Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Every month, RS Magazine has a section devoted to single downloads.  The current issue features a stage shot of Axl with the caption "Step Away from the Pro Tools Console."  "Better" is highlighted and labeled as the "MUST-HAVE" download of the month.

******

"Axl slips out the first tune from Chinese Democracy - or is this just a cry for help? (Leaked)"

"It's fitting that Axl Rose called what could be the first single from Chinese Democracy "Better" - he's been futzing with the same set of songs for years, polishing them until he can see his cornrows reflected in every gleaming note.  And now that this apparently finished version of the tune has leaked, it's time for him to stop.  As live versions and a previously leaked demo have revealed, "Better" kicks ass - it attempts to be both the poppiest and the heaviest Guns 'n Roses tune ever, and it nearly succeeds.  This verion, however, is almost hilariously ornate.  There are several different guitar solos in wildly varying styles (from Tom Morello-esque bleeping to Slash-like lyricism), disparate sections that sometimes sound like altogether separate songs and at least three different Axl voices (creepy baby, sexy pop crooner, and heavy-metal she-devil).  One thing's for sure: Even a single additional overdub would definintely make this worse."

This is big news and I'm sad to say I think I agree with their assessment. I love the first leaked demo and love it live, but am still not crazy about this current leak. Too bad this is the one everyone's hearing.

I like the "Step away from the pro-tools console" bit. ?I agree. ?Cool that RS gave the tune some pub.  Although them assuming its the "finished" version is a little hasty.

cool nice find : ok:

meh i liked the first leak and live versions better than this new version that is out.

I would also like to add Chinese Democracy from Rio 2001 is the best version of the song.

Aww man if Axl reads this we ain't never gonna get a single.  He'll only focus on the "wildly varying styles" part and commence "re-tooling" to infinity. 

They don't seem to be able to properly judge a mix if they think this newest demo are a final version. I'm sorry, but it's pretty obvious that this is not a matter of overproducing the song, but rather understand that this is only a demo - with a different mix than the previous, but still a demo.

But I agree, I prefer the first version.

Me, I'm hoping that the version reviewed isn't the final version.  I *love* the added vocal harmonies at the end, but wish the guitar hadn't dropped in the mix, especially considering it meant pushing the effects and keys higher.

I was just happy to see the leak getting such a prominent feature - again, it's the "Must-have" download with a 1/4 page pic. of Axl onstage.  I love how the review is both fair and positive, and totally agree with the reviewer's message:  enough is enough.  Time to put the music out there.   :beer:

Since this song is not available on itunes or anything arent they promoting illegal downloads  ???

Lets bust em  :hihi:

I agree with evergreen.  This little blurb probably just pushed CD back another three months.  Hehe.   :smoking:

People seem to get aggitated around here anytime someone has brought up the concept of the album being overproduced, this commentary seems to validate that concern. I am just hoping someone from the GNR camp saw this blurb and decided to get the final version of this and other songs closer to the original leaked sound than that of the latest leak.

I suspect this version of Better was leaked to get some feedback on how people felt about the production value before final mixing commences, and lets hope they see that there is such a thing as too much of a good thing.

agree with the article, enough is enough lets hear some songs. I also agree that i liked the first version better. At the same time if i never heard the first version id be happy with the leak that is out now.

Most of those "download now" songs have star ratings,right? So what was "better" rated?? Could somebody post a scan if possible?

P.S. Umm.I'm sure I'm the minority here,but seriously ... I honestly do NOT hear that much of a difference in these 2 versions! Jesus,people act as if it's a complete re-work of the track,when in reality ... Yes,it is more polished ... The lead guitars are slightly farther back in the mix ... and of course,the added vocal harmonies at the end,but still ... it's the same damn song.It rocks just as hard as the original leak.I'm not sure which I prefer,really ... but the new leaks tinkering (in my opinion) doesn't justify a "this song sucks now" type of comment.

Oddly enough, "Better" was the only one that didn't have a "star" rating.  All others did.  So can we assume a 4/4 rating?

Not quite sure how to post a scan, by the way...

I don't think this reviewer really knows what he's talking about.

He mentions all the new guitar solos... but that's just wrong. ?

He probably heard TWAT or something else a while ago and just got them confused.

