Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Hey, you know in the middle of Mad when the people start talking and we hear part of the "I Have A Dream" speech by MLK behind the drum track. There is a male voice in the middle who says:

"We always act like we can do anything. And it don't matter what we do...'cause maybe it matters more than we even know"

I know I am paraphrasing, but who says this?? Where is it from? Movie? TV show?

To me, it sounds like Michael J Fox for some reason. Is it him?? If so, where is this sound byte from?? Someone please let me know.

I think Mad is a great song, and in my opinion is better than a lot of the songs on the UYI records (Shot Gun Blues, Right Next Door To Hell, Perfect Crime, and the awful My World). I am not saying that these are bad songs necessarily (Except for My Word), but that Mad is just a better song that these. What do you guys think?

Anyways, I got off track. Can someone please answer my question above?? I apologies if this question has already been asked/discussed. And feel free to comment on anything else I have said as well.

Ben

Michael J Fox - "Casualties of War" 1989

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1727;start=msg24995#msg24995


Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we
do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than
we even know..
(Private Eriksson (portrayed by Michael J. Fox), Casualties of War,
1989; written by Daniel Lang)


/jarmo

Thanx for the reply jarmo & GG. I new that sounded lik MJF...lol

Thanks again!

Ben

do you like the way the solo part changes from rio to 02?
I don't  :(
But the voval changes ar cool :)

Speaking of the Madagascar solo, any chance that someone with too much time on their hands could sample all the quotes from their respective DVDs and assemble the backing track for the solo? It'd be handy for the musicians on the board who want to play the song live... :)

SG

Speaking of the Madagascar solo, any chance that someone with too much time on their hands could sample all the quotes from their respective DVDs and assemble the backing track for the solo?

That would take a long time and a lot of DVD's  :rofl: On NewGNR.com's message boards, there was a guy who done instrumental versions of 'Madagascar' and 'The Blues', and I think he said he had just that montage of quotes to play against...

I was just listening to "Madagascar", and I noticed that during the vocal montage in the middle, one of the voices sounds like Michael J. Fox.  You know, the guy who's going, "Everybody's acting like we can do anything, and it don't matter what we do...cuz maybe it matters than you even know."  Or something like that.  Does anyone know if that is MJF himself, and if so, what movie are those lines from?

its him from causalties of war

cool sample, excellent movie : ok:

I think he said "You made a time machine...out of a Delorean!?"


 :hihi:

LOL. ;D

I HATE the sound samples in that song.  Totally unecessary.

Personally I could do without the whole quote section. Maybe it could be shortened. It takes the steam out of the song.

Haha watching that now :rofl:

I dont think that a time machine would be a very good thing for axl to quote in his songs as he knows very little about Time...  :hihi:

LOL :rofl: :hihi:

the quotes are good but they spoil the solo.
you can't hear the guitar solo because of it...

I like the quotes. That bit of the song is really powerful and moving to me. The strength and tone of the guitar and the inspiring words of MLK really hit the spot.

Who does that solo by the way? I've forgotten.

I wonder if the guitarist listened to those quotes and was inspired to create the solo knowing they would be used. If so, then the quotes are essential because without them, the solo wouldn't exist.

@#$%Muther

Buckethead plays the solo.

i just happend to listen to estranged and madagasca back to back the other day and it hit me. do you think madagar is an intended sequel to estranged? some of the lyrics in estranged include lines like "i knew the storm was getting closer.." and "well i jumped into the river too many times to make it home..." while madagascar features lyrics like "i wont be told anymore, that ive been brought down in this storm, and left so far from the shore, and i cant find my way back..." the similarity between the two songs is so obviouse i cant believe i hadnt noticed earlier. so what do you think. just coincidence...

Its a good possibility. However only one person knows for sure, and he's not saying too much of anything right now.

damn, this would've been a damn good question to ask Axl!

the "storm" image is quite common. water, storms, the elements are sort of staples of any writer (especially Axl who incorporates them often in his songs/videos) as they are easily identified as emotional experiences. they are not terribly original either. Estranged is a song about emotional destruction, a very common theme. I suspect Madagascar is well, so they are similar thematically, but i wouldn't say that one is a sequel or that they need to be related in that way. All Axl's ballad songs are related, they are all about love and loss.

i like madagascar,and i think that song have more potencional than estranged(estranged is better song,but estranged is too long),and both songs talking about axls fellings

Although both songs have the word "storm", which means some kind of emotional pain in both of them, I think the subjects are different.

Estranged, as Axl said in the making of the video, is a song about a love desilusion and how he used to deal with it. It?s a sequel to November Rain (not only to the video, but to the song too).

Madagascar seems to be about freedom. 2 possibilities:
1- it?s a political song about african countries (like Madagascar), which is tottally possible since Axl reads books and watches many movies on those subjects (on Vegas 01 he said the song Chinese Democracy was inspired by the movie "Kundun"). Also, it has the strongest Luther King?s quotes and some movie quotes, one of them already used in Civil War, a political song.
2- it?s a metaphore about the old band.

Considering the lyrics, I think "The Blues" fits better as a sequel to Estranged: It?s also about a love that was not corresponded. This time specificaly about Stephanie (on the boston video, take a look at the images of a brunette?s blue eyes by the end of the song).

I agree with everything expect the seconf one. I don't rthink he will make songs (maybe one, no more than one) about the old band. If you look to Illusions, you'll see lots of lyrics that if was from Chinese Democracy you would think about the old band...

I think a big possibility is this song being about slavery.

Another one is about isolation. Madagascar, the island, was a part of Africa that "divorced" from the continent and started a new life, alone, developing its life independantly from the rest of the world. Like Axl did.

That's what I was meanning, F.Gunner... Axl is free of the chains that held him together with the old band...

at least on the song.. let?s hope those law suits end soon.

You know what, i totally know what you mean, and it is very hard to explain (though i think you did a good job). Madagascar is my absolute favorite new song but i absolutely see what you are saying about it being somewhat inaccessible (i think it has to do with all the quotes in the middle, however much i like them and think they do contribute to the song). It's also more obscure and symbolic than Estranged is, which is, like you pointed out, quite straightforward.


Reinaldo- i never knew that about the brown hair/blue eyes thing. interesting..
While i agree that the Blues fits, lyrically, better with Estranged, don't you concur that all of Axl's love songs fall under the same thematic/lyrical umbrella so its really don't appropriate to say that one is a sequel/prequel to another?

Wow, just listen Estranged and then Madagascar, they are very similar.Maybie Axl heard Estranged for about 56 ours and then he wrote Madagascar,dunno.But it?s a strong posibility that its a sequel

Baby Slash//

Yes, I agree with you. "Sequel" was just the word I (and bucketface, before me) ended up using to say two songs are similar on their styles, lyrics, subjects and feeleings... it's not necessarily a continuation.

Although Axl has other love songs, I think that, for the reasons above, Estranged and The Blues are very close to each other in some way.

The same thing doesn't happen to November Rain, Don't Cry, Patience nor Madagascar.

 :peace:

i know sometimes people take the piss out of my posts but... hey, you know im right....  gnr past 1991 songs are very negative... lets face it... new gnn.. coming back to life!! very  pink floyd??? but i think they are... gnr are back?!... old gnr=negative,
new gnr= poisitive (its coming, i can feel it in my bones)

 Very cool observation... and despite the commanility of certain imagery you did well to point to specific correlations and further, how the latter addresses and expresses resolution to issues expressed in the earlier work.   : ok:  : ok:

if you're interested in reviewing my interpretation of the quotes section in madagascar check out my post in this thread:  http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=4519;start=msg77778#msg77778

i cringe everytime someone says "i love maddy but i hate martin luther king quotes"

there are what 2 or 3 mlk quotes?

but all people remember is the mlk shit and it pisses me off

that song is an ingenius work of art

the quotes tell a story, the quotes arent there for shits and giggles they have a meaning, and i think its an awesome innovative way to express a song that no one has ever done b4, take a bunch of different quotes, put them together in a way that tells a story'

no wonder its taking axl so long to record CD

u have any clue how long it must have took to find all those quotes and piece them together like that?

i bet that took a long ass time just for that

i think axl is taking extra special care of each song and is making sure each one has brilliant ideas, instead of making half a dozen kick ass songs and putting good but filler tracks for the rest of the album

Maddy especially the MSG version is an unbelievable amazing song that is highly under rated and under appreciated by all GNR fans cause they cant get past the "MLK" quotes

I couldn't have said it better, you are SO right.

NewGnR.com did a deconstruct of all the quotes, where they came from and what they possibly mean alone and in context originally and in the song and it's like, Axl thought more about that one song then VR have about their whole album. Which isn't a criticism of their methods, just another reason to get off Axl's back.

And Madagascar was finished, i assume, before the House of Blues and isn't considered single material, which almost seems absure. So just imagine what he's come up with in the meantime.

If he does things right, he can once again be seen as a great all time legend of rock, and not someone from the past, a dinosaur, because Madagascar and The Blues eclipse almost everything else these days.

Incidentally, I see you're a Jahnny Beee fan. I think Something To Believe In is one of the most underrated songs. Shame he can't sing it properly anymore tho.

agrre with you man,madagascar is amazing song.
and lyrics are the deepest lyrics which i ever heard

er....id say about 7 or 8 years.... :hihi:

sorry... i was a bit drunk when i sent that........

 ::)

Please detail any political meaning this song could possibly have.

Martin Luther King quotes do not make a song "political".  

Does anybody else find the quotes, especially the MLK ones, more than a little pretentious?  I dont think Id miss the quotes if they they were omitted from the studio version - In fact, Id probably prefer an epic guitar solo.  

Now buddy, that's a bit of a generalization don't you think?

On this board...I can't actually remember many people at all finding fault with the quotes.

We did a deconstruction over here on the old board, I wish that we still had the thread, it's a very layered song and one of the best I've heard in the last few years.

Not really..it tells a story...its not there because they wnated to do something with samples...its there for a reason and to tell a story. Just because Gnr does stuff doesnt mean its pretentius or self absorbed....but whatever.

Its not exactly "stuff-doing" I find pretentious...its taking those indelible quotes pertaining to something as real and important as civil rights struggles and sampling them for a song that isnt even about that subject (not that it would be much better if it was).  It just doesnt feel right, and comes off as pretentious to me.  I dont care about the other quotes so much, its the MLK ones that give that impression.

The quotes are part of the HTGTH FAQ (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=13;action=display;threadid=4226).



/jarmo

So if the song was directly talking about civil rights it would be ok? It has an indirect meaning. The song has many interpretations and thats why its awesome. It could be applied to ones life or to gnrs situation....thats why the quotes work and tell a story....

I absolutely agree Booker. I still love the song though.  :-[

Guess you didnt read my post?



I didnt say anything about the lyrics or the song itself, which are both great.  Its the use of MLK quotes which, story or not, come off as pretentious.  Not a big deal - I dont have any moral obkections to it or anything, just an observation.

Yeah... this one is very real. He seems to care about every second of music on Chinese Democracy.

The song is good. Not great IMHO.

I like the MLK quotes though.   :peace:

Those don't come cheap, as the MLK family makes people pay dearly for any of his work.

The post in the other madagascar thread just kinda made it dawn on me - he had to get permission to use them from MLK's family... even had to pay for the right to use 'em.  So, I'm thinking if anyone is gonna be the judge of what is 'beneath' using them - it's gotta be his family.  They must have had to find it appropriate.  Its not like we hear quotes from MLK's speeches in sneaker adverstisements.  

Not that that precludes whether anyone else might find them to be too 'sacred'.

These r both prolly my two faviourite gnr songs...i love madagascar its amazing

 :confused:  How can anyone not like MLK quotes?  Are they insane???  And yes, I remember watching a 60 Minutes piece on the MLK family demanding royalties from all of the entertainment industry for using likeness, images, and quotations.  I can't say that I blame them.  

Maddy rocks, and MLK's quotes are awesome.

i disagree, it HAD a potential to become big

I disagree.  This is supposed to be Rock and Roll and IMO those quotes are gay.  Just Ilike think thoat shit at the end of Breakdown is gay.  Adding a little quote , ala Civil War, is fine.  But to do a 1 minute piecing together of various quotes makes the song weaker, not stronger.

the song would be brilliant if he didn't have the quotes.  I haven't listened to the song more than 15-20 times because of those quotes.  Definately the weakest of all the post Slash songs except silkworms.  

That's just my opinion.  Give me 10 OMGs or CDs and leave the damn gimmicks out of it.

-TyRod-

p.s.  I think that anyone that thinks Axl is slaving day in and day out to perfect this album is nuts.  My bet is that he goes long streatches without even touching it.  How else do you explain the crazy length of time it has taken him?  I just hop ethat Maddy and The Blues are hte two worst sonmgs on the album.  They better be for the amountof time this is taking.

Says who?  GN'R were a rock n roll band.  GN'R now are just....well....who knows...we've heard about 6 songs and none of them would fit into the same genre and none of them would be classed as rock n roll...

well good for you then

Good point.  Let me rephrase.

I want GNR to be a Rock & Roll band.  I want GNR to be GNR.  I don't want anything too electronic or synthisized.  I don't want anything over-produced.  I want AFD for 2004.  I want something that is felt and not learned.

That is just me.  So from that perspective, my opinion stands as previously stated.

-TyRod-

yeah, you said it right, its 2004 now

oops sorry used illusions i was aiming at all gnr fans that dont like the quotes not all gnr fans in general

my fault i shouldve clarified that better!

my mistake! : ok:

its just my opinion, thats all

i want 1989 gnr, is that so bad?

i hate electronic mucis, is that so bad?

just my opinion, not anyone elses

I agree 100% its not who is saying the quotes, its what is being said.

That is funny because most people I gave the song madagascar to said they thought the middle part with all the quotes was cool.
Just because you think its stupid does not mean others do too.

i admit when i first heard this song i didnt like the quotes cause i didnt understand them

now i realize they tell a story and have meaning i think they are fucking brilliant

the last thing i want is afd 2004

one of the things about vr is to me they dont sound like theyve evolved any

i love the new gnr cause it doesnt sound like anything ive ever heard and i love that

i want some musical evolution i want some growth i want a sound i havent really heard b4

the quotes are a great start

telling a story by piecing together tons of quotes from movies speeches etc is amazing

once again dont refer to the quotes as MLK quotes,

MLK quotes are the most famous but there are more quotes from other sources not just mlk

my favs are actually the micheal j fox quotes

And that is why I stated numerous times that that is just MY opinion.  I say "I disagree.  This is supposed to be Rock and Roll and IMO those quotes are gay. "  Read the whole post please.

I think those quotes are fucking gay!!!!!!!!!!!  Just my OPINION.  

I agree with you D.

   
   
Well, it's not. You want the old band, then you can pull out AFD and listen to it. If you want 1989 GNR, then you may as well not even bother to buy CD if it's ever released. Sorry that they are not the old band.

   
   
To answer your question, no. But what is, is that you are the one on this board (GNR) and complaining that you don't like their style of music.


Sorry that it's too "gay" for you. Maybe you could form better opinions and express them differently if your vocabulary wasn't limited to "it's gay."

i fuckin love the end of breakdown i think its fuckin awesome

our sole hero in his sole mobile! that line is fuckin awesome how he sings that


all of it is awesome!

Well I thought the topic was open for discussion, since D started a thread entitled "madagascar is the most ingenius yet misunderstood gnr song".  I wasn't complaining, just stating opinion.

Those quotes are gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  (Sorry about not expressing myself in a manner suitable to you).

-TyRod

VR is not even like old gnr.
VR is going backwards musically while Axls is progressing.

maddy is awsome, i thought when i first heard it that it was gonna have some long solo's n' keep riding like Coma, the quotes blew me away, i just wasnt expecting it,  IM GONNA TELL YOU A STORY...n' i went what the fuck, this is cool.


i understand its your opinion TyRod...but i think its a gay opinion, veeery gay :confused:

thats just IMHO

Let's not turn this into another GN'R versus VR thread.  We've had enough of those.  Anyway, how can anyone say that VR isn't progressing?  This is their first album so where are they progressing from?   If they still sound exactly the same on their third album, then we can say that they aren't progressing.

Please, direct all comments about that question to the VR section.   ;)

Who mentioned VR?  This thread has nothing to do with VR.  No one has even mentioned VR inthis thread, so your post is a little misplaced I think.

And Clintron, a person's opinion is just an opinion.  To call someone's opinion gay is pretty unimaginative .... kinda like those fucking gay quotes in maddy. :)

-TyRod-

same here....Thats why its cool, its something different and creative yet it works....As long as every song is different but work cd will be fine. They dont need every song to have samples or quotes but if 1 or 2 do then i have no problem with it at all.....

maddy is such a great fukin song..particularly the rio version..gives me chills

sweet...
 i just downloaded an unofficial film clip of MADDY on kazaa, has anyone seen it, its pretty fuckin' cool. I dont know where it is recorded from but on it i could hear more kryboards n' little things here n' there.
but its gay so lets just forget about it :hihi:

They are gay? I never heard any homosexual references in those quotes. Perhaps I misunderstood the song?

Sorry that the song/quotes are too complicated for your tiny little mind.


How are VR going backwards?

And Axls what is progressing? ::) I know that Axl isn't. If he releases something, then we'll talk. As for now, he's not going anywhere.

God, it's bad enough that you go to the VR board for attention, but what does VR have to do with this topic?

VR is not rock n roll like old gnr, like some of you want Axl to be.
My point is no one is complaining that VR does not sound like AFD so why are people complaining the songs from axl we have heard thus far are not rock n roll enough?

VR's musical progression is backed up by the audience they're now reaching getting airplay on formats Axl has never sniffed, and likely never will sniff.

Maddy and The Blues sound like UYI b sides, to me at least.

