GNR albums and Warrant

[D-GenerationX]

Only a fool goes looking for a rainstorm on a sunny day, it is great to be skeptical but when you verbalize it all the time and around the wrong audience you come off as negative and nitpicky.

Well, this is the bottom line, isn't it?  When you get right down to it.

Do you ever go to any other GNR forums but this one?  This is a serious question.  Because if you think someone like me or Ginger King represents true hardcore dissent and haterism, you are in for a world of shock, believe me.

[EmilyGNR]

Sometimes I think some of these folks would be happier if a day went by where no one posted about anything.

Speculation?  Dangerous and ill informed. 

Criticism?  Get out of here with that. 

Show reviews?  Only if you can produce a ticket stub.

Enjoy the silence.  Its fucking golden.

Everything that is in agreement with your personal desires seems true to you everything that does not line up catapults you into a catechism of criticisms and complaints.

You have a strong case of the "shoulds" and "musts" for others, you have so far attempted to use humor and implied intimidation to try and  get your way and justify your statements and validate your views, both have proven futile and ineffective.

If you find this band so disappointing and unfufilling why not go find one that makes you happy?
Healthy and happy people dont continually focus on negatives, and exhibit toxic behavior.

[EmilyGNR]

Only a fool goes looking for a rainstorm on a sunny day, it is great to be skeptical but when you verbalize it all the time and around the wrong audience you come off as negative and nitpicky.

Well, this is the bottom line, isn't it?  When you get right down to it.

Do you ever go to any other GNR forums but this one?  This is a serious question.  Because if you think someone like me or Ginger King represents true hardcore dissent and haterism, you are in for a world of shock, believe me.

So you are claiming to be innocent by a matter of degree? If you arent part of the solution you are part of the problem.

[D-GenerationX]

Sometimes I think some of these folks would be happier if a day went by where no one posted about anything.

Speculation?  Dangerous and ill informed. 

Criticism?  Get out of here with that. 

Show reviews?  Only if you can produce a ticket stub.

Enjoy the silence.  Its fucking golden.

Everything that is in agreement with your personal desires seems true to you everything that does not line up catapults you into a catechism of criticisms and complaints.

You have a strong case of the "shoulds" and "musts" for others, you have so far attempted to use humor and implied intimidation to try and  get your way and justify your statements and validate your views, both have proven futile and ineffective.

If you find this band so disappointing and unfufilling why not go find one that makes you happy?
Healthy and happy people dont continually focus on negatives, and exhibit toxic behavior.

I probably hate my job, my family...hell, my life, really.  That should be obvious from the way I ask why it takes 10 years to record an rock album.  

If there is another reason someone would say such a thing other than the fact they have a daily struggle to keep the gun out of their mouth...I am unaware of it.

[D-GenerationX]

Do you ever go to any other GNR forums but this one?  This is a serious question.  Because if you think someone like me or Ginger King represents true hardcore dissent and haterism, you are in for a world of shock, believe me.

So you are claiming to be innocent by a matter of degree? If you arent part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I question the validity of the "problem".

Look, anyone that chooses to post here knows the deal.  Its rah-rah all the time, sunshine and puppy dog tails, and just about zero dissent.  Its why so many of the online community refuses to come here.  These are not state secrets.

A guy like me, or a Ginger King, a sofine11, or any number of us...it puts us in a tough spot.  We are still interested in the current band and its future.  The only place such things are talked about in any sort of serious way is here.  So its here that we must come.

The tricky part is wanting to have those conversations while we are constantly forced to accepted a rather skewed version of reality and be constantly told we aren't real fans or hate our lives.  All because we don't just nod along and agree everything is awesome and we are the luckiest fans in the universe.

Ultimately, I like coming here, even despite the flack I take.  But if it means I'm never going to be in the inner circle because of all those pesky questions I ask, that's fine too.

[D-GenerationX]

And my original point was that while we might seem like hardass haters according to this site definition of the term, we ain't.

The reason we come here and talk about current events is that we still want to see the current band do well.  Most actual haters at the other boards want nothing of the kind.  They want to make thread after thread about reunions, Axl being fat, etc.

Not productive conversations.  Some can be funny, but not all the damn time.