Baz,I think it's only the leaked songs that never get the star ratings,now that I think of it.I'm curious who wrote the current review? Was it Brian Hiatt?? If so,he's the one who wrote the initial review for "IRS",TWAT" and "Better" back when they were originally leaked.Of course,he loved "Better" and referred to it as a song that beats most of Use Your Illusion.He also wrote the concert review for the NJ show last year,and once again,praised it. "The poppy yet headbanging "Better" is among the best he's (Axl) has ever written" he said

And Goose, I hear ya.It sounds to me like he's describing a completely different song.To go from loving it,to all of a sudden talking (against) the various guitar solos,various Axl vocals,etc ... That just doesn't make sense.Like I said before,it's the same damn song.

Put the fucking album out, Axl. For god's sake, put it out.

(DISCLAIMER: Yes, I'm talking to myself. I'm not totally delusional yet.)

Yep, it's Brian Hiatt.  Sorry for not listing that in the original post.

Yep, it's Brian Hiatt.? Sorry for not listing that in the original post.

What an ass he is.I was really happy to see Axl had somebody on his side in the media,especially a guy like that from Rolling Stone ... but yeah .... eventually,they'll all find something bitch about.

New GN'R started off with a revolutionary sound. Did 2002 suck? Yes. Axl sucked. The image sucked. The music didn't. Compare The Blues then to The Blues now. Notice a difference? Yeah, The Blues is severely lacking in originality and energy nowadays. It sounds like an average ballad. In 2002 it was extraordinarily beautiful.

If Axl reverts now to the old GN'R then what has this all been for? NOTHING!

Overproduced? OF COURSE IT IS! It's Chinese fucking Democracy! $15 million! It sure as hell better be over-produced or I'm gonna wonder where all that money went that could have fed starving children.

You'll think I'm being sarcastic. I'm not. I think all the excess improves these songs. It adds something special. It's not excess just for the sake of excess. Those synths in Madagascar and those crazy ass synth loops on the outro of The blues at Tampa '02 and Buckethead's awesome scaling outro for the song kicked major cabooty. 2002 GN'R had a special quality that is lacking now, and it's BACK in the new "Better' leak. Chris Pitman's synth coupled with those bluesy Finck vibes and Buckethead harmony? BLISS!

I like Ron as a person - he's nice - but I think he's more of a straightforward virtuoso than Buckethead, and I think BH's sound added a lot to GN'R in 2002 as well.

That's just my two cents. I want a big, fat, bloated Chinese Democracy with a crisp, revolutionary sound of super funky techno beats, Robin Finck guitar soloing and Buckethead layering. I want something fresh and exciting - like the material we heard in 2002 - rather than some guy in a leather jacket trying to relive his glory days in the '80s.

That's one aspect of '02 Axl I prefer - that "I don't give a shit" attitude. He approached his image, the new band and their music with a certain recklessness in 2002 that backfired when the image failed to make an impact. But the music was amazing, and it isn't so much now.

I like the new Better leak a LOT more than the original. 

I'm GLAD this may be a more finished version of the song, because it seems to imply that Axl is bringing back that '02 sound into the mix - I was worried that he was re-recording everything with BBF + Frank and getting rid of all the '02 work... and apparently he isn't after all. Thank god.

Like I have said before, better is an amazing song. It has become very popular and highly regarded to many radio stations in the USA and it hasn't even been released yet... It appears that GNR is winning the battle at home something that they lost in previous years.

It just shows that music really does provail, and ; not secondary bullshit such as name etc.


aside from that, Better is a great song, and its one that you can't get sick of, which is rare to find it nowadays, I can just leave it on reapeat and never tire.

I'm sorry, I dont mean to seem like a prick or a flamer, but I *really do* hear a big difference between the two versions, the second (and, sadly, final) version is MUCH TOO heavily polished with added effects and diminished "attitude" (I'm not a musician, so I dont know how else to put it, the demo was more "pure-rock" feeling). 

I really hate thinking this is the final version for Chinese Democracy; I was really in love with the demo.  This is actually the first leak im not big on, which, a week ago, I never thought I'd say.

For the first time, I'm worried about Chinese Democracy... am I the only one?

The review is perfect in my opinion. ?Exactly how I feel about the new track. ?The guitars are TOO low, and the new sound affects GOTTA go. ?Other than that Axl's voice is still crisp, but not as good as the first leak. ?It's a shame no one is getting that track instead.

