// why did they write Civil War ??

[chineseilusions]

I allways thought the song was about the bay of pigs

[Scottyl333]

The song is about war in general.  Its not about a certain civil war.  Its funny because the only two wars that happened during that period was panama and the gulf war.  And it seems that he supported both.  For panama he stated that he would have liked to have been down there with the troops when they got Norega.  I believed they used some of there music blasting into the Vatican embassy, where Norega was hiding, do try to draw him out.  Then he made that statement about the gulf war.  He supports this country and thats one of the reasons why I like him.  hes not like the dixie chicks.

[Imfuckincrazy]

The point of the song is a metaphor paralleling the ideologic conflicts in the band (which eventually led to the breakup) to civil war within a nation.

That's exactly what I've always thought and the point I was going to make. I guess great minds do think alike.  

Though it could be wrong, it's a thought to consider being that the band always seemed to be at war with each other. Quite sad...  

[KeVoRkIaN]

I think the word "civil" was put in there in terms of the civilized state of war - how clean it is shown at times on tv.  I doubt it is about a particular civil war.

[Axlative]

OK, I never really thought this thing all that deeply, but now that I do it seems all too logical to NOT to argue against all the points made here.

For the record, my point is still that the song is about all the revolutions and wars, civil or not, that the US has participated in after the WW2.

I guess it's best to make my point with quotes:

"[intro] ...some men you just can't reach...."

No matter who's in charge (the president), it seems that they're all out for war and their minds cannot be altered through the ways of democracy.

"Look at your young men fighting/Look at your women crying/Look at your young men dying/The way they always done before"

Ok, nothing special here.... can be applied to any theory regarding the lyrics. But it's still about the soldiers dying in the wars they're sent to (through out the history)...

"Look at the hate we're breeding/Look at the fear we're feedin'/Look at the lies we're leadin'/The way we're always done before"

Look at the consequences of our actions. We're simply maiking more enemies! Look at the real reasons why we're fighting. Look at the big picture. And this is how it's always been...

"My hands are tied/The billions shift from side to side/And the wars go on with brainwashed pride/For the love of God and our human rights/And all these things are swept aside/By bloody hands time can't deny/And are washed away by your genocide/And history hides the lies of our civil wars"

I can't do anything about it. Money changes hands, wars go on... Love of God and human rights are forgotten to accomplish more important goals. History will tell the truth, but time can make all these things forgotten...

"D'you wear a black armband/When they shot the man/Who said "Peace could last forever"/And in my first memories/They shot Kennedy/I went numb when I learned to see/So I never fell for Vietnam/We got the wall of D.C. to remind us all/That you can't trust freedom/When it's not in your hands/When everybody's fightin'/For their promised land"

Did you really care when they killed the man whos was truly pro-peace? I started to understand after that... I never believed the reasons behind the Vietnam war. There's the wall of D.C. to remind us that freedom isn't an unambigous concept because you cannot decide what's good for everyone, because everyone is looking at it from their own point of view. And everyone is fighting for their own conception of freedom. And that cannot be controlled by any single person."

"And I don't need your civil war/It feeds the rich while it buries the poor/You're power hungry sellin' soldiers/In a human grocery store/Ain't that fresh/I don't need your civil war...."

The wars that we're in benefit the rich (oil etc.... do I need to explain more???), but kill the poor (no rich dude has ever died in a battle for commodities...). The government is providing military services (i.e. lives of the soliders) like any daily grocery to gain economic benefits from the wars.

"Look at the shoes your filling/Look at the blood we're spilling/Look at the world we're killing/The way we've always done before/Look in the doubt we've wallowed/Look at the leaders we've followed/Look at the lies we've swallowed/And I don't want to hear no more"

Look what we're doing to the world outside. And that's how it's always been. Look at what kind of lies the leaders have told us to justify these wars. Look at all the lies they've told us to gain our acceptance....


