 

As for those who thought it would actually be out in March; I told you so!

Delayed again? I'm shocked.

I will always support axl rose and the decisions he makes. if he needs more time to put this thing out, then so be it.

good things come to those who wait.

What a special moment this must be for you.  : ok:

it's "fans" with opinions like this that make me feel sick. instead of seeing it as guns n' roses are finally out there again rocking for the fans, you see it as they are trying to take our money. disguisting...

We went from a tentative release date to no release date.  The news sucks.   :-\  Prior to finishing recording they could give us a tentative date, right?  Now that the recording is done they can't give us a new date (tentative or otherwise).

Don't you guys see Axl is setting us all up again for another nostalgic act cash grab tour.  It's amazing we keep falling for the same thing over and over again.  Sickness.

In principal I agree with you. ?But was it not Axl who suggested the album was dangeled as a means to promote the last tour, and that was insane to do to the fans? Merck also hinted at a cash grab to keep the band "alive" . So I don't think that idea should be as repulsive as you suggest, since both Axl and Merck hinted at it. 

As for me, I don't see it as stealing....if GNR is playing in my area, I am there and Axl would not be stealing a dime from me!!

the only thing that is SICK, which makes me madder than anything else, is when ungrateful "fans" complain about guns n' roses going on tour to "take our money". i'm SO tempted to insult you but i won't sink to that level. just know that axl doesn't need to "take our money", and he has given us more than enough in the last year for us to be happy, so keep your money obsessed negativity to yourself.

What the hell do you think Axl is trying to do, make music for world peace.  Of course he is after our money.  Seriously, some of you people think hes jesus or something.  This is a guy who wants our money and who cares primarily about himself, but thats not a bad thing, but seriously wake up people.  He is a rock singer, he does this for money and for his own fulfillment.  There are some artists who care about fans and who really appreciates them, but c'mon thats not Axl, im not saying he would like spit on you, but he would attack you if you were taking pictures of him during a concert.  He has chosen over these years not to communicate with the fans, to show up late to performances, cancel performances etc....  Axl makes the best music out there, he is the best entertainer i have ever seen and his music is nothing short of brilliant, but if you think he really cares about the fans youre insane.  He wants money, who the hell wouldnt, you think hes in this for charity.  Hes just like Michael Jordan, you see him and you know youre going to get a show, hes going to give it his all and hes the best, but he's still cashing all the checks and negotiating for more money and doing add campaigns.  Tons of bands who have toured with GNR have talked about their disconnect and almost contempt for fans, especially during the UYI period.  He doesnt hate fans, but c'mon this is Axl, he isnt some sappy "I do this for you" guy.  He always said the music was for him.  Seriously, wake up people this tour, this cd, the breakup etc... its all about money.

Didn't know we had a mind reader on here.  ::)
What a steaming pile of shite.  None of know his motivations ...

IMO, this album isn't anywhere close to being released and Axl put this update out simply to quiet the frenzy that was coming from fans after the latest leak. Did they just happen to finish it so close to the leak? The timing is quite convenient.

The whole update just reads odd to me.. it begins with "The good news is.." as if there's bad news too and they aren't telling us.

Now its mixing - so why was Andy Wallace supposedly mixing it last year? I get the feeling, and it's pure speculation, but I get the feeling this album has been done for a long time and Axl continually halts the release to tinker with it because he finds something wrong with it.

You know how I know Axl does this for himself...CAUSE THATS WHAT HE SAID. ?Everything else is evidence from the fact that hes been late and what everyone around him has said. ?Maybe you are incapable of thought, or putting 1+1 together to form 2, but most people can figure this stuff out. ?

It's not about us, it's not about money. It's all about ego.

If it were about the money we'd have an album a decade ago.

For fuck's sake. AxlRose4eva1, you sound like a broken record with your bullshit and whining.


If he wanted the money so bad, GN'R would've been touring with the AFD line-up in 2004 when Greatest Hits went to #1.

You're forgetting all the things he chose not to do for money.

You seem to confuse Axl with somebody like Gene Simmons. Compare those two and you'll notice the difference.


He doesn't care about fans? You're truly a misinformed fool if you think he only cares about money.

Don't believe everything you hear from people who only want to sell more newspapers.


He's been communicating with us fans way more in the last year than before, but it's not good enough for you. You're still stuck in the old "he doesn't care about his fans" mode. You even mention stuff that happened 15 years ago as proof.

I bet you're the same bitter person you were 15 years ago (that is if you were even born back then).

I guess it makes you seem "cool" compared us poor fools who throw our money at him and believe everything the band tells us.  You're so objective. ::)



/jarmo

Im pleased by this news :)

hey who are you calling me a fool? :hihi:

jesus we're resorting to name calling now.



Well im a dissapointed fool but im not unhappy at least we had an update we have been told things are moving on , there is a tour coming up and some day soon what will possibly be the greatest rock album released for a long long time

what a crock of SHIT! i bet if axl read this he would laugh at you, either that or think you are an idiot and move on. if axl was after our money he could have relased chinese democracy in 1999 and made tons of millions more, he could have released like 3 more albums by now too, but he didn't, and do you know why? unlike alot of other artists it's not about the money for him, it's about putting the best possible product out there and, in his own words, "meeting the high standards set my pervious guns n' roses records". i have never seen axl say that he is doing this for himself, i've been a fan of his for most of my life and it doesn't sounds like something he would say at all, so please provide some evidence or get called a liar by me. ?it's sad that you are this obsessed with money and that you feel being to a gn'r concert is "giving him money", you really should find something else to spend your time on, GN'R does't need "fans" like you. "this is a guy who wants our money and who cares genuinly just about himself" - this leaves me practically speechless. ARE you this dumb or are you just pretending? every person that knows axl personally and has spoken about him in the media describes him as very caring and kind, and you know what? he doesn't want our money, and especially not yours, i think he'll manage great without "fans" like you. he doesn't need you to "give him money" and he doesn't expect it either so if you have a problem with spending money on something that he and the band does for us; don't. in tommy stinson's words, "either get on board or fuck off".

I hope you don't ban me for this.. I agree with you on a lot of points, but it IS all about money.. The record company has to get back it's 13 Million+ investment. ?axl might not be all about the $$ but he still has to ensure he will get his money back and not put out everything he has worked on to be a flop (he said it himself... something that was along the lines of him not being shaq at the free throw or something) ?If his band sucks to what the record execs think, then yes... it's about money, they dont see their investment producing then they will have to find a way to get that money back. ? If it wasn't about the money why would all the ex band members sue as soon as their royalty checks come in? come on... it's that and some stuff behind the scenes that we aren't told. ? ?At least if it isn't completely about the money, then it's a large part of a giant pie. ?

I never said I dont throw my money at him. ?I throw my money at Lebron James when I go see Cavs games, but I know why Bron bron is out there, hes out their for money. ?He plays the games every night because he wants money. ?

Izzy is a guy who truly didnt give a damn about money, Axl laughed at the people who pretended they didnt want money, but really did. ?Just listen to him talk about Kurt Colbain. ?Of course he wants money. ?I was wrong to make it sound like its just about money, i meant to say its about him. Polluxlm is completely right a lot is about ego. ?Axl likes his Shaq references and his split from the band was a lot like Shaq and Kobe's split, they both wanted to win alone. ?I think 99% of musicians are in it for their own personal fulfillment and financial benefit

Maybe you got your cd in 2006 but i didnt, of course this band lies, who doesnt lie and make excuses.

You have to cite things from 15 years ago because he hasnt done anything in 15 years. ?The small communications this year like calling people downloading motherfuckers etc... is still a lot less than most artists do. ?He's not evil, but hes human, this is his livelihood he does a ton for money and ego.

If you like this band because of how well they treat the fans or their selflessness youre nuts. ?I like them for the music, thats it. ?I dont see anything wrong with a guy doing this for money, who wouldnt. ?I buy cd's and go to concerts and buy merchandise at exorbitant amounts at GNR concerts. ?I started listening to GNR in 1988 and it was because I felt that they were a band that didnt give a damn about the fans and were just crazy and dangerous. ?Thats what I like about Axl, I like a musician who doesnt give a damn and who is real. ?If I want some selfless guy into world peace ill listen to Bono, I just want a guy who makes music and of course he should make money off of it.

Hey fuck off man. If Gene and Paul REALLLLY wanted Ace and Pete back again, they could give them the right price(because they actually have it without having to do tours for extra funds).  If you haven't noticed, guns has their name on pretty much everything these days too, from candles to dartboards to baby clothes to blankets and clocks. When you really think about it, Axl and Gene have alot in common. Ace and pete left in the early 80's...they got theirselves a new band and continued touring....those guys left/got fired(much like bucket) and they replaced them too and kept touring BUT you know what the difference is, KISS put albums out year after year from creatures to carnival of souls. So if you are gunna take a dig at a band who continuously put albums out for nearly 25 years, maybe you need to get your shit straight first instead of just reading dumfuck sites like blabbermouth. So yeah, guess what someone did notice the fuckin' difference. GENE and ANY OTHER members of KISS are fucking workhorses and Axl is not. Sorry. You can ban me now ya dumb fuck.

