Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Just watched SCOM from last night.    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcJRSIFEMPE
I find Axl sings so well.  Every song is sung well still.  He can hit every note!  I wonder if it is an effort issue, age issue, or throat issue as to why he doesn't do more rasp like he did 3 years ago.  Regardless, I wanted to hear everyone's honest feedback.  Everyone has a right to an opinion!  Cannot wait for Duff to join them.

Could probably save some bullets if he toured less as well, but that seems to be the only thing keeping them going of late.
Maybe he feels more comfortable singing live where imperfections aren?t as glaring, and are softened by blaring guitars, crowd noise etc.

See, I would almost think the other way.  He's better served in a controlled studio environment with retakes and assorted studio magic.

Look at 'Better'.  That sounds like Axl Rose.  On the record, anyway.  Live, it doesn't sound like that.

We've all done our "best Axl" for years as we sang along in our cars.  And let's face it, it hurts your throat.

I just don't know why some have to go so overboard.  They get their backs right up when then smell a "hater" and go so over the top they lose any credibility.

So whenever anyone wants to tell me that he's "better than ever!", I roll my eyes.  When someone tells me they hear no difference between now and past tours, I laugh at them outright.

If you want to defend your guy, fine.  But let's keep it real world.  There are legit defenses you can make without decending into ridiculousness.

But its a pretty drastic departure from the voice that made him famous and what people expect from Axl Rose.

You just about never hear a bad word about his voice in 1993.  And I'd agree, all the boots I have from that year are solid.  And they don't hold a candle to what we hear today.

With the shows today, I think they have trouble passing the, what I refer to as, the "what the hell happened here?" test.  Fan, non-fan, or even indifferent...people know what Axl Rose sounds like.  And if you played them a recent show, the most likely thing you would hear is some variation of "what the hell happened here?"

I beg to differ.  I know plenty of people that found his voice offputting back in the day.  I know plenty of people who found his voice abrasive and unpleasant to listen to.

Ali

I don?t doubt that you prefer Axl?s voice today over ?92, and respect that, but personally I have never met a fan of Guns N? Roses that was put off by Axl?s voice back then.
I know plenty of people that never liked his voice, but they by default aren?t fans of GN'R. I know plenty of people(most, if not all) who loved his voice back then, and now find him unlistenable.
I?ve never met anyone who prefers his voice today over yesteryears(excluding yourself of course!).

Its hard to disprove anecdotal stories, so my coming back and telling you I have found the exact opposite really gets us nowhere.

And I think most objective third parties would not be blind to the fact that both of us seem to run into people that amplify our established positions.

Ali,
Did you see Guns N roses in 1992?  Not meaning I think you did or did not.  I have no idea.  Just curious, because I cannot for the life of me imagine playing Axl singing 2014 for someone and playing 1992 Paris and hearing them say today is better.  Had Axl sung like this then, he would not be famous.  I saw them in 1992 and saw them in 2011 and 2012.  Axl was brilliant all 3 times, but 1992, the experience was the greatest show on earth.  Today, it is not the Greatest Show on Earth in the Public.  No comparison....

Today, they are more of a retro showcase of what once was.  I completely respect your opinion, but are you willing to say Axl would have still been the greatest rock show on earth with today's voice.  i think people would potentially not even listen to appetite if he sang Paradise City the way he did last night.   It is missing some power ...big time. 

ive checked videos of the show,i think Axl is improving his voice he sing civil war with rasp in some parts,but he is far from what i saw in 2010.I would love to know wtf happens with his voice,maybe he blow it he has been in the road since 2008 and his way of sing is hard for the troath,i think we all have tried to sound like axl sometimes ;D but........i dont know.

I've seen the band in 2010, 2011 and 2014, and trust me he never had a better voice than last night. Youtube is no parameter at all.

I've seen the band in 2010, 2011 and 2014, and trust me he never had a better voice than last night. Youtube is no parameter at all.

where exactly is that moment?

its and old discusion we are in 2014,magic its not longer real,the cameras dont steal your soul,and with youtube you can see and watch how good axl sound in 2006 and 2010 and how is sounding in 2011-2014.

Hahahaha

How some of these arguments are made with a straight face, I'll never know.

Hahahaha

How some of these arguments are made with a straight face, I'll never know.

He sings good on these, not as good as 2006 or 2010 though.
 But if you seriously compare these to 22 years ago, then you're just delusional

Straight face? what happens to axl voice? is the only who cant be capture on youtube? ive seen tons of bootlegs of iron maiden,metallica,acdc,black sabbath and you can see when they fuck up.But here there are some guys that belive in witchery? LOL and you tell me with a straight face,i put some irony btw.

