Here Today... Gone To Hell!

Guns N’ Roses haven’t announced any fun surprises for this next leg of the tour, like a complete performance of Appetite for Destruction or appearances by former members Steven Adler and Izzy Stradlin. They also haven’t released a note of new music despite numerous interviews where they promise they’re working on an album. But if this tour has proven anything, it’s that a band can just tour forever and ever on their hits and people will keep coming. We look forward to legs 15, 16, 17, and beyond. Maybe in 2026, they can do a 10-year anniversary tour of the reunion tour.


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/guns-n-roses-reunion-las-vegas-2016-947513/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Sounds like they've been reading the forums.

Looks like we're not the only ones tired of getting the runaround regarding new music. You reap what you sow.

Breaking News: first new gnr song released to be a sequel to Get in The Ring.   :rofl: :rofl:


I kid, I kid....

You can't talk to our pledges like that!

Only we can talk to our pledges like that!!

 :hihi:

Bit of honesty can’t hurt

If anything, it challenges the narrative that it's just a handful of fans on the forums that feel misled in regard to new music.  It's nice to see a major media outlet like Rolling Stone calling out the GNR brand for this.

If the Not In This Lifetime tour ended last November, how is it the same tour then?

I guess their logic is that since it's the same band, it's the same "reunion tour"....





/jarmo

I think the writer's point is that, other than maybe the name of the tour, as of the first show everything was more or less the same milking of the back catalogue instead of shaking it up with the new music they assured us was in the works.

IT HASN’T STARTED!!
IT’S NOT “THE NEXT CHAPTER” YET!!
THIS WAS A ONE-OFF!!!

FUCKING SPLASH

/Mike

I was thinking they are trying to get GNR to give them a statement/exclusive.  Little early for that shot when they know there's time.  Little bit of hurt thrown towards the recent NA tour announcement.  RS is trying to force GNR to do damage control. 

Little bit risky pissing GNR off.  :hihi:  Wasn't that bad though.

I doubt they care about pissing GN’R off, as i doubt GN’R care what they write.

It is what it is. Guns has booked another stadium tour in the US and from what it seems, it could be an identical tour (or not).

I think we are getting our asses kicked this summer and new music will be played! As I mentioned in another thread, this reads 1991 all over again!

Nah, it was pretty tame. Half of the article was just a NITL tour recap (and a positive one at that). They even go out of their way to talk about how professional Axl is now.

I hope we get new music, just do strange to announce a world your without a new album.  See what happens..

Something has to be in the works here. The promoters wouldn't back a stadium run in the US without something to generate excitement.They can't play the same old NITLT show and fill out 60'000 seat stadiums. They were only doing 20'000 seat arenas last year. Two predictions. 1- The first new music/album is about to be announced (in the coming months) ft Axl, Slash, and Duff for the first time since 1992 . 2-Izzy and Steven will be joining the band for the US stadium run, the original 5 all back together will sell out stadiums.
Or perhaps the juggernaut that is GN'R  can fill stadiums by playing the same show! kudos to them I guess if thats possible.

As awesome as both of those predictions would be, we're talking some VERY wishful thinking here, especially prediction #2.  As exciting as it would be for those of who love the original lineup, I don't see Izzy or Steven rejoining for more than a one-off performance here or there.  They definitely should devote a show or two to the five originals, and chances are, they won't even announce it, just like they didn't announce Steven's appearances in 2016.  The people at Steven's shows just got lucky to see 4 out 5!

First show was a one off festival.

Assuming what the shows will be months in advance, anyone can do that. You don't need to be a journalist/writer for that.






/jarmo

I don't expect Izzy or Steven to do anything major on the tour. I am guilty of some wishful thinking, though, in hoping that maybe Izzy will head an hour down I-65 from Lafayette for the show I'm attending at Lucas Oil in Indianapolis. (Assuming that Izzy's in Lafayette in the first place. Probably not the case, but a guy can dream!)

A LIKE Button Please!
We have such a burning need!
I would use it now!

CANNON BALL!

/pilferk

Ha ha, I totally didn't even think about that. I grabbed pit tickets for that show, too. Fingers crossed!

man...ok, we’ll  see what they’ll do but if they are going to do almost the same setlist with 0 new song... it’s just the same tour, no doubt about that... but RS is 100% correct at this point. 1 date e and not even a fuckin hint of what is to come. :(

Yep, like RS said, not 1 damn note of new music despite their assurances that was coming next. Sad and, worse, misleading to their loyal fanbase. 

Who in their right mind would pay $600 for a pair of tickets to support this?

The same people who aren't holding onto Fernando's words like it's some kind of official press release?

People who wanna have fun for a few hours?

I can think of many.....




/jarmo

Again, so going forward everything that Fernando says regarding GNR's future plans is horseshit unless it's a press release. Got it.

I didn't say it was horseshit.

All I said is that he didn't give a confirmed set in stone release date no matter how you like to pretend that he did.





/jarmo

Isn't Fernando a manager? He should know after 20 years how to weigh words in gnr camp ...at least...  :confused: :confused:

You would think.  ::)

I'd rather get info on a Gnr release from Fernando Valenzuela at this point

Yes he is.

I'm sure he said those words for a reason. One being he was asked about it.



Anyway, I can't believe I have to explain this to GN'R fans. After all, did you forget when Axl made an announcement about a not promised release date, and what happened?

Let me refresh your memory: He said they wanted to release the album (CD) on a certain date but it wasn't a promise. The album came out later, and Axl was basically called a liar because he had promised the album by that date!  :hihi:





/jarmo

I remember. And, apparently, Fernando learned nothing from that debacle.

Well to be honest during that mtv backstage interview he said "IT IS THIS YEAR (2006)" So...i don't know  :hihi:

Aren't you the one demanding answers? So when he gave one, it's not good. When he doesn't, it's not good.

And around we go!




/jarmo

It's good when there's actual follow through and not what we have now, which is complete apathy that it was ever said at all.

The fact is that they don't asnwer at all! They could say "we re going to do this we are going to do that" and stop all the bullshit.

Things like "maybe, we don't know, we wrote some stuff, axl has a lot of material etc etc" mean nothin at all and they force people to speculate about things.

But obviously they can't say "we don't have a new album, we are not going to play new songs" even if it would be more honest...cause you know...!!!money $$$!!! we have to sell all the tickets at a reasonable price  $$$ :hihi:

What we have now is a band that's one of the biggest rock n' roll bands in the world.  : ok:






Or maybe it's not true!

Did you see the setlist for the last leg of the NITL tour?




/jarmo

I guess the best policy is not expect new music but at least we get to see GNR on tour.  It's crazy but better than it was in the past.

Rolling Stone jumped the journalistic shark years ago.

my thoughts exactly! who even reads "Rolling Stone" now a days?....who knows, maybe a lot of people do. I personally haven't in over 20 years. Now if we still had Metal Edge!!!! j/k, well sorta ;)

Fuck Rolling Stone... lol

It was called the Use Your Illusion tour for a reason...

It was called the Chinese Democracy tour for a reason....

It was Called the Not in this lifetime tour for a reason.....

It’s being called The Next Chapter for a reason;)

It would be a colossal mega sized public relations managerial disaster for them to name this tour what they did without a plan. This management has proven to have a plan, time and time again. Let’s just wait for THAT plan to be unveiled. It’s happening, SOMETHING is brewing... the tour could have been called anything besides what they did. But they chose The Next Chapter for a reason. The last chapter was burying the hatchet and proving they could still own the world... the next chapter is new music. Or maybe they’re all becoming cyborgs to continue touring forever ;)

Have faith people. This year is gonna be stellar!!  8)

I agree 100 percent. something is up in a positive way. they wouldn't risk this tour without it IMO

Sofine11

You wanna make a $100 bet that GNR releases new music this year?  I would make that bet with you....saying they do.

I am no gambler, but I think that is a great bet. I think they release music soon as well.

I remember people on this very site making the same bet in 2006.  Poor bastards, I saw them on skid row the other day.   :P   :hihi:

That said, I hope they do release new music sooner as opposed to later.  But with GNR, I wouldn't make bets on such things if my life depended on it.

