Duff in BassPlayer mag March 04

[GypsySoul]

BASS PLAYER (mag) MARCH 2004 Issue

Welcome Back to the Jungle
Duff McKagan
RELOADS WITH VELVET REVOLVER

BY JOHN FERRANTE
PHOTOGRAPHS BY ANNAMARIA DISANTO

the scene: Late afternoon at a hit-making recording studio in North Hollywood.  Intense energy buzzes around the building.  A guitar player known as Slash sits inside the green room drinking coffee.  Duff McKagan emerges from Room A looking balanced and full of positive energy, having just completed tracking with Velvet Revolver, a powerhouse band featuring former members of Guns N? Roses (Duff, Slash, and drummer Matt Sorum) and former Stone Temple Pilots singer Scott Weiland - an explosive combination of talent and history, and a group of men not without their demons.

One of history?s most volatile and exciting bands, in the late ?80s Guns N? Roses brought it?s high-energy, sleazy blues riffs and attitude to a mass audience with huge hits like ?Welcome to the Jungle? and ?Sweet Child o? Mine.?  At a time when metal hair bands pumped out formulaic commercial pabulum, GNR provided a shot of honesty and reckless excitement into the music biz.  Unfortunately for their fans, the band?s best-known lineup self-destructed shortly afterward, scattering the members in various musical directions.

Since departing from the Roses camp, McKagan has been living in Seattle with his family, studying finance, and touring as a vocalist and rhythm guitarist with the band Loaded.  We sat down with Duff to discuss his new project.

Is your playing different with Velvet Revolver compared to GNR?
Bass is a very important element of a band; if done right, it can be awe-inspiring.  With Scott?s complex melodies, I can?t get in the way, so I am playing simpler.  Not that I?ve ever overplayed in the first place - I?m not going to dazzle you with really fast runs - but I might hold back on runs that I would have done before with Guns N? Roses.  I play more back in the pocket with Matt now.  The songs that we?ve written aren?t extremely difficult to play, but the most important part about them is that they all have this deep pocket, the deepest pocket I?ve ever played in.  It?s important for me to be in the pocket; if I?m not, then it?s all going to fall apart.  It?s all about the groove, man.

How would you describe the chemistry you have with Slash and Matt?
It?s intangible.  It goes all the way back to when Guns N? Roses formed - there was a different first lineup, with a different guitar player and a drummer, and it wasn?t great.  As soon as Slash and [drummer] Steven Adler joined, it clicked.  In the first five minutes we could tell; there was like electricity in the air.  After Adler, we went through a lot of drummers but we just weren?t finding that guy with the connection.  We finally saw Matt playing with the Cult; it was their last gig on the tour, and Slash and I went down to check it out.  We were blown away.  The three of us just have this special thing when we play together.

How did Velvet Revolver come together?
Slash, Matt, and I played at a benefit in Los Angeles for our friend Randy Castillo.  Josh Todd from Buckcherry got up and sang with us, as did Steven Tyler from Aerosmith.  It felt good to play with Slash and Matt again.  We had kind of forgotten about the chemistry we have together.

What is the Velvet Revolver sound?
Matt is always saying, ?We?ve got to keep it modern,? so he is always listening to records and coming up with great drum beats.  With him it?s easy just to find the groove, and then all of a sudden there?s the song.  Then Scott comes in and sings a melody.  He is a master melody writer; he can write a melody over a turd.  And [guitarist] Dave Kushner adds a whole other element; he?s got all these effects.  He is a classic rhythm guitarist.  To play with Slash you can?t play like Slash - you have to play in a whole different place. [Former GNR rhythm guitarist] Izzy Stradlin played completely different from Slash; when Slash was hitting down, Izzy was hitting up, and it worked.  Dave came in and knew what to do.  Whether our sound is modern or not, it?s our own thing.  It?s us.

How do you write songs?
It?s really a band process.  Nobody ever brings in a complete song.  Slash might have a riff and he?ll just start playing it.  Maybe we?ll play the exact same thing, or maybe we?ll turn it upside down.  Or Matt will start a drum beat, or I?ll bring in a bass thing.  It?s a band process.

Do you have a daily practice routine?
Hell no.  For me, playing bass without drums or other instruments - just to practice bass - is so unfulfilling.  It doesn?t make me any better of a player.  Instead, I?ll strum an acoustic guitar at home.  I like my playing to be a little rough around the edges.  I?m not technically the best bass player in the world, but I grew up with a musical family, so I know how to feel - and that?s so much more important than anything else.  I worry that if I get too good technically, I?ll lose something in my feel.

Do you stay up to date on music technology?
We recorded this album to tape, but we used Pro Tools as well.  Matt and Scott are great at it.  I try not to get caught up in Pro Tools; I?d rather play a song all the way through than sit there and edit parts together.  We tracked this record as a live band, and on most of the tunes, we didn?t use a click track.  Sure, some of the tracks speed up at the end, but they do so for a reason: because the music and the feeling are getting more intense.  I think the listener wants to hear that, too.

You?re studying finance.  Do you see a correlation between math and music?
Yes.  Math to me is easy.  I didn?t graduate from high school, so in college I?ve been taking algebra and business calculus - lots of math.  It just makes sense.  It?s a puzzle, like doing a crossword puzzle.  There is totally a correlation with music, absolutely.

What is the connection exactly?
None of us reads music - we never have - so we have to remember sequences and stuff, how many verses, where are the choruses, is your verse going to lead to a pre-chorus?  How many times?  Not that we have an equation for a hit song; we don?t.  We?ve done songs that mathematically don?t make any sense, but they still make sense.  I don?t know how many formulas I have in my head and how many songs I remember how to play - too many - but with music, you?ve got to put feeling into the math.

What are your expectations regarding Velvet Revolver?
We know how high the bar is raised, so we wouldn?t have done this unless we were confident.  Initially we were hesitant to say anything officially; we said, ?Oh, we?re just jamming together.?  But once Scott came in and sang the first song with us, it was like, ?Okay, now we can go ahead and do this.?

Are you looking forward to getting on the road?
Playing live is what this band is made for.  This is going to be Old School in the way that we are real players.  It?s not politically correct; it?s going to be questionable what will happen every night.  Scott is a rational and sane guy, mild-mannered in everyday life - but when the guy gets onstage, he is fucking great.  Stone Temple Pilots are a great live band, but the other guys don?t move; Scott was the mover.  In Velvet Revolver, everybody moves and there is a lot of energy.  Scott, Dave, and I all do martial arts together, so there is a whole other intensity level that we know we each have.  Martial arts are pretty violent and the workout is intense.  That brings a lot to this band.

How so?
If you?ve ever played a sport like football, sometimes there?s that one teammate you can count on to knock the shit out of somebody else.  All three of us are that guy - so we can all count on that guy being onstage.  And for me, going onstage is almost like going to war.  It?s combat.

It sounds like the tour will be entirely different from the GNR days.
Absolutely.  I don?t remember the Guns tours.  There are literally stamps in my passport where I?m like Whoa - I went there?  I?ve toured a lot since the Guns N? Roses days, since I?ve been sober, with the Neurotic Outsiders and Loaded.  Touring when you know what?s going on is a lot more fun.  It?s a lot easier than trying to cop drugs in every city you are going to.

What do you think about the current state of music?
I wish I could say there are a lot of new bands that I absolutely love, but the groups I love are guys that are my age - bands like the Foo Fighters and Audioslave.  I really like the new Jane?s Addiction record.  Some great bands have come out in the last ten years, but they are underground.  I love the Refused, and Queens Of The Stone Age are a perfect example of a great, dangerous rock band, especially if you see them in a small place.  They are great players, but you never know if one of those guys will jump off the stage and kick your ass - I love that!  I miss that about a band.  When I see the Queens, I am so glad I play rock & roll. BP

Gypsy note: There?s some quotes from Duff (and a pic) in the write-up about his gear that I posted in the ?Nice Boys? section.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?board=5;action=display;threadid=10565

[GypsySoul]

PHOTOGRAPHS BY ANNAMARIA DISANTO

[Booker Floyd]

Thats a really great interview...Those recording and songwriting details are fascinating to me.

[jarmo]

Thanks for typing that out Gypsy.

Did Slash change his mind about Pro-Tools or did he just let the others use it anyway?


I read something about [your use of] ProTools [audio editing software] on one song, and said you couldn't even look at the computer.