The need for people to come here and argue with each other amazes me. ?GNR fans arguing with each other about the band, a record, the tour. ?Why must ya'll waste your time?? I'm thankful they're still mixing the thing so that shit version of Better stands a changce to be, well, better. The first version was better than the latest. Except for the Nnah, nah, nah part behind Axl closing out the song. That some melody baby. ?Need to turn up the fuckin guitars in that bitch. It needs to be guitar heavy as opposed to synth and pro-tools. ?Seems like it went way too pop heavy. ?Fuck pro-tools. Geez-Us!!!!!!

Guaranteed it'll be mixed by the start of the tour than the record company can do their thing. That fuckin' record better be out by my fiance's birthday, 24 April 2007, or I'm gonna fuckin' start whining like a little bitch like many of the visitors here.

Start?

Your membership was approved several sentences ago.

long life to del james!!!

God blesses del James!!

All right, as you wish.



Something for you to think about in your banned existance: Kiss Kasket

GN'R didn't have that on sale on their site.



/jarmo

^ They need one.

Can I visit the dream world some of you people live in? Are some of you really trying to argue that musicians don't perform for the money? If they weren't about the all mighty dollar, they'd tour for free like Ozzy.

because we care about the band and are passionate about it. nuff said. who are you to tell me i'm wasting my time by talking about something i love?

I love how people say Axl is obsessed with money....and thats all he cares about....do you know anything about the music business?? putting 13 million dollars into ONE album over a 13 year period is not exactly a great financial investment....if Axl really cared about money he would have stuck it out with Slash and the rest of the guys and put out a new album every few years and tour them...like Oasis does....Chinese Democracy will never make the money back that was spent on it....and Axl seems like he could care less...Axl has a whole new line up which he knows some people are going to have a problem with and not support...doesnt care about that either...Axl is just trying to make the best possible record he could make....that is actually the complete opposite of a money hungry ego maniac.....

There's no such thing as free lunch.

He'll probably make a lot on t-shirt sales from that "free" tour.


Bands tour for several reasons.





/jarmo

Wow, someone is a militant Kiss fan.  I know a couple of those people, and they would want fight me if I said anything remotely negative about Kiss, so this response was not a surprise.

True.

And I agree that bands tour for several reasons. But to deny that money is one of them is silly.

Money is part of almost everything. What we're discussing is if it's the primary motivation.

Even if money is the reason, this bitchfest started by someone saying that Axl's is just taking money from the fans, which is crap. Axl puts on a show that is worth every cent, so his what if he is doing it for money, for frequent flier miles, world peace, dolphins, whatever. ?

uh, hate to be a party pooper but what does this have to do with the del piece?
the statement was bullshit, of corse. throw the dogs a bone to sedate them for a while long. typical bullshit. i'm surprised that people buy into it as some sort of genuine grace bestowed upon us peasants by the gnr gods, but i'm also surprised people get angry over it. me, i'm just war-weary.

The "free" Ozzfest is going to suck...why? because it is only going to increase the amount of trashy degenerate type of people that go to those things....i go to every ozzfest and am always sickened by the types of trash that I see...now that it is free it is only going to get worse...at least the cover charge to get in kept some trash out...now its going to be a free for all......oh yeah and what a great guy Ozzy is with his "free" show....if by "free" you mean 4 dollar water, 9 dollar hot dogs, 8 dollar beers and 40 dollar t shirts...you are right....what a deal....

it's bullshit when they update us saying the recording is finally finished?
people like you shouldn't get to call themselves fans.

Well I guess we all knew the March 6 date was out the window the moment we saw TENTATIVE in front of it.  They need to let us know when the album will be done mixing!

As I said, there are many ?more "legal issues" than just civil suits. ?You're assuming there is some sort of "suit" to address, and not existing agreements to interpret, enforce, and existing/previous relationships to enforce or work through (for example, the Guns and Rose partnership agreement). ?There's a lot more to corporate law than you seem to be either aware of or willing to address.


In civil suits between individuals (people), yes...most suits are served "blind". ?In corporate law, that is far, far, far less likely to be the case. ?Very often the complaintant's legal representatives have already contacted the corporation looking to have a compaint addressed. ?I can certainly see situations where that could be the case in Axl's legal wranglings. ?Sometimes those initial complaints are resolved LONG before they make it to actual court filings. ?That you're not aware of that makes me question the depth of your experience in this area.


Thanks, but I interact, daily, with some of the brightest legal minds in the country. ?If I want legal advice, I'll talk to them instead of someone online purporting to have a legal degree, not displaying credentialing from any bar association, and dishing out their legal opinions (which, FYI, unless I'm mistaken, is against the bars ethics guidlines).


I would venture you've displayed more real world ignorance of corporate and civil law than just about anyone posting in this thread...and they don't have your reported degree, either.  You seem to know procedure, but not practice.  I have to wonder why that is. JA, maybe?

Don't misquote me. ?The best legal teams are very good at brokering deal without allowing a complaint to either make it to a filing, or at least before they see the inside of a courtroom. ?Ask a good corporate attorney how much time they spend actually litigating vs responding to "legal issues" that never seen court proceedings. ?Obviously you'll be surprised at their response, given your posts here.


 ?They could sue for retention of any master recordings, but they would be functionally useless if there wasn't "finished" material to go along with it. ?In addition, if they did indeed cut off funding back in '04, they would not even have access to any masters recorded after that...because Axl would have been paying the bills at the recording studios. ?So, in THAT situation, Axl has the label over a barrell, so to speak, to force renegotiation. ?MANY artists have done it previously (Prince, for example, but there have been others) and they've done exactly what I suggested Axl could do: ?Hold back recorded material to "urge" the record company to renegotiate. ?And oftentimes it is in the record labels benefit to just renegotiate, rather than call any "bluff" by the artist....cheaper, more productive, and more profitable. ?That you're not familiar with past precedent on this issue, again, seems to indicate your "legal knowledge" isn't comprehensive enough to comment.

In addition to all that, every one ofl your points assume direct legal action. ?There are SOOO many other "legal issues", that would only END in legal action, it would take volumes (which, FYI, you should have read if you have a legal degree) to go through them all. Cease and Desists, for example. ?Notice of copyright infringment, for example. ?The list goes on, and on, and on, and on.

AG: man, you have a short fuse. i've been genial in two threads and you've jumped down my throat twice. chill, take a step back and look at the wider picture. the statement is a tool to deflect attention away from the fact that march 6th isn't happening.
we're to rejoice that an album 10 or so years in the making has finished being recorded?! gimme a break.

Typically bands don't make money from the concession stands.

I'm curious as to what your definition of "trash" is and how you, while in their company and enjoying the same show, are any different.

I agree with everything you say - but 8 dollar beers are a steal at most concerts!!!

In case people were confused, I love GNR will buy the album, my main point wasnt money, but seriously a GNR t-shirt at a show costs 30 bucks. ?Pollux was way more clear and right than me it is about ego mostly. ?Oh and Axl has said several times throughout his career and done many things throughout his career to prove that its about him and not the fans. ?I am not saying fans are meaningless to him, but he isnt out to please us. ?I mean even Jericho told a story about Axl being a dick to a young fan "Sure ill brb with an autograph." ?I think thats hilarious and awesome. ?He isnt a religious figure, he isnt a politician and hes not out to please us, but everyone here acts like "oh hes trying the best for us." ?Whatever, I dont wanna get banned so I wont keep talking about it, but seriously just look at the 2001 Spin article (pretty sure thats the year and article i cant remember this shit and dont know how some of you people do), Axl said it could all be over today and he would be fine because HE has the music and can listen to it whenever he wants. ?Its about him, hes an asshole, HE ADMITS IT. ?I guess what I appreciate in this band isnt what you guys do. ?I loved the fact that Axl hasnt been fake and I guess thats why these "updates" piss me off, cause they string fans along. ?You can call me speculative cause I quote axl and tourmates comments on him, but someone said what "axl would probably say about my comments," ?yeah...thats not speculative at all.

Hell, I dont care if Axl would like me, maybe he wouldnt, i highly doubt he would hang out with more than like 2 people who post on this board (jarmo, mysteron maybe), I am just a fan who loves this band, wants the music, i know I dont make a difference. ?I will probably my whole life financially support this band by buying albums and merchandise, going to see concerts etc... and like a fan of a sports team or any other entertainment venue i will bitch. ?What makes bitching about this stuff any different than bitching about Tony Romo's bumbled snap or Bill Buckner. ?I think this Del James statement was garbage and is just stringing people along with more vague statements. ?I dont think GNR should tour without an album and I also think The Wire shouldnt have killed off Stringer Bell and Brodie, seriously this is a message board, this is a music group, this isnt church and we arent talking about God.

Again people argue and bitch cause theres no CD, everyone here is a fan.