Very dated...

^^

keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.
you really think that if madagascar was  offically released it would not get air play?  ::)

How is maddy dated? Name one song on the radio now or in the last 4-10 years that sounds like it? There is nothing.

The thing is, once axl puts a single out for Cd its going to be everywhere on the radio

Maybe on "classic rock" or "real rock", no chance on modern rock.  KROQ and station like it won't touch it.


Exactly.  These type songs haven't got any significant airplay on anything but classic rock or real rock stations since 1992-3.

It's a typical power ballad, so anything GNR has done in the past along those lines or Aerosmith for that matter comes to mind.



Not everywhere.

As much as the GNR brand name helps, it has little cred in the modern rock world.

As I've stated before, VR wouldn't have any chance either if they'd chosen Bach, but whaddya know, they get Weiland and
all over KROQ, playing the Weenie Roast and the Rolling Rock Fest...

Again, perception is reality.

Chinese democracy would be played on modern rock stations.
And to be honest even if modern rock does not touch  gnr, who really cares, those stations are big into stuff like nickel back, puddle of mudd and linken park.

As for madagascar, the song is very modern with classic elements.
That is very new for this day and age in music.  Its different and does not sound like anything else.  And nothing in the 90s was like madagascar either.

But we wont know until axl puts out the album.

IMO Chinese Democracy should get a chance at modern rock outlets, but it won't.  It's not just the music anymore, it's the perception.  

Example, let's say "Slither" was recorded by Aerosmith, do you think modern rock would touch it?  Absolutely not.

As for "who really cares", here's a few:  

Record labels
MTV
Concert promotors
Young listeners
Program directors
DJ's

Just a few...

I wouldn't discount the ballads.  Lots of people love a good ballad...not just girls!  I've gotten some cds just because I loved the ballad type song I heard on the radio and wanted to hear more from the artist.  

falcon i dont know how u came to two conclusions

1. how is madagascar a power ballad?

by definition its not, maddy has no big guitar solo and its not a power ballad not even close


2. what evidence do u have that kroq and modern rock wont embrace gnr?

i hate to break it to u but if chinese democracy is ever released their first single will receive massive amounts of airplay from radio everywhere

and please dont give me the "oh my god" argument not doing well on modern rock radio
oh my god is nothing to compare what chinese democracy is going to sound like on, if u wanna really get technical oh my god wasnt a gnr song but a axl solo song

just look at the list of players, how many of those guys are in gnr? exactly!

time will tell but i dont think anyone can say that GNR wont get played on certain formats especially when we havent heard anything

it comes down to this

if the songs fit into modern rock format,  if they are great they will be played, simple as that!

Well as for your list.
MTV is going to play the new gnr and that is a fact. Why else do you think they let Gnr headline the VMAs a few  years ago.
Young listenrs listen to gnr, case and point look at the sales of the GHs album. The day it  came out I saw quite a few kids under 20 buying the album.

As for record labels, DJs and concert promoters.
As axl and tommy has said, this album is a melting pot, and there are a lot of different kind of songs on here, some pop, some hard like afd and some new style like cd and riyadh.  I could see a song like the blues being played on a pop station, cd and riyadh would be played on modern rock stations and then the rock stations would play everything since they are gnr.

Also here in boston two of the biggest rock stations WAAF and WBCN both are rock stations. WBCN used to play modern rock  but have now changed to playing bands like gnr, aerosmith, zepplin, vh and ac dc again.

I know you dont think gnr will be played on modern rock stations but they will be if the album is good

I agree, i got the powder finger album for my happiness (a ballad) and then found out the rest of the album was really good too.

I live in the Boston area too.  Both of those stations will definately play nuGNR.  They both play oldGNR all the time as it is now.  And I can't turn WBCN on lately without hearing Slither.  It gets played about 8 times every 12 hours.  They will give nuGNR as much or more play than VR.  I would say that both of those station play a mix of modern rock and classic rock.  BTW, we are lucky in this part of the country, if you like R&R, to have two of the best station for that genre.  JMO.

-TyRod-  

I started listening to WBCN more now because they are playing older stuff again.
I wonder why they made the change away from just nu metal/modern rock

Probably beacuse they were getting killed by WAAF in the afternoons and evenings (non-Stern time).  I'm not sure of that, but its my best guess.

-TyRod-

  I'm sorry, but wanting AFD 2004 is pretty sad.  It would be like a music fan in 1970 wanting the Beatles to make music like I Wanna Hold Your Hand again.  It aint gonna happen, and we really shouldn't want that to happen.  Music is art, and art evolves.

  The Blues and Maddy are 2 of the best songs I've heard by any band in the last 10 years.   :drool:  

Axl4Prez2004

Evolving doesn't have to mean changing style...

in fact, evolving could mean just making new riffs... because new riffs are new... and evolving is newness.

Fact is, some people arent interested in the new style of music that Axl has gone with... it aint the same as Guns N' Roses.  It ain't even the same genre... None of Axl's songs so far are rock songs... CD is NOT a rock song in the normal sense.  It's a very basic alt. rock song with no ground in Guns N' Roses.  Personally I don't like it at all, but maybe it's to evolved for me :D

Does evolved mean simple to you?  Coz all of Axl's new songs are 4 chord ditties with very little involved in them musically....  (yep, I am serious... and I play instruments so I know I am right).

Oh well

Look at the beatles from their first album to stg peppers.
Axl always wanted every album he makes to be different from the last, there is nothing wrong with that and shows growth.  As for all axls new songs being 4 chord ditties I guess you are not listening to the same songs as the rest of us because I hear a lot more than just four chords.  

Just take the blues for example, that is a classic blues type song, and I hear a lot more than 4 chords.  Another song, riyadh, you really think that song only has 4 chords? ::)

I don't know how you can say a song like madagascar is not progressing, just listen to all that is going on in that song.

I think you need to go  back to music class.

The song is obviously supposed to be a deep song that conveys a message, and it succeeds on so many levels. The lyrics are heart-wrenching, the music is chill-bump-inducing, and the section with the quotes and solo is something akin to magic. It's a shame that a lot of people see it as just a bunch of jumbled sound clips from movies, but I think it will definitely become imbeded over a long time. Most amazing song ever, IMO.

I understand why some feel so close to Maddy, it obviously touches some kind of chord with the listener who digs the "heart on your sleave" type of lyrical content.

Nothing wrong with that...

That said, to portray it in any kind of musical evolution is downright  absurd.  

I swear on a stack of Sex Pistols records I knew exactly
what was coming next the first time I heard the song.  It is an absolute formula power ballad, from the organ intro to the synth laden background noise to the weeping guitar.

I know, I know, the quotes tell a story, yadda yadda..

I'm baffled that more haven't stressed their discomfort with the MLK interlude.  I mean for the love of God, trivializing MLK quotes with movie lines is borderline offensive, no matter what story is told.  Isn't there also a redux of the Civil War intro somewhere in there? Recycling your previous work is hardly an evolution.  At least plagiarizing someone else can be considered a product of influence, paying an homage if you will....

One more point, progression can not in any way, shape or form be measured in a way that's defined by "there's alot going on in that song".  That's just not a very analytical way to characterize anything, let alone the thought of perceived musical evolution.

Again, I understand why some do enjoy the tune, the same folks who love NR and Don't Cry are probably drawn to Maddy as well.  Neither of those 2 tunes ahead of their time in 1991 by any stretch, both closer to Elton John. As for the ladder, it's closer to...well...Elton John.  

13 years later.  

About the original topic... i cant make out any of the Madagascar quotes, even when i adjust the equalizer to speech mode. Can someone post what the quotes are in the song? In the exact order, so me and other fans can make out this mysterious message Axl is trying to say. If the qoutes do add up to some kind of long sentence that make sense, that would be interesting, but i cant detect any of the words in the background.

I'm gonna tell you a story
(FBI Agent Monk (portrayed by Badja Djola), Chapter 35-A Razor Sharp
Confession-1:40:06; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)


Stand up for righteousness!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

What?
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Stand up for justice!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

What?
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Stand up for truth!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

How can a person grow up with all this around them?
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19;
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

You got to call on that something
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Where does it come from?
(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does
it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988;
written by Chris Gerolmo)

That can make a way out of no way
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

All this hatred?
(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does
it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988;
written by Chris Gerolmo)

What we've got here is..
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Fear!
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19;
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

That power that can make a way out of now no way
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Failure to communicate
(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke,
1967; written by Donn Pearce)

I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we
do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than
we even know..
(Private Eriksson (portrayed by Michael J. Fox), Casualties of War,
1989; written by Daniel Lang)

Sometimes...
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Hatred isn't somethin' you're born with
(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives
the Vital Information-- 1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by
Chris Gerolmo)

I feel discouraged
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

It gets taught
(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives
the Vital Information-1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by
Chris Gerolmo)

Sometimes I feel discouraged
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

I felt this fear
(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19
Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone,
no never alone!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

Let's get something straight, alright?
(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward
and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written
by Chris Gerolmo)

Promised never to leave me!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

This whole thing was fucked up
(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward
and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written
by Chris Gerolmo)

Never to leave me alone!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered
at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27
August 1967)

All men betray. All lose heart!
(The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce (portrayed by Ian Bannen),
speaking to his son, Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce in a scene concerning
the betrayal Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce committed toward William
Wallace; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:13:57; Braveheart, 1995; written by
Randall Wallace)

I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe
(Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce, (portrayed by Angus McFadyen) responding
to his father (The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce)'s nonchalant
attitude toward betrayal; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:14:02; Braveheart,
1995; written by Randall Wallace)

Black men and white men
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

Together at the table of brotherhood!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

I have a dream
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)

Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty!! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!
(Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote
speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August
1963; written by Julian Bond)


Samples transcribed by chindem

falcon u have made it clear in every thread that slower ballad type songs arent your cup of tea, i can understand someone who doesnt like that sorta style not digging maddy but to look at the progression from dont cry to maddy is quite remarkable in my opinion, madagascar sounds like nothing thats already been out and thats where axl wins over VR


4 months ago when we learned that VR were putting out a cd we all had opinions

and most people said the same thing i said

VR will put out a strong rock n roll record, good album nothing groundbreaking or new whereas axl will put out something classic and will be around 20 years from now


we were dead on the money with the VR prediction

CD remains to be seen

but i love the fact axl is being ambition

it would be stupid for him to try and make an AFD type record when the original creators of that arent around

this is a new band new style and its gonna kick as much ass as afd just on a different level and in a different way

Here it is with out the places they are from.


I'm gonna tell you a story

Stand up for righteousness!
What?
Stand up for justice!
What?
Stand up for truth
You got to call on that something

Where does it come from?
That can make a way out of no way
All this hatred?
What we've got here is..
Fear!
That power that can make a way out of now no way
Failure to communicate
I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll!
Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we
do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than
we even know..
 Sometimes...
Hatred isn't somethin' you're born with
I feel discouraged
It gets taught
Sometimes I feel discouraged
I felt this fear
He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone,
no never alone!
Let's get something straight, alright?
Promised never to leave me!
This whole thing was fucked up
Never to leave me alone!
 All men betray. All lose heart!
I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe
Black men and white men
Together at the table of brotherhood!
I have a dream
Free at last! Free at last!

Thx that is interesting...i dont see an obvious connection yet. Ill listen a couple more times and let this sink in.

axl is an amazing twisted sick genius

read those fuckin quotes like dave so greatly printed

anyone tell me those arent fuckin amazing

and how someone in their mind thought to do something like that is just unbelievable and i cant put into words how creative and a genius u would have to be to figure something like that out

cmon, everyone, that is so powerful and the way he did it so ingenius

please for once everyone give axl some mad love and props for that

even the haters have to recognize the genius and power of that

reading that fuckin truly moved me


promise never to leave u

holy shit!

No problem D, that's your opinion.  

However, my feelings toward to genre hardly cloud my thought concerning any musical progression.  I'm not into hair metal either, but I'm objective enough to know Bon Jovi is higher on the food chain than Winger.  

Just curious, in your opinion, what separates Maddy from NR or Don't Cry?

The quotes are not an acceptable answer, musically, what separates it?


I never mentioned VR...

i absolutely agree with this. Though i do like the song A LOT, i think a lot of the quotes are cheesy and self-important (in the respect that the influence of Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement should not be trivialized in any song like that). i certainly don't expect many people to agree with this though.  :hihi:

Living colour used MLK new clips in one of their songs years ago along with JKF, so was that wrong too?

D, it moved me too, but in a way that i am sort of embarassed about.  :hihi: Sort of similar to when i watch a really cheesy movie and it makes me cry and i wouldn't admit to people that i liked it because it suggests that i have taste that has seriously not evolved.
But Axl is a genuis man, and i give him props, but not for that.

The song was "Cult of Personality", and if I remember correctly,
they caught some flack for it, it hardly went by un-noticed.  

The Living Color analogy further proves my point, how can something they did 15 years ago (MLK quotes) be considered any progression musically for Maddy in 2004?  

It can't.

It wasn't considered ground breaking then, it's sure as hell not now.

Axl did not do what living colour did, axl took a bunch of quotes and tied them together to make  a story, big difference

I didn't like the quotes at all to begin with.  But, now they've grown on me and are just part of the song.  My question to badgirl is...why would you care if people think that you don't have "evolved" tastes?  Music, movies, art...it's not like there are objective criteria for judging these kinds of things.  It's subjective and that's what is so great about it.  I wouldn't want everyone in the world to like exactly what I liked.  To each his/her own.  I love a good cheesy movie.  Whether it makes me cry or not.   ;)

sure, i hear what you are saying, and subjectivity is wonderful, but i personally think that there are more objective criterias of taste. I think that certain people have more evolved, like i mentioned, preferences in art, music, literature, etc.. i think a lot of it has to do with intelligence, drive and exposure. i personally think i have absolutely terrible taste in music. i know nothing about musical theory, have little exposure to different types of music (which accounts for my preference for the simpler sounds) and all around like uncomplicated works. So, a lot of things i like i would  not really shout from the rootops.  :hihi:
But certainly everyone is free to like what they will, but i personally wish i knew more about, well, a lot.

I totally understand what you are saying.  There are lots of things I'd like to know more about, too.  If I could absorb it by osmosis 'cause I'm basically too lazy to do it any other way.  But, I'm to a point in my life where I don't feel like making excuses for my tastes.  If people want to look down on me because of my taste in ENTERTAINMENT...well, then...fuck 'em.  

whats cheesy about thoseheartfelt quotes?

what people arent allowed to be depressed and sad and arent allow to express their feelings? whats cheesy about that?

i find it very moving








maddy is differnet than dont cry, i didnt mention november rain because it reminds me alot of november rain without the solos


but dont cry's lyrics arent anywhere as metaphoric and deep as madagascar

lyrically on the original dont cry the lyrics are kinda shit and u can tell axl wrote them at an early age

now however the alt version lyrics are wonderful

madagascar has evolved from november rain and dont cry just the longing and sadness in his voice

i mean he makes u feel his pain in maddy like he doesnt do in any song but estranged and the blues

i can really relate to and feel his sense of loss in maddy

plus the lyrics are so deep u can analyze them in your own special way

my meaning of madagascar and every one else would probably have different versions of interpretation

plus the quotes u have to use the quotes

i mean think about it, how much time and effort alone was put into making a whole bunch of different lines tell a story

that shows alone that axl is being very delicate with CD and no wonder its takin so much time

I was listening to Madagascar and then for some reason I just checked the film quotes and asking my self what does this all mean you know war, about colour and freedom and justice and democracy of course what do you think the messages in the song and taking resonability as well just wondering you know when you just randomly think of these things. I'd like to hear what the board member think the message from the film quotes and Martin Lurther King quotes as well adds up 2

I think the quotes point to the freedom and peace of mankind and fighting to keep it.  The context and in the types of movies the quotes are from (for me) fits this.  

You have Martin Luther King with his 'I Have A Dream' speech which was freedom for blacks from segragation (sp? lazy fucker, couldn't be bothered to spell check myself) and the chance to live as equals with whites and other races.  

Then you have the movies. Mississippi Burning (about a black fathers torment of his young daughter being raped and murdered and knowing there will be no justice for her in that 'white' courtroom, who then takes the law into his own hands by killing those involved.) Cool Hand Luke (A movie about an inmate seeking freedom). Seven (This is where the peace comes in. A man killing each for the seven deadly sins. A line in the movie at the end, Morgan Freemans character says something like "I once said the world is a great place that is worth saving, I believe in the last part." The line in the song also fits: "How can a person grow up with all this around them?")  Casualties of War (Vietnam war, 'nuff said), Braveheart (I think)(William Wallace fought for the freedom of his fellow country man from the (then of course) tyrrinacel (SP?) English 'rulers') .

This is what I feel the song is about (like I said, what I feel, prolly wrong). Flame away if you wish, I won't respond (which will make ya look kinda silly  :P ). I am actually interested what others think the song is about.

Cheers

Scree

Ok, I'm a GN'R fan and a guitar player and Slash is my hero. So naturally I followed him more than Axl, with all the talk about the amazing new songs I downloaded two so far. Chinese Democracy and Madagascar.

Chinese Democracy-I like it a lot. Its by no means as timeless as say Jungle or YCBM(or whatever your favourite GN'R heavier song is).

Madagascar- On first listen I thought "What the fuck is this utter crap?" Dont flame me I'm just trying to start a healthy debate. The more I listen to it the more I can see all the different textures etc. But still this isn't worthy of waiting so many years and worshipping sum1 who otherwise has effectivly not been around or done anything recently. This song is very different from Axl's other stuff, but it just doesnt do it for me like Axl of the the original GN'R does.

