Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Maybe I am wrong, but I belive that IRS is a different recording of the song... not the old leaked clip...

That means that there's another source of gnr demos ! I belive there's a close date to release chinese democracy, so few demos were given to selected people (radios, producers, event managers...) and that's why we got some leaks.

About IRS, I belive that axl's lyrics and vocal melody are very VERY well... but I personally don't like the music... just 3 chords ascending the whole 5 minutes... green day has more complex song, and this album is supossed to be a revolutionary album, with queen style parts? ? ?

Thanks for your time reading. I'm waiting the album recording & mix quality, I'm sure it will sound much better. I liked the song... it has that rose touch  : ok:

Yes , you are wrong. It is the SAME version , only cleaner.

It seems like everybody heard it already.

 :crying:

I haven't.... and I can't find a link.

Nope I am not wrong... the old leak was recorded from the radio, bad quality, plus the first part was missing.

This source comes directly from the demo disc, wich sounds clearer, and full song.

What I'm trying to say (Im sorry for my bad english) is that somebody out there has got some demos (The radio demo had 4 new songs plus 4 instrumental ver) and he's willing to share them with us...

The same person who posted better clip has the full song and maybe other songs too, it's matter of time until this guy shows all the demo.

I personally don't want a link. I want to hear it for the 1st time when the CD is in my hands.

this post was created to discuss that there's a BIG chance of more gnr leaked songs... better completed plus 2 more demos.

If you don't want to listen demos, then don't doit.

I would have loved that as well, like I did with the Illusion albums...sat there for 4 hours taking it all in, and then listening again...but at this point, I'll take what I can get-when I can get it.

I'm sure there were 3 songs, with 3 instrumentals?

You're not the only one. ?I'm waiting for CD as well.

It's the Trunk CD. I really have no doubt about it.

Who this Wes is and where he got the CD is a completely different mystery.

If these demos are from 2002 or earlier, why weren't these songs leaked before? Who is leaking them and why?

the manegment is leaking them because CD wont be out anytime soon  :-X Thas what i think.

Who - God.

Why - 1st sign of the apocalypse.

ahahahahah!! Nice one Saul.

thanks , I'll be here all week.  :hihi:

And please...try the prime rib

Hahaha.

I really believe we need humor in trying times like these.  : ok:

Is it just me, or is the IRS demo not the one that was butchered for the original leak on the boards?

To me it just seems completely different.

Apparently that original leak was tampered with...sped up, tempo changed, some shit like that..

And don't forget, it sounded like it was recorded through a radio transmitter with a distorted speaker behind a wall..

As for where it came from; yeah apparently some demo cd that has been passed on to some eddie trunk guy or some shit like that....why now? Good question....well we fuckin deserve something..

With all the disaray surrounding the leak of 1:20 minutes of a demo, and a higher quality version of an already leaked song, one has to ask themselves one simple question; why now? Don't you people find it somewhat strange that for almost 4 years Axl has been barely seen or heard from, and now all of a sudden people are seeing him all around the country, actually getting quotes from him, stories surrounding his alleged bribary for lack of a better word, of listening to CD, and now this? Then you add in the potential Da Vinci Code Soundtrack, and the Slash comments. Dude, this thing is done, and it's coming now! And don't think for one second that Axl and Merck aren't behind these leaks. It's just like your parents letting you open one present on Christmas Eve; they know the best is yet to come and that one present is just whetting our appetites. It isn't spoiling anything, it's just getting our engines going. Just think of the PR this thing is gonna get. Plus, Howard Fucking Stern played IRS on Sirius. Are you kidding me? No chance in hell that wasn't intentional, and if you can dig up the comments, the whole conversation sounds scripted, like they have planned on this for a while. I guarantee the mixed versions of the new songs we have heard are gonna be even better, which is amazing because I actually cried when I heard Better. What "beter" way to go into the weekend with an official press release stating a release date, eh?

To me the only thing that makes this year different then the past 3 years, is that Axl is out now and he is talking and now the fact the radio stations are playing IRS.? Other then that...it's just like the past couple years..? We had the IRS leak, management reacted the same way and still we had no album.. Axl out and the stations playing IRS which I believe is a ploy from GNR management..especially if they don't put a stop to it and even if they do...it just seems odd that the stations, multiple stations are playing it.

Or perhaps the person who has the demos sensed that perhaps a release is coming and decided to get one last power fix before the thing is released.

That's what I'm thinking - the "leaks" will be useless once the album is released.

But I doubt that will happen anytime soon.

My thoughts are that these demos have been on cd at someones house for ages, Some casual fan who does not use the internet much and didnt know what they had(maybe thought they were fake)
Notice that better got leaked maybe a week after axl said the title in public for the first time ever?       This person with the cd read this and went....  SHIT!!! this stuff must be real.... Wheres that cd i threw aside a year ago?.... and uploaded them... Just my thoughts and it makes sense.   :yes:

I had the songs burned to cd and left them in the computer at school. Hopefully some unknowing schmuck will try to listen to it and get the shock of his life!  :rofl: Imagine being a gnr fan who doesn't get on the net for news and finds this music just sitting in a computer.  :hihi:

someone mentioned to me that the source of the leaks has something to do with Axls vegas excursion? make of that what you will...

Well, whoever leaked the tracks, they're a bit daft. Axl's lawyers are going to be on the scent, and they're going to take his CD off him - so really, as an insurance policy to ensure he still has access to the songs afterwards, he might as well have leaked all three. Mind you, with the lawsuits that are going to be heading his way, that'll be the least of his worries. I find it hilarious that he's saying, "Oh, I didn't leak all of Better and TWAT for Axl's sake, to whet your appetite for the album."

Somehow, I don't think that argument's going to hold water, given that Axl's probably fuming with incandescent RAGE right now...

SG

Are these songs from the Truck CD? And why weren't these songs leaked in '03-'05? I wanna know damit! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

If CD is released, I think it would make an excellent promotional strategy to release an EP called 'The Trunk EP'. And if 'Better' is from another source (e.g. his Vegas excursion) create a similar EP in the same manner. Kind of like the X-Files for GNR

Even if the songs are already on the album, they would make great collector's items, as would previous mixes of albums by diffrent producers / musicians.

My Theory:

The leaks are coming from someone who's been "inside" for a while now.? This "insider" apparently doesn't mind that it's taking Axl forever to release the album BUT gets really really pissed when Axl plays it in public for peoples other than the regular fans.

Axl plays CD for those strippers in LV in July 2003 ... then August 2003, Piazza plays that early scratchy version of IRS on the Trunk show.

Axl plays CD for that NYC night club owner and that "bevy" (probably the Victoria Secret models who Richard played for) on Feb 10th ... then on Feb 15th a clearer version of IRS is leaked plus the Better leak.

Coincidence?? Maybe .... Maybe NOT!!!

So if my theory is correct and Axl keeps hangin' out at these seedy joints, then the "fan-friendly insider" will eventually leak us the entire actual album!!!? ;D

Go on mygnr there is a guy there saying how he got the cd

 ??? Wasn't Axl grandma then ???

what did he say?

I'm more interested about the radio leaks.  Who was the first radio station to play "Better" on the radio?  Maxim Radio: The Bower Show mentioned that they were the first to play as much as they did.  They had a good amount segment on the two "new" songs.

one swallow doesnt make a summer.

Yes things are promising right now, but they've been good before and have generally turned bad pretty quickly.

I think with all the people who have been involved with CD throughout the years, there has to be someone with a demo. ?Perhaps since Axl is back in the public eye, the person with the demo is deciding to share. ? it's a stange theory, but a very simple one.

The two main ways that leaks occur are either people involved with recording the project in some capacity get their hands on songs, or when the album is sent to be pressed or mastered songs get leaked.  So there you have it.  To me it's amazing that with how long they've been working on this album, there's still only been one song leaked in its entirety.  They're doing a great job keeping the album under wraps. 

The reason that I think the recent leaks were made by someone close to the project who cares about not doing any damage to the band is that the only leaks we've had are a higher quality version of a song that leaked quite a while ago, and a short "teaser" clip of a new song that had never been heard of until Axl mentioned it last month

I am reading some things about these demos on the board which are pretty funny. I am an older fan, so bear with me. Pretent you never heard november rain. I have 2 really old demo versions. Axl and a piano, and axl and 1 guitar. If this was the 1st time you heard NR, most people would be like "what the hell is this?". But look how good that song turned out to be! I think twat and better will be really amazing.

they are already amazing

Amen

TWAT sounds pretty complete to me.

These songs are already great.  The lyrics on TWAT are some of Axl's best ever, really great song writing and melodies on that song

TWAT is pretty dam complete sounding.  What more could you add?  I say leave it.  Maybe tweak the mix, keep the song.  I love it!

These demos are better than what other people dare to put out as 'hit singles'.

There are individual threads for each new song.  My main question is this, I am not complaining about the new songs being leaked, I just want to know who is behind them being released and whats the motive?  Is someone stealing them from Axl and putting them online, or is Axl and management behind this to create a buzz about the new GnR sound?  Could the plan be lets release clips and demos, and deny them being official releases, however knowing they are creating alot of buzz through out all the media outlets? But another reason which leads me to believe they are not behind it is, if they truly are releasing the songs, why not release clips or teasers on gnronline and revive the official website? Its crazy whats going on, I love the new material, but Id rather have an announcement with an official release of CD soon rather then get another 80 second clip.

ur guess on whos releasing them as is good as any one elses. TIme will tell

They're being released by someone(s) on MyGNR (I guess no one will be bashing that forum for a few days) who claims to have picked up a CD in Las Vegas.

The last leak was orchestrated with the admin on another forum I guess to cover the original poster's tracks, but it was a horrible job :P

and Better isnt from the trunk cd....and it sounds pretty fucking complete.

there is so much goin on right now my head is about to explode.

I hate busy season at work!!  I've missed all the excitement of the past two days.  DAMMIT!!