[Ginger King]

Do you ever go to any other GNR forums but this one?  This is a serious question.  Because if you think someone like me or Ginger King represents true hardcore dissent and haterism, you are in for a world of shock, believe me.

So you are claiming to be innocent by a matter of degree? If you arent part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I question the validity of the "problem".

Look, anyone that chooses to post here knows the deal.  Its rah-rah all the time, sunshine and puppy dog tails, and just about zero dissent.  Its why so many of the online community refuses to come here.  These are not state secrets.

A guy like me, or a Ginger King, a sofine11, or any number of us...it puts us in a tough spot.  We are still interested in the current band and its future.  The only place such things are talked about in any sort of serious way is here.  So its here that we must come.

The tricky part is wanting to have those conversations while we are constantly forced to accepted a rather skewed version of reality and be constantly told we aren't real fans or hate our lives.  All because we don't just nod along and agree everything is awesome and we are the luckiest fans in the universe.

Ultimately, I like coming here, even despite the flack I take.  But if it means I'm never going to be in the inner circle because of all those pesky questions I ask, that's fine too.

This.  I do enjoy coming here.  It?s the only site I post on.  I have resisted posting on others, mainly because there?s a bit more (and by a bit more I mean 100% more) debauchery and non-productive conversations.  At times, some of it?s funny (like fart jokes are funny) but it?s a little too constant and can get pretty nasty.  D-X is right, if you think we?re Team Negative, I?d invite you to visit a couple other sites and see what many, many others have to say. 

But it?s definitely a double-edged sword because, by posting here, we?re constantly reminded what worthless fans we are, how our lives depend on GnR doing our personal bidding, and how we should find another favorite band.  Really?  Find another band?  Only true believers need apply?  That?s very Waco. 

It?s ironic because the only place in the world where I am not recognized as a real GnR fan is here. 

[GypsySoul]

The tricky part is wanting to have those conversations while we are constantly forced to accepted a rather skewed version of reality and be constantly told we aren't real fans or hate our lives.  All because we don't just nod along and agree everything is awesome and we are the luckiest fans in the universe.

IMO, you are the one with the skewed version of reality because the ONLY thing you want to talk about is an imminent release of new material that ONLY includes songs ENTIRELY written and performed ONLY by ALL the current guys.

There's a ton of "new" music we might be getting 'soon' but you don't want that because it wasn't written & performed by ONLY & ALL the current guys.

There's the 2012 LV residency DVD we got but you don't want that because it wasn't released with the format you want.  (which is surprising because up until the 2014 LV residency, you trashed every performance you've seen on youtube because you didn't like the 'audio' you heard from the guitars to the vocals.)

After three months of GNR touring & the residency, six of the eight guys have been touring with their solo bands.  You don't want to talk about their solo gigs because you ONLY want to talk about them ONLY doing GNR stuff.


You turn almost every thread into an argument about why GNR isn't giving you ONLY & EXACTLY what you want in the way you want it.

IMO, your attitude & posts make conversations here constrictive & combative NOT constructive.

[EmilyGNR]

Do you ever go to any other GNR forums but this one?  This is a serious question.  Because if you think someone like me or Ginger King represents true hardcore dissent and haterism, you are in for a world of shock, believe me.

So you are claiming to be innocent by a matter of degree? If you arent part of the solution you are part of the problem.

I question the validity of the "problem".

Look, anyone that chooses to post here knows the deal.  Its rah-rah all the time, sunshine and puppy dog tails, and just about zero dissent.  Its why so many of the online community refuses to come here.  These are not state secrets.

A guy like me, or a Ginger King, a sofine11, or any number of us...it puts us in a tough spot.  We are still interested in the current band and its future.  The only place such things are talked about in any sort of serious way is here.  So its here that we must come.

The tricky part is wanting to have those conversations while we are constantly forced to accepted a rather skewed version of reality and be constantly told we aren't real fans or hate our lives.  All because we don't just nod along and agree everything is awesome and we are the luckiest fans in the universe.

Ultimately, I like coming here, even despite the flack I take.  But if it means I'm never going to be in the inner circle because of all those pesky questions I ask, that's fine too.

