When Did GNR "Jump the Shark?"

[Mikkamakka]

None of them knew each other before GNR (except Izzy and Axl).

Not true.? Steven and Slash went to middle school and high school together

And Slash, Steven and Duff played together before (I think in Roadcrew).

[Sillything]

I've really defended and believed in Axl for so many years cuz I loved the band so much. I wouldn't let myself believe it sucked cuz it would have destroyed me as a person. I was on the verge of tears when they fired Steven and when Izzy left it was all over. Just hasn't sunk in until now. Izzy was the way coolest in the old band and I didn't care for Gilby at all. I was just keeping my hopes up it would get better and Axl would wear his cowboyboots again and swagger like in the Paradise City video. Cuz as mentioned many times in this thread, horn section, zig zag, was awful and the reagge version of Heavens door was just pure blasphemy compared to the marquee and ritz versions (Sorum sux and Gilby can just not be heard)
Then I thougt it was the right deciscion to go in a new direction with the new band ( their heavens door version is way better than the reagge) and then Buckethead quit and that pressrealse came and...man

[Carlos_f_Rose]

I agree with you in some things Sillything. Not all of them.

In my opinion, they jumped the shark when Axl replaced Slash for Buckethead, and the other guys, even when I know their names I dont know what they play. The old KOHD version was the best for me, that was GNR sound an not an attempt to recreate Dylan's version. And the goth guy I think Robin Finck... what was that?...

[Babooshka]

This is an interesting thread. I agree with much of what James says.

It is more when did they become a parody of themselves

Without a doubt, when they put out 'Since I Don't Have You'. It was just ridiculous. That they even recorded the thing, let alone put it on a cd, released it and then made a hideous video, shows that they were utterly lost and devoid of any creative energy.

I remember seeing the video for the first time, my jaw was agape. I couldn't believe it, the thing was so pathetic. And it was weird because after all the million dollar videos from UYI, this thing looked so cheap, ill thoughtout and rubbish. It was a clear sign that something was desperately wrong inside the GNR camp. It was like they couldn't be bothered anymore - they were merely playing up to their rock'n' roll image, they had no heart or soul left.

The bloated UYI period was the run up to all this. I have no problem with pianos, horns and grand exhibitionism, I'm a huge David Bowie fan after all. But what was going on during this time was nothing more than self-indulgence. It was huge for the sake of being huge, not because the songs or the band warranted all this stuff - reggae versions of Heavens Door, why?

[jameslofton29]

This is an interesting thread. I agree with much of what James says.

Welcome to the board. I like to see smart people here.

[RichardNixon]

This is an interesting thread. I agree with much of what James says.

It is more when did they become a parody of themselves

Without a doubt, when they put out 'Since I Don't Have You'. It was just ridiculous. That they even recorded the thing, let alone put it on a cd, released it and then made a hideous video, shows that they were utterly lost and devoid of any creative energy.

I remember seeing the video for the first time, my jaw was agape. I couldn't believe it, the thing was so pathetic. And it was weird because after all the million dollar videos from UYI, this thing looked so cheap, ill thoughtout and rubbish. It was a clear sign that something was desperately wrong inside the GNR camp. It was like they couldn't be bothered anymore - they were merely playing up to their rock'n' roll image, they had no heart or soul left.

The bloated UYI period was the run up to all this. I have no problem with pianos, horns and grand exhibitionism, I'm a huge David Bowie fan after all. But what was going on during this time was nothing more than self-indulgence. It was huge for the sake of being huge, not because the songs or the band warranted all this stuff - reggae versions of Heavens Door, why?

How is the video for SIDHY any worse than NR? I thought that video was cool as shit.

[Rob]

I don't think the NR video is really comparable to SIDHY.  I love the November Rain video because it makes the band look so cool.  There's so many great images in that video.  From Slash playing on top of the piano, to him playing outside the church, the really cool "live" footage.  The band just comes off really badass in that video.  The video for SIDHY is just bizarre.  Matt has that really stupid haircut.  You got that weird devil dude jumpin' around.  Its not cool.  Its just weird.  They're both over the top, but that's where the similarities end.

[RichardNixon]

I liked the devil! Shoulda done a video for "Black Leather."

[Crashdiet]

I'm going to have to say when axl decided that he should swim with fucking dolphins.... while biker shorts, flutes, and huge blow up serpintines are very unrock n roll.... i think swimming with dolphins to symbolize heaven really takes the fucking cake.

[RichardNixon]

Axl was like a heavy-metal Liberacie (sp?). When was the last time there has been a *real* huge star like that?

[vernset]

Ok, for those of you who don't know, "jumping the shark" is when something ?great becomes a joke ?in and of itself. So, for all you noble scholars, I ask, when did GNR jump the shark?

