Ban On Politics

[Mal Brossard]

This was discussed before.

People who made racist comments were called racists. Then those people got upset because they were called on it.

You took what I was going to say.

If the shoe fits...

Don't like being called a racist?  Then don't make racist comments.  It's not that hard.

[Surfrider]

With all due respect, I believe that part of the problem was that there was selective moderating.? I think it is pretty much indisputable that most of the moderators lean to the left.? For example, if someone says something insensitive about muslims or a loony liberal, they will be quickly admonished.? Yet, if someone is called racist or a biggot, these insults were often left alone.? I also believe that there are buddy-buddy relationships between the moderators and certain posters.? In my opinion, this led to inconsistent moderating and banning, which in turn led some of the right-wingers to bitch and moan.? If there was consistent moderating of everyone, regardless of viewpoint, I believe that many of the problems would have gone away.

Soooooo very, very true.

This was discussed before.

People who made racist comments were called racists. Then those people got upset because they were called on it.

Sand Nigger, towelheads etc.

The Katrina thread also brought the racists out too.

Crying about "left leaning" mods is not being realistic when it comes to that. Most people are not racist and find that type of talk repulsive.

I think you misunderstood my point.? I definately think that people should be called out on racist comments.? Yet, those on the left, including yourself, have made just as offensive comments against Christians with little comment by any of the moderators.? In fact, when someone that the mods usually disagree with make such comments, they are quick to condemn that individual.? ? On the other hand, when left wingers call someone on the right a Nazi or make derogatory comments against Christians, these comments are usually left alone.? It usually takes someone to call out such comments before they are commented upon by a moderator, and at that time, the moderator also condemns the recipient of those comments.? With all due respect, I have seen you, SLC,? make as many insults or offensive comments as anyone on the right that has been banned.? Can you tell me one person from the left that has been banned from this board?  I belive the fact that you have never been banned, let alone hardly admonished, demonstrates that there is merit to my argument.  Personally, I think it is just as offensive, and loony, to make comments such as that the US inflicted 911 upon itself as it is to make comments about bombing or nuking Muslims.?

I think either you leave all comments, or be consistent and moderate both sides evenly.? I see one side constantly being condemned and called out for their comments, but not the other side.

Again, this is just one man's opinion.?

[Brody]

right on..

[SLCPUNK]

Yet, those on the left, including yourself, have made just as offensive comments against Christians with little comment by any of the moderators.  In fact, when someone that the mods usually disagree with make such comments, they are quick to condemn that individual.    On the other hand, when left wingers call someone on the right a Nazi or make derogatory comments against Christians, these comments are usually left alone.  It usually takes someone to call out such comments before they are commented upon by a moderator, and at that time, the moderator also condemns the recipient of those comments.

I don't recall attacking Christians in general. I do not like any organized religion and find Christianity full of half truths, and never ending hypocrisy, just like all the others.

With all due respect, I have seen you, SLC,  make as many insults or offensive comments as anyone on the right that has been banned.

Well of course I have to disagree with you.

Can you tell me one person from the left that has been banned from this board?  I belive the fact that you have never been banned, let alone hardly admonished, demonstrates that there is merit to my argument.

But you are wrong. I have been told to calm down. On the board, and via pms from Mods, including Jarmo. So have other left wing posters. This has also been discussed before.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Who was banned on the right and what for? Tyrod was banned for racial slurs. Holy War, Popmetal were for insults/slurs etc as well. You guys redefine what is good and bad as the wind blows. So it is difficult for me to accept your opinion that my frowning on organized religion (including but not limited to Christianity) is the same as calling somebody a smelly sand nigger. Maybe instead of pretending to be the victim(s) the neocons on this board should learn to be a little more honest and admit that maybe their buddies were banned for pushing it just a little too far.


Which also is another good point. The point being that when Jarmo (or any other mod) would step in and say "cool it" those posters (who were banned) would then confront the Mod. They would escalate the situation, accuse them of the same thing you are, causing their own demise. When I was warned to cool it, I would either A) Cool it or B) Cool it and offer an apology to the board via a pm. But not those guys who got banned. It was always the same thing with them. I think a little honesty is in order. But if it is easier to play the victim, then so be it.