Youtube seemed to become unreliable on 10.2.2011.  That's when you can trace back to when you have to start believing in ghosts in the machine.

Go to any other band's forum and post a clip of that band.

There is zero discussion how Youtube is unreliable, can't be trusted, and if you weren't in the building that night, you can just fuck right off.

Youtube seemed to become unreliable on 10.2.2011.  That's when you can trace back to when you have to start believing in ghosts in the machine.

I don't agree that YouTube is "no" parameter at all.  But, at the same time, the opinions of those in attendance should not be dismissed.  That doesn't happen here as much, but it does happen...elsewhere.

Ali

I think we all know that rasp came so much more naturally in 2010.

Question, is rasp everything? Do you pay to hear rasp? I don't think many songs have rasp on the album release. Appetite is a clean for a start.

That's what it boils down too. I listen to that 2014 shakler's and to me Axl Rose is still worth me paying out for. The songs are still worth it.

To the guy at the mallorca show... You realised you witnessed the longest show on that tour and you had izzy? You got your money worth there.

Also, the setlists from 2011 are far longer and better than 2010. So for me the overall show is better since  2011. However, I agree the voice isn't.

Also, I'm pretty die hard and like to get down the front, and if im honest I can hardly hear Axl half of the time anyway, but I feel i'm actually apart of the show than when i'm stood further back.

Question, is rasp everything? Do you pay to hear rasp? I don't think many songs have rasp on the album release. Appetite is a clean for a start.

That's what it boils down too. I listen to that 2014 shakler's and to me Axl Rose is still worth me paying out for. The songs are still worth it.

There's a BIG diference of youtube and live. I was there the other night and is allways like that.
Youtube is not a parameter to compare.

There's NO difference.

The only difference is that you're in the middle of a screaming crowd, jumpin, drinkin, watching at the lights, at the pyros etc. You're not focused only on the voice. That's it.

Rasp is not everything, I personally love clean voice. But to Axl is everything, it's his trademark. His clean voice doesn't sound good, it's frail, weak....It sounds like he's trying to put a lot of energy in but he just can't. Hope he will get better, I want to hear him screaming like a god again  ;D

There's NO difference.

The only difference is that you're in the middle of a screaming crowd, jumpin, drinkin, watching at the lights, at the pyros etc. You're not focused only on the voice. That's it.

Rasp is not everything, I personally love clean voice. But to Axl is everything, it's his trademark. His clean voice doesn't sound good, it's frail, weak....It sounds like he's trying to put a lot of energy in but he just can't. Hope he will get better, I want to hear him screaming like a god again  ;D

The problem is one of credibility.  

No one said shit about Youtube's supposed unreliability when he sounded great.  Along the same lines, no one has ever posted a clip of him sounding great, and then throwing in that its that pesky unreliable Youtube, so who knows if its accurate?  These things simply don't happen.  Youtube gets called into question when you have to put lipstick on a pig.

And yes, that last bit is most people's whole problem.  It does sound weak.  What we hear these days is barely Axl Rose.  And it sounds like a guy trying to do an Axl Rose performance, but can't any longer.

I'll also have to disagree on your assessment of his clean voice.

AXl has been noted to be one of the best if not the best of the 80's singers by his highly regarded vocal coach..

AXl has been noted to be one of the best if not the best of the 80's singers by his highly regarded vocal coach..

The problem is one of credibility.  

No one said shit about Youtube's supposed unreliability when he sounded great.  Along the same lines, no one has ever posted a clip of him sounding great, and then throwing in that its that pesky unreliable Youtube, so who knows if its accurate?  These things simply don't happen.  Youtube gets called into question when you have to put lipstick on a pig.

And yes, that last bit is most people's whole problem.  It does sound weak.  What we hear these days is barely Axl Rose.  And it sounds like a guy trying to do an Axl Rose performance, but can't any longer.

Straight face? what happens to axl voice? is the only who cant be capture on youtube? ive seen tons of bootlegs of iron maiden,metallica,acdc,black sabbath and you can see when they fuck up.But here there are some guys that belive in witchery? LOL and you tell me with a straight face,i put some irony btw.