Oh, yeah. I had this thing on a song called "Speed Parade" where I wanted a car sound on it. So where do you go and find a car sound? For me, it's go to the video store, pick out a Clint Eastwood movie and just loop or dub it in there somehow.

And they said, "No, they have these books of nothing but sound effects." ... So it took a while to find it, and the way they applied it was using ProTools. Once I saw that I would just sit behind the computer, I couldn't stand to look at it. It was just so f---ing tedious. That was my first--and pretty much last--introduction to ProTools. [laughs]


http://www.livedaily.com/news/2282.html

---

Another thing, Duff says Matt wants to keep the sound modern.

Didn't Slash quit GN'R because he didn't want them to change?


There was most definitely a clash of attitudes. ?Axl had a vision that GN'R should change and Slash had an attitude that Guns N' Roses was Guns N' Fucking Roses and that?s who they were,? Zutaut realises, ?I don't think they could get over their breakdown in communication.?
Total Guitar, June 2003


Or maybe he just accepted Pro-Tools and the idea of change since Snakepit and since he left GN'R...

It just seems like Slash has changed his opinion on some things or just let the others do what they want.


Oh, and this isn't about Axl. So no need to tell me it's all Axl's fault and how he's an asshole for making Slash leave GN'R.



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Did Slash change his mind about Pro-Tools or did he just let the others use it anyway?

Did Duff say that Slash was using it?  Slash said he doesnt like it, but hes not the one using it and hes obviously not completely opposed to it if it was used on a Snakepit record.

Slash also didnt care for the production and effects on the Use Your Illusions, did that change anything?

Another thing, Duff says Matt wants to keep the sound modern.

Didn't Slash quit GN'R because he didn't want them to change?

First of all, this isnt Guns N' Roses...

Second, do you think Matt or Duffs definition of is making industrial music?

Who knows what Matts idea of "modern" is and who knows how its being manifested in this band?  Seems like youre just grasping at straws for contradictions that really arent there.

Or maybe he just accepted Pro-Tools and the idea of change since Snakepit and since he left GN'R...

Pro-Tools was used on that Snakepit record, no?  

It just seems like Slash has changed his opinion on some things or just let the others do what they want.

Its convenient for your defending of Axl (or blaming of Slash) to say this, but the situations dont compare.  Matt isnt Axl, hes not bullying anyone for name rights, or making industrial music, or doing any of the other things Axl did to drive the former members away. The circumstances arent the same, and neither are the compromises (if any) being made.  As for the Pro-Tools thing, the quote given states that Slash personally doesnt like it; I didnt  see any zero tolerance Pro-Tools policy...

Oh, and this isn't about Axl. So no need to tell me it's all Axl's fault and how he's an asshole for making Slash leave GN'R.

Well, it wasnt about Axl...

[jarmo]

How surprising Booker. You even managed to split the post into small sections and skip the Tom Zutaut part, excellent.    

Anyway, somebody who basically didn't want GN'R to change is now in a band that is looking for a modern sound. Personally I think it's great since I liked The Cult's latest album and I also liked the things Duff did in Loaded.

I think change is good, I think it might just bring the best out of Slash.

You just assume I'm trying to make Axl look better. I even said it's not about Axl.  

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

For a guy who's supposed to dislike Pro-Tools, it's sure being used on his albums.  


Since when is modern sounding the same as industrial sounding?  




/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

Maybe it's easier to 'go with the flow' when all the band member are easy-going people  

Again, this is not about Axl, but if you or Slash or anyone for that matter are introduced to a new thing in the right way, it can completely change your opinion about that new thing.

Also, it seems like this VR dont spend forever and a day in the studio playing with Pro Tools.  They just use it when they feel like it.

Duff said they recorded the album to tape?  What does that mean?  Does it mean they used one of those old-fashioned cassette tape recorders??

[jarmo]

Duff said they recorded the album to tape?  What does that mean?  Does it mean they used one of those old-fashioned cassette tape recorders??

I think so.

Maybe they used PT for effects....  



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

How surprising Booker. You even managed to split the post into small sections and skip the Tom Zutaut part, excellent.    

 

The hell did the Tom Zutnat quote have to do with anything?  What does it prove?  

Anyway, somebody who basically didn't want GN'R to change is now in a band that is looking for a modern sound.

Velvet Revolver is not GNR.  GNR was an entity that was already established and his vision for that might not be exactly the same as another different entity.

Then theres the change part.  GNR did change, from AFD to GNR Lies to Illusions, and Slash was there and a part of it.  Eventually, he didnt agree with Axls ideas for change...Do you believe that Axls ideas (industrial-stylings, snythesizers, etc.) will exist in this band?  So you cant compare Axls desire to change Guns N' Roses to Matt Sorums vague idea of "modern" with Velvet Revolver.  Go ahead and define modern for me, so I can see where youre getting this comparison of Matt to Axl.  I know Axls of modern was electronic/industrial...the only implication Duff made to Matts idea of modern is listening to records and coming up with great drum beats

You just assume I'm trying to make Axl look better. I even said it's not about Axl.  

Okay

All I said that maybe Slash decided to "go with the flow" and allow VR to do stuff he wouldn't do himself if it was his solo band. Is that possible? Is it possible he thought "hey, this could be interesting, let's try it!"?

Its a given that since this isnt his solo band theres likely to be some compromise, but nothing comparable to the situation with Guns, which is what youre making it seem like.

For a guy who's supposed to dislike Pro-Tools, it's sure being used on his albums.  

That quote only shows that he himself doesnt like using it.  He says its tedious to sit behind a computer.  Does that autmoatically mean he wont have anything to do with it, especially if its someone else using it?  Obviously not.  Now if Duff said "Slash is on Pro-Tools all the time, he loves it" youd have a point...itd be a contradiction.  Matt and Scott are fans of it apparently, he didnt say anything about Slash.  It sounds as if Duff and Slash are on the same page with Pro-Tools, they dont care to use it themselves but clearly arent dead-set against it.

Since when is modern sounding the same as industrial sounding?  

Thats what I was asking you...

We know that Axl was going into an industrial direction, and we know Slash was against it.  So you cant compare Slashs reluctance to make that kind of music to Velvet Revolver sounding "modern," because theres been NO definition (or even a hint) of what modern even means here...But is it going to be something like "Oh My God"?  I highly doubt it.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

As far definition of 'modern' music:

Duff mentioned that he likes Audioslave - now this is a band with a modern sound but it's not industrial.   So I think we have a pretty good idea of what VR means when they say 'modern'.

[jarmo]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks, besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.


I'm not sure if Duff and Slash are on the same page regarding recording technology. Compare Dark Days to Ain't Life Grand. Loaded's album sounds more modern to me.

I think Matt's idea of modern sounding is basically using computers in the music making. By that, I don't mean adding some car sounds to a song.

Digital editing and stuff like that.

We'll have to wait and see if they used any Pro-Tools on Slash's stuff or only on the rest of the band's stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if Dave likes to play around with things like that.



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks, besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.
/jarmo

See - I think that was the main problem.  One minute he wants to sound like Pearl Jam/Nirvana, the next minute NIN, and after that put in a huge piano ballad. I'm not dissing Axl, but I can imagine the frustration the other guys must have felt.

back on topic:  
I think it's cool that Duff went back to school.  He's mentioned that several times in other articles.  He seems to have grown up a lot since his reckless life days, so hopefully we see some of that in the new songs.

[Falcon]

Being the resident Cult fanatic, I think I know what Matt is implying by wanting to "keep it modern".

VR will have a more rhythm and groove sound, as Duff said, "keeping it in the pocket".  Gone will be the the extended guitar wanking, replaced with stealth solos that go as quickly as they come.  No excessive layering, but keeping the sound full with heavy rhythm guitars that can actually be heard and distinguished as their own entity underneath descending riffs and melodic vocals.  

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  After reading the above article, I couldn't be more excited.  

It sounds as though the guys have found their musical identity.

[Booker Floyd]

I don't hear industrial sounds when I listen to some of the new GN'R tracks

Some, but by Axls own admission he has dobe that type of music and itll supposedly show up on the CD follow-up (as if such a thing will ever occur).