As for the nonsense Pilferk is saying haha its just insane. ?First of all it is not against any ethics to talk about the legal issues around any case that you are not apart of. ?As I am saying there is no case or cases. ?You really know nothing of the law. ?First of all the two legal issues Cease and Desists and Notice of Copyright infringements are almost always first filed with a court otherwise theres no teeth behind them, what would the point be of just sending that to Axl? ?It would make no sense. ?Second of all, youre saying that the record company invests 10 million into an album and then stops paying for it and somehow Axl owns the rights to everything he has worked on since 2004? ?Thats just nonsense and rather than going into the legal issues behind why thats not true, look how the record company forced Axl to accept the GH track list. ?You also notice how that case was immediately reported, thats because it was an actual legal issue that was filed with the court. ?The record company was allowed to do that to regain some of their lossed investments, they obviously own the rights now to pretty much anything Axl does and did that in lieu of bringing a suit for breach of contract for not turning in an album. ?I guarantee if anyone is trying to renegotiate it would be the record company. ?Also real fast youre the one who said Axl was probably the "defendant" in these cases. ?That completely implies court action. ?If you work at a legal firm you most likely have lexisnexis.com or Westlaw.com, search for Axl or GUns n Roses, they have been involved in a lot of cases, very few see trial, most are settled, but you can still see those. ?The court is used in almost every dispute even though 99% see trial. ? Ugh, enough about law, ill talk about it during the day when im at work, but not at night.

most shirts at shows by any band cost 30$$

It is against the ethics code of every state bar association in the country to dispense legal advice, interpretation, or opinion in public or private, if you are an accredited member of the bar, without identifying yourself and providing credentials. ?If you'd like, contact a presiding member of your state bar and ask them.


Apparently I seem ?to know more than you, at least on this issue. ?I've said there are no cases. ?Cases are only initiated on filings. I've said, specifically, they are dealing with "legal issues" that have not evolved into cases, or do not need to evolve into cases.


No, Axl's legal team would be doing the sending. ?And they are not usually filed first with the court. ?First parties are notified of the infringemnt or offending action and are given the opportunity to correct it (witness the letters that went out to websites hosting the leaks AND the letter sent to Eddie Trunk) prior to court filings. ?Notice of Copyright infringement is often handled the same way. ?Call a copyright attorney and ask them.


Are there legal issues? Yes. ?Are they largely enforceable? No. ?Because if the label isn't paying the studios bills, they have no way to compel them to release master recordings to them, other than a court order.? And if Axl is keeping the material "local" to him, again, short of a court order (which could damage any chance of geting the artist to produce a finished product). ?They have to depend on Axl to do it. ?Which leads us right back to the "over the barrell" point.? They COULD sue him, and spend tons of money on the suit, to compel him to either pay up or turn over existing material, but the resulting bad press, the lack of involvement from the artist on the finished product, and other issues, could make the material fundamentally worthless.? It's a game of chicken, in essence, and one the artist often wins.

As for not "going into the legal issues", I rather suspect it's because you can't explain them.

GH is hardly the same thing. ?They already possessed the master recordings. ?2 completely seperate legal issues. ?You not recognizing that is rather interesting


It was public because they filed suit....and is completely different than anything regarding CD material. ?Look at what happened with Prince. ?Know the precedent.


Your "gaurentee" isn't really worth anything since you're not directly involved in the process.

I used the term "defendant" in relation to POSSIBLE legal actioin, rather than filed legal action. ?It was an economy of language rather than an indication of status.

I don't work in a law firm. ?Better than that, IMHO.

I wouldn't say that all Axl cares about is money. ?But I also wouldn't say that he doesn't care about money.

Lets face it, we all have to make a living. ?Yeah, Axl has put $13 million into a CD. ?In return, he's gonna do everything he can to make sure he gets it back. ?That includes selling pricy tickets, merchandise at shows, and eventually properly promoting the new album. ?

You don't just spend $13 million in making something and not care about getting something in return. ?Everybody likes money! ?And if they don't, that's because they haven't gotten it yet. ? ? ?

 ?

What a great piece of evidence....  :hihi:


An artist who creates music for him- or herself is far better than somebody who makes music for the public.

So thank God if Axl says he creates music for himself.

But I still don't buy the whole "he doesn't care for his fans" just because he creates music for himself or because he didn't sign an autograph in 1987.  :P



/jarmo

Axl made his living 19 years ago, and he has never put 13 million in this project.

What a brilliant notion: Axl does what he does for ego and money just like um, anyone that 'sells a product' and 'puts their name on something'. No shit.  : ok:

But seriously, some of you act as though you've been starving and he's been dangling a steak in front of your face for ten years.

He's a human being who's nervous about putting his name on the line with this album. He wants it done right, no matter what it costs HIM (anyone who read the NYTimes article knows its his responsibility to fund the completion of the record).

Delaying the album, remixing things, re-recording things...that's obviously 'art before money' right there.

I don't quite understand some of your logic that Axl's supposed 'lying to the fans', 'disappointing fans', 'making excuses' and 'letting the new guys record their parts' is somehow 'ripping you off' or 'all about money'.

Yeah, I admit it, I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't much good news reported last night (Jarmo and I discussed whether or not the album was finished a couple of days ago, this note is about what I expected). I wasn't expecting it to come out in March, but I was hoping for (not "expecting" like some of you) a good update and what we got was a bare minimum amount of info.

Keywords there are 'a bit disappointed'. Not angry, not pissed off, not livid, not hating life. Life goes on. When it comes out, great. If not, ok then.

An obvious point some of you seem to need to be reminded of: Axl does not wake up every morning and think to himself "gee, how can I further piss off my fans today?"

Being a GN'R fan and complaining bitterly about having to wait...is like being really into Cold Stone or McDonalds and then complaining bitterly about how fat you are.

anyone whos disappointed that ron and frank are on CD should just NOT buy the album.
real fans are welcoming any news about this record, whereas you wanna dictate axl.
and yeah he makes the music for himself but also for us, to meet previous standards.

Today I just had a feeling something would happen...and when I renewed The Stand at my library, I said, "If the return date isn't March 6th, I lose all hope for that date." And what do you know? It's March 8th, the return. And then we get this update. Weird.

Damn why is everyone lynching each other?

We got some news from someone affiliated in GNR.

To me it's all good.  Thanks Del for the update :smoking:

Yeah.  Um...what?

Real fans are those who care, who are passionate about the band. There is not a "right" or "wrong" way to be a "real fan."
Real fans have the right to be disappointed that more detailed news was not forthcoming. Real fans have the right to be mad, happy, satisfied, dissatisfied.

To try to paint the ?situation as ?black and white is wrong: you are ?a "real" fan if you swallow ?whatever ?they give you, and if you don't you aren't a real fan, is baloney.

That's like saying for example:

1. only real fans buy only the most expensive ?tickets (they may, but that does not define a real fan)
2. only real fans have every CD and every DVD (they may, but that does not define a real fan)
3. only real fans buy T-shirts and other merchandise (they may, but that does not define a real fan)


I repeat, the only definition of a real fan is one ?who cares, and who cares enough to hold the band ?to high standards. When those ?standards ?are not met, it ?is natural, and justifiable, that even "real" fans ?may be disappointed. To "whine" does not (necessarily) lessen the fact of being a "real" fan.

To suggest that you have a "patent" on being a real fan by believing everything you hear  or read  from the band is just nonsense.

Just ?for fun, what is your definition ?of a real fan? Blind faith?

What's weird is you having the release date dependant on the return date of your library books :smoking:

But you know, it's all connected, maybe the molecyls told you.

Wow, this has gotten way out of hand.....Axl4eva, you have some points. However, I understand a little about law too and think you are being quite naive to assume that there are no legal wranglings going on between Axl and the record company "behind closed doors" right now. The company I work for and the department I work for settle 99% of our potential lawsuits with attorney's prior to filing suit. Everyone is to act in good faith and try to resolve any and all issues prior to filing suit. Anyhow, I think Axl and the record company are going at it. Too much money and potential material NOT to fight over. It sucks for us fans, but it is big business. ? and ps, Axl doesn't need a manager to negotiate or renegotiate a record deal at this point, he needs a good lawyer. ?: ok:

I've waited for years, so when it comes out, it comes out.  Axl has a plan!

no, like you i think that a real fan is someone who is passionate about the music and cares about the band. totally. but as someone who has followed this new band evolve with excitement and an open mind to every person in it, i find it disappointing to see other fans complain because they don't get it the way they want it, instead of supporting axl and the band and believing in what they do. that's a given for me. you see? a real fan supports, not dictates. and as for the rest of your post, it's pointless to comment on, you know i know as well as you that a huge gnr fan can also be one that has not yet had the chance, or the money, to see them live in concert.

I really dont get where we are missing eachother here. ?I thought that the story was hilarious, whatever Axl does I hope he keeps making great music. ?I am not saying what he is doing is wrong at all, I want him to be real. ?Comeon he has probably less contact with his fans than any other musician (someone will point out someone I know, but it is little contact you gotta give me that.) ?I am not saying axl should change anything, im not demanding a cd or saying he should go on tour or make money. ?All I am saying is he shouldnt worry about our approval, he never has so he should stop with these "definitely this year" "its coming" etc... Just do his thing, dont make promises cause they disappoint. ?I love this band, I want the album, ill bitch about not having it, but in the end I really just want Axl to continue being that egomaniacal asshole he's been since he first popped on the music scene.'

Also you can tell the biggest sports fans by the guys who bitch the loudest about the team but still go to every game... thats my opinion at least.

I would have liked Axl to make the statement. It would have been more assuring.

