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« Reply #60 on: June 12, 2017, 06:57:19 PM »

Guys, the memory cheats.

I love the UYI tour.  But take out the first leg of that tour in starting in May 1991.  Hell even just take out the first month or so of shows on that summer '91 leg.  The "unpredictibility" is really not all that present as soon as July 1991. 

Now, there are 3 major legs to that tour.  1991 with Izzy.  Late 1991 to early 1993 with the extended 12 piece band, and the Skin 'N Bones acoustic leg.  Each leg had it own structure, but within that leg, you didn't exactly have to be Nostradaums to know what was going to be played.  You could sit down before the show and sketch out the basic setlist and come with a song or two of nailing it.

In other words, not much different than the NITL tour.

Now, most people's problem with the neverending CD tour was that that tour went entire legs and sometimes years in between legs, yet never really changed much.

If whenever they gear this back up, in 2020 or whatever, if it's basically the same show as the NITL tour, then I think you have a beef.

But not before.

My memory isn't cheating anything, it just hasn't adopted an apologist attitude.

Of course we saw similar set lists throughout the 2.5 year UYI tour(s). At the time, they only had 3 full albums (not that the number of albums has grown all that much in 2.5 decades). However, during the UYI era, 2 of the 3 albums were new material, or no more than 2 years old by the time that tour ended. The UYI shows had a spontaneous feel and an unpredictability about them, and we would at least get, what are now considered, deep cuts, like 'Right Next Door", "Perfect Crime", and even on the rare occasion, "Locomotive" and "Breakdown".

With NITL, we get very few deep cuts, or any type of variance at all for that matter. It's almost as if they are punching a clock, and on top of that, we get the same repetitive covers over and over. Hell, has Duff even been able to play "You Can't Put Your Arms" in full? Why not play that entire cover and cut 1 of the other 4 or so covers that they play nightly? And where in the hell is Izzy? And why is Adler, the actual drummer on AFD, only allowed to play 1 or 2 songs, while the band's 5th or 6th drummer (I lost count) plays the rest? If Axl truly does have 2 albums or so of unreleased material, why can't they rehearse 1 or 2 of the most top shelf songs and play those on occasion?

Again, I've witnessed both tours, and assuming you have done the same - and are willing to take off the rose tinted glasses - I think you'd be hard pressed to call the 2 tours "similar". I understand that they aren't in their 20s anymore, but that shouldn't be an excuse for their unwillingness to provide some variety. At bare minimum, get Izzy and Steven involved with more appearances. 
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« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2017, 11:02:45 AM »

Again, I've witnessed both tours, and assuming you have done the same - and are willing to take off the rose tinted glasses - I think you'd be hard pressed to call the 2 tours "similar". I understand that they aren't in their 20s anymore, but that shouldn't be an excuse for their unwillingness to provide some variety. At bare minimum, get Izzy and Steven involved with more appearances. 

Well, the biggest change I see is that the NITL is leaps and bounds more professional and competent an operation than any leg of the UYI tour.

No drama, no bullshit, no late starts, no onstage rants, no storms offs, no riots.  I will always prefer to listen to my UYI boots over my NITL boots.  But in terms of a headache free concert experience, it's NITL, and it's not close.

Personally, yes, I would rather a few more UYI cuts in place of some AFD ones.  But we know Axl has mixed feelings about those albums much past the singles, and he's the boss.  So I could rant and rave and stomp my feet that I think it's bullshit that we can't get 'Dead Horse' instead of 'My Michelle', but where is that getting me, really?

As to your last point, the sheer numbers in terms of both attendance and revenue offer proof positive that very few fucks are given about Izzy or Steven's exclusion.  Now, I know you don't want to hear that, but I am looking at things more coldly and logically than you, who tends to view things more emotionally.
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« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2017, 12:32:56 AM »

As to your last point, the sheer numbers in terms of both attendance and revenue offer proof positive that very few fucks are given about Izzy or Steven's exclusion.  Now, I know you don't want to hear that, but I am looking at things more coldly and logically than you, who tends to view things more emotionally.

No, you're looking at things "coldly" in your anti-Izzy/Steven perspective, which you're infamous for.

Yes, the ticket sales have been extraordinary, but that doesn't prove anything whatsoever in the way of not caring for Steven or Izzy.  It proves that people were....

A) Hungry as hell to see the impossible actually happen -- Axl and Slash together onstage again after seemingly forever.
B) Willing to accept it as Guns N Roses on that basis.

