Here Today... Gone To Hell!

 http://www.tmz.com/2016/09/13/axl-rose-lawsuit-guns-n-roses-engineer-unpaid-wages/ 

Sad.  Pitman was a big part of last 2 decades.  Pitman referred to only as "loyal engineer". 

  9/13/2016 1:30 PM PDT BY TMZ STAFF

EXCLUSIVE

0913_axl-rose_tmzAxl Rose and Guns N' Roses are raking in the dough these days, but Axl's way behind on paying the loyal engineer who stuck with the band in the lean years ... according to a lawsuit the guy just filed.

Axl cried poverty back in 2011 -- long before this year's hugely successful reunion tour -- and promised to pay Chris Pitman for services rendered ... down the road when he was more flush ... according to the docs.

Pitman says Axl wrote him a promissory note for the $125,000 he was owed for more than a year's worth of work. In the suit, he says that amount was supposed to be paid by Oct. 2012 -- but Axl never bucked up, and he's been radio silent ever since.

It's interesting, GNR has reportedly grossed more than $100 million already off its reunion -- so, you gotta figure Pitman ain't gonna buy the poor Axl routine now.

He says Axl now owes him more than $163k, due to interest.

I really want to know what went on here

Why?

How does that change anything for us as fans?

It's entirely possible that there will be a settlement with a NDA signed and we'll never know.

Ali

Unfortunate, but not the first time Axl gets sued. Remember the Riad lawsuit?



/jarmo

Hum, so he stayed with the band after 2012 even tho Axl owed him money? How does that works?

Anyways, I think this could easily be settled down off the court. Not that much money in the context.

Yep. The song is still in its full on Chinese Democracy (like digital copies and stuff) and has no mention of the other guys who did that intro as far as I know.

For those who don't remember, here's the thread:
GNR sued for plagiarism
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=57776.msg1205883#msg1205883


http://www.mtv.com/news/1623293/guns-n-roses-vigorously-contest-plagiarism-lawsuit/

So if Chris cost GNR a million for plagiarizing part of Riah but they do actually still owe him the $163K for engineering duties or whatever then by my calculation, Chris owes GNR $837K. 

Hey Chris, Axl will take a cashier check.  : ok:

Axl should sue Pitman for being useless during his tenure as a "member" of GNR

And he was all bitter about not being included in the reunion.  So this sounds like a cheap money grab

Maybe he was bitter about not getting more money despite the bigger payday from Slash & Duff coming back?

Either way, he bitched about it publicly, then was let go.  Not a smart move as he lost out on a steady paycheck for the next couple of years.

Ali

What dos changing anything have to do with anything ?

I want to know why he left/got fired.  I want to hear more about why He says Axl owes him money.  I want to know more about went on behind the scenes for the past 10 years.  I want to har stories about the receding of the album CD


There was zero mention why chore isn't in the band any more.  Then we get someone replacing him

What about all those stupid ghost pictures from the recording studios last year?

Nothing has to change to find out more info from your fav band

Why are you painting here?  It doesn't change anything?

Why do fans call into talk shows to talk about there fav sports teams?   It doesn't change anything?? 

Perhaps he is actually owed money.....   He did say he has a promissory note from Axl.  That's pretty cut and dry.  Either he has a note and is owed money.  Or he doesn't

Posting here and wanting to know details about the inner workings and business affairs of the band are not the same thing.

Ali

Never brought up the issue of whether or not he is actually owed money. Although, if he is actually the one who opened the band up to the Riad lawsuit, the situation may not be as cut and dry as you suggested. The interesting thing to me is the timing. Coincidentally, right after the Billboard Box Scores come out.

Ali

We don't know when was the lawsuit filled. But yeah, probably not coincidetally. :P

Thebaconman man is right and makes excellent points.  Why not discuss inner workings and business?
Beats talking about the ac/dc tour Ali.
Baconman raises some great questions.

