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Author Topic: Blogger arrested, accused of posting 9 unreleased Guns N' Roses songs  (Read 176308 times)
slashsbaconpit
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If it opens your eyes ...


« Reply #600 on: August 30, 2008, 02:32:59 PM »

I also know Jarmo would get on the ball and tell me how unjustified I am in being frustrated. Typical.


There goes all your theories of how I'm trying to stop you from being frustrated and how I try to control your feelings.



/jarmo

Now you just sound like you're trying to sound like a bad imitation of Axl.  All I'm saying is that it's been frustrating to be teased with this for years. That's my point. Axl is the one who has teased us. Had he "kept his mouth shut," there wouldn't have been any hype, any expectation or any anything with this project.

And you keep looking over the most important part of my posts. I'm not being negative, I'm saying all of these feelings will likely go away once the album is released.

And by the way, if I want to feel frustrated, angry, betrayed, misled or anything else, guess what? It's a free world, I can if I want.  Tongue


Anyway, back to the topic at hand. I did have a thought about these leaks. While I'm not going to judge the people who downloaded them, because people are curious, I do think that those who leaked them did the fans a disservice in the long run. I mean, who knows when or if this will ever be released? People are still excited for it. But,you see, the folks that have them have probably listened to them extensively. I mean, you can only listen to AFD so many times before you put something else in your I-pod.

So now when the album comes out, it's going to be like "oh, yeah, I've heard that song 32,000 times, what's next." People won't get the whole fun of discovery in playing the whole album front to back.

It's a catch 22 for fans. Either download the lower quality leaks now while you can and cheat yourself out of the fun of the album, or take the chance of never hearing the songs at all.
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slashsbaconpit
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« Reply #601 on: August 30, 2008, 02:37:40 PM »




A better comparison would be if you feel frustrated because your friend tells you he/she hopes to come visit you next summer and he doesn't make it.....
/jarmo
I would vilify and speak ill of that friend till the end of time. 

I don't believe I've ever vilified Axl. But the dude is human. If you ever get the chance to ask him, he'll tell you. He makes mistakes just like you and me.
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« Reply #602 on: August 30, 2008, 02:42:44 PM »




A better comparison would be if you feel frustrated because your friend tells you he/she hopes to come visit you next summer and he doesn't make it.....
/jarmo
I would vilify and speak ill of that friend till the end of time. 

I don't believe I've ever vilified Axl. But the dude is human. If you ever get the chance to ask him, he'll tell you. He makes mistakes just like you and me.
I wasn't necessarily speaking about you.  You've actually brought up some valid points, and I appreciate your stance on dropping the frustrations once the album comes out.  I just wish that was the case all around.  I know you say you think it will, but I just don't see it that way.  Not just the people on this board, the media members in general are never going to forgive Axl for not doing whatever it is they thought he should do, which is something different for everyone.
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« Reply #603 on: August 30, 2008, 02:58:01 PM »

Axl is the one who has teased us. Had he "kept his mouth shut," there wouldn't have been any hype, any expectation or any anything with this project.

This would be you in that case: Where are the updates? I'm so frustrated because Axl doesn't say a word!  Cry

 hihi



And by the way, if I want to feel frustrated, angry, betrayed, misled or anything else, guess what? It's a free world, I can if I want.  Tongue

Of course, but I can also tell you to go post about it somewhere where I don't need to read it daily.  ok




/jarmo
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« Reply #604 on: August 30, 2008, 07:45:05 PM »



It's his music and decision.

/jarmo

So is this the genaral understanding on this board, that GN'R is now Axl's solo project - or do some of you feel that GN'R is still a band?
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« Reply #605 on: August 30, 2008, 07:54:05 PM »



It's his music and decision.

/jarmo

So is this the genaral understanding on this board, that GN'R is now Axl's solo project - or do some of you feel that GN'R is still a band?


It's a band. Not a solo project.

But considering Axl's been there since day one.....




/jarmo
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« Reply #606 on: August 30, 2008, 09:03:03 PM »


And by the way, if I want to feel frustrated, angry, betrayed, misled or anything else, guess what? It's a free world, I can if I want.  Tongue


Yeah, we get it, you're frustrated.  Cheesy

Things are starting to happen now...these are exciting times. ok

On topic:

It is unfortunate, this guy seemed to know what he was doing was wrong but he did it anyway.  Now he is looking for a lawyer to represent him pro bono...it doesn't look like he has had any takers.
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« Reply #607 on: August 30, 2008, 09:13:25 PM »

one thing is sure, bad or good, it's a huge free publicity for guns n'roses.
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« Reply #608 on: August 30, 2008, 10:35:11 PM »

one thing is sure, bad or good, it's a huge free publicity for guns n'roses.