But at least there's activity, so something is brewing.  Guess I'll just have to wait for the album.(still)

its 3.47 am here and im not going to bed any time soon!!!

All these years I've never seen that many gusest cruising this forum.  (George Takei voice: Oh my!)

I don't know WTF is going on but I like it!!

I remember getting those NR demos back in 1989 and thinking "i cant wait to hear the studio verion".  i think both of those demos blow away the bloated version

Make that 2

haha, it's 4:50 here.. i wanted to go to bed,but everytime something new came up.. amazing

Anyone else post at MyGN'R.com?
I can't get in,and it says something about users who post links get "read only" options without warning,but the thing is,I never posted shit

to sum up the events so far- full, good quality of IRS was leaked about a day and a half ago alnog with an 80sec. clip of a song called better. the song TWAT was leaked just a few hours ago. Within the last half hour, a 2:06 clip of better was leaked. PM for details :beer:

It is obviously the Trunk CD.

IRS, Twat, and Better

there are also 3 instrumentals swimming on that disc

i swear to god i just replied on the topic saying its rumor that the general is out there

Nope, I don't think it IS the Trunk CD.

IRS perhaps. ?But Better? ?There is rumoured to be another song in circulation too, which I had not heard of before. ?No, I don't have it. ?

I thought Trunk said that the disc he had did not feature Better?

Yea something like that

did I just see a thread about "The General" get removed before I got the chance to check it out?

I was in MYGNRFORUM.COM forum than a brother of Wes speak abought the true history abought the demos .
He says that he had the cd demos from someone ho works on the strip club in vegas .
He decides shared the demos because if he dont have them he want to heard the demos too .

Stop blaming MYGNR, its not them posting the links. They have took the site down and have acted profesionally about it all.

I don't think this is the Trunck CD.


IF it was, there is not one cat in hells chance Piazza would have made him play IRS instead of Better, no way.

yes, the guy said there may be a copy floating around, but its a rumor

no i replyed on it

I don't know what's going on but I like it too. There has been such silence for such a long time that all this is so exciting. I feel bad for Axl with all the music leaking out, but he has nothing to worry about. The music speaks for itself and is awesome.

Is it reasonable to believe that some employee of a strip club got hold of demo discs?

 :(

Everyboday is going insane...and I love it !!!

You GNR fans are the best...

Maybe, but the story said the disc was Chinese Democracy

Wouldn't be difficult for the DJ to record them while they were playing, either...

we know we are ;D

I was thinking the same thing....

if' the general' is out there then it seems to me the record is leaking OR at least a sampler disc for radio stations. Trunk never had 'Better', and both it and 'TWAT' seem relatively finished to me. I thought March was out of the question, but if this keeps picking up, they may have no choice but to release it ahead of schedule.

Is it possible that this is a way to really fuck with the record company? ?i.e. release all the songs,without them? ?Take them completely out of the loop?

I was in MYGNRFORUM.COM forum than a brother of Wes speak abought the true history abought the demos .
He says that he had the cd demos from someone ho works on the strip club in vegas .
He decides shared the demos because if he dont have them he want to heard the demos too .

He first leak the demos so i belive its true .

I initially thought management was involved when the most recent I.R.S leak came out. ?It just made sense to give fans a little taste of what is to come, especially with Axl being out in the public eye more recently. ?It certainly would make sense to try and create a 'buzz'. ?However, as the leaks continue, you've got to wonder what they, or Axl specifically, are thinking. ?Even if they are disappointed, they have to be thrilled at the fan reaction and positive response. ?Besides, hearing a couple of demo clips aren't really going to keep people from buying the album. ?I'm certain the album sales will be just fine...

Look at this way, Axl mentions Better as one of his favorites, about a month later, we have a fucking clip of Better, what the fuck is that all about? seriously what person just happened to have a demo of Better. this is crazy, and can only happen in the world of GnR.

If anything else is leaked, I just want it to be the full version of Better.

better- 1:20
            2:06

IRS-     full

TWAT  6:01
          6:43   (longer solo)

These songs are not rough enough to be Demos, this is the real deal people!

I know what happened!  Axl leaves Cali. to go to New York, and Beta leaks Chinese Democracy!  Just kidding, this is fucking amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  All hell is breaking loose!  See ya at the record store VERY SOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :love: 

Maybe Tracy and Roberta are behind this?

What if Axl, and management decided to simply reward all the GNR fans with material that they can no longer use, because Buckethead left the band, and they cannot duplicate his style?  What if the real Chinese Democracy CD is filled with great music, but non-shredding guitar style playing, and all of these songs were never going to be released anyway?

rofl!! good one

i'd poop my pants

I'd die......

TWAT is too much of a personal song for being left out of the cd

umm



i am stupid?? i can't find the link to TWAT anywhere... how did u guys find it??

someone PM ME PLEASE!!!

theres no way lol

It COULD happen.  If Fink or Fortus can't play them, then they can't play them.  Buckethead is very hard to duplicate, so maybe even if they are great, they just can't use them.

They'd just release it as it was.

There are better guitarists than Buckethead. People could be paid to complete the album, or to tour even, if it came to that.

I read Bucket is the 7th fastest in the world and rated something like 4th in technical? I bet there are a hundred people in the world who could do that stuff he does.

Would anyone agree that based off the lyrics from IRS, Better and TWAT, and even the Blues and Madagascar, that this is going to be a more emotional album for Axl as compared to UYI ?

I believed Stinson's words about the subject.

huh!!!!???? :-[ I go offline for a few hours and shit hits the fan? two complete versions of T.W.A.T.?!@@!!

I think Stinson needs to decide what band he's goign to officially be in once CD is released.  To be perfectly honest I don't like the fact that he's doing shows with SA, so WTF is going on with his situation? I mean he hasnt mentioned anything GNR since 9/18 on his website, and for awhile he seemed like the face for guns during 2004.

Unless you're Axl and Stinson stoped answering your calls I'd say there's nothing to worry about.

Really, Stinson can do anything until he gets a call from Mr. Rose.

Their server is going ape-shit, dude!!

Any talented guitarist could play those parts with enough practice. Comming up with those riffs is a whole different subject.

Meh, his contributions thus far haven't been enough to discard the songs. No way.

These leaks are intentional! This is a way to get a buzz for the album. To make everything wet there pants at what Axl has been working on for years and say look who's back! These tracks kick the shit out of everything released in the past five years. Simply amazing!

they replaced izzy who was close with the band and very good as a songwriter and all that stuff...


and u dont think they can replace buckethead??  :o

Honestly, I think some of you guys have terribly underrated the playing abilities of both Finck and (especially) Mr. Fortus, i'm sure they could both play what Buckethead recorded.

One word: Impossible.

so now whats next? announcement? more denial?

HOLY FRIGGIN SHIT...all I gotta say.


Axl is a great man...

No its not impossible. It may not sound exactly the same but in concert, it wouldn't really matter as long as it's close. Live songs are great because they expand on the studio recording. Do you really think people buy live cds or go to concerts because they want to hear a song with just a crowd noise behind it?

Finck can play fast, but he can't sustain that for long. I guess he'll have to come up with his own solo for Bucketheads parts. But I guess it won't matter live...

Is there any update on the full version of Better?

Is it possible these tracks were ripped by a dj at the club that axlo celebrated his birthday party at?

Its quite possible that the dj ripped the tracks while he was playing them for the audience and if thats the case we could be in for quite a bit more

i dont think axl would play demos at a club.im preety sure these arnt from that night

Do you guys think that they're maybe one of the 10 extra songs that will come with CD...I can't believe the album will have only 12 tracks....

Ryad and the bedouins (already heard)
Chinese democracy (already heard)
The Blues (already heard)
Madagascar (already heard)
I.R.S. (already heard)

and now...

Better
T.W.A.T.

So we maybe alreday heard half of CD...I hope not...

What about those 32 songs (26 alreaday done) ?
And the extra 10 tracks as a bonus cd...

I hope only Better and TWAT will be on the CD album...then we could hear 20 more songs :)

By the way, I justcan't believe that Better will not be the fisrt single...it's just too good and it's would fit perfectly for radio...

My Theory:

Slash is doing this


Slash, drunk as hell, put a KFC in the head, go to the studio where the guy is mixing the album, enter the studio and say "hey, Im blofkethead, let me hear what I recorded" ... the studio guy says "sure bucket" ... then Slash take the CD and start to run as fast as he can laughing "heeey, Im blofketheaaaaaad, Im blofketheaaaaaaaaaaaaaad and I do the chacko thing !!"

i was thinking the same thing.

and if that is the case, this is really bad.

prostitute will be leaked soon i know  ;)

axl said we'd gear music this year i would never have guessed it was so soon.as for the quality of these songs wow the more i listen to them the more i love them.i listened to the shitty quality irs leaked last year and it was so bad i only listened to it once.
better seems cool
twat rules though and the solo at the end is great wonder who done it???

my guess is these tracks have been put out on purpose hope its the nd of them though i feel im spoiling things here not to mention wetting my appetite even more.

the tracks also seem really polised theres all kinds of sound effects going on im pretty sure ive heard nothing like them before.

Well TWAT and Prostitute do go hand and hand when you think about it. Every good prostitute has a twat.

lmfao

They are being released via leak because Axl is getting back together with the old band and now doesn't have to release an album with a bunch of hired guns and have that awkward pressure.  He will we work these songs and the songs from the 2002 Izzy, Slash, Duff, and Matt jam session for the next album.  He said you would here new music.  We are. 


Just kidding.  The album comes out next month says Slash!!!!!!

I am so confused by all of this.  We haven't heard shit from anyone.  Mystereon, give us some insight!!!!!

fink and fortus can play what buckethead played on TWAT.  ITs amazing stuff but nothing is that hard.

I would prefer Mr. Buckethead to come back and play for himself.

From several years up to now, I've heard Gn'R Musicans, Guest musicans, People working on the album...