Lawyer tactics - what is "new music" ?
If a new album of original music with this group of musicians - that is an interesting bet

If you consider new music something they burp up from 1988 that sounds like Axl is 20 years old but they fine tune it with today's technology and it shows up on youtube- that is quite different.

Also - CD songs that have 18 different musicians who played on it but Slash throws his own solo on top - if this starts leaking on youtube - does this count?

NEW music.  Music that has never been released on an album.  This includes leaks that the general public have not heard. 

Anything they may have done in the last couple years, as well as previously un-released material.  Atlas Shrugged, Silk Worms, Hardschool, etc would count.  Very high percentage of people in this world have never heard these songs. 

Personally played the crap out of and got sick of Silkworms a long time ago - but if that's what you call new music - your hopes for 2020 are just a little different than mine

I don't know. This is what the Rolling Stones have been doing since 2015 when they kicked off their Zip Code stadium tour. They just change the name and keep on chooglin'! In fact, today they just announced another tour.

I do see your point, though.  :peace:

For the first time in my life I won't be going to see GN'R when they hit locally to wherever I am.   I'm just kind of bored with the same music and I don't feel it's worth the money.  If I see something new happen I might change my mind but at this point I'm just not interested and I don't feel bad about it. 

Same here. I saw NITL three times, had a blast every time, but I just can't in good conscience pay that same wild amount of money to see the same show again give or take a song two.  Or a new screen.

Yup.  Same here.  I've seen NITL 5 times...the spirit will really need to move me to go again (read: to explain to my wife why I need to go again).  A new album?  Now we're talking.  But to maybe here Locomotive?  Not so much.

Glad I'm not the only one...

I think they are just looking for a reaction. It's lazy journalism

Wasn't lazy, it had a purpose.  Going to cost them a lot of space for that shot. 

They're going to write a story anyway, go for the exclusive and all the pics. 

Just my opinion, not in the biz but I will use your ass, count on it.  :D

Wow, my buddy and I are both huge GNR fans and we had that exact conversation a couple of days ago whether we will see GNR when they are in Arlington, TX in August. I said I just was not excited and did not want to spend hundreds of dollars to see the same show. I mean, the last time I saw them was in Denver in 2017 and it was the best show of my life. Absolute perfection in every way.

For 2020, I also am not excited about the venue where they will play in August, a closed roof stadium. I saw them in a closed roof stadium in 2016 and the sound was horrible. It seems to me that large stadium shows are only good for enriching the band, not for a high quality audience experience. I can't forget the 3,000 (?) seat venue at the Joint in Vegas or even the 1,800 seat venue in Dallas at House of Blues where GNR played in the pre-union days (I was unfortunately out of town). I understand that now that Duff and Slash are back, the days of small venues are probably gone.

Not necessarily.
GN'R played at the Troubadour (LA), the Apollo (NYC), the Palladium (LA) and the Colosseum (Las Vegas). These aren't huge stadiums or arenas.





/jarmo

Yes, point taken.

I actually wanted to go to the Vegas show (s) but tickets were just too expensive.

That's the downside of playing smaller venues....





/jarmo

How did I miss this????
Thanks so much for the homage...
Oh, LOVE “CANNON BALL!”

splash

/Mike

Rolling Stone has no credibility anyone.  Re: The University of Virginia story.
Fuck Rolling Stone.

For what it is worth, there was a commercial during the Colbert Late Show yesterday (Wednesday night) for the GNR show in Arlington TX in August that stated "with a whole new show." Not sure what that means and it is clearly advertising hyperbole but thought I would share anyway which may fit the narrative of something stirring.

Sounds promising
Thx for sharing -
Anything that suggests something different could be great news

My prediction is that this South American run is more of the same (NITL), while the European and NA tour in the summer will be something different.

Why?
- The advertisement for the Euro and NA tour is different than the SA one. "Whole new show" and "Next chapter" hasn't been mentioned for the SA tour, while the Euro/NA dates have identical advertisement.
- They scheduled dates at the SA tour in places where they haven't visited before, I think it's fair that they get to see the "Greatest Hits" show as well.

So... maybe a single during, or shortly after the SA tour, with an album before/during the summer tour.

Watch out there, Spirit...
You’re treading close to logic...
Talking facts and such... :hihi:

Splash

/Mike

AFD music in the add? Waiting for the goosebumps...

Yeah, can confirm.  I heard the audio version on Sirius on Wednesday.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/rolling-stone-and-uva-the-columbia-university-graduate-school-of-journalism-report-44930/

Grow up.

Twist and spin and you come out looking like the good guy.

Even an EP of 4-5 strong songs would be sufficient to satisfy most fans if they aren't willing to do a full album, Axl must have hundreds of songs stashed away that they could choose from and work on in a few weeks and release but who knows what's going on behind the scenes maybe the record companies aren't willing to promote new music as so many bands that reform usually don't release new music and live off their past glories playing the old classics.

IDK about any of this "record company holding things up" business

Friggin U2 dropped a new album on people in itunes for free - a lot of people weren't happy about that but they had something ready and got it out there and they are about as large a group as you're gonna find these days.

Radiohead put something out there and invited people to pay what they wanted to for it

If he wants to share new songs with the world he can

If he doesn't, fine.

But scapegoating a record company or promoter at this point is counterproductive

Let's assume this is true. GN'R wants to release new music tomorrow. Record company says "no, you'll have to wait". Then what?

In reality, both parts need to agree on when/how to release it.





/jarmo

Ok boomer. I have grown up.  I'm grown up enough to know that any jagoff can have an opinion or write.  Doesn't make it right or the story correct. It was poor investigative journalism, etc.  There is alot of that these days.  Journalism used to mean something.  In the end Rolling Stone fucked up.  Apologizing doesn't make it all better.  

PS Nobody remembers Dan Rather  for being a responsible or good journalist.  They remember the one lie filled story without fact checking.  

Totally hear what your saying, but surely the record company knows that a new guns album
will sell well. What could they possibly be waiting for?

You sure about that?  I'm not, no matter how good it is.  Why would a new GNR record sell well? 

Jarmo

You are on one hand saying it is the record company who drives the decision and then suggesting that they would not want to strike while the iron is hot - which is bonafide ludicrous - unless they have switched their business model to a non-profit company.

One of the highest grossing tours ever - if what you are suggesting is true, they would have pushed on getting the album out during NITL tour or right after.
Now they have decided to go back on the road again...and you say if there is music to be released it's being held up by the company who would want to wait until the tits on this cash cow of a tour have been milked completely?

Guess we live in two different business worlds

In this day and age, there is no more record company control.  If an entity wants to put something out they do.  No one on the GNR level has to go through marketing red tape anymore like they used to.  I've been in the music business over for over half my life and those are the facts.  In actuality record deals are more along the lines of distribution deals in getting the music out to itunes, spotify etc..  Sure there's artwork and a and a few things for a hard copy, but printing and packaging can be done in less than a week.  Even if the tracks for an album haven't been to mastering, that is a quick process as well and can be completed in a matter of days. There is no reason to make excuses for them.  Guns N' Roses "the entity"  just don't like to talk to the press.  Just like Van Halen doesn't like to talk.  It can be frustrating for the fans of those bands but in actuality they just don't care what anyone thinks so fans bitching and complaining doesn't actually do any good.  The one thing it might do is  make one feel better to  publicly voice your displeassure with everyone, and I mean everyone has the right to do that, and there is nothing wrong with that. The only way to get the public voice across, is with your pocket book. From the looks of things you(the people) are, as the US dates of the tour are selling horribly.  The important thing to remember is to just live life to the fullest cause life is too short!  
_all's fair in Rock N" Roll!!

"Geffen planned to release Chinese Democracy in 1999, it was delayed and completely re-recorded in 2000. With costs reportedly exceeding $13 million, it became the most expensive rock album ever produced, and Geffen pulled their funding in 2005. After missing a release date for March 2007, it was finally released in November 2008, dogged by leaks and legal disputes"Could you blame the record company for not wanting another album after the fiasco with Chinese Democracy.

All irrelevant now

Universal Music put out the AFD box set during the tour. So they did benefit from the exposure of NITL already.