  When the story broke I thought the same thing. However the story seems to have died as quick as it was born. I'm not seeing anything about it anymore. So unless something new develops, I'm afraid that this story is going to have very little effect on sales.
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« Reply #609 on: August 30, 2008, 11:58:18 PM »

one thing is sure, bad or good, it's a huge free publicity for guns n'roses.



  When the story broke I thought the same thing. However the story seems to have died as quick as it was born. I'm not seeing anything about it anymore. So unless something new develops, I'm afraid that this story is going to have very little effect on sales.

Considering that the story broke 3 days ago...there are still quite a few news stories if you do a Google search, most recent 3 hours ago.

With regards to sales...they're not going to need this story.
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« Reply #610 on: August 31, 2008, 03:06:20 AM »

Your web host analogy has one big flaw.
I would be their customer, who paid for a service and expects getting the money's worth.
A better comparison would be if you feel frustrated because your friend tells you he/she hopes to come visit you next summer and he doesn't make it.....
/jarmo
When people travel all around the world to see Guns N' Roses perform they do pay a lot of money and they do expect getting their money's worth so I guess the web host analogy does make sence. If the show doesn't happen the fans have every right to feel frustrated.

However, this has nothing to do with the release of Chinese Democracy or the leaks.

Let's face it people, 99% of us downloaded music. 99% of us would / will do it again. Is it a criminal act? I guess so. Is it theft? Not necessarily. If you bought all the cd's, videos, dvd's, ... you're entitled to download and listen to bootleg albums or demos of these songs since royalties and copyrights were payed.

Let's just turn things round. If you downloaded the songs and do not intend to buy Chinese Democracy, you should delete the tracks. If you do intend to buy it then GN'R aren't out of money and you should be fine.
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chineseblues
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« Reply #611 on: August 31, 2008, 08:23:43 AM »

If you bought all the cd's, videos, dvd's, ... you're entitled to download and listen to bootleg albums or demos of these songs since royalties and copyrights were payed.


No you're not. You only paid for the cds, videos and dvds, nothing else. Those are the only things you are entitled to. Just because you bought a few cds doesn't mean you get whatever else you want for free.
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« Reply #612 on: August 31, 2008, 08:45:52 AM »

The thing is, if you do so you don't harm GN'R in any way. Not financial or otherwise.

You can download almost every show GN'R ever did in the "Appetite For Collection" section of this board. I'm sure the band doesn't mind otherwise Jarmo would have removed them. However, it's illegal to tape a show. It's also illegal to take pictures at most festivals... but we can still post our pictures here right?

The situation changed a lot over the last 10 years. In the 80's and 90's the only way to get live performances was by buying the bootlegs. These were very expensive and the band didn't make any money of them so I guess the situation is better now. We still get the music but without paying the parasites.
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jarmo
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« Reply #613 on: August 31, 2008, 09:25:00 AM »

When people travel all around the world to see Guns N' Roses perform they do pay a lot of money and they do expect getting their money's worth so I guess the web host analogy does make sence. If the show doesn't happen the fans have every right to feel frustrated.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/board/index.php?topic=52967.msg1097283#msg1097283

If you read my post, you wouldn't be arguing about it.  Smiley





/jarmo
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chineseblues
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« Reply #614 on: August 31, 2008, 01:28:55 PM »

The thing is, if you do so you don't harm GN'R in any way. Not financial or otherwise.

You can download almost every show GN'R ever did in the "Appetite For Collection" section of this board. I'm sure the band doesn't mind otherwise Jarmo would have removed them. However, it's illegal to tape a show. It's also illegal to take pictures at most festivals... but we can still post our pictures here right?

The situation changed a lot over the last 10 years. In the 80's and 90's the only way to get live performances was by buying the bootlegs. These were very expensive and the band didn't make any money of them so I guess the situation is better now. We still get the music but without paying the parasites.

That is completely different then what we are talking about here. A bootleg of a live show is completely different to demo songs of an unreleased album.
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« Reply #615 on: August 31, 2008, 01:41:11 PM »

The thing is, if you do so you don't harm GN'R in any way. Not financial or otherwise.

