March 12th, West Hollywood, CA @ House Of Blues (UpDates).

[ravensjacket29]

Fact: DJ is better than Robin for Guns N' Roses.

Fact: That's an opinion

[AxlReznor]

Fact: This entire argument is stupid and counter-productive.

[new gnr fan]

I think, a new album wouldnt be a 100% DJ album, because there are still 7 other members in the band. So at first, Axl writes the bulk of the songs, and then, other members adding solos and stuff like that.
So maybe the new album would be only inlfuenced 20-30% from DJ, because of the other band members.,
Remember: GN'R isnt Sixx:AM, where here is one of the main songwriters.

[WAR41]

Fact: This entire argument is stupid and counter-productive.

Fact: This argument is not counter-productive its just stupid 

[volcano62]

Fact: DJ is better than Robin for Guns N' Roses.

Fact: That's an opinion

Not sure about that...how come the band is more accepted especially in the US since DJ joined them?

[cyllan]

That's big of you - bet Dj'll appreciate that.  . Funny how you dismiss Dj's quote instantly. I wonder if a comment by Robin would get the same treatment. Probably not, seeing as in your world any onstage mistakes Robin made were intentional alterations to well-known and much-loved solos.

Don't really see how it's big of me. I don't see how someone can remember exactly what someone else said ten years ago. Sounded more like DJ was trying to convey the fact that Axl liked his playing and work on Beautiful Creatures then an exact quote. If Robin made a similar claim I would have a similar reaction. Your bias is amusing though.

I think you need to read my posts again. I clearly stated Robin has made mistakes. My point was that changing the solo's isn't a mistake. Didn't think it would be that hard to understand.

Regarding your first point. I'm reposting Dj's quote because you seem to have misinterpreted it.  Dj wasn't having to remember a comment made by Axl ten years or more ago, the comment was made shortly after Dj joined the band. I'll say that again for clarity: they met 10 years or so ago certainly, but the comment, "If I knew you would have been up for this, I would?ve came after you years ago." was only made during a conversation shortly after Dj joined GN'R.

"What really surprised DJ Ashba was how closely Axl followed his career over the years. ?The first time I sat down with him after joining the band, he had known about my entire career. It blew my mind,? he said. ?He remembered meeting me ten years ago, probably even longer than that now, when Sharon Osborne introduced us, while I was making the Beautiful Creatures album. He said, ?If I knew you would have been up for this, I would?ve came after you years ago.? I didn?t even know I was on his radar, so it was pretty flattering.?

And as for your second paragraph, my point is that if Robin changed a solo you didn't consider it a mistake but an intentional variation. However, if Dj changes anything, you consider it a mistake (see your reply #251). You're the one with the clear bias and double standards. Here are your responses on the subject, starting with your original post (reply #251).

I know some would say Robin messed up solo's but, he didn't. He changed them intentionally and played what he felt.

Subsequently, when Ali pointed out that Robin wasn't infallible, you backtracked with this post:

[Of course he made mistakes. I'm not saying he is perfect. I even said his November Rain solo was less than steller.

What I meant is that, Robin changed the solo's intentionally and made them his own. Thus, changing the solo's wasn't a mistake but his interpretation of the solo in his own way.

Surely you can see the contradiction in your posts.

[fTw777]

I have no real interest in all this back and forth bickering and find it infinitely more interesting that they played Dead Flowers and wish they'd do so more often.

[HBK]

Fact: DJ is better than Robin for Guns N' Roses.

Fact: That's an opinion

Dj is excelente Guitar, producer, marketing, beatiful, blah, bla...

Robin Is ARTIST.

[One.In.A.Million]

fact Some fans prefer Robin Finck in Guns N' Roses, rather than DJ.

fact Some fans prefer DJ in Guns N' Roses, rather than Robin.

fact Everyone has the right to an opinion in a democratic society, and has the right to express this view.

Let's just leave it at that, I'm fed up with people twisting things and making something, an issue when it's not. But I will say this.....

If you consider Guns N' Roses as a band, and not an Axl Rose solo project. You have to appreciate the players, and look beyond the name as if it makes everyone who is currently in GN'R, the best it's ever been. Some people seem to be scared to challenge anything that isn't "current" with the band...