When I listen to "Oh My God," "Silkworms," or even "My World," I understand what Slash is talking about.  Those songs do feature a heavy industrial/electronic edge.  Like them or not, thats clearly not Slashs style, or Guns N' Roses style.
 

besides according to Slash Axl wanted to be Pearl Jam at some point. Not exactly your most Pro-Tools friendly bands out there.

Slash didnt want to sound like Pearl Jam either, its not about Pro-Tools at that point.

I'm not sure if Duff and Slash are on the same page regarding recording technology. Compare Dark Days to Ain't Life Grand. Loaded's album sounds more modern to me.

 

I said "Pro-Tools".  

"I try not to get caught up in Pro Tools; I’d rather play a song all the way through than sit there and edit parts together. "

I think Matt's idea of modern sounding is basically using computers in the music making. By that, I don't mean adding some car sounds to a song.

Digital editing and stuff like that.

Digital editing would mean Pro-Tools, and it doesnt necessarily make anything sound modern, its just a modern recording technique.

And like Ive said a few times, something like that (if thats even what it is) still doesnt compare to the relatively radical changes Axl had in mind (songs like "My World," "Silkworms," etc.).  

We'll have to wait and see if they used any Pro-Tools on Slash's stuff or only on the rest of the band's stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if Dave likes to play around with things like that.

How would you even tell if its only editing?  

This is where the "modern" confusion comes in.  Youre guessing that Matts idea of modern is digital editing or somehting...I dont see how anyone can have any clue what his idea of modern is based on what we have.  Axls idea of modern ("taking the band into the 21st century") is electronica.  Two entirely different concepts as far as I can tell.

I guess I can only go on whats there so far: "Set Me Free," "Slither," and "You Got No Right".  Havent heard studio versions of the last two, but I dont see any electronic or especially "modern".  Nothing out of the ordinary on "Set Me Free".  Compare that to any of the new GNR songs save for maybe "The Blues" (which is shaping up to feature synths ) and "Chinese Democracy".  Thats at least 3 tracks with industrial influence ("OMG," "SW")  or synths and samples ("Madagascar").  "Rhiad" has some of that too, right?  Either way, thats 3 or 4 out of the 6 songs weve heard so far.  Who knows what the other stuff even sounds like?  But its safe to say its a different direction and idea of modern than Velvet Revolvers.

[jarmo]

Yeah, two different ideas.


Basically Slash didn't want his previous bands to try new things. GN'R should be GN'R according to him, Snakepit wasn't exactly groundbreaking, Blues Ball played covers. His fourth band since joining GN'R are hoping to be something else than the traditional bluesy hard rock bands that he's been in so far.

You don't think that's interesting?

The guy has played with everybody from Iggy Pop to Blackstreet, but his own bands were supposed to keep doing whatever they were doing without any major evolution.

When VR started I was kinda worried that it might be Snakepit3 (luckily I was proven wrong).

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  

Funny because I thought Set Me Free didn't sound "modern" enough. I thought it was a step back for Matt compared to Beyond Good And Evil.


The modern sound thing might also explain why they chose the producer they did.


/jarmo

[madagas]

You know what is funny? When people like Booker say Slash did not like what Axl was doing. Actually, and this was confirmed by Slash and Axl, it was Axl who flatly rejected the majority of proposals that Slash wanted to put on the next Guns record. Basically, told him they were shit and it was proven when he took that music and put out the Snakeshit record. I believe alot of Slash fans still hold a grudge against Axl for what is essentially a pretty big "diss". Now, before you go off on this, hear me out. Personally, I believe the band should have broken up. They were done personally and professionally. No blame to either side. Both play equal parts in the divorce. Slash is better off without Axl at this point and vice versa. I hope both bands do well and prosper.  

[Falcon]

From the get-go, I thought "Set Me Free" sounded more Cultish
than anything GNR or STP.  

Funny because I thought Set Me Free didn't sound "modern" enough. I thought it was a step back for Matt compared to Beyond Good And Evil.


The modern sound thing might also explain why they chose the producer they did.


/jarmo

I agree, it was a step back for Matt in comparison to "Beyond Good and Evil".  Nonetheless, a positive step forward into a modern rhythm and groove direction Slash and Duff had never ventured into, showing growth while utilizing their strengths as musicians.  

I think their direction into modern rock was evident from the start, choosing Weiland over the likes of Bach was clearly an effort to break into a genre Slash and Duff had never cracked.  The selection of Josh Abraham adds even more credibility to the band.

Alot of GNR fans consider Axl's forays into electronica and industrial music "growth".  Others consider it a grasp at staying current.  

It looks as though VR has found a path that shows growth
as musicians without chasing the coat tails of whatever is trendy
at the particular time.

True evolution with credibility.

[madagas]

Falcon, come on! Maybe Axl is just doing what he likes for christ sakes!! He has released one studio song in twelve years. You have no idea what he is doing, how the album will sound and what trend if any, it will follow. It is natural for Slash but not Axl??? Horseshit. Again, no sides chosen here but don't pigeonhole Axl because of a few songs played live.

[madagas]

and another thing..What the fuck is "modern" about STP/Weiland and the Cult. Plug in guitars, play chunky traditional rock riffs and sing radio friendly melodies?? All this "modern" shit is something created by radio programmers and alleged music critics. It's horseshit. It is rock and roll. Simple as that. Axl isn't doing anything Pink Floyd didn't do in the 70's (all the synthesizer stuff) either. This stuff is getting very irritating....I imagine it will be worse when the records come out but at least we will have a finished product to debate.

[Booker Floyd]

You know what is funny? When people like Booker say Slash did not like what Axl was doing.

He didnt...

Actually, and this was confirmed by Slash and Axl, it was Axl who flatly rejected the majority of proposals that Slash wanted to put on the next Guns record.

Whats your point?  That doesnt change that Slash ultimately left because he didnt agree with Axls direction...

Basically, told him they were shit

And then asked for them back...

and it was proven when he took that music and put out the Snakeshit record.

Your opinion...Its not a GNR record (it couldnt possibly be) but its far from being bad.  Most of it is pretty good...

And lets not forget that Axl himseld has said that Slashs work during that time was the best hed heard in years...

I believe alot of Slash fans still hold a grudge against Axl for what is essentially a pretty big "diss".

Maybe so, but not me.  Dont me wrong, I hold a grudge about a lot of what Axl did/does (critical is a better description), but thats not really one of them.

Now, before you go off on this, hear me out.

Personally, I believe the band should have broken up. They were done personally and professionally. No blame to either side. Both play equal parts in the divorce. Slash is better off without Axl at this point and vice versa. I hope both bands do well and prosper.  

I basically agree.  I wish they could have worked it out, but they couldnt so...

[Falcon]

Falcon, come on! Maybe Axl is just doing what he likes for christ sakes!! He has released one studio song in twelve years. You have no idea what he is doing, how the album will sound and what trend if any, it will follow. It is natural for Slash but not Axl??? Horseshit. Again, no sides chosen here but don't pigeonhole Axl because of a few songs played live.

Chill out dude.

No sides were chosen here either.  Axl was mentioned briefly in one sentence, showing the perceived two sides of the coin concerning his "growth" as a musician.  

As for Slash and company, their choices were calculated as well, no doubt about it.  This said, with what we've heard so far, the perception of their choices will not be looked on as chasing any trend.  

From a marketing perspective it's "not just rockn roll, simple as that" anymore.  Groups are pidgeonholed whether we like it or not.  Perception is reality and it looks as though VR have made the right choices to overcome the prior perceptions of two of it's members and their previous band while the jury is still out on their former bandmate and his musical vision.

As for the "What the fuck is "modern" about STP/Weiland and the Cult" comment, it's again, perception.  STP came at a time when alternative rock exploded into the mainstream.  No more, no less.  The Cult have been very lucky, never being pidgeonholed into one genre.  They evolved from the post punk scene as a leader in the gothic rock movement, moving effortlessly into the British alternative scene before coming to America and morphing into a full on hard rock outfit.  Credibile within multiple genres and regarded as seminal within their peer group, always a step ahead.
 

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Basically Slash didn't want his previous bands to try new things. GN'R should be GN'R according to him, Snakepit wasn't exactly groundbreaking, Blues Ball played covers. His fourth band since joining GN'R are hoping to be something else than the traditional bluesy hard rock bands that he's been in so far.

You don't think that's interesting?

You're basically asking why Slash would rather evolve with VR than with GNR?
I think Slash answered this: as he repeated in numerous interviews concerning VR: "There are no dictators here".    