No, I didn't say the record company is holding up anything. I just said both parties need to agree on when to release music. That's all. You can't have only one part wanting to do it.





/jarmo

I slightly disagree, and I have worked with, been with, or, talked to, this band, Iron Maiden, Def Leppard, most 80s band, The Strokes, Slipknot, Weezer, NIN etc.. film directors, all the main festivals, and Livenation, AEG and Metropolis, and Universal Music themselves for a couple of years and I am still part of their internal database.

Sounds sensible.

Rolling Stone has had ZERO credibility ever since it gave Zeppelin negative reviews

Speaking of the stairway to heaven  :D https://www.wsj.com/articles/for-albums-the-stairway-to-heaven-goes-via-ticket-sales-11565343003

Look who they are quoting, hi Merck.  I have to say, I liked getting the Jack White cd with my concert ticket.  I was able to enjoy those songs when they were played lived and was looking forward to hearing them.

Yeah, I'm with you on that (in terms of the label still having a LOT of influence on when/how music gets released).


My 2 cents is: The label system sucks, and they are still in complete control of music.  It's dying, but it's dying slowly.  Artists are wresting control (more and more) but Guns has a legacy contract.  I can see why there might be some wrangling going on.

Every instance cited here.....the label signed off on. It was not the artist thumbing their nose at their label and it's control of their music.  And there was label opportunity and money to be made in every case. Apple paid Universal a SHIT TON of money, and agreed to a 100 million dollar marketing campaign, to get that U2 album. Radioheads "pay what you want' was considered a label experiment to combat falling album sales (and generated an average price of about $8 in the US).

You can't just poo poo and ignore the influence the label has on an artist and their ability to release music.  I have no earthly clue if that is effecting GnR's overall release strategy or not.  But it is most certainly "a thing". 

I can certainly see that, after a very successful and lucrative tour, the label now wants their payday.  And they want to maximize the money it can make on a release....so they want to release it in a different way, or during a timeframe they think will result in more exposure, or more sales (less competition).

And I can certainly see an interpretation of Slash's comments....who is pretty reliable...to be that they have the material ready.  They're just waiting on the label to put together the marketing and release plans.

Maybe not.  But you can't dismiss the theory without completely ignoring how the label system actually works.

Good post….but then there is that X factor....A-X-L.  :hihi:

Way to prove you didn't even read it; they took accountability. You know, like a credible outlet does.


Oh look, another reply from somebody that didn't even read the link.

LOL, "ok boomer"? I'm a Millennial, smartass. What does this have to do with boomers anyway?

Nobody said the story was correct or that simply being a reporter makes them correct. Why are you arguing with a strawman?

And if you'd actually read the link, you'd know it's far more than just an apology...

"As we asked ourselves how we could have gotten the story wrong, we decided the only responsible and credible thing to do was to ask someone from outside the magazine to investigate any lapses in reporting, editing and fact-checking behind the story. We reached out to Steve Coll, dean of the Columbia School of Journalism, and a Pulitzer Prize-winning reporter himself, who accepted our offer. We agreed that we would cooperate fully, that he and his team could take as much time as they needed and write whatever they wanted. They would receive no payment, and we promised to publish their report in full."

Why don't you tell us what you consider quality journalism being done today?

P.S. Are you trying to make a point? Is it that public perception equates to a legitimate appraisal of journalistic integrity? Because bringing up Rather actually proves the opposite; that the public will sour based on one mistake despite a career of integrity. People are human, they make mistakes. Writing off somebody or an entire outlet for one mistake as if you don't make countless mistakes in your own life is hilariously narcissistic.

LOL, not liking a band that you like has what exactly to do with credibility? Are you aware of what that word means?

As someone who was in the news business for almost twenty years (no longer in the business) and worked at metropolitan papers made one TV station, I can say without a doubt you’re last two posts are well-informed and correct. RS is a top notch journalistic magazine. Do they cover some silly shit? Yeah sure they do but they’ve always had great political and investigative reporters/writers.

All news agencies make mistakes and the good ones (most not associated with Fox News and general dipshit bloggers) acknowledge their mistakes and run corrections.

No real reporter sets out to intentionally write an erroneous story. That said, some people can discern the difference between the editorial/opinion side and the news side.

Permission to land,

  I could go on and on but who cares.  You have an opinion and I have an opinion life goes on. Bygones....Unlike most people today I would find a common ground and break bread with anyone to find a middle ground.

Ps ok boomer, was a joke. Watch undercover boss Kylo ren revisited on you tube.

No point in arguing with him.  He attacks anyone who has a different opinion.  Kinda reminds me of someone he actually despises...

He’s a cyber bully.  

Watch, he’ll come after me now. 

The credibility of Rolling Stone is kinda irrelevant.


It doesn't change the content of the article. Which I think is just filler. Nothing of substance....





/jarmo

They're not wrong. I mean, I love GNR, but the touring has been going for a couple of years now. It wouldn't hurt to have something new, besides a cover, or Think About You. Hell, at this point, they're all in their 50s, albums don't even sell anymore, just half ass something in the studio over a weekend and release it. At least then you could have a few new songs to play on tour. It has to feel really repetitive at this point for the guys in the band — playing the same songs over and over and over. Hell, it's not like you can just continue listening to the same stuff over and over without getting tired of it. I couldn't imagine having to play it again and again, for years at a time.

Objectively speaking, the RS article does kinda have a point.

Of course it does.  But easier attacking the messenger than actually confronting the message.

The point being that the band is staying active? Sure.


Guns N’ Roses rolled out yet another leg of their reunion tour earlier this week that will bring them to stadiums across North America throughout the summer.

The first sentence says a lot.

For an article that later states: Guns N’ Roses haven’t announced any fun surprises for this next leg of the tour it sure assumes at first and then sticks to facts later.


First they assume it's the same tour ("yet another leg") and then stick to what they know, which in this case is close to nothing.....




/jarmo

It's time for new music, can't keep playing same 30 songs over the last 4 years.

Oh, I think you can.  Face it.  These tickets are being sold based off the old catalog.

Hard to say, I do wonder how tickets are selling.  At this rate, with no creative album endeavors infusing things, we could be on our way to the 2022 Vegas Residency "Appetite For Chinese Illusions....Live!!".

They are not flying blind here.  They have data that supports placement in these size venues.

I’m confident something new will be released.  They know stadiums can’t happen again without it. 

If nothing new, I say basically shows sell half as well.  Even with something new, it would be hard to sell stadiums as well as last go around...unless they put out something really good, promote the shit out of it.....and have a huge supporting act.

For many people, seeing them for the first time in years is good enough.  Especially at this stage in their careers.  I say if they expect to sell out a good portion of stadiums again, they are gonna have to do something big. 

My realistic guess.  They do put out new material....it’s good.  However, they still don’t sell these stadiums out.

Well they have changed the setlist a bit since 2016. The hits have been in the set since they reunited, but other than that they have added and changed the deep cuts and covers.

I don't know who expects them to just stop playing most of the set because they have new music out. I don't think the core of the set will change unless they make a decision not to play any of the most popular songs for some reason.





/jarmo

I agree with Jarmo. If they did that it would be commercial suicide. The casual fanbase would dry up and they would go from stadiums to playing to a hundred folks in a bar. Think about it, in a stadium of 50,000, what percentage is hard core fanbase? 5%? 10%? I doubt it is higher than 10-15% but of course that is debatable and I'm sure that will set off a string of replies. But the point is, GNR is who they are and that is based on what they are known for: AFD and UYI. The casual fan could not care less about new music.

In fact, here's a humorous little anecdote for you. I was at the 2012 Vegas show when they filmed the DVD. Was on the floor, a little over half way back. I was talking to a couple who just happened to be in Vegas when they heard GNR was playing. So the show starts. Three songs in, the guy nudges me and mouths "where is Slash?" and because the music was loud, I just shrugged. No way to explain the backstory. So they left after 3 songs, as soon as Better began.

So there you have it.