I am certain Axl can produce better songs than Madagascar, I am sorry to all u Axl-ites but i just think its a terrible song. I havent yet heard silk worms or the blues but i do want to so i can judge hius current new stuff more. I dont know Madagascar just doesnt do it for me :(

I like Mad at nascar, to me it's along the lines of a November Rain or Estranged. I do hope CD will have more rockers on it, but I wouldn't mind seeing it there too. Plus, all we've heard are live versions. Wait until you hear a finished cut and then decide. : ok:

Just download The Blues.

Madagascar is the 2nd best song from the new GN'R, it's in 2nd place to The Blues, which hold's the No.1 spot  : ok:

I can understand some people may not like Madagascar Because of one thing: the rythm box instead of real drums. I think it's a huge mistake for this song. Madagascar doesn't sound the best it can. They should use real drums and a different tempo. If I were Axl, I wouldn't use a rythm box. However the keyboard intro+ the middle with speachs sound great.
An advice: download "the blues", especially the RIO 2001 version, the best one ever of that song. This is the best new gn'r song IMO.

At first madagascar was aright; a year later it was real good and now it's amazing.
I have all the soundboard version, but i downloaded a rough copy from japan, and I heard great guitar/other details i couldn't hear before. I'll try to record the whole song and release it before axl does so you can see where I'm coming from.

Shaun is correct. ?The Blues is #1, closely followed by Maddy. ?I love both these songs.
I disagree with Nesquick on which Blues version is best. ?I know there's a big contingent here at HTGTH that favors the faster paced Rio version...but I love the slower version, especially Boston (clearest in my eyes) and Pittsburgh (nice and emotional). ?It reminds me of that quote Axl had for Patience. ?Correct me if I'm wrong, I think it was Izzy who came to the group with the music, and then Axl said, "we fucked it up the ass," meaning they took it and slowed it down. ?Voila! ?Presto! ?Now it's a timeless classic. ? :peace:

Madagascar was song that quickly grew on me when I first heard I was like its ok but when I listened to better quality versions of the songs I thought it was just amazing. I'd have to say The Blues is my fav new GN'R track I think the rio version is best because the faster tempo although the 2002 version is just as good but I prefer Rio.

i fuckin love the madagascar played in japan  :beer: vma and england is good too  :)

IMHO, the best version of "The Blues" is the one from their first Vegas concert, at the House of Blues. It's more
up tempo than other versions.   : ok:

though i do like madagascar, i do see where the poster is coming from.  i just went through a phase of liking mostly appetite stuff, the real hard, which is definitely the opposite of madagascar.  i agree that i'd rather see stuff like appetite, but i don't think we will.  the blues is solid, as is chinese democracy, but neither gets to the energy level of appetite.

Seems to me that many who consider them more "Slash-fans" than "Axl-fans" might be less likely to appreciate a song like Madagascar.  But I suppose some of those types were like "what the fuck is this utter crap?" when November Rain and Estranged were first released.

Bottom line, hold off final judgement on any of the new songs until you've heard the studio versions.

Just my two cents.

Madagascar is one of the best songs I've ever heard.  The BEST material yet out of the new GN'R.  You probably got the 2001 Rio version where Axl is running around and you can hear it in the song.  Anyone have a link to download a soundboard version?  If so, please let me know!!!!

I'll already did it: http://www.14yearsofsilence.com/madagascar(mix-final-128k).mp3 (should I put this mp3 in every post?  ;D)
Those great guitar/other details are the Finck's guitar and Pittman synth orchestra? 'Cause you can hear it on Tacoma and Idaho soundboard boots. Also, you can hear Buckethead better on the Pittsburgh soundboard.  : ok:

When I first saw the thread, I was searching for people saying "lock, ban" or something like that. I'm glad it didn't happen (yet).

Actually Madagascar is more mainstream in my opinion that's why the rockers don't like it that much. The intro is very good, I first heard it from the VMAs. I think if Axl releases it, he should put a radio-version without the Luther king speech like that medley GN'R did in the VMAs.
Have you ever noticed that Madagascar solo is different in each live?

I've found an interesting gnr site with many downloads, search there for Madagascar and other stuff.
http://gnr.nu/Default.aspx?tabid=27

What?? I love Maddie!! It is an awsome song. Best lyrics I have heard in a long time!!

madagascar is amazing.. i love that song.. at first i didnt like it much either.. i was just like "eh.. whatever" but more i listened to it, more stuff i heard that just made me go "wow.. that's deep"

you should check out the blues.. to me, the blues is if Estranged and November Rain had a child, it'd be the Blues..

Download Rhiad - it's quality.

Hell yeah! I love this song! Download the video here:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=16036.0

:beer: :headbanger:

wow, someone who actually doesn't like madagascar either...
that's the worst song (IN MY OPINION) that is considered new...just doesn't do a damn thing for me...welcome to the minority :P

haha!
i read a fan comment a couple weeks ago that they don't like Estranged.. one of the worse.. etc.  :o
after that...  well - nothing surprises me!  :-X
so... there ya go!  diffren't strokes...
;)

thanks, that was good live? : ok:

Maddie?? are we talking about a hillary duff song? or an Axl song? :confused:

Voodoochild thanks for the link pretty good stuff.

so far I have known just of two people than dont like it you and this other guy, its like the people who dont like Estranged, its just ESTRANGE to say the less :confused:

I'm a Madagascar freak i think RIHAD and Madagascar are the best new songs so far! :peace:

whats the best version of Rihad? Can anyone post a link to it?

The Osaka mix is the best version. I have the mp3 but you can download the video I made with this audio here:
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=16036.0  : ok:

i still cant get over the fact that not many people around here like silk worms....i think the song is great. i put it ahead of rhiad. Rhiad kicks ass musically i want stsudiossssssssssss

silk worms is actually a really good, pissed of aggresive rocker, like it :headbanger:

i love Silkworms! Its a really great song! And i DO want to have it on CD!

and after listening to axl's wttj and lald-scream... imagine how cool the scream at the end would be?  :o

I?m another minority ?it?s a good song for sure.
Like Illogical Phallus said, Even on boots it sounds good so studio version must be amazing. I think it?s OK to discuss the songs as live ones.

On the contrary, Oh my god, Chinese democracy, Riyadh are my cups.
Blues and Madagascar are concretely complete fine pieces that have high potentials to top the charts. 
Yet, They don?t give me a gooseflesh or stair my blood unlike the other 3.

I would really love to know how the hell Rhiad (or however its spelled) is in a soundboard version. This is my favourite along with Maddie and The Blues, but we only have poor versions... Yet, it sounds really amazing and full of cool details.
Really hope for the release of the studio version. Don't care if it's gonna be on the CD tracklist, I would be happy if it's gonna be only a b-side.  :beer:

Hi, Voodoochild, Isn't that Osaka one a soundboard version?

No, it's a mix with the regular bootleg (an excelent record) and the Axl's Ear Monitor Mix source. It's pretty good, but it's not recorded direct from the soundboard (with the stereo pan and the CD quality).  :-[

I love Madagscar, I might even take it (slightly) over The Blues, however it's very close. Those two are my fav new GNR songs, i've always been more a fan of slower, deep rocl songs though. Out of all the diff versions of Maddy I have heard (about 6 diff live versions) my fav is the one from Albany, NYC '02. I've never seen the song in mp3 from that show but I have the DVD and it is an amazing performance, Axl doesn't hit any notes wrong and it has all the newer effects (that weren't present in the Rio version from '01). This is another new GNR song (along with The Blues) that makes the hairs stand up on my neck  : ok: I think the samples work really well and are relevent to the songs meaning (at least what I interpret the meaning of the song to be).

About the heavier new GNR songs:
Def download 'Rhiad', that and CD are great rock songs, however i'm not feelin 'Silkworms' at all  :no:
I would like a decent quality mp3 of Rhiad actually, I think the one I have is from House of Blues and is quite poor quality. I know someone posted a video but i'm on dial up so that could take a while. How many times was this song performed live anyway? Was it performed on any of the '02 shows??

Ok, for everyone who wants the better version of Rhiad, I uploaded the Osaka Mix (can't remember the guy who made it, but here's my cheers for this excellent job!): just right click HERE (http://d14.yousendit.com/E/1AFQ4V2VAOI983IK5Q1JQ20B8C/Rhiad_and_the_Bedouins%20(Osaka%20Mix).mp3).
If it doesn't work, try to left click HERE (http://s14.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1AFQ4V2VAOI983IK5Q1JQ20B8C).
The song was perfomed in Las Vegas 2001 and Osaka, Tokyo, Pukkelpop, Docklands and Detroit in 2002.  :smoking:

Thanks for the info and uploading the song for us Voodoo Child, appreciated  : ok:
This is much better than the version I had.

Okay we have heard the  few "new" songs from gnr.  Axl I believe said one time that he was not going to let the big guns out, until the cd is in our hands.  Can you imagine, if he wasn't talking out of his ass, which I dont think, in no way a intelligent guy like Axl would do.  Come on people, Maddy is the most epic, emotional song we have heard since the illusions.  Grunge didn't give us  hope just a big fuck you.  Sorry a little rant for what I think deluded everything rock and distorted a view in rock and roll and laid the ground work for sloppy untalented wankers who cried and moaned, played three cords and never took a bath.  Anyways like I was saying we haven't heard anything like this, and more exciting than that we havent even heard it from the studio.  This song is gorgeous, even though it probably wont even be a single, I could see this playing in non stop rotation.  This song if done right could be the 'stairway to heaven' of this generation.  I mean at times it sounds a little vintage, a little zeppelinish.  Anyways I hope they do add real percussion, I mean you can't beat the realy thing,as far as I am concerned maybe because I am a drummer.  Oh and another thing I hope they leave the voices on the end part, this brings so much power and depth, I believe this one is going to be huge, along with the "big guns".    :drool:  :peace:

I think Madagascar is about the old band members.  It has clips of Civil War's "What we have here is Failure to communicate."  And Axl goes on saying "bless them for they may grow old".  Stuff like that makes me think in some way he's thinking of the old band members and trying not to hold to much against them.  Even though in some of the newer concerts he seems pretty pissed about his past "friends".

i LOVE silkworms.. its such a badass song.. i love yelling out the lyrics whenever i can.. "LISTEN MOTHER FUCKERS TO THE SONG THAT SHOULD BE HEARD!!!"

Dont waste your time with Silk worms.. its not worth it... its pure SHIT... Its CRAP CRAP CRAP.. The worst shit ever to come under the GnR name..

The Blues is ok.. Its another sappy piano ballad, Piano ballads are not that hard to write i dont think that we need another one.. Is like "poor mans november rain"  November Rain is awsome, Estranged is awsome.. Breakdown is great.. The blues is just not all that everyone says it is..


Madacascar is just ok also..

in my opinion "Oh My God" is the best new song from Axl.. Im still waiting for the Big Guns..

madagascar is better than breakdown.

 :rofl:


I feel that way too.? Someone posted in one of the past Madagascar threads - and I agree - that it could actually be considered a continuation of or sequel to "Estranged"

Well I jumped into the river
Too many times to make it home
I'm out here on my own, an drifting all alone
If it doesn't show give it time
To read between the lines
'Cause I see the storm getting closer
And the waves they get so high
Seems everything We've ever known's here
Why must it drift away and die

then...

I won't be told anymore
that I been brought down in this storm
and left so far out from the shore
thant I can't find my way back
(my way) anymore

------------

something that I always notice when the fans are speaking about the songs... and the various 'favorites' that are expressed
Axl with the new Guns N' Roses has succeeded in doing something that the original GN'R band's songs have done/do...
that is to appeal to such a wide variety of personal tastes - there is 'something for everyone' even in the small spectrum of 5 or 6 songs!
That's awesome.? I expect as much from the 'melting pot' album that Axl has described that is to be "Chinese Democracy"
To hear every range of human emotion expressed from anger and resentment and the journey through acceptance of change and overcoming the odds triumphantly - a journey of becoming free.

That is a theme that I have picked up on in "The Blues" and "Chinese Democracy" and "Ryhiad" and "Oh My God" and "Madagascar" and yes... even in"Silkworms"? ;)

not to get too philosophical here (jeez don't even know if i spelled "'philosophical" correctly! hehe)...
but in life that is, to me, the greatest challenge - to truly become "free"....? ?something that is only accomplished by seeing the light/ the truth, etc.

In the Blues we hear "What I thought was true before were lies I couldn't see... what I thought was beautiful was only memories"
In Madagascar - "oooh and free them so that they may know - that its never too late"
"for the many times what seemed like a memory - I searched and found the ways you used to lure me in... oh... I found the way - of why it had to be... mired in denial and so afraid"? (I realixe the lyrics may be off a word or two but the intented meaning is not lost).
Its all about becoming free from realizing the truth - from recognizing the reality of things, people, and situations in our lives
whether the lyric is "freed of ball and chain" or "freed of all the pain"...? the meaning is there very clearly.

Axl has been through a journey.? As many of us go through in life.
He is at a point where he wants to share what he's learned.
In Silkworms... "listen motherfuckers to this song that should be heard"...
the aggresive lyrics are of someone who is frustated (what can I do..?) with someone in their lives that won't own up to what he sees as 'the truth'
"You know that it?s true
All I have I ask of you I'll be dammed If it?s not true"

Oh My God - again the anger and frustration of what is obscured and destroyed by lies
the whole song repeats this over and over...

It's not as you're thinking
Or as you've imagined
To live in the shade
Of beliefs that were fashioned
To leave you in slavery
And drain out your soul
But what can i do when
There's so many liars
That crawl through your veins
Like millions of spiders --------------------? ? listen, read...? lies enslave you - seeing the truth sets you free
That seek out their victims
And who is the wiser
Watch out
Gotcha -

Oh my God, I can't deny this
I've been taught just to kill and fight this
to? bury it deeper
where nobody can find it
like nobody wanted to know............................. wanted to know what?? the truth


.............................. he speaks out against those that would conceal or hide the truth = that would leave you in slavery


ooh, if it opens your eyes

this is repeated throughout the song - the truth opens your eyes... it makes you free
without this we can not 'heal'


well... haa! enough.
Axl is an amazing lyricist/composer...

though a wide variety of forms of music he expresses things that we can all relate to

had to add...

consider also "Rhyiad"

he speaks of frustration and salvation....
from lies

edit:? while I'm at it...? Chinese Democracy is about the struggle to become free also ;)

many feels oh my god is about traumas too,? :peace:
come back an haunt you- confused - bury it deeper where nobody can't find it and yeah,

-the refrences to the past in newgnr -songs, gotta love the package? : ok:

I agree. Although he probably doesnt want to have anything to do with them, I think he has moved on and probably doesnt wish bad upon them. As for the rants, I think he truly gets upset becuase in his eyes {whether he is right or wrong} they have lied to the press and fans. So when discussing old gnr stuff he gets heated.

Excellent point. I was thinking about that the other day. We have a handful of songs and each song is someone elses' #1,etc.

Thats why Axl is great and I have all the confidence in the world with him. Hereconizes the fact that he has a large fanbase and he tries to please everyone with different types of songs. And at the same time, if the song calls for it, he is able to add quality and meanigful lyrics to it.

The lyrics on CD are going to be absolutely priceless. And then throw in all the screams, tones and everything else Axl does....FUGEDABOUDIT....if the band was able to mesh and capture a distinct sound then.....its over....

They're all fucking gr8. but in order of wikud songs, here's mine;

1) THE BLUES
2) MADAGASCAR
3) RHIAD AND BEDOUINS
4) SILKWORMS
5) CHINESE DEMOCRACY

funny how we all have our own personal taste, mine would be

1- madagascar
2-rhiad and the bedouins
3-the blues
4-chidem
5-silkworms

silk worms (4 the potential)
madagascar
oh my god
the blues
rhiad\chinese democracy shares

to continue this:

1) madagascar
2) chinese democrazy
3) the blues
4) rhiad
5) silkworms

We are GN'R fans. What else can you expect?  :hihi:
That?s one of the true charms of GNR fandom. Like band, like fandom. Multistructured all the way.

Here's mine.
1) RHIAD AND BEDOUINS / CHINESE DEMOCRACY
3) SILKWORMS /  MADAGASCAR
5) THE BLUES

Mine

The Blues - I love the Lyrics
Madagascar
Chinese democracy
OMG
Silkworms
R/B

Now for the OFFICIAL list :

1) Madagascar
2) The Blues
3) Chinese Democracy
4) Rhiad & The Bedouins
5) Oh My God
6) Silkworms

 : ok:

I feel that way too.? Someone posted in one of the past Madagascar threads - and I agree - that it could actually be considered a continuation of or sequel to "Estranged"

Or a prequel, "part 4 of the trilogy

Where's Rhiad?? ???
Anyways, here's my list NOW (sometimes it changes a bit ;D):

1)Rhiad/The Blues
2)Madagascar
3)Oh my God
4) Chinese Democracy
5) Silkworms (the Las Vegas one is much better)

Eva, your post about the freedom was brilliant. I agree 100%. Axl indeed wanted to please everyone with some really great songs different from each other. To me is like "taste them, those are only a small part of a whole new sound".

thank you for the compliment :)

and less we forget:  "Freedom Through Musical Integrity"....  trying to remember however where this phrase came from?

1) The Blues  (sounds epic, grand etc.. and at around 4-5mins, is more economical regarding time)
2) Chinese Democracy (this would be a perfect first song fro CD)
3)Madagascar (pretty nice song, I think it lags a little though and sounds a little dated, not the timeless sound we expect of Guns)
4)Oh my god (nice ideas, but it sounds under-developed and a murky, muddy production doesnt help much. Lends weight to the thory of it being a demo.)
5)Silkworms (pretty poor IMO. Sounds like something that was written in the soundcheck before the gig. ie a jam)
6)Rhiad (hard to form a real impression here as the version I have is extremley poor quality. However, what I can make out sounds awful - especially the vocal melody which just sounds like incoherent shouting)

"so far I have known just of two people than dont like it you and this other guy, its like the people who dont like Estranged, its just ESTRANGE to say the less"

see I am unable to see a similarity between Estranged and Madagascar (I think that's what you are saying)
Estranged is a beautiful song...
Madagascar is a whiny song...no depth...victum like lament with a "poor me tinge"

But there's definitely enough peeps out there who dig it so...there ya go...whatever floats your boat.