Sorry Del, that's just the way it is.? :hihi:

That's gotta' be the funniest fucking thing I've seen on here yet!!!  :rofl:   :beer:

Good for you jarmo.  : ok:  Don't take no shit off nobody man.  :o  ;D


This place and the world in general is seriously going to hell in a hand-basket rather quickly...  :nervous:   :confused:  :nervous:

Sure it's disapointing that the album's been delayed again but I can't subscribe to the belief that we, the fans, deserve better treatment from Axl and the band. ?

At the end of the day we choose to buy his music and attend his concerts because it's of such high quality. ?There's a shitload of music released each year and most of which doesn't hold any substance. I purchase alot of music in the hope that I can find an album which can captivate me in the same way that Appetite did back when it was released or in more recent times Wilco's brilliant Yankee Hotel Foxtrot album.

While I highly anticipate Chinese Democracy's release I'm really not to fussed how long it takes I just want it to be some of Axl's finest work. ?I can all but guarantee that alot of people hanging out for it will be disappointed in the album because they've built it up far too much, huge expectations can only lead to dissapointment.

I really feel bad for the other guys.  Seems like they are putting their heart and soul into this shit and it just keeps getting pushed back.  I've said it before and I will say it again.  I really wish I was not such a big fan of these guys.  I can't wait til summer.  It must come out before the tour.  I can't see them play the same shit again.  I've seen it.  Need something diff. At least we know VR will have something out soon.  Am excited for that.

Seems no one knows anything about mixing here. ::)

People are acting like its not gonna be out for another 5 years.

THE RECORDING IS FINALLY DONE. THAT IS THE BEST NEWS WE HAVE EVER GOTTEN. AXL IS FINALLY SATISFIED WITH THE MATERTIAL.

Mixing doesnt take that long. And it seems as though its been being mixed at least since late last year with Andy Wallace. Del says they are in the middle of mixing. It not like they just started mixing or are going to be next week or whatever. They have already started. It wont be much longer now. I say it will be out in April

If ever there has been a band that's about the fans it's KISS.

Fact.

Agreed.

But I prefer bands that are about the music, THEN the fans. 

The only thing KISS is about is raping their fans for every dollar they have by slapping their name on every stupid product they can think of.

And Gene Simmons is like the only original in the band that is currently playing.

Ever heard of a guy named Paul Stanley? He's on a solo tour, but he didn't quit the band.

See to me charging the fans doesnt mean you dont care, its all about interaction and bands that are appreciative of their fans. Despite the whole napster debacle I would probably argue that Metallica treats their fans very well (I greatly dislike Metallica btw so dont get me wrong.? I also think that Trent Reznor actually treats his fans pretty well.? I mean he at least cares enough to have tons of interaction with them, keep them notified all the time.? The way he records albums you almost feel like youre right there in the process since he records an album and remixes it.? Again I am not saying that this is the best thing in the world.? I find that its mostly smaller bands that embrace their fans/interact with them, however, some big time bands do it.? I just feel, and this is pure speculation I could be wrong, that Axl doesnt stay up at nights thinking about whether or not his fans are going to be mad about the delay.? I think the only time he worries about what his fans are going to think is when it concerns money.? I guess I dont see this as bashing Axl, but some of you do.? I LIKE that about him.? This is rock music it shouldnt be about what makes people happy, it should be about putting out the best music you can and just doing what makesyou happy.? I hope GNR releases an album, but honestly I dont care when, but I just hate the stringing along.? Axl says, "go take a break etc...", but then sets a release date 2 months away.? That is a huge mixed message.? Its like "you waited 14 years, if you want to stop waiting do so, by the way albums coming out in 8 weeks."?

I swear if he released a statement today and said "Albums coming out whenever I say so" or "Album will be out December of 2009" id be fine with it.? My problem is the stringing along.? For all we know the mixing could be done tomorrow or in two years.? People act like its "definitely coming out soon" but if they actually thought mixing would be done within the next two weeks why would someone in the band ask Del James to make a report now when he really had no news, why not wait 3 days when he could say its done.?

Id people are happy about this news thats cool, however, they shouldnt have started bashing on people who were disappointed about this.? I figure message boards are all about opinions, most of which dont matter.? If a guy is mad that this album has taken 14 years that doesnt mean hes not a fan, it just means he gets mad that he has been let down year after year by not getting music.? Yes, we all know we arent "entitled" to the music and thats cool, but its the teasing that kills.? Its like someone telling you in a month theyll give you 10,000$ and then not giving it to you.? Sure you werent entitled to that money, sure you did nothing to earn it, but its still disappointing.? Now imagine every 2 months they tell you this, but each time come up with a better way to guarantee that its coming.? Wouldnt it be better to never be promised it at all or to have the actual date or know the truth about the progress.? This music means a lot to people, the fact that people care enough to be upset that they cant purchase the album should tell you the level of support this band has.? To accuse someone of not being a fan because the are mad they cant BUY THE ALBUM is pure ignorance and fanboydem.? To me those are the real fans, the guys who stuck with them through all the shit.? They dont want to wait patiently any longer because they want to hear this album theyve been eagerly anticipating, what do you think seeing the new lineup live does?? Do you think it satisfies people?? I sure as hell dont.? I think it makes people want the album even more.?

Axl should start worrying when people stop getting mad and everyone can wait patiently.? The day Axl can have a spokesperson of the band say that there is another delay and people arent upset, will be the day GNR is over.

gnr have a very strange and very different official site,more diferent than other bands

On gnr official site you have nothing (only couple news from 2006 and merchandise store),but we except new design when album come in

@ Axlrose4eva1:

You're saying that Del has nothing to say because there is no news. Well IT IS good news that recording is done. And why shouldn't we get informed?
Oh now I know, we shouldn't be informed because in this case you got something you can whine about...  ::)

And with a little bit of brain power, you should know that mixing will be done soon. Stop complaining.

Del James say nothing

with a little bit of brain power you would know that they are mixing this damn thing since 2001. so i still don't count on SOON.

It is sure nice to get some info, so thanx to gnr camp for that, but soon is a relative word when it's comes to a release. anyway banzai and good luck with japaneese tour :beer:

Ok...

I was away for a few days cause my PC refused to co-operate (and still does, I'm waiting for my new one today) so I tried to login to see what's going on.

Now, let's use our brains (I know, it's a bit difficult for some people, but you can at least try).

On December 14th Axl gave a tentative release date to the fans. It was March 6th. Which means that they'd go to the studio, record some parts with Frank and Bumble, get the album finalized and give it to the record company.

They had almost 1 month to do ALL that (given the fact that the album needs to be handed to the record company 8 weeks before the release, as Axl stated).

The most difficult part of the whole process was to finish the recordings. Now, as we can all guess (well not all, but at least those with half a brain in their heads) there was a scheduling conflict with the person(s) that would do the final mixes. That is fixed (as can most of us understand from Del's message).

So, as (AGAIN) most of us undestand it won't take as long as one stated here (a fuckin year? Are you serious people?).

The album will be out REALLY soon. Stop the whinning. Stop being miserable.

Be happy. Be positive. The waiting is over.

Oh, and respect Milli Fuckin Vanilli.

Let's all go and see that movie they're making...  :hihi:

still, if bryan is headed back and still listed as an official member then why has frank been allowed record all the drum parts on chinese democracy? it doesnt make sense

still, i dont care really, the album is finished and theyre just mixing now so no delays for a nice summer release

All I half to say is that im a moron cause when I first heard the new leaks I thought it was the final version.  Im wrong so if this new is version got me so hyped up I can't wait for this finished product.  kudos for Gnr and Axl for updating us fans he stuck to his word just remember MARCH 6 was a TENATIVE LET ME REPEAT TENATIVE RELEASE DATE, THIS AIN'T A LIE OR A GURANTEE people seem to forget that we all have stuck with them through thick and thin lets just wait a couple more months and we will be rockin out.

Uhh.....  exactly where did it say in Del's web update that Frank recorded all of the drum parts???  ???   :confused:

Perhaps you should go and re-read Del's letter dude.   :-*

"Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Bumblefoot integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt." - Del James

No offense but, I seriously think that you're either confused, totally illiterate or just not paying attention to what you're reading.   :-[

il?lit?er?ate
?adjective
1.   unable to read and write: an illiterate group.
2.   having or demonstrating very little or no education.
3.   showing lack of culture, esp. in language and literature.
4.   displaying a marked lack of knowledge in a particular field: He is musically illiterate. ?noun
5.   an illiterate person.

The jury's still out on that one.   :hihi:   :rofl:

oK I'M HAPPY AND I'M POSITIVE ABOUT NEW ALBUM,BUT FOR ME DEL JAMES SAID NOTHING...

for me fans deserves another axl letter or official stetament by menagment of the band about 2007 plans

I don't know why excist official site ,when we heard for new tour dates on other no gnr sites

perfect. People here can't use brain sometimes. Thats why I don't comment too much, I keep not understanding why people can't use brain before comment. When they say that the mixing can take 1 year I stop reading the post. I think that people don't have enough IQ or they just want to be negative about the album, they want to make fun of us.
God bless you. You saved this thread. I hope that people can think before posting something else.

by the love of God... that is GUNSNROSES.com . What's your problem with that? Maybe they want to announce the tour with the album release date, maybe they don't want to do it right now, maybe they want to confirm like 10+ shows in a row before updating the site. We really don't know. But by the love of God stop that. The site is updated, all of us wanted that and now you want a new letter? I just can't understand you. At all. If you think a bit... Axl wouldn't let someone update his band's official site with some lie or false news.
If you are not happy yet, bumblefoot confirmed on his own forum that mixing IS being done right now. Happy now?