Understood, but the constant voice of dissention and continual complaining about almost every aspect of the band honestly rubs me the wrong way and tends to lead me to group you with similar others like the hecklers, the righteous judgemental assholes and the poisoned toxic naysayers.

The criticisim and hatred generated by jealousy, envy, insecurity, inadequacy is a bitch and I'm not afraid to strike back and bitchslap those who are poisoned by it and choose to project and vent their frustrations and project their negativity onto the band.

I see the positives, I don't harbor misplaced entitlement issues and I don't expect GNR to operate on my expectations nor my schedule. I have seen some great shows through the years and I honestly don't see how mentally healthy and happy people derive some sort of perverse pleasure from bitching, whining, moaning and complaining about GNR at every opportunity.

That is my viewpoint.

[Ginger King]

But my point is?what is the basis of your opinion?  Is it your gut, blind faith, insider info, trust?  I am asking this seriously (and would hope to have a more productive discussion than I?m just a douche).

Not sure if you quoted & are addressing me by mistake (since you & EmilyGNR were the ones going back & forth) but I'll gladly give my serious, no name calling, opinion. 

This is the most stable lineup in the history of GnR, they?ve played countless number of shows all over the world?but have yet to release one song and (according to BBF) have yet to record one note or make any meaningful progress towards a new album. 

You?d think that such a stable lineup would be able to release an album.  That?s what leads me to believe new music/album is not a high priority for them (despite what they may say in interviews).  How could they not consider themselves a touring band if that?s the only thing they?ve ever done?  Why should they be looked at as anything but a touring band?  Actions speak louder than words.

Now, Axl?s recent interview gave me hope that perhaps the focus is shifting and they are going to be releasing something soon (anyone?s guess as to what ?soon? means).  There are positive signs for sure, but it?s not 100% perfect?they may have just lost their Co-Lead Guitarist?so  I?m not sure how one can credibly say all signs point to new music?I hope they do, but things aren?t exactly a beacon of clarity in GnR land.  Hope is the best you can do.  And it?s ok to acknowledge that things may be murky and uncertain?it doesn?t make you less of a fan.  Trust me.

I disagree with your opinion that "this is the most stable lineup in the history of GnR."  I really don't think GNR ever had a 'stable' lineup but if I had to pick one, I guess it would be the AFD lineup from Day 1 up until the day when they started to consider firing Steven.  Up to that point they were all probably on somewhat equally fucked-up/unstable ground hence making that equality the foundation of the "stability."  Once they started to recognize how disproportionate Steven's instability was even to their own, any semblance of stability was gone and, IMO, to this day is still in flux.

The 'current' lineup came into existence in 2009 when Dj joined so we've really got to give them a year or so after that to form a solid foundation to become a stable band.  Problem with that is by that point in time, Bumblefoot was already publicly voicing his displeasure about what he perceived to be what was wrong with how GNR was doing things.  Hardly makes for a stable band.

To your other point about writing and releasing music:  FIVE of the eight current members of GNR contributed to the writing of CD I and, it's reasonable to presume, these FIVE people also contributed to the writing of the CD II & CD III material that is more than likely what Axl was alluding to releasing soon.

So for this discussion, we have five of eight guys' past/present/future contributions already accounted for.  Now let's add Frank and Dj into the mix.  They can go the route of CD I and have them re-record the drum and guitar parts written by their predecessors for CD II & CD III OR they can add new drum & guitar parts written by them to existing songs in order to get something released "soon."  In the meantime, they can be writing stuff to be considered for CD IV.

That leaves Bumblefoot.  As I stated before, he's been publicly voicing his displeasure with how things are being done for quite some time now.  This, along with his stories about the altercations between him and other band members when he first joined the band, doesn't exactly make for a conducive atmosphere for stability or togetherness as a writing/recording/functioning band.   

With the mixed messages we're getting from Bumblefoot, it's hard to figure out where he fits into any scenario or even if he or they still want him to fit.

So it's my conclusion that at least seven of the eight band members are and consider themselves to be more than just a touring band.

And that is the basis of my opinion.

