What Happened to Axl's Voice? A professional point of view.

[Bazfreak]

Many people discuss and argue about Axls voice on the several threads of this board! I found this article in a brazilian Rock website and there are some interesting points...its worth reading it. 
It was written by a professional singer teacher and GNR fan.

This text has the purpose to clarify something that concerns many GNR fans. What happened to Axl's voice?

Even though Axl has a good tone (2nd Baritone), it is a fact that he sang most of the time out of his vocal range, and many times using a very dangerous technique for those who do not have full control over it, called "drive".

Perhaps, the biggest mistake in his carreer was using drive in excess, without prevously studying it. A lot of singing teachers refuse to teach drive, because the likelyhood of the student to make it incorrectly is too high. Truth is, singers naturally tend to use drive through the throat, however, the technique must be used through the "palate" (not sure if this is the  proper name in english) and is a fact that most of the singers who use drive damage its voice in a long term basis.
Very few rock singers have full control of this technique, for example Dio mastered it.

For a start, we train drive through an exercise called "Fry", that not only corrects the vocal fold posture, but also allows the student to bring the drive little by little to the "palate" instead of the throat and avoiding further damage to the vocal chords. Besides fry, there are other exercises important for those who wants to use drive in a safe way. Professional teachers can pass over the technique correctly.
Truth is, by using drive without mastering it, Axl caused major damages to this vocal chords. In 1993, we already could notice that Axl's voice was weaker than previous years.
The use of drive has caused nodules on Axl's chords and this was probaly one of the reasons Axl did not sing live at all between 1994 and 2001.
Between 1997 and 1999, Axl recorded some vocals for the Live Era album and the change on his voice could be easily noticed, but, drive was still there, more carefully indeed, but it was still there.

In 2000, he sang Dead Flowers in a club with Gilby Clarke and he used drive back then.
Sometime after this presentation with Gilby, Axl decided to undergo a surgery to remove the nodules on his vocal chords. This kind of surgery has the purpose to remove the nodules and leave the voice more "clean", but the "rasp sound" tends to dissapear.
Thats the reason why in 2001 during the HoB and RiR comeback concerts and through the whole 2002 tour, after undergoing the 1st surgery Axl sang with a "cleaner" voice , as he was forbidden by the doctors to use drive due to risks of permanent damage to his voice.

As Axl did not have the power that drive gave to his voice, he was forced to improve other voice features, like his "head voice" that has never been as consistent as his "chest voice", and he also improved the use of "belting".

Technically, Axl has improved, but many GNR songs missed the drive , as the fans got used to hear it. Anyone who  read critics at that time , remembers that Axl was boomed with heavy critics regarding his voice and his new vocal stance, and that may be the main reason the 2002 tour was cancelled all of a sudden.
Tired of the harsh critics during 2001/2002 tour, Axl decided to undergo another surgery in 2004, with the purpose to give more depth to his voice. After this procedure, the high pitch got a little more deep and low, giving us the false impression that his voice was back to the strenght he had before.
Disobeying  medical instructions, Axl decided to use drive during the 2006 tour, but his voice did not have the strentgh of the past. For many times, his voice  souded raucorous, forced, superficial, and without the range of the past.

A lot of people judge if Axl is singing well or bad just based on the use of drive, but singing embraces a lot of other features other than drive itself. Other features have to be taken into account, such as extension, projection, depth, vibratos, head voice, chest voice, belting, etc.
Using drive again, we could notice that he struggled a lot. We could see the veins popping up his neck and his health was at risk, even though we loved the sound of his voice, reminding in a way of the old days. But this was not healthy, Axl never sang in a sustainable way.