Personally, I think it is just as offensive, and loony, to make comments such as that the US inflicted 911 upon itself as it is to make comments about bombing or nuking Muslims. 

And that is just it: Personally and "I think." This does not mean everybody finds it as offensive to have a different opinion. In the greater scheme of things your view is the minority. It is a tough pill to swallow and I know you hate to hear it. But most people around the globe are more apt to take in a different opinion on our affairs in the middle east. This is not offensive, it is merely a different opinion. Comparing a alternate political theories to racism is a quite the stretch. I'd like to point out that you could not even make your point just now without throwing in the word "loony", and I bet you didn't even realize you did it.

[the dirt]

Who was banned on the right and what for?

You were banned most recently as far as I can remember........

But you sit on the left side of ....... things.

[Surfrider]

I don't wish to get into a political discussion regarding the merit of certain viewpoints in this thread.? To take this discussion down that road just confirms my original post that moderating is done selectively and the merit of opinions is determined by how many people support it.? In fact, your post demonstrates how, in my opinion, posts from those on the right are viewed.?

Read your post, you refer to Christinaity as hypocritical and half-truths.? Yet, I believe you, and a few others, have stated that they believe the United States inflicted 911 upon itself.? If you don't see the glaring hypocrisy in this, then I don't think I will ever be able to convince you of anything.? You also state that my opinion, or the opinions of those on the right, are in the "minority."? I don't know if you realize it, but this is precisely the problem.? You are arguing that the merit of certain arguments justifies the difference in treatment between viewpoints.? This is exactly what I believe most moderators believe as well.? Even assuming, arguendo, this is correct, it is precisely the fact that some arguments are deemed to lack merit because they are in the minority that these arguments are treated differently in these threads.  This, in turn, creates many of the problems in these threads.?

Yet, those on the left, including yourself, have made just as offensive comments against Christians with little comment by any of the moderators.? In fact, when someone that the mods usually disagree with make such comments, they are quick to condemn that individual.? ? On the other hand, when left wingers call someone on the right a Nazi or make derogatory comments against Christians, these comments are usually left alone.? It usually takes someone to call out such comments before they are commented upon by a moderator, and at that time, the moderator also condemns the recipient of those comments.

I don't recall attacking Christians in general. I do not like any organized religion and find Christianity full of half truths, and never ending hypocrisy, just like all the others.

Oh jeez.? Do you even realize that you are attacking Christians while you are stating that you don't recall attacking Christians?

With all due respect, I have seen you, SLC,? make as many insults or offensive comments as anyone on the right that has been banned.

Well of course I have to disagree with you.

I am sure you do.

Can you tell me one person from the left that has been banned from this board?? I belive the fact that you have never been banned, let alone hardly admonished, demonstrates that there is merit to my argument.

But you are wrong. I have been told to calm down. On the board, and via pms from Mods, including Jarmo. So have other left wing posters. This has also been discussed before.

Well, of course, I am not privy to your private PMs with the Mods.? I can only discuss what I have witnessed in individual threads.? However, assuming these PMs do take place, it is unfair to reprimand some privately and others publicly.

I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Who was banned on the right and what for? Tyrod was banned for racial slurs. Holy War, Popmetal were for insults/slurs etc as well.

Beyond these two, I always see those on the right reprimanded.? I seem to remember Popmetal being banned for responding to the moderators, not for his individual comments.? Yet, I remember, in my opinion, he was constantly treated unfairly on this board.? ?

You guys redefine what is good and bad as the wind blows. So it is difficult for me to accept your opinion that my frowning on organized religion (including but not limited to Christianity) is the same as calling somebody a smelly sand nigger. Maybe instead of pretending to be the victim(s) the neocons on this board should learn to be a little more honest and admit that maybe their buddies were banned for pushing it just a little too far.

Personally, your tactics of calling one a racist, a KKK member, or a homophobic with little evidence to back such comments is just as offensive as anything I have seen from individuals on the right.? More importantly, I do hold people's religion on the same level as people's race.? These are both things that people hold near and dear, and you are unlikely to get anywhere by criticizing someone on either of these grounds.? From my experience on this board, the anti-religion comments have destroyed threads just as much as any racial comment.? ?