You raise some good points (it is conversations like these why I am here).  When I say this is the most stable lineup ever, I mean a couple things.  One, these guys seem (reasonably) sober and cohesive, and not hooked on the hard core drugs of the past.  Granted, the drug-fueled volatility brought us AFD, but clearly that lifestyle has a short shelf life.

Also, the current lineup has been the same since 2009, coming up on six years.  Not entirely sure, but that?s either as long (if not longer) than the AFD lineup was together (depending on when Steven left).

As 5 of the 8 current members contributed to the leftover CD songs, I would agree that you?d think they would all be interested in having that material released?but since more than a decade has passed and the songs have yet to see the light of day, I wonder how interested they are.

My point is if they really want to release it, they?d find a way.  They would work through whatever issues exist (record label, past member compensation, artwork for the booklet, proper promotion, etc.) and do it.  You think other bands don?t have issues with their labels, past members, marketing, etc.?  They find a way to work it out, but here it seems as though these issues are used as excuses why new music can?t be released, despite the band doing everything in their power to do so.  If Axl (and I do believe the buck starts and stops with him) wants to release new music, he?ll find a way to make it work.  His recent interview gives me hope that he?s interested in finding a way.

[EmilyGNR]

But my point is?what is the basis of your opinion?  Is it your gut, blind faith, insider info, trust?  I am asking this seriously (and would hope to have a more productive discussion than I?m just a douche).

Not sure if you quoted & are addressing me by mistake (since you & EmilyGNR were the ones going back & forth) but I'll gladly give my serious, no name calling, opinion. 

This is the most stable lineup in the history of GnR, they?ve played countless number of shows all over the world?but have yet to release one song and (according to BBF) have yet to record one note or make any meaningful progress towards a new album. 

You?d think that such a stable lineup would be able to release an album.  That?s what leads me to believe new music/album is not a high priority for them (despite what they may say in interviews).  How could they not consider themselves a touring band if that?s the only thing they?ve ever done?  Why should they be looked at as anything but a touring band?  Actions speak louder than words.

Now, Axl?s recent interview gave me hope that perhaps the focus is shifting and they are going to be releasing something soon (anyone?s guess as to what ?soon? means).  There are positive signs for sure, but it?s not 100% perfect?they may have just lost their Co-Lead Guitarist?so  I?m not sure how one can credibly say all signs point to new music?I hope they do, but things aren?t exactly a beacon of clarity in GnR land.  Hope is the best you can do.  And it?s ok to acknowledge that things may be murky and uncertain?it doesn?t make you less of a fan.  Trust me.

I disagree with your opinion that "this is the most stable lineup in the history of GnR."  I really don't think GNR ever had a 'stable' lineup but if I had to pick one, I guess it would be the AFD lineup from Day 1 up until the day when they started to consider firing Steven.  Up to that point they were all probably on somewhat equally fucked-up/unstable ground hence making that equality the foundation of the "stability."  Once they started to recognize how disproportionate Steven's instability was even to their own, any semblance of stability was gone and, IMO, to this day is still in flux.

The 'current' lineup came into existence in 2009 when Dj joined so we've really got to give them a year or so after that to form a solid foundation to become a stable band.  Problem with that is by that point in time, Bumblefoot was already publicly voicing his displeasure about what he perceived to be what was wrong with how GNR was doing things.  Hardly makes for a stable band.

To your other point about writing and releasing music:  FIVE of the eight current members of GNR contributed to the writing of CD I and, it's reasonable to presume, these FIVE people also contributed to the writing of the CD II & CD III material that is more than likely what Axl was alluding to releasing soon.

So for this discussion, we have five of eight guys' past/present/future contributions already accounted for.  Now let's add Frank and Dj into the mix.  They can go the route of CD I and have them re-record the drum and guitar parts written by their predecessors for CD II & CD III OR they can add new drum & guitar parts written by them to existing songs in order to get something released "soon."  In the meantime, they can be writing stuff to be considered for CD IV.

That leaves Bumblefoot.  As I stated before, he's been publicly voicing his displeasure with how things are being done for quite some time now.  This, along with his stories about the altercations between him and other band members when he first joined the band, doesn't exactly make for a conducive atmosphere for stability or togetherness as a writing/recording/functioning band.   