You can download almost every show GN'R ever did in the "Appetite For Collection" section of this board. I'm sure the band doesn't mind otherwise Jarmo would have removed them. However, it's illegal to tape a show. It's also illegal to take pictures at most festivals... but we can still post our pictures here right?

The situation changed a lot over the last 10 years. In the 80's and 90's the only way to get live performances was by buying the bootlegs. These were very expensive and the band didn't make any money of them so I guess the situation is better now. We still get the music but without paying the parasites.

That is completely different then what we are talking about here. A bootleg of a live show is completely different to demo songs of an unreleased album.

If I remember Axl didn't really care about the bootlegs he said, I think it was the show were he was pissed off about certain people complaining about the setlist.
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« Reply #616 on: August 31, 2008, 03:02:15 PM »

one thing is sure, bad or good, it's a huge free publicity for guns n'roses.



  When the story broke I thought the same thing. However the story seems to have died as quick as it was born. I'm not seeing anything about it anymore. So unless something new develops, I'm afraid that this story is going to have very little effect on sales.

it's always a good thing for sales to let no-hardcore-fans know guns is alive and will have a single out soon...
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« Reply #617 on: August 31, 2008, 06:18:01 PM »

From the WLF law firm's weblog of legal news....

The Copyright Wars Have Gone Criminal

The FBI arrested a Los Angeles blogger for posting nine songs from Guns ?n Roses upcoming and long-delayed album, Chinese Democracy, on his blog, Antiquet.  The album has been ten years in the making and still has an undetermined release.  The blogger, Kevin Cogill, a.k.a Skwerl (pronounced "squirrel"), appeared handcuffed and in his pajamas behind a glassed-in panel at the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California on Wednesday to answer charges of criminal copyright infringement.

Initially jailed, he is now free on a $10,000 signature bond and restricted to the confines of the Central District.  Surprisingly, his access to the internet was not restricted, presumably because he voluntarily complied with the law in taking down the songs posted earlier.

The Complaint in U.S. v. Cogill has not yet been posted on the Court's website.

Skwerl's blog Antiquet reviews music, and according to the site, the FBI had been discussing the song postings with him for some time.  He readily admits he posted the nine songs, which were later taken down.

He is now seeking a copyright criminal defense lawyer, if there is such a thing.

In addition to this law firm, I can think of only three or four other local firms that have copyright and criminal law experience, so it may be quite unlikely he'll find one willing to represent him.  He was represented by public defender Anthony Eaglin at the hearing, and Skwerl is scheduled to appear next on September 17 at 4:30 p.m. and be arraigned on September 22 at 8:30 a.m. at 255 East Temple Street, Third Floor, in Los Angeles before a criminal duty judge.

Even if he got a lawyer, with the admission he posted on his blog, the best that's going to happen to him is a plea bargain.  Otherwise, it's jail time and a fine.  The penalties for criminal infringement are determined by its extent:  if the infringer has made in any 180-day period ten or more copies of one or more copyrighted works with a total retail value of $2,500, the crime is a felony entailing up to five years imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $250,000 for individuals and $500,000 for organizations. 18 U.S.C. ?? 2319(a), 3571(b).  Jail time can be increased to ten years for repeat offenders.  It's unclear whether Skwerl previously posted other copyrighted songs but he apparently hasn't previously been convicted, so his exposure appears to be five years of jail time at most.

Infringement is a crime where it is done "willfully and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain." 17 U.S.C. ? 506(a).   Recent fines levied in criminal copyright infringement cases have been as much as $250,000.

"Guns N' Roses representatives have been made aware of the arrest and are leaving the matter to the authorities," said Larry Solters, the band's spokesman.  On the other hand, the RIAA is pleased:  Kathy Loedler, the RIAA's director of investigations for the western region said this is "the beginning of an effort to be more aggressive. When we tell somebody to just take it down and there's no penalty, there's no arrest, there's no fine, and it's very easy for them to continue to do it."

The music industry's reaction to copyright infringement is starting to look like the reaction we've seen from the movie industry for some time.

http://www.wlf-law.com/index.asp



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ben9785
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« Reply #618 on: August 31, 2008, 07:20:02 PM »

This is all depressing..

I'm just trying to look ahead to the time where we will get to hear the album and talk about the songs, b-sides, future tour dates, the next album etc rather than have to accept news like this.
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« Reply #619 on: August 31, 2008, 08:11:03 PM »

This is all depressing..


Sorry to bring you down. Cheesy

I found that article very interesting...however, I bet he does get some kind of a plea deal.
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