Rocks like a motherf***er! (I know that this is stone age for everyone else).
I downloaded the boston soundboard recording and nearly wet meself? :peace: :peace: :peace:

Madagascar is fanastic very deep lyrics and meaning well to me!

I agree about the lyrics ... I had read about Axl's voice being shot so I looked up the Mp3s of the 2002 concerts ... and well if that's what it sounds like when you lose your voice I bet Weiland is praying for  athroat condition.
Abolutely AMAZING! : ok:

I agree with yah I love madagascar it never gets boring too me!! It got a mystic feel to it!! I cant wait to hear the studio version, but who knows maybe by the time the cd comes out, madagascar might not even be on it. But i think this song means alot to Axl cause he played the small tidbit of it at the vmas that year plus the lyrics seem to have relevace to the old band great song
where can i got downloads from sounboards from that tour? if anyone could let me know id be happy

I love the guitars on it. Richard does a great job on it (especially at the VMA).

I know Im in the minority, but I find the song a tad overly melodramatic, and I find some of the lead guitar out of place. That said its a good song, Id just like to see it become less bloated and a little bassier....both bass more prominent and guitars less treble. A bit too long as well.

Still a good song, dont get me wrong.

Totally on point in all observations, not too mention extremely predictable.   

As much as I dig the potential of IRS and Chinese Democracy, this song represents everything musically
disturbing about the direction of the new band.

Madagascar is a masterpiece. One of most awesome song in years.

You know whats weird for me.

I love the guitar work on Tommies album, great unpredictable and raw....but a lot of the stuff Ive heard from Nu GNR sounds much less inspired, more treble based more 80's and less raw.

Like the opening lead in Oh my god....awful....and sections of madagascar, IRS ?and the blues.
disturbing about the direction of the new band. So far I havent heard one riff that is vaguely memorable some great vocal melody but thats it.

I really liked the riff on the song Chinese Democracy, especially when the Darkness did it on "i Believe In A Thing Called Love".?

I haven't been able to listen to a clean enough version of IRS to make any objective judgements on the music, Axl sounds good on it though which has to be considered good news.?

With none of the players in the band having much creative experience in their own right, i think the music is the wild card in the whole CD dynamic.? I fully believe Axl will deliver vocally.

Maddy r0x0rs!


 :nervous:

the CD riff and the Darkness riff are way different, the opening chord might be the same but that can be said for millions of songs.

To me Madagascar is groundbreaking. There are so many things that are blended in together to make that song that no one would normally blend together. Lets break this down:

theres organ, orchastral arrangements, a hip-hop beat that turns into a beat kind of like the one in at the end of STH by Zeppelin, the quotes, incredible lyrics, soulful singing by Axl (I've never heard Axl sing like this anywhere in the old GN'R songs), the guitar work (it might sound simple but it fits very well with the song and to me it makes it that much more emotional).

No one has ever combined these types of things together. That is how this song alone shows that Axl has grown as an artist from the old GN'R days.

Madagascar rules!!!! It just moves me in a way I can even describe, from the beat, the singing, the lyrics, the orchastral arrangements, and the quotes....its just incredible.

P.S. - I agree with D about how much of a genius Axl is to have taken all these quotes that had nothing to do with each other, bring them together to make them tell a story. I would rather hear something like this than a predictable guitar solo. Its something very different from everything else and it makes it reach another level.

Axl isn't progressing as much as he is simply following trends. That Madagascar drum loop is soooo early-mid 90s.... actually Prince has an unreleased song (Dance With The Devil) from '89 or earlier with a drum loop that sounds almost exactly like Madagascar's. Download the song from any p2p program to see for yourself.

Nothing in the song is groundbreaking; quotes have been used before, synthesized horn section is reminiscent older hip hop songs that used them.

To reiterate,
Axl wanted to move in a new musical direction... to do what others were doing. Download Dance With The Devil, you'll see the similarity between the drums.

Oh yeah, 'Gascar is a pretty good song.

You already have 1989 GN'R...Appetite for Destruction and Lies.

It strikes me as ironic that while so many consider Axl to be dillussional and unrealistic, many of those are the same ones who hope that the exact sound and feel of a decade and a half a go will somehow be recaptured.

Is it bad? ?No, just utterly impossible.

Considering the fact that a band like the Sex Pistol's produced the most important record in your life Falcon, it really shouldn't surprise anybody that you would have no appreciation for a song like "Madagascar."  After all, with all due respect, we're talking about the same guy that has forever loathed "November Rain" and "Estranged!"  For the record, whether it's progressive or not, I really don't think "Madagascar" could be termed a ballad. 

And if I may ask, how or why is recording movie lines with Martin Luther King quotes offensive?   ???   

Well then it's a 'power ballad'.

As for the quotes, I think they're almost cheesy. It just is. Cheesy like this (http://americawestandasone.com/video.html). It's like asking 'Why don't you think the Backstreet Boys are cool'? But if anyone enjoys it, more power to you.

Madagascar is a good song, but IMO, i think it could be better. ?

I think it needs another verse (the first couple of verses in axl's words are great) and I agree with the minority and think the quotes make the song a bit bloated and too self righteous. ?

Also, the quotes make this song almost impossible to listen to while at a GNR concert (you can't make them out and the music is just background noise during them). ?I went twice in 02 and people were heading for beers during what amounts to a bad drum solo.

Cut the quotes and have axl "tell the story".

Let's not split hairs here.

Maybe it's a matter of opinion but a ballad (or power ballad) is a song like "Don't Cry," "November Rain," or "The Blues."

I don't think "Madagascar" is the same thing. ?Nor "Civil War" or "Estranged" for that matter.

You are missing the point. Yes nothing in the song is ground breaking but what makes madagascar ground breaking is no one took all those things and put them into one song and make it sound good.

...one reason why I've always seen the new band as more of a studio-based outfit than any type of live one. ?I tend to think that what Axl is recording now will "translate" better through a stereo than on stage.

Madagascar and Stairway to heaven have the same bass riff. If you listen to an average mp3 copy of Madagascar at say Rock In Rio 3 and compare it to a studio copy of Stairway the bass riff is identical..also the whole flow of both songs are both very similar as well. Ah well, I love and cherish both songs :yes:

Simply put, the MLK speech is probably one of the most, if not the most important orations in US history.
I find the pretention of its inclusion offensive and a more than a bit self important.

For cryin' out loud Falcon, you're starting to sound like Doppelganger.  (That's NOT a good thing by the way)

I'll grant you that Martin Luther King's speech is one of the most important in our nation's history.  Nevertheless, King wasn't the Messiah and what he said isn't sacred scripture.

If anything, Axl including his speech in "Madagascar" could be considered a tribute to King rather than an exercise in self-indulgence.

Madagascar is a pretty good song but i've never understood how peeps can claim it's one of the best. I would be alarmed if this was the general calibre we have in store for CD and hope Axls not full of wind by claiming it's not one of the "big guns".

The comparison to November Rain, I can see - pleasant enough but clunky in it's over-earnestness, a little self-important.

As for the quotes, hardly a new concept sampling various movies and speeches. And in principle it is a bit rich to use MLK speech fragments in the context of a rock song - kind of devalues their poignancy

However, The Blues is another thing altogether and has classy written all over it IMO. Im just not feeling Madagascar the way others are

I listen to Madagascar more than any other song.  One of the top 5 best GN'R songs ever, and it isn't even studio quality?!  Hard telling how good it's going to sound when its produced properly.  I'm too used to the 2001 Rio version....ma nava mada madagascar...lol I know every word on that damn track and love every second of it.  PERFECT piece of art Axl has created...good choice for the 2002 VMA perfomance as well... : ok:

madagascar is gr8

Madagascar is one of the greatest GNR songs ever.


Whoever thinks the MLK quotes suck is an idiot.

I have no idea who the hell Doppleganger is..


Could be I guess, given the singers penchant for the overblown, I doubt it.

This comment by jimmythegent sums it up very well:
"And in principle it is a bit rich to use MLK speech fragments in the context of a rock song - kind of devalues their poignancy"

A bit rich indeed..

Nah, I like Filter's version of it better on "Hey Man, Nice Shot".

Amazing song, Its extremely fucking uplifting.

It also makes a statement regarding Axl's resilliancy  :peace:

Doppelganger is none other than our good buddy SLCPUNK.

I haven't listened to much Nu-GN'R in a while, but last night I put on RIR3, and I still think Madagascar is up there with Axl's best work. Such an epic, powerful song, which I didn't really get at first listen.

I honestly think that if Chinese Democracy isn't coming out, Axl really should at least release an EP of studio versions of Madagascar, The Blues and CD. I know I'd buy it! : ok:

I know I am in a minority, but I love "Silk Worms," cool as shit. Madagascar is allready a GN'R classic, as far as I am concerned.

Makes two of us. The interlude in the middle is great. As is the intro. Just needs a little work  : ok:

Madagascar is alright - I loved the scaled back version at RIR3, but I felt that the newer 02 version just had too many effects on it... And I get the feeling that we're going to get a less-impressive version similar to that one. Axl also dramatically changed his vocal melodies for the 02 version, something I didn't care for.

As for the rest of the songs:

Rhiad rocks. A killer rave up, and if they worked a bit on song's structure, it'd be a great way to start a new album.

Oh My God is great, unlikely to make the cut, but a super aggressive and excellent tune. I hope it shows up, either in its original or a remixed format with Fortus doing a solo.

The Blues is genius. Better than NR or Estranged, in my opinion... Sacriledge, I know - But I feel that the song packs more of an emotional punch in a much shorter amount of time, as far as piano ballads go, and doesn't sound over-the-top like November Rain.

The other 2 new songs, CD and Silkworms, I'm pretty indifferent toward.

1. IRS !!!! This song kick ass.
2. The Blues
3. Madagascar
4. Chinese Democracy
5. Rhiad
6
7
8
-
-
-
101. Silkworms. (It just sucks)

I almost agree, just put Rhiad down with silkworms and you have "the ultimate truth" : ok:

1 )The blues (amazing)
2) IRS (energetic)
3) Rhiad (guys, it's a great tune!)
4) Madagascar (epic)
5) Chinese Democracy (average)
.
.
.
Silkworms (that's not GN'R)

You'll hear "an amazing scream " from the great AXL on IRS.
Better and harder than the one he did on WTTJ.

The one he did on the demo is already impressive! If he has to re-recorded it, maybe it will be even better by using a vibrato in his voice. It's a vocal technic used by the opera singers. It sounds THE BEST for that kind of long scream.?But it's not easy without beeing out of key. It needs lots of takes in studio.

I've listened to it (Maddy) a few time and it's probably the best of the new stuff I've heard, that along with the Blues.  Of course IMO, that ain't saying much.  Comparing those songs to say AFD or the Illusion albums, they would be filler at best on the Illusion albums and wouldn't make AFD.

As for Rhiad, Silkworms and Oh My God, hate it, can't listen to it, sucks balls, sounds like jumbled noise.  Chi Dem is a little better than sucking balls.

After hearing those songs a few times, I fully understand why Axl hasn't released the album yet.  Because if the rest of the new material he's come up with sounds anything like the 6 songs off it I've heard since original GnR was disbanded, CD will be one of the worst rock(?) albums of all time and complete and utter waiste of time and money.

Madagasar and the blues would easily make AFD, They are better than anything goes, my michelle, think about you, you're crazy, just to name a few.? Madagascar, the blues, IRS are all better than 90% of the crap they play on the radio right now.

They be better in your opiniom, but they wouldn't have fit on AFD - totally different sound

I absolutely love The Blues, and Madagascar is great, the other ones I like but they're not incredible.

I actually have a little problem with madagascar: The hip-Hop beats.Why not using real drums? It would sound much better.

Some of my friends said GNR never was gonna release "great music" again. But when i played Madagascar for them, they was blown away! We listen to it in every party! And they are beginning to ask me alot of question on the new Line up and stuff.. thats great!? Finally got them interested..

nytunz...that's great to hear.  I've had the same reaction from my buddies.  Madagascar definitely gets the interest going.  It's tough enough nowadays to even get people to give Axl a chance.  He hasn't just burned bridges...he's nuked them.  :hihi:

Seriously, Madagascar has the most "studio-like" feel of all the new songs, and I think this is why it's usually received as the best upon initial hear.  I'm so damn interested to see which songs I'll like best after hearing the studio versions.  I honestly feel The Blues and IRS will be tops, followed closely by Maddy.  We'll see!!!  I hope.  :'(

IRS could have a huge impact as a Rocker. Even the poor quality demo kicks serious ass!

madagascar, Chinese Democracy, and Rhiad are my favorites. I can't honestly remember the blues (or enjoying it for that matter). i have to listen to silkworms again too.

From what some guy said (can't remember who) he heard the album its almost complete and there are 4 rockers and 8 that suck.

The new stuff isnt the same but i like it

Id agree with you on being better than Anything Goes, but beyond that your wrongfully overlooking alot of classic songs.


That I can agree with hands down, modern radio sucks beyond sucking.


Ultimately, it's like Jimmy said though..

I love "Madagascar" and "The Blues".  I also enjoyed "Chinese Democracy".  But am I the only one that wasn't that impressed w/ "I.R.S."  Possibly a good song but can't really give it two thumbs up  : ok:  : ok: without hearing a better recording.  This is Guns N Roses. A great band not just a good one.

I think Maddy is a really good song--not better than the earlier stuff (hey Dave, you paying attention?), but still a solid, catchy tune. The Blues is good  also, but I really prefer the more  rock n' roll stuff as opposed  to ballads, so Chinese  Democracy is ok. But not close to previous rockers. I would  prefer more pure rockers. And as I have expressed many times before, the techno/industrial  shit  (Rhiad, Silkworms, even OMG) is not worth listening to. Axl are you listening to what your fans  are  telling you?

If Axl wants to have an impressive record, he doesn't need Rhiad or Silkworms. Even Chinese Democracy seems to lack. It's not a filler but it would fit better if the album was just after the illusions.

I like madagascar but I also feel if this was the direction CD was headed or is headed and it had this type of calibur songs on it I would say the wait wasn't worth it... On the other hand if the album had come out 3 years after it was first mentioned then I would have a change of heart..

I was just thinking, can someone tell me how the song changed from when it was first played in rio to the 2002 tour? thanks,

did they add guitar solos or anything like that?

I thought at the MTV awards it seemed a little more up tempo-starting with Dizzy's playing at the beginning-that could be me, though-Axl singing "Free the ball, the chain we built together" Before the middle of the song, and I think Fortus was a huge difference-he is awsome on Maddy-he's just way better than Paul Huge, nothing against Paul.

Did it change?

Oh well, I never noticed that.

i liek the rio and mtv versions the best....

I expect the vocals on Madagascar on the album to be chilling

I could be wrong about the lyrics-also hearing it live in concert, you hear the drum loop they use a lot better than watching it on tv-it will be interesting to hear the studio version of it.

Really the only differences are more strings/synths, and Richard's guitars, which have been awesome...

How about the complete solo overhaul? Rio's solo is completely different from the 2002 boots.

thanks evolution, that is one of the things ive been wondering about.. so the solo did get changed....

Let's say from Rio to Boston 02.
More strings/Synths as it's been pointed out already,and Axl's voice.
Fortus rips those guitars in there better than Paul ever did as well.

It did yeah. Personally i much prefer Rio's solo. Has more "direction" if that makes sense. Sometimes when i listen to the 2002 solo i feel like it's just wandering. I guess Axl wanted the quotes to appear more prominent, so he asked for a less noticeable solo or something.

I know what you mean with the solo. At Rio, Bucket's solo was soulful, but in '02, it almost sounded like he was just hitting random notes sometimes...

Those quotes are kind of ridiculous, they take away from the song.

I found the one he did in Leeds to be very, very beautiful....

That's what I want to hear the most, I think I'll die when I hear the final version of Madagascar.

I found the one he did in Leeds to be very, very beautiful....

He did play some good solos, but on the whole, I found them to be very shallow and random. There's something special about his Rio solo...

IMO they are the essence of the song. What makes it stand out. I respect the fact that they probably aren't for everyone though.

Maybe it's different in every boot, the Cleveland show is the one I've heard, maybe it's much better at other events.

Can anyone identify all the sound clips in Madagascar?  I recognize a few.  For instance, there's the guy from "Cool Hand Luke" (not sure of the actor--same clip was used in Civil War).  I also here James Earl Jones, but I'm not sure what movie it's from.  Obviously there are a bunch of bites from MLK's "I Have A Dream" speech.  Also, I'm not possative, but I'm pretty sure I heard Willam DeFoe from "Platoon".


Can anyone else figure the rest out or verify these?



Danny

I can get you the list... I transcribed it somewhere... Willem Dafoe and Gene Hackman, though, are heard in this clip. It's taken from "Mississippi Burning." There is also a clip from "Braveheart," Michael J. Fox from "Casualties of War," and a few others... I'll look for the list.

/Kevin

I'm gonna tell you a story

(FBI Agent Monk (portrayed by Badja Djola), Chapter 35-A Razor Sharp Confession-1:40:06; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

What?

(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce)

What?

(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce)

How can a person grow up with all this around them?

(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19; Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)


Where does it come from?

(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

All this hatred?

(FBI Agent Alan Ward (portrayed by Willem Dafoe), Chapter 6-"where does it come from, all this hatred?"-00:20:25; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

What we've got here is..