If DJ left GN'R tomorrow, the fans who have come to love him.....will be just as upset as the Robin fans are, if they are insulted for being "stuck in the past", everytime they tried to compliment him to the detrement of whoever the "current player" may be. 

[jazjme]

Think this thread deserves to be locked now, lol, I think we all get it, its redundant now.

[CIAT]

Fact: DJ is better than Robin for Guns N' Roses.

Fact: That's an opinion

Not sure about that...how come the band is more accepted especially in the US since DJ joined them?

Perhaps they are more accepted because of the overall flow of the show as opposed to past tours, and the presentation of the band. In past tours solo's were drawn out, spotlight solo's that ruined the momentum of shows and always were prone to critisim. There were also long delays inbetween songs. Now, the solo's are more like jam's with the full band and aren't too long, and the overall show flows much smoother with no delays. The band also looks more like a rock band now as opposed to the alien circus look of the 2002 era and the braided/footguitar/stange outfit look of the 2006 era. If you really want to attribute the eaiser acceptance of GNR in the US to DJ, then you are overlook quite a lot of things.

And since when does success in the US determine how good someone is anyways? What does popularity have to do with musicianship and talent? So I'm assuming your favorite artists are Justin Beiber and the like, eh? facepalm

That's big of you - bet Dj'll appreciate that.  . Funny how you dismiss Dj's quote instantly. I wonder if a comment by Robin would get the same treatment. Probably not, seeing as in your world any onstage mistakes Robin made were intentional alterations to well-known and much-loved solos.

Don't really see how it's big of me. I don't see how someone can remember exactly what someone else said ten years ago. Sounded more like DJ was trying to convey the fact that Axl liked his playing and work on Beautiful Creatures then an exact quote. If Robin made a similar claim I would have a similar reaction. Your bias is amusing though.

I think you need to read my posts again. I clearly stated Robin has made mistakes. My point was that changing the solo's isn't a mistake. Didn't think it would be that hard to understand.

Regarding your first point. I'm reposting Dj's quote because you seem to have misinterpreted it.  Dj wasn't having to remember a comment made by Axl ten years or more ago, the comment was made shortly after Dj joined the band. I'll say that again for clarity: they met 10 years or so ago certainly, but the comment, "If I knew you would have been up for this, I would?ve came after you years ago." was only made during a conversation shortly after Dj joined GN'R.

"What really surprised DJ Ashba was how closely Axl followed his career over the years. ?The first time I sat down with him after joining the band, he had known about my entire career. It blew my mind,? he said. ?He remembered meeting me ten years ago, probably even longer than that now, when Sharon Osborne introduced us, while I was making the Beautiful Creatures album. He said, ?If I knew you would have been up for this, I would?ve came after you years ago.? I didn?t even know I was on his radar, so it was pretty flattering.?

And as for your second paragraph, my point is that if Robin changed a solo you didn't consider it a mistake but an intentional variation. However, if Dj changes anything, you consider it a mistake (see your reply #251). You're the one with the clear bias and double standards. Here are your responses on the subject, starting with your original post (reply #251).

I know some would say Robin messed up solo's but, he didn't. He changed them intentionally and played what he felt.

Subsequently, when Ali pointed out that Robin wasn't infallible, you backtracked with this post:

[Of course he made mistakes. I'm not saying he is perfect. I even said his November Rain solo was less than steller.

What I meant is that, Robin changed the solo's intentionally and made them his own. Thus, changing the solo's wasn't a mistake but his interpretation of the solo in his own way.

Surely you can see the contradiction in your posts.

I was unaware the DJ quote was from recentley. I don't really read many DJ interviews. However I still believe he meant it in more of a figure of speech type of way.

As for my posts about Robin, I can see how you can mistake what I meant when you post those out of context quotes. But if you go back to the original quote, I was trying to explain that DJ messed up a lot. Then I siad that people may think Robin messed up because he made the solo's different but, that they weren't mistakes. They were his interpretations. By saying that, I didn't mean that Robin never made mistakes. I just mean that changing a solo isn't a mistake because I was anticipating a reply like "Robin messed up solo's all the time. The SCOM solo doesn't even sound like the original" or something to that extent.