For me, it was cancelling the rest of the 02 tour with no explanation.

Your thoughts?

For me? the moment was when a stunt guitarrist raised from the sea, the wedding video with guitar solos in the middle of nowhere and when Izzy said "enough" and? slash was fired.

I Love Axl anyway, can't wait to hear Chinnesse democracy, but I guess I must.?

[Bridge]

And Slash, Steven and Duff played together before (I think in Roadcrew).

Correct.

and? slash was fired.

Slash was not fired.? He quit in 1996, and Axl officially got the rights to the name in 1997, so therefore Axl could not have fired Slash, nor did he ever claim to have fired Slash.? The "Axl fired Slash" rumor was started by axl nutcases around the web, but has no factual basis whatsoever.


nobody was fired but Steven, and hired guns Matt and Gilby.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

I wonder what really made Slash leave, the band, then Duff and Izzy.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Personally, I don't think GNR "jumped the shark." 

I'll stand by the SIDHY video only because Jennifer Driver is one of the hottest pieces of ass I've ever seen.    For some reason, I also dig seeing Axl appear to be so content.  (sure, it may be acting, but I like seeing the guy happy)  The rest of the video is almost a bad joke...a waste of Oldman's acting talent.

There's nothing lame about the NR video.  Estranged's video has many cool moments, but all in all doesn't do the song justice.  It seems to go in many different directions, it kinda lacks flow.  (it's still their best song ever IMO)

Most of my buddies who use to be big fans, would probably say the shark was jumped when Slash left.

[Crashdiet]

I'm going to have to say when axl decided that he should swim with fucking dolphins.... while biker shorts, flutes, and huge blow up serpintines are very unrock n roll.... i think swimming with dolphins to symbolize heaven really takes the fucking cake.

Un Rock N' Roll? So what?

The dolphin thing makes sense and it's great.

Plain and simple axl just got werid. I mean you have the jungle, its so easy, Paradise city, Sweet Child video's where the boyz are authentic and true to where they came from. They you have axl jumping off an oil tanker swimming with dolphins WTF? I mean if axl was going through some sort of emotional growth period or whatever thats fine. But spending 3 million of his bands money filming symbolic gestures of his transformation in a video that got played 5 times on mtv and once on the radio it completely selfish and a clear sign that no one had the balls to put axl in his place. Slash and duff and management should have said

"No fucking way axl, you are NOT renting an oil tanker and swiming with dolphins and puting out a 10 minute fucking single for an album that has run its course"

What would axl have done? smashed a hotel room? quit the band.... whatever it would have been better than letting him control and drive the whole fucking GNR name into the ground.

Don't get me wrong. i've supported and defended axl all these years. But i'm fucking tired of this. The robin the goth, buckethead the freak playing with nunchuks on stage playing star war theme music and chicken picking..... Give me a break.

I realize axl wants what he thinks is best for GNR. But he needs someone to stand up to him and let him know when he is being a quack.

it all should have started when axl came out wearing tight biker shorts and a feather fucking boa.

SLASH: uh axl you look like your going to the GCA's
AXL: dude what are GCA's
Slash: the gay cyclist awards
AXL: fuck you slash
*Breaks some shit
SLASH: ax really dude you look like a werido, now put on these leather pants, these cops shades, cool tee shirt, throw out the lithum, and here is a bottle of jack...

God if only

[Jonathan]

What the hell are you talking about? Haha.

And do not insult Buckethead in any kind of way.. Have you ever watched/heard him play?

He is great, so keep your mouth shut on that one.

[Carlos_f_Rose]

I dont care about BH or the other guys, maybe they are excellent players, but for me they dont have the feeling Slash has.

And Slash and the others didnt talk shit about Axl all the time, they just tell the truth. Axl sometimes behaved like a king and sometimes behaves like a spoiled child.

[NickNasty]

Wow-this thread won't die....

Anyway, I stand by my position-Vancouver+ Philly Incident put this band (Axl Rose) in a state of ridiculousness that it may never recover from---the bloated UYI tour was undoubtedly pretty absurd, but it sold for the time period...I guess to me 'Jumping the Shark' is the point where you lose almost complete mainstream credbility, for howver ridiculous those last few years of the orginal band may have seemed, they were still one of the hottest bands on the planet. The question remains whether one can recover from the jump......

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Hi guys... I was thinking more about this thread, and its kind of funny how -- we GNR FANS-- suddenly find GNR ridiculous in some ways, well shouldnt we be supporting those musicians instead of criticizing' em. 

[Carlos_f_Rose]

Well I dont like the NEW GNR.

On the other hand, people is starting to call ridiculous to some of the things they did old and new.