The Flashback: Sympathy for the Devil

[Ringoturtle]

Two interesting Interviews with Slash about the recording of SFTD, Zakk Wylde and Paul Huge in 1995. especially the first one.

One:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7YeS7XTzlY (starts around 1:00)

Two:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFaydDs9MWI

as for Slash being bitter because his songs got rejected and him wanting to write lyrics etc....

Slash should've played both guitars. ONE song, no drama. doesn't mean he wants to write lyrics or go on as one-guitar band. do I think he might have felt bitter because his songs got rejected? seems absolutely possible. there might have been reasons that put him into a bitter, maybe even stubborn mindset at some point. yeah, Slash probably thought he was sufficient as a songwriter whereas Axl wanted another ingredient in the mix. fair enough. still, you shouldn't have put Paul Huge on the recording if people didn't want him.

[jarmo]

Do you think that Axl knew what they all thought of him?

Do you think that sounded like a salvageable situation?

Do you think if your 2 senior partners, at at least one other junior member aren't onboard, you should re-think your plan?

I think he knew what Duff and Slash thought. Not sure if he thought it was serious or just them saying no because Paul was his friend.

I'm sure he thought about it, but considering nothing else was an option, this was it.
The bottom line is. Do people who hear the song think it sounds horrible?

I think as has been already stated that if they could not agree on a guy, Slash does both parts.

So in your opinion, that's the fair solution. GN'R is a one guitar band where Slash has the say on guitar parts?

Oh, this is just pity party stuff.  Come on now.

Was this one serious?

No, there's no party on school nights.

Let me rephrase the question for you. Do you think the guys' feelings about Paul were in any shape influenced by the fact that he was Axl's friend? Yes or no?

 



/jarmo

[sky dog]

I think Slash playing both parts at the time was good enough....not a solution for the future of the band, but a solution at the time in order to try to avoid the pending meltdown. Hindsight is 20/20 though...

[JAEBALL]

I think Slash playing both parts at the time was good enough....not a solution for the future of the band, but a solution at the time in order to try to avoid the pending meltdown. Hindsight is 20/20 though...

Spot on. It's not an issue of whether or not Paul's contribution to the song was good enough or not for a Guns n Roses recording.


But, by all accounts, Slash, Duff and Matt were simply not on board with the decision, for a few different reasons, (common sense that it was forced on them) so was his inclusion worth the potential conflict that it inevitably caused?

As a Guns N Roses fan... I am going to say no... it was not the worth the implosion of the band at that time.

[D-GenerationX]

Slash should've played both guitars. ONE song, no drama. doesn't mean he wants to write lyrics or go on as one-guitar band. do I think he might have felt bitter because his songs got rejected? seems absolutely possible. there might have been reasons that put him into a bitter, maybe even stubborn mindset at some point. yeah, Slash probably thought he was sufficient as a songwriter whereas Axl wanted another ingredient in the mix. fair enough. still, you shouldn't have put Paul Huge on the recording if people didn't want him.

Yep, yep.

It ain't rocket science.

[LIGuns]

Excellent song though, Ozzy's version not so bad, Motorheads not so good, Janes Addiction not my cup o' tea and surprisingly Bon Jovi has a pretty good live version....

[JAEBALL]

Do you think that Axl knew what they all thought of him?

Do you think that sounded like a salvageable situation?

Do you think if your 2 senior partners, at at least one other junior member aren't onboard, you should re-think your plan?

I think he knew what Duff and Slash thought. Not sure if he thought it was serious or just them saying no because Paul was his friend.

I'm sure he thought about it, but considering nothing else was an option, this was it.
The bottom line is. Do people who hear the song think it sounds horrible?

I think as has been already stated that if they could not agree on a guy, Slash does both parts.

So in your opinion, that's the fair solution. GN'R is a one guitar band where Slash has the say on guitar parts?

Oh, this is just pity party stuff.  Come on now.

Was this one serious?

No, there's no party on school nights.

Let me rephrase the question for you. Do you think the guys' feelings about Paul were in any shape influenced by the fact that he was Axl's friend? Yes or no?

 



/jarmo

I don't think it had anything to do with the fact that he was AXL's FRIEND. Just that Axl forced the issue without their input.

But Axl had already maneuvered for the complete control over the band, doing what he thought was best for Guns N Roses. Right?