"My hands are tied/For all I've seen has changed my mind/But still the wars go on as the years go by/With no love of God or human rights/'Cause all these dreams are swept aside/By bloody hands of the hypnotized/Who carry the cross of homicide/And history bears the scars of our civil wars"

I can't do anything about it. What I've seen has made me understand. But the wars still continue without any regard to God or human rights because all those "dreams" are bypassed in order to gain greater economic benefits.  The brainwashed truly believe in what they're doing, but don't understand the value of human lives they're responsible for. And time hides all the crimes (that stain our nation), but history cannot be altered.

"We practice selective annihilation of mayors and government officials/For example to create a vacuum/
Then we fill that vacuum/As popular war advances/Peace is closer"

This I see as a quote that could as well describe the US antics in many countries. So it basically states that the US actions aren't any different from those of the guerilla movements' that are so harshly depicted in the news.


That's it. Hope someone agrees with me. I just got back from a bar so sorry for the possible typos... I'm a bit tipsy.... ok, drunk as fuck....

Oh, and I don't give a fuck if Axl has been pro-war after the declaration of some wars. That's patriotism. The main issue is what he really thinks about the reasons and motivations of the war in the first place. The prior is simply supporting of the soldiers occupied in the wars. The latter is about the real opinions regarding the decisions and policies that result in these wars.

[POPmetal]

George Harrison's wife was organizing a romanian orphans album. George phoned Axl and asked them to put something forward. Slash wrote the music (izzy didn't write or play on it). Axl then added lyrics, which arose from the fact that many of the orphans came from civil wars in eastern europe.

I'm fairly sure it was written before the gulf war began.

Dude.someone got their facts wrong. There was no civil war in Romania,just a revolution in 1989. I should know,I live there The only civil war in Eastern Europe was in Yugoslavia,but that started in 92. And the place ain't crawling with orphans either!!!

What is a violent revolution (which it was in Romania) if not a civil war?

Either way, I doubt Axl was writing about the revolution/civil war in Romania, cuz anyone criticizing the civil war in Romania and claiming that it 'benefitted the rich while it buried the poor' is fucking moron and has no clue about what was going on. Removing Ceaucesco's communist regime is about as worthy a reason for fighting a war as you can possible have. It got rid of a Marxist regime that was looting the poor to sustain the lavish habits of a few. It shows that war does not always feed the rich while burying the poor. Even though the casualties are always high, war can also serve a noble purpose.

[Voodoochild]

He supports this country and thats one of the reasons why I like him.  hes not like the dixie chicks.

Look for Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11  . It would explain dixie chicks atittude. Anyways, what the hell USA had to do with Panama despite obvious money reasons? Great reason to support his country, huh?
Back on topic, I guess Axl didn't need to related the lyrics with any war at the time. I've always thought Civil War was about the wars and violence and how innocent people (young soldiers too) have to die in a battlefield for an unknow reason...

[POPmetal]

He supports this country and thats one of the reasons why I like him.  hes not like the dixie chicks.

Look for Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11  . It would explain dixie chicks atittude.

But what would explain Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11? Blind adherence to leftist ideology? Black helicopters? A little too much weed?

[Voodoochild]

But what would explain Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11? Blind adherence to leftist ideology? Black helicopters? A little too much weed?

Or maybe some truth with facts.  
Anyways, it's not GNR and we shouldn't talk about this in this thread anymore.  

[blues_rock_axeman]

The performance had one of my favorite visuals:  Adler doing a very excited sideways run to the drum kit, enthusiastically leaping toward his seat, tripping and just wiping out.  Funny stuff, and he seemed to crack up about it.
/Mike

Of course, it maybe isnt so funny when you think how disorientated he was due to his drug addiction of the time.

[2NaFish]

George Harrison's wife was organizing a romanian orphans album. George phoned Axl and asked them to put something forward. Slash wrote the music (izzy didn't write or play on it). Axl then added lyrics, which arose from the fact that many of the orphans came from civil wars in eastern europe.

I'm fairly sure it was written before the gulf war began.

Dude.someone got their facts wrong. There was no civil war in Romania,just a revolution in 1989. I should know,I live there The only civil war in Eastern Europe was in Yugoslavia,but that started in 92. And the place ain't crawling with orphans either!!!