My sentiments exactly, especially the part about being dissapointed doesn't make you a worthy supporter of the band

Fans of football teams are always complaining about their teams performance, the manager, the players, the ground, ticket prices etc etc. Sometimes criticism comes best from those close to you.

You want the album ASAP, no?  Well maybe you can stop bitching that Axl didn't personally take time out of the studio (halting the mixing process) to let us all know, and asked someone else to do it for us.
Some of you people were bitching when we weren't getting any updates.  Now we have an update, and are you happy?  Like fuck, you are.

Would you then translate that as meaning that frank is therefore sitting around at the recording sessions, but not recording, i wouldnt see the point of that. i mean, on the website, hes looking at bumblefoot tuning a guitar. is that all he's doing then..?

No... it means Frank played on some tracks.  Not all.
Last time I heard, someone asked him how many and he said five.

there is a thread called something like "CD decepcion thread", ya know? If you do not know, you should read the rules before posting here. You should go there, not here. The link is exactly this: go there and stop being negative here, please?
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=43408.0

I cannot believe this has gone into over 18 pages. Axl Did say if anything changes we would be informed - and we have been. whats the problem?
Im sure if we had heard nothing by March 6th the same people would have been moaning saying we have been missled once again , this really is a no win situation.
 Personally Im pleased Del James gave us an update, at least its finnished now and down to mixing and whilst I Understand that Can either take 2 weeks or 2 years. I believe The Band and the record company want this album out as soon as possible

Del James said something. And as it is published on gunsnroses.com, it's definately Axl's opinion. So it's uninteresting wether Axl or Del wrote it, the content is important. And the content is good news, consequently there are reasons for us to be happy.

Concerning the tour dates, I think we will get an announcement including all dates of the next tour...

In all probability much of the album has already been mixed.

The delays and scheduling problems were probably due to getting
the mixer back in (Andy Wallce?) and/or getting the equipment.

Exactly.  I'm going to bow out of the "debate" for now, but here's my suggestion:

Axl4eva's assertion is there are pretty much NO "legal issues" that would come up and NOT have paperwork filed publically with the courts.

My assertion is there are PLENTY of legal issues that don't require court involvement.

If anyone wants evidence as to who is right...please, call a friend who is a lawyer (and who know, for sure, is an accreditted member of the bar), or a lawyer you have on retainer...whatever...and ask them about it.  I have absolutely NO doubts what their answer will be.

I'll say it again...my last comment on the issue....contact a presiding member of your state bar and ask them the same question:

Is it ethical, after disclosing that I have a "legal degree" (of note...you never did say you were a lawyer...paralegal, maybe? In which case the discussion is moot...), to dispense legal interpretations, advice, or opinion, in public or private consultation, without identifying myself and providing credentials OR, at the very least, advising them to seek out an accredited member of the bar for verification.

Let us all know what they say.

i think what we need is a judge, and that would be the first trial held online. :hihi:

on topic, since 2001 axl and other band members have talked about the record being mixed/finished. from a tentative date to no date at all, go figure!

Well considering I work with a Probate Judge who is on the ethics board for Ohio's bar I can guarantee it is 100% fine to give your opinion anonymously on any legal issue.  I sent you the address where you can check all ethics issues,  you were wrong, seriously give it up.  There are 100's most likely 1,000's of law blogs online, written by anonymous lawyers discussing specific cases.  In fact you can buy books written by anonymous lawyers or compilations of UNIDENTIFIED lawyers.  While it does create moral questions as to giving advice, which I would never do online, not because you would get disbarred (you wouldnt), but rather because you could get sued if someone takes your advice and you were wrong.  However, I am not wrong about this and gave no advice, just the facts on the legal process.  It takes a dumb guy to argue something when they are completely proven wrong.  All states ethics codes are online, you said "every states ethics code prohibits this."  In fact they actually say the opposite. 

Also, what I actually said was that there were no legal issues that were delaying this album, if you want to go back to how this started.  You say "they settle things before it goes to court" etc...  So you want me to believe there are complex legal issues, that are taking years to resolve without ever using the courts?  Theres a cease and desist request, not an order, but a request, by a private citizen and GNR's lawyers just give in without filing for discovery or a protective order, and the other party doesnt file for an injunction and yet this still slows down the album.  If they truly are dispensing with these claims with such efficiency that they never have to use the court to take depositions or do any discovery or seek summary judgement etc... then how are these legal issues slowing down the album?  You make no sense, you said it was in the ethics code, well search google you'll find 1,000's of lawyers who disagree with you or read the ethics code which says nothing even close to what you say.

Personally, I am not saying there are any legal issues holding up the album. There may be, there may not be -WE DON'T KNOW. However, there can certainly be major differences and disagreements between Axl and the record company over how to promote the cd, who will pay for promotion, tracklisting, what the first single will be, etc etc....that is just common sense. : ok:

Please see my last post.  And post, verbatim, the opinion of the presiding member of the bar you speak to, and identify them.

Oh, and noone said you would be disbarred.

In any event, you're combatively arguing in circles.

Thanks.

"It is against the ethics code of every state."  I sent you to the ABA site and to the government site of the recently updated, February 2007 full Ohio ethics code and both say THE EXACT OPPOSITE.  I am not posting the name of the judgeI work for on a message board, he's a public figure, and the last thing I want is a dozen calls asking for Axlrose4eva1 or something to this office.  However, if you really want to know where I work or the member of the ethics committee who i work for then instant message me on Axlrose4eva on AIM and i can fill you in on this stuff.  Seriously though I have to deal with law all day, dont really want to talk about law.  I am not saying they are definitely not dealing with how to promote or what track list with the record company (although since the album isnt turned in yet i highly doubt that).  I just responded to people saying legal issues are holding up this album.  If there were legal disputes to the extent they are holding up the album, again there would be filings with a court.  I responded to every point, proved you wrong left and right, I dont want to talk about law anymore I do so all day, I come here when im at work to escape law, procedure and ethics.

Dude, I want you to read this very carefully for all of us here, please.  :-\

Look very closely at that pic of Frank and BBF again, because I'd like to enlighten you about a couple of things.  : ok:

#1: - This new pic is not a studio shot in any way whatsoever. How do I know this? I'm gonna' tell you how. Frank and BBF are backstage at a GNR concert in this picture and not in a recording studio. No idea which concert so don't ask me but the Russian fur hat BBF is wearing should provide a clue to the more hardcore GNR followers here about that.  The other way I can tell this shot is a backstage one is because of the red drapes attached to the steel poles behind the couch they're sitting on. How do I know this? Because I was seated very close to the backstage area at the Toronto show and saw those same red curtains and also could see the band members interacting behind the curtains when they took a break during others solo spots. Axl has his own private backstage area on the left side of the stage which has black curtains because he's Lucifer or he's in league with Lucifer. Not sure about that one yet but it would seem to be so since he's like a God to a shitload of people. That's another thread topic though. Another way I can tell that they're not in the studio is if you look directly behind BBF's left shoulder you'll see a black box with GNR white text stenciled on it. That's one of their equipment transportation boxes. Follow me so far dude?  :P

#2: - BBF is not tuning his guitar. He's practicing playing something as that looks like a chord he's strumming on to me. Can't remember which one but it's like an A something or other. I haven't played guitar in a long time and can't remember which one it is. He's definitely not tuning it. Also it's not harmonics tuning and if he was tuning it the more standard way, his left hand would be on the 4th and 5th fret and not the 7th, 9th and 10th fret. Besides, those guys all have guitar techs that do all of that shit for them on tour.  :yes:

Frank and all of the other guys are on the payroll man and they get paid to be and stay in the band. It doesn't mean Frank's sitting around doing nothing all the time but just watching everyone else tune their instruments. He works when he's needed and when Axl calls him or something. Okay?  ???

I hope that helps you out a bit.  :beer:

The opinion of a law clerk, or JA, who has, seemingly, no knowledge about actual LEGAL PRACTICE in civil corporate matters (procedure you seem to have down...), doesn't hold much weight...either in the intrpretation of the bars ethics code, or in relation to the matters being discussed.  Mine doesn't hold much weight, really, either...so pointing anything out to you would be moot, and just result in more combative, circular arguments from you.  Do as I suggest.

You haven't "proven me wrong", you've just displayed a stunning lack of knowledge on how corporate civil law is actually practiced.

So, please do the following:

Please see my previous post.  And post, verbatim, the opinion of the presiding member of the bar you speak to, and identify them.

Until you're ready to actually DO that, lets just move on, shall we?

Yeah. I'm glad the update was posted even though we all knew what would happen if there was no new release date included in it.


When they give us a release date, we'll have a few saying it's the wrong date.... That's how things work. Some are never happy. Nothing is never good enough and there's always something to complain about.



