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Author Topic: Donald Trump & 2016 Election  (Read 226778 times)
damnthehaters
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« Reply #2880 on: May 25, 2019, 04:11:39 AM »

I’m confused.  What is that exactly?  You guys are now trying to make fun of a piece of paper with chicken scratch notes on it?   Roll Eyes.
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« Reply #2881 on: May 25, 2019, 06:01:44 AM »

I think people are concerned about his health. Mental and/or physical....




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« Reply #2882 on: May 25, 2019, 06:43:11 AM »

Trump approves $8bn Saudi weapons sale over Iran tensions


US President Donald Trump is approving the sale of billions of dollars' worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia, citing Iranian threats to its arch rival.

Mr Trump invoked a rarely used aspect of federal law to push through the $8bn (£6bn) deal - bypassing Congress.

He did so by declaring that ongoing tensions with Iran amounted to a national emergency.

The move has angered those who fear the weapons may be used against civilians in Yemen by Saudi-led forces.

Some Democrats accused the president of bypassing Congress because the sale of weapons - including precision-guided bombs - would have been strongly opposed on Capitol Hill.

Weapons will also reportedly be sold to the United Arab Emirates and Jordan.

Members of Congress have heavily criticised Saudi Arabia's human rights record over its role in the Yemen conflict and for the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last October.

Full story: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48404923





/jarmo

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« Reply #2883 on: May 25, 2019, 08:37:50 AM »

Who else writes in big black Sharpie like a child?  rofl rofl

That is an impeachable offense, we need an investigation on where he bought the sharpie , how much he paid for it, did he claim the purchase on his taxes and when did he use this sharpie.  Grin
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 08:39:34 AM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #2884 on: May 26, 2019, 12:56:34 AM »

Who else writes in big black Sharpie like a child?  rofl rofl

That is an impeachable offense, we need an investigation on where he bought the sharpie , how much he paid for it, did he claim the purchase on his taxes and when did he use this sharpie.  Grin

You know what, I chuckled at that. Well done.  beer
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« Reply #2885 on: May 29, 2019, 04:59:09 PM »

Trump supporters are sure quiet today after Mueller's presser. 😁
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« Reply #2886 on: May 29, 2019, 05:29:40 PM »

Trump supporters are sure quiet today after Mueller's presser. 😁


You know how it works:


And we are not commenting on the guilt or innocence of any specific defendant. Every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in court.

And

As set forth in our report, after that investigation, if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

Leads to: No collusion. Case closed, Trump is 100% innocent.






/jarmo


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« Reply #2887 on: May 29, 2019, 09:22:25 PM »

Trump supporters are sure quiet today after Mueller's presser. 😁


You know how it works:


And we are not commenting on the guilt or innocence of any specific defendant. Every defendant is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in court.

And

As set forth in our report, after that investigation, if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

Leads to: No collusion. Case closed, Trump is 100% innocent.






/jarmo




Mueller all but said Trump obstructed justice, and they suspect thats why they were not able to find evidence of conspiracy.

Trumpers will try to spin and spin and spin it anyway they can.  But that's what he said.  He did not say "if a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation". He said

Quote
When a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators, it strikes at the core of their government’s effort to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable.

It's very apparent that Mueller believes Trump obstructed justice, intended his report to lay that out, and for Congress to take up the case since he couldn't, he felt, legally indict a sitting president. Again, he very clearly said that if they thought the President had not committed a crime, they would have said so.  They didn't.

That's what he said. Succinctly, directly, and clearly.  To anyone that is not swinging from Trumps nuts.

On top of all that, William Barr lied to Congress. First in his letter, then in his testimony to Congress. He didn't mispeak. Didn't exagerate.  Didn't misunderstand Mueller and the report.  He flat out lied to congress (and to the American people).  He should be charged and, quite frankly, he should resign.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 09:27:50 PM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #2888 on: May 29, 2019, 09:55:00 PM »

This is an absolutely disgusting way to treat a war hero, and the men who serve on a vessel that bears his name:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470?mod=e2tw

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White House Wanted USS John McCain ‘Out of Sight’ During Trump Japan Visit
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« Reply #2889 on: May 29, 2019, 11:47:27 PM »

This is an absolutely disgusting way to treat a war hero, and the men who serve on a vessel that bears his name:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470?mod=e2tw

Quote
White House Wanted USS John McCain ‘Out of Sight’ During Trump Japan Visit
Every day it gets worse, each more despicable actions then the day before.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 01:58:53 AM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #2890 on: May 30, 2019, 01:19:03 AM »

This is an absolutely disgusting way to treat a war hero, and the men who serve on a vessel that bears his name:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-wanted-uss-john-mccain-out-of-sight-during-trump-japan-visit-11559173470?mod=e2tw

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White House Wanted USS John McCain ‘Out of Sight’ During Trump Japan Visit

If that were Obama he would be impeached by the next day at noon.
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« Reply #2891 on: May 30, 2019, 04:26:57 PM »

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« Reply #2892 on: May 30, 2019, 05:16:24 PM »

So Trump still is not guilty of collusion.  Maybe obstruction.  But Mueller left that up to the DOJ.   

I'm curious to see what is yielded in the investigation of the back story. 

Anyone find it interesting that Mueller wont take a single question from reporters let alone congress?

 
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 05:25:35 PM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #2893 on: May 30, 2019, 07:33:37 PM »

That was his only option really, since he abides by the DOJ ruling a sitting president can't be indicted. That's why the Constitution gives power of impeachment to the other two branches.

I expect nothing truthful to come from that. Barr is a Trump lackey.

At least not publicly he won't. I wish he would but i think he just wants to leave it up to Congress and the Senate now.
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« Reply #2894 on: May 30, 2019, 07:51:53 PM »

What about coming to a conclusion or making recommendations?  Seems a bit bizarre.

