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Author Topic: Donald Trump & 2016 Election  (Read 168593 times)
tim_m
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« Reply #3700 on: February 07, 2020, 06:28:48 PM »

https://www.axios.com/iowa-caucus-phone-line-pro-trump-trolls-72996dc7-6548-4219-a566-5f1c9d382895.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100

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« Reply #3701 on: February 07, 2020, 08:24:34 PM »

Trial over.  What a waste of time and money.


In a sense, yes, in another sense no....

Waste of time and money because everyone knew the Republicans didn't think there were any wrongdoings. So the outcome wasn't a surprise.

On the other hand, a president needs to be held accountable for his actions. You can't just ask foreign nations for help to win elections. Not how a democracy is supposed to work. A lot of shady stuff happens all the time, but in this case it was out in the open... So something had to be done.

/jarmo


I'd argue in every sense "no".

Better to stand up for what's right, and lose, than to turn a blind eye to potential lawlessness and abuses of power.  The outcome was never in doubt....but the process needed to happen.  I don't think you can argue that going through the process is EVER a waste of time and money.  And if you think it is....again, I would think that person would also have to have been violently against the Clinton impeachment...since he, too, wasn't removed from office.  In this case, with this process, outcome can't entirely define it's value.

The only people disputing there was wrongdoing are the ones totally in the tank for Trump.  The ones who make excuses time after time after time, no matter what he does.

The ones who, as he said, would vote for him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th avenue.  I'm pretty sure this isn't hyperbole anymore, if it ever was.

There was more then enough evidence. The House did things the right way. The Repubs who complain it was too fast would likewise have complained if it dragged on into the spring, because it would have been too slow.  No matter what process the House adopted, they would have found something to bitch about, to try to delegitimize it.  His supporters weren't going to accept any outcome that showed there was wrongdoing, no matter what the evidence said, and no matter what the timeline was.  That's the simple truth.

And the White House refused to comply with subpeonas, so I'm not sure what more the house could do in their phase of the investigation (not trial...you know, where witnesses and evidence are supposed to appear).  They could have fought that process through the courts (where they'd already won a couple decisions on this front), but then the investigation would have likely dragged on through summer, and Repubs would bitch that it was taking too long and effecting the election.

The fact is, there was one bipartisan contingent this week, and that contingent voted that Trump was Guilty.  The Repubs were NEVER going to vote, en masse, to remove their boi.  Because to them, party power is more important than the country, and its institutions (which they've spent 3 years butchering to ensure they can stay in power).

Its apparent that no matter what this president does, no matter what laws he breaks, no matter how badly he behaves....his supporters refuse to acknowledge it or act to stop him.  They want an autocrat.  They prefer party over country.  And their identity is so tied to their support for this guy, they will not/can not admit any wrongdoing (or even him BEING wrong).  It hurts their feelings too much to consider they voted for a bad president.

Even the ones that admit he did something wrong and they say he learned his lesson are changing what they're saying, look at Collins she went from lesson learned to I hope he did. They're so in on this got, so terrified what he could do to their cushy jobs that they can't see the forest through the trees. At least one had the guts to stand up to Trump. I don't agree with Romney on issues but I've never questioned his integrity. It reminds me of a movie quote from the movie Dave. I ought to care more about doing where right then what's popular, and if not maybe I shouldn't have this job in the first place. Remember when the investigation started, Pelosi said doing what's right is worth losing the house.


Also, I want to make this abundantly clear, I will not mince words. If we were sitting here talking about Obama having done this and we had all this evidence to show it, I would 100% support impeachment, conviction and removal because right matters. Nobody is above the law, not even the president regardless of party affiliation.

Don't know you so have no reason to doubt your sincerity on this but if you believe that the Democratic House would have went through that show if it were a Democratic president in office - you are not being very realistic.

Same with Republicans on the Benghazi thing - they never would have went after a Republican Sec of State in the same way they did Hillary.

It's all about wielding your political power when you have it.

Blow up the 2 party system already
« Last Edit: February 07, 2020, 08:26:16 PM by COMAMOTIVE » Logged
tim_m
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« Reply #3702 on: February 07, 2020, 10:59:46 PM »

Trial over.  What a waste of time and money.


In a sense, yes, in another sense no....

Waste of time and money because everyone knew the Republicans didn't think there were any wrongdoings. So the outcome wasn't a surprise.

On the other hand, a president needs to be held accountable for his actions. You can't just ask foreign nations for help to win elections. Not how a democracy is supposed to work. A lot of shady stuff happens all the time, but in this case it was out in the open... So something had to be done.

/jarmo


I'd argue in every sense "no".

Better to stand up for what's right, and lose, than to turn a blind eye to potential lawlessness and abuses of power.  The outcome was never in doubt....but the process needed to happen.  I don't think you can argue that going through the process is EVER a waste of time and money.  And if you think it is....again, I would think that person would also have to have been violently against the Clinton impeachment...since he, too, wasn't removed from office.  In this case, with this process, outcome can't entirely define it's value.

The only people disputing there was wrongdoing are the ones totally in the tank for Trump.  The ones who make excuses time after time after time, no matter what he does.