Where are the orchestal arrangements on twat?
Where are the revolutionary album? These songs are parte of that?
Why all the songs has an ugly electronic intro? Bucket has gone come on...
Where are the complex Izzy fixes in the songs? this new music sounds very simple, all power chords...
Where are the queen style arrangements?
Where the fuck is the drummer? did you guys listen the drum tracks?
Why the bass plays nothing but tonics ?

I know this is a demo... but those songs are far, FAR away to be revolutionaries. Axl vocal melodies are great, and the solos sounds good... buy the rytmical parts are damn poor, and the whole songs are not what all the people over the years had told me  :-\

I'm gonna wait for the album... few years more  :P

There are more songs on the album. And TWAT will sound nothing like the demo.. Its such a rough cut.

come on!! This is DEMOS! How do we know this is the way they sound on the album??

They are basic demos converted in mp'3 (with a sound loss).

chill yourself

this is exactly why leaks like this are bad because people like you think they are final cuts

this shit is at least 3, 3 and a half years old

demos man

I picture some metal head stoner saying that..

Demos man, demos..

IDK.. dont ask.. weird cuple of days.

They sound great, I already consider TWAT one of the best songs ever....and Better too though we haven't heard the full version.

Twat is revolutionary.  It's fuckin amazing.  IRS is a rockin song that kicks ass!  Better sounds like it will be a really cool song. 

I already said that... but drums SUCKS and bass SUCKS. rytm parts sounds very "korn"

Better and TWAT are supposed to be the big guns in the album, according to many interviews. These songs are supposed to be the "estranged" and the "Sweet child" of the upcoming album...

Compare the new tracks with appetite or UYI demos  :P


The songs are not bad... but they are not "revolutionary"

"revolution" were the beatles, not chinese democracy.

I'm tryin to say that the songs are not bad... but they are not what they sold me with interviews and comments.

My reason has been used many times already so  :-X

didn`t you read the posts prior to your second one???

noone knows if these demos represent the final product in a proper way...so wait for CD to make your negative judgements...

Not to repeat myself, but I'm assuming you've never heard the november rain demo?

Oooooohh good one oneway23 : ok: that is a sweet comparison, imagine if the songs prgress by that amount to the final mix!! :o Holy shit!!!! :D that would be freaking sweet : ok:

u beat me to the punch..i was just about to say that...the NR demo sounded nothing like the beautiful song that we now know to be NR

I don't remember anyone from the GNR camp promissed  whatever revolutionary. ???

Anyway, what beatles song is revolutionary to you?

Revolution :hihi:

me neither.

Is it good music? Does it give you pleasure? Does it mean something to you? These are the questions that should be asked of oenself.

btw, at no point do any of these songs sound like korn.  Typical haters.

EXACTLY! That is the whole point I was trying to make. How can you listen to this version of twat and say it is ok, nothing special. Those early NR demos were nothing special. But NR is one of the best songs ever recorded. I think twat has that potential, I cant wait to here it on the album. I can almost see it being played live, (axl on piano, Slash standing on paino) Whoops, I forgot :-)

Yeas, I have these demos as well, but they are not comparable to the current ones IMO. They were really early stage stuff, but these new ones sound pretty much finished. Just some pices and bits that are not added yet.

However, they are great.

/lastroots

Yeah totally agree with you.

These songs are terrific songs but they aren't revolutionary. They are not this mindblowing experience that will appeal to everyone.

No song will be "revolutionary" All we can do is hope for a great album by our favorite band. Some will love it and some will hate it. Not everyone likes the same thing. But I think we can all agree these songs are good and it gives us something to look forward to!

BE PATIENT!!!............... :hihi:

Right and Axl knows as much-he said as much to Rolling Stone! It seems to me Axl knows he aint gonna please everybody and hes fine with it-IMO it was and always has been about pleasing himself-making the record he wanted to make-not to be the fucking savior of the music industry. It was never about a revolution except to us. JMO.

I'm sick of people claiming these songs aren't the revolutionary, mind-blowing experience that poeple are apparantly expecting. Axl has never promised us an earth-shattering, monumental album. He has simply taken this time to create an album he is happy with. The length of time it has taken for this album to eventually see the light of day has, unfortunately, created a massive expectation.

But these songs, notwithstanding their 'demo' status, are superb and if they are a merely a taste of what we can expect, then I am one happy mother fucker.

These new tunes rock.

"Better" has a great melody and "TWAT" has unreal guitar.

Studio version TWAT could be one of the greatest songs Axl ever puts his name to.

These are demos.  They aren't finished.   There's no way that the band or label officially release this material with such sloppy mixes of IRS and TWAT.  If these are the final cuts, then this has been a waste of time and a lot of $$$.

BTW, don't tell me that if you think the money spent is an issue that you're not a fan.  The money spent on this album is every bit as much of an issue as the amount of time that it took to complete.  It's all part of the story.

I think when the final album comes out, it will sound significantly more refined.  As of now, the vocals are just kind of there.  They are not integrated with the music (with the possible exception of 'Better' ). 

My conspiracy theory- the band and management allowed these demos to leak as a cover while the masters move from Sterling Sound over to duplication.  The 'real deal' is yet to come.

I think twat is great, I have only one remark.

the guitar work in first 15 s needs to be better.

other than that it's a+

That actually isnt such a crazy conspiracy-get some demos out of just enough quality that they distract everyone from the final product being mastered and pressed. hmmm....

this just dosent make sense,

Axl must be behind the leaks, because if he wasnt he could just sit at home, rather than his recnet appearences?

there may be more too, what happens if there are another 3 leaked, thats half an albumn

-IF- Axl is behind the leaks, perhaps he ONLY leaked three of them?   Why must there be more?

now better has been extended!!!!! almost another meg of this song

why not pop it up on itunes and let it sell, why hold back

It's still not the whole song. You can tell...

what do you mean 'bow better has been extended" by 1 meg.....

are you referring to the 2:01 version???

Would you please stop starting new threads for everything that pops into your heads.

Take a minute or two and look back a few pages to see if there's already a recent thread about "your" subject.

You can also use the thing we call "Search" for finding threads/posts.



If you newbies don't stop posting these repeat threads, I'll have to set up this board so that only moderators can start new threads. Is that what you all want? We spend too much time merging threads these days because some of you are too fucking lazy!





/jarmo

oops sorry dude!!!!

Axl must be behind this!!!

i reckon there could be one or more too leaked

I think someone just ripped them from the master disc at low quality.  They didn't have time to adjust the quality, and then Axl walked back into the room during the ripping of "Better", so the rip was aborted.  Yup, that's what happened.

Please tell me your joking...you are...right?

yeah sure    that?s what happened : ok:

seems that someone ripped the master 3 years ago...

Did you hear the IRS clip last year?  Its the same recording, just better quality.

Some people just have a big imagination.

theyre not from the mastered tracks. its more plausible that they have come from an unmastered tape. but even ripped at a poor quality, axls vocals are far too lower i the mix for them to be the finished article.

Of course only Axl Rose is leaking them...  do you believe that MR "I LOVE TO SUE" "I love trials" AXL ROSE, would allow these things without complaining?

Yeah Dog! :beer: :smoking: :beer: : ok:

I honestly truely hope that it is some member of the press who is leaking these songs, who got an advance copy.  If it was some insider person that is leaking the tracks that could mean the album might not be released as soon as we hoped.

thank you!! i mentioned this laste week but got a smart ass reply. i knew the tempo was faster. it sounded better that way too

Fuck I know no one really knows but how do we ge the damn leaks, I mean we keep getting half songs then the rest out of the blue all of a sudden appears online..? I mean how is this happening, is it some demo that someone had for 4 years or is someone getting these in the past 4 weeks.. Why beeter three times, why not the whole song at one, why the small version of irs then evenbtually the 6 minute plus..?? I don't care if the thread is crazy I am just curious who has these songs and why they are leaking them in parts and why now..?

and if I sit here long enough will I get all teh songs, is there someone out there with this entire album?

i got mine off a long time friend- internet fan from a gnr forum a long time ago

I don't know, I guess axl could be leaking them himself.

welcome to the party, you just wake up - LOL

I think IRS comes from the Eddie Trunk CD.

I think TWAT & BETTER come from a rip of the CD Axl played at that strip joint.

Which leads me to believe someone may have PROSTITUE and others. But not the whole record.

Yes, of course there is someone out there with the entire album. ?Maybe not the completed CD, but SOMEONE has a disc with an album's worth (if not more) of new Axl's new material...
 :drool:

I must have missed that one too ???

tad there's a 641 I believe, there was like a 601 before that.. It's weird how each songs grows as time goes on

it's like there is some sick asshole that just throws a crumb then watches you salivate until he feels it's ok to give us peasants more..

I am honestly expecting more leaks to occur, possibly in the same fashions, samples then nearly complete demos..

I may listen to them all but I will give money for 2 cds and all the money towards live shows.. : ok:

Maybe its Buckethead releasing them so people can hear his work on the songs b4 they get re-recorded!!

Im not aware of a 6min IRS either?

IRS is 4:16.  they're fucking with you.

Plus, there have been like 320498723489723894 different threads about 'where do leaks come from.'  it's funny to note that when someone with 3,xxx 'beats a dead horse' the mods don't do anything, but if someone else posts anything even close to relevant to another thread, jarmo + other mods have a stroke

That's because there's no such thing.

I also heard prostitute was leaked!...the lyrics are on the net so i'm wondering who has the song....whoever has it..dammit! share it hahahaha ?:hihi: PM me................................................................ J/k ? :hihi: :smoking:

Axl wouldn't be stupid enough to play the WHOLE CD in public.

I wouldn't be surprised if the CD's he's been playing at the clubs have about 6 songs on with a few different mixes of each. Just because somone said he had a CD with 10 tracks, deosn't mean it was 10 different songs, it's likely some of the songs were repeated in different versions.

never know, every group these days give you an entire free listen for a while before the album even hits stores.. I'm sure he didn't though, anywhere from 6 to 8 tunes imo

i was gonna say, the version i have is 4:16 and sounds full to me. There's so many different versions of these songs floating around it's getting hard to keep it all straight.

my mistake someone should have realised I was speaking of twat nor irs :hihi:

Has anyone apart from Doashk heard the alleged new song?