/jarmo

I told you IM me on AIM i fyou really must know. ?I provided you with THE ETHICS CODE. ?You say it says that this is illegal, point out where it does. ?The Ethics Code is straight forward and is known by all attorneys. ?There is no legal jargin or anything. You said "every states ethic code forbids this" the entire E.C. section specifically mentions a lawyers ability to offer anonymous opinions. ?So how are you not proven wrong? ?You have the Ethics Code, you say it states anonymous opinions by attorneys are illegal, point out the section, you cant, because it doesnt exist. ?Wow, how can you argue you havent been completely proven wrong. ?People who dont even practice law or know anything about the american legal system can read this. ?I somehow am wrong for not wanting to post my place of employment on a message board, but I am very willing to give it on AIM. This is ridiculous, only reason why im talking about this is because it is serious to accuse a lawyer of ethics violations, i hate talking about law, but i do think that its important that 95% of the E.C. referts to ethics amongst clients and the other 5% refers to ones ability to give opinions so long as they are not in bad faith.  Seriously this is about the new announcement not law, you want to know this stuff just instant message me or even PM me.

Seems to be that way.  :(

I've said it before and I'll say it again.  :yes:

Even with all of the good things like money and other stuff Axl has (I know I shouldn't because I'm pretty much a poor working slave and wish I had some fucking money) I almost feel sorry for Axl at times.

Oh well, I'm sure he's a lot happier now than he was just a few years ago.  : ok:

Modified to add this: - Why has this thread been allowed to be turned into a fucking legal ethics issue anyway?  ???  :rant:  ???  Moderators?  ???

Holy fucking sheep shit Batman!!!  :o

I thought this was a GNR forum and not a fucking courtroom...  :rant:  :puke:

If Axl says a certain date is the official release date, it will absofuckinlutely be release on that said date, then that will be that. No one will say that date is wrong unless they are joking. YEa people always have complaints, but Axl saying a certain date is THE date of the albums release, then everyone who are fans will be fucking cool. That is all everyone wants to hear. Speculation is just tired. But you'd be surprised what a hard date would do.

No he did NOT. still we have been and got the update on the state of the album. 
That's extra nice of them. Whats the problem, indeed?

So are u saying you ?think the march is the date?


 :peace:

You guys are now having a purely legal debate, nothin to do with gnr. you are ruining the thread for many, im sure.

Pilferk, always respected your posts, honestly. But really, how many "last words" can you have? You have almost had as many as Axl has put finishing touches to CD.

I think you should both get a room. One of the esteemed legal institutions in which either of you works might oblige.

Its days like this make me wish i was a mod.

jesus. no. noone is sayin that, as he didnt guarantee that date.

Edit: AL's right.

This is off topic AND pointless.

I'm out.

 :beer:

i think ppbebe and myself should teach a class on interpreting that statement coz SO SO SO MANY of you have it wrong!

Absolutely right...and we're going in circles...so I really am "out" this time.  Seems likely almost everyone else on the board is bored by this one....

To be honest I'm at this point as well.

I pretty much check here every couple of days now to see if anything has developed. With this new "message from Del" it'll be even less now. There's only so much I can take.

I stumbled upon this today it comes from W. Axl Rose v. Geffen Records, a dvision of Umg Recordings, Inc., WL 3705691 (W.D. Cal).
----------

Subject to paragraph 10.03, Geffen and any licensee of Geffen shall have the perpetual right, without liability to any Person, and may grant to others the right, to reproduce, print, publish or disseminate in any medium the Album Artwork, your name, the names, portraits, pictures and likenesses of the Artist(Guns N' Roses/ GNR  "marks") ... and biographical material concerning them solely for purposes of advertising, promotion and trade in connection with you or Artist, the making and exploitation of Records[FN5] hereunder and general goodwill advertising for Geffen Records.

FN5. The term Records is defined in the Recording Agreement to include all forms of reproductions. Recording Agreement at paragraph 14.01.
------------------------------

According to their contract Axl cannot renegotiate or argue over promotion.  Geffen has the right to do what they want.  This was upheld by the court in 2005 and would not be overturned now.
------------------------------
From the same case:

In the other May 1, 1998 amendment, see Hoffman Decl. Ex. A, Axl Rose agreed, among other things, to deliver that new studio LP (which was even then long overdue under the Recording Agreement) no later than March 1, 1999 and received a substantial advance from Geffen in return. Hence, although other individuals have joined Axl Rose in performing under the name ?Guns N' Roses? since 1998, Rose is the only principal in the band.

Accordingly, Mr. Rose, the only ?Remaining Member? of Guns N' Roses. . . received an advance of $257,545 (for the GHLP) . . .and has not offered to return it.
-----------------------------
This pretty much shows that according to the courts in california and the contract (Axl could add members to it but has chosen not to) Axl is the only member of GNR.  It also shows that he definitely cares about money otherwise i think he woulda returned the quarter of a million dollars geffen gave Rose as an advance to GHLP.  None of this is bad though, its pretty standard.  Record companies suck they screw over artists, but people shouldnt bash people who say Axl is the band and this is about money because there is a lot of proof that says that. 

I believe this is a band, I believe Axl wants to make the best album possible and I think he is driven be ego, pride, and money.  I think he will come out with a great album, put on entertaining shows for years to come.  I just am greedy and want multiple albums and the longer we wait for this the longer we wait for next etc...  I guess I dont think people understand that I just wish Axl would go back to being the guy who doesnt cater to fans, who does what he wants when he wants.  I meant that as a compliment.

Everything is in Axl's hands, this album will be out when Axl wants, however, once he turns it over to the label he loses control.  I think that might be the reason for the delay, once the master recording is in their hands they can do whatever they would like, they could even re-master it if they wanted.  As long as that album isnt out Axl is in the drivers seat with the label, once its out, he is back to being at their mercy.

That doesn't mean that Axl can't come to terms with Universal (in another contract) regarding creative control of the album. I highly doubt Axl will let anyone tinker with the album once it's done mastering.  : ok:

So, Pilferk and 4eva, it looks like Axl probably did renegotiate the original gnr contract in 1998. The beginning of the new Gnr era. Hmmmmm.

What does GHLP stand for?

Also, is it possible to access the entire document?

Greatest Hits LP

I want to see that may 1 1998 amendment, exhibit a.... : ok:

so does this mean that Mar 6th aint happening? cuz thats how i read it....i'm just curious...alot of people took alot of shit when that date was questioned....myself included :P

aint no way march 6 th is possiable , it takes 8 weeks roughl;y when the record is finally mastered , according to Axl.

Yeah i can post the entire document as long as mods dont mind.? Also, I wont be able to tell anyone where I work, cause Westlaw searches cost 200$ a search and if they knew I was running searches for GNR cases theyd be pretty upset.
Its a really large document so ill put it up in a new topic, if mods wanna delete it or move it or whatever go ahead, cant link it cause its only reported in westlaw and you need a Westlaw account to get in and pretty much only lawschools and lawfirms have those.

http://news.aol.com/entertainment/music/articles/_a/gnr-scraps-new-album-release-date-again/20070222191609990001

GN'R Scraps New Album Release Date Again
By Jonathan Cohen
Reuters
NEW YORK (Feb. 22) - The seemingly never-ending saga of Guns N' Roses ' "Chinese Democracy" album rolls on, as the group has once again postponed the project's release.

What's taking so long? Just the ongoing soap opera that is GN'R.
? Get More on the March to 'Democracy'

The band announced in December that "Chinese Democracy" was tentatively due March 6, but with that date fast approaching, the album is back off the schedule.

"There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along," reads a post on GNR's Web site (http://www.gunsnroses.com).

"The good news is that all of the recording for the album has been completed," the post continues. "Drummer Frank Ferrer and guitarist Ron 'Bumblefoot' Thal integrated themselves into the recordings seamlessly and will have their presence felt."

"Chinese Democracy" is the first Guns N' Roses  album since the 1993 covers collection "The Spaghetti Incident?" In the ensuing decade, the group has lost every original member besides vocalist Axl Rose and burned through a reported $13 million in recording expenses.

On Wednesday, a high-quality version of planned album track "Better" made the rounds on the Internet but was quickly pulled from a number of blogs at the request of the band's management. In Los Angeles, modern rock station KROQ played it twice before a cease-and-desist letter arrived, a DJ announced.

GNR will return to live duty for its first-ever shows on the African continent April 27 in Johannesburg and May 1 in Cape Town.

at least all the recording is done now i'm guessing June :)

hopefully by June we'll be head banging :headbanger:

I'm sure a few websites are just copying this exact same text.

Needs more cowbell.

at least i got ''better'' out of this.damm it man it rockz !

I'm just pleased to see recording is finished!

from the statement Axl Made from December 14th 2006 'If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible'
the TENTATIVE date Axl Gave was March 6th?

Now The Statement made by Del James Made on Feburary 22nd 2007 'There is no official release date, as the band is currently mixing, but after some delays and scheduling difficulties, things appear to be moving along'

In the first statement We Had a Tentative Release date and the sentence 'if we are delayed you will be notified'. and In the second We had no Offical Release date and the sentence 'after some delays and scheduling difficulties'. Now How Have I Miss Interpreted those 2 Statements?  If you are hinting that the album will STILL be released on March 6th/March 5th, then Im affraid your going to be dissapointed

may or june are now looking alot more likely for the albums release

What makes you so optimistic?

what makes you so pesemistic?

i wouldn't say my guess is too optimistic considering we thought it'd be march originally.

i really believe axl wants to get it out there as soon as possible now, and with the live shows approaching i think he'll want the album done and handed over before they go on tour.

that would be great, if it came out by summer 8)
but i have faith the timing will ultimately be perfect :smoking: :beer:

If I were a bettin man, I'd say early 2008.