Because it's not why any of us became fans to begin with. Because wanting to know something isn't the same as being entitled to know it.

Ali

Whatever Ali....honestley dude Iv heard that for so fuckin long." feeling entiltled" to blah blah blah....sorry bud if you sign to a major label then dont be surprised if your fans want to know all about your band and the gossip that surrounds it. What does talking about the questions baconman brought up have to do with feeling entitled to anything? I dont get what your upset about such a reasonable and logical curiosity on this area of GnR?
I bet if GnR announced a new album then this thread would die real fast, so until theres something else worth disussing, i see no prob in talking about such gossip...n neither should you.

We became fans to begin with because we loved the music and supported he band thru thick n thin....not our choice we're discussing Pitman getting ripped off instead of a new song or album!!

Would Axl seriously need to write an IOU??

Obviously he's making more money now- but did he really fall on hard times??

Chinese Democracy Wiki leaks- the Chris Pitman story!!

Who cares really? I doubt we'll ever hear anything again musically from Pitman. I doubt anyone cares if we do or not. And Axl can make the settlement money in less than one night. I say pay him off and leave him in the past.

Exactly. It's a discussion board for news in the world of GNR- of course we're going to discuss this stuff! No need to even go into a thread if it's a topic that's uninteresting to you!

Acording to TMZ, Pitman have filed a lawsuit against Axl:

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/09/13/axl-rose-lawsuit-guns-n-roses-engineer-unpaid-wages/ (http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/09/13/axl-rose-lawsuit-guns-n-roses-engineer-unpaid-wages/)

Why not? We had tons of Buckethead music. And even Steven Adler, who sued them, came back to play a couple of songs. I don't think we should rule out anything with this band.

I became a fan of the band when I was 8 years old.  My mother let me pick out two tapes from the local supermarket.   I picked AFD and Iron Maiden "Seven sons of a seventh son"

I picked both tapes, because I liked how the front looked.  I liked the artwork

So really I became a fan of GNR because I thought the art work was cool.

Is that all I am supposed to talk about?   Because that's why I became a fan?   I don't think so.......

Why don't you go back to focusing on the number of covers in the setlist for every show you didn't attend?
Like in the good old days....  :hihi:



/jarmo

Oh come on, that's not what this thread is about! haha

Haha that was my reaction.  If this note exists and there was never a deposit made to his bank accounts for $125K then he will probably get it.  If he doesn't then I can't wait to hear his excuse.  "Well, ya see your honor, I brought my leather pants to the dry cleaners and I forgot the note was in there....." 

Exactley Jarmo...when nothing interesting is going on with the band...people tend to be negative...but when the band is acting like a real band....we love it!! No one will complain about a set list when they know new music is in the works but if theres no sign of new music and there is the same ol setlist as previous tours....ya people are going to complain about it, rightfully so..

You are right. If a new album was announced, this thread would die quickly. But, it is choice to express a desire to know exactly what happened.

Ali

Bullshit. The artwork may have sparked curiosity, but no one becomes a fan of a musical artist/performer on the basis of their album art.

Ali

So because you don't like it, its not true?   Ok........

I tell you who became a fan of a lot of music/bands because he thought the albums looked cool, the music videos looked cool, the bands tshirts looked cool.  A 8 year old Baconman, that who.   

That how I became a fan of many, many bands....

Now how did I stay a fan.....   Well this is totally different

I stayed a fan of some of these bands, because I liked there music, etc.

Most bands though that 8 year old Bacon liked, I dropped after a few years.

So with your logic.   You only want to talk about GNRs items, you pick.   However you have no problem discussing what other people should talk about???   Weird.

This may have have been posted here earlier this year, but I completely missed these comments Chris made in April dumping on the band:

"I quit the Oldies band, they just wanna repeat that 30 year old music over and over,? boring."

http://loudwire.com/ex-guns-n-roses-chris-pitman-oldies-gnr-reunion/

Between that comment, the "cash grab" dig before that, and the whole Riad mess, I don't think they'll be in any hurry to pay him...