(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Fear!

(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19; Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)


Failure to communicate

(Road Prison 36 Captain (portrayed by Strother Martin), Cool Hand Luke, 1967; written by Donn Pearce)

Everybody's acting like we can do anything and it don't matter what we do. Maybe we gotta be extra careful because maybe it matters more than we even know..

(Private Eriksson (portrayed by Michael J. Fox), Casualties of War, 1989; written by Daniel Lang)

Hatred isn't somethin' you're born with

(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives the Vital Information-- 1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

It gets taught

(Mrs. Pell (portrayed by Frances McDormand); Chapter 29-Mrs. Pell Gives the Vital Information-1:29:22; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

I felt this fear

(Detective William Somerset (portrayed by Morgan Freeman), Chapter 19 Se7en, 1995; written by Andrew Kevin Walker)

Let's get something straight, alright?

(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

This whole thing was fucked up

(Agent Rupert Anderson (portrayed by Gene Hackman), Chapter 27-- Ward and Anderson's Frustration -1:24:58; Mississippi Burning, 1988; written by Chris Gerolmo)

All men betray. All lose heart!

(The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce (portrayed by Ian Bannen), speaking to his son, Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce in a scene concerning the betrayal Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce committed toward William Wallace; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:13:57; Braveheart, 1995; written by Randall Wallace)

I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe

(Robert the 17th Earl of Bruce, (portrayed by Angus McFadyen) responding to his father (The Leper / Robert the 16th Earl of Bruce)'s nonchalant attitude toward betrayal; Chapter 15-Lands of Death-2:14:02; Braveheart, 1995; written by Randall Wallace)

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Quotes Below:

Stand up for righteousness! Stand up for justice! Stand up for truth! You got to call on that something That can make a way out of no way That power that can make a way out of now no way I tell ya I seen the lightning...I've heard the thunder roll! Sometimes... I feel discouraged Sometimes I feel discouraged He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone, no never alone! Promised never to leave me! Never to leave me alone!

above from Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Why Jesus Called A Man A Fool, (Delivered at Mount Pisgah Missionary Baptist Church, Chicago, Illinois, on 27 August 1967)

Black men and white men Together at the table of brotherhood! I have a dream Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty!! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!

above quotes from: Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., I Have A Dream, (Delivered as the keynote speech at the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom on 28 August 1963; written by Julian Bond)

That's from http://gunsnroses.us/cd/madagascar.html

Thanks, Jim  : ok:

Nobody seems to know this thing exists: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=4226.msg237406#msg237406

 :nervous:



/jarmo

Oh, I knew it was there all right.  :smoking:



(......... :nervous:)

Holly cockballs.  Thanks, guys.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I don't know if it has anything to do with the vicoden i started taking today, but that shit just cracked me up!!!


That part gives me goosebumps.
Fucking brilliant.  : ok:

whats this song about anyways ?

I always thought it was about Axl wiching Slash & Duff well on their future endevors.


But who knows.

if you want to take the song very literally, and it could be true, it seems that the song is about axel striving to still be gnr after gnr was done, and to fight to continue to make new music regardless of what everyone tells him, or how much time has past.

'i want be told anymore,
that ive been brought down in this storm,
and left so far out from the shore,
that i cant find my way back anymore'

"always thought it was about Axl wiching Slash & Duff well on their future endevors."/

i never really thought about that before, but that would make sense of the other part of the chorus:

'if we ever find it soon,
that we have the strength to choose
to free the ball and chain
we hold together'

you could interpret that as him talking about them still trying to make music independantly with out the stigma of gnr hanging over them.

other then that, i think every other song is about stephanie seymour, or maybe stephanie seymour and the band, basically it seems like axel thinks everyones done him wrong

Does anyone think the Movie Quotes and strange sequence in the middle of Madagascar will be removed for the album?
Just about everyone who has ever heard this song thinks it to be a great, creepy, power-ballad type a la Zeppelin or something,
and just about everyone looks confused when the movie quotes & MLK start speaking.

I actually hope they keep it in at this point, only because I'm so damn used to it -

At first I thought Madagascar was their best song. Since the leaks I have to say Maddy is a strong filler.

we have only heard the live version, wait for the studio.

It's a great song, the best of the new songs before the recent leaks. Still strong, definitely not filler in any way. I still love it.

I like most of the new songs but I can't stand Madagascar,I don't know why,I hope the studio version will be better than the live version  :peace:

How about more like a weak epic? Definately not filler material, it's better than that. :)

i love the song, it reminds me of later zeppelin

maddy is one of the best new songs to be heard.its intro is so mezmarizing,the movie quotes are not different to what gnr have done in the past.look at civil war,kohd and some others i cant think of.i say keep them.  :peace:

Madagsacar is one of the Axls deepiest songs!!1
I like it a lot,especialy rio version
Just try to understand song,i think it's axl biography(1993-2001) song

I still think it's better than the recent leaks.

The thing witht his song is it hasnt been studio leaked yet so it could have changed greatly from what you guys last herd of it ..... But i do agree its one of his deepest songs but not one of the best of the new CD  :no:

The lyrics are good.. If it is re mastered.. it can be better than all of the other leaks.. but the organ like sound isnt helping much..

i love this song, can't wait to hear a studio version (if there will be one) although not leaked id prefer to pay for it along with the rest of the cd album :)
this song seems so great especially the solo which i love

did anyone esle think that madagascar sounded heavier this time around.. than the version played on the 02 tour?  or was it just me?  twat was def much heavier than the demo

yes it def was heavier along with twat and better

for me madagascar is excellent song,very deep text,very good solos and very good point

i wrote that back in January 30, 2005  :hihi:

Better and IRS, T.W.A.T have all overtaken Madagascar. The Blues is still up there though with da best  :beer:

OK, we've discussed how Madagascar may have been written during the Illusion tour.  Well, we can put that rumor to rest.  I was re-visiting Axlette's page, the one with pictures of her visit to Axl's house, and it was back in '99.  Well, Axl let her listen to a song that they just wrote, titled Madagascar.  I wonder how that version sounded?

Man I just checked out her page and it seems so familiar.  I must have checked it out back in the day.  How did she get a personal invite to Axl's?

Wasn't due to her fan site?

Lyrically I love Madagascar. Plus the song has a vibe that is totally original from anything out there now, I Pray to God that this is on the album that end solo with the audio from MLK and various movies gives me goose bumps!!!

I think Madagascar has great potential....only if played with guitars!! if the main beat/rhythem/intro were guitar based and not looped/machine/keyboards/computer crap, it would be much better.

Madagascar's problem is that it has no HUMAN SOUL.  The rhythem has no human touch, it's computer/loop generated.  Like a robot...it's just there...ahhh I know what i'm tryin to say: no PERSONALITY!!!

Madagascar Rio 3 has plenty of soul, its magical. And Axl introduces and sings it beautifully.

Maadagascar from rio is amazing

I think Madagscar is the best song so far from the new album. I really like it a lot! It will be a huge nr. 1 if they bring it out!!!

Also, I like the blues, but I hate the end of that song...i do not know...it's like they didn't know how to end and it's just like they fuck it always up there. It stops so suddenly.

So, IMO Madagascar: TOPSONG 1st CLASS!!!!!!!!

where can I find this page from "axlette" who visited axl?

ha I found it but it is strange - why did axl invite her ?

Hi, guys upto today i just accepted that the song was called the same thing as a country. So i tried to find out things about the country that make it stand out and make it applicable to the story of madagascar. I didnt find anything interesting, however i found this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_%28ship%29

A ship called madagascar, it traded with China and India, Its a legend whether it happened or not but apparently the crew gave up on the captain and killed him and ran off with gold.

Just read the article, anyway i havent a clue why the songs called madagascar do you?

p.s. on tour in 2006 dunno which concert before playing it, axl says look it up on a map. Dunno if that makes my theory crap.  :peace:

i think madagsacar is some lonely/isolated island, that may have sumit 2 do wif it

I'm not sure there is a reason.

The song is pretty deep with the political and racial issues particularly in the clips in the middle, and its one of those songs that conspiracy theorists could twist into being almost anything.

Madagascar the country seems pretty nondescript, although I'm not sure if there is anything about its history that Axl picked up on.

cockaroaches

Thats a good theory.

I personally think that it has to do with the island of Madagascar, and how it is 'isolated' from Africa, kind of how Axl was isolated...with the world...

ok thanks guys,
Yeah the lonely island fits, hmm it confuses me, i think i understand the song, as you say very deep but i dont understand why the racial comments in the middle? All the rest seems to be about leaving him alone and finding strength.

If Madagascar is well known for one thing that is its fauna and especially reptiles.

And being the place where monkeys are grown and used for research.

I'd think it'd be more known of it's general relativity to Africa.

Madagascar is an island that - geographically speaking - drifted off the continent of Africa a long, long time ago. Hence the flora and fauna on it are very unique and different from what you'd find on the continent of Africa.
Think Axl and the rest of (old) Gn'R. Then read the samples part (here (http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/releases/chinese-democracy/madagascar.html)). Questions?

(I think Axl said somewhere that he did feel the old band breaking apart, and that Estranged kind of was expressing that. He was referring to "I've seen the storm was getting closer". Read Madagascar: "I've seen the lightning flash. I've heard the thunder roll."
The whole song is so full of hints i could write a fucking book about it...)

Isn't Estranged based on his relationship with Erin Everly.

Also why would there be lyrics in Estranged about the band breaking up when at the time (1990) they were still pretty much still very close. At the time Axl did a interview with Kurt Loder where he said the band had to figure out how to work together again and how to reinvent their friendship.

Estranged is based on the breakup with Erin. But Axl later said that it can be applied to a lot of other stuff, friendships, that was breaking up. Not necessarily only his with Erin.
I think in 1990 the band was close to breaking up. Read the interviews, how hard it was to get the Illusions out? When Axl bought the rights to the Gn'R name? Izzy left in 1991... I'm not saying that back in the day he wrote it ABOUT Gn'R. He said something like maybe in the back of his head he was thinking about Gn'R when he wrote it, and now in the aftermath you can all see it. I'm saying Madagascar is about old Gn'R breaking up.

Madagascar separated from the main continent of Africa and developed with a slightly unique evolution... I kinda guess like Axl's Guns.

The Martin Luther King quotes should probably not be considered in the context they were originally intended. If you listen to the words they go along similar kind of themes as the other samples and lyrics in the song.

'I've seen the lightening flash and thunder role' - I've seen a new way, an evolution if you will. 'I won't be told anymore'

'Sometimes I feel discouraged' - constant criticism in the media, from ex-band members, pressure

'Promise never to leave me' - fans? band members? I dunno.

'Free At Last' - Free from the post UYI rut, the baggage from the name, the ultimately destructive relationship with former band members. 'Free the ball and chains we held together'.


Axl said in Rio he hoped this song would express his sentiments. This wasn't his sentiments to the fans, that was the dedication. It was his sentiments of the time he has been away. He dedicated it to the brilliant crowd that ushered them back in. I always thought the samples in the middle told the story and was slightly disgusted by the complete stupidity of fans who said 'it's just a temp until they get a good guitar solo and some real drums'. The Rock In Rio solo is the second best GN'R solo... shame Buckethead never played it well ever again.

KillKurtzKids: Thanks :) Exactly what I mean. It's not about where the quotes are from... "failure to communicate" is my favorite (and like the ultimate hint if you ask me)

@"Promise to never leave me alone":
think Slash.

the song is so clearly about the old members.
just listen to the samples in the middle of the song
there is your proof right there : ok:

amen.

After reading over the lyrics I always thought The Blues was about the old band.

Maybe they both are, who knows.

the blues i think it is about steph

Yeah maybe, I'd say it;s almost certainly about the old band or probably her.

The Blues would be twice the song without 'street of dreams' and 'stardust on my feet'. Ewww. Still... Madagascar, Better, T.W.A.T... lyrically spot on. Now what are T.W.A.T and Better about? Same again?

Its an island as people have been pointing out. It was also the island that the Nazis were going to relocate all the Jews to before they changed their plans - the rest is history. Cant really say much more about it, God knows why Axl named a song after it!

Jonx

There's already a thread pn
There's already a thread for those songs holmes use the search function!   : ok:  And  that line "stardust on my feet" is one of my favorite lyrics ever.  It makes the song for me.

The reason it is called Madagascar, is because Madagascar broke off of Africa and became it's own island with it's own ecosystem vastly different than that of Africa.

Axl broke off with old GNR, and is now vastly different than anything they are doing




left so far off the shore, that I can't find my way back, my way anymore..

Only Axl himself knows what the lyrics are about but I must say I believe he writes about other stuff going on in his life as well that don't relate to GNR. However, this Madagascar theory makes sense. He questions the old saying that no man is an island I guess.

He must have had some hope of returning to the mainland though. There are thousands of islands out there, say in the Pacific, that are far more remote and cut off than Madagascar.

Do you think he's ever been there btw?

Yeah, I think u nailed it best!  ;) All the samples are racial-related speaches, but I don't think that is why it's used in the song. The old members leaving the band: (You promised NEVER to leave me, NEVER to leave me....)  Now being able to or feeling "free" to express himself and doing the music-scene again with a band that feels right: (Free at last, free at last, thank god allmighty...etc..)

Here's your answer:

"I won't be told anymore
that I've been brought down in this storm
And left so far out from the shore
That I can't find my way back, my way anymore".

so axl is madagascar and the old members are africa?

Hmm i always thought it was steph that promised to never leave him alone, after all they were engaged but yeh it hink the moving island is right so cheers

I don't think it would of had the same effect if Axl had of called the song somethink like "Isle of Wight"  :hihi:

Axl has always been a great poet. He's not just a singer, he's a poet. He always writes about the inside feelings, emotions and problems that he has. It was the same in the Appetite with songs like It's So Easy and Sweet Child O'Mine for example, the same with the Lies, Illusions and it is the same now. He wrote One In A Million when he felt fucked up from people that were stealing and doing drugs. He wrote Garden Of Eden after St. Luis, so it is normal his lyrics now to be about the breaking up with the old guys. It was not easy for him. However, this is the reason Axl's lyrics are so different from other stuff. My opinion though, but look Metallica stuff for example, or Iron Maiden, or Motorhead...I don't say I hate Metallica, not at all - I love them, but come on...I'm not saying Axl is the best, but he is saying what he thinks in a such way that you have to realise the music and to go deep inside it. That's why I love Guns N' Roses so much. 

I've always wanted to ask:
What is the difference between someone who writes lyrics and a poet?
Is it objective?

I read it somewhere, the song first called MAD AT NASCAR.

I think it's a bit more than that.? I think the old band is certainly a factor, but I think Axl's being a bit more broad minded here.? He's not JUST talking about the old band, but the music world in general, and his career.? Sure, the old band is sort of referred to in the song, but it's not JUST about them (unlike CD, I think).

It's Axl talking about how the world has told him he can't be successful without the old band, and maybe even with them.? That he's not relevant anymore and that he's drifted away from the "mainstream" been battered and distracted by the shit storm around him, so that he can't actually create good music, or be productive, anymore.? Madagascar is him railing against that perception, I think.

The metaphor he's using, IMHO, definitely refers to the island.

Madagascar according to the dictionary means something like "Edge of the world", although yes, there is the country although I doubt the song has anything to do with the country.

lol na, Axl was just joking around when he said that. It was on the 02 tour i think in Ohio when he was talking about those pesky seatbelt rules. Madagascar was always the song title

Why not just any island? Well, as I mentioned above, Madagascar broke off Africa. And it's still drifting away, towards the Indian subcontinent.
The Hawaii islands (for example) were never part of the mainland. They erupt in the ocean on top of underwater volcanos. So you can't just take ANY island as a metaphor.
Moreover, i think it's important that Madagascar has a unique ecosystem (i think the Isle of Wright doesn't really, so sorry, no song for you ;) ). Australia is similar in that way (that thing broke off the other land maasses even wayyy before, and they have animals and plants you'll never find in other places on the planet). I guess calling the song "Australia" just would not have made the point clear enough, as there are too many things that could be associated with Australia. For us european/northern-american-influenced people, "Madagascar" has kind of a single association (just read this thread to figure out how many people have had the same thought).

what do you guys think of the sampled voices used in madagascar? i think its pretty coool that axl used martin luther king in the track? what about you lot?

MLK=good...
the rest=bad

I dig the whole song all the way through.....Madagascar is going to be an amzing track to listen to....

Madagascar and TWAT = classics  : ok:

What don't you like about the rest of it?

My personal favorite part is the "Lets get something straight alright? This whole thing is fucked up".

I love that.

All the sample voices work perfectly : I like the way different sources are collaged together to create a narrative theme. To me it's my favourite part of the song and the part of the Hammersmith show I was most looking forward to.

i like

"all men betray, all men lose heart.........I DONT WANNA LOSE HEART!!!!!!"  from Braveheart.

its kinda releveant in the sense i dont know if it is about past members??

im also from scotland so i thinki ts great anyway!!

fuck king eddie!!! ahaha

It's not samples, it's Axl.

Yeah, he's that good.

Axl actually wrote MLK's speeches and it wasn't the A-bomb that stopped WWII, it was Axl Rose's shrill Jungle scream that created the mushroom cloud and forced surrender

LOL, you should start an axlrosefacts.com website....maybe even have a chuck norrris roundhouse kick vs axl's scream pay per view.

Now that would be close to rivaling Norris.

You know what?  That may be the only thing that could rival a chuck norris roundhouse kick to the face.

I love the quotes, and I'm dying to hear a studio version of that song. From the second I heard it, it's been one of my favorite GNR songs period and my favorite new song till I heard TWAT (they're now kinda tied).