Jarmo of course.  :hihi:

He is auditioning to be the 3rd guitar player and he got them all so he could practice up. :rofl:

The thing I don't understand about the leaks is if someone has a cd full of material, why are they releasing it a bit at a time? Other than being some weird person who gets a kick out of seeing us go crazy for half a song at a time, or it is actually the label/Axl doing it, why wouldn't the person just put everything they have up at once? If it's just someone who by luck came into having a cd of new gnr material, why wouldn't they just put it all on the net and get it over with?

ax someone is sitting back there likethe puppet master watching everyone squirm getting their jollys..

I also think leaking it slowly if there is and inside ploy this can keep the board jumping longer, the minute it dies down something else pops up and gets more attention..,. You can have this board jumping and people emailing links for the next few months until something happens and you'll have months n months of buzz

I have no clue who is responsible for all the leaks, but I want to be responsible for the next one. If anyone out there has a new track not yet leaked... I may have something to give you to make it worth your while. :smoking:

Yeah there's one other guy who's claiming to have it, I just sent him a message trough aim but he aint responding, Doashk said it wasn't a leak but a stream of somekind ??? If you ask me they're all just attention whores :yes:

If there is more songs out there... I am working my ass off to find anyone willing to negotiate a possible deal so I can obtain them. I could make it worth their while. :peace:

I could give you the lyrics to prosperous chili. Probably shouldn't post them myself.

Why can't you send the music??

Pm me the lyrics.

leaks come from wales don't they?

Is this taboo, or can we start a discussion on this?

Okay, well no response so I'm gonna ask:? Who is Roscoe P. Coletrain?

From: http://www.chinesedemocracy.com/viewtopic.php?t=10724&start=0

From the illusions era? Not a chance.
"the most pop sounding"? Get a clue.
"Emo" My fucking ass.
Ixnay on the adioray this time around! Knock yourself out chinesedemocracy.com

Now I need to go catch them Duke Boys. c'mon Flash!

EDIT: Link Removed.

It?s not a taboo, just a sin. :hihi:

I admit the 50 odd pages of the Better thread are getting a little messy...

As for the source, I guess it?s the same place where the full 6 minute-plus of IRS (which, like the full Better song, I haven?t heard) came from. So, who the fuck knows. ???

PS: Who is Roscoe P. Coletrain? No idea.

There is no 6 minute IRS.  There are two TWATs, one is around 6:02 and the other is around 6:43.  Going from memory so close enough :)  IRS is 4:16ish.

I'll give $500 to the person for all the songs  :)  Paypal??

Roscoe P. ColetrANE = Sherrif on The Dukes of Hazzard.

John Coletrain = Jazz great.

Roscoe P. Coletrain = A mix of the two?

Obviously Roscoe is just lacky for the true machine behind this leak, which is of course....................................

Boss Hog

Now we're getting somewhere...

Well, maybe...But you?re not going to tell me that the version of the Blues completely played on ukelele and kazoo is a fake too...I already sent that to the radio stations! :nervous:

Ok, so who's Boss Hogg?

Sorrell Burke.  Or Burt Reynolds if you're into the crappy movie version.

-darknemus

on purpose. let us know the songs,get to like them, then when we hear a polished version on the CDCD (see what i did there?) everyone will be creaming in their pants about how great it is.

What other material has been rumored to be out there at this time?

I have seen supposed lyrics for This I love, Prostitute, and Catcher In The Rye Posted.
I also heard people claim to have a song "Prosperous Chili", however it was never backed up with a 10 second clip.
Has anything been posted about "The General" or "Thyme" as of yet?

If anyone is reading claims to have one of these songs I would appreciate a personal pm regarding what you may have.. I think I might be able to make it worth your while to send me what you have, I am tired of all these supposed fake insiders claiming to have a track... if you really do pm me and lets talk.

Let this thread be for discussion of possible other leaked tracks... please don't post lyrics here as the mods will then have to lock the thread because there is no way they can be validated.

hope not..I don't wanna hear the whole album before it comes out.

Ha ha, I see your point, but I am interested in hearing more demos... I am trying whatever I can to pry more loose.  :hihi:

I think that last Better leak was it.

And I hope so too. With the upcoming dates and all the happenings lately.. we are clearly not far off getting the CD. It would be a shame to have it ruined at the last minute. And a shame for those who have worked hard on these songs and given their loyalty for them for years to see the tracks (even just the demos) leaked so close to the release. No more leaks! This last couple of weeks has been great but enough is enough.

i was sent a ... "mastered" version of I.R.S last night. and i gotta say it fucking kicks asssssss, you can hear more drumming. who evers editing these demos rock ?:hihi:

just dont hear them, ass.

In my humble opinion we will have at least one more leak... I've seen at least 3 supposed sets of lyrics to some of the songs posted above posted here.

So, you figure 1 out of 3 isn't bullshit.. which makes me believe someone is hoarding a track.

I will match or better Mr Intensity's offer!


SOLD!

PM me.....

seriously i think thats it. there probably wont be anymore leaks, so that sucks... ?:hihi:

I'm not so sure we're that close to a release, but then I'm a bit of the pessimistic type.

What I find funny is no Madagascar, Chinese D., or The Blues demo leaked....is this because these songs have been done for 2-3 years and the demos were destroyed and only the mastered official album versions exist???

You totally missed the point. Nevermind.

they are called demo's for a reason....they may not be as technically savy as you.....but you know, free will is a bitch, if you don't like the sound quality, don't listen to them.


you sound like a little :crying: :crying: :crying: baby

some people might want to say "thanks" to whoever leaked them...

but what do i know.

Thanks.

Yeah really.

Thanks to whoever started the leaks.  I haven't been this excited in a long time.

 :peace:

First of all, sorry for my bad english.

I friend to me says that noone makes a demo when they already have a recordcontract.
So he says that the leaked demos most be a fake. Is it in that way?

Yeah, seriously, thanks.  What do you expect?  A torrent of the demo disc in FLAC format or something?  (That's probably next week, at this rate)

-darknemus

Totally incorrect.

Artists often record demo tracks by themselves to present "ideas" to the rest of the band.


Only in fantasy worlds does the entire band sit around and jam to create songs on an on-going basis.

sorry, your friend is wrong.

I'd accept Apple Lossless. ? Either way is ok with me :)

I want to know who finally got the balls to sneak a demo disc out of the studio or how this material really was obtained.

And whoever did it would probably rather you didn't find out anytime soon.

Ohh I don't need names.. just a story detailing how Mr. A or Mr. A and Mr. B finally managed to get some Chinese Democracy tracks.. Maybe it was Axl's cable guy or something. :hihi:

I think that is something we'll never know. We should just count our blessings that it actually happened.

Yeah, I really hope we get an announcement soon.. Merck is crazy if he doesn't use this to his advantage. Like they say in Meet the Parents... "you gotta strike while the iron is hot." :peace:

I still believe that Axl did it himself. I think they just leaked the first part of Better and see how people liked it, and then leaked the 2nd part. Don't you think if some random dude did it, he would have leaked the whole song at once?

I hope it was Axl ;)

doubt it.........but I already thought of the possibility of a moodswing in the song, how cool that would be.....and yep.....the song takes a 180 turn...... it's funny.....I thought it was radio friendly but it turns out to be so much more interesting then I already thought it was....It has elements of metal, rock, weird techo tricks, normal rock solo's....etc etc.

Yeah I don't see this as radio friendly at all anymore to be honest.  In fact going from the 2:06 version to the full version it's actually gone down a notch in my book.     I appreciate what Axl is trying to do, push the boundaries etc, but it's not longer the straight forward rocker with a twist that it was. 

Some of the new parts of the song ARE fantastic, it's just a bit disjointed.

 the leaker should trade it to the guy who has the vma rehersals ...  : ok:  :smoking: :beer: :drool:

I don't think Axl would leak his own stuff onto the internet.

What was played at the VMA rehearsals?

Probably the Medley  ;)

I hated that performance.. I wouldn't trade these m+m's I am eating for it.

just keep the blue m&m's...  :hihi:

the rehearsals were probably better...  hard to tell, because some assholes are hoarding it....

If I had an unreleased leak, I think I'd only trade it for another unreleased leak....

That Vma Performance was the best of that awards show... but far from Axl's best.

someone on the NIN Echoing The Sound board claims he has catcher in the rye

http://www.echoingthesound.org/phpbbx/viewtopic.php?t=9350&start=100

at the bottom, "mr gibbons"

quite odd, he claims it hasnt been "officially leaked" yet and he is holding back.

Well, we've solved the mystery.

Trent Reznor must have worked in the same studios as Axl Rose has for Chinese Democracy. Trent Reznor used his connections to leak the music onto the internet. The music originally was posted at Nin.Com and now Trent is letting us all know he is responsible for starting "Chinese Democracy" by putting that picture up on Nin.Com that has "Chinese Democracy" over the wall. :rofl: :rofl:

Wait, how can something be "official", and also be "leaked"? That sounds like a monster oxymoron.

So does Chinese Democracy.

i think whoever is leaking them is the same person who leaked the first irs way back last year

they leak the songs in pieces, because they have a slow internet connection and don't want to clog up there computer for that long. when they released the entire versions of twat and better, they reduced the bitrate so it wouldn't take so long, i remember darkemus or madison saying that whoever they were getting the leaks from had a slow connection.

That makes no sense at all.    Even over dial up we're talking about 10 minutes different between the 2:06 Better and the complete Better.   Or TWAT at 160Kb/s or 192Kb/s.   

That's not the reason at all.   Unless the leaker totally misunderstands it all too.

too funny, :rofl:


anyway the guy on the board deleted the part about Catcher in the Rye.... this is getting weirder and weirder...