Which also is another good point. The point being that when Jarmo (or any other mod) would step in and say "cool it" those posters (who were banned) would then confront the Mod. They would escalate the situation, accuse them of the same thing you are, causing their own demise. When I was warned to cool it, I would either A) Cool it or B) Cool it and offer an apology to the board via a pm. But not those guys who got banned. It was always the same thing with them. I think a little honesty is in order. But if it is easier to play the victim, then so be it.

Of course, this point is easily dissected if you believe my argument that the right wing posters are unfairly singled out for their comments, while the liberals are largely left unreprimanded.? As I previously stated, most of the time I have seen a moderator tell you to cool it down is in a situation where you began the altercation and then the rightwinger responded.? In these situations, your original comment should be reprimanded before the rightwinger feels that he/she has to defend themself.

Personally, I think it is just as offensive, and loony, to make comments such as that the US inflicted 911 upon itself as it is to make comments about bombing or nuking Muslims.?

And that is just it: Personally and "I think." This does not mean everybody finds it as offensive to have a different opinion. In the greater scheme of things your view is the minority. It is a tough pill to swallow and I know you hate to hear it. But most people around the globe are more apt to take in a different opinion on our affairs in the middle east. This is not offensive, it is merely a different opinion. Comparing a alternate political theories to racism is a quite the stretch. I'd like to point out that you could not even make your point just now without throwing in the word "loony", and I bet you didn't even realize you did it.

I am not suggesting that my opinion, or the right wing opinion, is the majority on this board.? However, you are again getting into the business of judging the merit of people's arguments.? The "world opinion" that you write about is not the opinion that is being unfairly treated on this board; it is the opinion that challenges that opinion that, in my opinion, is unfairly treated.? Unless you prefer a political discussion- which you may- of like-minded individuals, it should not matter how many people or what people share a certain opinion.? If everyone shared my opinion on this board, I would look to another board to go post.

FYI, my point was strongly made with my argument regarding your 911 theory.? Perhaps you just failed to understand it.? If someone from the right suggests that most muslims are terrorists or that nuking the terrorists is the best strategy to resolve the war on terror, these comments are outside the box and are quickly condemned.? Yet, if you come forward and make an argument that the 911 inflicted 911 upon itself, even though this argument is outside the box and perhaps far more loony to many, people treat you as if you are brilliant.  This is because most on here are from non-US countries or reside on the left side of the political spectrum.? To me, this example epitomizes the problem in these threads.

[Slashead]

Plus, conspiracy theories (about 9/11 for example) and anti-Semitism often go hand in hand.

[nesquick]

Plus, conspiracy theories (about 9/11 for example) and antisemitism often go hand in hand.

Very true. you have a good point.

[Axls Locomotive]

Beyond these two, I always see those on the right reprimanded.  I seem to remember Popmetal being banned for responding to the moderators, not for his individual comments.  Yet, I remember, in my opinion, he was constantly treated unfairly on this board.   

absolutely ridiculous, how did you manage to get an internet connection from your padded cell? and even so, how can you type wearing a straight-jacket?

Oh jeez.  Do you even realize that you are attacking Christians while you are stating that you don't recall attacking Christians?

attacking Christians...really?...is this what you define as attacking someone or something?

one trouble with the world is that people are far too petty and sensitive to criticism or opinion...

[Surfrider]

Beyond these two, I always see those on the right reprimanded.? I seem to remember Popmetal being banned for responding to the moderators, not for his individual comments.? Yet, I remember, in my opinion, he was constantly treated unfairly on this board.? ?

absolutely ridiculous, how did you manage to get an internet connection from your padded cell? and even so, how can you type wearing a straight-jacket?

My point is proven again.? Instead of attacking the merit of my argument, someone that disagrees with me resorts to personal attacks.? This is a constant from certain left leaning members on this board.? Yet, because of reasons, beyond my understanding, you are never called out for it.? Thanks for helping to prove my point.