GNR evolved greatly while Slash was part of it.  

He has said it is a pleasure to work with Weiland.  I'm sure when you're happy in a band, you're more likely to be open to exploring different directions.

Plus, he, Duff and Matt have cleaned up considerably in the past few years. I'm sure that is another reason they are feeling refreshed, and want to show that in their music.

[madagas]

That is my problem-perception is not my reality. Reality is my reality. I am not here to debate the Cult's relevance or irrelevance in rock and roll but I think you are stretching their abilities a bit by saying they have always been a "step ahead". A friend of mine is a big Cult fanatic as well and I have heard all their music. Nothing that was on the cutting edge of anything. Just good solid rock and roll. Do you really think Axl or Slash really cares about what their music is labeled as or what crap radio station plays their songs? No. They care about album sales and their track record in that department was pretty good-during the alternative years or the hair metal years.

[Falcon]

Do you really think Axl or Slash really cares about what their music is labeled as or what crap radio station plays their songs? No. They care about album sales and their track record in that department was pretty good-during the alternative years or the hair metal years.

I absolutely believe Axl cares how his music is labeled, how he is perceived by the music press and his peer group and what radio station plays his songs.  His rants against other bands, genres and journalists that haven't accepted him prove that emphatically.

Slash has obviously gone a different route in his path to a a new fanbase.  Do you actually believe VR could have reached that audience, MTV, KROQ et al with Bach?  Hardly.

As for album sales, they sold a ton from 87-93, together.  Last time I checked, that was 11 years ago and in no way, shape or form does that translate to any success in 2004, apart.  

So far, I'd think you'd have to agree (without taking sides) that 1 of the two
has executed a plan both musically and perception wise to allow a shot at success somewhere outside of a classic rock station or a "Flashback Friday" segment.

[madagas]

Well, it is the name only that may drag the new Gnr into a classic rock format because as far as I can tell, there is NOTHING on the radio that sounds like this band.  I don't see any particular trend in Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, or Madagascar. They are very unique sounding songs as there is no one element that clearly dominates (industrial, classic, old school Gnr, alternative, etc) In my opinion, you are in a much better position for success if you are unique instead of sounding like a mix of Gnr and STP. We pretty much know exactly what the Velvet Revolver album will sound like. We have no idea what the Gnr record will sound like.  

[Top-Hatted One]

I have know idea what the VR album is going to sound like. I just know it's going to be great no matter what! I can't say the same for new-gnr yet since only 2 out of the 6 news songs are worthy of the gnr name.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Well, it is the name only that may drag the new Gnr into a classic rock format because as far as I can tell, there is NOTHING on the radio that sounds like this band.  I don't see any particular trend in Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, or Madagascar. They are very unique sounding songs as there is no one element that clearly dominates (industrial, classic, old school Gnr, alternative, etc) In my opinion, you are in a much better position for success if you are unique instead of sounding like a mix of Gnr and STP. We pretty much know exactly what the Velvet Revolver album will sound like. We have no idea what the Gnr record will sound like.  

I agree with you that newGNR has a great & unique sound. But (IMO) VR is in a better position for success.  Slash, Duff, & Matt go out and jam with other musicians and there is also Weiland's STP fan base.  

Matt's Camp Freddy is bringing the band a lot of good press. I cant say the same about Tommy Stinson's solo work...

The grunge revolution happened whether you like it or not.  VR does (most) things the right way b/c they act like a down-to-earth band that plays in clubs and does regular, friendly interviews such as this one.  They dont have the ranting/raging/recluse/rockstar image associated with them.

[Falcon]

Well, it is the name only that may drag the new Gnr into a classic rock format because as far as I can tell, there is NOTHING on the radio that sounds like this band.  I don't see any particular trend in Rhiad, Chinese Democracy, or Madagascar. They are very unique sounding songs as there is no one element that clearly dominates (industrial, classic, old school Gnr, alternative, etc) In my opinion, you are in a much better position for success if you are unique instead of sounding like a mix of Gnr and STP. We pretty much know exactly what the Velvet Revolver album will sound like. We have no idea what the Gnr record will sound like.  

Rhiad, Maddy and CD might show diversity to some, to others it shows a lack of musical direction.  No identity.  As for them not following trends, I'll debunk that theory rather quickly.  Maddy is a typical Axl epic power ballad, could've easily been on UYI.  CD (although a great song) is grunge with synth.  As for Rhiad, that song is virtually unlistenable.

Again, this is not taking sides.  I can't wait to hear CD when/if it ever comes out.  I hope it's a strong, focused collection of songs that shows where Axl is musically today, not a foregone mismash of trends long gone by.

 

[madagas]

I am concerned about focus on the record as well. I imagine that is what he has struggled with over the years, getting a cohesive sound out of the hours and hours of tapes with varying musicians and styles. I agree the six songs we have heard would not go together on an album. But, maybe that was his point playing wildly different songs live-to get a feeling for what the fans want.Who the fuck knows what that maniac is thinking?? ps I love Rhiad..sounds like Immigrant Song meets Trampled Under Foot meets the year 2004. To each his own.

[Rebecca Duff Rose]

                                 

OMG!!!!!!!!!
ITS DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF!!!!!!

THANK YOU SOOOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH AUNT GYPSY!!!! {hee hee I found the thread! lol!}  

                             

WHAT A MAN!!!!!
OOOOOOOO!! Hey you guys its DUFF!

Hee hee! How gorgeous does he look on those incredibly sexay photos!
Phwoar!

Oh yeah great interview too!  

DUFF IS GORGEOUS! ROCK ON!
Aunt Gypsy you rock!              

I'm Gunner be smilin' for days on end now! {well thats what i do anyway but still......}

[darkmonth]

Thanks for typing that out Gypsy.

Did Slash change his mind about Pro-Tools or did he just let the others use it anyway?


I read something about [your use of] ProTools [audio editing software] on one song, and said you couldn't even look at the computer.

Oh, yeah. I had this thing on a song called "Speed Parade" where I wanted a car sound on it. So where do you go and find a car sound? For me, it's go to the video store, pick out a Clint Eastwood movie and just loop or dub it in there somehow.

And they said, "No, they have these books of nothing but sound effects." ... So it took a while to find it, and the way they applied it was using ProTools. Once I saw that I would just sit behind the computer, I couldn't stand to look at it. It was just so f---ing tedious. That was my first--and pretty much last--introduction to ProTools. [laughs]


http://www.livedaily.com/news/2282.html

---

Another thing, Duff says Matt wants to keep the sound modern.

Didn't Slash quit GN'R because he didn't want them to change?


There was most definitely a clash of attitudes. ?Axl had a vision that GN'R should change and Slash had an attitude that Guns N' Roses was Guns N' Fucking Roses and that?s who they were,? Zutaut realises, ?I don't think they could get over their breakdown in communication.?
Total Guitar, June 2003


Or maybe he just accepted Pro-Tools and the idea of change since Snakepit and since he left GN'R...

It just seems like Slash has changed his opinion on some things or just let the others do what they want.


Oh, and this isn't about Axl. So no need to tell me it's all Axl's fault and how he's an asshole for making Slash leave GN'R.



/jarmo

Jarmo... I expected more of you than this.  You surely aren't going to be this childish?  And when Booker quoted and answered back?  Well... I agree.  Slash didn't say he dismisses protools.  He said he doesn't like using it.   So fine... he doesn't have to.  Plus, read what Duff said... he said they recorded to tape and used ProTools aswell, and that most of it was all recorded in one go.  Also, Axl's direction change is far from a simple modernisation of the sound... I think this is a crazy comparison.

[jarmo]

Oh yeah, it's childish to even dare to ask a question like that....  

I should've known that's the reply I'd get from the two of you.


Slash said he didn't like Pro Tools, yet it's being used on his albums. That' just something we have to accept since you guys don't think it's even an interesting thing to discuss.  

You also ignored the fact I thought it was a positive thing if he decided to try something new instead of doing Snakepit v.3......


/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Oh yeah, it's childish to even dare to ask a question like that....

I didnt say it was childish, so dont include me in that.  

 

Slash said he didn't like Pro Tools, yet it's being used on his albums. That' just something we have to accept since you guys don't think it's even an interesting thing to discuss.  