Setlist from the one off show in Miami:

Setlist: It’s So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Chinese Democracy, Welcome To The Jungle, Slither, Better, Estranged, Live And Let Die, You’re Crazy (slow version), Rocket Queen, You Could Be Mine, Shadow Of Your Love, You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory/Attitude, Civil War, Dead Horse, Double Talkin’ Jive, Band Intros, Slash Solo/Sweet Child O' Mine, November Rain, Break to fix the in ear monitors, Only Women Bleed (instrumental)/Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Nightrain

Encore: Jam/Patience, The Seeker, Paradise City


23 or so songs.

Now let's remove all the "deep cuts" that aren't on AFD or Greatest Hits:

Setlist: It’s So Easy, Mr. Brownstone, Welcome To The Jungle, Live And Let Die, Rocket Queen, You Could Be Mine, Civil War, Slash Solo/Sweet Child O' Mine, November Rain, Only Women Bleed (instrumental)/Knockin' On Heaven's Door, Nightrain

Encore: Jam/Patience, Paradise City


That's basically a show in itself already! Now it's tougher to remove songs since most of these are pretty known by the masses who buy tickets.





/jarmo

So....What the fuck are we debating here exactly?  The merits of GNR releasing/playing new music on this tour? This is a GNR fan forum.  There should be only 1 firm answer to that in here.  Anything else and you're selling something.

Good points Jarmo, but I think if they play 3or 4 new songs, it won't effect the setlist dramatically. I just feel that new music will increase ticket sales instead of playing the same songs for the last 4 years. I did see a commercial for the tour, they mentioned a new chapter, it's gotta be new music.

Keep the classics, mix up the set list like how they did during the illusion days, release an EP or an album and play 3-4 songs at the shows. It’s not hard really is it?

They also put the Boston Bomber on a cover a guy who killed children. That screams zero credibility

Heck, I remember those shows - even after CD was released - when they'd play a non-classic song, and a ton of people left to use the bathroom or to get another beer. That was back in the days when they'd play arenas but the floor seats would be removed and it was standing room only. There's a reason the Rolling Stones play "Satisfaction" at every show even though Mick hates it.

True.

I wasn't saying they won't change anything. Just pointing out that a majority of the setlist between 2016 and last month has been the kind of songs thousands of people want to hear at every arena/stadium show.

Many of them don't care if there's a Locomotive, Dead Horse, There Was A Time, Prostitute or a new song in the set. The rest of us, that's another matter. :D




/jarmo

Yeah, I don’t think anyone is saying to not play their hits.  We’re just saying something new (3-5) songs, along with a new album should really help things this go around.

Or fuck it, if the album is really good....play more.  Get people to transition from old stuff, to new stuff.  Get them interested in new material and help your legacy.  Still plenty of time in a show to play your major hits.

It's about optics.

A few honest to god new songs beat back the impression this isn't just the same tour some of us have seen 2, maybe 3 times.

It makes it seem like this is a current band.  And not just dudes cranking out the same tunes from when a lot of us were in high school.

I agree, it's hard to say...but only in the sense that we don't know what their expectations were.

I checked Philly and Metlife.  There look to be PLENTY of tickets available for sale, across all the price ranges. With good sized groupings together (4 or 5 isn't hard to find).

They are selling tickets, for sure.  They are not selling tickets at the rate they did in 2016 in most of these stadiums.

You all can infer and argue what that actually means.

Edit: I looked a little closer at all the shows.

It looks like Nats Park, Fenway, and Wrigley, are sell outs.  Their capacities are 30 to 40k (as opposed to the 60k-ish you see in the bigger football stadiums).

Bobby Dodd at 55k looks to be a sell out. So does Grizzly Stadium at 25k.

The rest of the big stadiums all look to have plenty of tickets available in a variety of price ranges (not resale) in a variety of sections.

Here's where we agree:

If GnR released a new single tomorrow, that turned into a heavy rotation (whatever the equivalent of that is, today) "hit" AND some promise of a new collection of music for the near future (an album, an EP, regular single releases, whatever the label thinks is going to make them the most money).....they would likely sell out (or very close to it) every show they have scheduled in the U.S., and quickly.

I suspect though, going into the summer, they're eventually going to get very close to that mark, in terms of ticket sales, anyway.  Maybe not as quickly.  But I think they get there.

We'll see.

Philly can be a tough city for gnr since wmmr soured it’s audience against them.

Employing Matt Taibbi alone gives them my respect.

It's pretty clear that all of this hyperbolic hatred coming at them is purely politically motivated and not genuine good faith criticism. As they proved with their responses...


Classic bullying tactic; call the other person a bully to gaslight them.

You can't respond on the facts so you resort to personal insults by calling me a bully (without anything to back it up).

Where is your logical rebuttal, if you're no troll or bully? Because without a logical argument, your comment is nothing but a personal attack. You know, the thing that bullies do. Who do you think you're fooling?


... and? Again, I am forced to ask if you know what the word "credibility" means. You could argue it's lacking in tact, maybe, if you didn't even read the freaking article it was attached to... enough of this fake virtue signaling BS. You don't like what you perceive to be their politics, just be honest about it.

It's nothing wrong in not releasing anything new, like for example Billy Joel, it's fine. If they keep coming back I'll go next time. Nothing wrong with entertainment and enjoying live music. :beer:

Correct, but those song weren't played even back in the days.. I mean, those are hardcorde fan songs, obviously. But IF the new songs of a NEW, TRUE Gnr Album (chinese democracy wasn't perceived as a gnr album) are good or even great they can stay in a new fresh setlist. It depends on the quality of the songs and the reaction of the mainstream public. Un can get rid of all the useless covers. Khod has become a torture nowadays, really  :confused:.

I'm not sure the public reaction matters that much on which new songs they would play. I suspect it's more about the the band feels like playing.


This reminds me. November Rain was an unknown new song when I saw GN'R in 1991. I'm sure some in the audience would have preferred to hear something from AFD instead.  :hihi:





/jarmo

Fair.  But NYC (OK, it's Jersey, but still) has, historically, been huge for them.  They ended up adding a show at Metlife the first time.  They've done well there throughout the bands history.

They're selling tickets.  They just seem to be selling them slower than they did last stadium go round.

That's my contribution.  I'm not going to debate the hows and whys.  Just pointing out what actually seems to be happening.

They had a new song on the set list last year.

It wasn't played though.





/jarmo

Yeah - it's interesting to compare peoples attitudes to things back then with the general insatiable thirst for nostalgia that dominates, really, the whole music industry now.

In the past people seemed a lot more willing and open to hearing new things, or things that were outside their 'comfort zone'. It's very different now - people seem almost threatened or angered by the idea of seeing a band and them 'playing things we didn't know'. The pressure is definitely on acts to live in the past, as it's what sells.

Tickets weren't $300 either.

It's what has trapped the Stones.  You charge arm and a leg, it does restrict the chances you can take.

Release a single and play the single. One song is a start.  : ok:

It also changes your demographic considerably. You replace more forward-thinking younger or less rich people with the wealthy, corporate and older. Their demands and expectations are very different.....and very much more conservative. You make attending concerts a 'status symbol' for bragging rights, rather than an outlet for creativity. I think people sometimes miss that that change has been pretty seismic in how concerts are perceived by people.

My second concert ever was in 1999, tom petty echo tour, every time he played songs of that album the arena empty for beer and bathroom breaks or people stopped singing along to talk to their neighbor. This sticks in my head because I had heard most of the album played earlier in the week during an interview with petty where he discussed the stories behind some of the songs, and had already become familiar with what I liked off that interview.

Nostalgia isn’t a huge thing now, it’s the way it’s always been. If you’re a huge act with a ton Of radio play, the concert goers expect to hear those radio hits. Most people would digest their music that way. And now with iTunes, you can even limit your purchase to just what you know. No need to be familiar with a whole album.

Apparently, repairing a NASA space station is less logistically difficult to accomplish in 2020 than GNR dropping a single. Fact.

Fair point....it's always been there, but I think it's been ramped up considerably in the last, say 5-10 years within the music industry. People seem less and less open to anything new - which I think does come, as you say, from the way things are consumed now. Why spend the time getting to know and appreciate new material when you can just bang on the old hits?

It also drives me fucking mental when people trot out the "oh, there's no good new music anymore" line. The moment you utter that you know you're a fucking dinosaur!