Oh jeez.? Do you even realize that you are attacking Christians while you are stating that you don't recall attacking Christians?

attacking Christians...really?...is this what you define as attacking someone or something?

one trouble with the world is that people are far too petty and sensitive to criticism or opinion...

Calling something a "half truth" or "hypocrisy" is not an attack?? Read SLC's post.? He tacitly referred to my characterization of his 911 theory as "loony" as an attack.? Would you disagree that this is in the same category?? Something makes me believe that if someone made these same comments regarding Islam or Muslims he/she would be strongly condemned instead of supported.  ?

I also think you missed my point.? I am not arguing that SLC shouldn't be able to make such arguments about Christians, nor am I arguing that SLC shouldn't be able to compare Bush and Hitler or set forth any 911 theory that he has.? I am simply stating that either all comments of the same level should be left on the board, or comments of the same category and offensiveness should all be condemned.? It is the selective moderating and condemnation that creates many of the problems.? Again, this is just one man's opinion.?

This discussion reminds of a United States Supreme Court case called R.AV. v. St. Paul.? There, the Supreme Court was considering an ordinance passed by the local city council that made it a crime to display a symbol which "arouses anger, alarm or resentment in others on the basis of race, color, creed, religion or gender."? The Supreme Court reversed a conviction under the statute and called the statute unconstitutional.? The justices held the ordinance invalid on its face because "it prohibits otherwise permitted speech solely on the basis of the subjects the speech addresses." The First Amendment prevents government from punishing speech and expressive conduct because it disapproves of the ideas expressed. Under the ordinance, for example, one could hold up a sign declaring all anti-semites are motherfuckers but not that all Jews are motherfuckers. Government has no authority "to license one side of a debate to fight freestyle, while requiring the other to follow the Marquis of Queensbury Rules."

[Axls Locomotive]

absolutely ridiculous, how did you manage to get an internet connection from your padded cell? and even so, how can you type wearing a straight-jacket?

My point is proven again.  Instead of attacking the merit of my argument, someone that disagrees with me resorts to personal attacks.  This is a constant from certain left leaning members on this board.  Yet, because of reasons, beyond my understanding, you are never called out for it.  Thanks for helping to prove my point.

personal attacks?? it was a joke dude...also proves my point...oversensitive...any Glaswegian told that joke would have made a jibe right back at me, its called banter...someone has extracted your sense of humour

as for your comments, this place isnt a court of law, nor does any moderator have the ability to sit down and discuss with other moderators every single post judging whether it breaks the rules or not...nor does any moderator have this all seeing ability to make the absolutely correct decision within a 5 minute period...you compare this bias to a court case which im sure lasted many weeks with the involvement of many learned individuals...dont you see how ridiculous that is to compare it to the rules and conduct of a GNR Forum?...also you would find far more insensitive comments on other less liked and moderated GNR forums...maybe if you are on some righteous trip you could start with the people that need your expertise most

[Mal Brossard]

Plus, conspiracy theories (about 9/11 for example) and anti-Semitism often go hand in hand.

Not true.? 9/11 theories are linked with anti-Zionism occasionally, but NOT anti-Semitism.? Two very different things there.? I am an anti-Zionist (anti-Israel), but I am by no means anti-Semite (anti-Jew).

There are Semitic people out there who are openly anti-Zionist (however, you won't find many openly anti-Semitic Zionists).

[Brody]

Beyond these two, I always see those on the right reprimanded.  I seem to remember Popmetal being banned for responding to the moderators, not for his individual comments.  Yet, I remember, in my opinion, he was constantly treated unfairly on this board.   

absolutely ridiculous, how did you manage to get an internet connection from your padded cell? and even so, how can you type wearing a straight-jacket?

Oh jeez.  Do you even realize that you are attacking Christians while you are stating that you don't recall attacking Christians?

attacking Christians...really?...is this what you define as attacking someone or something?

one trouble with the world is that people are far too petty and sensitive to criticism or opinion...