I do want to hear more straight out rockers now though... a la IRS and Better (but not so poppy as better)... and I really wanna hear that Sorry track.

I like the way it sounds, but am wondering if these maybe something only in the live versions with video to go with it. The guitar work during the voices sounds great but wondering what it would sound like just as a long solo. But maybe too long.? :smoking:

I'm still surprised they were able to secure/afford the MLK quotes... they, uh, don't just give that out (his family).

This was my first ever new GNR song I heard, and I still love it. I always watch the VMA;s of it.

Probably the best song, though I suppose after 5 years it's more than famillier. Can't wait to hear the studio version.

I find the quotes to come off as bland. The MLK ones are good (although using them after writing OIAM will have media pens scribbling pretty fast) but as a whole to me it doesn't build the tension it goes for. But some people love them, so maybe it'
s me and not the quotes, but Maddy doesn't cut it for me.

The Michael J. Fox line is from the movie Casulities of War.

I really like the samples and mixed in with the solo.  The way it builds up to a crescendo... gives an incredible feeling.

Well there are a lot of chance that my post will be deleted but i have to "impres my sentimence  :rofl:" with that amazing song

for me the best ballad till 2001 was aerosmith song "dream on",but after that madagascar is the best ballad ever "for me ofcourse"

i have never heard deepier song tham it!in that song we can hear all axl rose geniosly,and his energy,life atitude,geniouly text,and axl give the best in that song!!1

maybe some people don't get it,but it is "poem" song,and for sure there weren't songlike maddy in last ten years

i agree with you! I remember when i heard it the first time, it was at RIR 2001, i immediatly thought...this is an instant classic...I never get tired of that song

i agree it is pretty deep. It really sets Axl apart from his contemporaries. fantastic lyrics.

especialy part with solo and geniously talking by martin luter king

Axl you made a monster with this song (man you can fuckin hypnotize with it lol ;D

It's definitely a different song for GN'R to do. It makes a more powerful statement, than any Guns song before it. It has a definitive message.

it's definitelt diferent from every other song in last decade

No offense but, many of you guys need to expand your tastes in music. I won't deny Madagascar is an amazing  song, but the "deepest" in the last 10 years? That is laughable, and before that, Dream On? Come on guys... There is A LOT of music out there.

well everyone is entitled to have opinion... to some it may be deepest and to some it may be nothing... Dream On? I am... I still think My World is the deepest song of the 20th Century  :hihi:

listen to "lucky" from radiohead.... that wil blow you your mind.

It's one of the most beautiful, haunting songs ever. ?

And you know who deserves a lot of the credit? ?CHRIS "MOTHER GOOSE" PITMAN! ?What would that song be without the spoken word montage? ?It'd be good... very, very good actually... but not GREAT.

Hats off to Pitman!

Axl - Buckethead - Pitman - The rest

i love the robin stuff in the that song more than buckethead solo... but ok!

i love the song, i love everything on it...
VMA 2002 was a very sentimental live version of madagascar

God, wasn't that beautiful?   : ok: : ok: : ok:  A real highpoint in Axl's career.  I watch the video of that performance every morning, right after I say the Pledge of Allegiance, and right before taking a shower.

You back Jack?

Personally I'm not a big fan of Maddy. I like the keyboards because they're pretty unique for a rock song and the guitar solo is good, but the lyrics are really melodramatic and repetitive and the movie samples are cheasy.

i think the best madagascar version that axl sang live was in the vmas in 2002...realli gooood!

I agree. its a good tune, but GNR themselves have released better, "deeper" songs (estranged).   I think it kinda misses to be honest.

oh and I hate when people call it "maddy".  sounds so gay.  :peace:

i don't say music are good in last 10yeras
i heard many good songs,and i like many new rock bands
but only i said that mady are very special and very deep for me,i catch this song

the best version of madagascar was played on Thursday September 21st 2006 at The Warfield, San Francisco, CA!!!!! seriously it was sooooo gooooooooooood

Honestly, I'm not a big Madagascar fan at all.  Something about the keyboards that just turns me off.  I'm still holding out for a studio version before I give a final opinion though.  Personally I'm addicted to TWAT (pun intended).

I dont like the first 2 minutes of TWAt,
but I still hope that will be corrected in the real release.

good for you...  and what`s your opinion on madagascar? :hihi:

i love that song. i never cared too much about madagascar or the blues, but hearing madagascar live it blew me away : ok:

Never mind Maddy, I reckon Axl should blast this out until launch day :peace:


GET IN THE RING - Pre -Chinese Democracy Version

Why do you fuck with me when you want me
Why should I answer you when you
Make me hate you too
I sense a smell of bullshit in the air
I can't even understand why the fuck
You even care
And I don't need your conspiracy yeah
Why drag me down in your mystery
The lies you share you don't think I feel it
But I'm gonna deal it back to you in spades
When I'm havin fun you know I'll just conceal it
Cause I know you'd never suss out my game
Oh no
And when you're talkin about its validity
Yeah
I'll be planning to launch 'Democracy
On CD

There you go with your bitchin'
The bullshit Projections
Download speeds and file infection
Misguided quotes in the name of detection
What you do is criticize my intentions
The not so subtle manipulative devices
Just for you I got real surprises
I got an album that is real nice
I'd like to infect your 'puters in a trice.
Domain!

And that goes for all you geeks on the boards
That want to start shit by spreading lies
Instead of things we ain't said
That means you
the member called Darth Vader
PC Mart Magazine
Koto in Japan
Those others that log-in
What you pissed off cause your mother got smaller
tits than you?
Fuck you
And bugger your micro chip

You be rippin off the fuckin leaks
Avoiding  payin your hard earned
Money to rip off the bands
They want to know about
Prying eyes, startin controversy
You've antagonized me
Antagonize me motherfucker
Get in the ring mother fucker
And I'll kick your bitchy little ass
Punk

I don't like you, I just hate you
I'm gonna kick your ass oh yeah. Oh yeah!

You may not like our integrity yeah
We built a world out of anarchy oh yeah!

And in this corner costing 8 millions ???????'s
Chinese Democracy

Get in the ring
Yeah

Yeah this song is dedicated to
All the Guns N' Fuckin Roses
Fans who trawl through all the
internet shit
And to all those opposed...
Hmm...Well

Updated :)

I prefer the 2006 version over the 2001/02 versions. Richard changed a few things on Lead guitar (he takes the Lead on that song) and he just smokes everything Buckethead had ever done before on that tune. It sounds much better with Richard than with Biuckethead. The middle solo is better and the end of the song (he changed the riff) is more melodious.

BTW, Madagascar has always made me think to "Frozen" of Madonna. But I style prefer "Frozen" because there is such a mystic vibe into it, it's incredible.

I was wondering if anyone has an audio track of the quotes from Madagascar without the music?  I know this may be an unusual request, but I thought I would give it a shot.

Try the AFC section.  Someone will probably hook you up.

you want martin luter king speech???

Not just the MLK speech, but the other quotes as well

1. The title, "Madagascar", immediately implies some kind of policital connotation.? Madagascar is an island country off the coast of North Africa that turned socialist after gaining independence from France in 1960.? For 30 years, their economy tanked, illiteracy skyrocketed, and political opposition and expression was restricted.? When the Berlin Wall came down, the soclialist government began a rediculously slow transition, but when troops killed 30 protesters at the presidential palace, the resultant uprising stripped the socialists of power within sixty days.?

The killings and resultant uprising took place in the Fall of 1991, so my theory is that this song was written in that timeframe and is somewhat inspired by the events there.? Rose would have been touring Europe at the time for Use Your Illusion (There was a Wembley concert on 31 August that year) and political pressure/statements regarding communist and socialist governments were common everywhere, including in the creations of songwriters.?


2. The lyrics:


Doesn't sound political at all, but rather very personal and typical of Rose's lyrics.? It also bears connotations and tie-ins to the "Estranged" lyrics and video.?


Both the chorus and this phrase seem very much like statements regarding critics and naysayers who consider Rose a 'has-been' and the band permanently defunct.?


This is also very typical of Rose's post-Appetite lyrics, which very often speak to an ex-wife or ex-girlfriend after a failed relationship.? How the fark does this correlate to national and international politics? 

3. The imagery and samples is where it gets political again:? Stained glass church windows, MLK, "fear", "hatred", "freedom".? The song as a whole is great, powerful stuff - but there's obviously two themes here, in a 'mash-up' of sorts.? Why??


In summary:
From what I've seen and heard of Chinese Democracy so far, it seems like one of the underlying themes of the album is one of conclusion and closure of an epic that begins with "Sweet Child of Mine" and progresses through songs like "November Rain",? "Don't Cry", and "Estranged", before ending on this album with "Better", "The Blues", and "Madagascar".? ?It seems like Rose has chronicled some kind of personal journey of recovery from a failed relationship - my guess would be with Erin Everly, his only marriage.? ?My only theory as to the contrasting themes of Madagascar is that the song is being used to surmise or state the tone of the entire album.? Rose is 'putting to rest' his personal demons and issues, then saying "Fuck all the naysayers, I'm not through yet", then saying "Hey, take a look at this injustice in the world, this is more important than personal change, let's make the world change".?

Thoughts?

Honestly, I never really thought about it.  But this was a really good post.   :beer:

i think it's very wierd that people think everytime axl write a song about a failed realtionship you guys think it has to be about stephanie or erin, don't you guys think he have had other realtionships the past years then those 2?

I interpret Madagascar as a reverse political allegory - using political themes/events as a metaphor for emotions, experiences and feelings that are very personal in nature.

For example, the Braveheart dialogue ("All men betray, all lose heart..." and the "I DON'T WANT TO LOSE HEART!!!" response).  In the movie, that dialogue concerned whether Robert the Bruce had the courage to lead the Scottish rebellion, but it can be applied in an infinite number of ways on a personal level.

Everly was his wife and Seymour his fiance' - why would that be wierd? 

/ZOMG thiz song iz aboot Erin Evrlee I"m 1000% pozitiv yo!!!!111oneone

//Better?

because it's that many years ago, and he has prolly seen women during the years he was out of media or how to say, it isn't wierd that it could be about those 2, but it's wierd that to you guys it must be about someone he devorced 15 years ago or broke up with 13, isn't it pretty possible that for example 7 years ago he had a girlfriend and that didn't work out? why does it always have to do with those 2, even though he loved them very much, don't be so narrowminded and think he has only loved those 2, the wierd part is that you to you gyus it must be about those 2 women

I always felt that  this song was about the breakup of the old band. Like many have written already Madagascar drifted off on it's own sort of like Axl did in the ol' guns line up. He was the one one that stepped out there on his own he was pushing his vision...Izzy fucked off right away when he didn't like it anymore, Slah and Duff was different I think they wanted to work through it but in the end Slash couldn't take it which isolated Axl into the title "the guy responsible for the break up". Duff seems like a great guy but he seems sort of like a yes man. Him and Slash get along great and they both obviously get along great with Matt it seems like (this year in particularly) everyone gets along with Izzy (he wasn't there for the blow-up) all this isolates Axl which I guess is represented in the title "Madagascar"

That's my take on it, I could be totally full of shit

by the way I always thought the second verse was:


Forgive that they teared down my soul (this part nails it for me that it is about the old members)
Bless them that they might grow old
Free them so that they may know
That it's never too late

For the many times that seemed like a memory
I searched and found the ways you used to lure me in
I found the ways,
Oh, why it had to be
Mired in denial and so afraid

If we ever find its true
That we have the strength to choose
I'm free of all the chains  (that's what I undertsand )
We held together

Cheers

Could be about anything, we're not mindreaders...erin everly, the band breaking up, whatever the hell he went through while in seclusion for 10 years....anything

Wasnt the song written on the road during UYI tour?

It could have been about the struggles between the band, but I dont think the break-up.

So, what's up with the images they show on the screens while the song is playing? Isn't it lots of stained glass and during the "quotes" part it's MLK and then back to the stained glass?

Anybody have any theories on why Axl chose that imagery for this song?

i was just listening to madagascar and i think that with quotes and final orchestration that this song will be so powerful and epic

this song has always been one of my favorite new guns song does anyone else share the excitement i have at hearing this song in a final studio version

Yes, and I'm just as excited to ear all the other songs  :yes:

Only 2 months left

You know, we've heard this song for two years (2002, 2006), and I think we've kind of gotten accustomed to it, but I really think the studio cut is really going to knock people socks off.

I think it will be an instant-masterpiece.

whats wrong with me? I actually don't like that song...  :nervous:because of those quotes i guess.

I think what The Legend said is right. Those who have not heard it will have a completely different reaction to those who have. The studio version should be good.

It was exciting 7 years ago or whenever they first started playing it..  At this point it's a joke.

A joke? Jesus christ dude, isn't that overstating it a bit?

to me a joke would be like if a guy, hmm let's call him tommy47, and tommy47 blames axl for everything and can't accept that what he knew as guns n roses back in the day, that they aren't around today, instead we have gotten 2 very cool band out of the first one, they are called guns n roses and velvet revolver but tommy47 can't call the one called guns n roses for guns n roses, no instead he calls them like axl n' boys and the other band called velvet revolver he says they are the real gn'r even though the band themselves have said that they don't wanna sound anything like that old gn'r, that tommy47 can't move on and leave. That to me is a sad sad joke

sad joke, eh? Well, that's new to me! :P


Hmm, why would it be a joke?  :confused:

The concept is a joke?? The bootleg versions?? Me, I'm excited to hear the polished, studio version...I'll judge from there.? That said, though, I really like the song as I've heard it over the years...

i don't get that either...

nor did I.  ???

Anyway, to get this back on topic, I'm excited to hear this one, too.  The only thing I don't like about it is that it uses the Cool Hand Luke audio from Civil War.  Not that it's bad...I just think it's odd to use it in two separate songs.

Yeah, i've always kind of felt that way too.

Madagascar is one of GN'Rs best songs......EVER

^ deffinatly i am so pumped for the final studio version its gonna be epic

I liked Madagascar, The Blues, and Chinese Democracy when they first came out.  Especially The Blues, that was my favorite.  Didn't really care for Silkworms or Rhyiad.  Now though, I prefer the 4 leaks to these 3 songs.  I don't know if it's because they're newer?  That probably has something to do with it.  But yeah, back on subject.  I can't wait to hear any and all of the studio versions of the songs.  TWAT and Madagascar are probably the most complex of the new songs, so those should be real interesting.

Hey
Ive been watching madagascar clips
i must say the 2002 version sounds better , the rasp is over shadowing the tone
i would have to make an observation that the voice for Thr IRS 2006 leak would have been ideal , 50% Rasp
Also it seems in 2002 he sang it with more passion pain frutration i really loved it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6AaRaQGyew&mode=related&search=
Very good performace
it seems the happier with the new band the less sad tone it gets
whats ur opinion
P.s- stop bashing you net losers , got a right to make aan obserbvation , if u dont agree then uve wasted 1 miniute of ur life ranting like a 2$ whore..Sorry i always get shit here -.-

I love the rant disclaimer lol. Anyways, coming from a guy who hasn't been to a live show yet... I think 2002 was better with that song. And I agree with most of that you say about it.

having seen madagascar live at rock am ring, i can honestly say, that it was simply perfect. it was the best song i?ve ever heard and i`ve never been so satisfied by guns n?roses before. axl`s perfect, raspy voice sent me chills down my spine :drool:

you could clearly hear all the pittman and reed effects in the background and it was simply mind blowing.

i can?t compare it to the 2002 version, as i?ve only heard bootlegs of it, but i can?t imagine it sounding better live....

It was always gonna be raspy anyway. Listen to the Boston promo from '02, thats a studio clip and his voice is rapsy in it. The way he sang it in '02 was not true to how it was gonna sound on the record.

                          I always enjoyed the Rock in Rio version of the song personally. With them using speeches by Martin Luther King and others in the middle of the song.

Those speeches are still there.

I'm still with the 1st Rock n'Rio performances of both Madagascar and The Blues. Since these's shows the songs feel slower, and The Blues has had (good) bits removed :-\

I'm looking forward to hearing the studio mixes of both songs, then I can have a proper 'observation' ;D

I dont know if I feel this because of the ''shock'' it produced me, but I still think that the Madagascar version at Rock in Rio III was simply perfect. I loved this years Inland Invasion version, and the little piece of this song at the VMA's was fantastic.

Madagascar is one of the best songs ever written by Guns N' Roses, and it's not even the best of the new tracks (TWAT is even better)

the frontman of our favourite band is a fucking genius, no doubt about it  :love:

dunno why, but i find it the most boring song of the leaks and probably of all gnr songs, not worst but most boring :-\

I could never find it boring - It's an inspirational song, from the lyrics, to the quotes to the solo.

It was the highlight of seeing them live last year for me. Probably my favourite new song.

I think it sounds just as good now.  : ok:

@#$%Funker

I have got bored with Madagascar. Where as The Blues still remains strong, Madagascar feels slow, and to be honest the only section I like  are 'the quotes' with all the guitars going on.

My Favorites Tracks Of MADDY & The Blues Is ERA 2002.

HBK *

The last weeks I listen very often the version from 12/20/2006... It's damn good! Especially the quotes and Richard's solo...  :drool:

Madagascar will always hold a special place in my heart.  A buddy of mine played the first 30 seconds of Madagascar for me over the phone.  I was blown away instantly.  Without a doubt it got me back into GNR strong. 

In '02 Madagascar and The Blues were my favorite in Boston. (I was there live)

My favorite '06 version of Madagascar is Budapest. (I wasn't there live  :no:)  There's something Axl does vocally toward the end of the song that is just f'ing haunting...beautiful indeed.  :beer:

I don't mean to switch gears but since you were mentioning '02 to '06 progressions of songs...no song improved more than Chinese Democracy itself.  It is amazing live, and earns my Most Improved award.   :peace:

I love the song, to be honest when I first heard it in 2001 it really gave me shivers and was the piece of music that made me believe Axl was working on something really special with his Chinese Democracy project.