Hyperbole.

But you can't simply ignore that there IS complexity to the process of dropping new music, simply because it's less complex than repairing a space station.

I'm going to assume you don't understand the complexity of repairing a NASA space station.  I know I don't.  But I would assume it's super complex.  And I wouldn't be willing to guess how long it would take someone to do it, or exactly "how complex" that super complex is.  Still, yes, people manage to do it.

I'm also going to assume you don't actually understand the complexity of releasing new music in the industry today, or how cantankerous dealing with the label is.  I have SOME insight into this, from relationships I have and have had from (long) past professional endeavors, but I don't understand ALL it's complexity. Just what I have heard about, anecdotally, from the artists,  marketing and A&R side.  And, again (with that tiny bit of knowledge), I wouldn't be willing to guess exactly how long it would take for someone to overcome that complexity, or guess exactly "how complex" it might be. I think it varies, wildly, by artist, and even by album. And still, yes, some people manage to do it.

You seem to think GnR should be able to overcome any complexity in a time frame you think is appropriate, based on what you THINK is other bands release time lines.  But the truth is...you likely have no idea how long the A&R/label pieces of those releases took.  Hell, Green Day was done recording in mid July, mixed it by August, had their first single released in September....and the album came out 4 days ago.

Lets be clear: The album has been done for about 6 months.  It was released when it was because...the label set that date. Set all the dates, really, for release (even the single).

I would say that GnR, because of the age of their contracts, the "dormancy" of Guns n Roses the partnership (vs the name), the lineup change for the last album (and the potential contract mods made to handle THAT) and a bunch of other factors introduce complexity that might not be present for bands that have been eternally active, with an ongoing cohesive line up.  Those things may have to be worked out to account for things like streaming revenue, digital sales by platform, and redefining some legacy terms in a more modern context.  If those things exist (and yes, I'm acknowledging "if")...they have to be addressed.

I would also say that, given their resurgence and "profitability" of NITL.....and the relatively disappointing amount of money Chinese brought in...the label is going to look especially hard for their pound of flesh....I mean....gold ducats.  The label is going to want to control the release date to maximize sales/profitability/exposure. They are going to want to control how new music is introduced to the public, commercially (they can't do much about the live shows). And the band is likely going to have little to say in that piece of the process.  So, Fernando saying "6 months" may have been with an understanding the album would turn around quickly upon completion (which may have been what the label indicated).  That could have changed.

Take Slash's comments as encouraging.  Their part sounds like it's done, or nearly so. His comments give a clear indication, to me, that he means they're working with the label to determine the specifics.  The music sounded like it was done (which is the part we always worry about, yeah?).  Yes, it sucks that we might have to wait on the label (if there's an actual delay, and if the label are the reason).  But we have 6 weeks before Fernando's comments "expiration date".  I'm willing to wait and see. YMMV.

I'm rather sure Rolling Stone is the same rag that had a "100 Top Guitarists" list that had Jack White higher on the list than Slash and Eddie Van Halen, among others. That was the day I cancelled my subscription.  ::)

The thing with Guns is they have always had a way of wringing out every last dime of their work. Maybe because they experienced extreme poverty? How many singles came off of the Illusion records? I mean it was years worth of singles and videos that came off of those. By the time The Garden was released, even most diehard GNR guys were ready for something new.

This Appetite anniversary thing ... there's all these different options that range from $25 to $200 or more for buying it. Sure you get lots of demos, but demos are just a curiosity, an interesting piece of band history, not new music. And the dirty secret is most of us have heard this stuff before anyway.

This reunion tour is the same thing. It's roughly the same setlist that band has been touring with since the Chinese Democracy days. Sure things are reordered here and there, and a new cover is dropped as someone in the music industry dies, and maybe a different song from the library is put in here or there, but for the most part, it's been the same show for years. I guess we got Shadow of Your Love, so that's something, I guess. A 30-year-old song with an official release is something.

It seems like they know they can wring out money from people by touring, but releasing new music from a financial standpoint is a losing situation. It'll never be fall of 1991 again. Most people don't buy music, they stream it on a service, download it, YouTube it, but very rarely pay for it.

That's one theory. They don't want to go to the effort to release new music if they can't make money off of it.

The other theory is that things are going good. They sound great, they look great, they're raking in the dough on this tour. So why screw it up by trying to put an album together? All of the sudden you're dealing with differing opinions, you're having to collaborate and communicate, you have to make sacrifices, you have to make concessions, egos start getting in the way. I don't want that guitar part there, I think that lyric isn't what we should be saying in 2020, why are we using a drum machine on this track? I want more ballads. I want more rockers. I want it to be more punk, or techno, or old fashioned rock, or how about we work in some bluegrass?

This is the one I favor. I wonder if they don't cut new music because the relationships are good, and having to actually creatively collaborate could ruin that and cause it all to tumble down again, and no one is young enough to wait another 20 years for the next reunion.

Questions to those who doubt the band wants to release new music in 2020:

- Why did they announce tours using the term the next chapter as well deciding not to use the NITL name?

- Why is it assumed that the band has no idea about what will generate more interest in their upcoming shows, (like they don't know new music would create buzz) that they just announce shows and intend to keep the show the same?





/jarmo

- "The next chapter" promises nothing.  It's just ambiguous enough where if nothing materializes they (or you) can say that nothing was ever promised, stop complaining.  And if by some miracle it does, they (or you) can say "See, we told you this was the next chapter!".  Mind you, I'd gladly accept someone wagging their finger at me saying "I told you so!" if it means new GNR music.

-For better or for worse, if GNR keeps the same tour structure, they'll slip neatly into the category of nostalgia/legacy act.  Their back catalog, at the very least, can keep them in arenas for the next decade or so without having to change the setlist much. I'm sure based on ticket sales over the last 4 years they understand this.  

Yeah I’m not seeing that.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/RollingStone100GreatestGuitaristsOfAllTime

Nothing? Mr Positive!
Surely it must mean it's not the same tour as NITL? Or otherwise they could have used the familiar name...





You also assume this is what the band wants.....

The fact that they played Dead Horse and Locomotive last year tells me otherwise. They don't mind to change the show, but since the tour was still NITL, it made sense to keep the core the same.





/jarmo

Well, based on the information we have as of today, which is nothing, I guess it will mean "something" if that elusive album just drops.  Then yeah, it will totally one hundred percent mean "something".  But until then we're talking in semantics. 

As far as being positive, this is a band that has put out 1 album in nearly 30 years. So I guess one man's "realist" is another mans "Mr. Positive". As always, time will tell.

Maybe it means a different show, a different set list.... And new music!





/jarmo

We'll find out for sure in a month. Here's hoping!

The European tour starts in May.....

South American tours in the past haven't really been an exact indication of how the rest of the tours will be.



/jarmo

I'm not sure what magic wand is going to wave in between tour legs this year to suddenly change things up, but I sure hope it does. I really want to be optimistic for new music, but once bitten and all that...

Is this a ranking or just a list? Because putting Alex Lifeson in the 90s.... his solos on their first album that he wrote as a teenager already blows some of these guys out of the water.

I am definitely feeling more positive about new music after seeing Jarmo’s comments above, or at least cautiously optimistic. But, even if we are to assume that new music is coming, it seems a wasted opportunity for GnR not to announce an album around the same time as the tour. From a business perspective this has to make most sense?

And this why I can’t get beyond being anything other than very cautiously optimistic about a new record.

My guess is that it’s a ranking since it’s not in alphabetical order. I mean it’s all subjective. I guess my point is someone said something that didn’t appear right so I looked it up.

Magazines (and websites) love to do "Top" rankings because they cause controversy and get people talking about the publication.

And as NaturalLight proved, that is not true. But even if it were... so what? It's all subjective, and how are you defining "top"? Does that mean technical proficiency or melodic groove or influence on the music scene? Or any number of other things?


It is indeed a ranking, one voted on by a large group of themselves well respected musicians (Ironically, I bet a lot of people complained that Ritchie Blackmore was left out, not knowing he was one of the voters!). Check it out:


Edit: Just saw Alex Lifeson was one of the voters. I think that probably explains it; they were all afraid to vote for anyone who was part of the voting group. Despite that, they seemed to feel a need to include Lifeson precisely because he's so influential.