/bringbackadler

Maybe around the summer,I don?t know. I have no idea how the music industry works but normally ( atleast in my country) the best times for releases are around Christmas and around the summer. So,if all the recording?s done I don?t think it will take that much time to release it, but what do I know?. I just know that I?m very optimistic about it :)

You can't cut Axl's sentence in half, what he said was "If we are delayed for unseen reasons, you also will be notified as soon as possible in regard to a new date, and the album will be released as shortly thereafter as is possible."? That means he never said he would let us know simply that a delay has occured, but that when a delay occured they would notify us as soon as they had a new date in mind. Here they have updated us without a date, so it's like even though they're not sure when it's coming out, we got an update anyway. Which is good.

I have 2 comments:

1- It was nice to see Del make a statement that didn't alienate half the fanbase away from the band.

2- The term "everything seems to be going along fine" really makes me nervous.

It better not be May or June.  If it's not April fuck it.  Don't put it out.

Seriously? Why?  ???

What makes April okay, but not May?

I think it will be out June, maybe May! GN'R are in Japan in April and I'm guessing will carry on to other parts of Asia and hopefully Australia into May - then I think it will be out.

Then, another world tour once the album is out?!

It will be a Sept. release i bet.   Summer releases are avoided by record co. -- summer is for concerts, not album releases.

I think they will rush to have out before the summer then. If it's in mixing now, it can be done!

mixng can take 3 days ....3 8 hour work shifts

Remember what and who we're talkin about here though :hihi:

Because if it doesn't come out before this tour this craziness will never stop. Axl will just keep pushing it back and all of a sudden it will be 2010 and we will be saying Chinese Democracy starts now. 

I will always think optimistic ...speaking of wich the album could possiably finished mastering

As soon as that democracy hits china, we'll see that albumn.

Just saw VR's latest 'vlog'

Makes the Chinese Democracy update look pathetic.

Gonna be interesting to see what happens if the two bands release together

It's called realistic.

just for the timeframe sake... Ozzy is just starting the mixing of his next album, which will be out in early june...
so i guess a late April or May release is possible for GNR..

yeah but it's of course each up to each band how much mixing they want done, how many tracks they need to work on (as far as mixing goes) etc so it's impossible to say

I don't get it...I see June being a possibility..maybe by my b-day the 18th..who knows?

it must be horrible living with your glass half empty :hihi:  june is realistic man! :peace:

Anybody know how long anyone other than gnr took to master their albums back in 91? have tehnological advances really sped the process up?

Great question I would also love to know the answer to that

I think the possibility of this being a double album will keep the album from hitting the streets for at least another 3 to 4 months.

And that's being hopeful. ? ?:confused:



/bringbackadler

if it were gonna be a double album we would probably know ::)

yeah, i just said it to make some kind of timeframe it can take to mix a big album. Well, we dont know for sure what to come, if it will be double or what.. so yeah, it could take even longer.. But at this stage i belive it looks like a spring/early sumer release.. With the world tour and everything. The feeling that they making things happen as we speak, is enough for me  : ok:

if thats the case, i'd say june 2008

mixing and mastering does no take 3 months to accomplish , it is a matter of days.for all we know it could be finished already

i like your positive attitude! : ok: :beer:

How would we know?  ???  :'(

Axl's whole Modus Operandi on this project has for the most part, been completely shrouded in confusion and mystery.  :nervous:  :-X

Nobody within the GNR camp EVER gives much useful info on what's actually going on behind the scenes.  :no:

For all any of us know, Axl could have a big surprise up his sleeve for the whole world and is actually planning on releasing 3 CD's at the same time.

Something of mind-blowing proportions, that would end up topping all of his previous efforts.  :o

Think about it for a minute people because I believe that something like this might actually happen and wouldn't surprise me one bit.

Let's face it, with Axl Rose, anything's possible.  :yes:  :confused:

I'm probably wrong though and this is merely wishful thinking on my part but, it would be cool if it happened!   :beer:

Ok we have an update, and my guess is no CD on 03/06/07.  But it is close and as stated numerous time with Axl anything is possible.  Atleast they are updating the site.   :beer:

http://www.humbuckermusic.com/aug1820basmi.html

this site provides a pretty good overview of what a mixing process actually is since it seems a lot of people have misconceptions about it. ?It also tells about the different approaches to mixing and how some albums are mixed while recording and other albums dont even start mixing and adding effects and such until after all recording is done. ?Whichever approach GNR did and how much mixing has actually been done already will determine when the album is ready to be mastered. ?If the album is just starting to be mixed or in the early process (which the demos sounded like) then I would guess that this could be rather lengthy due to the different producers affiliated with this and Axl's perfectionism.

One month seems to be about the norm for albums right now in the mixing process (mastering can be done in 24 hours). ?However, who knows what phase of mixing they are at, if they are just having a producer/engineer do it or if Axl is working with them. ?I would say any guess about the albums release date is just that. . . a guess.

A guess indeed.

But my guy is telling me an end of June/ beginning of July release :)

mid summer releases tend to be avoided by the record company and itll be their ultimate decision when to release it.  My guess is itll be ready by end of june but not released till around september...  One bad thing is that while mixing takes most bands a month (GNR usually takes longer than most bands), from what ive seen is most bands who began mixing an album this january or february have release dates for their albums spanning from mid april till fall.  Even bands like Rush who take 30 days to record an album take a month to mix it, so itll be interesting to see what happens.  One thing we can say definitively though is it wont be out early march (didnt think it needed to be said, but a lot of people keep saying "with axl anythings possible"),

Most people would say "recording and releasing an album does not take 10 years to accomplish"...  : ok:

I think he probably wants to get it out as soon as humanly possible at this point just as much as the rest of the guys in the band, but with any business, all it takes is one guy to be sick, or on holidays until next week, and the whole damn project falls behind :-\

I don't care what the pessimistic people say. It can't take another 13 years to mix an album, so the album has to come out soon or a later.

CD updates are pretty much meaningless.  I like the sounds of this one though, so the hope is still there.  Hopefully thats the case with everyone else as well.

That's always been the speculation...that he renegottiated right around the time of Live Era.

No, I know.

I was simply responding to your post calling attention to the fact...basically saying "I'm not surprised" is all.

It can take sometime.?

After mixing they have to master it which should not take too much time.? The main thing after that is to press and package the CD's as long as they have the art work in place and after that...Promotion and in the stores.

Unless there are upper management problems with distribution and royalties?

Who knows.

Now I know how reliable HMV is...so I am just letting you know what is being reported.

From Blabbermouth.net

GUNS N' ROSES: 'Chinese Democracy' To Arrive In September? - Feb. 26, 2007

The web site of HMV, the leading music retailer in the United Kingdom, is listing the release date for the eternally delayed new GUNS N' ROSES album, "Chinese Democracy", as September 17. No official release date has yet been announced for the CD.

Longtime GUNS N' ROSES associate Del James has revealed in a new online posting that "Chinese Democracy" is currently in the "mixing" stage.

GUNS N' ROSES will headline South Africa's My Coke Festival in Johannesburg on April 27 and Cape Town on May 1. The band will also perform in Japan, Thailand, South Africa, South America, Mexico, Australia, and New Zealand.

GUNS N' ROSES did complete its first successful North American road trip in over a decade last year, along with a European trek.

The album can come out whenever they want it to..mixing and mastering would not take long working on it everyday for a few weeks...tops and mastering a day maybe two for some strange reason the first day didn't pan out.. somebody is dragging their heels.. CD is just a album right? Hell, I bet he's got 50,60,70 tracks on 1 song....mixing that shit would be a nightmare

Sorry FunkyMonkey, I don?t get it

this is for real or not??? september now ??

at their rate, they'll mix a song a month, which brings us to 5/2008

Dave--everyone remember Dave, who left in a puff--always said the new band started in 1998. I guess good ol' Dave was  right after all. About something. :rofl:

HMV has been wrong before but I guess that is what they have on their site now as a release date... according to Blabbermouth.net

http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=67816

Well the UYI albums were released in September 1991. Maybe CD will be Sept 07...

I for one hope that it isn't the case. Because then by September, we'll get another excuse that it's pushed back until christmas, then christmas will come and it'll get pushed back to 2008... :hihi:

Thats the magic GNR formula

What I find weird is that Axl said a tentative date of March. So he can't have imagined mixing would have taken that much longer, even if the schedules were delayed I would have expected a date before september

I think by now it should be pretty clear that they never planned on March 6.  I think that when Merc made his announcement it was about 3 months before 2006 and it sounds like he thought he could expedite the entire process.  Axl says Merc believed that this album.  Axl obviously wanted to stop touring and had to provide some comfort to fans who were disappointed at the end of 2006 with no CD.  March 6 was a date that obviously would buy him some time, but theres no way that he could have possibly believed it.  I think September sounds like a good possibility, the thing about HMV and Blabbermouth is that they have been wrong about release dates before, but theyve never been overly pessimistic.