Paul or no Paul... the band was destined for the end , the day Axl forced them to sign contracts to be in Guns N Roses. I don't say that to paint Axl in a negative light, it's just the truth. Was Slash's addictions a factor? Sure. Was Izzy not involved in the writing a HUGE factor ? Sure

But those three things combined... made it inevitable. Paul was just a lightning rod to expedite the end.

[D-GenerationX]

I'm sure he thought about it, but considering nothing else was an option, this was it.
The bottom line is. Do people who hear the song think it sounds horrible?

No the bottom line is that Paul should not have wound up on there.

You can take as circuitous a route as you like, but you are still going to wind up at that same destination.

[D-GenerationX]

I think as has been already stated that if they could not agree on a guy, Slash does both parts.

So in your opinion, that's the fair solution. GN'R is a one guitar band where Slash has the say on guitar parts?

Yeah, nice try.

I'm curious why you only quoted that line and not the one that came right after.  Here, I'll show you :

I think as has been already stated that if they could not agree on a guy, Slash does both parts.

I think this was a random cover song on a soundtrack.  I don't think this was necessarily the same way they would continue their future as a band.

Oh...because when you add that other line that was right there, plain as day, it invalidates the "point" you are trying to make.

Nevermind.  I withdraw the question.  I see why you didn't include it.

[D-GenerationX]

D-Gen, here is the problem you have playing cards with Jarmo. He has pocket Kings from the start and you have a Jack and a Queen. I would imagine he could tell you quite a bit more about the ins and outs of what has happened....real facts. However, out of loyalty he is going to withhold his cards. Even when the truth comes out about certain things and you have to fold, he isn't going to show you what he had. Capiche?

Such is life for us common folks. 

Hahahaha.  True, for the most part.

But here's the thing.  When it comes to message boards, I'm about conversation, not conversion.

Meaning, I don't write my posts for the benefit of the guy I'm debating.  I know he is unlikely to give any ground.

No, I write my posts for the group at large.  I make my case the best way I know how, and then allow the rest of the gang at the board to decide how it stands up.

I tend to trust its going to go my way.  If it doesn't...hey, than maybe my argument was not a strong one. 

But I'll roll those dice, every time.

[CherryGarcia]

Maybe i wouldn't ask this if you had answered my question to you already. So let's try again. Which do you think would be a bigger blow for a songwriting lead guitar player in an unnamed band: Having your songs rejected or not having the say on who plays rhythm guitar on a cover song for a movie you hate?

Probably the former. 

But the latter shows how little your opinion truly matters to self deputized boss of what was up until then, a collaborative band.

And since it was the latter that was the final straw, I'd say that was a bigger deal than the former.

Well it wasn't the LAST straw for Slash because he did hang on for another 2 years...
Also IMO Slash was being kind of a dick himself around this time.

IE: "Hey, those songs you presented me, I'm down with working on three or four...."
"They're gone."
"Gone?"
"Yup. Recorded them with this band I set up. In 2 weeks."
"2 weeks...You can't do that..."
"Yeah, you can."
"I'm just asking to work on 3 or 4."
"Look man, when I first showed them to you, you had no interest in them. Now you want them? Okay, they're finished, they have lyrics, since what you're told or fuck off."

Also, not helping Axl look for a replacement for Gilby, and then turning down every suggestion for a Gilby replacement which Axl made. We don't know when the timeline was exactly - maybe Axl threw Paul on the track as a desperate move to try to fit someone in the band because Slash had said no to everyone else he suggested.

Also, saying "No" to Axl's desire for Guns to do MTV Unplugged just wasn't cool.

[JAEBALL]

I KNEW this thread was headed here as soon as I saw it.

Which is why my original post of the drama behind the song makes me dislike it, holds up.

[EmilyGNR]

Paul has been around for longer than most people know, he played lead in the Lafayette band AXL in '76-79. Izzy was the drummer. In the early 80's, Axl and Izzy went to LA, which resulted with Hollywood Rose et al. That's when he hooked up with Chris Weber, who sort of took Paul's place as Axl's co-writer.

Paul is credited for writing Back Off Bitch which was a demo from the appetite sessions. He was around in 87.....
He also co-wrote Shadow Of Your Love in the 80's, and he's thanked in the AFD liner notes

On the Thank Yous on AFD it says:[...] Mike Crank, Paul (let's look for planes!) Huge (Hue-gy), Tracii (L.A. -) Guns, [...]