In 2010, many people say that he sang well because he once again used drive in excess, using it in several songs, but I gotta say again: singing is not just drive!! Even using drive, Axl was out of tune several times, i'd say even more out of tune than in 2002 when he was not using drive at all, but kept on tune most of the time, as we can notice in Street of Dreams and Madagascar from that tour.
But truth is, even though it is bad for his health, the way he sang in 2010 sounded amazing for the fans because maybe was the year that his voice sounded more similar like the golden GNR era. It is important however to clarify that his voice was not "good" as most fans claim. Even during the golden GNR era, Axl's voice was not judged by its technique, but through the power of drive. That was what caught fans attention on his carreer. It is truth that many songs sound different and strange without the drive. But this happens because Axl made people to get used to it, without thinking ahead on his carreer.
He struggled a lot in 2010 too use drive the whole tour, but as I said before, he did not sing in a sustainable way and it was visible that he used drive through his throat and not through the "palate", what proves that he has never found a teacher to teach him sing properly after his medical interventions.

There are also rumours that besides the nodules on his vocal chords, Axl had another issue called "larynx-pharynx reflux", just like Edu Falaschi from brazilian metal band Angra.
It is possible that with the struggle he made between 2006 and 2010, Axl had developed new nodules on his chords, and due to that, he had avoided using drive once again since 2011, and most notably in 2014 as he voice is "clean" during the whole concert.
But unlike 2002, Axl does not have the energy to support and sustain the notes as he did back in 2002.

Thats why his voice sounds worse than 2002, breathless and without support.
As a consequence, it is likely that on future tours he selects more songs that fit his range,  I mean, songs he uses his chest voice like You Aint The First, Mr Bronwstone, Bad Obsession, Dont Cry, Double Talkin Jive...
In the studio, it is possible that he uses drive to release songs that remind people of the golden days on future records, but even in Chinese Democracy, he reduced drasticaly the use of drive. In a same proportion, his techique improved, but his power decreased.

Axl himself has admitted during TMS with Eddie Trunk that the forced a lot in songs like YCMB. He said: "How will I sing this live without hurting my voice?" He did not think ahead, but in a general way was it worth it, because these songs under the excessive drive effect even without the proper technique sound spectacular.
But we ask ourselves...What can Axl do to perform satisfactory results on stage?

First of all, he could lose some pounds. That would give him more energy for live concerts. Loosing weight equals more energy, therefore he would be able to improve his live performance, what would help him to sustain high notes when needed.

Second, he could master drive technique with a specialized teacher and use it in a correct and sustainable way. He would have to find a balance between all vocal techniques, a balance between head voice, chest voice and drive in order to avoid compromising his voice long term. He does not have to use drive all the time, he has to find the balance point.

Third, he could undergo a surgery called Voicelift. This procedure "refurbish" the vocal chords. Singers like Steven Tyler and David Coverdale did undergo this procedure years ago.
So, if you are a rock singer or has the intention to be, and wishes to use drive, please study the technique to its fullest. Take care of your voice, avoid drinking and smoking, have discipline,  and keep updated regarding human anatomy, specially regarding vocal chord muscles.

Source: whiplash.net

[D-GenerationX]

VERY interesting read.  Thanks so much for posting this.

[gunsbetterthanever]

Agreed!  Great read!

[BangoSkank]

Fantastic.  Sheds a lot of light on what goes on behind the scenes.

I always figured it was way more than just the laziness that most angry fans accuse him of.

[Bazfreak]

VERY interesting read.  Thanks so much for posting this.

 

Very intersting reading indeed. Before judging we all must first try to understand the whole scenario...I wa always suspicious that there was some issues with his health... dunno if the surgeries the author mentions are truth, but at least makes a lot of sense to me now.

[kukol1978]

Many people discuss and argue about Axls voice on the several threads of this board! I found this article in a brazilian Rock website and there are some interesting points...its worth reading it. 
It was written by a professional singer teacher and GNR fan.

This text has the purpose to clarify something that concerns many GNR fans. What happened to Axl's voice?

Even though Axl has a good tone (2nd Baritone), it is a fact that he sang most of the time out of his vocal range, and many times using a very dangerous technique for those who do not have full control over it, called "drive".