Exactly how I feel Grog!!

it's the same fuckin' song with a different mix that's all,but the solos should have been louder ?:smoking:

The effects are terrible and the vocals are too slick sounding, along with the guitars being mixed down, at what point is it not the "same fucking song" anymorE?

It is the same format, but it is essentially a different song because one (the first leak) was supposed to sound like a rock song with real guitars, while the new one is an attempt to have GNR sound like neuterd pop-rock ala Bon Jovi or Nickelback. The reviewers comments point out that very fact, and I hope someone in the GNR camp heeds the advice to get back to sounding like a rock band.

I don't really think they were dissing this leak. It says



Meaning, it's time to stop, where it is.

That said, this current version is not the final one that will be on the album, Ron told us that. The newer one will hopefully have an even better mix.
 
 
 

look it up on youtube !  make sure you put in "better 2007", you'll find it.

The newer leak sound NOTHING LIKE BON JOVI OR NIKELBACK.

And remember, the newer leak is JUST A DEMO.

Everyone needs to calm down, the FINAL version is yet to appear.

You might be in denial, because when you listen to the initial leak and the newer leak, it is clear as day that the newer version is a clear attempt at sounding poppier by turning down the guitars and turning the harmonizing up. This song sounds like something Axl has tried to create with the intent of getting it on top 40 radio. The previous version with much harder and agressive sounding guitars would not make it. The new version has been neutered just enough he could slip into the contemporary top 40 with it.

I like the newer version better, I don't care if it is more "top 40." To me it hasn't lost its teeth.

But like I said before, the newer leak is just a demo. Wait until you hear the album before you go apeshit.

i think it sounds great and i just heard it once just a couple minutes ago,  it has a new fresh sound just tweeked a little bit to perfection.

i could pu the new version on a cd 15 times and listen to it over and over while driving around.\

i think we are all inf for a pleasant suprise once CD hits the shelves.  and i think this album is just going to appear in stores and i feel its not too far off,  wasnt this the first time they playted gnr new material on the radio.,..  CD is in the air..

Totally dead-on. They were right about the first version kicking ass. The new one does not.

Russian Roulette, you can't even hear some of Buckethead's soloing on the new "Better" leak because they've cranked the other channel with the synth and computer sound effects. The synth and effects were always there. It's just they cranked the left channel (if you crank the original leak loud enough with headphones, you can hear all the crap in the background but you can still clearly hear Bucket playing). I personally think it was some sort of fan remaster. By cranking the left channel, they screwed with some great parts of the song and made it sound a lot worse than before. The original leak was ballsier.

Could someone point me to Ron's comments about the new Better?

You people are fucking deaf. Maybe you need some ear training. Everything that is in the latest leak of Better is in the other version. Go and listen to the instrumental, you can hear it better there. The quality is just shit. With the newest one, the quality is good so hear everything like you should. The only differences between this one and the one from '06 are Axl's harmonies and his voice is louder in the mix, Robin's solo is louder in the mix, and Bucket's parts are indeed turned down a little too low. Everything else is the same, but now that he have a better quality version, you can actually hear Dizzy and Chris' parts.

See, this is why leaks arent good. People expect something to be a certain way just because a shitty quality version of a song portray's the mix a certain way. Maybe you shouldnt listen to the leaks if you cant understand that they are demos and they are shitty quality and dont accurately show how the finished song might sound.

P.S - The song hasnt lost any of its ballsiness. I dont know how you cant hear the guitars. They are still the loudest thing, bar Axl's voice. It's still heavy, catchy, crunchy, and in your face. The song was made to blast.

Exactly, this is the only thing I took notice of when I listened to it. The left channel's volume just got boosted way up so you can hear those synth effects at the beginning whereas they were harder to hear in the old leak. I think note for note everything is identical in both leaks and anyone could have taken the original leak and cranked up the volume in the left channel to come up with this new one.

That's what I initially thought, but someone put the file through some kind of analyzer and determined that the actual quality of the recording is higher than the original leak, and it is impossible to expand whatever was expanded. This guy was a pro sound editor and said that something of this quality (the new leak) came straight from a DAT tape or something like that... I thought it was a fan-made remix, too, but apparently it's impossible for that to be true.

Nope, the lyrics are different in the 2nd chorus in the new one. Axl has more harmonies in the na na na part. No fan remixing can do that. It's real. Both BBF and Dizzy also confirmed.