One thing we know for sure is that Mueller does not want to be asked questions about anything. Which I think pisses off both sides of the aisle.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 07:53:25 PM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #2895 on: May 30, 2019, 08:11:18 PM »

So Trump still is not guilty of collusion.  Maybe obstruction.  But Mueller left that up to the DOJ.   

I'm curious to see what is yielded in the investigation of the back story. 

Anyone find it interesting that Mueller wont take a single question from reporters let alone congress?
 

No, he left it up to CONGRESS. And he clearly said he thinks one of the reasons they were unable to gather enough evidence for conspiracy was the obstruction. The man was lawyerly, but certainly clear on that front.  See the quote in my last post.

He also clearly said, yesterday, he believes the DOJ has no role in the process because they can't indict a sitting president.

Mueller wants his report to be his testimony to Congress. It's clear he believes that, as a member of of the DOJ, who can't indict (and thus can't provide a forum of fair justice), he shouldn't be saying any more.

Like it or not, he's going to end up in front of congress at some point.
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« Reply #2896 on: May 30, 2019, 08:16:52 PM »

What about coming to a conclusion or making recommendations?  Seems a bit bizarre.

One thing we know for sure is that Mueller does not want to be asked questions about anything. Which I think pisses off both sides of the aisle.

Not bizarre. Principled.

He isn't making accusations, because he can't present them in a forum (ie: court) where the President can defend himself.  As a member of the DOJ, he feels making an accusation, without providing a forum for justice, violates principals and DOJ rules.

But he also said IF they could ACTUALLY clear the president of wrong doing, they would say so.

They didn't, in either case. And yesterday, even parsing words, he made it pretty clear he feels there WAS wrongdoing when it comes to obstruction, without actually SAYING it, outright.

They said they lack sufficient evidence on conspiracy.  And the report clearly makes that determination is in light of the obstruction. as well as the inability to get certain individuals to testify, or provide truthful testimony. "Just because we could not find the evidence does not mean it does not exist".  Right in the report.

I agree it's frustrating. But he clearly feels the remediation goes through congress.  And his testimony outside what's in the report would taint that process.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2019, 08:18:46 PM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #2897 on: May 31, 2019, 08:18:24 AM »

What I am finding odd in all of this is if Mueller made a decision on collusion, why couldn't he on obstruction? 

 He could have said there was enough that was found in the investigation for an obstruction case and left it at that. Then it goes to the AG. At that point if Barr declined to go further then there'd be no denying that the AG was biased.

A lot of unanswered questions left on the table with all of this. And Mueller wants to not answer for anything.  He stirred the pot and now goes into hiding.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 08:24:07 AM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #2898 on: May 31, 2019, 10:22:40 AM »

What I am finding odd in all of this is if Mueller made a decision on collusion, why couldn't he on obstruction?

No he didn't.

What he said was they couldn't find enough evidence of conspiracy to meet the burden of proof that would be required to indict. And then the report refers to section 2 (aka the section on obstruction), directly.  It clearly says they feel that one of the reasons they couldn't find the evidence of coordination was due to the obstructing of the investigation.

Also, there is no crime called collusion.  So "no collusion" is just a tag line.  Mueller didn't address collusion, because it's not a legally defined thing that can result in an indictable crime.

For there to be a conspiracy, they need evidence of COORDINATED efforts between the two parties, and while there are interactions between the Trump campaign and the Russians that are concerning, they couldn't find evidence that the mutually beneficial acts they took were done in a COORDINATED manner. 

And here's the thing: If they HAD found enough evidence to alledge conspiracy, it would have been treated just like obstruction was.  They would have punted it to congress, laying out the case, but making no conclusions.

Really, man....you gotta read the report if you haven't already.  It clears up a lot of this stuff, and you're asking SOME questions that it addresses.

As an aside: He "couldn't on obstruction" because he sees obvious evidence of wrongdoing.  With conspiracy, he could cite a lack of evidence (which isn't the same as saying it didn't happen).

Again, the tag line "No Collusion. No Obstruction." is a lie that this report destroys if you read it.

Quote
He could have said there was enough that was found in the investigation for an obstruction case and left it at that. Then it goes to the AG. At that point if Barr declined to go further then there'd be no denying that the AG was biased.

No, he can't.

Because, since the DOJ can't indict the sitting president, the DOJ has no place in making a recommendation, or forming a conclusion.  That's left to congress.  All they can do is lay out the facts of the case and say "We can't clear him of wrongdoing".

That's Muellers read on the Justice Department opinion that you can't indict a sitting president.

If DOJ can't indict, they can't accuse.  And forming conclusions would, in this case, have been akin to an accusation.  That's what he's saying: I couldn't form conclusions because, if I did, I'd be accusing the sitting president of obstruction.  Since I can't indict, and give the president a forum to defend himself, I therefore can't conclude, either, because it is akin to accusation.  The DOJ has, really, formed a very narrow box when viewed through principal and Mueller is unwilling to get out of that box.

I know you have to jump through some logical hoops on this one, but that's why he did what he did, and it's why he's saying what he's saying.

Quote
A lot of unanswered questions left on the table with all of this. And Mueller wants to not answer for anything.  He stirred the pot and now goes into hiding.

He's trying to goad congress into doing their job.  He wants CONGRESS to answer those questions via impeachment hearings, because he feels the DOJ can't without essentially leveling a legal accusation at someone who has no forum for defense/remediation (since they can't indict him).

« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 10:30:47 AM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #2899 on: May 31, 2019, 11:08:04 AM »

IMO i think the democrats are clearly afraid impeaching him would backfire. Which certainly could happen but it could also go in their favor in 2020. Their responsibility though is country first and party second.
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