Dont dare criticize a liberal.. they freak out over petty things such as "In God We Trust" Or the Pledge of Allegiance, National Anthem and what not.. so as far as complaining about petty things I pretty sure the liberals have the NeoCons beat on that one 

[Axls Locomotive]

Dont dare criticize a liberal.. they freak out over petty things such as "In God We Trust" Or the Pledge of Allegiance, National Anthem and what not.. so as far as complaining about petty things I pretty sure the liberals have the NeoCons beat on that one 

liberal conservative liberal conservative black white left right up down stop start..is there no middle where you are boy? you obviously dont know me, you havent even got my nationality correct...besides, arent you off topic?

[Brody]

 your nationality? what are you talking about..

[Communist China]

I think the way this thread has gone is a good example of why we can't have political discussions here.

[Mal Brossard]

I think the way this thread has gone is a good example of why we can't have political discussions here.

But let's not forget, no one has made an effort to control the flow of discussion away from insults in this thread either.

[SLCPUNK]

 With all due respect, I have seen you, SLC,  make as many insults or offensive comments as anyone on the right that has been banned.

Nah.......there is no respect. You don't have to pretend.

Well, of course, I am not privy to your private PMs with the Mods.  I can only discuss what I have witnessed in individual threads.  However, assuming these PMs do take place, it is unfair to reprimand some privately and others publicly.

This is a good example of you downright ignoring what was just said to you. I said on the board on via pms. Then you turned around and said it was unfair that I was not reprimanded on the board like everybody else. I'm sure you are well aware of this though. I just didn't want to let you think you snuck it past me.

FYI, my point was strongly made with my argument regarding your 911 theory.  Perhaps you just failed to understand it.  If someone from the right suggests that most muslims are terrorists or that nuking the terrorists is the best strategy to resolve the war on terror, these comments are outside the box and are quickly condemned.

Strawman..........boring.

Yet, if you come forward and make an argument that the 911 inflicted 911 upon itself, even though this argument is outside the box and perhaps far more loony to many, people treat you as if you are brilliant.  This is because most on here are from non-US countries or reside on the left side of the political spectrum.  To me, this example epitomizes the problem in these threads.

Nobody treats me as "brilliant" first of all. Second is that I have always remained up in the air about the exact cause of 9-11. Although I do feel there is more than enough evidence that can not be ignored. I really don't care to talk about my views in this thread. Mainly because I have already made them clear, and you do what you always do: misrepresent them, so you can attack them. It is beyond boring at this point.

Honestly dude, I don't really care too much about this. They are not going to come back, so why be upset about it any longer? If you feel you were slighted, then so be it.  Add it to the same column under liberal professors, and liberal media.

[Slashead]

Plus, conspiracy theories (about 9/11 for example) and anti-Semitism often go hand in hand.

Not true.? 9/11 theories are linked with anti-Zionism occasionally, but NOT anti-Semitism.? Two very different things there.? I am an anti-Zionist (anti-Israel), but I am by no means anti-Semite (anti-Jew).

There are Semitic people out there who are openly anti-Zionist (however, you won't find many openly anti-Semitic Zionists).

If you are anti-Zionist or anti-Israel, then you are clearly a racist and an anti-Semite. It means you are against the existence of a State for the Jews.
It is alright to be against the government of Israel and its decisions, but being against Israel in general is anti-Semitism.

Anti-Zionism is the politically correct and modern version of anti-Semitism.

[pilferk]

Berkley,

Do you really think floating a political conspiracy theory is akin to racism?

Or that saying you're an agnostic (or athiest...not sure of SLC's particular belief) is akin to calling someone a sand nigger?

Or that explaining, in the course of a discussion, your particular viewpoint on organized religion is roughly the same as calling someone a towelhead?

Really?

The fact that you say you find those things offensive I find a bit...I don't know....hard to believe.? What were "WMD's in Iraq" if not a political conspiracy theory?? Why should Christians be the only ones allowed to discuss their particular ideology?

 I just don't get the hypocrisy of your argument.

Most of those on "the right" that were banned were banned because they made racist or gay-bashing remarks/posts.? How you can equate someone saying "I don't believe in Christianity" (lots of people don't, btw) to something like "Jarmo is a Nazi" or "The towelheads blah blah blah".......I just don't see it.