You make it sound like the fans would head to the fucking toilet if Izzy or Steven appeared onstage, and we already have "proof positive" that isn't the case.  Steven has received a tremendous reaction at every single show where he appeared, and THAT is a fact that YOU don't want to hear.  How much Steven's presence helped ticket sales has zero bearing on the fact that the fans were indeed glad to see him when he was there, which in effect refutes your claim that few people give a fuck about him (or Izzy).

The fans DO love Izzy and Steven, but the current ticket sales indicate they're willing to accept whatever version that includes Axl and Slash they can get after all these long decades.  But that's not the equivalent of not caring about the full original lineup.
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« Reply #63 on: June 15, 2017, 06:58:38 AM »

As to your last point, the sheer numbers in terms of both attendance and revenue offer proof positive that very few fucks are given about Izzy or Steven's exclusion.  Now, I know you don't want to hear that, but I am looking at things more coldly and logically than you, who tends to view things more emotionally.

No, you're looking at things "coldly" in your anti-Izzy/Steven perspective, which you're infamous for.

Yes, the ticket sales have been extraordinary, but that doesn't prove anything whatsoever in the way of not caring for Steven or Izzy.  It proves that people were....

A) Hungry as hell to see the impossible actually happen -- Axl and Slash together onstage again after seemingly forever.
B) Willing to accept it as Guns N Roses on that basis.

You make it sound like the fans would head to the fucking toilet if Izzy or Steven appeared onstage, and we already have "proof positive" that isn't the case.  Steven has received a tremendous reaction at every single show where he appeared, and THAT is a fact that YOU don't want to hear.  How much Steven's presence helped ticket sales has zero bearing on the fact that the fans were indeed glad to see him when he was there, which in effect refutes your claim that few people give a fuck about him (or Izzy).

The fans DO love Izzy and Steven, but the current ticket sales indicate they're willing to accept whatever version that includes Axl and Slash they can get after all these long decades.  But that's not the equivalent of not caring about the full original lineup.

The "full original lineup" would include Izzy buy not Steven. What you are referring to as the original lineup is actually the AFD or classic lineup.

GNR is running like a well- oiled machine, it makes no sense business wise to factor in a wild card- read: "unpredictable" and hope for the best.

Steven's recent press statements prove that he hasn't changed much as far as running his mouth about the band. no

 His whining about the number of songs he is allowed to play, and refusing to acknowledge that he was fired due to his own choices is simply more of the "poor me" blame game he has been playing for over 20 years.

It is Izzy's choice that he is not participating- most of his supporters won't admit that simple fact.

The absence of both Izzy and Steven hasn't impacted ticket sales to a discernable degree, that isn't debatable, when Steven was fired it was a non-event, I don't recall anybody being unduly alarmed or upset then.

 Izzy cashed in his chips when he quit, but now unrealistically expects everything to be magically restored, including his "equal" or partnership status and pay grade.


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« Reply #64 on: June 15, 2017, 07:22:35 AM »

Guys, the memory cheats.

I love the UYI tour.  But take out the first leg of that tour in starting in May 1991.  Hell even just take out the first month or so of shows on that summer '91 leg.  The "unpredictibility" is really not all that present as soon as July 1991. 

Now, there are 3 major legs to that tour.  1991 with Izzy.  Late 1991 to early 1993 with the extended 12 piece band, and the Skin 'N Bones acoustic leg.  Each leg had it own structure, but within that leg, you didn't exactly have to be Nostradaums to know what was going to be played.  You could sit down before the show and sketch out the basic setlist and come with a song or two of nailing it.

In other words, not much different than the NITL tour.

Now, most people's problem with the neverending CD tour was that that tour went entire legs and sometimes years in between legs, yet never really changed much.

If whenever they gear this back up, in 2020 or whatever, if it's basically the same show as the NITL tour, then I think you have a beef.

But not before.

My memory isn't cheating anything, it just hasn't adopted an apologist attitude.

Of course we saw similar set lists throughout the 2.5 year UYI tour(s). At the time, they only had 3 full albums (not that the number of albums has grown all that much in 2.5 decades). However, during the UYI era, 2 of the 3 albums were new material, or no more than 2 years old by the time that tour ended. The UYI shows had a spontaneous feel and an unpredictability about them, and we would at least get, what are now considered, deep cuts, like 'Right Next Door", "Perfect Crime", and even on the rare occasion, "Locomotive" and "Breakdown".