Yeah, seriously. Also, there's been a ton of reports about the gazillions this tour is making. While $163K isn't chump change it is a drop in the bucket compared to the tour's earnings. I think if it was a greedy money grab or whatever, he'd ask for more. Seeking interest isn't uncommon.

Pitman sucks and provided nothing meaningful to the band. Pay him his money and please make him go away for ever. His style never complimented the band, just was weird. Mother Goose, glad you are gone.

Haha if the interest is adding up I would be in a hurry. 

That's just amazing.

Axl, Duff and Slash on the same stage for the first time since 1993? Doesn't matter... The "setlist is the same".  :rofl:



/jarmo

Jarmo I was somebody who 110% believed that if Axl and Slash got back onstage again together the complaints about the band would melt away.  I was so wrong.  I cannot believe people are complaining about the set list.  You are right, some people will always find something to complain about  :(

The guy was in the band for a very very long time.  Why would he be allowed to stick around, if he didn't do anything?  I really have no clue what he did in the band, other than what he did at live concerts.  I really would like to know the story.  But I guess it is very easy to just say, I don't know what he did and he isn't in the band, so he is dumb and I am glad he left.

So why would he be owed money?  It seems like such an odd ball amount as well....  

I have never head of any of the past band members/current band members being owed money.   So it looks like all the bills from past tours have all been paid.  You play a concert you get paid etc...

So what would Chris be owed this money for?  I would think it would be for non concert work.  Perhaps doing some studio work for Axl for new music?  The record label stopped paying for studio time years ago, so I think Axl has to pick up the tab for anything relating to vaulted music being reworked....   So I bet that's what happend

Pitman should be sued for playing that ridiculous wobbling keyboard and crappy backing vocals during GNR concerts.

Good ol' Pitman. I don't think we've ever discussed him as much as in the past 6 or 7 months!

if he doesn't have this document, the court case will be pretty swift....

 

If he's in fact responsible for not getting the proper clearance for the Riad sample that was the subject of the lawsuit, there will be a settlement. I doubt Pitman has the financial resources for a protracted legal dispute, so it would be in his best interest to settle.

Ali

Surely he'd not sue if he didn't have the document, possession being 9/10th's and all that... That would be his only ace.

I will be blunt when i say how little I care about this lawsuit. Whatever the situation is it will resolve itself id rather talk nothing about gnr then stupid lawsuits.

In fact, I think there will likely be a settlement regardless.

Ali

I never said I didn't "like it".

Maybe it's a matter of semantics, but no one I have ever met in my entire life continues to listen to an artist, spends money on albums and concerts without deriving enjoyment from the artist's music.

All this stemmed from your remark about wanting to know what went on.

Well, we still don't know what exactly is the legal arrangement between Axl, Slash and Duff.  We likely never will as we have no right or even need to know that.  Did that affect your enjoyment of the recent tour?

It sure didn't for me.

The conversation has diverged, but that's why I was asking.

Ali

I explained how I became a fan.  As you said this isn't why I became a fan.

I explained why I stayed a fan.....   

I never said it was my "right" or anyone elses, with anything to do with GNR...     

What I will say is I love talking about my fav band in the world.  I love knowing everything there is to know about the band.  Good and bad.

If you don't want to know, don't care, only care to read and talk about puppies and lollypops, cool.....

Not me

I would love to know everything....  I want to talk about everything.   When I go to a guns n roses concert I want to hear guns n roses music.  I would love more albums.  I would love to read about the making of all the albums.   I would love there to be another internet chat.  I want to know why Chris isn't in the band after all this time and what he exactly did!!!!!

Again if you don't cool.  Seems you do like to talk about what other people should talk about though.  And that is weird...

As I said, perhaps it's a matter of semantics on becoming vs. staying a fan.

I asked a honest question as to why it matters to you to know what went on.  I cited an example as to how we don't know the details of a situation, and it did not (at least for me) impact my appreciation of a show.