To clarify, changing a solo and improvising isn't a mistake. And yes, Robin and DJ have made plenty of mistakes.

[estebanf]

Well, one thing is for sure, you cannot question a GNR fan's passion when it comes to the band 

I think the general consensus here is that we all prefer different players in the band... whether its the classic lineup, the 1992 lineup, the 2001 lineup, the 2006 lineup or the current lineup. 

But the common theme is that everyone is happy that Axl Rose is out there still making music and playing shows.  Even though I don't agree with everything Axl or anyone who was ever associated with the band does or has done doesn't mean I don't appreciate the music they have given me in my lifetime.  I will acknowledge that if it were not for DJ we may not have a touring GNR right now.  So for that, thanks DJ!  As long as the guys in the band keep Axl motivated to continue with his musical career I will follow them.  I may not like DJ like I have previous members, but he has kept the band alive and while he may annoy the hell out of me at times he will always have my respect as a member of the band. 

This is a GREAT post, which i agree 100%. But I really cant understand why some of you get so nervous with this discussion... relax! Some of us like Robin, some of you like Ashba, and its all fine because the important thing is having GNR alive and rocking and planning things for the future! We're just discussing, losing our free time discussion our passions, and that's fine, no need to talk in terms of ''disrespect'' or ''bash'' or ''whine''... lets get rid of the drama a little bit for god's sake!

I would support GNR even if Barney the dinosaur played lead guitar, and that's something I could swear. To me, the band is bigger than the individuals, and it will always be that way.

Now, with all these things being said and clarified: can we PEACEFULLY express our opinions and PEACEFULLY debate? Robin Finck fans are not trolls, like a lot of the Slash fans that would terminate this band to start a new one that includes him and that HATE Guns N' Roses just for being alive without him.

Fact: DJ is better than Robin for Guns N' Roses.

Fact: That's an opinion

Not sure about that...how come the band is more accepted especially in the US since DJ joined them?

Perhaps they are more accepted because of the overall flow of the show as opposed to past tours, and the presentation of the band. In past tours solo's were drawn out, spotlight solo's that ruined the momentum of shows and always were prone to critisim. There were also long delays inbetween songs. Now, the solo's are more like jam's with the full band and aren't too long, and the overall show flows much smoother with no delays. The band also looks more like a rock band now as opposed to the alien circus look of the 2002 era and the braided/footguitar/stange outfit look of the 2006 era. If you really want to attribute the eaiser acceptance of GNR in the US to DJ, then you are overlook quite a lot of things.

And since when does success in the US determine how good someone is anyways? What does popularity have to do with musicianship and talent? So I'm assuming your favorite artists are Justin Beiber and the like, eh? facepalm

LOL, you're damn right! The band changed some CRUCIAL things to be ''more accepted'' not only in the USA but worldwide in my opinion. Attributing that to DJ is just hilarious. I can accept he can be ONE of the reasons for a part of the audience (a lot of casual fans will always prefer for GNR slash-styled players... I can admit DJ is an easier to diggest player for the masses, a ''safer'' option than Robin), but not *the* reason for that: all the things CIAT mention cant be ignored. And IMO, these ''changes'' were made in 2006, not in 2009... and in terms of stats, I'm pretty sure  the 2006/2007 was the best selling lineup in terms of number of sellouts and the size of the venues they've played.

[D]

DJ is more true to the Guns N Roses sound

Robin was the choice to take band in a different direction

there! argument solved

[D]

Honestly, the fact Axl lets these guys come back kinda shows how insignificant they are...

Axl has busted his ass to push this band to the level they are on now. So letting them play is seen as a non threat cause majority of GNR fans never liked Robin anyway for this band. There is a very small hardcore percentage.. but if u polled GNR fans it would be more thumbs down than up. guarantee it.