With NITL, we get very few deep cuts, or any type of variance at all for that matter. It's almost as if they are punching a clock, and on top of that, we get the same repetitive covers over and over. Hell, has Duff even been able to play "You Can't Put Your Arms" in full? Why not play that entire cover and cut 1 of the other 4 or so covers that they play nightly? And where in the hell is Izzy? And why is Adler, the actual drummer on AFD, only allowed to play 1 or 2 songs, while the band's 5th or 6th drummer (I lost count) plays the rest? If Axl truly does have 2 albums or so of unreleased material, why can't they rehearse 1 or 2 of the most top shelf songs and play those on occasion?

Again, I've witnessed both tours, and assuming you have done the same - and are willing to take off the rose tinted glasses - I think you'd be hard pressed to call the 2 tours "similar". I understand that they aren't in their 20s anymore, but that shouldn't be an excuse for their unwillingness to provide some variety. At bare minimum, get Izzy and Steven involved with more appearances. 


The entire world has changed since the UYI tour, when new songs were premiered technology hadn't reached the point that it has today, anything new played now would be uploaded and shared worldwide within minutes, which isn't always the ideal way for fans to be introduced to new material, first impressions do matter.

The setlist has already undergone several changes and even surprises, with Sorry and Catcher being added, Angus' appearances in Australia and nobody was expecting Black Hole Sun to be added. The NITL tour is only a little over a year old and is playing to new areas not toured last year, many people in EU haven't seen this show yet.

For years, all that was whined about was Slash not being there, now that he is there, along with Duff fans have moved the goalposts and are finding other things to be unhappy about IE: Steven, Izzy, a new album, the setlist etc. 

I believe some will always find things to complain about no matter what GNR does.
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« Reply #65 on: June 15, 2017, 10:43:01 AM »

I don't understand why people keep hanging around on these forums, go to the concerts or even keep being a 'fan' of a band that does nothing the way THEY want it to. I mean, seriously. I love GnR for their music, and if they come to my country I go to their concert. If, for whatever reason, I start disliking what they do as a band, or if I am not interested in them anymore, I simply move on to other acts that cater to my needs. I am not going to whine ALL the time about how a band that I liked the music of ages ago does not do what I want.

Some of you simply don't like GnR anymore, but haven't really grasped it yet. Yeah, you liked the old band etc. But how they operate now is something you don't like. I don't see anything new, and I don't expect anything different. That's why I like the band and am a 'fan' for.

Just move on, but stop pissing on the parade of the people who are actually enjoying it. Now, some of you will say "Well, I am entitled to my opinion on this band'. Fuck yeah, you are. Just as I am, and my opinion is that this band has too many fans who think they bought a stake in GnR when buying an album or a concert ticket. You didn't. You already got what you paid for, and you're also not part of their management. So, to put it simply: find a band that releases new music when you want it to, and plays the set lists you want them to play. Life can be so simple.

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« Reply #66 on: June 15, 2017, 06:02:30 PM »


You make it sound like the fans would head to the fucking toilet if Izzy or Steven appeared onstage, and we already have "proof positive" that isn't the case.  Steven has received a tremendous reaction at every single show where he appeared, and THAT is a fact that YOU don't want to hear.  How much Steven's presence helped ticket sales has zero bearing on the fact that the fans were indeed glad to see him when he was there, which in effect refutes your claim that few people give a fuck about him (or Izzy).


Well, of course not.  That's ridiculous.

But it's a "yeah, wouldn't it be nice" kind of deal.  That's what I'm saying.  I don't think anyone is against it.  But I think it's a fallacy to be able to see the majority of fans ultimately shrug their shoulders about it, and then claim it's a front burner issue, fanbase wide.

I think it only really matters if you are one of those people that really wax poetic about the original line-up like it was a downright religious experience.  I've just never been much of a "this band changed my life" type guy.  I outright laugh at "I would not be here if not for the music of <insert band here>".

It's rock music, man.  Rock music we all obviously dig.  But it ain't spiritual enlightenment at work here.
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« Reply #67 on: June 15, 2017, 06:17:07 PM »


I believe some will always find things to complain about no matter what GNR does.


I never believed that.  Until now.

Never believed it because I thought it was the phony argument of alltime to say people were supposed to be super pumped about DJ Ashba.  Or not putting albums out.  Those aren't champagne cork popping developments.

But I'd have bet cash money, and lost, people could find ways to be down on the return of Slash.
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« Reply #68 on: June 15, 2017, 11:15:22 PM »

I think it only really matters if you are one of those people that really wax poetic about the original line-up like it was a downright religious experience.  I've just never been much of a "this band changed my life" type guy.  I outright laugh at "I would not be here if not for the music of <insert band here>".