The ones who, as he said, would vote for him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th avenue.  I'm pretty sure this isn't hyperbole anymore, if it ever was.

There was more then enough evidence. The House did things the right way. The Repubs who complain it was too fast would likewise have complained if it dragged on into the spring, because it would have been too slow.  No matter what process the House adopted, they would have found something to bitch about, to try to delegitimize it.  His supporters weren't going to accept any outcome that showed there was wrongdoing, no matter what the evidence said, and no matter what the timeline was.  That's the simple truth.

And the White House refused to comply with subpeonas, so I'm not sure what more the house could do in their phase of the investigation (not trial...you know, where witnesses and evidence are supposed to appear).  They could have fought that process through the courts (where they'd already won a couple decisions on this front), but then the investigation would have likely dragged on through summer, and Repubs would bitch that it was taking too long and effecting the election.

The fact is, there was one bipartisan contingent this week, and that contingent voted that Trump was Guilty.  The Repubs were NEVER going to vote, en masse, to remove their boi.  Because to them, party power is more important than the country, and its institutions (which they've spent 3 years butchering to ensure they can stay in power).

Its apparent that no matter what this president does, no matter what laws he breaks, no matter how badly he behaves....his supporters refuse to acknowledge it or act to stop him.  They want an autocrat.  They prefer party over country.  And their identity is so tied to their support for this guy, they will not/can not admit any wrongdoing (or even him BEING wrong).  It hurts their feelings too much to consider they voted for a bad president.

Even the ones that admit he did something wrong and they say he learned his lesson are changing what they're saying, look at Collins she went from lesson learned to I hope he did. They're so in on this got, so terrified what he could do to their cushy jobs that they can't see the forest through the trees. At least one had the guts to stand up to Trump. I don't agree with Romney on issues but I've never questioned his integrity. It reminds me of a movie quote from the movie Dave. I ought to care more about doing where right then what's popular, and if not maybe I shouldn't have this job in the first place. Remember when the investigation started, Pelosi said doing what's right is worth losing the house.


Also, I want to make this abundantly clear, I will not mince words. If we were sitting here talking about Obama having done this and we had all this evidence to show it, I would 100% support impeachment, conviction and removal because right matters. Nobody is above the law, not even the president regardless of party affiliation.

Don't know you so have no reason to doubt your sincerity on this but if you believe that the Democratic House would have went through that show if it were a Democratic president in office - you are not being very realistic.

Same with Republicans on the Benghazi thing - they never would have went after a Republican Sec of State in the same way they did Hillary.

It's all about wielding your political power when you have it.

Blow up the 2 party system already
Probably true but i would sure hope otherwise. This was the first ever bipartisan vote in a senate impeachment trial. It was only one Republican but hey maybe there's hope. This likely would've been the second if Nixon had stood trial instead of resigning because the Republicans did finally turn on him after the white house tapes.

Or we could go back to the system of picking senators that our founders intended instead of how we do now electing them.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 03:26:58 AM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #3703 on: February 11, 2020, 04:44:45 PM »

Pilferk, you are a fucking saint. Dealing with these disingenuous trolls with such class and poise as you do is remarkable.
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tim_m
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« Reply #3704 on: February 11, 2020, 09:33:10 PM »

Try and tell me there's nothing wrong with the, I dare you.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/barr-takes-control-legal-matters-interest-trump-including-stone-sentencing-n1135231?cid=sm_npd_nn_fb_ma

https://www.axios.com/justice-department-roger-stone-sentencing-change-71e4253f-624a-465e-95b9-ea270faadfc6.html?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=organic&utm_content=1100
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pilferk
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« Reply #3705 on: February 12, 2020, 07:23:05 AM »


I'll just quote myself here:

Quote
The only people disputing there was wrongdoing are the ones totally in the tank for Trump.  The ones who make excuses time after time after time, no matter what he does.

The ones who, as he said, would vote for him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th avenue.  I'm pretty sure this isn't hyperbole anymore, if it ever was.

The executive branch putting their thumb on the scale, to help out their cronies, is clearly, ethically wrong.  To do it in the manner they did/are undermines the independence of the 3rd branch of government.

Now, we'll see how the judge responds.  Wouldn't surprise me if she gave Stone 7 years, and rebuked the involvement of Barr and his aides.

Barr needs to be VERY careful here.  He's treading on thin ice in terms of the ACTUAL Legal Bar and violations of their code of ethics.
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« Reply #3706 on: February 12, 2020, 05:49:15 PM »

Ludicrous indeed

Still haven't figured Barr out.
Didn't come into this post as some pro-Trump lapdog either.

Interviews I've seen show him to be quite intelligent too - so I don't quite get a lot of his decisions thus far.

Case in point.
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Senator Blutarsky
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« Reply #3707 on: February 12, 2020, 06:09:07 PM »

Pilferk, you are a fucking saint. Dealing with these disingenuous trolls with such class and poise as you do is remarkable.