No matter what they do not everyone's going to be pleased.  Take "The Blues" as a perfect example.  While people still argue over which is better the 2000-2001 version or the 2002 version because they have different tempos I've yet to hear anyone say the 2006 version was better than the 2002 version.  And yet the 2006 version is much more minimalist with fewer digital effects and fewer layers of sounds.  You have a lot of people complaining about how they don't want the album to be over produced and yet in the case of that song 99.9% of the people who've heard both versions prefer the more heavily produced one

There is no happy medium.  There's always going to be a faction that is going to complain about something.  If the album's "overproduced" there's a group out there that will say Axl is obsessive and over-indulgent.  If the album isn't heavily produced another faction will say "why did it take 10 years and $13 million to make this?"  Since it's obvious Axl has the final say in this, he should just consult with the band, make sure they're happy with the results and put the album out

The ice gets thinner for GNR i assume..
If they don't hurry up to release the album in the really near future the momentum might die for good  :nervous:

Since the recording process is finally done it hopefully does not take 6 months (or more) of mixing and mastering......


ah on topic: the old beeter was eehmm  better  :peace:

Its defo real, I think its even better than the first one.  : ok:

don't you think that some drum-fills are different; or is this also because of the loudness? i'm not sure. by the way: the rs critique is something that speaks to my heart and soul; but again: dizzy and ron said that this is not the final mix... so trust in andy wallace.

 I prefer the '06 version :) dont get me wrong though..the older versions kicked ass too :peace:
I'm with everyone that's saying just wait till the album comes out to judge it..it obviously isn't the finished version..so whats the big deal?

is it ok now to discuss leaked songs like Better, as I don't want a -karma.

The 2006 leak of Better was the best leak so far.
The 2007 leak of Better was a joke, and I didn't take it seriously.

I feel pretty much like this guy. While there's not that huge of a difference in the versions, the first one was a much better, much more raw rock song. Some songs work being drowned in synths. 'Chinese Democracy' works with the new synth intro and then all the subsequent synths during the song (lotsa Chinese-sounding things there in the back). Some songs beg to be a "guitar song" and 'Better' does that  The into, for example, doesn't sound quite as powerful when those strings are amped up to 11. With the new version, I litterally have to try to listen for Robin's guitar in the intro, it's too buried in the strings. It's still a fantastic song, but less is more in this case...

I definitely hope the final studio cut has even more synth !!

The more synth the "better".......    :yes:




*bba*

I don't care about the synth (nore/less).  His voice and the lyrics of the song to me are bread and butter of the song.

Yeah, I think the drums are a little different too.. I missed that one, thanks.

The bit I really fucking hate, and the bit that makes me think the 2007 leak is fake, is the part featuring the wooden sounding glockenspiel, that sounds like bubbles rising. It sounds like it has been added over the top (of the good 2006 leak) to drown out the original sound  :-\


[/size][/b]


/Axl should play glockenspiel during live gigs  ;D

I like it, end of.. ?The trouble is because some fans have had so little to chew over the last 14 years everything gets over analysed to death.

Agree with RS sentiment though, "Lets just get the Motherf****r out there man! :yes:

The 2nd one is all synth'd out- it's brilliant.

Hey Mulletheads -- the 80's ended a LOOOOOONG time ago.? If Axl just wanted Better (and all of CD) to be a basic guitar rock album, he wouldn't have needed Pitman in the first place.

Pitman = the future

The new leak reflects that.  Accept it, or just go listen to Dokken for the thousandth time.

where do you hear a glockenspiel in better???

Synth haters live in the 80's, this isn't AFD- this is Chinese Democracy.

To anwser that i'd have to go and listent to the track. There's a moment during the song when there's no singing, and only a climbing (glockenspiel) sound (which is more apparent on the 2007 leak) , followed by a guitar, followed by singing. It's about half way through the track and only happens once. During the live performance, Axl does what appears to be a small robot impression (maybe buckethead inspired).

-

at 3.14 (original 2006 leak) the bubble climb plays.
I couldn't tell you the exact time during 2007 leak, as I erased it. It's on the 2007 leak that the sound sounds more glockenspiel (and out of place).

I think this sound is just from the synths.

And please, stop with this annoying shit with Pitman and synths. It's just a demo, not the final version. Of course the final mix will have more guitars than this demo - they don't have 3 guitar players for nothing - and we'll still be able to notice the synths and keyboards.