It's rock music, man.  Rock music we all obviously dig.  But it ain't spiritual enlightenment at work here.

So you're saying there's no space in-between the two?  It's either "dude gimme rock music" or it's "oh dear god I worship this!"?

Look, I'm not gonna claim the bloody planet would be a lesser place if Guns N Roses had never existed.  But I can say that music does impact people's lives beyond a simple "hey, dude, it's rock music, man!".  It is personal to a lot of people.  I don't bow before it, but when Appetite for Destruction was released, it did change culture in a musical sense.  It wasn't just "oh cool, another bangin' rock album man!"

Along with that, the lineup of 5 guys that created it was forever cemented.  Everything that happened after 1987 with Guns N Roses was always the result of what Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy accomplished.  Regardless of the ensuing albums, the various lineups, the breakups, partial reunions, etc, nothing changes what the original 5 members burned into our musical consciousness.

So you prefer different lineups or different members.  So what.  You're entitled to that.  But it's downright bizarre and it just baffles me that there are actually people who can't understand fans having a love affair with ALL the guys who started it all!

It's not a matter of "finding something to bitch about" regarding Slash's return (I for one was in ecstatic disbelief when Axl and Slash shared the stage again).  It's merely a basic desire of seeing ALL of the original members back together on the stage again, regardless of how likely it is or what the precise reasons are that Steven and Izzy haven't been around more.

No, I'm not trying to sell my soul to Hell's Overlord over this, but seeing Axl, Slash, Duff, Steven, and Izzy together on the same stage again would mean a hell of a lot more than mere "rock music" to a lot of us out there.
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« Reply #69 on: June 15, 2017, 11:37:48 PM »

Why do you think they offered Izzy less money?  I can't figure that out.

I could see if they were going to argue that he wouldn't do press or carry his weight preshing the flesh, but none of them do that.

So why would he be paid less than Slash and Duff, both of who I assume makes less than Axl?
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« Reply #70 on: June 16, 2017, 12:35:05 AM »

Why do you think they offered Izzy less money?  I can't figure that out.

I could see if they were going to argue that he wouldn't do press or carry his weight preshing the flesh, but none of them do that.

So why would he be paid less than Slash and Duff, both of who I assume makes less than Axl?

Izzy said "they didn't want to share the loot equally".  I'd be interested in learning who "they" is.  Did Slash and Duff have something to say about Izzy's pay?  Does "they" refer to Axl and GNR management?

Either way, if Izzy were willing to participate in an entire tour (and despite claims to the contrary, he has NOT publicly stated that he wouldn't tour) then I can't see why he wouldn't receive equal pay to at least Slash and Duff, who are still technically hired hands since Axl owns the GNR name.  This business of Izzy possibly "flaking" out is unlikely -- once he signs a contract he certainly understands that he has to appear on the signed dates.  He made all his dates with GNR before he quit.

Axl's comments on Izzy in the 7/29/16 interview in Orlando were extremely (and perhaps purposefully) vague, although Axl's words provoked Izzy's response in saying "they" didn't want to split the loot.  We've not been given anything further so it remains it a mystery.
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« Reply #71 on: June 17, 2017, 11:40:12 AM »

Why do you think they offered Izzy less money?  I can't figure that out.

I could see if they were going to argue that he wouldn't do press or carry his weight preshing the flesh, but none of them do that.

So why would he be paid less than Slash and Duff, both of who I assume makes less than Axl?

Izzy said "they didn't want to share the loot equally".  I'd be interested in learning who "they" is.  Did Slash and Duff have something to say about Izzy's pay?  Does "they" refer to Axl and GNR management?

Either way, if Izzy were willing to participate in an entire tour (and despite claims to the contrary, he has NOT publicly stated that he wouldn't tour) then I can't see why he wouldn't receive equal pay to at least Slash and Duff, who are still technically hired hands since Axl owns the GNR name.  This business of Izzy possibly "flaking" out is unlikely -- once he signs a contract he certainly understands that he has to appear on the signed dates.  He made all his dates with GNR before he quit.

Axl's comments on Izzy in the 7/29/16 interview in Orlando were extremely (and perhaps purposefully) vague, although Axl's words provoked Izzy's response in saying "they" didn't want to split the loot.  We've not been given anything further so it remains it a mystery.