With the mixed messages we're getting from Bumblefoot, it's hard to figure out where he fits into any scenario or even if he or they still want him to fit.

So it's my conclusion that at least seven of the eight band members are and consider themselves to be more than just a touring band.

And that is the basis of my opinion.

You raise some good points (it is conversations like these why I am here).  When I say this is the most stable lineup ever, I mean a couple things.  One, these guys seem (reasonably) sober and cohesive, and not hooked on the hard core drugs of the past.  Granted, the drug-fueled volatility brought us AFD, but clearly that lifestyle has a short shelf life.

Also, the current lineup has been the same since 2009, coming up on six years.  Not entirely sure, but that?s either as long (if not longer) than the AFD lineup was together (depending on when Steven left).

As 5 of the 8 current members contributed to the leftover CD songs, I would agree that you?d think they would all be interested in having that material released?but since more than a decade has passed and the songs have yet to see the light of day, I wonder how interested they are.

My point is if they really want to release it, they?d find a way.  They would work through whatever issues exist (record label, past member compensation, artwork for the booklet, proper promotion, etc.) and do it.  You think other bands don?t have issues with their labels, past members, marketing, etc.?  They find a way to work it out, but here it seems as though these issues are used as excuses why new music can?t be released, despite the band doing everything in their power to do so.  If Axl (and I do believe the buck starts and stops with him) wants to release new music, he?ll find a way to make it work.  His recent interview gives me hope that he?s interested in finding a way.

" My point is if they really want to release it, they?d find a way.  They would work through whatever issues exist (record label, past member compensation, artwork for the booklet, proper promotion, etc.) and do it"

- Maybe it has taken some time to iron out all difficulties and pave the way for an optimum release-

"You think other bands don?t have issues with their labels, past members, marketing, etc.?  They find a way to work it out"

-who said or thinks that other bands don't have problems? Why is the issues other bands have in any way relevant to this band?-

"but here it seems as though these issues are used as excuses why new music can?t be released, despite the band doing everything in their power to do so"

-why do you feel that these reasons are only excuses and somehow just employed to foul up your personal ideal idea of a release schedule?-

" If Axl (and I do believe the buck starts and stops with him) wants to release new music, he?ll find a way to make it work.  His recent interview gives me hope that he?s interested in finding a way."

- Yes the recent interviews with most of the band members indicates that new music is being looked at, I dont think optimisim is unwarranted, it's all good!

[EmilyGNR]

Sometimes I think some of these folks would be happier if a day went by where no one posted about anything.

Speculation?  Dangerous and ill informed. 

Criticism?  Get out of here with that. 

Show reviews?  Only if you can produce a ticket stub.

Enjoy the silence.  Its fucking golden.

Everything that is in agreement with your personal desires seems true to you everything that does not line up catapults you into a catechism of criticisms and complaints.

You have a strong case of the "shoulds" and "musts" for others, you have so far attempted to use humor and implied intimidation to try and  get your way and justify your statements and validate your views, both have proven futile and ineffective.

If you find this band so disappointing and unfufilling why not go find one that makes you happy?
Healthy and happy people dont continually focus on negatives, and exhibit toxic behavior.

I probably hate my job, my family...hell, my life, really.  That should be obvious from the way I ask why it takes 10 years to record an rock album.  

If there is another reason someone would say such a thing other than the fact they have a daily struggle to keep the gun out of their mouth...I am unaware of it.

Repeated attempts at dismissive sarcastic humor, you would do well not to quit your day job.
Perhaps I would view you as being more genuinely interested and sincere about this band if you werent posting disparaging and snarky comments on other forums.

[D-GenerationX]

IMO, you are the one with the skewed version of reality because the ONLY thing you want to talk about is an imminent release of new material that ONLY includes songs ENTIRELY written and performed ONLY by ALL the current guys.

No, I'd just consider that the best case scenario and the one that makes the most logical sense.

But its not going to happen.  If we even get another album, I know it will be songs from 10-12 years ago featuring guys long gone.

But I'll take it.  It may not be my preferred outcome, but I'm not so married to that outcome I'd take a hard line and say I'd rather have nothing.

That's silly.