If your answer is "I want to know everything"...o.k. 

Ali

All you have to do s read the liner notes of Chinese Democracy to know what Pitman did. For God's sake....I am sure he is on all the other songs recorded during that time frame as well.  ::)

First instinct would be to say fuck this guy.  Might be a first ballot "right place, right time" Hall Of Fame guy.  Most of us still aren't entirely sure what the guy ever did of note.

But, after a cool down, I'd say write him a check and just get rid of him.  It's not like the guy will ever be heard from again.  The hell with him.  Take your money and piss off, dude.

Have a good time.

Chris Pittman actually did a lot on Chinese democracy he even plays  sub bass on a couple of tracks. If the world is one song that comes to mind. And didn't he help Axl produce chinese democracy?

Come to think of it, did Chris not play shows in 2012 past that October date?  And then another batch in 2014, over 2 legs?

No problems then though, huh?

It's only when he gets "future endeavored" for the big time tour that he's suddenly salty.  Funny, that.

Pitman cowrote If The World and Madagascar with Axl...he plays on about every song on the album and does some production work.

Can people not read or hear? He is all over the thing....

Great.  And he was paid for that.

He's not claiming he was never paid, just that he was owed for about a year.  Likely during the going through the motions of there being a second CD album coming.

That is what he is owed.  It's not like he's never been paid.

And you would not hear word one about this if he got the call for the NITL tour.  Not a peep.

I don't know if he is owed or not but I don't think that is the first time someone alleged Gnr owed them money..... :P

Look, if he's owed, Axl should pay.  Stiffing him is just a dick move.

But, end of the day, are we really to believe this is not direct retaliation for being aced out?

Buckethead has talent and an identity.

Yep  Seems as if Chris did a ton of stuff behind the curtain

I do not think this money has anything to do with not getting paid for touring in the past.

its probably is more to do with studio work he did for Axl.


I don't think the hugely successful tour has anything to do with launching the lawsuit.   

I do think.    Him not being in the band, saying he has been owed money and then saying nobody will return his calls, has everything to do with suing Axl

I would think that if he was still in the band, had this promisary note, he would just let things slide, just as he said he has done for years...

But

It could all be lies!!!!! haha, I doubt it, but you never know

So it's his fault if CD sounds like shit despite having greats songs?  :hihi:

This could have bad results for those of us still hoping for the second half of cd. Hopefully ax doesnt throw out everything unreleased the guy was on. Could mean further delays for that next album.

He was the 2nd keyboard player and a crappy background singer. I can do that and I don't even play keyboards. Don't give me this sub bass crap either, you don't need a sub bass. Everything he did was extra and not needed.

This.  I would imagine Pitman is all over whatever else is "in the can".  If the idea is to simply have Slash & Duff record on those tracks, this could make things a lot more difficult.

the interesting about it is, that it was not always about Axl and his hired Guns as many supposed. it was more than that more than "slash aint in the band, fuck it".
most important: you take all the talk and "complaints" way too seriously. but that's an old hat/dead horse/whatever

actual topic: never was a Pitmanfan but if he deservs money, more power to him. if not, fuck him. simple as that.

Baconman I feel the exact same way, nicely said.
I see nothing wrong with being this way or being like Ali, if your not concerned about small things like this Pitman thing then thats cool....but I dont get you being irritated or whatever about other fans talking about this.

Discussing something like their kids might be weird and unnecessary but you should be able to understand why fans may want to speculate what happened to the bands keyboard player and songwriter who's now suing the band. Seems like a normal and rational thing to dicuss to me.

1000% correct on all points Ringoturtle. Beautiflly said.

I always thought there were always communication issues because these guys because they probably can't talk to Axl directly about things ... But from afar Chris always seemed closer to Axl than others have.

Who knows...