Perhaps, the biggest mistake in his carreer was using drive in excess, without prevously studying it. A lot of singing teachers refuse to teach drive, because the likelyhood of the student to make it incorrectly is too high. Truth is, singers naturally tend to use drive through the throat, however, the technique must be used through the "palate" (not sure if this is the  proper name in english) and is a fact that most of the singers who use drive damage its voice in a long term basis.
Very few rock singers have full control of this technique, for example Dio mastered it.

For a start, we train drive through an exercise called "Fry", that not only corrects the vocal fold posture, but also allows the student to bring the drive little by little to the "palate" instead of the throat and avoiding further damage to the vocal chords. Besides fry, there are other exercises important for those who wants to use drive in a safe way. Professional teachers can pass over the technique correctly.
Truth is, by using drive without mastering it, Axl caused major damages to this vocal chords. In 1993, we already could notice that Axl's voice was weaker than previous years.
The use of drive has caused nodules on Axl's chords and this was probaly one of the reasons Axl did not sing live at all between 1994 and 2001.
Between 1997 and 1999, Axl recorded some vocals for the Live Era album and the change on his voice could be easily noticed, but, drive was still there, more carefully indeed, but it was still there.

In 2000, he sang Dead Flowers in a club with Gilby Clarke and he used drive back then.
Sometime after this presentation with Gilby, Axl decided to undergo a surgery to remove the nodules on his vocal chords. This kind of surgery has the purpose to remove the nodules and leave the voice more "clean", but the "rasp sound" tends to dissapear.
Thats the reason why in 2001 during the HoB and RiR comeback concerts and through the whole 2002 tour, after undergoing the 1st surgery Axl sang with a "cleaner" voice , as he was forbidden by the doctors to use drive due to risks of permanent damage to his voice.

As Axl did not have the power that drive gave to his voice, he was forced to improve other voice features, like his "head voice" that has never been as consistent as his "chest voice", and he also improved the use of "belting".

Technically, Axl has improved, but many GNR songs missed the drive , as the fans got used to hear it. Anyone who  read critics at that time , remembers that Axl was boomed with heavy critics regarding his voice and his new vocal stance, and that may be the main reason the 2002 tour was cancelled all of a sudden.
Tired of the harsh critics during 2001/2002 tour, Axl decided to undergo another surgery in 2004, with the purpose to give more depth to his voice. After this procedure, the high pitch got a little more deep and low, giving us the false impression that his voice was back to the strenght he had before.
Disobeying  medical instructions, Axl decided to use drive during the 2006 tour, but his voice did not have the strentgh of the past. For many times, his voice  souded raucorous, forced, superficial, and without the range of the past.

A lot of people judge if Axl is singing well or bad just based on the use of drive, but singing embraces a lot of other features other than drive itself. Other features have to be taken into account, such as extension, projection, depth, vibratos, head voice, chest voice, belting, etc.
Using drive again, we could notice that he struggled a lot. We could see the veins popping up his neck and his health was at risk, even though we loved the sound of his voice, reminding in a way of the old days. But this was not healthy, Axl never sang in a sustainable way.

In 2010, many people say that he sang well because he once again used drive in excess, using it in several songs, but I gotta say again: singing is not just drive!! Even using drive, Axl was out of tune several times, i'd say even more out of tune than in 2002 when he was not using drive at all, but kept on tune most of the time, as we can notice in Street of Dreams and Madagascar from that tour.
But truth is, even though it is bad for his health, the way he sang in 2010 sounded amazing for the fans because maybe was the year that his voice sounded more similar like the golden GNR era. It is important however to clarify that his voice was not "good" as most fans claim. Even during the golden GNR era, Axl's voice was not judged by its technique, but through the power of drive. That was what caught fans attention on his carreer. It is truth that many songs sound different and strange without the drive. But this happens because Axl made people to get used to it, without thinking ahead on his carreer.
He struggled a lot in 2010 too use drive the whole tour, but as I said before, he did not sing in a sustainable way and it was visible that he used drive through his throat and not through the "palate", what proves that he has never found a teacher to teach him sing properly after his medical interventions.

