Rumour from Blabbermouth.net

[Will]

(thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh).

Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad":

http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg

We just use the spelling the band is using!

[pilferk]

(thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh).

Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad":

http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg

We just use the spelling the band is using!

Yeah, I know..thankfully, Jarmo has it spelled BOTH ways on the main site.  Once I used the "real" spelling, I was able to turn up the references....which is probably why I'd never been able to find them before. I've always used the Rhiad spelling, too.

[Lineker10]

(thanks HTGTH for being one of the ONLY sites to correctly spell Riyadh).

Well, the band themselves spell Riyadh, "Rhiad":

http://www.gnrfrance.net/GNR/Photos/Concerts/UK-08-02/londres-setlist.jpg

We just use the spelling the band is using!

That could of been printed up by anyone though - mabye not Axl or any other band member. Look how "Out Ta Get Me" is spelt "Out To Get Me"

[holidayidol]

Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political.

And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!?  And you don't think that reason has any political undertone at all?

Booker - I don't understand you're question. What's your definition of "political"?

And as far as Riyadh vs. Rhiad.....the spelling of the actual geographical place is Riyadh, of course the capital of Saudi Arabia. But isn't the only source of the Rhiad spelling from a setlist at the Vegas show?  And doesn't a roadie make the setlists?  I doubt that's the official spelling of the song.   Who knows??!



and here's some bedouins...


And here's the latest news articles involving Riyadh and Bedouins:
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=riyadh+bedouins&sa=N&tab=wn

[jarmo]

And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!?

Madagascar used to be part of Africa until it broke away and shifted out in to the ocean.

Africa - band, Madagascar - one member of the band?



/jarmo

[Booker Floyd]

Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political.
Booker - I don't understand you're question. What's your definition of "political"?

Since you so firmly believe that these are political songs, Im asking you to explain the politics of these songs.  What are the political viewpoints being expressed?  

The answer, of course, is that there are none.  Axl himself has basically explained that he chose the title "Chinese Democracy" because he likes the sound of it, and that its not an "intelligent song," its not answering any questions, and its not "pro or con about China".  These are his words, yet youre so brilliant that you roll your eyes when I point out that these songs are non-political.  All of the lyrics in these songs suggest nothing other than Axls personal emotions and feelings.  

But like I said, grasp at those straws and prove me wrong with an explanation of what makes these songs political.

[holidayidol]

Ok, what images is Axl using to convey his personal emotions and feelings?
What does he compare it to?  

[pilferk]

Thanks Pilf for coming back to say that one was political.

And furthermore, of course Madagascar is just the name of a country, but are you seriously telling me you haven't considered why the song is called the name of a country that doesn't appear in the lyrics?!?  And you don't think that reason has any political undertone at all?

Madagascar is the name of a country.  It physically broke away from Africa, drifted off the coast, and became an island.....I can't, for the life of me, see how that has anything to do with politics.

 And again, Axl is using Madagascar as a metaphor....he's not actually TALKING about Madagascar.

[Booker Floyd]

Ok, what images is Axl using to convey his personal emotions and feelings?
What does he compare it to?  

grasp at those straws

If you cant offer an explanation to back yourself up, then this discussion is finished.

[holidayidol]

Wow!  You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy.

It's simple, Axl uses political images to either

#1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc
#2 make a political comment

Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less.  But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox.

[Will]

That could of been printed up by anyone though - mabye not Axl or any other band member. Look how "Out Ta Get Me" is spelt "Out To Get Me"

If I remember correctly, the management confirmed the new tracks to the press after the HOB show in 2001, and they spelled it "Rhiad". Of course no one knows if it's gonna be spelled like this in case the song is on the album, but I tend to think it would be the case.

As for the political meanings of the songs, of course Rhiad and CD have political titles but I don't really see any political point of view in the lyrics though...That doesn't mean there will be no political song on the record. I've got the feeling Axl wrote something about 9.11.

[pilferk]

Wow!  You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy.

It's simple, Axl uses political images to either

#1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc
#2 make a political comment

Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less.  But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox.

No, it's not..at least not in a literary sense.  That's the whole point of allegory.  Chinese Democracy is fiction..it doesn't exist.  Sure, it's a political concept, but it's one used to convey a non-political message.  The song is not political..it doesn't talk about politics at all....any more than "Maddy" talks about Madagascar.  Axl uses metaphors constantly in his lyrics....CD is just another example of that.  

[holidayidol]

If Axl uses metaphors, then he's clearly using political metaphors.

po?lit?i?cal
Function: adjective
1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government

No matter what angle you choose to look at it, it's still a political song.

[pilferk]

If Axl uses metaphors, then he's clearly using political metaphors.

po?lit?i?cal
Function: adjective
1 a : of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government

No matter what angle you choose to look at it, it's still a political song.

Thanks so much for proving my point...For the song to be a "political song", it would mean the song's meaning would have to be "of or relating to government, a government, or the conduct of government."  CD does none of that, now does it? So, the song is not political in nature.

Just because something uses political imagery, or metaphors based on political concepts, it does not mean the thing itself is political.  

Now look up allegory....

[holidayidol]

So, the highly controversial and long-fought political movement for a democracy in China has nothing to do with "the conduct of government" in China?

Look up common sense.