I still believe the Rio 2001 performance is magical, 2002 was really good but I missed bucketheads dominance in the bridge, the strings were to high in the mix and he was drowned out for the most part.

2006 - Heard it live, heard the bootlegs - its still great but Fortus's solo just doesnt do anything for me, I think it has badly damaged the song taking out bucketheads solo.

As a matter of fact I even think that sometimes it has sounded a downright mess in the middle of the song.

The last performance before christmas was pretty awesome, guitar solo kinda killed the magic though, starts off ok then... I dunno... he wants to lay off the effects a bit and just rip out an amazing solo. I think he is trying to outdo buckethead by trying to make it sound really fancy and technically complex with his pedals, but there is just no soul anymore.

Has anyone else noticed how they have removed Dizzys organ from the part of the song where Axl sings, "forgive them that tear down my soul... etc..etc" There is a slightly different medley going on in there now.
Its absent until the drums and guitars come crashing in again and Axl starts singing, "If we ever find its true..."
The older versions it pretty much carried on in the backround for most of the song, apart from the middle.

Cant wait for the album version, I cant believe its 2007 and I still havnt heard it :'(

I think this song will be one of the great "masterpieces" by axl. i cannot wait to hear to album version of it.

I really like Madagascar. Not as much as The Blues, but it's a bit more "out there."

When people make fun of Pitman fans and think they're being sarcastic - THIS is the song that proves Pitman is authentic. His work on this is awesome. It also proves just how essential he is to the "new" GN'R sound. Imagine if this song didn't have the synth beats and the spoken word solo? It would kinda suck, or at least sound generic.

Whats the best , and clearest version of madagascar out there for download?

I.e 2002, 2006 version,

can anyone help, I want a version thats good enough to be played loudly on my car speakers, not just my pc speakers


cheers in advanced. :beer:

I still strongly believe that if they remove Buckets solo from this they will be doing the song a huge injustice. My fav version has to be from Rio '01, Buckets solo was still great in '02 but it was more in the background somehow and the synth was raised.
As far as '06 versions go I think the Inland Invasion performance is probably the best i've heard, I like Robins fill ins in the 2nd verse.

The song would suck without the synths and the spoken word montage.

That's what makes the song special.

Honestly, it would sound like a totally different song without the synth intro and backing throughout the song and the spoken word solo. Imagine if it was just a guitar intro and a guitar solo without any spoken words... might be kinda interesting to hear as a B-Side if it's released as a single.

i was there! and madagascar was one of the best moments of the concert (music-wise; the fans were surely more into the old stuff)...

Madagascar is one of the bets songs on this album , its Epic.
But its gut a deeper side to it its , an intro of axl telling
"i wont be told anymore , that ive been brought down into this storm and left so far out from the shore"
Simply means -Im not gona be told that i was brought into this buissness and end up left out of the spotlight

Its like a messege saying Im back , from rubbles ive built my self again
also its a messege to the old members who keep suing and such "That its never too late"
"Oh i found the ways youve lured me in , oh ive found the ways"
thats him tlaking about slash and drugs , i read sumthing about slahs luring him into a few things back in the 90's ina n interview
i say madagascar first single! it so fits it!

Maddy is good, but Axl needs a song that has some punch, upbeat- unusual, to break back into the mainstream of shit out there, and I dont think madagascar has this, but dont doubt me, its a great song, but it doesn't achieve this.


Better would be better then maddy for a first single,
or any other song ([perhaps sorry?) for a single...

''Better'' and ''Madagascar'' should be the first two singles.  :hihi:

I agree about better and madagascar being first single
Btw
theres this song called prositiute that a Exec at egffen described as november rain meets
nighttrain , i really would want to hear that one a single

Is there really a need for these threads?  Isnt there a "What should be the first single thread 2 pages back?"

that being said I think Madagascar is a fine song if you take out all that speech crap in the middle.  I mean seriously, Axl using MLK speeches in a song...I mean this is the guy who wrote One in a Million and about 40 songs about hate and violence.  I dont believe MLK was an angel (proved to be an adulterer and plagiarizer, and when his FBI tapes are released in 2027 itll be revealed he was also a woman beater), but the guy is a symbol of peace and brotherhood.  He also has a national holiday here in the U.S.  and is somewhat deified.   Using his most famous speach (stolen from a speach from the 1952 Republican National Convention) just is totally pretentious coming from a white rocker who is not a racist, but has used the N word in a song and covered a Charles manson song.  Maddy as a single would just open the floodgates for people calling him a hypocrite and reignite people talking about One in a Million and look at your game.

Yeh, I never thought about that,

comparing one in a million with madagascar,

where one , axls talking about fags and "niggers" , and in madagascar, hes showing the need and love for peace,

anyways, I agree, not everyone loves the quotes in madagascar, and it took me a while to,
thats why better would be the best for the first single,then something we havent heard yet,
thyme/sorry?

p found his ways
One ina million wasnt veyr mature
but everyone changes

Maddy would make a good second single.

im not saying that its not a good song or that Axl hasnt matured, although truthfully i think his comments in One in a Million were just showing a hatred for all people who werent Axl.  Its a song about a guy who wants nothing to do from any group and no one ever mentions that he also calls out radicals and racists etc... My point is why open it up to such media scrutiny.  A white guy who put the n word in one of his songs would look like an idiot having MLK speaking on his first single in 15 years.

I disagree with all of that crap.

Nobody important still remembers the whole One in a million N word thing 100 years ago, and nobody cares.
There will never be a time when people start talking about One In A Million and Look at your game girl...
And they shouldn't release Maddy because people would call him a hypocrite? That's the stupidest shit I've read on the whole board. All of that 100 years ago "constroversy" is nothing compared to what's out there today... nobody gives a shit.. and "Madagascar" without the spoken word montage would be turned into a very generic song. It needs the spoken word montage. You got something weird against MLK I can tell you that much..

No floodgates are gonna open... he's not gonna look like an idiot... and I like to think that part of the song is Chris Pitman's part anyway.

People still remember One in a Million, if they dont they dont remember Axl and arent going to be paying attention when the cd comes out anyways.  It got like 8/45 minutes of the GNR behind the music. I know youre a pitman fan and not a GNR fan, but GNR is a band that sings a lot about hate, violence and non-acceptance.  If in the off chance a media outlet and/or fans dont remember One in a Million, Look at your game, maybe theyll remember Get in the Ring, Used to Love Her, Right Next Door to Hell, Back Off Bitch, My World, Appetite for Destruction, Axl jumping into audiences to fight fans, Axl biting security guards, or maybe theyll just remember that despite the braids...Axl's white.  Seriously, dont have MLK's speach in the background.  Seriously its not worth it.  Also people heard Madagascar 5 years ago or so on MTV, i didnt really hear a huge outcry for an encore.

i'm lost ... last week some guy said Better should be the 1st single ...

and the week before someone said it should be IRS ......

I think the 2002 version is better
it seems the happier with the new band he gets
the less meotional its sung
the heavy rasp seriipously doesnt suite it
the 2006 leak of IRs voice is classic for it.

but one in a million was written almost 20 years ago.   Axl is hardly the same guy he was back then.   

I've always thought Madagascar wasn't so much a song personal to Axl but more about the Civil Rights movement.   just my hunch.   Would make a good second or third single.

Maddy is amazing but for the 2cd single.. You know GNR always puts their big ballads as the 2cd single. Sweet Child O' Mine and Novenber Rain so it is guaranteed we won't hear Maddy as the first single but 2nd sounds great though. For the first I think it will be a very fast rocking jam but enough mainstream to it. Sorry,Prostitute,Suckerpunched all come to mind but we don't know for sure?

Better and Madagascar are clearly the best songs Axl has produced in the last 14 years.  Madagascar as the first single is a GREAT move.

I'd like to hear the rest of the songs before I specualte as which ones are singles...my money is on "Better" with the Harley ad and all...

sounds like a disastrous sonic experiment, by that description  :(

I think ''Madagascar'' (as well as TWAT) is a better song than ''Better''. But I also think that the first single should not necesarily be the BEST track, but the most catchy/original/inyourface track

''Better'' is a song that everyone will like. No matter if you are a fan or not. But, for example, TWAT or Maddy are better, deeper and more complex songs, that some people might love, and other people might ignore ''because are long and boring'' (  :rant: )

Anyway, whatever song they choose as first single will kick asses. GNR kicks asses, that's all that matters.

In my opinion, it really should depend on when the album is released...and when the single itself is released.  If it's early summer, a cheesy love song is usually the best bet.  Not that there will necessarily be one on the album.  "Rockers" tend to do a better job in the fall.

I love Madagascar. I would definitely love it to be the first single. I just don't think people will 'get' Better.

                                                 MADAGASCAR

If and when GNR decides to put that out as a single, the whole world is gonna follow the fad on that amazing song, because that song alone is gonna bring in a certain wave of audience and listeners and alot of that will be because the MLK speech that Axl strategically placed in the song because he knows what he's doing. The songs publicity alone and the message will put GNR back over the top, and all those Axl bashing, hater fans will be kissing up again and all those opposed well...........

who knows.... but I hope so

First of all, I just hope there is a single  ;D

Other than that, I think they need a big rocker to get people in the stores that don't remember the early `90's.  Enough of the whiny emo BS, the music world needs some adrenaline, badly. 

I love Madagascar, but I'm just not sure it would be the right choice for the first single.

Personally, although i like the song a lot, I don't see it as a single.

I'd be really happier if one of those three break out as the first single:
TWAT
THE BLUES
MADAGASCAR

Each one of them has the potential to become a memorable epic of November Rain proportions. Mainly if
they do another huge video like that. Not so likely to happen nowadays, but I'll just keep my hopes on it.

No way should Madagascar be released as a single. The song has not stood the test of time. Since being played in 2000 the songs sounds slow, and has become a little boring. The Blues on the other hand is much better, and has stood the test of time. I doubt either of these two songs will be released as singles  :peace:

Absolutely not.....     :no:

Ok so ive been reading posts here n there about madagascar interpretations , and i must say poeple are NOT reading between the lines but only at the speech wich actually all of it speaks "old band"-p.s -wdf relegious?.
so heres my interpretations :
"I won't be told anymore
That I've been brought down in this storm
And left so far out from the shore
That I can't find my way back, my way anymore"-Simple meaning "Im not gona stand here and be told that i was brought into this music bussines , ruled the world and the im suddenyl left out of all that i had and cant come back again"

Forgive them that tear down my soul
Bless them that they might grow old
And free them so that they may know
That it's never, too late
-Meaning Forgive the old members that tear down my soul with the never ending lawsuits bad interviews ,etc , and help them realize that the door to them coming back is always open , its never too late.

For the many times, what seemed like, a memory
I searched and found the ways you used to lure me in
Ooh, I found the ways,
Why it had to be
Mired in denial, and saw heart break / Mired in denial and so afraid
-Means , when i sit here and rmemeber afd illsuions tours and times , it seems like a memory , sumthing gold lost in time , ive finally found how you used to lure me into your habits (stated in interview that slash used to lure axl occasionaly into drugs),
why does this have to be so full of denial and heartbreak why do we have to be so afraid(regrouping?)

If we ever find it true,
That we had the strength to choose,
The freedom or the chains,
We held together-
Means , if the day comes where we all can finally have the strength to comeback and choose wether to get back toegether and be free or hold the chains of denial upon us and stay drifted apart.

Speech-
Sometimes I feel discouraged
I felt this fear
He promised never to leave me, never to leave me alone, no never alone, no never alone!
Let's get something straight, alright?
Promised never to leave me!
This whole thing was fucked up
Never to leave me alone!
All men betray. All lose heart!
I don't want to lose heart!...I want to believe.
-I think the worlds talk for them selves , most probably slash and axl got really close near the end of tour , and when steph and him broke up , slash was his shoulder promising hell never leave..And hes with him 100% ..words speak for themselves

Black men and white men
Together at the table of brotherhood!
I have a dream
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God almighty!! WE ARE FREE AT LAST!!
these words speak for themselves,axl obviouslty finds this speach very relating to him
Basically means when they all the band come toegether , that was axl's dream,and theyl finally be free of this sorrow.
not  all the relegious crap poeple talk about , although theres sum light to that ,maybe axl's faith found its way?

P.s-This id my opinsion , this is what ive analysed over extensive thinking and i can relate to this song very mucyh and understand it because sumthing of similar nature happend to me
If any of you net freaks who are tough on net and so brittle when your heads get shoved down the toilets wana bad mouth , spray your filth elsewhere , i got the right to speak my opinion.

I see you have related the whole song to Gn'Rs past. That's fair enough, although I view the song in a more broader sense. I havn't analyzed Madagascar word for word, I just take the overall feeling of the song, and that feeling I cannot put into words, although I get the feeling of isolation and trapped in ones self.  :peace:

I hope (sorry) that that interpretation is incorrect.  The idea of using MLK's speech in a song about something as insignificant as a band's struggles seems inappropriate to me.

You are quoting incorrect words in the song. A few of the lyrics are wrong but most are correct.

Quoth Wikipedia:


Perhaps Rose, with the song title and some of the lyrics, is making some kind of metaphorical reference between his rumor-laden exile and the rumor-laden disappearance of this ship.?

Thoughts?

I always thought it was the island that broke off from Africa or whereever. Forgive my Geography, No time to research so I am goin out on a limb.

Perhaps. ???

Madagascar is German for "Whale's Vagina".

 :rofl:

Instead of searching for the meaning behind the lyrics, we should look for the sexual meaning behind the titles of the songs :hihi:

So far, TWAT and Whale's Vaginia.....

I always thought Madagascar was a metaphor about the original band.


France controlled Madagascar from the late 1800's until 1960 when Madagascar became independent.

U can read all about it here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar

i also always thought it was his referrence to the old band...Madagascar is a massive piece of land that broke away from Africa, and now it just floats, can't really find its way, and is not considered a country or an island...its basically nothing really....

I thought it was a combo / separation themed song about both the band >:( >:( and a personal relationship. :'( :'(

man, it makes me want to make a new video of it, the songs is SO COOL! :)

WHAT ARE U WAITING FOR!!!!!!!!!!??


DO IT!

Yea, but please, this time, no mimes, berets or loafs of bread.

Thanks.

Speaking of ships, isn't there a ship called the Merry Rose  :hihi:

I read up on Madagascar (the island nation) also, thinking I'd find some kind of correlation with the words and pictures used in the onstage montage, but nothing really sticks out in my eyes. ?The independence movement there wasn't overly violent, and didn't involve anything politically polarizing (opression, slavery, genocide, etc.) ?It all seems pretty tame compared to the struggles of other european colonies. ?

So then I went looking for evidence of the name Madagascar being used as a metaphor or in some kind of catchphrase. ?Being an island so close to Africa yet so different culturally, perhaps people use the word Madagascar to describe someone/something of similar characteristics. ?It was on Wiki's disambiguation page that I found the ship article, which kinda/sorta/maybe ties in with the lyrics to the chorus:


I think the song in its entirety is some kind of opus epitoma for the album where Rose summarily runs through the themes he'll cover throughout - 'Civil War' style political statements, the resolution/acceptance and post-analysis of a failed relationship, and a response to the years of rumor, doubt, and speculation. ?Musically, the song seems to be a reincarnation of 'Civil War', as does the montage obviously.

I think that's part of the appeal of this album (what we've heard of it so far anyway) - the songs are abstract yet intelligent, delving further into complexity both musically and lyrically, full of these metaphorical words and phrases. ?I really hope Rose includes the lyrics inside the album sleeve as with Illusion - I actually wasn't a fan of some of the CD tracks until I read the lyrics. ?

I think the song has links with the island. Maybe Axl went there for a holiday to write some lyrics  :hihi:

Madagascar:
An island country in the Indian Ocean off the southeast coast of Africa comprising the island of Madagascar and several small islands. It was originally peopled by Indonesian and African groups around the end of the first century B.C. The French first established settlements on the island in 1642 and made it a colony in 1896. The country gained full independence as the Malagasy Republic in 1960 and was renamed Madagascar in 1975. Antananarivo is the capital and the largest city. Population: 18,000,000.

(http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/8580/madly8.jpg)

I always thought it had something to do with Civil Rights.

i think its right up there next to Civil War.  Maybe a little better.

Madagascar was the island where Hitler wanted to send all the Jews before WW2.

That picture is awesome.

it makes sence to me cause the lyric "And left so far out from the shore
That I can?t find my way back, my way anymore" obviously refers to a ship of some kind. imo But it also could be that strip of land that some one refered to above me. either way its a damn good song :beer:

I'm sure the people of Madagascar would have something to say about that.  :P

I think it was considered to be the holy land of jews by UN but they decided to give the real place instead.

I think the song relates to the island rather than the ship. There is a well known saying about solitude that I'm pretty sure is on Whyte and MacKay whisky bottles that says "a man is only truly an island when he can call himself Madagascar".

Personally I think that Axl is relating himself and the position he found himself with regards to the rest of the band in the mid-nineties to this saying and therefore to the island of Madagascar.

if i remember correctly, Axl loves the island and even learn some french there.

Some animals from this island get lost at sea, or something like that and can't find there way back.  I'm sure Axl knows this and used this to interpret to his own lyrics.  Def. about the old band in my opinion.

i thought it was based on axl's feelings after watching the animated movie of the same name.

The song is obviously about Axl's departure from the original line-up.  The lyrics aren't too difficult to decipher. 

IMO the song isn't about the old band, but about his life and relationships of many kinds.