If he's owed money then he should get paid ... That's all. Maybe it was a lawyer or accounting error that has nothing to do with Axl or band management. I believe Slash and Duff sued him once and it was resolved quickly because it had nothing to do with Axl.

I seriously doubt that Axl was close to "poverty" in 2011. He still lives in his million dollar home last I heard. But if there was a cash flow problem in 2011 that could explain why doing residences in Vegas in 2012 and 2014 was preferred over a traveling tour that would incur much larger expenses.

I hope that if it is handled quickly, that pitman comes out and gives credit or says something positive about that

I think there is a huge difference in Axl being personally broke and the company/band guns n roses being broke.....

I am sure all the employees are paid through the company/band and not Axl directly.   I am sure the band was paid a fee for live shows (never heard a deal with nobody not being paid for that)  I bet pitman did some studio work and there just wasn't anything in the guns cupboard to pay him with....    Just a guess though

Agreed.  It was a hard sell as Guns N' Roses as anything but in name only.  Apparently, the print on a ticket stub is supposed to fix what you are seeing and hearing.  Sure thing.

But I don't know you have to look much further than the current tour to support your premise here.  Is it a full blown reunion?  Not even close.  But with Slash back, it "seems/sounds/is Guns N' Roses again", or some variation.

And numbers, they do not lie.

The promotion for this tour is something we havnt seen in a very very very very very very long time

That plays a huge factor into ticket sales.

What comes first the chicken or the egg? The reason why LiveNation put all that money in to this is because they knew how well this would do.

 

Oh man, watch it turn out that pitman is the reason we never get to hear cd 2. If you thought people hated the guy before, just imagine how people would feel about him after that turn of events. He would be the ultimate scapegoat. Not saying that it will happen, just entertaining myself. I still think the second half of cd will eventually come out.

I assume this will sort itself out and isn't too big a deal, but it seems strange that this is the third former GNR musician who we know has sued the band after departing: Steven, Gilby, Pittman. Maybe GNR needs a new HR department.

Probably because they were still friends back then. Things are different now.

Edit: Or maybe he just didn't wanna loose his place at GN'R so he said nothing.

Perhaps because he kept getting paid for touring

But

They couldn't figure out a way to pay him for studio time

And he was fine with that

Until he got kicked out of the band or left and asked for his money and nobody would return his calls

This makes sense

If he's due the money, he should be paid it, pronto.  That's his daily bread, after all.  There's nothing remiss about wanting paid for work you've done.

That lawsuit has one positive effect for us fans: We finally know that the band was in a studio after 2007.

Well this is from 2014. Also Axl tweeted this.

https://mobile.twitter.com/CPitmanofficial/status/540340556077875201

I wish anyone owed me $163,000.

It's a company thing. Just think back to 1993. Izzy said that his main motivation to rejoin for the few shows (when Gilby broke his arm) was because GNR hadn't paid him since he left the band! The minute they wanted him to get them out of a pickle he says they had the paperwork drawn up and he got his money.

Haha.....So thats what Axl meant on rockline radio interview when he said Izzy came back for the tour then " blackmailed us"  and wanted nothing to do with him since and was " cool when he went away"....after slash said it was cool to have him back initially.
I dont get why GnR the company does this or why Axl would allow it.

Haha, remember when this passed for excitement around here?

God, I think we talked about this for 3 days.

Ha!  I remember that.  People dissected the shit out of that.  "So, Axl re-tweeted the photo, that must mean he's there in the studio, right?" "That does look like his hand..."  Oh man, what a difference a couple years make. 

no difference on the new music front..... :P

I have the feeling this is will just go away. Only to be brought up Ina. Couple of years when I find this thread 10 pages back and ask has anyone heard of what happened here

Best bet this situation will settle quickly...

I am more interested in how and why he was removed from the band over if he was paid correctly.  ;)

Haha! I always enjoyed the 'has Ron left?' era. Endless speculation and reading cryptic messages into snippets of comments!

I guess though, it's probably not that different to what we're up to these days Izzy/Pitman wise!