Yeah thats bullshit that the rehearsals hasnt been leaked yet, what assholes holding that back.

I assume he means people have it, but it hasn't been widely spread across the internet. "Offically" was probably the wrong word to be used.

Someone brought it up earlier, Axl has been sloppier with these demo's than we ever could have imagined. So who knows what was ripped from DJ booths or where ever else he flashes that thing around.

For the right price I imagine almost any track is obtainable.

my friend here does dj stuff, and he says his system  can put a cd in and burn it to another cd OR rip it to the laptop he has connected. i'm guessing that's what happened and that's how we got these songs. if that's the case, i'd be willing to bet that there's more out there, we just aren't getting it YET.

I say after that mtv report from that new york nightclub that whoever axl sent to the hotel to retrieve the 2 cds threw them into his laptop and copied them before returning. So there is a possibility that there are in fact 20 or so songs out there!

Axl better drop Chinese Democracy soon...

Aren't you the same guy who claims to have a song called 'Prosperous Chili' but you wont let anyone else hear it?

As for more leaks, that DJ said Axl had 2 cd's both containing 10 songs. So if those CD's fall into someone elses hands were in for leaks galore! I'm surprised no one has any sort of recording from the club.

I don't believe he has another gnr track.... if he does he should pm me because I would like to negotiate a deal if he really has an unheard track. :smoking:

I also am working on verifying the lyrics to "Leave Me Alone", "Prostitute", and "This I love." Two people claim to have linear notes and I got lyrics sent to me from one of them.. Im just trying to get the other guy to send me lyrics to see if they match up.

I've had enough for the leaks. I only want this album to come out, so i can listen to it on repeat until i grow old. There's nothing in this world that i wanna do more, than listening to this album..

How about 15 to 20 bucks for the whole CD with the case and booklet?
Wait for the official release.

I would appreciate it if I don't see anyone talking about paying to get leaks from this album. Other posts mentioning such things will be deleted. Do not pay for this kind of stuff. The album will come out eventually.

So, in all honesty if Joe Blow was to have 2 gnr tracks right now and I could obtain them for $50.00 then leak them to you and the whole board for free... you would object to that? I think anyone who is willing to pay to pry some tracks free should be allowed as long as it is affordable/worth it.. to them.

Just my .02

Legally, its a terrible idea to download them too.

But, I am willing to bet top dollar that 99% of this board has dl'd them and listened to them. To some people $100.00 isn't a lot of money or to some people unreleased gnr tracks are worth $100.00.

 :peace:

i wish cd would be out by march... i cant wait any longer..

Fuck, I wish it came out tommorow.  :yes:

People have been saying that for almost 13 years.

if anything else was to leak i would want to hear the demos of CD, maddy or the blues, nothing new.

I would love for CD or The Blues to leak, but I would also want to hear one of the big guns. Well, maybe more than one big gun. :hihi:

if anymore leak,i aint gonna download them.in the long run its spoiling it for myself.i dont care if i have to wait another year for the album as long as when it drops,i wouldnt know all the songs on it already.and dont bash me sayin "what if the album never comes out" coz its gonna come out sooner than you all think. ?:peace:

Cmon, Mr. Rose. You said that after the first song leaked, and when the next one happened, you sent me a PM for the new songs. Dont kid yourself. If a leak happened in five minutes, you would be listening to it in six minutes.

The leaks have to be from somebody at that strip club.  Didn't the leaks only happen a few days after that night? 

Do you think all these leaks might speed up the release process? 

its all about mixing, that is when an album is closest to release, this is when all tracks get leaked. So be happy its coming out very soon.

hold on, what the helll???? did someone just say there were liner notes in somebody's possession?
i dont get it!!!!

god i hope so. i don't really know how much longer i can take all this... the anticipation, the agony of anticipation, which the demos just make worse, because they're so fucking good. ?this chinese democracy thing is making me fucking crazy!!!!!!

*prays*

Downloading, where I live (not America) is legal. Industry got tossed out of court on that one.

think about it.....the story as i can gather it is this: Axl plays the CD for some bum night club owner in NYC, he copies it, releases it on the internet. for this to happen, the night club owner would have to, at 5:30am, see Axl, let him him, get the play CD offer, set up a recording device all the while scheming to release it on the internet because he also happens to be a nut GnR fan. Play the CD, record it, play track 3 over and over as per Axl's request, splice together everything, release it minute by minute, even 30 seconds by 30 seconds, to us losers waiting breathlessly for anything from GnR. the nightclub owner does this for........what? no profit, no name recognition (do we know his name?), with only the on-the-spot decision to spoil Axl's grand scheme to promote CD. All of this happens just a couple days before Axl announces his first concerts since the utter debacle referenced, in part, by my username.....please.

these leaks are one of two things: the most ingenious promotional vehicle ever launched in the internet era. how do you combat an album being leaked too early? leak it your damn self, bit by bit, unfinished demo by unfinished demo. control what gets leaked, what we hear early. do we know these are the "big guns"?

...or...

the record company is saying a big fuck you to Axl and releasing what they've got in their possession. if the album drops, people are gonna buy the CD rather than having shitty demos, they just stick it a bit to Axl for the 13 years and 20 million.

i'm leaning to this being a promotional vehicle. look how everything has exploded in the last week after 3 years of nothingness. every music news agency worth its shit is talking GnR leaks. radio stations are playing the songs as a way of gaining street (internet search ability) cred. until the -nudge, nudge, wink, wink- cease and desist order, after, uhh, the songs are played ad nauseum. (as an aside....if the record company REALLY wanted to stop the leaks, the instant they got word of unauthorized leaks they could send off a canned cease and desist to every major station handing them their ass if they play it)

ladies....this is simply the trailer for the main feature. he's giving us a taste to get us excited.

with everything happening all at once, it's the only logical answer, unless there's something we really don't know.

if this isn't what is going on, what happened is that Axl has been so protective of his baby for so long, that he slips once on his bday, and it gets spilled all over the world. it just doesn't fit.

ps...i've listened to IRS, the little BS clip of CITR and the clip of better that was suuposedly put together by a fan from the actual clip....Better was alright, but gotta hear tghenwhole thing....IRS kicks ass even on demo wuality recording.......but i really don't wanna hear anything else, regardless of who's initiating this little thing.

I think axl or the record company could be behind it..

lets see axl photos all of a sudden, says you'll hear new music this year, mentioned we might just show up to these festivals we are always rumoured to be at, then the leaks, then the show dates announced.. Pretty wild coincidence

I think twat sounds pretty damn studio, axl's voice is done up like in estranged with that eccho effect or whatever the proper terminology is.... Is there any chance at least twat is studio?? Hell no one knows how the songs are really supposed to sound, the lack of drums might be the way it is supposed to be heard..  I think better needs a touch up, but maybe the second half is how it's supposed to be.. ???

Nah i think these are demos, if you listen to the latest release of the entire CD, TWAT is definitly a demo, listen to it with headphones. The drums sound awful, to the point where the high hat is just annoying pounding away in your left ear!

Jonx

I dunno myself, but when I crank this up onmy speakers, and turn up the eq, bass and such, if this is demo, Im like wholly shit, as far as TWAT

I think they are demos, I remember listening to the tiny madagascar clip from the radio promos over and over and was thrilled at how it sounded, man the drums are booming, Axl sounds amazing, the production quality that the tiny clip highlighted was second to none.

that's how I feel.. It has that estranged finish to me, just not with the drums.. ?I was thinking with axl's new bizarre type intros that maybe he's into drum machines or synths over the older stuff we once knew

wasn't the only other versions of maddy from concerts though?? I mean twat isn't just some tune that was being played live and some guy recorded it..

No way, they were studio cuts - uploading now ;)

More like "work in progress".

I definitely can hear real drums, on TWAT,Better and I.R.S (those are all I've hear so far). I generally like those tunes and I wonder why there are complains and fears concerning drum machines. Sure, they are beeing used, but most of the time I can hear a good ol drummer beating his kit. Well, I do not know much other "new" material and I do prefer real drums too. At least those leaks don't make me expect too much drum machine usage.

I doubt those leaks are final versions, although the arrangements sound good to me.

twat sounds way too much like a demo, especially the vocals.

I think they are demo's.

Cause I have my own little home studio and you would be surprised how easy it is to make something sound pretty good. With all the new computer technologies it's alot easier to make something pretty quick that already sounds pretty awesome......

Did anyone hear the november rain demo with the acoustic guitar? Look how much that demo change to the final product that was on the album, could and probaly will be the same with these songs.

The leaks are coming from the GN'R camp. They know that fans are interested in the new music and they'll buy the album. So it doesn't matter if the downloaded some songs or the whole album. Others who aren't GN'R fans can have a chance to know the new band's direction - if they like ot, they may buy the album.

Axl and his people doesn't risk anything by leaking these songs: who is interested in the band will buy CD. Who isn't as interested to go and buy it will download it the day it comes out or the next day. So they won't lose a cent, but the leaking can warn the old fans that Axl's back and can make new fans who wouldn't buy the album since they didn't like the classic Guns N' Roses.

I think "TWAT" and "IRS" sound like demos, but "Better" could be the final version--sounds great, btw.

They are ALL demo's.

Fact.

I can't see how it could be for any other reason than to draw attention to the live shows coincidentally announced at the same time as the leaks.

Arctic Monkey released demos of their songs last year on their own site and now their debut album has become the fastest selling debut rock album of all time in the UK and has shaken up the music industry and how music is marketed. Axl has clearly been paying attention.

I don't claim to know anything about music and how it's mixed but I think these are demo's they just don't have that finished sound to me.

no doubt.   :)

They're demos.  The quality of the tracks combined with the sketchy transitions makes proof enough for me.

What really makes one a demo or not?  If it sounds bad, demo, good final cut?  some of the mix on VR sounded rough, and they were the final cut.  Sometimes artists go for a certain sound.  The end of better sounds final to me.  Parts of TWAT sound pretty close to final.  I think compression of these files during the leak also attributed to shitty quality.  They may be "demo's" now, however, get them mastered, and they could easily be singles. 