I don't think even Axl knows exactly how long the process will take and when it might come out. His March 6th announcement proves that.  Which just shows that HMV definitely doesn't have a clue about a release date. But we were updated about the progress only 2 months after that announcement. In the grand scheme of this album's long , crazy production, that really isn't too bad.

If I had $1 for every time HMV posted bogus information... ::)

Axl's not stupid, why would he suggest a bs date just to keep people happy after years of not saying anything?

Logically he thought mixing and mastering would take a month or so after the announcement and then 2 months to release, thus March 6th. In reality probably what happened is the recording took a little longer than anticipated and then they missed their mixing timeslot, therefore there was a delay. Now that the mixing is happening they are back on track and I'd expect a June or July release.

But then again, there could be other factors at play such as commercial reasons that I couldn't comment on.

Why would he want to keep people happy after guaranteeing 2006?  1. so he can cancel a tour no questions asked and 2. to keep fans.  He knew he was going to have BBF and Frank record, he had to know that this didnt come close to his 8 weeks in advance to the record company time limit.  What mixing timeslot? where are you getting that information.  You pick a date 2 months in advance cause it seems close, then before that date you release the actual release date, it strings people along, keeps them interested.

here we go again. people posting speculation based on very shkey foundations, and not being honest about that!

AxlRose4eve1, where did you get the info that axl new the adding the work of bbf and frank would take us beyond march 6th?

your only answer is that you did not get it from anywhere, even from logic. because you have no idea when they started adding their parts, or even if they are adding to whats there (or simply contributing to songs that were not complete when the predecessors left), or replacing bh and brains parts. and you have no idea of the delays alluded to by Del James on their website.

Actually I know for a fact that Frank and BBF were recording parts in mid january.  Even if they recorded the day the tour ended, the album still needed to be mixed and mastered before being turned in.  Axl says it takes 8 weeks from being turned in.  Its simple math.  If Frank and BBF recorded for even one day, lets say January 7th, at best mixing would be finished February, 8 weeks from then is April.  Recording new parts made it impossible to get a march 6th date.  I think Axl knew when he made his statements he was going to record new parts.

It isnt speculation at all to say that BBF and Frank were recroding well into january, mixing takes a month, even on non complex albums.  Rush recorded an album in 3 weeks, mixing still took a month.  March 6 was a well strategized midway point imo, he probably figured he would have an actual date by then.

i gotta agree 100% with AxlRose4eva1 here

IMO the date was a smoke screeen to settle people down....it came right on the heels of that italian site closing....and the boards were getting a bit stir crazy....it was a stall tactic plain and simple. after 6 moths of touring the guys went thier separate ways back to thier families for the holidays...so after the holidays (starting jan 2nd) they had a week to accomplished everything....just not feasible. :peace:

They'll say something on the 6th.

I don't believe it was any kind of smoke screen.

March 6th was a tentative date that could've happened if everything went smoothly.

Now, if you read Del's update, you'll see that he mentions delays and scheduling difficulties.




/jarmo

How could it have happened if it takes 8 weeks to release after it has been turned into the record company.

If the album was able to be finished in one day, BBF and Frank recorded everything in one day, it still had to be mixed.  Mixing of a record this size takes at least a month, if it could be done in a week wouldnt the album be turned into the record company by now?  Im just wondering how it could possibly happen mathematically, not trying to be a dick, but if you add up the days March 6th was not possible.  8 weeks, +mixing time= past march 6th.  So even if they started mixing on January 1 (which clearly wasnt planned or possible) they still wouldnt have made March 6th.

How exactly do you know that?

Who told you the original schedule for the recording and mixing?




/jarmo

Axl said they had to go do minor touches to the album, obviously recording wasnt finished.  As you said there are mixing engineers who do the mixing, so if recording was finished there was no reason to cancel the tour.  So clearly at the time of the release mixing had not been started. Axl's own words were 8 weeks from when the album is turned in.  I have searched for major albums being mixed in less than 3 weeks and cant find any examples, maybe they are out there, but the vast majority take over a month.  On this time scale, how could March 6 be possible?  I just dont see how the math would work.

^ axl also mentioned unforseen delays in the same sentance as march 6th :hihi:

pretty amazing that 3 months later there was actually delays :o :rofl:

anyway i'm past that just saying i never beleived the march 6th date....hopefully the mixing goes smoothly and we'll have a firm reelase date soon...regardless in the mean time some fans that have never seen gnr will get to watch the band live in japan and africa and wherever else shows have been scheduled.

i'm taking this a day at a time now, if a release date isnt announce today i'll check back tommorrow and maybe I'll get lucky.... :hihi: :peace:

axlrose4eva1.....i think 8 weeks before march 6th was Jan 9th...but yeah anyway, they had from say march 21-march 23...then jan 2nd to jan 9th....like 9 days or something to finish it up....

@ jarmo...just common sense based on peoples normal holiday schedules...who really does anything between dec24th and jan2nd?

Still mixing would have to be done by the 9th, that would be nuts.  Hell I hope Axl has a way to mix the entire album in a few days, but so far Ive seen no examples (especially of albums with techno/synths) that have been mixed and mastered in less than 3 weeks.  Im not saying what Axl did was wrong, but I dont think its possible to believe that March 6th was a possible date at the time of the announcement, at least i cant figure out how the math works.

i see your point. you may well be right. but it is speculatie to say that axl new i would be this way all along, as, like i say, we dont know what has held things up since the statemment, or what del is refering to in his statement.

by the by, how do we know that the were recording in january?

Just a point:

You're assuming NONE of the tracks were finished and mixed when applying that "one month" timeline.

The truth is, we don't know what's been finished or not finished, mixed or not mixed.  The "one month" process you're referring to assumes that you go right from recording ALL the material/tracks to mix.  We're not sure that's the case with CD, given the length of time the recording process took.

For a point of reference:  Axl announced the UYI albums have been finished, recording wise, about 6 weeks prior to their release.  If you look at the UYI credits, you'll see mixing was done all over the place,  probably at varying times....not in one straight shot on all the material at once.  That way, once the last tracks were done, only the mastering on THOSE tracks needed to be completed.  Could be the same with CD (or not).  We just don't know.

What makes you assume that the entire album was to be mixed then?

edit damn pilferk you beat me.

good points pilferk....but i still dunno...IMO march 6th was a long shot at best...the only one it can hurt is axl's rep cuz media outlets immediately posted stories saying CD would be out for sure....wrong info but still why give media another reason to hate on the band and axl :-\

 How about everyone chill out and patiently wait to hear official news before assumptions are made... Just an idea. :o

cuz if we dont talk about something then the board becomes really boring :hihi:

 Touch?.  ;D

The leaked tracks is what makes me assume that mixing has not been finished. ?If mixing had been finished or a majority had been done then you still have to record new tracks, mix it and get that done by january 9th? ?BBF was recording well into January it was posted several times. ?However, lets say he didnt plan on BBF and Frank recording parts, and the album was mostly mixed, then we should have a release date in a day or two, since I doubt the mixing process moved backwards. ?So I think the mixing time now will show how much was actually done, based on the leaks I would guess mixing was barely started.  If mixing was almost dont, and all that was needed to do was record BBF and Franks parts then this album should be mastered and turned in by now.

i second the above posts! or 3rd pilferks post, as the case may be.

I agree, March 6th was ambitious, given what we know of the timeline Axl laid out.  I don't think it was impossilbe, but it would have been difficult and everything would have had to have fallen into place perfectly.  Honestly, in GnR history, how often does THAT happen?

I'm not sure it hurts his rep so long as we get continued updates and something concrete in the very near future....

If so why should axl himself have tried to risk his own rep? the answer is no he didn't. He set the tentative date only because it seemed possible then.

The leaked tracks are YEARS old, now...and not really evidence of anything in '07.  Even the more recent leak of Better (has it been decided if it's different or just cleaned...I haven't followed?) doesn't exactly have a date/time stamp on it to tell us when it was mixed.  Any attempts to categorically say the leaks were "mixed" at a certain time is a stretch...all we know is they were mixed prior to them leaking.  That's pretty vague.

As for what BBF and Frank were recording, again, you're assuming ALL the recording they were doing was for tracks on CD.  That may, or may not, be the case.  In addition, maybe recording for them took longer than Axl thought it would.  Maybe they got in studio, Axl liked what he heard, and decided to record even more, replacing tracks that already existed..  Again, you're saying the date he knew, in DECEMBER, that the date he gave was incorrect.   What happened, or didn't happen, in January is irrelevant to that point, unless you think Axl is clairvoyant.

Also, remember, Axl said "approximately 8 weeks" so shoving a hard line "january 9th" isn't accurate, either.  AROUND that date, given a few days, would be a more accurate picture. 

On the mixing, that's my point.  We just don't know.  Maybe most of the album was mixed, maybe not.  Maybe the additional material by BBF and Frank will make that process longer, maybe not. Maybe, maybe, maybe.  It's just an awful lot of maybes to base a "firm" opinion on, IMHO.  We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.  If we get a date within the next week or so, we'll know where the process was.  Same thing if we don't.