Compare 2010 shacklers revenge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQpk2_Xzb-8

with 2014 shacklers revenge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujr0zAEGTwI


dont you miss something?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPzsB0iLJ4M

here is the best footage of the other night so far... camera doesnt move

axl really sounds good on some of these... so I get why the defense team is out in full effect... he really killed iTs So Easy

but coming here and stating that he is better today than a few years ago... what are you trying to prove?

Generation X.............are you possesed? 

And btw,of course when he was sounding great no one said its becuase of youtube.LOL.when i saw gnr in 2010 they sounded great in the concert,i remember stand quiet in roquet queen because was the song i was most looking for,and fuck yes,there was rasp an stronge voice,and so did in youtbe.So fuck to the mistery of youtube.If he is not sounding good its here,youtube and in the whole plante

Its a putting toothpaste back in the tube type of situation.

Had he come up and established his entire career singing that way, it would be more acceptable.  But its not the voice he used coming up and made him a star.  So when people are raised on that for over 20 years, and then you hear him now, there is a real feeling that something has gone terribly wrong.

Axl was not a good vocalist in the traditional sense.  But his delivery was unique and what people expect from Axl Rose.  I would put Eddie Vedder in the same category.  Hardly a classically trained vocalist, but he has a sound you know and come to like.  So if you went to a Pearl Jam concert, and he is suddenly singing in some half ass falsetto, people are going to point it out and likely going to think something is wrong.

Not possessed, but I will admit to having a hell of a time following you here.  Haha.

Sometimes it seems like you agree with me, other times it seems you are in opposition to what I'm saying.  Sometimes, within the same post.

The simplest way to put what I think is that your ears don't lie.  So when you play the clip from 2006 and it sounds good, its because it does.  When you play one from 2011 onwards and it doesn't sounds as good, its because it doesn't.  That's the bottom line.  No need to jump through all these hoops. 

LOL,so now the youtube is good.Its time to go bed and take your pills.

That wasn't the point I was making.  Not that I don't understand what you're saying.  But, I disagree with the previous assessment of his clean vocal tone.

You know...I held back on a smartass retort twice.  But that's over.

Learn to fucking read.

That its the problem when you try to defend something that you cant.And loyality doesnt mean not think and not say hey axl,you did not sing good today.Because maybe he needs someone to say him,you better find yourself again.

I think any major vocal switch for any major established act is going to be an issue.

Youtube seemed to become unreliable on 10.2.2011.  That's when you can trace back to when you have to start believing in ghosts in the machine.

D-Generation X, I usually agree with what you are saying. However, with this I disagree. The Youtube recording doesn't compare to a live show. I went to the Izod show in November of  2011. He sounded much better live than he does on YouTube for that show.  With  Youtube, there is just  too much noise with the crowd. Granted, he does not sound as good as he did 20 years ago, which is completely understandable.  However, he really sounded great that night. Even my date was impressed and she's a Madonna fan.

This thread has gone waaaaay off topic...Jarmo will soon lock it. Lets go back to Argentina videos plz. Ill soon post an article a brazilian singing teacher posted regarding Axls voice....its a very long and interesting article...talks about Axls surgeries, his vocal issues, his techniques...

I'd be curious to read that...although unless it is in English, I don't think I actually CAN read it :)

Ali

Yeah, I'd love to read this if we can get it translated.

Yeah, I'd love to read this if we can get it translated.

The fact is that , to use the drive without prior study of technique, Axl severely damaged his vocal cords . Even in 1993 shows , we could already see Axl with a much weaker than in previous years voice.
The drive resulted in nodules ( calluses ) on the vocal cords of Axl . Possibly , this was the main reason for getting so many years without Axl sing live , between 1994 and 2001 .

Between 1997 and 1999 , he recorded most of the vocals on the live album Live Era in the studio and it was a noticeable change in his voice, but was still recognizable and the drive was still there , over dosed , it is true , but it was there .

In 2000 he played Dead Flowers with Gilby Clarke and his voice was still recognizable , he was still enjoying the drive .

Anyway , after this presentation with Gilby , Axl decided to undergo a surgery for the removal of these nodules . This type of surgery have as a repair , and calluses of the vocal cords leave the cleaner voice , and the rasp ( strident , hoarseness ) voice is dissipated briefly .

Exactly for this reason that in 2001 , just one year after singing with Gilby and after the infamous surgical procedure , Axl showed up at the House of Blues and Rock in Rio , as well as throughout 2002 tour , singing with a cleaner voice , having been forbidden by doctors to use drive , otherwise you could incur irreparable damage to your voice .