There are also rumours that besides the nodules on his vocal chords, Axl had another issue called "larynx-pharynx reflux", just like Edu Falaschi from brazilian metal band Angra.
It is possible that with the struggle he made between 2006 and 2010, Axl had developed new nodules on his chords, and due to that, he had avoided using drive once again since 2011, and most notably in 2014 as he voice is "clean" during the whole concert.
But unlike 2002, Axl does not have the energy to support and sustain the notes as he did back in 2002.

Thats why his voice sounds worse than 2002, breathless and without support.
As a consequence, it is likely that on future tours he selects more songs that fit his range,  I mean, songs he uses his chest voice like You Aint The First, Mr Bronwstone, Bad Obsession, Dont Cry, Double Talkin Jive...
In the studio, it is possible that he uses drive to release songs that remind people of the golden days on future records, but even in Chinese Democracy, he reduced drasticaly the use of drive. In a same proportion, his techique improved, but his power decreased.

Axl himself has admitted during TMS with Eddie Trunk that the forced a lot in songs like YCMB. He said: "How will I sing this live without hurting my voice?" He did not think ahead, but in a general way was it worth it, because these songs under the excessive drive effect even without the proper technique sound spectacular.
But we ask ourselves...What can Axl do to perform satisfactory results on stage?

First of all, he could lose some pounds. That would give him more energy for live concerts. Loosing weight equals more energy, therefore he would be able to improve his live performance, what would help him to sustain high notes when needed.

Second, he could master drive technique with a specialized teacher and use it in a correct and sustainable way. He would have to find a balance between all vocal techniques, a balance between head voice, chest voice and drive in order to avoid compromising his voice long term. He does not have to use drive all the time, he has to find the balance point.

Third, he could undergo a surgery called Voicelift. This procedure "refurbish" the vocal chords. Singers like Steven Tyler and David Coverdale did undergo this procedure years ago.
So, if you are a rock singer or has the intention to be, and wishes to use drive, please study the technique to its fullest. Take care of your voice, avoid drinking and smoking, have discipline,  and keep updated regarding human anatomy, specially regarding vocal chord muscles.

Source: whiplash.net

2 surgery? i dont belive that,and btw could you send as a link to the article? becuase i didnt find it at whiplash.

Obliusly his voice seems to be fucked.

[gunsbetterthanever]

2 surgery? i dont belive that,and btw could you send as a link to the article? becuase i didnt find it at whiplash.

Obliusly his voice seems to be fucked.
[/quote]

Trying to understand.  WHat is obliusly?

[kukol1978]

2 surgery? i dont belive that,and btw could you send as a link to the article? becuase i didnt find it at whiplash.

Obliusly his voice seems to be fucked.

Trying to understand.  WHat is obliusly?
[/quote]

that his voice is fucked and that is becuase he doesnt sing with rasp.But 2 surgery one for nudles( i understand) and one for tune down ( fuck no).I think there is a lot of imagination in that article and its written like he was at dinner with axl all days.

[Ali]

Fantastic.  Sheds a lot of light on what goes on behind the scenes.

I always figured it was way more than just the laziness that most angry fans accuse him of.

It's an interesting read, but it's an op-ed piece, nothing more.

There are claims of vocal surgeries and doctor's orders with no source provided.

A lot of wild speculation here.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

Well, this one lasted longer in the big room than I thought it would.

Guess its back to quoting pics from the concert and discussing their epicness.

[jarmo]

Because the same few people talking about Youtube clips in all show threads is so interesting!




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Because the same few people talking about Youtube clips in all show threads is so interesting!

Was this one you or another one of those deputies running amok, clearly against your wishes?

The state Axl's voice is a current and relevant topic, like it or not.  Its not like people asking what your favorite track on AFD is.