I doubt that they're finished.  A demo can be a lot of different things.  Sometimes a demo's a close to finished song that just needs to be mixed and have other post-production stuff done to it, other times it's a really rought cut.  I think all these songs sound close to finished, but the mix could be better on all of them

keep in mind that these demos are anywhere from 8 or 9 years old. they have had plenty of time to improve them. they will sound better on CD.

after all. i really dont think they released these songs to check what the fans / audience think of them.
i mean, come on. after 10 years, like they'll go " oh geez, they dont like the songs ... lets get back to work....."

Dizzy said most of the songs have three or four different version. TWAT is an example of that. So who knows what other versions of Better, IRS or the other songs are like.

there is no doubt in my mind they are demos.

I also think they are demos, however, several other threads have people stating that these leaks and the leaks claiming to be on the way are from the 2 CDs that AXL had with him at a club in NYC.  I'm not saying that this is true, but if so, why in the hell would Axl be traveling around in 2006 with old CD demos to play? 

To be on the safe side and to have a cop-out for possible negative feedback.

Didnt Dizzy Reed say that there were like 3 different versions of each song?


Imagine that.

all the leaks are marketing from the GN'R camp to give some more credibility to the next tour?what do you think

I agree

fo sho.

I think this is a smart move by Axl and his management. It has created a huge buzz.

Would single do better job  ;D

plus, and this is another rub, it's making Axl back into a sympathetic figure. people are actually feeling sorry for him now that his baby got leaked, after all the years of slaving at it, that they're forgetting the shit he's pulled, how long he's made us wait (i'm not bitter, but let's call a spade a spade...). now, in the eyes of some, he's not the guy that ruined the best band since Zeppelin, he's the tragic artist who slaved over his craft for so long, only to have it compromised when the light at the end of the tunnel was getting brighter.

really, it's so obvious that GnR/ Axl are probably shocked people can't see it themselves....wasn't there a comment that they were gonna try some revolutionary marketing techniques? well....here it is. and it's working brilliantly.

If it was management why would they tell radio to stop playing them, and why would they leek demo's? has said before a single would create a buzz

I think they are telling radio to stop playing the songs b/c its the "management" thing to do.  They want to act like these are fan leaks, not official leaks - creates more of a buzz, makes the demos more desirable to listen too. 

A single would be cool, but I dont' think the album is near  completion.  So rather then just hear ONE new song, we are hearing 3-5 more.  This way, when you go to a GNR concert this year, you won't have people sitting down when a CD song comes on...people will actually be singing along.  If they go on tour and have NO new songs to promote, its going to be a pretty lame tour.  The timing got all messed up, so they are leaking demos until the album is ready.  Thats my theory at least.

they tell the radios to stop playing it, after it's been played repeatedly, so a) the fans don't get the idea that a demo is the actual song and b) to perpetuate the idea of Axl being robbed or something. turn the jackass rock star into a sympathetic figure.

They obviously are demos, not finished pieces. The question is, how far along the continuum of completion are they? In other words, demo 1, 2, 3, 10 or 15?

I bet some aren't

Better sounds far superior to TWAT and IRS. THat makes me thinkits the real thing,. Not only does it sound more polished, there subtleties in terms of layering, vocal double ups/harmonies and other little flourishes that the other 2 dont have

It's not a coincidence that the first-ever leaks and the tour are announced within days of each other. Think about the probability of this. "Unauthorized" leaks happening at precisely the same time as a tour that has at LEAST several weeks of planning behind it. No way. We're hearing what we're intended to hear.

I can see that you are new to the forum.  Please read the sticky topics posted near the top of the page.  We've had a problem with the same topics being started multiple times in the past couple of weeks.  So, before you post a new thread, please use the search function.   :)

Well some singers vocal double ups on demos,I think that they are demos because the vocals aren't mixed right :smoking:

TWAT and IRS are demos for sure.

Better probably is, but it sounds pretty good... could be the final product.

Remember Axl said that Oh My God was a demo (on end of days st) and that track sounds fantastic compaired to IRS and TWAT.

Yeah I agree that Better does sound almost finished,it's an awesome song :peace:

Yes it is!  The only thing I'd change in better is after that metal part (then the computer sounding guitar) it rushes right into "All that I wanted was", IMO it should just go into the "now I know you better..." part then back into that beautiful solo.

the drums sound to bad to be anything else but demos IMO

The Robin solo in Better changes a little and does a duet with Axl singin some "na na na" (or something like that). The solo is still in the center channel. Once Axl starts to sing the lyrics again, the solo suddenly goes to the right channel. The transition is poor and the mix in this part is not so good, because everything sounds like a mess - I mean, it's beautiful, but it's not mixed right.

So, I'm pretty sure it's a demo. All of them, in fact.

You got a great ear my friend! :)

i don't know man if twat is a demo i am really scared of what would be in CD.i mean  the demo is so rich it has everything:electric guitars ,acoustic guitars ,electronic bits and pieces ,background vocals ,a little bit of orchestration just about everything-i just think it needs to be properly mixed.

BTW i played it to a friend of mine who doesn't like GnR that much and just when i was ready to hear all the bashing he told me that he thinks twat is a ready song-and he wishes axl would release it as it is and he wouldn't overload the final version :beer:

Didn't the people that leaked these songs  say they were demos ??  Merck told some radio stations  that they were demos. I don't think he would lie about this because it would make Axl look like an idiot if the real singles he sends to the stations  end up being exactly the same.  Besides  you can just tell they are demos by listening to them , the mixing
is awful ( especially Better) .    Axl is a perfectionist     the UYI albums were overproduced  and Axl said they rushed it.  If that was rushed  and it sounded the way it did    do you really think 13 yrs  of work  is going to sound this shitty??   Stop speculating  and just wait till this thing comes out if it ever does.   

seems like everything with axl was rushed.. I had mentioned some of them not being demos because I thought they sounded really high quality plus I never knew what sounds this new gnr was suppose to have with synths or drum machines or anything else.. I guess there are many versions of each floating around, wonder when these were recorded is this the first or 5th versions of better irs or twat.?

IRS and TWAT are demos ..no doubt

what about the drums i there? Is that a drummachine the whole time ??????So where's Brain of Mr. Freese.... or whoever will be on the final product

I think they gave us "unfinished" versions for a reason..........

But BETTER... i don't know.. that one sounds way more complete than the other two do not you thinK

i think T.W.A.T is the best of the lot so far. the guitaring is great, so trippy.....i love trippy wah solos.

$13 million spent on producing this thing.

These are obviously demos.

I am listening to Don't Damn Me from the 'Axl's Advanced Copy' Demo disc for the first time.  I started to listen to the old demo's to compare how they sound as demos compared to the finished copy.  That being said - I love don't damn me on the album, but the demo doesn't do it any justice.  If I had heard the Demo version first I would have thought, it wasn't a bad song, but wouldn't love it as much as I do now.

Anyway - I guess my point is. . . . .Keep the faith, in Axls Music creations I trust.

my 2 cents, for what it's worth,

-illusionone

Good point.  Although I already like the demo's, so I guess they can only get better.

I actually love the demos myself. 

Better seems to be my favorite - I love how it starts off soft and slams into the song heavy, then goes out soft again.  I also love the short segment of screaming, I bet when they make the transition seamless, the song will fuckin rock.

IRS took me awhile to like, but after listening to it for a bit, I love it

T.W.A.T  - What can I say - he did it again - I love it

Axl has put 3 epic songs (that we know of) on Chinese Democracy, The Blues, Madagascar and T.W.A.T (Assuming these 3 make the record)  and everyone of them is a hit min my book.

-illusionone

you forgot "this i love"

oh yeah, and don't forget general and thyme...EPICS  :hihi:

sometimes when you haven't her new music in 15 years from your favorite band you tend to over-rate what you heard

and are you claiming to have heard these?

Does anybody find it odd that Axl's vocals on Better have clearly been worked on and fine tuned whilst on CITR and TWAT they really sound like he just put them down and not much as been done with them? Like Better is pretty much a finished product whilst the others are just demos?

Do you think there have been too many leaks now for this to be intentional?

Perhaps with say CITR it may not be on the first album as someone has said, so the GN'R camp have no problem leaking it to get some feedback on how the fans like the sound and get some feedback on it? Just a thought.

Good post. I never thought the leaks were intentional to begin with. You're right, Better is more of a 'finished product' than the others. But CITR seems to be from 1999-2000. Hell, maybe even a little earlier. Question: Could this be Josh Freese on drums?

Could well be. Someone commented it could even be a track that Brian May did with them. It's really impossible with GN'R to tell.. they are going to need full credits detailed for each song in the booklet  :hihi:

Definitely. The booklet might have to be like a telephone book. When you go to the store to buy CD, there's a clerk standing by the door handing them out. :hihi:

i was wondering why axl has not seid anything about the leaks. The first IRS leak was only aired once. and shut off. now the demos where played on satilite radio and no one seid anything. these demos leak out all over the internet and no one has done anything. other then say dont host the files bla bla bla. but if i was axl i would have seid something.

Does anyone else think that these demos are intentional.

and if there not intentional it sounds like some guy bootleged IRS by standing out side of a door or window with a mic. if the demos pu on the "trunk cd" where worth listening to by axl youed think with his perfectionist personality he would not want anyone listening to a screatchy version of a song. im just wondering how some one would come across new guns material. 

i remember one month before AFD was released all the songs were leaked onto the internet, and it was all WAV files and my connection was 28.800 bps so i had to wait for it to hit the stores... :-\

Thats the most insane post I've seen yet. Thats saying alot.

good, ol' times.

Thank god for technology

Maybe in some parallel universe. But not on our planet.

 Hi everyone, sorry if this rumour has been mentioned already - but I was surprised not to find it anywhere else on the board. (If so, feel free to delete)......


