Izzy?s guitars on USI albums

[Slashly]

Don?t you think thay  killed him in the mixes??
There are songs in wich  only Slash plays guitar, but there are others in wich Izzy gets guitar  credits and you can?t even hear his guitar.
I read a quote of him  that was something like this:
"As I didn?t wrn?t to the mixing for the album they mixed it without considering me.When I heard the songs after, the only thing you could hear was  this huge Les Paul and I couldn?t hear myself.When the  tour started  I had to play with the volume at 6 or 7 so I could bearly hear myself."

And then they did the same with Gilby:
In the  Tokyo DVD for example you just hear Gilby on wild horses, a bit in RQ and in his solo on night train.But on Double Talking Jive you basicaly DON?T HEAR HIM
What do you think  about this


P.S:Sorry if I wrote hear incorrectly, I didn?t remember hoe to write it

[matt88]

Yeah i know what u mean. I think Slash has always been a little selfish about the arrangment of guitars.

On the tokyo dvd's i barely even heard gilby i the only time was on wild horses. One of the problems imo of the UYI tour was that the guitars weren't loud enough, so izzy's and then gilby's rythym was so low. Even Slash's guitar should have been up a couple of notches.

On the UYI albums all yoy hear is slash, you hardly hear izzy, during the solos of estranged you can hear izzy's rythm and a couple of other songs his rythm is loud enough, but for 80 precent of the albums you barely heard him which i thought was very selfish of slash

[blues_rock_axeman]

Slash has said that he HAD to do Izzy's parts on a lot of UYI because Izzy just didn't do them...which is probably why Slash's guitar is overbearing on many tracks...

I personally don't like some of Slash's rhythm work, and also think that a fair few songs were very thin without Gilby's guitar on the UYI tours...turn the dude up!

[Captain P?l]

in Rocket Qeen you can barely hear izzy... and in Anything Goes, i noticed a riff played real silent just last year when i was wearing headphones!


sometimes Gilby turned himself sown too.... you think they just turned up his monitor? :p

EDIT:
yes. slash is selfish.. listen to Dont Damn Me. you can hardly hear Izzy/the ryth guitar... slash is too loud... and in WTTJ those slides and shit slash does are way to loud.

but i also think Duff sounds too weak on those albums too... in GH you can really hear what he plays  

[Slashly]

I haven?t heared GH but I think Duff?s bass is loud  enough
But Izzy and Gilby were really fucked  on the UYI albums and world tours.
And probably what hapened wih Gilby was  this next:
As Gilby was new he didn?t dare to say to Slash (althogh they  seemed to get along very well) "Hey dude, I wan?t my fuckin?guitar louder!"And he didn?t.

Izzy  is pretty loud on AFD, but I don?t think it?s loud enough.In Think About You, you have to pay attention to your left speaker to hear  his "solo"  

[Pviljoen]

I don't think a lot of you really understand on how recording works....

Especially on a recording, you DON'T want the melodic part of the rythym section blasting over the lead lines. They are basically meant to provide a harmonic backdrop for Axl and Slash. Listen to some of the greatest bands of all time, notice how few of them had rythym guitarists? They are not NECESSARY, they round out the sound and make solos sound better, because there is a harmonic backdrop for the soloist. The UYI albums would sound far harsher and more raw if Izzy's tracks were boosted in the mix. When the rythym in the melody is important, you can hear Izzy, but when the focus of the song is melody, Izzy's tracks are NOT important for the average commercial ear. This has nothing to do with Slash being selfish, it's doing what people are interested in hearing.

His blistering leads sound good with a sprinkling of rythym behind him, trust me it would be very difficult to cut through a mix (especially live) if Duff and Izzy were crushing the rythym, it would sound garbled and unfocussed.

By the way, I hear Gilby just fine in the UYI DVDs.

[Dizzy]

First of all.....

Slash has said that he HAD to do Izzy's parts on a lot of UYI because Izzy just didn't do them...

That's correct......

I had a lot of resentment against Izzy for not playing on the 'Illusions'....I had to double up guitars for him on most of it.  He didn't play very much.

We had to work really hard to bring Izzy's parts up to scale, because he wasn't in the studio much.

--Slash


Second of all....

I don't think a lot of you really understand on how recording works....

Especially on a recording, you DON'T want the melodic part of the rythym section blasting over the lead lines. They are basically meant to provide a harmonic backdrop for Axl and Slash. Listen to some of the greatest bands of all time, notice how few of them had rythym guitarists? They are not NECESSARY, they round out the sound and make solos sound better, because there is a harmonic backdrop for the soloist. The UYI albums would sound far harsher and more raw if Izzy's tracks were boosted in the mix. When the rythym in the melody is important, you can hear Izzy, but when the focus of the song is melody, Izzy's tracks are NOT important for the average commercial ear. This has nothing to do with Slash being selfish, it's doing what people are interested in hearing.