[LongGoneDay]

Very interesting.
Father time is a bitch.

Such a shame those prime years of his career were wasted.

Would love to see Axl step out from underneath the GN?R umbrella, and write/record original songs better suited for his current voice.

[D-GenerationX]

Such a shame those prime years of his career were wasted.

No doubt.  He just flat out pissed away so much of his career with his prolonged inactivity.

In a private moment, I wonder if he would concede this?

[Bazfreak]

Fantastic.  Sheds a lot of light on what goes on behind the scenes.

I always figured it was way more than just the laziness that most angry fans accuse him of.

It's an interesting read, but it's an op-ed piece, nothing more.

There are claims of vocal surgeries and doctor's orders with no source provided.

A lot of wild speculation here.

Ali

Yeah Ali., I cant tell where the author got the info from..and neither does he mentions it...specially regarding tje surgeries. All in all his comments make a lot of sense and may explain a lot....my only doubt is if tue mentioned surgeries were in fact real.

[Ali]

Fantastic.  Sheds a lot of light on what goes on behind the scenes.

I always figured it was way more than just the laziness that most angry fans accuse him of.

It's an interesting read, but it's an op-ed piece, nothing more.

There are claims of vocal surgeries and doctor's orders with no source provided.

A lot of wild speculation here.

Ali

Yeah Ali., I cant tell where the author got the info from..and neither does he mentions it...specially regarding tje surgeries. All in all his comments make a lot of sense and may explain a lot....my only doubt is if tue mentioned surgeries were in fact real.

First, thanks for posting that article.

Second, I agree that what is being said sounds plausible (though I am a singer myself and have never heard of "drive", though I understand that may be a language issue). But, a lot of claims are being made with no sources provided.

So, that makes me regard this piece as nothing more than op-ed with a lot of unsubstantiated guessing and speculation.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

The only dubious claims are the ones about surgery because that's very easily proven or disproven.

What can't be disputed is that fact he sounds like a very pale imitation of the guy we all became a fan of.  And the reasons theorized here do make a lot of sense.

[Ali]

The only dubious claims are the ones about surgery because that's very easily proven or disproven.

What can't be disputed is that fact he sounds like a very pale imitation of the guy we all became a fan of.  And the reasons theorized here do make a lot of sense.

Actually, no.  While any factual claims made without support evidence or sources can be disputed, any opinions stated can be disagreed with as well.

Plausible does not necessary equal probable.

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

The only dubious claims are the ones about surgery because that's very easily proven or disproven.

What can't be disputed is that fact he sounds like a very pale imitation of the guy we all became a fan of.  And the reasons theorized here do make a lot of sense.

Actually, no.  While any factual claims made without support evidence or sources can be disputed, any opinions stated can be disagreed with as well.

Plausible does not necessary equal probable.

Ali

Well, in this case, the factual claims are made by the two appendages that hang off each side of my head that allow me to hear things.

We can quibble about the why his voice is how it is until god calls us both, but there is absolutely no disputing its not what it once was.

[Ali]

The only dubious claims are the ones about surgery because that's very easily proven or disproven.

What can't be disputed is that fact he sounds like a very pale imitation of the guy we all became a fan of.  And the reasons theorized here do make a lot of sense.

Actually, no.  While any factual claims made without support evidence or sources can be disputed, any opinions stated can be disagreed with as well.

Plausible does not necessary equal probable.

Ali

Well, in this case, the factual claims are made by the two appendages that hang off each side of my head that allow me to hear things.

We can quibble about the why his voice is how it is until god calls us both, but there is absolutely no disputing its not what it once was.

There is a difference between merely not a difference and assessing the relative quality of that difference.

I'm not disputing, and never have, that he sings differently.  But, whether or not it is good or bad, or "pale imitation" as you said, is a matter of opinion.  As much as that may strike you as odd and as much as you may disagree, the point of relative quality is subjective.

Ali