Dude, someone got their reading wrong. I never said that Romania had had a civil war and i never said the place was crawling with orphans.

[POPmetal]

But what would explain Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11? Blind adherence to leftist ideology? Black helicopters? A little too much weed?

Or maybe some truth with facts.  
Anyways, it's not GNR and we shouldn't talk about this in this thread anymore.  

To get back to GN'R, I'm glad Axl isn't as gullible as the Dixie Chicks to believe people, like Mr. Moore, who stage parts of their "documentaries" and combine facts, half truths, and outright lies to make up contrived arguments that appeal to idealistic people, like college students, who are naive enough to pay him their money to hear him speak his lies and to watch his fallacious movies.

I do like Moore as a capitalist though. He is very good at self promotion. There's a lot to be learned form his marketing skills if you want to make a lot of $$$. Maybe Axl should hire him to promote Chinese Democracy.  Change the name to American Communism and we have a hit on every college campus. It will probably break all sales records in France too

[Scottyl333]

He supports this country and thats one of the reasons why I like him.  hes not like the dixie chicks.

Look for Michael Moore's Farenheit 9/11  . It would explain dixie chicks atittude. Anyways, what the hell USA had to do with Panama despite obvious money reasons? Great reason to support his country, huh?
Back on topic, I guess Axl didn't need to related the lyrics with any war at the time. I've always thought Civil War was about the wars and violence and how innocent people (young soldiers too) have to die in a battlefield for an unknow reason...

Considering Panama declared war on us I would say your wrong.  I can give a shit about Michael Moore.  Ill really check into his movie so he can say we knew 9/11 was going to happen and we did nothing.  Axl is a patriot.  And that is very good in my book.

[Scottyl333]

My mistake it was an undeclared war.  I just remember Norega being on T.V. yelling about how he was going to give "yankee pigs".  I guess we showed him.

[volcano62]

But what would explain Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11? Blind adherence to leftist ideology? Black helicopters? A little too much weed?

Or maybe some truth with facts.  
Anyways, it's not GNR and we shouldn't talk about this in this thread anymore.  

To get back to GN'R, I'm glad Axl isn't as gullible as the Dixie Chicks to believe people, like Mr. Moore, who stage parts of their "documentaries" and combine facts, half truths, and outright lies to make up contrived arguments that appeal to idealistic people, like college students, who are naive enough to pay him their money to hear him speak his lies and to watch his fallacious movies.

I do like Moore as a capitalist though. He is very good at self promotion. There's a lot to be learned form his marketing skills if you want to make a lot of $$$. Maybe Axl should hire him to promote Chinese Democracy.  Change the name to American Communism and we have a hit on every college campus. It will probably break all sales records in France too

If Guns N' Roses would make an album called American Communism it would create outrage but get tremendous publicity!! Hmmmmm a little too crazy even for Axl Rose but I like it!

[metallex78]

I dont know why they wrote this song..but god is it ever amazing...i love the performance of this song from Paris 92...Axl sounds great and does awsome moves.. but ya this is an awosme song

I agree,i think this song is guns at their peak,amazing song. The version of Paris 92 is incredible,,in the last first when Axl screams civil warrrrrsssssssssss and then Slash rips into that amazing riff is my best memory of GNR live. They are an absolute awesome combination those two guys

Yeah Paris '92 is fucking awesome. The whole band sounds so tight on that Civil war performance. I have the video of that from Kazaa, but is the whole concert available anywhere else???

[Voodoochild]

But what would explain Michael Moore's Fahrenheit 9/11? Blind adherence to leftist ideology? Black helicopters? A little too much weed?

Or maybe some truth with facts.  
Anyways, it's not GNR and we shouldn't talk about this in this thread anymore.  

To get back to GN'R, I'm glad Axl isn't as gullible as the Dixie Chicks to believe people, like Mr. Moore, who stage parts of their "documentaries" and combine facts, half truths, and outright lies to make up contrived arguments that appeal to idealistic people, like college students, who are naive enough to pay him their money to hear him speak his lies and to watch his fallacious movies.

I do like Moore as a capitalist though. He is very good at self promotion. There's a lot to be learned form his marketing skills if you want to make a lot of $$$. Maybe Axl should hire him to promote Chinese Democracy.  Change the name to American Communism and we have a hit on every college campus. It will probably break all sales records in France too

Oh my god, did you actually said "believe people"? Are you still believing that Iraq have chemical weapons? LOL!!   You can rip Moore downloading his movie in Kazaa or something, you don't have to pay him money. Oh, and the "idealistic people" and "college students" gave him the Cannes award. Tarantino was in the judge. And, as far as I know, he's not french at all.  
You should look at some Madagascar quotes... Casualities of War, with M.J. Fox, works pretty well now - and it's about Vietnam.  You should try Full Metal Jacket too
If Axl would ever play this song (Civil War, BTW) again, he should make a big rant about how the world had not changed at all since '91. It's even worse...  

[slashedguns]

I dont know why they wrote this song..but god is it ever amazing...i love the performance of this song from Paris 92...Axl sounds great and does awsome moves.. but ya this is an awosme song

I agree,i think this song is guns at their peak,amazing song. The version of Paris 92 is incredible,,in the last first when Axl screams civil warrrrrsssssssssss and then Slash rips into that amazing riff is my best memory of GNR live. They are an absolute awesome combination those two guys

Yeah Paris '92 is fucking awesome. The whole band sounds so tight on that Civil war performance. I have the video of that from Kazaa, but is the whole concert available anywhere else???

The paris 92 show is readily available thru the dvd traders who advertise in the "Appetite for collection" section of the message board.Thats where i got it from,the whole show is really good

[MadmanDan]

George Harrison's wife was organizing a romanian orphans album. George phoned Axl and asked them to put something forward. Slash wrote the music (izzy didn't write or play on it). Axl then added lyrics, which arose from the fact that many of the orphans came from civil wars in eastern europe.

I'm fairly sure it was written before the gulf war began.

Dude.someone got their facts wrong. There was no civil war in Romania,just a revolution in 1989. I should know,I live there The only civil war in Eastern Europe was in Yugoslavia,but that started in 92. And the place ain't crawling with orphans either!!!

What is a violent revolution (which it was in Romania) if not a civil war?

Either way, I doubt Axl was writing about the revolution/civil war in Romania, cuz anyone criticizing the civil war in Romania and claiming that it 'benefitted the rich while it buried the poor' is fucking moron and has no clue about what was going on. Removing Ceaucesco's communist regime is about as worthy a reason for fighting a war as you can possible have. It got rid of a Marxist regime that was looting the poor to sustain the lavish habits of a few. It shows that war does not always feed the rich while burying the poor. Even though the casualties are always high, war can also serve a noble purpose.

It's a whole different issue about the definition of a civil war. He definetly wasn't talking about Eastern European conflicts,cause everything he sais in the "I don't need you civil war..." part is the exact opposite of a normal man's opinion.
   These things are very personal for me cause most people think my country is a fuckin hell hole millions of miles away from civilisation. Romania is a really cool place,with nice people( except for politicians )

[POPmetal]

Oh my god, did you actually said "believe people"? Are you still believing that Iraq have chemical weapons? LOL!!   You can rip Moore downloading his movie in Kazaa or something, you don't have to pay him money. Oh, and the "idealistic people" and "college students" gave him the Cannes award. Tarantino was in the judge. And, as far as I know, he's not french at all.  

Weren't you the one concerned about staying on topic a few posts back? Why are you bringing up chemical weapons now? I never said I believed anything about chemical weapons in Iraq  (even though an artillery shell containing serin gas was recently used against the US troops in Iraq). I never said anything about Moore getting a Cannes award either. Though I'm sure a lot of the judges who vote at Cannes are idealistic fools.

You should look at some Madagascar quotes... Casualities of War, with M.J. Fox, works pretty well now - and it's about Vietnam.  You should try Full Metal Jacket too
If Axl would ever play this song (Civil War, BTW) again, he should make a big rant about how the world had not changed at all since '91. It's even worse...  

I'll look at them, but I don't form my beliefs by watching hollywood movies.