Could not have said it better, so I didn't.  

[Izzy]

Damn

I was listening to my assortment of GNR cd's today and for the very first time i noitced Izzy's guitar work...strange in nearly 10 years i have been completely oblivious to it - its sooooooo quiet, one wonders what the point in having it all was...

[Slashly]

Especially on a recording, you DON'T want the melodic part of the rythym section blasting over the lead lines. They are basically meant to provide a harmonic backdrop for Axl and Slash. Listen to some of the greatest bands of all time, notice how few of them had rythym guitarists? They are not NECESSARY, they round out the sound and make solos sound better, because there is a harmonic backdrop for the soloist. The UYI albums would sound far harsher and more raw if Izzy's tracks were boosted in the mix. When the rythym in the melody is important, you can hear Izzy, but when the focus of the song is melody, Izzy's tracks are NOT important for the average commercial ear. This has nothing to do with Slash being selfish, it's doing what people are interested in hearing.

I don?t mean Izzy to sound louder than Slash?s rithm traks but almost the same.
Even on Slash?s solos (wich it?s a 3rd guitar) Slash?s rithm track sounds louder than Izzy?s rithm track.
And on Think About You, Izzy?s solo ?T?S A MELODIC PART but Slash sounds higher than him

[Pviljoen]

if rythym and lead were EQed the same, the record would sound really raw and brash... not a good thing.

[Slashly]

It?s a perfect thing for Slash solos to be higher than anything but it?s not perfect that slash rythm track blocks you from hearing Izzy.

[matt88]

It?s a perfect thing for Slash solos to be higher than anything but it?s not perfect that slash rythm track blocks you from hearing Izzy.

Yeah exactly. When it's a verse, intro with no solos theres 2 guitars. Lead and rythm. And when the rythm is very difficult to hear, when the solo's are happening, there's a 3rd guitar so slash's solo, and rythm drowns out all of izzy's rythm which was difficult enough to hear with 2 guitars

[Izzy]

if rythym and lead were EQed the same, the record would sound really raw and brash... not a good thing.

Maybe - but i think we can agree Izzy's guitar volume could be increased by up to 50% - and still would be too quiet

Damn u Mike Clink!!!!

[ClintroN]

Tokyo vid is shocking, i feel real sorry for Gilby 'cause you cant hear shit
i dont think Slash deliberatly made Izzy's parts quieter on UYI's, if it's anyone it's  Mike fucking Clink

[Slashly]

Yeah, they probably  let Mike take the job a lot to himself and he turned Izzy down.I don?t think Slash didn?t wanted Izzy to be heared......

[Dizzy]

Tokyo vid is shocking, i feel real sorry for Gilby 'cause you cant hear shit
i dont think Slash deliberatly made Izzy's parts quieter on UYI's, if it's anyone it's  Mike fucking Clink

Again, keep in mind that Izzy didn't record many rhythm tracks for the UYI albums.  So it's often Slash's rhythm guitars that are "too quiet", not Izzy's.

[ClintroN]

cant find my UYI 1 case but in no.2 the only songs Izzy is'nt credited for is Cival War n' Shotgun Blues.
I know that their might be more but either the "rythem guitarist"

[Dizzy]

cant find my UYI 1 case but in no.2 the only songs Izzy is'nt credited for is Cival War n' Shotgun Blues.

Yeah, and if you read the credits, Slash is credited as having played both Lead and rhythm guitar even on songs where Izzy is listed as having played.  That means Izzy recorded a track, but either he didn't record a long enough part or he didn't record it well enough, forcing Slash to record the same part himself and insert it into the song where need be.

[Slashly]

Yeah, probably.But Slash ain?t a good rithm guitar player.He is a little  ant compared to Izzy in rithm.He gave much more color to the songs and played with diferent rithms, upstrokes and downstrokes in diferent combinations.Izzy is the Rithm Man
I miss  him playin? with Duff, Steven, Duff and Slash
Fuck, I miss the old, AFD Gn?R!!!!!!

[gf]

Really, I don't like slash rythm guitar. He just play the chords and that's all.

Izzy guitar is much more fun, he makes bluesy variations to the chords that make them sound great.

Listen to dead horse, and compare the guitars tracks, also, perfect crime has a good rythm track (by izzy of course).

[darkmonth]

yeah yeah... whatever.  Slash's rhythm work is just as cool as Izzy's.  My God, Izzy rocks but he ain't this superhuman guitarist you know.  His shit was cool and still is, but Slash is a better guitarist.  He doesn't just play chords.  The whole point was that both their guitars worked together.  That's the whole thing of AFD era GnR, the fucking band was 100% perfect. Not one single problem musically.  Things fell apart, sure... but musically, those guys were perfect.  I don't think anyone on the board would dispute that.