I think the fact that there's not a lot of time between the Latin American tour and the start of the European leg, could mean that the production used on the European leg could be different from Latin America.

That could mean a different show in Europe and North America compared to Latin America.





/jarmo

OK, fair enough.

Are you willing to circle back at year's end and see how it went?  And, if not, would it lead you to say that the point you made had no merit, ultimately, because it didn't happen?

Is that some unfair ask?

Right now, you are playing on the unknown.  Which is fine.  You are capitalizing on what might be.  But once that time comes and goes, you either have results that back up your suggestion...or you don't.  It can't be both. 

There is no "Well, we don't know what happened.  Can't say either way."  There is, "Well, I guess I was wrong.  That thing I was heavily suggesting before the tour did not pan out."

Guess I have my answer to the above post.  No consequences to what is put out there.

Lame.

I think a big part of the issue as  to why the tickets are not selling as fast as the 2016 concert at MetLife might be due to a big  year in concerts. I'm not sure about where you grew up or lived, but I've lived in North Jersey my entire life. I don't ever remember a year where there are a plethora of mainstream bands playing. Motley Crue/Def Leppard/Poison/Joan Jett is playing at Citi Field this summer. You have Bon Jovi playing at MSG, which I'm also going to. Godsmack/Halestorm playing at Prudential in April, which is another concert I'm going to.  Pearl Jam is playing MSG in March. Rage Against the Machine at MSG in August.  Rammstein at MetLife in September.  Whitesnake/Sammy Hagar at PNC in August.  Alanis Morrisette and Garbage also at PNC. Billy Joel.

 I think the market is just over saturated this year compared to last year. I really don't think concert promoters realized how many artists they booked this year.

Spot on.

Only so many dollars to go around.  People prioritize.  They have to.

I kind of feel that whenever I’m concert buying all the big acts always seem to pick the same year to tour for me, but I could be remembering it wrong, I’d have to go through my ticket stubs.

It does feel that way looking at the press releases

I have no problems admitting to being wrong.

I still think there's plans for new music, and a different kind of show for 2020.


Because of what I posted earlier.





/jarmo

Can't say fairer than that really folks.

I'm totally on the fence about this one- I see the debate from both sides. Time alone will tell.......

Agreed.  That's a fair answer.

This is a fair answer, well done Jarmo.

Don't know about that list, but it definitely happened.   :confused:

Don't talk yourself off of this point.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.   :smoking: :confused: :smoking: :confused:

I don't ever remember a year like this where there are so many bands and music artists coming to the NJ/NYC area. Maybe the late 80s/early 90s. In the early 90s, my parents only allowed me to go see one concert, which was GNR.   One thing that I forgot to mention last night is that Ozzy is playing at MSG. Most likely, this is it for him. People might be spending money to get a last chance in seeing him.

So completely hypothetical question if GNR played ONE new song on this upcoming tour would that satisfy you personally to spend the money to see them? Just curious as to people's thoughts. Or would you want more then just 1 to deem it worthy?

I would hope they would play at least 3 new songs.

Then prove it. Where is your evidence? The burden of proof is on you and we've done all the legwork here...

1 new song would be enough for me but only because I didn't see them on NITL. If I had, I would want at least 2-3 new songs.

Absolutely, and that’s what continues to temper whatever slight optimism that I have.

See a lot of conflating new music with the tour itself

Not about that for me

100% would take a new album over seeing them tour for another year.

If there is not a new album - going to spend $ on the show really is not impacted by the desire to hear one or two new songs played live.

I will go and see them for the 3rd time since Slash and Duff came back. No problem.
Am I happy that they have not released a new album at this point? - nope
Does that fact change me wanting to see my favorite band? - nope

But what also does not change is that when I first heard about Slash and Duff coming back, I wanted the next Gnr album that I never got after the Illusions. I expected a huge tour and then an album I can take with me for the rest of my life's soundtrack. I did not expect them take a break, and go out and do stadiums again..lol
But there seems to be many folks here who believe they have something ready but are being held back by outside forces & I hope they are right.

Is what it is - sorry longwinded
Hope answered the question you were asking   :peace:

Btw - as for the setllist - For God's sake - they play 3 hours and cover a ridiculous number of songs -and both times I've seen them they've been tremendous shows - but changing up the first 6 or 7 songs would be my only hope

like people who go on a message board every day of their lives for 5 or 10 years to complain about a band not releasing new music?

Some people like to watch the world burn

 :hihi:

OMFG, PERFECT!   :hihi: :rofl:

Personally, I would like a bunch of new songs. But I'm sure the general audience don't. I love CD,  but whenever a CD song was played in my last 6 shows, it seems as though I was the only person, apart from the band, who actually knew the songs...
On the other hand, I would go every week and listen to the same show over and over again... that is how good a GnR concert is! :peace: 

Listen, old legacy rock acts just have no idea how to release new music. It is virtually impossible. It CAN'T be done!!

Meanwhile, from Stereogum: Pearl Jam first teased their upcoming album Gigaton via a worldwide augmented reality scavenger hunt. And they are once again proving that they are young and hip and know what augmented reality is by teasing their new single using the same technology.

Pitchfork report that Pearl Jam’s new song “Superblood Wolfmoon,” the follow-up to Gigaton’s lead single “Dance Of The Clairvoyants,” won’t hit streaming services until 2/18. But if you go to moon.pearljam.com on your mobile phone and point it at the moon (or maybe a bright light?), you can hear a preview.

Here's a another thought that this article somehow managed not to think of....

The tour was called Not In This Lifetime. It basically had five North American legs (April 2016, summer stadium leg 2016, summer stadium leg 2017, arena leg late 2017, arena leg late 2019).

So now the upcoming tour will visit some of the same cities that were visited in 2016 and/or 2017. On the NITL tour the return visits were in arenas (LA, NYC, Chicago etc).



My point is, if you tour on a reunion tour for the first time since 1993, some will go because of that reason alone. Now you can't make all those people to go again in 2020 using the same reason.

Add to that the fact that nowhere has the promoter or band used the Not In This Lifetime name for these upcoming shows.

I'm only assuming like the rest here, but I assume Live Nation and the band know they won't be able to use the same "this is the reunion tour that you never saw coming" selling point forever. Yet this article, and many others are assuming they are doing just that.... Only because the band didn't say otherwise.




/jarmo

But if they are touring to promote new music, don't you think it would be wise to, you know, set the record straight and simply say that's the case?  If they did that, articles like this would not even exist.  We keep saying that Europe it being touted as "The Next Chapter" but that's wildly ambiguous, and hardly makes new music an obvious given.

Even if new music somehow materializes, we really won't have much for anyone to circle back and say "See, it was so obvious!".

Makes little sense to say it's promoting new music unless you also announce when the new music is coming.

Especially in February, when the tours are in the summer.



/jarmo

I would say it's a bit more common for album and tour announcements to go hand in hand, if not, tour announcement most often come AFTER the album or at least a single drops.  So you can't entirely blame them for making the assumption that this tour will be more of the same.  And, of course, if no album comes during the tour they will have been right. 

Obviously, I'm rooting for the album, but I can't say they're wrong until we know for sure.

The goal is to sell as many tickets as possible BEFORE the show dates in July (for the US leg, anyway).

How many they sell in February isn't really all that important. Nor are the articles at this point.  They just don't really matter.  Because the minute new music was released or announced...it would be completely irrelevant.

So if you assume they are going to announce or release music before the shows.....as long as you're giving ticket buyers enough advance notice of that (and I'd say 30 to 45 days would be considered "enough"), you're fine.  That means...by early to mid April for the Euro tour, and mid to late May for the US leg.

And yes, I know the argument is going to be: But people will make plans for the summer, and some people won't go.

I don't think that effects their overall attendence.  I really don't.  There are enough people that will jump at tickets if they announce new music that the competitive considerations will be a non-factor.

I can point out their lack of logic. I don't think anything you posted invalidated what I posted. Your response was just: But why didn't they say there's new music. Doesn't change anything I said though.....