As no longer had the power the drive gave him , Axl is forced to enhance other features such as their head voice , which has never been as consistent as your chest voice , moreover , also enhanced the use of belting .

Technically , Axl had improved , but the drive was and is very much needed for several songs from Guns since Axl dwelt fans of Guns N ' Roses to hear him sing with him .

About that time followed closely resembles that Axl was bombarded by criticism by the new way of singing , and perhaps this was the main reason for the cancellation of the 2002 tour .

Tired from criticism of his voice on tour 2001/2002 , in 2004 , he did another surgery , this time to give greater depth to his voice , after this procedure , its got a little more treble and deep bass , giving the false impression that his voice would have recovered the stridency of previous years .

Contrary medical advice , Axl went back to using drive in 2006 , but his voice did not externava more natural stridency as in the past . Many times , he sounded hoarse , stressed, superficial and without the scope of yore .

Many people define as Axl sang well or not because he has used drive or not , but singing is not only used drive . Several factors have to be analyzed , extent , projection , depth , vibrato , head voice , chest voice , belting , etc. .

Returning to use drive , was noticed clearly that he suffered at the shows , you could see his veins pop out of the canyon and it was feared for his health , but adore the sound that your voice was producing , returning to remember , vaguely true , the past. But it was not healthy , Axl never sang in a sustainable manner .

In 2010 , many sets he sang well because he started to abuse the drive , using it on every song , but I repeat , singing is not only drive . Even with the drive , Axl found himself out of tune even more out of tune than in 2002 , when he did not use the drive , but it remained tuned in good part, as can be seen in songs such as The Blues and Madagascar .

But truth be told , although not healthy for him, was spectacular for the fans, the voice that echoed Axl in 2010 , because maybe it was the year in which his voice was closer to the heydays . This does not mean that she was very good as define . Importantly , even in the heyday of Axl 's voice has never been characterized by technology, but by the power the drive gave him , was the feeling that Axl conquered fans .

Yes , it is true that many songs from Guns are , say , different and strange without drive . But this is because Axl fans accustomed to it , he did not think long term.

He worked hard in 2010 to keep the entire tour using the drive , but as stated earlier , did not sing in a sustainable way , and it was noticeable that used the drive through the canyon and not the soft palate , which proves that perhaps he has not found a teacher who had the courage to teach him the drive properly after their surgeries , for which he was subjected .

There is also evidence that , in addition to vocal cord nodules , throughout his career, Axl has also had reflux laryngopharyngeal reflux , same problem which affected numerous vocalists such as Edu Falaschi , for example.

It is possible that with every effort made ​​between 2006 and 2010 , Axl has acquired new nodules on his vocal cords , and that because of this, it has drastically reduced the use of the drive since 2011 , having its apex in 2014 , where his voice is clean most of the time during shows .

But unlike 2002 , today Axl no longer have the breath that had at that time , so we can not support and sustain the notes , as in 2002 could , therefore , today , your voice sounds worse than in 2002 , it sounds wound and without support.

As a result, the tendency is that the set list for the coming years bring only songs that are his original fabric , ie , songs that give him sing only with chest voice , songs like You Is not The First, Mr Bronwstone , Bad Obsession , Knockin 'On Heavens Door , Do not Cry , Doule Talkin Jive , Down On The Farm , It's So Easy , so Fine , etc. .

Axl is never going to sound like he did when he was 25 ever again. He should've never gave up on Gloria Bennett. She was quoted as saying Axl had the greatest breath control she'd ever taught. Throat nodules create scar tissue on the vocal cords which is permanent. I say we just enjoy Axl as is and have a blast at the shows.

If I was to offer my two cents, if he was to lose 40 pounds and get super fit it would help him with chest control. Problem is is he's constantly out of breath.  Personally I think Axl sounded best live in 1993. Of course he was young and fit.  I'm a trained singer so I like to think I know a little about this. And my training is never over, you have to be on top of your voice everyday.

Axl is what..52 years old already? It's only natural that your voice changes over the years, it's happened to the best of them. Rob Halford, David Coverdale, Bruce Dickinson, Ian Gillan, James LaBrie, Robert Plant...singing high and loud puts a lot of strain on the voice. I think he's singing pretty well for someone who screamed his lungs out for the last 30 years. He should just get in better shape. And FFS lose the moustache!  ;D

This.

All this talk of changing voices only made me think about Dio and how his voice was still so powerful even at 67. The greatest metal singer ever by a mile above all the others!  :peace:

Less voice threads.  More altitude threads.