All in all though, I dont get Rolling Stone's review here. How they are saying that its like three different songs in one or whatever they said. The song's structure has always been the same, that hasnt changed. So I dont get why they say this: "There are several different guitar solos in wildly varying styles (from Tom Morello-esque bleeping to Slash-like lyricism), disparate sections that sometimes sound like altogether separate songs and at least three different Axl voices (creepy baby, sexy pop crooner, and heavy-metal she-devil)."

I mean all that stuff was in the first leak too, and when they reviewed the New Jersey show they called Better one of Axl's all time best songs. I mean they arent really bashing it, they still believe its a great song, I just dont know why they are acting like none of that stuff was on the other demo. There was still 2 guitar solos, disparate sections and Axl using three different voices. All that stuff is the same, so I dont see their point really.

Jackamo and the Mother Gooser are turning Pittman into a punchline. Although I applaud their adoration for the man, but jeeze, we get the point.

Oh, and I like the synths.

I've never viewed Better as separate songs, although the way the song changes, it does feel like different sections cut n'pasted together. I liked the effect.

We're just showing love.

The two leaks of Better just show different sides of the song.
One of them just-so-happens to be synth heavy- which I like.
And that's what I'm saying, the instrument itself which has been around Gn'R for a while- is reaching new levels.

That review is dead on.  The latest version is the worst one.  Theres just WAY too much going on.

Do you think the songs from "Chinese Democracy" are gonna be basic cable with 35 channels? No chance- they're gonna be a satellite dish with 1,000's of channels and better porn.

Sometimes less is more.  The rolling stone review is dead on.  Better has always sounded like 3 songs cut together, but this is nothing new for GNR.  I would say over half of their songs sound like at least 2 songs cut together.(I mean some of the bigger ones on each album Rocket Queen, Patience, Coma, Locomotive)  It is the small things that hold them together, this seems to be a musical effect that Axl likes and I think it works well.  I didnt see this as a criticism by Rolling Stone, in fact I thought it sounded like a compliment.  Still, I think the new demo of better sounds overworked and I totally understand the belief that Axl should not add anymore to it.  I know BBF has said this isnt the version, but I hope the real version is stripped of layers, not with more.

Better to show love than hate I guess!!

I love both versions of the song, but I tend to agree with the review - the second leak has a cleaner mix with less guitar, which makes the other parts of the song stand out (the weird sounds and effects) while burying some others (Bucket's runs, for example).  With the guitars lower in the mix, it's much easier to view the songs as separate parts.  To me, each version has certain strengths, and I'm hoping there's a third version with mid-ground between the two.

The other part I agree with?  It's time to get the music out. 

both versions are the exact same songs except for the little lyric change.... they?re just differently mixed and the quality of the new one is better....

i don?t believe in a single release by the way. it just doesn?t make any sense.

My only complaint with the new one is how they totally  neutered Bucket's shredding solo. it kicks ass on the first one, but the notes sound all mashed together and in the new one and it is way too low.

The latest leak is an unfinished, demo version of better.

Why worry about what RS says?

Trust that the band will get it right with the official, finished version.  :yes:

exactly :)

What annoyed met with the first version and again with this one is that the vocals have clearly been recorded sentence by sentence. I sure as hell hope they make that smooth in the final version.

I trust Rolling Stone, they get everything spot on, their sources are deep inside the music biz, Ive had ChiDem since November ::)

I'm hoping the final studio cut contains even MORE synth mixed in...

I think it's necessary for this song's success.    :smoking:


*bba*

21st, nay? :hihi:

The final cut will have the same structure, but the better mix will make it flow nicely like any other GN'R song. I'm confident about that. :peace:

I just spliced both together ... Cut the new intro, and added the old version with the louder guitars on top of the main section with a -6db volume.  The whole mix sounds fatter, but still reatains some of the new elements. :) It ROCKS!

Cool, Ive seen someone doing that too.. but dude, you'll be sooo flooded with pms now. :hihi:

So you can called the ''Better Frankstaein demo''. :hihi:

The only good thing about the new demo is the backing vocals near the end of the song. They completely murdered Bucket's influence which is a damn shame if you ask me. I thought the original Better demo was spot on...Whack in those new backing vocals and u got a top 10 hit on your hands!  : ok: