Trent tells Finck "F*ck you"

[chineseblues]

But that's not my point, my point would be that of all the things said about him, I've never heard anyone claim that Jordy was a serious, dedicated musician.

I've never heard anything contrary to Geordie being anything but the consumate professional.  His employment w/Manson, Maynard and now Reznor would lead me to believe he's quite talented.  By the way, I've never heard anyone "claim that Robin was a serious, dedicated musician."  Much to the contrary according to Reznor.

As such, I have to doubt the accuracy of Reznor's own judgment in condemning Robin for what Trent percieves to be some form of "selling out" while at the same time employing a bassist known for everything other than his ability as a musician.   

Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

the musical directoer of cirque de soliel isnt a creative force?

[the dirt]

the musical directoer of cirque de soliel isnt a creative force?

The musical director(?) of CdS may be a creative force, I don't know.

Robin was just a guitar player for them. Finck was not the musical director for the circus.

[estranged.1098]

Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

He is with Guns N' Roses. Yes, the album is not out blah blah blah... but you can't deny it.

[chineseblues]

the musical directoer of cirque de soliel isnt a creative force?

The musical director(?) of CdS may be a creative force, I don't know.

Robin was just a guitar player for them. Finck was not the musical director for the circus.

hmm strange I know I read somewhere that he was the misical director for them 

[the dirt]

Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

He is with Guns N' Roses. Yes, the album is not out blah blah blah... but you can't deny it.

You can't prove it.

Remember when (I think it was) Tommy heard some tracks he worked on a while before and didn't even recognize them when he heard them again? Believe that Axl knows what he wants the mass of music to sound like (wheather the sound changes daily or monthly, whatever) and he'll fuck around himself in the studio with the material until the final product is what HE likes. This means he could render tracks close to unrecognizable to what the musicians contributed in the fist place.

[HK-47]

Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

Robin could be characterized as any number of things, I'm not holding him up as a paragon of musical virtue but pointing out the hypocrisy in Trent's blatherings. Besides which, I think the case could be made, very reasonably, that Reznor & Pogo were largely responsible Manson's sound on AS, and that John5 was the primary creative force in that band from the moment he arrived. So while Twiggy was a contributor to Manson's output he was hardly the driving force behind the sonic landscape of 'Antichrist. . . ' nor the pulsating riffs of the later albums, so what exactly was his contribution to the band, other than the occassional guitar part?

[Falcon]

Robin could be characterized the same way as you perceive Geordie, except Geordie has been a vital part and contributor to a major act such as Manson while Robin has never been a creative force in any
of his professional relationships.

He is with Guns N' Roses. Yes, the album is not out blah blah blah... but you can't deny it.

I didn't say I characterized Robin that way, I said he "could be" characterized that way. ?

For the record, Robin's involvement brought me back to GNR, I've always dug his playing and stage presence. ?He brings a certain element of "cool" that this version of Axl's orchestra sorely needs.

However, I am a realist. ?

The fact remains he's never written one memorable note in his life.

[Falcon]

Robin could be characterized as any number of things, I'm not holding him up as a paragon of musical virtue but pointing out the hypocrisy in Trent's blatherings.

I see absolutely no hypocrisy in Trent's "blatherings".?

He sees Robin as a opportunist, getting paid to do nothing.

Obviously this is Trent's problem, not mine nor yours.?

But...

It's also obvious he feels strongly about this, he believes it to be true.? He's not shy about mentioning it and doesn't care who hears it.

[D]

The core of Guns N'Roses is Axl+Slash. Read to a 1993 Axl's interview, he agrees with that : Axl+Slash=GN'R.

The other members had their part (specially Izzy, of course), but the band could continue without them.
But, without Slash or without Axl (of course) it is impossible to make GN'R, as everyone can see.



Concerning Finck's contribution : some concerts like RIR and 2002 disaster tour. That's it.

I did a thread where i broke down the writing credits and Izzy has almost double the writing credits of slash

so Its way more than just Slash and Axl

[estranged.1098]

You can't prove it.

Remember when (I think it was) Tommy heard some tracks he worked on a while before and didn't even recognize them when he heard them again? Believe that Axl knows what he wants the mass of music to sound like (wheather the sound changes daily or monthly, whatever) and he'll fuck around himself in the studio with the material until the final product is what HE likes. This means he could render tracks close to unrecognizable to what the musicians contributed in the fist place.

I can't prove what exactly?

I don't think Tommy ever said he didn't recognize them. Tommy worked on a LOT of music, and he said he was impressed when he heard some of them again after a long time. Also, the music was probably in a more completed state than what he worked on. It seems to me you're putting words in his mouth to make a point.

[Eternal Flaming Sword of Death...]

Fact is, Reznor is mad cause Finck jumped on the Axl train, because Reznor was too scared to let someone else record with him.

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

Axl is incredibly mental, but musically I don't think he is stupid, we just have never heard Robin's playing, only on other people's material. I am looking forward to hearing his material, I think it will be highly original, and surprising to alot of you, too

[Falcon]

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

It goes to show Axl chose someone with no record of creative input to replace a player whose written some of the most memorable riffs of all time.

Now who's the dummy?

[the dirt]

I can't prove what exactly?

Prove that he is an invaluable creative source. You said he is with GNR.

I don't think Tommy ever said he didn't recognize them.

It may not have been tommy, but someone in the band right now. Not Dizzy . Maybe Brain. Too bad I don't have the quote on hand. I don't know if he said it writh a wry look on his face, but come on

Tommy worked on a LOT of music, and he said he was impressed when he heard some of them again after a long time.

He's a musician. I would hope he's worked on a lot.

Also, the music was probably in a more completed state than what he worked on. It seems to me you're putting words in his mouth to make a point.

If i were in a band and had been working on an album for 6 years and not be able to recognize what I actually did on these tracks in year 5, I'd qustion my woth to the unit, in a way.

And who's responsible for the more complete versions? Fortus? PITTS?

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

the wheels are in motion...

He wanted to control the way the sound of the band evolved, and progressed. That's why he managed to get rid of his whole band. He had a vision.

Axl is incredibly mental, but musically I don't think he is stupid, we just have never heard Robin's playing, only on other people's material. I am looking forward to hearing his material, I think it will be highly original, and surprising to alot of you, too

This is axl's material and robin fit more with what he's looking for.

[RichardNixon]

Back to Finck's playing---listen to NIN live album, Finck's a solid player.

[Nytunz]

Back to Finck's playing---listen to NIN live album, Finck's a solid player.

He sure is! I saw the NIN Live DVD! Robin was great!

[jarmo]

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

It goes to show Axl chose someone with no record of creative input to replace a player whose written some of the most memorable riffs of all time.

Now who's the dummy?

They replaced Izzy (who wrote a lot of GN'R songs) with Gilby and Steven was replaced by Matt (who hadn't recorded with The Cult at the time). What's the problem?

I guess Axl saw Robin play and wanted him in the band. Pretty basic.




/jarmo

[ppbebe]

  He sure is! I hear Robin all over the "just an early demo" IRS.  Robinish Dada! It works so well.

I mean, Axl is no dummy, he chose Robin to replace Slash, even before Slash was gone, so it goes to show....

It goes to show Axl chose someone with no record of creative input to replace a player whose written some of the most memorable riffs of all time.

Now who's the dummy?

BH.

[Falcon]

They replaced Izzy (who wrote a lot of GN'R songs) with Gilby and Steven was replaced by Matt (who hadn't recorded with The Cult at the time). What's the problem?

And look at Axl's production since Izzy left, hardly plolific.

As for Matt, did he have much if any creative input in GNR?? I'd always heard he came in and played Steve's parts.

I guess Axl saw Robin play and wanted him in the band. Pretty basic.

Could be, or was it his fixation/fascination with all things NIN that made him seek Robin out?

As I've said, I dig Robin.? Loved his playing with Trent and dug it with GNR in '02.?  I hope he turns out to be creative gold with Axl.

With that in mind, and trying to objective about his inclusion in GNR, even the most ardent Axl -ite must admit this looks like a deliberate reach at getting a player from a band Axl was infatuated with.

[jarmo]

Could be, or was it his fixation/fascination with all things NIN that made him seek Robin out?

Finck is no stranger to the circus - Matt Sorum found him playing with Cirque Du Soleil. "I told Axl to see him and he said, 'That's our guitar player,"' says Sorum. "I said, 'Bring in Robin to play alongside Slash,' but Axl said, 'I want him to play lead."'

Spin magazine, July 1999




/jarmo

[Falcon]

Could be, or was it his fixation/fascination with all things NIN that made him seek Robin out?

Finck is no stranger to the circus - Matt Sorum found him playing with Cirque Du Soleil. "I told Axl to see him and he said, 'That's our guitar player,"' says Sorum. "I said, 'Bring in Robin to play alongside Slash,' but Axl said, 'I want him to play lead."'

Spin magazine, July 1999




/jarmo

Understood.

However, I find it extremely hard to beleive Axl (or Matt for that matter) had no prior knowledge of Robin's involvement in NIN. 

I seriously doubt they stumbled upon him at the circus.