[D-GenerationX]

My point is if they really want to release it, they?d find a way.  They would work through whatever issues exist (record label, past member compensation, artwork for the booklet, proper promotion, etc.) and do it.  You think other bands don?t have issues with their labels, past members, marketing, etc.?  They find a way to work it out, but here it seems as though these issues are used as excuses why new music can?t be released, despite the band doing everything in their power to do so.  If Axl (and I do believe the buck starts and stops with him) wants to release new music, he?ll find a way to make it work.  His recent interview gives me hope that he?s interested in finding a way.

I in no way think he's moving heaven and earth to get a new release out.  That he's trying his damndest, but keep getting thwarted by that evil label, lawyers, what have you.

I'd say it like you just did.  If he was truly focused and dedicated to getting something out, he finds a way.  He has not found that way.

And I have trouble with the narrative he's a fighter that never gives up when it looks, by appearances anyway, that he's thrown up his hands and given up.

But that interview changed that outlook for me.  I thought Axl's interview was the most positive bit of GNR news in 5 years.  Hope has been restored.

[D-GenerationX]

Repeated attempts at dismissive sarcastic humor, you would do well not to quit your day job.
Perhaps I would view you as being more genuinely interested and sincere about this band if you werent posting disparaging and snarky comments on other forums.

I tone it way down around here and try and color within the lines.  Know your audience.

Jarmo has pretty reasonable letting me speak my mind, despite the fact he seems like he'd rather set me on fucking fire a lot of the time  I'm not going to piss all over that by being the smartass I am in all other phases of life.

You, on the other hand, could lighten up some.  Its just a rock band.  Its not a religion.

[EmilyGNR]

Repeated attempts at dismissive sarcastic humor, you would do well not to quit your day job.
Perhaps I would view you as being more genuinely interested and sincere about this band if you werent posting disparaging and snarky comments on other forums.

I tone it way down around here and try and color within the lines.  Know your audience.

Jarmo has pretty reasonable letting me speak my mind, despite the fact he seems like he'd rather set me on fucking fire a lot of the time  I'm not going to piss all over that by being the smartass I am in all other phases of life.

You, on the other hand, could lighten up some.  Its just a rock band.  Its not a religion.

When people tell me to "lighten up" or "just get over it", I find it insulting and rude.  After all, they are basically telling me that my feelings/concerns are of little importance.

I have the right to address people who are making crap statements about GNRs as well as the stupid careless statements that play off either exhausted old stereotypes, wrong or assumed false information or personal predjudices without being told to "lighten up."

I care enough to actually put myself out there, face criticism and educate myself and others. I don?t care if I annoy people, or they want me to just be quiet and let them be comfortably ignorant and silent. I?m never going to ?lighten up.?? I?m just getting started.

Nobody except you is actually comparing a band with a religion.

[Ginger King]

Repeated attempts at dismissive sarcastic humor, you would do well not to quit your day job.
Perhaps I would view you as being more genuinely interested and sincere about this band if you werent posting disparaging and snarky comments on other forums.

I tone it way down around here and try and color within the lines.  Know your audience.

Jarmo has pretty reasonable letting me speak my mind, despite the fact he seems like he'd rather set me on fucking fire a lot of the time  I'm not going to piss all over that by being the smartass I am in all other phases of life.

You, on the other hand, could lighten up some.  Its just a rock band.  Its not a religion.

When people tell me to "lighten up" or "just get over it", I find it insulting and rude.  After all, they are basically telling me that my feelings/concerns are of little importance.

I have the right to address people who are making crap statements about GNRs as well as the stupid careless statements that play off either exhausted old stereotypes, wrong or assumed false information or personal predjudices without being told to "lighten up."

I care enough to actually put myself out there, face criticism and educate myself and others. I don?t care if I annoy people, or they want me to just be quiet and let them be comfortably ignorant and silent. I?m never going to ?lighten up.?? I?m just getting started.

Nobody except you is actually comparing a band with a religion.

I don?t think he?s comparing GnR to religion, but rather analogizing your devotion to them.  You do seem to have a holier than thou approach to GnR, are quick (and harsh) to judge others that don?t follow along with your beliefs, and continue to profess that the right way is whatever the band does, and that the band is, at all times, beyond reproach.  Kind of textbook definition of religious zealot.  I?m guessing you disagree. 