It's not surprising he and Slash never got along because Huge would have seen things from Axls perspective,  and we all know Slash had his own "differing opinion" of things. 

[D-GenerationX]

But those three things combined... made it inevitable. Paul was just a lightning rod to expedite the end.

Seems it.

Axl was already getting a little wacky with some of his demands and actions by that point.

But after pulling this, it really shows the others that things had reached a tipping point.  Reassessments are then made.

[EmilyGNR]

I think it absolutely mattered that Paul was Axl's friend and it largely figured into the others' "dislike"

Duff- "I told Axl this was his band, he had ignored everyone and had hired his best friend for the band. I couldn't play with him. Paul Huge, that was the guy! He's a friend of Axl, he's a 'yes man'."

[D-GenerationX]

Also, saying "No" to Axl's desire for Guns to do MTV Unplugged just wasn't cool.

That was a bummer, because they are such a strong acoustic band.

As many times as I've heard bands do unplugged sets during their shows, nothing sounds quite like the Skin N' Bones tour.  Which was excellent.

[Annie]

Also, saying "No" to Axl's desire for Guns to do MTV Unplugged just wasn't cool.

That was a bummer, because they are such a strong acoustic band.

As many times as I've heard bands do unplugged sets during their shows, nothing sounds quite like the Skin N' Bones tour.  Which was excellent.

That would have been really cool.

[sky dog]

never heard the Unplugged story...is it myth or did it actually happen? quotes?

[LongGoneDay]

Maybe i wouldn't ask this if you had answered my question to you already. So let's try again. Which do you think would be a bigger blow for a songwriting lead guitar player in an unnamed band: Having your songs rejected or not having the say on who plays rhythm guitar on a cover song for a movie you hate?

Probably the former. 

But the latter shows how little your opinion truly matters to self deputized boss of what was up until then, a collaborative band.

And since it was the latter that was the final straw, I'd say that was a bigger deal than the former.

Well it wasn't the LAST straw for Slash because he did hang on for another 2 years...
Also IMO Slash was being kind of a dick himself around this time.

IE: "Hey, those songs you presented me, I'm down with working on three or four...."
"They're gone."
"Gone?"
"Yup. Recorded them with this band I set up. In 2 weeks."
"2 weeks...You can't do that..."
"Yeah, you can."
"I'm just asking to work on 3 or 4."
"Look man, when I first showed them to you, you had no interest in them. Now you want them? Okay, they're finished, they have lyrics, since what you're told or fuck off."

Also, not helping Axl look for a replacement for Gilby, and then turning down every suggestion for a Gilby replacement which Axl made. We don't know when the timeline was exactly - maybe Axl threw Paul on the track as a desperate move to try to fit someone in the band because Slash had said no to everyone else he suggested.

Also, saying "No" to Axl's desire for Guns to do MTV Unplugged just wasn't cool.

I believe I read that Slash and Duff did agree to jam with Paul, and decided he was hopeless.
Slash did agree to jam with Wylde, but didn?t think it worked for Guns. It?s not hard to understand why.
He?s an amazing talent, but he?s a lead guitarist himself, which would drastically change the dynamic and sound of Guns.

I think if anyone was going to have more say than others in regards to a new guitarist, it should have been Slash.
Not saying he should be allowed to bring anyone in against others wishes, but maybe Axl and the others should have deferred a bit to him since he was the undeniable expert in that area.

Zakk, Navarro and Paul all seem like very questionable choices from the outside looking in, so I?m sure Slash and Duff were scratching their heads.

I think Axl made a very poor decision including Paul, but you would think they all could have found common ground and moved past it had they really tried.
I think with the departures of Adler and Izzy, and Axl?s power grab, it started to feel less and less a band to Slash and Duff.
If it wasn?t this incident, it was going to be something else that sealed the implosion.

Regarding the Snakepit songs, if Slash really told Axl to shut up and sing someone else?s lyrics, than that is obviously weak.
He must have been on some really good shit to think Dover, himself or whomever was capable of writing better lyrics/melodies than Axl, especially during that time period.

Never heard about the Unplugged incident, but would have loved to have heard it.
That would have been right in their wheelhouse if Izzy were involved.

[D-GenerationX]

never heard the Unplugged story...is it myth or did it actually happen? quotes?

Honestly, I don't really recall it.