[Slashly]

Exactly.The thing was that Izzy filled what Slash left and that they both filled the other.Not just to play the same.
OzzyCat, no one here is saying that Izzy played better than Slash, just that he was a fucking cool guitarist

[Slashly]

It?s not you imagination, conny.I hear Izzy perfectly on AFD.Maybie he could be a little, little higher, but it?s fine.
Read the name of the topic : Izzy?s guitar on the UYI albums.
My problem is with UYI.
The only thing I don?t like about the album is the fact that in one song there?s just one guitar player, in another you have Axl playing and in others you have Izzy, it?s a total mess.Besides that, it?s an awsome album.The best one, with  AFD sitting to his left.


Baby Slash//

[Rebecca Duff Rose]

YOU CANNOT HAVE SLASH WITHOUT IZZY!
Now they are two of the greatist guitar partners ever!

The way they worked off each other is amazing!



Hee hee- you know something you guys!

Writing this... well... i wrote is in present tense instead of Past tense- i had to correct myself!
Cos they aren't together anymore!  

Pretty sad huh?
 

[Slashly]

Hee hee- you know something you guys!

Writing this... well... i wrote is in present tense instead of Past tense- i had to correct myself!
Cos they aren't together anymore!  

Pretty sad huh?
 

But they still are,Rebecca, they still are the best!!


Baby Slash//

[Bahad]

Listen Rocket Queen on liveera, have u heard the 2nd guitar whover plays it Izzy or Gilby. Damn 2nd guitar is an awesome rhtym melody but all we hear is Slash. In whole UYI tour guitars are low but Izzy and Gilby were barely heard. Whoever is responsible for this sux ass.

Also for IYU too. Izzy's volume would be double.

[AdZ]

There isn't a rhythm guitar on the rocket queen track.

[Slashly]

There isn't a rhythm guitar on the rocket queen track

WHAT THE FUCK??!!Do you mean Izzy doesn?t play rithm or that there isn?t a Gilby/Izzy trak??!!I?m going to listen to my Live Era right now!!!

Baby Slash//

[Slashly]

Holy Fukcing Damn and-other-insulting-words SHIT!!!!
There ain?t a rithm track on RQ!!!I had never realesed!!
Fuck the mixing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Baby Slash//

[matt88]

Holy Fukcing Damn and-other-insulting-words SHIT!!!!
There ain?t a rithm track on RQ!!!I had never realesed!!
Fuck the mixing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Baby Slash//

What so your sayin their's only 1 guitar on Rocket Queen?

[Slashly]

Put your live era CD and jsut listen to the left track, there ain?t no rithim guitar......FUCK!!



Baby Slash//

[darkmonth]

To be honest, I don't much like Live recordings ... well... the best ones I have heard in AGES, are the new VR ones of Bodies, and Negative Creep (the pro ones).  They are mixed so well... the guitars are chunky as fuck.  Most live albums really lower the chunkiness of the guitars.  Fucks me off.  Hearing Slash live on stage is like being hit by a fucking train, but on record, live recordings sound so weak.  It's the producers fault.

[Izzy]

To be honest, I don't much like Live recordings ... well... the best ones I have heard in AGES, are the new VR ones of Bodies, and Negative Creep (the pro ones).  They are mixed so well... the guitars are chunky as fuck.  Most live albums really lower the chunkiness of the guitars.  Fucks me off.  Hearing Slash live on stage is like being hit by a fucking train, but on record, live recordings sound so weak.  It's the producers fault.

I agree - live recordings never sound...right

On the live era album Slash's guitar work sounds totally different - on Sweet Child O'mine the mix makes it sound like he's playing from underneath the stage...

Live era was a pretty lazy offering no wonder u can't here Izzy n' Gilby

[matt88]

Put your live era CD and jsut listen to the left track, there ain?t no rithim guitar......FUCK!!



Baby Slash//

Shit your right....i never fuckin realized that

[Slashly]

I think this could be because it?s a Gilby era recording and judging by other live RQ recorings with Gilby, he didn?t play very well in that song.He just does some power chords, what a shit.Why didn?t they put Ritz 88?s RQ??



Baby Slash//

[Mr Cowbell ?]

Maybe they turned down his amp in the studio like they did on Stage. Afteral thats what Axl said they did to him, maybe thats why he left.

[Slashly]

Can you imagine how horrible must have been  to Gilby when he realized he wasn?t heard and he was the only one hearing himself??
A dude-Hey, Gilby why don?t we hear your guitar man?
Gilby-Fuck you man, I hear myself perfectly!

Abd then realizing the dude was right??
Poor Gilby!!!



Baby Slash//

[Mr Cowbell ?]

I am sure like Sorum, he was just happy for the chance to play with GNR. He seems to be on good terms with Axl (as of 2000) when Axl joined him on stage for a cover