[mortismurphy]

Forums concern discussions and discussion necessitates, a certain degree of consent and dissent. A fanbase which merely, agrees and supports their chosen band would be tedious in the extreme. I do not really post here too much because, I, I suppose, possess an opinion that is too critical (of new guns) for this place - and absolutely loath censorship. In my opinion though, a fan who criticises a band - in a fairly objective and non pejorative fashion - is the superior fan (to a blind worshiper). It takes a superior fan to be that passionate about a subject and to know their subject so well, that they know when that said subject gets it, wholly wrong. Did Beatles fans unilaterally applaud Let it Be? Did Metallica fans unanimously love St Anger and support Lars's Napster tirade? No way did they. No way. It only seems to be Guns N' Roses fans who have this problem with, support, and dissent, freedom and censorship - much of it emanates from the man and Team Brazil itself of course (Axl seems to like to surround himself with people who only support him).

Ask yourself this: if you are faced with two positive - but, slightly different - reviews of an album (let's say, Chinese Democracy), one by a critical fan, and one by a blind supporter, whose review would you be more impressed with? A blind supporter is naturally going to love everything and agree with everything - is this the sort of review people would be impressed with, here?

[GypsySoul]

In my opinion though, a fan who criticises a band - in a fairly objective and non pejorative fashion - is the superior fan (to a blind worshiper).  It takes a superior fan to be that passionate about a subject and to know their subject so well, that they know when that said subject gets it, wholly wrong.

That's all well and good.  Only problem is that in the GNR forum world  "fairly objective and non pejorative" fans are so rare they are almost nonexistent.

As bad as blind worship is, so are those who criticize just to criticize and so are those who make personal attacks against the band and each other.

Some "fans" seem to be so set in seeing everything in a negative light that they bring that same negative criticism into every topic (thread).

Yes there are definitely GNR fans who fall into the "blind worship" category BUT it's absurd to label the critics "superior" especially when the topics are often about stuff that none of us have any real "inside" information on.   

And some "fans" come to HTGTH to deliberately post over-the-top negative shit or to break the site rules because they know the reaction it will get. 


P.S.  I had to look up what "pejorative" means. 

[EmilyGNR]

Repeated attempts at dismissive sarcastic humor, you would do well not to quit your day job.
Perhaps I would view you as being more genuinely interested and sincere about this band if you werent posting disparaging and snarky comments on other forums.

I tone it way down around here and try and color within the lines.  Know your audience.

Jarmo has pretty reasonable letting me speak my mind, despite the fact he seems like he'd rather set me on fucking fire a lot of the time  I'm not going to piss all over that by being the smartass I am in all other phases of life.

You, on the other hand, could lighten up some.  Its just a rock band.  Its not a religion.

When people tell me to "lighten up" or "just get over it", I find it insulting and rude.  After all, they are basically telling me that my feelings/concerns are of little importance.

I have the right to address people who are making crap statements about GNRs as well as the stupid careless statements that play off either exhausted old stereotypes, wrong or assumed false information or personal predjudices without being told to "lighten up."

I care enough to actually put myself out there, face criticism and educate myself and others. I don?t care if I annoy people, or they want me to just be quiet and let them be comfortably ignorant and silent. I?m never going to ?lighten up.?? I?m just getting started.

Nobody except you is actually comparing a band with a religion.

I don?t think he?s comparing GnR to religion, but rather analogizing your devotion to them.  You do seem to have a holier than thou approach to GnR, are quick (and harsh) to judge others that don?t follow along with your beliefs, and continue to profess that the right way is whatever the band does, and that the band is, at all times, beyond reproach.  Kind of textbook definition of religious zealot.  I?m guessing you disagree. 

I gathered as much connotation from mentioned statement, however I was dealing in denotation, I cant know for sure what was meant or intended-merely what was actually said.

Feel free to label me any way you must, I prefer to say things online that I wouldn't be ashamed or hesitant to say in person.

Accountability for one's words  shouldn't be thwarted by the anonimity of the internet