[pilferk]

So, the highly controversial and long-fought political movement for a democracy in China has nothing to do with "the conduct of government" in China?

Look up common sense.

Ah, the tactics of those who've lost arguments..decending to insults.

Yes, the highly controversial and long fought political movement for democracy in china is very political.  

The song, "Chinese Democracy" has absolutely NOTHING to do with that movement, whatsoever, other than using it as an allegory for some bit of Axl's life.  Again, the song's not political.   Rail and argue to the contrary all you wish.....you're still wrong.  

[Booker Floyd]

Wow!  You bowed out of that argument quicker than I thought. I actually thought you'd be a bit harder to stump, but that was too easy.

You can stop with the phony self-congratulation, nobodys buiying it.  The fact is, theres really no argument because youre admittedly basing your opinion of a stupid technicality.  Your logic: "Its called "Chinese Democracy," its gotta be political!"  Well, sure, if youre simple enough to ignore that theres nothing of political significance in the songs content, I guess you could call it political, because you apparently dont know any better.

But those of us who prefer to use common sense rather than silly technicalities know that these songs arent political.  Axl himself has essentially said the same...but you still dont get it.  

And its very telling that you still havent attempted to extract any political messages out of these supposed "political" songs.  Ive asked you three times now, but you continue to avoid it.  Now, I realize why this is, and I hope you do too.  

It's simple, Axl uses political images to either

#1 convey his own deprication, emotions, self-image, etc

Thus making it a non-political song.  

#2 make a political comment

Id ask you to point out these political comments, but youll continue to dance around it.

Either way, evoking political images in song is what it is. If it's non-political to you, I could care less.  But a song titled "Chinese Democracy" after one of the largest Eastern political controversies, is a "political" song no matter what....even if it turns out to be about Stephanie pissing in a litterbox.

Oh, so if a title alludes to something political, its a political song - even if the actual song content is not political.  Ooookay.  
If you dont see how retarded this logic is, then I dont know what to tell you.  

[holidayidol]

You said "look up allegory" I said "look up common sense". If you're claiming the "oppression due to insult" tunnel out of this one, then farewell. But it doesn't change the fact that these are political songs.

If Axl wants to use a political movement to allegorize his own life, and use the title of that moevement as the title of the song, the bottom line is that he is using the guise of politics. This is political.  If you did not know what the POLITICAL movement of the chinese struggle for democracy was all about, then this allegory would make no sense. You have to have poiltical knowledge to make and understand political allegories.  Sorry, but this song is political in nature. And THAT is common sense.

[pilferk]

You said "look up allegory" I said "look up common sense". If you're claiming the "oppression due to insult" tunnel out of this one, then farewell. But it doesn't change the fact that these are political songs.

If Axl wants to use a political movement to allegorize his own life, and use the title of that moevement as the title of the song, the bottom line is that he is using the guise of politics. This is political.  If you did not know what the POLITICAL movement of the chinese struggle for democracy was all about, then this allegory would make no sense. You have to have poiltical knowledge to make and understand political allegories.  Sorry, but this song is political in nature. And THAT is common sense.

I said look up allegory because the definition of the term is pertinent to the conversation.  I was quite serious.  Allegory is never, ever about what is expressly being used as a symbol. Basic literary concept...

And I've not argued "opression due to insult"..I've argued you've used the tactic of insulting the one who has turned your argument into Swiss Cheese..a common tactic of those who have lost an argument (and make no mistake about it..you have).

Yes, Axl is using the guise of politics as his allegory.  Yes, you probably have to have some rudimentary knowledge of current world politics to understand the allegory (I would suggest you need the same to fully appreciate the latest Brit rag's article on the weekend social exploits of Prince William as well...) No, that, in and of itself, doesn't make the song political. For the song to be political, it's meaning would have to fit the definition you provided. It doesn't. It's a very simple concept.  If you refuse to understand that most basic of concepts, well, who am I to disabuse you of your illusions. Continue to apply your flawed logic....I, however, have made my point.  I won't continue to bore the group by making it ad infinitum.

The song is not political.  Don't believe me? Fine by me.

"You can use your illusions...let them take you where they may.."

[lastroots]

Just my two cents:

First off, you can't say how Rhiad is spelled correctly. The Arabian original of the word has not the same letters we use and there are no strict rules. I'm just learning that language and there are multiple ways to write them with our letters. The most correct one according to pronounciation would be "Rhiadh".

For the songs, Pilferk is correct, they aren't political.

Madagascar - I agree with Jarmo, makes most sense.

Chinese Democracy - uses political references as symbol and it's not very original. Axl shouldn't use things he doesn't really know about. All in all I see the cd lyrics mostly about CD itself and Axl work on it and the new band (our baby got to rule the nation / all I got is precious time)

Rhiadh & The Bedouins - Well, Rhiadh is a city, Bedouins are (or better: were) a group of arabian people. In some way, of course they were a political movement, even if they had not described themselves that way. But this would take too long here. Look up some books about that, there are a lotta good ones out there about Arabian and Persian history. The song lyrics itself however have nothing to do with that. They're just Axl complaing about his whatever (well, that maybe the parallel - Arabian people have their very own way of being sad or frustrated - I guess there are people in your town who can tell you more about the topic).

For the Blabbermouth rumour: Complete BS!


/lastroots