Slash said he doesnt like using Pro Tools himself...And all indicators suggest that hes not using himself on the new record...So I fail to see why its an interesting thing to discuss.  Find a quote where he says "I refuse to have Pro Tools used on anything I do" and youve got yourself a point.  Right now youve just got a quote detailing Slashs peronal distaste for using Pro Tools, and a more recent quote by Duff that basically backs that up.  What inconsistency!

All I see is you grasping at straws to point out Slashs contradictions/inconsistencies , as you often do - thats fine, but its easy to see that theres nothing in the quotes you posted.

                                                                                                                             

[darkmonth]

Oh yeah, it's childish to even dare to ask a question like that....  

I should've known that's the reply I'd get from the two of you.


Slash said he didn't like Pro Tools, yet it's being used on his albums. That' just something we have to accept since you guys don't think it's even an interesting thing to discuss.  

You also ignored the fact I thought it was a positive thing if he decided to try something new instead of doing Snakepit v.3......


/jarmo

Erm, well, sorry.  But I think considering you will jump on people for making points about new gnr, you are acting a tad hypocritical... especially considering how insignificant and miniscule the points you are trying to make are.  Sorry if I offended you.  And if you look through my history of posts you will notice that I am quite even when it comes to my love of GnR and VR.  It just so happens that most of the important posts I have made are defending Slash and co, because some of the newbie GnR fans get a bit over the top sometimes.  You make out that I am a blind one road follower.  I am not.

[jarmo]

Slash said he doesnt like using Pro Tools himself...And all indicators suggest that hes not using himself on the new record...So I fail to see why its an interesting thing to discuss.                                      

I'll say it once more:

Slash isn't exactly known as a guy who uses technology.  He says he doesn't like Pro Tools, we agree on that.

I'm saying maybe he should try it? Maybe VR's idea of sounding contemporary will bring out something interesting out of Slash? Nah, I'm just saying that because I hate Slash, right? You guys know me so well so you can make that assumption....  

You two make it seem like I'm bashing Slash when I'm not.

When he says he doesn't like something and yet it's being used on his albums, I do think he's compromising somewhat. For example, if you don't like a horn section or a guest rapper, are you still gonna use one on your album? I guess I have to point out one more time that this isn't a bad thing!

Instead of doing things the same old way, sometimes you need to look for a new way to keep things interesting.

Maybe the guy is just happy to play his guitar and let the others bring in samplers and stuff just as long as nobody touches his guitar parts....


Maybe we should just go back to discussing how great Weiland is instead of trying to have a normal discussion about a guitar player who says he doesn't like the use of a certain software, but it's still being used on albums that has his name on them?  


BTW "OzzyCat", I jump on people who "make points about new gnr" just because many of them can't make a point without adding something like "you're a moron for liking the new band" into their posts. I couldn't care less if you think Adler's Appetite is the real GN'R.....


/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Slash isn't exactly known as a guy who uses technology.  He says he doesn't like Pro Tools, we agree on that.

In the quote youve given, he says that he doesnt like using Pro Tools.  I dont know what his personal beliefs on the idea of incorporating Pro Tools somehow through someon else are, but facts would dicate that hes open to it.

I'm saying maybe he should try it?

It sounds like he did and wasnt interested.

Maybe VR's idea of sounding contemporary will bring out something interesting out of Slash?

Maybe but I have no clue what that idea of contemporary is.

Nah, I'm just saying that because I hate Slash, right? You guys know me so well so you can make that assumption....  

I never said that.  However you do have a habit of pointing out supposed contradictions when it comes to this band, especially Slash.  And like I said - thats fine, but youre off the mark here.

You two make it seem like I'm bashing Slash when I'm not.

But youre pointing out contradictions that dont exist.  Youre pointing to the use of Pro Tools on the VR album as if its inconsistent with that Slash quote you posted, when its clearly not.  Especially when Duff indirectly points out that Slash doesnt really have a part in it.

When he says he doesn't like something and yet it's being used on his albums, I do think he's compromising somewhat.

Again...

He said that he doesnt like using it...The comments about the tediousness of sitting on a computer make that clear.  Where in that quote do you see him stating a fundamental objection to the use of Pro Tools at all?  You dont.  So you dont have a point.  Its nearly the same sentiment as Axls "inadequacy with modern machines" comment, only he chooses to work directly with them and Slash doesnt.  Slash doesnt want anything to do with it, that has no bearing on his opinion of others using it.  

But assuming you did have a valid point (you dont), and it was a compromise, then I would just simply remind you that this is a band...of course theres likely to be compromise.  If Slash had an overall aversion to Pro Tools like you seem to think (even though theres nothing to support that, and plenty to debunk it), then using Pro Tools on Contraband would be a compromise.  But some bands are dictatorships and some compromise.  I doubt this is a dictatorship.
 

For example, if you don't like a horn section or a guest rapper, are you still gonna use one on your album?

Do I need to point out the silliness of this comment?  I I guess so...

A horn section/guest rapper/any addition or modification to the actual music is an entirely different concept than methods of recording or editing.  Come on now...

I have to point out one more time that this isn't a bad thing!

No, more like an irrelevant one.

Instead of doing things the same old way, sometimes you need to look for a new way to keep things interesting.

Okay

Maybe the guy is just happy to play his guitar and let the others bring in samplers and stuff just as long as nobody touches his guitar parts....

Maybe...

Maybe we should just go back to discussing how great Weiland is instead of trying to have a normal discussion about a guitar player who says he doesn't like the use of a certain software, but it's still being used on albums that has his name on them?  

There you go...

Are you really incapable of discerning "the use of" with "the personal use of" because theyre obviously two different concepts that youve turned into one and the same.  

I dont get the Weiland thing...Ohhh, I like Weiland...okay I get it now.  Hilarious, and clever!

[Falcon]

Using contemporary methods of recording and sounding contemporary have absolutely nothing to do with each other.

From what we've heard so far, Slash has gotten away from the bluesy guitar and has taken his riffing to another level.  His solos are shorter while remaining emotive, dropping subtle bombs that elevate the songs, not dominate them.  He seems to have finally realized that he doesn't need to be loud to be heard.

Who the hell cares if he likes using Pro Tools or not?

[metallex78]

I can understand what Jarmo is saying, but I'd also like to add that by using Pro Tools I don't think it means that Contraband will come out sounding like electronica, it's just a different means of recording.
As opposed to analog recording, it is digital and parts can be recorded and edited quicker.

I don't know if Pro Tools ties in with VR wating to sound contemporary either, I think it's their actual musical style that Matt wants to keep contemporary, not their means to record the album.
A good example - Metallica's St. Anger was recorded and edited together with Pro Tools and it's one of the most raw/garagy sounding albums I've ever heard.

[jarmo]

Are you really incapable of discerning "the use of" with "the personal use of" because theyre obviously two different concepts that youve turned into one and the same.

Mmm-kay, I think it's funny when somebody says he doesn't like something and it's still being used on the products he's putting out... HE doesn't use it, but HIS name is on the album anyway..... Sorry for offending you with that.


Falcon and metallex78 seems to be understanding what I'm trying to say. The fact that VR is interested in using Pro Tools and stuff might make Slash do something new. That to me is more interesting than hearing another Snakepit album.  



/jarmo

[Falcon]

Falcon and metallex78 seems to be understanding what I'm trying to say. The fact that VR is interested in using Pro Tools and stuff might make Slash do something new. That to me is more interesting than hearing another Snakepit album.  



/jarmo

Agreed.  

Slash seems to have grown as a musician, he's no longer stuck in the Joe Perry mode anymore while remaining true to a "rock" orientated vision.  

I've always been drawn to guitarists like Dave Navarro and Billy Duffy, both are never mentioned on "Best Guitar Player" lists but have styles that lend themselves to sounding current while remaining uniquely their own.  Though Slash is undoubtedly higher on the guitar food chain than both, he's never ventured outside of the blues based style he's accustomed to.  Whether it
be the use of different recording/editing techniques, Matt relentlessly reminding to "keep it modern" or just playing with the likes of the 2 mentioned above in Camp Freddy, something seems to have clicked.  Slash seems to have tried something different outside his comfort zone and from what we've heard, I think it works.

Much more interesting than a Snakepit record for sure...

[Booker Floyd]

Mmm-kay, I think it's funny when somebody says he doesn't like something and it's still being used on the products he's putting out... HE doesn't use it, but HIS name is on the album anyway..... Sorry for offending you with that.