Maybe they had to announce the shows already because it was the most optimal time to do so?

I've seen the other alternative when shows are announced too close to the show dates, and then it's a "but we didn't get any advance warning" kind of thing.




/jarmo

Jarmo, we both love GNR and would both flip out if a new album dropped. We want the same thing here.  You're simply giving them the benefit of the doubt, while I'm a bit more apprehensive due to not wanting to get my hopes up after 12 years post Chi Dem rooting for new music.  That's really all this is.

To add: Ticketmaster has some say as to when tickets go on sale for a tour like this.  They know stuff like this can overwhelm their infrastructure, and so they scatter on sale dates to offset load.

Add that to the fact TM has to be able to distribute tickets in a traditional, as well as digital, way.  

So the on sale date is not 100%  in the band (or the promoters) hands.  

Sure.

I've said it elsewhere multiple times, we have different points of view.

Some mistake that for some kind of fear of saying the wrong things, when in reality I say what I think.... I just happen to think differently.




To compare, the first summer leg of the NITL tour wasn't announced until the day of the first surprise show in April 2016. The summer 2017 dates were announced in December 2016....



/jarmo

Exactly. 

It's not that the band/promoter get NO say in when stuff goes on sale.  But they don't get complete say, either.  The promoter will tell TM they have a tour to sell (which TM likely already know considering LiveNation controls so many venues), TM will get back to them with options for on sale dates, and the band/promoter will get to pick.

Sometimes shows go on sale WAY in advance.  Sometimes not so much.  People look at stuff like this and wonder why its so different.  That's pretty much why. Some of it has to do with when the promoter gets all the venues booked and lets TM know they have a tour.  Some of it is TM load balancing and scheduling their whole slate of events.

In short, there's a lot of moving parts when it comes to choosing an on sale date.  Sometimes an album announcement is secondary to "someone else's" needs.

I already wrote this elsewhere, but there's no way Live Nation would've booked another stadium tour in the US if the band wasn't planning on playing new music. There's just no way.

No matter how reliable a Guns tour is these days, Live Nation needs another selling point to book another US stadium tour.

The reunion angle is done and dusted (and buried). Time to bring in something new.

Now, why hasn't new music been announced or promoted to help boost sales? It's too early. Live Nation probably expects 40-50% of the tickets will be sold before April-May. I think Guns can still sell half the capacity of most of those stadiums, we are not talking about Omaha here, this is NY, DC, Boston Chicago...so GUNS still can sell 20,000 tickets with the "name" alone.

By late spring, we will know for sure what the "plan" has been all along. I'm sure new music will have been played by then, maybe there's even a single release or a soundtrack around that time.

There has to be a plan.

I admire your optimism but the truth is that GnR will sell tickets whether there’s a new album or not. They’re still riding high on the reunion and it’s only a few hundred fans on the internet who are crazy about a new album

I have to disagree, GNR is having a hard time selling tickets in Toronto. If there is no new material, GNR will have a hard time selling out stadiums.

Let's say a show has a capacity of 50000. How many of those tickets would be sold to fans based on a new song being available on digital music services and played on rock radio?

Compared to how many of those tickets were sold based on the material that's already available.






/jarmo

I’d guess about 11 people per city.

😁


Different friends of mine said they wanted to go to the show when it was announced because they knew I’d be going. I bought 8 tickets for the NY show.

The idea or thought of a new GNR song couldn’t be further away from their thought process.

People on these boards which is 1 percent of 1 percent need to get a grip. No offense please.

I’m sure some of these shows won’t sell as well as 2016 but if it is that way it won’t be because there’s a new album or not ...But who cares .. just go and enjoy the show or don’t.

When you have three members playing shows together for the first time in over 20 years, it's special.

Next time they come to town, it's not the "first time in over 20 years" anymore. So if that was the only reason people bought tickets, maybe they won't do so again.

But there's still a lot of people who will go see the band because it's those three guys playing the songs the fans wanna hear.

I think the reason why tickets sold out so fast the first time was because it was that special. Now it's like it's happening again so no rush? Maybe it's less of an "event" you have to share on social media in 2020, so you got less casual rock fans going..... On top of that, many of the more casual fans might be waiting closer to the show to see what else they might spend their money on.





/jarmo

I'm a fan and will see them regardless. However seriously what's the big deal release some new music already it's not rocket science. I just don't understand it....my opinion is no new music this year especially after what slash said a namm a few weeks ago.

Don't know what he said, but I wouldn't read too much into it.

Slash got asked about a reunion several times within six months of the announcement, and none of the answers indicated anything imminent. I think they - meaning Axl, Slash and Duff, know how too keep their cards close and not to reveal any essential information until they agree upon making it public.

I’m hearing all over that ticket sales for this summer are struggling thus far. If the idea is for a release of some kind to bump up ticket sales, I would imagine it would need to happen sooner than later as I don’t see people buying tickets at the 11th hour just because they’re digging whatever single in say May or June for a July show. In other words I think it would need to sink into the public consciousness first to really make a difference.

I guess it is frustrating the lack of new music and no clear plans for release of new music.  We are lucky that GNR is touring but it is never easy seeing other bands put albums out and then tour.  In a perfect world this would happen but then again GNR is not like any other band I know.

Who knows how many more tickets would be sold, but it WOULD be more.  And the more you do, the more tickets sold.  Promotion, single(s), good single, on different formats (on airlines, in a commercial, digital music, radio, etc) will all help the cause. 

If the band is curious at all as to how many more tickets would sell with a new song, announcement of new album, etc.  then they should try it.  Let a couple more weeks go by with concert tickets up for sale, and then bust it all out.  When more tickets start to sell, you’ll have a good idea how it helps.  This may very well be their plan.  Maybe all along, they planned on having concert tickets go on sale (see how they sell) and then announce new music at later date...so they can gage today’s music world, and their place in it.

If this is their plan, I would imagine announcement sometime in March/April with single out around same time.  Although, earlier the better as it gives more time for new single to be heard, and possibly even second single to be released. 

More than I think you think. The most fair weather fans got their fill on NITL and will go off seeing other bands for a few years before they might think to see Guns again. So at this point, you have the die hards and the more general rock and metal fans, (of course with some amount of fairweather listeners who didn't see NITL). To appeal to the general rock audiences, a new single means A LOT. For me, I might fit into that camp with say Alice in Chains. I dig them like many rock bands but I'm not a hardcore fan. What would spur me to go see them is hearing a cool new single like that one Check My Brain from a while back. Especially if I've already seen them before (which is a fair assumption for a rock fan who bounces around to different rock acts often).

And personally, I skipped NITL because of the ticket prices and the fact that Axl was pretty worn out by the time they came around to Hartford. But also because I knew what the setlist would be; largely the same as the year and a half leading up to that. However, I am now considering the 2020 tour because of the possibility of new material. So my own attendance very much hinges of new material.

Of course.

Like I mentioned, the NITL tour sold tickets on the fact that it was the first.... So they didn't need a lot of promotion. Let's see what kind of promotion they do in 2020. :)




/jarmo

I wonder if the struggling US ticket sales will expedite some kind of announcement or perhaps a single?  I have to think there is some kind of plan in place in that regard, but can't understand it coming at the 11th hour where it's existence wouldn't really do much in the way of boosting struggling ticket sales.

The tour starts in July.

You release a single now and people will have forgotten about it once the tour starts....


There's still time.




/jarmo

You may very well be right.  I think now it comes down to how long before the tour kicks off do they want to launch the album.  A month? Two months?  Hard to say what makes the most sense in terms of impacting ticket sales.  Will be interesting to see how things play out.

It depends. For example how you want to release it. Just an album, or a single first? Multiple singles?

I think just a single will create a lot of buzz. Even for a tour.






/jarmo

I agree.  In my opinion, a new studio recording with Axl, Slash & Duff is even more of a miracle than the NITL tour, just because it's more personal in a way than live shows where everyone just shows up.  Even passive rock fans will be all ears.

Not sure which one is more of a miracle. It all comes down to people getting along. :)




/jarmo

I think putting out TWO singles before the tour and announcing an album would be best.  Two singles will draw more attention.  Think about previous albums.  Some people really liked Better, while some really liked Chinese.  Some really liked November Rain while some liked something else. 