What strikes me is that everyone here seems to be interpreting the leaked tracks and the upcoming concerts in totally the wrong way. I am a massive fan, and I know I'll probably get slagged off for saying this, but during the last tour and concerts, even a lot of the old hardcore fans were......bored. The same old songs. Again. We were hungry for new stuff, not some half-hearted, by numbers tread through the same old routine.

So now that these new dates have been announced, this negative so-what attitude of a lot of the fans is a big problem - especially on top of no-shows, etc.

So it seems that the 'leaking' of the new stuff is all about promoting the live-dates during the summer, and should not be taken as a sign that Chinese Democracy will be released any time soon.

Depressing, but perhaps true....What do you think?

I think the person is very wrong.

Everything we've seen, so far, is in preparation for the release of CD.  Every piece of credible info points in that direction.  Barring some unforsee catastrophie, we will see CD this year...and probably sooner rather than later  I think you can count on it.

I understand, completely, not wanting to get your hopes up.  But, for one, the leaks were not intentional.  Management did not leak the material.  That is 100% for sure.  The leaks were not promotion for anything.  They were, it appears, an expected (but not necessarily wanted) side effect of "something else" (and what that "something else" is, I have no idea).

your exactly right.but its a no win situation.i dont want anymore leaks but like ive said in other posts,im too weak in the will power to not download anymore leaks.so as a way of frustrating my confusion i say "im not downloading anymore leaks".but what i really mean is "please dont leak anymore songs coz i cant help my self but download em,and this isnt the way i want to hear CHINESE DEMOCRACY" :peace:

EDIT:and im pretty sure i dont only speak for myself :peace:

i know it's impossible to speculate when it comes to axl rose but i heard that he told someone backstage that he wasn't planning this song for chinese democracy? can this be verified in any way? he could change his mind though. regardless, he knows the best for chinese democracy, and CITR is, even though heard just as a demo yet, one of the best songs i have ever heard, period. : ok:

From Where did you heard it?

i read it actually, i don't remember if it was here or on mygnr.com, regardless you should take it with a grain of salt. the funny thing is, appearently he spoke to madison from mygnr.com after a show and told her it would be the second single for the album. i don't know who or what to believe, seems gnr fans are lying their asses off for attention these days. sad to see.:no:

I think on mygnrforum.

The thing is, noone can remember if he said it WOULD be on CD or if it WOULDN'T be on CD....

I seem to remember him saying it WOULD be on CD...but the comments were posted 4 years ago after, I think, MSG.  I will admit I could very well me misremembering.

I agree that CITR has the most potential of all of the Demos we have heard so far. It is probably the roughest (and I would guess oldest) of the demo's, but stood out for me as soon as I heard it.
I would hope that this is on Chinese Democracy, unless it is slated for the 2nd album (which I better be able to hear before my Grandson has to change me every hour on the hour)

Hahhaha sounds great :hihi: I didnt know that they leaked too.

AFD??

28.8??

1987??

In 1987 downloading an album from the internet would have been akin to my being able to go back to 1987 in my retrofited Time Machine Trans AM (figured I'd leave the DeLorean out of this) today. Also the best you would have done in 1987 would have been 9660 baud (and that would have been a stretch)

Even downloading UYI from the internet in 1991 would have been "nearly" imposible.

Um...no. ?Just no.

That would have been June 1987. ?Baud rate would have been around 2400 to 9600 (and the 9600 baud modem would have run you about a grand in '87....84 was when the tech first hit to allow baud rates that high).

14.4 modems (1/2 the speed you claim) were not released until 1991. ?28.8 modems (the speed you claim) were not released until 1994.

In addition, the whole the internet, as we know it, didn't really "exist". ?Sure, the network existed, but the content was pretty much non existant and public "dial in" points were few, far between, and generally reserved for educational institutions (like universities).? ?Sure, there were BBS out there...but not with nearly the storage capacity to hold all the album tracks in .wav format.

Add to that that CD-ROM drives were not widely commercially available in 1987. Yellowbook standard was approved in '85, and production on "real" CD-ROM drives didn't begin, in earnest, until late '88 and early '89..and they were prohibitively expensive. ?So you couldn't "encode" a wav directly from a CD (not to mention the software to do so didn't exist).

So it had to come from a cassette and a crappy PC mic (since sound cards didn't have "line in"...even the Roland cards only had Midi in...). ?Creating a complete set of .wav files for all tracks, from a cassette, would have used more hard drive memory than was currently available to consumers. ?The average drive size at the time would have been about 40 megs (yes MEGS).

In addition, the encoding process, that preserved any degree of clarity, would have bogged down the 8088 or 286 or VERY expensive 386 processor, and tiny 1 to 2 megs or ram.

And we'll end with the fact that, at the end of all this, you're left with .wav files that you can't fit on your PC, can't use anywhere but on your PC, with crappy speakers (No CD burners back then, remember?) and can't transport anywhere.

In short, from a technology standpoint...no. Just...no.

doesn't anyone else find it strange that axl mentioned to rolling stone that some of his favourite songs off CD were "better", "there was a time" and "the blues", right before these songs leaked? and not only that, we have already heard "the blues" in a live version. now, i don't wanna buy into the conspiracy theories about management leaking the songs, but do you think that axl knew the songs were out there so he mentioned the ones he already knew people would hear, or do you think that out of all the songs he has recorded, those three were simply among his favourites? you never know with axl so i would like to hear some opinions.

The blues wasn't leaked :P

wow, great point, thanx for adding some new information to the discussion : ok: ::)

he knew Chuck Norris was gonna leak them so yea ....

I would say Axl's favs and the leaks are unrelated. However, a song he likes would be more often touched-up and edited, probably would have more chances of getting stolen/leaked.

I would bet that Axl likes TWAT most among the songs in our hands right now.

Did You Know: The opening scene of "Saving Private Ryan" is loosely based on a game of dodgeball Chuck Norris played in second grade.

Sorry, I had to say it. I'll get back on topic.

shut up it was david hasselhoff ! i've asked k.i.t.t. and pam anderson and they confirmed it... :peace:
speaking cars and silicon breast wouldnt lie :hihi:

what the fuck does this have to do with anything?
enough with the off-topic bullshit.

CC i think you're right about that but it still strikes me as odd, and bothers me a bit. also that CITR possibly isn't slated for CD, how would that song be that easy accessable?

axl is a smart guy, he was aware that those songs he played at the nude club might get leaked on the internet, so he just said those were his faves, in order not to give too much information about CD.... that's what i think..

someone has the whole album and after that korn interview and the strip club cd-play they leaked axl favorites (as an alibi that the cd could be ripped in that club)...thats so clear....what is really weird is the fact that a german girl has leaked citr.....we never heard about a girl with demos in the german community

i've been thinking that myself.
wouldn't be impossible at all.

I'd have to agree with that.  I had heard from some people that those were Norris' favorite tracks.  We all know that you don't disagree with Walker Texas Ranger.  I'm thinking that Axl mentioned those tracks as to not create tension with Norris and avoid a coma inducing roundhouse kick to his adams apple.  Just my two cents  :D

what's with the chuck norris nonsense?
would you like it if i went all macgyver on you in your threads?

the myth of axl rose and chinese democracy is so big that it might just be that he mentioned those songs just because it was those songs he played at the club. very much possible, but of course i could be wrong. if there's one thing being a gnr fan has taught me, it's to never try to predict axl rose.:hihi:

yeah, maybe it was him (http://www.cinestese.unisinos.br/_imagens/outrasmidias/macgyver37.jpg)
but in my opinion it was him
(http://www.carlwinslow.com/images/urkel%20crime%20photo.jpg)

Brownstone...explain a bit more for me on this one....why do u think Axl said those were his favorites because he thought they'd leak?  What difference does it make?  Not saying your theory is wrong, just having a hard time understanding any corelation between the two. 

Alot of work went into Better; I would imagine that it was closer to his heart b/c of the effort put into it. Plus musicians like to play songs where there are wild changes throughout; Better definately falls into that category.

well, he knew there might be a possibillity that those two or three songs might get leaked, so he said that those songs where his favourite in order not to give too many informations about CD. ?maybe his favourite song is a songtitle we never heard about but didnt want to make it public. so he just said "yea better and twat are my faves"... ? know what i mean?

don't know if this is true or makes any sense, but it might...

Well I really don't see how you can say, "Axl said these were his fav's becasue they were out there and we may hear them, but, I'm not into the conspiracy theories." :-\

Either Axl was in on it or he wasn't but why name the blues? why not IRS? if he was in on it I mean. He knew IRS was out already, he mustve known, and by the same turn he must've known that a cleaner version would eventually work it's way into public hands.

And by the same token if you are saying he only named tracks that may leak, then aren't you also insinuating that we should expect The Blues to surface? And where does CITR fit in?

In short I don't think that his stement had anything to do with what he felt may or maynot leak. He's been saying There Was a Time was a favorite of his for a while. and Blues has had very positive reviews, so it's clear that that song could be a favorite of his, Better was named for the first time in that interview I believe. Who knows man ??? I'm sure he has a regular rotation of his "Favorites" I'm not a bellevier in the conspiracy theories :no:

is that a "better" reply? :peace:

I think it's possible Axl doesn't even know that 4 songs were leaked.

of course he does. merck knows and i'd guess he informed him about that...

thanks for clarifying brownstone...i gotcha
it's possible....certainly all we can ever do is speculate as fellow gunners with limited info

jepp, thats true

I guess you could say we've heard CD's 'Big Guns' now though, if Axl's 3 fav songs off CD are 3 songs we have heard.

Dont think so bud. Don't think we've heard shit yet!  : ok:

Do you think all four leaked songs are demo's...? ?:confused:

Is there no chance they could have been recorded to tape, from the finished versions, and then tranfered to CD/MP3 - which would account for their 'demo' like sound...?

CITR, IRS and Better all sound pretty good to me...

I'm 90% sure they are demo's... but who knows.