I guess you are incapable of making that distinction...

So if Slash said something like "I cant stand handling a mixing board, theres too many knobs...," you would find it funny that HE doesnt like sitting at a mixing board, yet a record with HIS name on it has been mixed?  I cant see the difference.  And its kind of stupid to say a record with HIS name features Pro Tools when it seems Snakepits only use of it was a single sound effect...

You still havent pointed out where he says he doesnt like Pro-Tools, as opposed to personally sitting behind a computer and using Pro Tools....but I didnt expect you to.  You really have no point.

Falcon and metallex78 seems to be understanding what I'm trying to say. The fact that VR is interested in using Pro Tools and stuff might make Slash do something new. That to me is more interesting than hearing another Snakepit album.  

Care to explain how you think Pro Tools might make Slash do something new?  Its a recording/editing program...its just a faster, easier way to essentially do the same things theyve always done with tape in the studio.  So please enlighten me as to how its use will inspire musical innovation...



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Mmm-kay, I think it's funny when somebody says he doesn't like something and it's still being used on the products he's putting out...

Jarmo, it depends on what this "something" is.  Are you referring to: 1) a sound/style of music, or 2) a of technology used to speed the process?

For 2, Slash can always get a sound engineer to do the dirty work without compromising his own creativity and style of making music.

In 1, we're talking creativity.  If he feels happy with what Matt considers as "contemporary"  then more power to him!   The band has to "mesh".

GNR evolved a lot while Slash was part of it.  This is just another path he's choosing to evolve on with the people that he likes working with.

[jarmo]

Booker, I don't think if you have noticed, but some artists are against the use of things like Pro Tools and they like to point it out. I like to think Slash is one of those old time type of recording artists.

They just want to record the old way. RATM even printed something like "these album was made with guitar, bass, drums" on their 1993 album, that was before Pro Tools became a standard.

Mixing an album and using the same kind of software that a majority of today's "hit" makers use, is a little different thing.


To me the Slash quote says, he saw how it was used and thought the old way of doing things was better. Do you really think Slash himself was playing with Pro Tools on a computer to make that sound effect? As far as I know, Slash isn't even into computers....


/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

To me the Slash quote says, he saw how it was used and thought the old way of doing things was better. Do you really think Slash himself was playing with Pro Tools on a computer to make that sound effect? As far as I know, Slash isn't even into computers....

Thats exactly the point - He isnt into computers, therefore he doesnt like using Pro Tools.  Thats exactly the sentiment I see expressed in that particular quote.  It doesnt mean that hes against a producer/engineer using it, and thats what you dont seem to get.  If he allowed its use on Aint Life Grand and Contraband, then common sense dictates that hes not fundamentally against it.  If you dont see this, then I give up.  I think Ive explained it clearly enough times, Im only repeating myself.

Jarmo, it depends on what this "something" is.  Are you referring to: 1) a sound/style of music, or 2) a of technology used to speed the process?

For 2, Slash can always get a sound engineer to do the dirty work without compromising his own creativity and style of making music.

In 1, we're talking creativity.  If he feels happy with what Matt considers as "contemporary"  then more power to him!  The band has to "mesh".

GNR evolved a lot while Slash was part of it.  This is just another path he's choosing to evolve on with the people that he likes working with.

 

Common sense prevails!  Hope is not lost...

[jarmo]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

I suspect Dave might be more interested in that thing.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).



/jarmo

[Doc Emmett Brown]

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

On the behalf of Slash and Slash fans everywhere on this planet,

I think that Slash is ok with the use of ProTools on his tracks as long as it is respects his taste and style of music.  This can be said of any musician.

If Kusher took his tracks and shredded them, and added crap to them without Slash's knowledge (a la Paul Huge) - you bet he'd be mad. Wouldnt you?

Snakepit was his solo work, VR is a band on all fronts.  What Slash does in one doesnt necessarily carry over to the other.

Btw, this thread is about Duff in BassPlayer right?     Dont you think it's interesting that Duff likes the Foo Fighters?  I do...

[Booker Floyd]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

Okay, so far we agree...

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

Thats you injecting your own meaning into it.  Take his words for face value and hes saying that the process of editing music behind a computer screen is too tedious...a criticism that would only apply to his personal use of the program, unless hes speaking on behalf of his producers/bandmates?

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

No, but thats an entirely different subject matter?  Who said thats what they were using the program for?  

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

Well thats what hes quote clearly touches on: an opinion based on his encounter with Pro Tools.  Not Matts, or Daves, or a producers...He specifically says they (his producers or whatever) applied it, so hes clearly not completely against it, or the quote would be more along the lines of "Theres no Pro Tools on this record".  Then youd have yourself a point.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

Yes and Yes

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

Do you see that youre completely shifting the subject?

Where did this "changing his tracks" topic come from?

I dont know what theyre using the Pro Tools for, which is why its pointless to even comment on it.  It could be the same deal with the Snakepit album where theyre adding the odd sound effect, or it could be Matt and Scott fucking around with their parts and adding effects and what not.  Maybe its use has no direct effect on the music at all.  Its the same as Sorums definition of "modern"...Who knows what hes talking about?  And who knows what Duff means when he refers to Matt and Scotts use of Pro Tools?  Im just saying I dont see any inconsistency in Slashs opinion/use of Pro Tools.

2000: Slash doesnt like to use Pro Tools himself, it is used on Life Is Grand.

2004: Slash doesnt like to use Pro Tools himself, it is used on Contraband.

No difference as far as Im concerned.

Is he compromising?  I dont know...As far as I know, his philosophy is "I dont give a fuck about Pro Tools as long as I dont have anything to do with it and the music that was written stays the same," in which case its not even an issue and hes not compromising.  He would only be compromising if he himself was involved with its use.

If hes dead set against any use of Pro Tools at all, which theres no evidence of, then yes, hes be compromising.  And if thats the case, chalk it up to being in a band that is more a democracy than a dictatorship.  It wouldnt be the first time hes compromised.

[Miz]

Umm, of course he's not gonna like to use it himself since it's a computer software.

If you read the Slash quote again, it seems like he just doesn't like the new style of doing things while his band mates do seem use some of the new technology available.

I don't think that Slash would love the idea for them to bring in a guy that took Slash's guitar tracks and started cutting and pasting them in Pro Tools. Do you think he'd like that?

Note that I didn't say Slash was supposed to work in Pro Tools himself.

I suspect Dave might be more interested in that thing.

I'm saying: Slash doesn't seem to be the most technology friendly guitarist on the planet.
You're saying: He doesn't like to use it but he thinks others can.

So do you think he'd let others use PT on his tracks? I'm not so sure about it. Unless he has changed his mind since the Snakepit days (as I asked earlier in this thread).

But from what Duff said (about it being recorded live) they're hardly using it at all.  I mean, they recorded it to tape, and recorded the songs live, so I don't really know where there's a lot of space for Pro Tools in that mix.  So it's not like they're doing what The Strokes did and recording the songs 30 times, then cutting them up and putting the together the best bits from each song.

[jarmo]

Do you see that youre completely shifting the subject?

Where did this "changing his tracks" topic come from?

Umm, it was a question  I asked since it would involve using Pro Tools on something Slash recorded himself.

I was asking for your opinion and thoughts on it, but you didn't care to answer. Oh well....


random did answer it and made a good point.  


I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters. He seems to have a broad taste in music.


/jarmo

[darkmonth]

Ok, I'm getting annoyed here.  Listen up.

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.  All it does is display a virtual tracklist and mixing desk on screen.  

Ok, so, my point is this... using Pro Tools makes not one difference to song writing, song structures, etc.  It doesn't make anything sound modern or new.  It's just efficiency and speed of work.  That's all.  I have recorded in multiple studios, using analogue tape with mixing decks, digital systems using Pro Tools and also Cubase etc.  None of them make any difference.  The songs are still all made in the rehearsal room, before Pro Tools is even mentioned.

So, Slash's playing wont be any different.  He will still be Slash.  The songs.  Simple, they will be hard rock songs.  Pro Tools?  Making a difference?  Puhleeze... go and get some practical experience with it.  I have done, and as I said.  No different to tape, only quicker and easier to mix.

So Slash didn't like sitting behind a PC, fine... he will sit on the couch behind the producer while he mixes the album.  The band will sit in the room saying "more bass...", "less treble on the hihat", "more reverb on the guitar solo".