The guy doesn't need a bigger ego  hihi
« Last Edit: February 12, 2020, 06:22:34 PM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #3708 on: February 12, 2020, 09:52:24 PM »

And we also have him accepting dirt dug up by Rudy by by shady people in Ukraine. Rudy is not a government official, has no security clearance. I mean what in the hell banana republic shit is this?
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tim_m
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« Reply #3709 on: February 12, 2020, 09:55:17 PM »


I'll just quote myself here:

Quote
The only people disputing there was wrongdoing are the ones totally in the tank for Trump.  The ones who make excuses time after time after time, no matter what he does.

The ones who, as he said, would vote for him if he shot someone in the middle of 5th avenue.  I'm pretty sure this isn't hyperbole anymore, if it ever was.

The executive branch putting their thumb on the scale, to help out their cronies, is clearly, ethically wrong.  To do it in the manner they did/are undermines the independence of the 3rd branch of government.

Now, we'll see how the judge responds.  Wouldn't surprise me if she gave Stone 7 years, and rebuked the involvement of Barr and his aides.

Barr needs to be VERY careful here.  He's treading on thin ice in terms of the ACTUAL Legal Bar and violations of their code of ethics.

It's not just Barr, Trump is injecting himself into this too. This buffoon hasn't learned anything. If he's not impeached again before November it'll be a miracle.
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« Reply #3710 on: February 12, 2020, 10:25:46 PM »

Pilferk, you are a fucking saint. Dealing with these disingenuous trolls with such class and poise as you do is remarkable.

The guy doesn't need a bigger ego  hihi

Way to prove the point, troll. He does nothing but calmly lay out the facts. He has never once made a personal attack or boasted about himself. Your TDS is rotting your brain.
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Senator Blutarsky
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« Reply #3711 on: February 13, 2020, 05:40:03 PM »

Pilferk, you are a fucking saint. Dealing with these disingenuous trolls with such class and poise as you do is remarkable.

The guy doesn't need a bigger ego  hihi

Way to prove the point, troll. He does nothing but calmly lay out the facts. He has never once made a personal attack or boasted about himself. Your TDS is rotting your brain.


Troll? C'mon man. You could use to lighten up just a tad.  This isn't Facebook or Twitter.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 07:43:29 PM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #3712 on: February 14, 2020, 01:12:16 AM »


Troll? C'mon man. You could use to lighten up just a tad.  This isn't Facebook or Twitter.

Proving the point further by using the classic belittling "lighten up".
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« Reply #3713 on: February 18, 2020, 05:55:00 PM »

Unemployment rate Bush’s last full month: 7.2%

Unemployment rate Obama’s last full month: 4.7%

Current unemployment rate: 3.6%

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Obama: 4

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Trump: 0
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« Reply #3714 on: February 19, 2020, 01:53:13 PM »

Unemployment rate Bush’s last full month: 7.2%

Unemployment rate Obama’s last full month: 4.7%

Current unemployment rate: 3.6%

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Obama: 4

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Trump: 0


What a president does over the course of a year or entire term is a much better indicator than one quarter.  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 02:14:38 PM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3715 on: February 19, 2020, 01:56:18 PM »


Troll? C'mon man. You could use to lighten up just a tad.  This isn't Facebook or Twitter.

Proving the point further by using the classic belittling "lighten up".


He calls you out for your continued personal attacks and hate....and you try to spin his “lighten up” comment as “belittling”?  You are something else man. No, it doesn’t work that way.  
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 10:29:23 AM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3716 on: February 19, 2020, 08:13:49 PM »

Unemployment rate Bush’s last full month: 7.2%

Unemployment rate Obama’s last full month: 4.7%

Current unemployment rate: 3.6%

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Obama: 4

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Trump: 0


What a president does over the course of a year or entire term is a much better indicator than one quarter.  

You do know that you literally just proved his point for him, right?

 rofl
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 08:18:07 PM by pilferk » Logged

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« Reply #3717 on: February 19, 2020, 08:55:52 PM »

Unemployment rate Bush’s last full month: 7.2%

Unemployment rate Obama’s last full month: 4.7%

Current unemployment rate: 3.6%

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Obama: 4

Times US hit 4% quarterly GDP growth under Trump: 0


What a president does over the course of a year or entire term is a much better indicator than one quarter.  

You do know that you literally just proved his point for him, right?

 rofl

What point is that Pilferk?  

One of the things he pointed out was that Obama hit 4% 4 times and Trump 0.  Trying to paint a picture like Obama has done so much better....correct?  
« Last Edit: February 19, 2020, 09:27:14 PM by damnthehaters » Logged

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« Reply #3718 on: February 21, 2020, 05:00:20 PM »

As an outsider looking in. The Democrats are spending all this time stabbing each other until one is chosen to go against Trump. At that point whoever is chosen as the candidate, has been dragged through all kinds of attacks by people in his/her own party.

If this was sports, one guy is already in the final while the other person has to play a full season, followed by play offs before he/she gets to the final.


Is this the best system?  Huh





/jarmo
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« Reply #3719 on: February 21, 2020, 11:16:27 PM »

That about sums it up. The last debate leading up to the Nevada caucus was especially nasty. I was not happy how the men treated Warren and Kobuchar. I expect they kind of behavior from Trump, not Democrats.
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