The songs were obviously leaked by someone with the copyrights.

Otherwise people couldn't just play IRS on Sirus radio...

It's funny... no announcement and somehow we can't mention a download on here. I've got all 4  people  :beer:

Yes. Almost everyone agrees that this was a great PR-move from gnr-camp. The buzz is now greater than ever and I hope this week will bring more clarity!
Cheers!  :smoking:

I Still maintain that these leaks were Not intentional.  These demos are probably 1-5 years old i'm guessing. still have no idea who got a hold of them however....

there is infinant posibilitys. in my opinion. the leaks where leaked by axl him self. build hype, suspence. why not. just a few demos of songs. hes prolly got them on CD finished and thought if i leak the demo it doesnt ruin the song cause that havent heard the finished CD version. but if it wasnt leaked by axl him self i think its up to some one who hacked on to a computer at his studio or where ever. it seems nearly imposible that axl even let a demo CD out of his sight. and the CD's hes takeing around now are finished versions of the songs. the leaks are unfinished and there are good but there not to point of great yet but have infinant potential. i think he leaked them now to shack shit up it the GNR world.

This probably isn't earth-shattering to most of you, but as I was thinking about it, I have now convinced myself that the leaks (minus CITR) were completely intentional by Axl and crew.  I came to this REVELATION  ;D when I thought how ironic it was that the only new songs that were played were the ones that leaked.

However, it leads me to the next question, a very "Chicken or the egg" scenario:   Do they only play the leaks at the concerts because they WERE leaked, or did they LEAK those songs because these were the ones they wanted to play during the upcoming tour????

I believe it is the latter - that they intentionally leaked those songs, because they were the ones that they wanted everyone to hear while on the upcoming tour.  Since that is the case, I don't anticipate hearing CITR or any other unknown (as of yet) song during the remaining dates, until the album is released.

They were intentionally leaked because the shows are being recorded for future use. It looks and sounds better to see the crowd singing along and reacting to the songs instead of just standing there with a glazed over look on their faces.

Amazing that we are still no closer to solving this mystery. Only in the world of G and R. At this point, I am actually leaning in the other direction: they are only playing these songs because they were leaked. So they figure they're already out there in studio form, playing 'em live doesn't really change anything. Plus it adds an extra dimension to differentiate this tour from 2002.

I dont think they were intentionally leaked at all...but what i do understand is these were songs recorded in 2001 or around that time...so the songs are old in terms of the new gn'r. i think that cd's 2 and 3 of the three cd's that are supposedly mostly recorded will be the songs that will be from the real gn'r (2006) and not by the band in its transition period, recorded or written by ex-members and some of the new band. my guess is they are playing irs and better and twat because these songs are already out there. citr is out there but it must be special ie a single cause thats the one they havent played live, and maybe twat also since its only been played in nyc.

Johnny,

I heard TWAT in NYC, however, I think they have played it 1-2 more times since new york

umm.. twat was only played once on the 12th in nyc hammerstein

Umm...no.

It was played in Madrid as well.

really? ugh how did i miss that.

alright sorry then..


any audio of it?

Don't know  if it's been posted, but...

Merck interview from mygnrforum (http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?showtopic=74315):

My anger around the recent leaks has more to do with people
hearing something that is not finished and therefore does not represent what the
artist intended the audience to hear.

I personally can't believe how anyone believes the leaks were intentional.

Its hard to say, these are troubled times for the music industry...... they are trying new and inventive ways to promote their artists so its certainly possible that these were put out their intentionally. Axl said in the Trunk interview that he hadnt heard the leaks, and didnt really know anything about them......... yet he had obviously had the band rehearsing them at least 4 or 5 weeks before that interview took place. I dunno, i doubt they were leaked intentionally but its certainly possible!

Jonx

The only thing I don't get is that the band is pretty much playing the leaks note for note in concert...hence why I find it hard to believe the tracks are unfinished.

To say that the leaks were not intentional is imbecile and for Axl to deny that he  has heard them is insulting and reminds one of how he alleged a certain conversation with Slash (that did not occur). The leaks were made in front of a mini tour during which the new  songs are being promoted in front of the album to come out in the Fall. To not recognize how the pieces fit makes no sense.

Yes, it's imbecile to think that an artist would not want us listening to an inferior version of their work.  ::)

How about this, if the leaks were intentional then why are IRS and specially TWAT so badly produced?

Because no matter what the response is they will always be able to say that they're still a work in progress  ;D

Yeah, like how Oh My God was a real song, and he even discussed it on MTV. When it got panned by fans and the media, it quickly was referred to as a demo. :hihi:

Managment have told us that Better, IRS, TWAT, and Catcher are all studio demo's.

Do you guys think that the final cuts of these songs, which are almost deffinetly done already... are going to be much different than these demo's??

I cant see too much alterting being done, besides from Catcher--which incidently leaked from a different source than the other three ;D


what do you guys think?

At this point, it's more like comparing the demos to the live versions.

TWAT has atleast a new intro, kinda cool. Yet I missed Axl's I would do anything for you -wail in the Hammersmith boot, hopefully it'll be in the studio version.
The live Better sounds great during the 'Now I know you better' parts, really groovy.
IRS has been wholly improved with more guitar, starts out faster.

So there be differences. Also, there's no telling how old the demos are; they could also be scrapped mixes.

They've grafted Robin's "main" solo from IRS '99 (the one that was replaced by Bucket's shred solo) into the song after one of the choruses.

SG

if you listen to catcher ..... they not remastered ... but you don't put an orchestra and let brian may play on it ...if it i a demo .....so .... i think its real version but with a clenar sound when (if) they a released ...... i dont think axl like people when they say it is a demo and not the finishead prodect ... ... and i wonder one more think .. who had said that they are demos? ... sorce please....

axl said it, merck said it..

all wehn they leaked..

apparently management was upset because they were studio demo's and that its not what they wanted to public to hear..

thats what merck said, take his word for it or not.  ;)

Merck.

"My anger around the recent leaks has more to do with people
hearing something that is not finished and therefore does not represent what the
artist intended the audience to hear."

can someone give a link to where the manegentmen says its demos
 .. and when axl say so?

Demo = Unfinished song. Regardless if Brian May plays guitar and the Red Army choir do the backing vocals, it could still be a demo. They could still tinker with the mix and record/discard parts.

Well since they are DEMOS yes the final/released versions will sound different. All instruments will be clearly, there will probably be alot more orchestra on alot of the songs, there will actually be a real drummer on the songs and not just a drum machine and so on . . . . .

I really think "Catcher" is a nearly finished mix from an analog source. (i.e. it just hasn't been mastered.) And that it could be the most "finished" of all of the leaks.

My reasons:

1) Backing vocals - IRS has none, Better has very little, and TWAT does. Usually backing vocals are one of the last things added to a mix.

2) Layering - There's all kinds of vocal and musicial layering going on in that song - something that the other demos don't really have much of. Not saying there's none, but there's not much.

3) Fade-out - It ends in a fade out, the others end like most demos do - abruptly. "Catcher" has such a gradual fade-out, that it sounds ready for an album.

"Catcher" could be from the scrapped/finished 1998-1999 version of the album for all we know, and someone has a pre-master copy of it.

Wait until the CD comes out, then you can compare to your hearts content!!

Yes, I would guess that Catcher in the Rye is a pre-mastered version of the song intended to be on the album that was to be released in '99-'00. That along with the recent leaks of IRS and TWAT from that same era are the only songs we have in any sort of finalized form. It seems like all that was left was mastering. All 3 are cool. I wish they would have released the album back then and we had an album with 'Better' etc to look forward to this year. I also really hope that that whole thing from '99 leaks. That stuff could prove to be more interesting that the final album that may or may not get released this year.

The live IRS sounds a lot like a mix between the both versions we have. It doesn't have the drum machine in the slow parts, it has Robin's solo and guitar riff at the ending (I only could listen to that on Novarock boot), just like the '99 version. But it has Bucket/Ron fast solo, like the newer one.

The fade-out is not right, it's too fast for a professional work.

Im sorry guys, but who the hell would know?

At this point all your doing is speculating.

Your mom told 'em.


The fade-out is not complete in Catcher.  There could be more, I mean, the tape is cut off... Catcher is layered, you can tell.  It just needs mastering....that demo seems like a work in progress at the time.

during the Eddie Trunk interview, they were talking about CITR and Brian May being on it. he said he didn't know if Brian May's part will be on the finished verison and then stated that it was a demo. also, i think the leaker did that fade-out, because it's not a clean fade. at the very end you hear a lead vocal ad-lib cut off in midstream. listen real close to the cut at the end. definately not a pro job, even for a demo.

judging from the way they play live i think irs and there was a time will be different. obviously if they are all demos they will be a little different when the album is actually released. i cant wait to hear studio versions of madagascar, the blues, and chinese democracy. even thos songs have changed since the 2002 tour

of all the leaks, Better sounds the most complete

I do wonder how different the album version will be of that song as its worlds apart from the other demos which are fairly rough - so much so infact, that I wondered at the time if we had a leak of the first single

the mastering and overall sheen will of course be noticable, other than that, perhaps more live sounding drums and more synth/orchestration

yep also the live version has something that the 99 version has but the other version hasnt
an organ/synth riff by dizzy
you can hear it live and in the 99 version but not in the first version 

I think Catcher sounds the least polished of them all, although it may have something to do with the poor quality of the recording that we have. IRS sounds almost complete, Better is probably a raw version (I get the feeling we'll have more guitar work added before the solo with that weird techno-spiral noise midway through), etc.

Didn't notice this Dizzy's keyboard riff on IRS live, only Pittman's fx and orchestra... But yeah, the '99 version has pretty much those layers that the other demo don't.

No, it's pretty much the other way around. IRS doesn't sound complete at all, while Better is a bit far from raw than you think. BurningHills said pretty much it all.

Listen to the Boston-promo, that was studio quality  :yes:

can you post a link or something to the promo?