It's how it is.  So, let's all stop arguing over a tiny quote that means fuck all.

[jarmo]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

[metallex78]

I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters. He seems to have a broad taste in music.
/jarmo

Yeah, it doesn't seem that unusual for Duff to like Foo Fighters, they are a rock band and all.
I love Foo Fighters, I think a VR/FF tour would be kickass!

[jarmo]

Yeah, it doesn't seem that unusual for Duff to like Foo Fighters, they are a rock band and all.
I love Foo Fighters, I think a VR/FF tour would be kickass!

VR opening for FF?

That might be interesting.

I wonder how the rest of the band feels about Foo Fighters.



/jarmo

[darkmonth]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

Ok, yes, it can be used for effects etc too, and of course you can splice stuff around and mix different tracks together.  But none of that is anything new.  All these things have been around on analogue for years.  Effects with effects racks and splicing etc with tape.  It's just slower.  But some old school guys just don't like computers.  That's no bad thing.  Computers aren't the be all and end all.  Slash wants to get on stage.  That's what he does.  That's why he doesn't like Pro Tools.  It's something he isn't in to, and hasn't grown up with.

Oh... one more thing.  Anyone who starts fucking around with to many effects in Pro Tools (such as guitar amp sims etc) is a fool.  Keep it simple.  To many people go off on one because they get with the new software.  But I have faith that Contraband will be a kick ass rock record and nothing more or less.  I have been waiting for that since 1993.

[Booker Floyd]

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.

I haven't used it. I thought it did more than that since it seems to be so popular.

You can't use it to add effects and stuff to the tracks? Sorry, but I thought they could use PT to process the guitar, drum, bass tracks etc. and change the sound in all kinds of ways so you don't have to play the instruments through certain pedals.

Miz just said how you can use it to put together songs from different takes. As far as I know, that's not the way Slash normally does things, right?

Even if that is possible without the software, it might be a more interesting option since PT seems to make it a lot quicker to do it.

Isn't mixing just something to do with adjusting sound levels? Would you say putting together a track from 30 different takes is "mixing"?

So if you're sure that you can't do anything like that with PT, I'm greatful if you correct me.  



/jarmo

It can do all of that stuff, but it certainly doesnt mean thats what its being used for. Besides, thats all stuff that could be done in production anyway, no matter what means of recording/mixing theyre using - Pro Tools or not.  

The whole Pro Tools thing is such a non-issue, and is being highly overrated in this discussion of "modern-sound".  It just so happens that its become the industry standard for recording/producing over the last decade and Velvet Revolver seems to use it, however sparsely.  It really makes no difference at the the end of the day since it comes down to the people writing the music and the people producing it, because they would probably doing the same shit without Pro Tools, it just wouldnt be as convenient.

[Miz]

Ok, I'm getting annoyed here.  Listen up.

Jarmo, have you even a clue what Pro Tools is?  It's just a mixing and mastering program for the PC/Mac.  All it does is display a virtual tracklist and mixing desk on screen.  

Ok, so, my point is this... using Pro Tools makes not one difference to song writing, song structures, etc.  It doesn't make anything sound modern or new.  It's just efficiency and speed of work.  That's all.  I have recorded in multiple studios, using analogue tape with mixing decks, digital systems using Pro Tools and also Cubase etc.  None of them make any difference.  The songs are still all made in the rehearsal room, before Pro Tools is even mentioned.

So, Slash's playing wont be any different.  He will still be Slash.  The songs.  Simple, they will be hard rock songs.  Pro Tools?  Making a difference?  Puhleeze... go and get some practical experience with it.  I have done, and as I said.  No different to tape, only quicker and easier to mix.

Well actually, Metallica used it to cut up their songs and rearrange them, and put vocals over different sections so it was all out of key, and now we have St Anger.  

But I didn't get the impression that that's what they're using it for, I mean, Duff said it was only on a few tracks, so it's probably just to add some effects and eq, and there's quite a possibility that it's mainly been used for Scott.  AS he wasn't there for a lot of the recording, and Duff said Scott was really into it, maybe it's just for vocals?

Who knows...


And I hope VR don't open for Foo Fighters.  I mean, ok the Foo's wouldn't be about to open for VR cos they're a huge international act and VR are basically completely new, but no band with Slash and Duff in should be supporting people with less talent than Axl's hot pants.  I don't hate the Foo Fighters, I think they're pretty cool, but not in the same league as VR.  No way.

But (in response to Jarmo) I do remember Slash saying in an interview he liked them, so a joint tour might not be completly out of the question.

[Miz]

Oh... one more thing.  Anyone who starts fucking around with to many effects in Pro Tools (such as guitar amp sims etc) is a fool.  Keep it simple.  To many people go off on one because they get with the new software.

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

And Billy Howerdel is such a fool...APC suck so bad...

Pro-Tools isn't all bad, but when it's grossly misused like Metallica did...then....well, people that stupid shouldn't be allowed near a computer.

[Booker Floyd]

Well actually, Metallica used it to cut up their songs and rearrange them, and put vocals over different sections so it was all out of key, and now we have St Anger.  

Yeah, like I said, it all depends on whos making the music.  Can VR cut up their tracks like that and add a million effects?  Yes.  Are they going to?  I highly doubt it.  

But I didn't get the impression that that's what they're using it for, I mean, Duff said it was only on a few tracks, so it's probably just to add some effects and eq, and there's quite a possibility that it's mainly been used for Scott.  AS he wasn't there for a lot of the recording, and Duff said Scott was really into it, maybe it's just for vocals?

Exactly...that would make more sense.

And I hope VR don't open for Foo Fighters.  I mean, ok the Foo's wouldn't be about to open for VR cos they're a huge international act and VR are basically completely new, but no band with Slash and Duff in should be supporting people with less talent than Axl's hot pants.

I agree until the talent part.  The Foo Fighters are one of the best, most established bands doing it right now.  Easily one of the last decades best.  However, while VR have a lot to prove, I think its best to maneuver a co-headlining/small headlining deal instead of an opening act, because despite having a clean slate, theyre obviously a big, star-powered band.

I don't hate the Foo Fighters, I think they're pretty cool, but not in the same league as VR.  No way.

Thats terribly premature.  As it stands, VR cant touch Foo Fighters for the simple fact that youre comparing a new, unproven group to a proven, highly successful band such as FF.

But (in response to Jarmo) I do remember Slash saying in an interview he liked them, so a joint tour might not be completly out of the question.

A joint tour, without the opening act stigma, would be great.

[Falcon]

The Foos are amazing, a great rock band with 8 years of platinum records, hit singles et al.

VR, though star studded, is a new band with nothing accomplished and alot to prove.  

Also, the Foos are headed bact to the studio after their members finish touring with side projects.

That should end the "Foo opening or co-headlining" talk.

VR is also a touring risk considering Weiland's personal issues.  I look for them to do headline a club tour, then move to theatres with a national opening act if the record takes off.  

[darkmonth]

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

hate to say it, but... my point exactly.  If BH wants to fuck around like a kid in a bedroom when he records his albums, and come out with guitar sounds like that... fine.  But if Slash and Co dropped their Marshall's in favour of AmpFarm, I would be fucking angry.  BH's on record guitar sounds, are mostly very cack.  And many of them are amp sim software.  I guess it's for ease of recording. He probably makes his music in front of the PC.  But it doesn't always sound so hot.

Pro-Tools isn't all bad, but when it's grossly misused like Metallica did...then....well, people that stupid shouldn't be allowed near a computer.

As I stated before, all of that can be done without digital tools such as Pro Tools (by the way, Pro Tools is being used here as the main tool, but Cubase, Logic, Pro Tools, Nuendo, Sonar... they are all the same.  Pro Tools just so happens to be an over priced hardware linked peice of audio production software that seems to have been lucky enough to capture the professional music industry's attention.).  So basically, Metallica's use of Pro Tools wasn't anything new.... plus, I like St. Anger.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters.

... These are my thoughts regarding Duff.  This is not a Duff-bashing post, just my honest opinons.

1. I think it's 'interesting' that Duff & Matt are making it very clear to mingle with the current crowd in music (Foos, Audioslave, Queens of the Stone Age, etc).  Instead of trying to be above them, they are trying to stay with them.  A deliberate intention to cut away from how GNR acted in the past.  
GNR vs. misc. hair bands, GNR vs. Nirvana, GNR vs. the entire universe.