It actually pissed me off, DJ wasn't on the stage... DJ has earned the right to not take a backseat to anybody



DJ reminds me of Scott Weiland *Keep reading*

When i went to see VR, I was there to see the old Guns guys... Spent 90 percent of the concert watching Scott. he stole the show

At my GNR show.. I went to see Axl.... Spent 50 percent of the time watching DJ who was constantly in my section walking the rails, interacting and doing killer shit while playing flawlessly and true to the material i have grown up worshiping. DJ somewhat STOLE the show in Nashville for me.

[WAR41]

Honestly, the fact Axl lets these guys come back kinda shows how insignificant they are...

Axl has busted his ass to push this band to the level they are on now. So letting them play is seen as a non threat cause majority of GNR fans never liked Robin anyway for this band.

Wow, a little extreme there buddy.  Maybe Axl let him come back and play because he is still his friend.  Look, Robin left GNR like I have left jobs in my lifetime.  I have worked for and with people who I had a great relationship with.  Its just business.  GNR wasn't the right fit for Robin anymore so he left.  No big deal.  I am sure he wished him well and they went their separate ways.  That doesn't mean the friendship ends there.  It has nothing to do with them being a threat or a non-threat.  Otherwise there is zero chance Axl would have invited Duff and Izzy onstage with him. 

[D]

Right but Robin left Axl high n dry right before album was released and he was needed the most for promotion/videos etc

 I am convinced, and Sorry Axl if u are reading this, that a BIG reason we never saw "Better" video is cause Robin left... and woulda been weird having a new video featuring a guy no longer in the band..

instead of concentrating on major release strategies.. they had to find another guitar player.

Point is.. Robin could guest star every stop on the tour... There will be no out cry for a CD lineup reunion

U throw another guy up there though....

see the difference?

[CIAT]

lol. Seriously?

You really think Robin is the reason we didn't get the Better video? You think Robin is the reason Axl failed to promote the album?

And how would having Robin the music video be any different than having him on the album if he isn't in the band anymore? Or Buckethead, Paul Tobias and Brain for that matter?

How did this conversation even turn into such a Robin hate fest? It's like the second someone leaves the band they become the antichrist on this forum....when/if DJ leaves will you all turn your backs on him?

Enough with the conspiracy theories. Jesus.

Some people like Robin. If you don't, fair enough but why try to blame him for things that none of us know anything about?

[WAR41]

Right but Robin left Axl high n dry right before album was released and he was needed the most for promotion/videos etc

 I am convinced, and Sorry Axl if u are reading this, that a BIG reason we never saw "Better" video is cause Robin left... and woulda been weird having a new video featuring a guy no longer in the band..


see the difference?

LOL, what?  Dude the reason we didn't have a 'Better' video is because Axl didn't think it was the right time.  Now I don't think Axl is infallible, but come on!  In the end who gives a shit about a music video?  We got CD!  Even though the album didn't meet my expectations I still am ecstatic that Axl was able to release the album.

You are taking Robin's decision way way too personal.  Axl is 50 years old, he has been in this business long enough through thick and thin, let him take care of the problems in the band. 

I will say again, I never liked Robin, and I like DJ even less, but if they influence Axl to continue making music, then I welcome them both with open arms!  Here's to another release soon  and if not, I will read updates from this site each night about what is going on in Axl's world.  But if I want to read about ex-Gunners I will go elsewhere 

[D]

U guys aren't even considering this though:

Your lead guitar player quits a few months before album release? how can u tour, make appearances do anything when u are holding guitar auditions?

And abso fucking lutely.

U can't have a new Guns N Roses video, first video from the band in i don't know how many years, that features guys NO longer in the band........ Talk about confusing people etc.
Axl finally broke through the "Where's Slash" crap, so now, u are gonna have a situation where people are like,"well, where's Robin, or that guy in the video?" That Axl can't keep a guitarist rhetoric flies instead of people focusing on music or video.

Robin was in position to become a guitar hero/star and he blew it to go back sucking on Trent's tit.

Axl allowed him the freedom to create,write and to be a superstar.

Trent allowed him to be a backing guitarist

Will never understand that logic and OH, since he never gave an explanation why he LEFT the fans hanging, I shall assume/speculate anything I want..

[HBK]

Change Name of Topic"

ROBIN Is BACK !@