You live the dream i suppose,still we dont need to know the gory details do we?

So much for being loyal....

Oh yes shame on Chris for thinking he can get what is owed to him. How dare he?!!?!?!?  ::)

Yeah, go on a drunken rant calling out your employer, yeah there's nothing wrong with that....  Should I bring up the Coachella post as well ??

Your point is? He is owed money for work he did. Is he not entitled to it? Do you work for free?

Evidently there are differing opinions on whether he is entitled to this money.  Hence the dispute. 

Well no not exactly. He says he has a promissory note signed by Axl saying he would pay him. He just never did pay him. So there wasn't a dispute if he was owed it or not.

Too bad this piece of shit article doesn't have any more real facts, like what court and what state was the lawsuit filed in. Nor does it have a link to the actual document, like a real news outlet would do.

Anyway, find out that information (I'm assuming either NY or California) and it's public record. The suit was filed more than a month ago. That means Axl's lawyers have to file what are called "Answers" addressing each allegation. They're generally due within a month or so of the initial lawsuit, which is technically called a complaint.

That said, the defendant - Axl in this case - will probably ask for more time, since he's on tour. That, too, will be in the court filing, although that's pretty much all it will say: "You honor, my boy is rocking stadiums right now and he ain't got time for this shit, so we'll need an extra 60 days."

Judges generally grant an extension or two.

Anyway, the "answers" generally either deny the claims (remember this is line by line) or they "admit" them, or they "admit" them and then have a response.

I'm trying to put all this in layman's terms cause it's far more legal lingo mumbo jumbo.

Point is, if you know the court, you can literally go to the courthouse and ask for the file and view if for free no questions asked. Hell, some court clerk offices, if they're not busy, will email you the PDFs.

Word s getting around Axl and Pittman settled this matter out of court earlier this month for an 'undisclosed sum' but less than the $163k Pittman was asking for...

Still as Axl is basically wearing that on his right arm these days, I'm sure getting rid of this problem with a bit of cash was the clever thing to do...

160K for Axl nowadays is equivalent to 50 cents for me.  :rofl:

Shame about Chris.  He was around a long time.

Yeah, from what little we know, it's a bummer that it came to this.  If they did settle, there's probably a confidentiality clause that prevents either side from talking about it.  Not that we'd really expect to hear things from Axl, but that means Chris will likely not talk about it either, unless he goes on another twitter bender!

It is a shame things turned out the way they did. 

I hope the reason they were able to come to a settlement was due to Axl N' Chris talking and working out their differences not only on a business level but more importantly (IMO) on a personal one. 

I really liked and appreciated Chris being in GNR and am sad he's gone.

From what pitman said I really can't see either party talking about this
I highly doubt anyone sat down and mediated any of this

I would think it was cheaper for a settlement than anything else for both people and that was that

I guess he was owed something then......

I sure would like to know how that could of happened

It's settled, and ouch - TMZ refers to Pittman as a roadie:

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2016/11/27/axl-rose-lawsuit-settlement-guns-n-roses-engineer-unpaid-wages/

I don't think what Chris said was so wrong.  It just shouldn't have come out of his mouth at that time.  I can see him feeling betrayed.  He worked for a long time moving the music forward and this was a step back.  Not to say it wasn't marketable, the rebanding was what fans wanted and has been big.  I agree with Axl, I was pretty fond of the guys in the previous line ups.  Time will tell if they can put out new music.  In the meantime, new Stones music coming.  You'd think they'd be dead (musically).

I believe the lawsuit had nothing to do with the GNR shows/music themselves.  Chris was paid for those, hence no mention of him being an onstage member of the band/CD writing credits/etc. in this suit.

The use of 'engineer/roadie' was more likely only referenced to specify the alleged unpaid other duties Chris was asked to perform. 

hahaha yep

Better than a groupie I guess though.

But I wonder if he will ever be referred to an Ex Band Member.