2.  Duff stayed with Axl the longest.  This says to me that he, more than Izzy, more than Slash, was willing to modernize their sound.  
But it didnt work out b/c of Axl's behavior.  So, instead he and Matt are gonna do it their own way.  

3. Before VR, most people associated Duff (& Slash, Matt) with the bloated tentacled monster that GNR became.  They weren't given the respect they deserved.  
So Duff returns to his Seattle roots.  I dont know how he became friends with Scott Weiland, but Weiland = cool grunge/alternative scene.  
No way in hell are they gonna hook up with Bach.

Soooo:

VR is not going to be over-the-top.  They are gonna align themselves with the current scene. No negative 'rockstar' connotations here.

I doubt they'll do stadium tours.  They'll keep it low-key. Same for their music videos (if they make any).

[metallex78]

Oh... one more thing.  Anyone who starts fucking around with to many effects in Pro Tools (such as guitar amp sims etc) is a fool.  Keep it simple.  To many people go off on one because they get with the new software.

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

And Billy Howerdel is such a fool...APC suck so bad...

Pro-Tools isn't all bad, but when it's grossly misused like Metallica did...then....well, people that stupid shouldn't be allowed near a computer.

Um, how exactly did Metallica misuse Pro Tools?
St. Anger is such a raw/underproduced album you can barely notice where they've even used Pro Tools.

[metallex78]

I'm not surprised that Duff likes Foo Fighters.

... These are my thoughts regarding Duff.  This is not a Duff-bashing post, just my honest opinons.

1. I think it's 'interesting' that Duff & Matt are making it very clear to mingle with the current crowd in music (Foos, Audioslave, Queens of the Stone Age, etc).  Instead of trying to be above them, they are trying to stay with them.  A deliberate intention to cut away from how GNR acted in the past.  
GNR vs. misc. hair bands, GNR vs. Nirvana, GNR vs. the entire universe.

2.  Duff stayed with Axl the longest.  This says to me that he, more than Izzy, more than Slash, was willing to modernize their sound.  
But it didnt work out b/c of Axl's behavior.  So, instead he and Matt are gonna do it their own way.  

3. Before VR, most people associated Duff (& Slash, Matt) with the bloated tentacled monster that GNR became.  They weren't given the respect they deserved.  
So Duff returns to his Seattle roots.  I dont know how he became friends with Scott Weiland, but Weiland = cool grunge/alternative scene.  
No way in hell are they gonna hook up with Bach.

Soooo:

VR is not going to be over-the-top.  They are gonna align themselves with the current scene. No negative 'rockstar' connotations here.

I doubt they'll do stadium tours.  They'll keep it low-key. Same for their music videos (if they make any).

I think the beauty of GN'R was the different musical personalities and styles that mixed up to make that sound. Apart from Believe In Me, I thought Duff has always kinda had a modern punk sound not that dissimilar to Foos or Queens, just listen to Loaded or Beautiful Disease for proof of that.
Matt has played with the Cult who, again have changed over the years to keep modern.

So these modern elements along with the classic based style that Slash would bring would make up a very cool modern rock album!

[Booker Floyd]

1. I think it's 'interesting' that Duff & Matt are making it very clear to mingle with the current crowd in music (Foos, Audioslave, Queens of the Stone Age, etc).  Instead of trying to be above them, they are trying to stay with them.  A deliberate intention to cut away from how GNR acted in the past.  
GNR vs. misc. hair bands, GNR vs. Nirvana, GNR vs. the entire universe.

Gotta disagree...

Duffs picks arent exactly "current".  Its not like he listed off the new breed of rock acts like The Strokes, The White Stripes, and other buzz bands.  He named off veteran acts and friends.  And while youre half right about GNRs superioroty complex, youe also half wrong.  They supported "new" acts such as Nine Inch Nails, Skid Row, Blind Melon, etc...even Nirvana.  But youre right, were probably looking at a much more humble group of guys.

Another reason I dont find it interesting is because thats the kind of music Duff is genuinely into, and those band are among the best bands out there.

2.  Duff stayed with Axl the longest.  This says to me that he, more than Izzy, more than Slash, was willing to modernize their sound.  
But it didnt work out b/c of Axl's behavior.  So, instead he and Matt are gonna do it their own way.  

Maybe...Thats a tough call.  Matt is clearly the most into the "modern" thing (Im already sick of this word).  By the sounds of Duffs comments, hes not particularly interested in all of that.  I think his intentions are less calculated than that.

3. Before VR, most people associated Duff (& Slash, Matt) with the bloated tentacled monster that GNR became.  They weren't given the respect they deserved.  
So Duff returns to his Seattle roots.  I dont know how he became friends with Scott Weiland, but Weiland = cool grunge/alternative scene.  

His friendship with Weiland was actualy pretty organic, as they met through their wives.

VR is not going to be over-the-top.

I dont think that was even an issue.  Most of the excesses in GNR werent their deal anyway.  Lets not forget theyre all at or pushing 40...its safe to say their days of decadence are over.  And before anybody comments on Weiland, his drug addiction doesnt constitute decadence.

They are gonna align themselves with the current scene. No negative 'rockstar' connotations here.

Well, Weiland will catch some "negative" rock star connotations, but the rest are alright.  And I dont think theyre gonna allign themselves with the current scene that much.  Its a tough call though.  Matt and Scott will, while Slash and Duff seem content with standing alone in todays soundscape, unconcerned with how "hip" they sound.

I doubt they'll do stadium tours.  They'll keep it low-key. Same for their music videos (if they make any).

Well come on, they cant do stadium tours.  Theres only a few, realtively contemporary bands who can even do so.  This band has achieved next-to-nothing so far, so clubs/theaters are just fine for now.  Let them hopefully make their mark and take it from there.

Im 100% positive they will make videos (cant see why they wouldnt...in fact they probably have to).  Cant wait to see what they do.  "Slither" has the potential to be very cool.  And the song itself gets better with every listen, I liked it a lot at first, and now Im loving it.

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Im 100% positive they will make videos (cant see why they wouldnt...in fact they probably have to).  Cant wait to see what they do.

What I'm worried about is that the All Things Shiny network doesnt really promote bands like VR.  Slash, Duff & Matt come from a band whose videos are famous and over the top.  If they make a low-key video I'm worried it will just go unnoticed, and if they make a flashy one, we will get the inevitable GNR comparisons.  
I dont see many veteran acts (and VR somewhat fits in that category) do the flashy video thing anymore.  It's more concentrated on radio/internet/print journalism promotion.  

[madagas]

Velvet will get plenty of airplay on Mtv 2-the Foo Fighters make me wanna puke. If there is anything in the entire musical Universe that makes me wanna kill somebody, it is these pop punk bands who cop this "authentic" attitude-watered down candy ass pop is all it is. Grohl is a very talented guy and a complete monster on drums, but the Foo Fighters are garbage in my book, music for 13 year old girls who think they wanna be cool. QOTSA on the other hand and The White Stripes have their own sound and independence to them. Not a big fan of either but at least they are original.

[Miz]

Yeah, I mean check out how shit Buckethead sounds...

hate to say it, but... my point exactly.  If BH wants to fuck around like a kid in a bedroom when he records his albums, and come out with guitar sounds like that... fine.  But if Slash and Co dropped their Marshall's in favour of AmpFarm, I would be fucking angry.  BH's on record guitar sounds, are mostly very cack.  And many of them are amp sim software.  I guess it's for ease of recording. He probably makes his music in front of the PC.  But it doesn't always sound so hot.

I think his tone is pretty good.  Although, I've only heard bits of his studio stuff, but what I've heard, I thought was good.

But anyway, the argument is stupid, because Slassh would never, for all the money in the world, take anything over a Marshall.  Ever.
And I doubt they're using Pro-tools how Metallica did, so all is good.  

[jarmo]

If you read the article anarchy posted in this thread, you'll see that it says:

"All guitar overdubs on the Velvet Revolver record were cut directly to ProTools at Pulse, Josh Abraham's studio. The band co-produced the tracks alongside Abraham, but he took charge and worked on timing problems.

Slash was inititally uneasy about with the working enviroment at Pulse, but ultimately, the studio was set up to his liking."

---

I guess Slash has been using ProTools after all.




/jarmo