Hopefully, someday, we will get an answer to this question from the source ;D

Looks like the top of a guitar!  :o

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/96/Madagascar_sat.png/180px-Madagascar_sat.png)

why a ship? it could also mean a state of mind relating to a situation. Being an outcast etc.  :peace:

;D

The film!! Hahaha!

The song predates the film but anyway like axl would write a song about that!

a ship? no way.. but i hope that they/he will write a few lines about every song in the booklet :yes:

"I could be wrong, but I believe Madagascar is based on an old, old wooden ship that was used during the Civil War era" - Ron Burgundy

Thank you.  Exactly.  For the past couple years I've had to sit back and watch posters who are consumed with the old band post about how every new song is about the old band! 
 :rant:
Oh God that gets old!  These people are transferring their obsession with the old band into the words of Axl's lyrics.  Note to all y'all...just because you are obsessed with the old band doesn't mean Axl is.   :P

Also, how ridiculous is it when not only Madagascar, Better, and IRS have lunatics saying they are about the old band, some will even tell you There Was a Time!   :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Read the lyrics of Madagascar.  Don't you see the beautiful maturation Of Axl?  He's 1000 times more introspective and self-aware.  Just my opinion.   :peace:

Just so you know, and nobody can say otherwise, any requests, links or hints at requests will get you banned.

No need to be a smart ass about it.




/jarmo

So what did everyone think?  lol like I really need to even ask, I'm sure this thread is already filling up. :beer:

I love the new version.  The rasp and voice layering is amazing.  It may be just a demo, but it does show the general direction the band is going in, and that direction fucking rocks.



**I am taking Jarmo's above post as a sign that this thread is open to discuss the newest leak as long as no links, hints or requests are posted**

Well I think we're seeing two distinct and separate directions that the band has been exploring.  we see raw versions of songs similarly sung with familiar arrangements now gettin the synthizer treatment to mak ethem more techy.  I for one much much much prefer the original version of Better and Maddy to what we have heard lately.  The original versions (and yes by original I mean the first versions we heard) were much closer to the raw rock the original band became famous for.  The last version of Better and Maddy are all junked up and too busy.  They sound over produced.  The results of too much tinkering.  Axl's voice in the new Maddy is not good.  It sounds strained and the vocal comes across pretty bad IMO.

I really hope they stay with what we heard originally or release two albums...one with the original raw gutsy versions and another album with the songs synthed out.  It just kills me that GNR is moving toward music thats all faked out synth shit.   :'(

Well since they are all "just demos" maybe the original versions are the ones that will be on the album.  Maybe the new versions are just different versions of the song that Axl just wanted to see how they sounded. 

I hope you're right Tommie.  I think GNR will fail miserably if they releae al album full of synthezier.

I was happy to hear that the latest (March 2007) release was simply an old demo (or so says BF). Either way, while the audio quality was higher than previous 'so called studio leaks' this version I didn't like, as Axl's vocals sounded deeper and not so great. Rio 2000/2001 still rates as my the best Madagascar so far  :peace:

I don't think the final version will sound that different. I guess if people didn't like this demo, they won't like the final product.

Yeah, that's what would make them fail. ::)

So, you think if GNR releases their 13 year in the making album with 12 or 13 songs of over-produced over-synthezied noise they'll succeed?  Voodoo, you're just wrong.  The vast majority of people who are interested in GNR want to hear songs as good as and similar in arrangement to old GNR songs.  The original version of Better falls into that category, as does the Blues and Chinese Democracy.  There may be a few new fans that don't mind having a syntheizer track layed over an entire song, but you are 100% out of your mind if you think the latest version of Maddy wouldn't be ridiculed by the majority critics and fans.  If these latest tracks are not older demos and in fact GNR is heading down this path, they will fail man.  I played this version of Maddy to a few casual fans today.  They reacted like I think most casual fans will react....they thought it was an absolute mess.  Sure, some die hards will think any GNR song is great even if it was white noise.  Throw out those fools, and what you are left with in the market is people looking forward to something similar to old GNR.

This version of Maddy is not gonna cut it mate.

Maddy live is one of my favorite of the "new" songs.  But this studio version I'm not that crazy about.  Its just lacking something that I can't put my finger on.  I do hope its just a demo and the album version is better.

Im not sure I like the new vocal style compared to the live versions. The music is really good though.

My thoughts exactly.

for me it was the other way around, before i thought it was just an ok song and i thought, well i've heard it live and it sounded like studio version of it can't saound much different.. but it did and to me it made it much better, i like this leak better then better itself : ok:

If you take the lyrics at face value its 'that ship from the civil war era'  ;D

I really like the demo and the deep voice. My idea however is that this is a recording from 2002. Since the boston 2002 promo madagascar outcut is identical to the one in the demo. Which lead me to believe he has sung this one in 2002 maybe?

In the mean time, from 2002 till 2006, Axl really improved his voice (at least that shows in his live performances). His old rasp is totally back so it seems which lead me to believe that he recorded all of his vocals again -- with his improved voice -- When I head madagascar live from the 2006 shows he sounds allmost like the Axl from 92.... On the demo he sounds a bit like in 2002 but with more power, trying to belt the rasp out.

Same with Better kind of. The demo sounds quite different to the live versions. There are moments on the demo where he sings clean and moments where he sings with rasp. In his 2006 live shows he is all rasp on Better. The middle sections sounds live much more powerful and more vintage Axl then on the Better demo.

Now my point is that Axl might have re-recorded all that is to be on Chinese Democracy -- taking the maxium out of his recent voice capabilities. Not how the state of his voice was in 2002. Since he clearly seems to have improved live. How that unfolts in the studio, I have no idea. I'm no expert so I might be all wrong.

so besides all that, I think he sounds fucking amazing on the demo and I alone would be very happy if this was the final product. But since so much time went between all of this.....and the final release of Chinese Democracy. I think he re-did all of his vocals to his 2006 voice standards.

But on the other hand, how can he sounds any better then on this demo? He sounds fucking fantastic. So perhaps we are all seeing ghosts or something. People expect way to much anyways. I, for one love this version.

I'm not saying this is the final version, but I don't think it will be that different.

Also, the "mess" you talk about is due to the lacking of proper mixing with so much going on. That will be different, of course.

What I think is that the album will have synth and keyboards all over the places, but still with powerful guitars. Not like the last Better demo, that was shitty. I'm talking about real mixing, not demo quick mix...

Axls vocal delivery matches the theme of the song. Do you want him singing these lyrics with a Paradise City Voice? Or Better Voice?

The delivery matches the theme of the song. That is why its great. I love the rasp, I love the struggle, the desperation, the frustration that he sings with on this song. Its great ...absolutely great

And Musically its aces. The guitar hooks at the end of the 2nd verse are a pleasant surprise.

I couldnt have asked for a better take on this song....

the only 2 versions of Madagascar that compare are Rio3 and the 1 they did in the summer I forget which show...i wanna say budapest or madrid not sure i forget....

the album is gonna be amazing

   I always envisioned the demo/studio to sound a certain way, I guess. And what I heard was definitely not it. I like it, but I like his singing on this song Live more than the demo and that is unusual for me - maybe it's cause I'm so used to it, and need to hear the studio a million times too.

Either way, yes this album is gonna be amazing.

you make great points! Thought about that as well... it surely fits the theme of the song and he delivers greatly. No doubt the album is gonna be amazing!  :D

I would hope that the track does not have finished/final vocals on it. ?Rasp aside, it just seems a bit...rough in spots, in both tone and timing. ?I like it very much, but it does seem to be a less-than-finished version in few respects. ?That said, it's so exciting to hear a well-recorded version of the song, and it makes it that much harded to wait for the finished album...no doubt that the finsihed album version will be incredible.  Again, a very exciting time to be a guns fan!

i think it sounds fantastic musically and vocally

what gets me pumped is that this is still only an unfinished demo that hasnt been mixed or mastered yet. So the sound could potentially be even better  : ok:

Sorry to be a downer but i didnt like it before and having heard the leak i dont like it any more. and i think his voice is quite bad. Maybe he was in pain or havin trouble breathin...?

His voice on the leak is certainly NOT sounding top notch.   But perhaps be thinks it suits the song, or maybe it's been re-recorded.

Either way - I think the track sounds fantastic.   Just reinforces how badly I want the fucker to come out. 

excellant point about axl's voice. i totally agree with you. at first i thought the vocals were a little weird but i guess im so used to the 2002 live version with the high voice. anyway i dig it, if this is just a demo then it can only get better.

i think thats why alot of people are not liking the vocals, they are just so used to listening to the bootlegs from 2002, i mean we've been listening to those for like around 5 years now.

Without flinching I would bet a 1000$'s that these are not the finished vocals.

The real version will definately have vocals that will be percived as polished/cleaned up to those people who feel these current demoed vocals are cool.

some of you peeps are just so silly.  :-*

The only thing I noticed is that the vocals are a little off time at the beginning. Other than that, I think that everything else is perfect. :drool:

To be honest I'm happy that this is just another demo because I hate it, Guitars are way to low in the mix, to much synth and I just can't get used to Axl's voice...

There's not that much synth in the song. You're hearing real violins and shit. This is one of the songs Paul Buckmaster worked on.

P.S. - It's obviously unmixed and unmastered. Also, I can hear the guitars just fine. In the verses there's not that much guitar.

God damn I love the power and emotion of this song!  The layering of vocals in the last verse kicks ass too. 

The only small change necessary was mentioned already.  The timing of vocals on the first verse.  It's only a demo folks!  Damn we're in for a treat.  This album is going to rock.  :yes:

It's fucking beautiful.  :'(

The emotion in his voice is beautiful. Especially the main, gritty one in the last verse.

Hmm I always assumed they were done with a synth...

Well when they play it live, Pitman controls it. But Paul Buckmaster actually composed it for the record.

http://www.newgnr.com/chinesedemocracy/musicians.html
just put your mouse cursor over the names to see a description.

thanks for the info : ok:, can't really put my finger on it but I still think it all sounds a bit bloated... :-\

no problem. :peace:

By the way, for the people wondering about how Robin sings the end in a low voice when Axl sings it in a high voice on the demo. If you listen closely, Axl also has a low voice underneath that high voice for that part and actually, at the part right before the quotes too.

I think it's a scratch vocal.  That said, for the final vocal I hope (though I doubt) they dump that horrible extended scream where Axl builds to a crescendo after the first verse.  I thought it sounded like shit live, and it sounds eually bad here.  In fact, it still sounds like he's running and singing at the same time. 

Also, I played this for a casual listener, and the reaction was "It's good, but Jesus, it just goes on and on."  I like the epics, but I think the point here is that this particular song is a hair repetetive, especially with the repeat of the first verse at the end. 

I'm not a fan of the MLK and Cool Hand Luke stuff in the break, at least not for duration it goes on.  I'm not thrilled with the guitar work either.

All in all, I think they could shave about a minute off this song and it would be stronger for it.   It's a good song, there's just too much of it.
 

Shoeboy.

Isn't it great that not all bands have to follow the "three minutes and a catchy chorus" formula when writing songs?





/jarmo

Those were my thoughts exactly Jarmo, thats one thing we can all be happy about.  Throughout all the leaks, none of them have been like that.

HAHAHAHA

Buckethead - He was in GNR from 2000 - 2004.  The end.

needs more guitar! sounds really limp at the moment, but has the potential to be a good song i reckon.  Just not the way its being played in this demo

I'm gonna stick my neck out on the line and date this as 1999.

Anyone else agree?

Listen to the 1999 TWAT demo and this.....I'm definitely gonna say 1999.

its definetlt an old old demo, maybe 2002 or before.

ithinki what everyone needs to realise is that when recording songs, there is a guide vocal, so when the guitarist or whatever plays, they know which part of the song they're at!

i think the vocal on this DEMO is just the guide.

Guys, guys, guys, and girls.  Listen.  I'm sure lots of you have heard the Nov. Rain demos as well as the Welcome to the Jungle demos.  Would you base your opinions of those songs on those raw demos? 

Just look how much changed with IRS between whenever the demo was made and when it was performed live in '06. 

We are going to be in for one hell of an album!  Totally epic.   :yes: 

This man speaks the truth! The Paradise City demo? Ghastly! The Final product? Brilliant!

whats with all this epic stuff? sure estranged and nov. rain are great "epics," but are there any "epic" songs on Appetite? I would say no, and that album is ranked up there as one of the best rock albums ever made.? So for those of you looking for every song on CD to "epic," I personally hope it doesn't happen.? I want this album to kick my ass, not take me on an epic journey.? Sure a few "epics" will be nice, but not the whole album.

in fact, i would like to hear a few tracks that are the complete opposite of "epic." I would like a track or two that is completely stripped down and is SIMPLE!  And simple doesn't mean bad, it means 2 guitars, a bass, and drums, no super funky layering, just a normal song...acoustic even.

Who on this board expressed a desire to have every song be cut from the same mold as Nov. Rain and Estranged?  While they are great songs, they are pieces of the puzzle.  If you can't appreciate the variety of songs like Better, There Was a Time, IRS, The Blues, Catcher, Silkworms, Rhiad, CD itself, and Madagascar offer, you better listen a little harder.  Not one of these demos goes over or near the 8 or 9 minute mark. 

On a side note didn't you ever hear the bitching about the synth added in on the beginning of PC?  For me, it helps make the song, and apparently it was added on by one Mr. Rose.  I'm glad he did. 

I will agree with your point on a song like Breakdown, I'm not crazy about the outtro.  But...if you want to hear the song stripped down and dirty...here's a crazy idea...go to a show.   :peace:

PS:  you may just find yourself getting an ass-kicking on an epic journey!   :peace:  :beer:

I like the epics when there is a purpose to the length.  Long for long's sake blows.  I'm not saying it should be more formulaic, I'm saying it should suck less.

woah dude, did you even read my post? First of all, who said ANYTHING about Breakdown? Second, I didn't say anything about the length of a song and whether or not that determines if it is epic.  And third, You're the one who said the album would be "totally epic"

Yeah i think the demo is from 99 - 2000. It was very new at rio 3.

I think the demo CD was recorded in 2000. This song is great. I can't wait to hear the newer verson of it.  :beer:

woah dude, did you even read my post? First of all, who said ANYTHING about Breakdown? Second, I didn't say anything about the length of a song and whether or not that determines if it is epic.  And third, You're the one who said the album would be "totally epic"


1:  I was drawing a parallel.
2:  point taken.  however, definition of epic: "extending beyond the usual or ordinary, especially in size or scope. 
3:  a figure of speech.
 :peace:

TWAT is an epic, but I would say the ending kicks more ass than most of old GNR's songs. That solo kicks my ass every time I hear it! Unbelievable playing by Bucket. You can have epic and kickass in the same song.  :)

^ I totally agree.  All the guitarists kick ass.  :beer:

the leak sounds like some generic 80's metal singer is tryin to immitate axl's voice by making his voice raspy.

this could too easily be an april fools joke

It came out in March, genius.

Yes, imho rocket queen qualifies. That depends on your definition, its not an exact science tho, defining an epic song. Unless you just think it means long.

I agree with you. RQ is an epic in my opinion. It's all about a huge change in tempo. An epic like November Rain starts slow and ends fast. RQ starts raunchy and turns sentimental, meanwhile the tempo starts pretty fast and winds up more like the "pop" style of Sweet Child O' Mine by the end of the song.

No man the guitar is fine the one thing this song is missing is cow bell.

As Axl would say about the wagon, "Where is that confounded cow bell?" More cow bell means bring on Adler! LOL.

I tihnk it sounds awesome, but def unfinished and there are a few parts that are kinda lame.  all in all i can only see a final version being better which is great b/c this one is pretty solid as is.

Old or not....is a ass-kickin' song!!!! Something that Velvet Revolver wouldn't never create...

And is a unfinished version....think when the finished version come out

I agree.  This sounds to me like an early demo of the song from 99 or 00, based on its sound compared to the current live version and based on the 99 versions of IRS and TWAT

one thing that says its unfinished?
theres no bumblefoot!

You are right, it doesn't even have Buckethead on there.

I really like the orchestration.  The synth orchestration audible on the last few shows' versions of The Blues has me wishing that song had leaked instead.

i think the raspy vocals are not gonna make this one better; madagascar was one of my favs for a long time... but during the last tour, the blues and madagacar have gotten "new vocals", which i don't like too much; for the old and heavier new songs this raspy voice is perfect... but now madagascar sounds like tom waits gone wild... it's too exaggerated and over the top. kinda like a caricature of gnr by axl himself. hope he changes those vox... there's more to offer than the 2 extremes of "helium"-axl and this "i smoke 29 cigars a day"-voice, i hope...

Some people tend to get lost with their usual overanalysis and forget that a demo is an unfinished track and that maybe the final version will sound different. I could be wrong but I think it?s pretty normal that bands record different versions of a song to try different things or some kinda arrangements.That?s what demos are for, or atleast that?s what I?ve always heard,but my knowledge of recordings and stuff is quite little so I could be wrong.

Song is amazing.

Guitars are mindblowing.

It's clearly a demo with a once over with Axl's vocals. When they are engineered a bit raspier it will sound awesome. The second verse gives me goosebumps and the lead up to the middle part with the quotes.

I guess a little of the 'wow' factor was taken out because you kinda know what to expect from hearing it live. I bet the final version will just be mindblowing, but again the wow factor is taken off as we have heard this, which is the bad thing about the leaks. Great now but the feeling of listening to this awesome song for the first time when the CD comes out won't be there. Although I won't be able to help myself if there are, I pray for no more unheard song leaks.

drums are great. really impressed with the power behind it; the song will be even more powerful, when it's mixed properly... the vocals and the (not-)mixing are what make this version nothing but a demo...

The ndrums sond very like Bonham Esspecially the breakdown befoe The  sample collage..It is reminiscent of When the Lecvee Breaks from ZepIV