Put out two contrasting songs to try and reach a larger audience.  All it takes is one of those songs for someone to become interested.

The first single has to be some ungodly dose of nastiness led by a Slash riff from hell.

I’ve got tickets booked in May, so this is likely to be the same show I saw in 2017? I know you’re not a spokesperson for the band but I bet there’s gonna be a few pissed off European fans if the new tour doesn’t start in earnest until the US dates

That's something I hand't considered yet.  Is it fair to have South American and European fans pay the same money only for a them to pump out the new show & new songs just for the U.S. dates?  Does that even make sense?  You'd think they'd want to have their house in order for the next record before they launch the SA tour so everyone can join in the new album/next chapter fun.

I don't expect it to be the same exact show. Considering the tour will visit some of the same cities as in 2017....





/jarmo

I think this stadium tour is likely just one last hooray for the band. They'll sell what tickets they can and then go their different directions.
Why release new music at this point? Why go to the effort of writing, recording and crafting an album that won't turn a profit when you can get millions by doing the same basic thing you've done for years?
Half the fan base will embrace it. The other half will cry that it doesn't make them feel the way Appetite did in 1987. They will be complaining about why didn't Steven Adler play drums, why isn't Izzy here, this is the worst thing ever. It's stupid, but that how people are. A lot of fans get toxic over time. No one hates new GNR music more than GNR fans. I typed, argued and tried to persuade people to give Chinese Democracy a chance for years, and it fell on deaf ears. Some people just want to be miserable. They will hate it because it didn't impact themselves and culture in general the same as the classic albums did, no matter the quality of the music.

I'd love to see new Guns music released, but frankly,  time is running out. Remember how long it took Chinese Democracy to materialize? From the first songs debuting during Rock in Rio in 2001, to 2008. And it was something that had been talked about for years prior to Rock in Rio.
So far no one has floated anything as concrete as an album title, a possible release date, a studio recording receipt, much less any songs. It'll take 10 years, I'll be in my 50s by then. Will I even care? The guys in the band will be in their 60s or 70s. What's the point? The fan base is going to start dying off as they'll be in their 50s, 60s and 70s as well.

If new music is coming, it needs to get here.

Good point. I usually hate the first single for almost every album because it's most often chosen by the label and is the most bland and simplistic track because that's what they think has mainstream appeal. By the 2nd or 3rd single, I hear something I actually like.


I'm going to say this is entirely different from CD. And plenty of people complained about Appetite when it came out. It is physically impossible to please everyone. The idea that that would affect releasing music is absurd.

As a matter of fact I’m pretty sure they had to release appetite twice before it started finding an audience.

If they don't release a new Album why then don't they release a best of with 2 or 3 new tracks or release a live Album/DVD, for a band that is so big worldwide the lack of official product they've released is staggering since The Live Era album in 99 there has only been 3 maybe 4 official releases for a band that once released 2 double albums in one day you'd think they and the record company would be saturating the market with all sorts of audio and visual boxsets.

Not sure if the record company can just release things without the band's approval. Greatest Hits was released without input from the band....




/jarmo

No thanks

I don't understand why ticket sales are struggling. According to Trump, the US is having the greatest economic expansion in its history. Blacks are better off, the poor are better, the rich are richer. We are all rolling in money all due to our wonderful King, Mr. Trump. So how come people are so price conscious and ticket sales are slow in some venues?

(For the record, I am being totally sarcastic. Trump is a serial liar and a fool. He has surrounded himself with sycophants who tell him everything is great when in fact the opposite is true.)

Ok, ok....

This isn't gonna turn into a Trump thread by the way.....

So if anyone is thinking about replying to the above, please use the thread in The Jungle!



/jarmo

thank you Jarmo!!!!! that could of gotten ugly

Hey now, don't be such a pessimist, it could still get ugly yet!

So...What's the point of this upcoming tour exactly?  I mean, I know initially we were sold the premise that they'd be touring to support new music in 2020, but now that the old GNR "bait and switch" is in full effect, are they just touring just for the sake of touring?  Which is fine, it'd just be nice if they had the balls to come out and say it.

What?





/jarmo

Allow me to elaborate. Both Slash and Fernando made numerous comments throughout 2019 that led fans to believe that any touring/activity in 2020 would be in support of new music. When this tour was announced they intentionally kept the promotion (The Next Chapter!) just vague and coy enough to convince some poor souls to pay the insane price of tickets in vain hope that maybe, just maybe, this tour would be something special/different.

With the world tour launching next week and still not a damn word on the new music front, we know better now, don't we?  That's what you call a "bait and switch" and it reeks of cowardice, unproffessionalism, and desperation to milk the fanbase you're well aware is hungry for new music, 12 years after Chinese Democracy.  I'll always love GNR's music, but that's just not an attitude that I, or anyone for that matter, should support.  

And honestly, that ticket sales are wildly underperforming, and now with rumors of outright cancellation due to Coronavirus, that is karma working at it's best.

I read “the next chapter” to mean that it’s being treated like a reformed Guns N’ Roses. nITL was the grand experiment to see how everyone would get along. It was successful, so now it’s about being a cooperative band again and seeing where that goes. doesn’t specifically mean new music, but could mean new music.

It could mean a myriad of things, and that was the point.  Pretty ball-less way to hype a tour you know is just going to be a retread of the last four years.

#1: Everyone buys concert tickets in hope of "something different"? I don't think so. I think a lot of people buy concert tickets to see a show. Maybe by their favorite band.

#2: One leg of the tour is starting next week. That part is true. The rest of your post is you repeating the same you've been repeating for months. When do you think you've had enough of posting the same over and over again in multiple threads? Just a friendly question. Because I honestly don't get why you keep doing it. You say you love GN'R, but GN'R frustrates you daily!





/jarmo

Yes, I know, you "don't get it" and I don't expect you to.  Long story short, I'm simply not as content as you apparently are to sweep Slash & Fernando's new album comments under the carpet trusting the ghost of what could be over the next six months.

Not sweeping anything anywhere.

I just know how things are. I have no control over when new music will come out. So getting frustrated about it seems kinda pointless to me. We got shows planned for 2020. That's exciting.

The way I see it is that the new music exists. And it'll come out when it's time. I haven't ruled out 2020 yet. It's March. Hell, I haven't ruled out March yet either!






/jarmo

I hope you're right! God knows we've waited long enough. As different as we are, I think you and I both are ready to change the channel on the conversations as of late.  :hihi: 

Jarmo, do you think any parts of the tour will be canceled due to the coronavirus.  I have tickets to MetLife stadium and hope everything will be okay.

I don't think anybody can answer that right now.  Do your part, cover your mouth when you cough, wash your hands and no sharing body fluids.  The body fluids probably doesn't apply to sex but no kissing.  :hihi:

 Probably yes, here in Italy people are pretty calm but our politicians are out of their minds...  we are 60.000.000 and we have 3.000,00 cases and media are hyping up this shit... Btw i haven't had a fuckin flue n the last 20 years, hope i'll get corona just to have a little bit of rest  :smoking:. Just sad for the people who died for this shit...

Let's hope everything is more or less back to normal before then.





/jarmo

It that matter, quick question. I'm planning to get tickets for Firenze Rocks. Do you think I should be waiting any longer or it's safe to buy? Just wondering what's your opinion as a local lad. :) Thanks in advance.

It's really a tough question BUT  I can say that all the PIT tickets are no longer available and all the other tickets (80 - 90 €) are the same, so you won't get a better place. I don't think they will sold out soon in any case, knowing that the day of the show is friday and that they still have to announce  all the support acts. I think u can wait till may without problems. ANd remember that we are talking about named tickets.

Thank you. Appreciated. I am more worried about the event itself and the coronavirus not the sold out. Anyways, thank you. Will buy soon, hopefully everything will be normal. :)

. No problem man . Btw i live in Lombardia, the next ‘red zone’ and Despite stupid media terror strategy, people here are very relaxed. The main problem is that hospitals can’t take care of the toughest cases if the thing spreads too much but, in generale, the virus is nothin more than a flu