Yep

Its like all things with this bands.  Fans debate what fans think and what fans opinions are and not what the actual facts are.

Why?Huh

Because this band tells us nothing!!!!!!!!

This band expects you to be a fan.   Love the music, love the band members....

What happened to Chris P?

Why is Mellissa in this band?

Why did Steven only play a few shows?

Why isn't Izzy around?

Are Slash and Duff band members?  Or just under a contract to tour with Axls band?

Did Slash and Duff and Axl recommit to a business relationship?

Why is there no interviews from this band?

Why did Slash and Duff all of a sudden become so silient on social media?

Are we going to get an official concert video of the latest tour?  Or a live album?  If not why not?  And why has there been so little official live concert video from this band?

Why does this band play so many cover songs live?

If Axl said there was three albums worth of CD era songs ready to be released when can we see it?  If it is not going to be released why?

Are there serious plans of releasing new original music written by Axl, Duff and Slash?  If not why?

Since the band is racking in hundreds of millions of dollars in revenue from this never ending tour.  What is in it for the fans, other than the tour???

What are Axls future plans with Ac/Dc.  As a fan of Guns n Roses should I expect Axl to release an album with ac/dc before guns?

Why when you play back to back dates in a city do you not change up the setlist?

When you come back to north America and play markets very close if not exactly the same as you just played, are you going to be changing up the setlist at all??

This band has been around since the 80s and yet only has 4 original albums of material released.  Any plans on releasing any new material?


Just some of the questions that should and will never be answered

it sure is fun as a fan to debate these though, as with this band, there is no right or wrong answers.  Just fan opinion
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« Reply #72 on: June 19, 2017, 11:15:17 AM »

To be honest, I see little evidence that the guys are interested in anything other than making a shit ton of loot.

Because nothing else suggets this is any more than a business relationship.  I think that was obvious from the very second they never did an interview or any serious press of any kind.  Nothing about how great it was to be back.  Nothing about thigns we could look for in the future.

It was just a list of tourdates and ticket prices.  That seems to be all that matters.
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« Reply #73 on: June 19, 2017, 08:55:49 PM »

To be honest, I see little evidence that the guys are interested in anything other than making a shit ton of loot.

Because nothing else suggets this is any more than a business relationship.  I think that was obvious from the very second they never did an interview or any serious press of any kind.  Nothing about how great it was to be back.  Nothing about thigns we could look for in the future.

It was just a list of tourdates and ticket prices.  That seems to be all that matters.

So as a fan.

What is in it for us to stay a vested fan?

I never changing tour supporting 4 original albums....    and....
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« Reply #74 on: June 19, 2017, 09:43:57 PM »

They are a legacy act at this point.  This is what legacy acts do.  They charge a ton of money and play the hits people want to hear.

If anything, it's a miracle they play even one CD song.  That's just Axl being stubborn.  Few in the crowd care, and most would gladly swap out those 4 songs for UYI songs.  A true in it for the money type operation would be AFD in near entirety and anything else that had a MTV video.

This band hasn't been a viable, creative entity in 17 years.  I don't believe one new thing has been written in that time.  And I don't think anything has been worked on in at least 10 years.  Final touch-up n the CD stuff in early 2007.  That's probably your last bit of recording. 

So where is this album supposed to be coming from?  Magic?
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« Reply #75 on: June 19, 2017, 10:18:04 PM »

They are a legacy act at this point.  This is what legacy acts do.  They charge a ton of money and play the hits people want to hear.

If anything, it's a miracle they play even one CD song.  That's just Axl being stubborn.  Few in the crowd care, and most would gladly swap out those 4 songs for UYI songs.  A true in it for the money type operation would be AFD in near entirety and anything else that had a MTV video.

This band hasn't been a viable, creative entity in 17 years.  I don't believe one new thing has been written in that time.  And I don't think anything has been worked on in at least 10 years.  Final touch-up n the CD stuff in early 2007.  That's probably your last bit of recording. 

So where is this album supposed to be coming from?  Magic?

I am with you with.  I don't think anything has been written by Axl in a very very very long time.  I am sure members of this touring band and previous members have written things, tried to write etc..  They all seemed very genuine when asked about these things.   I am not sure Axls motives are that of producing original music for gnr though.  And havnt been in a very long time.

Legacy acts usually rely on a lot more content than this group.  The lack of original material this group has blows my mind.  People call some songs hits, but they never where.  They where just on a hit album. 

Where would a new album come from at this point.   We will never get one.

I would almost settle for a great interview, something we don't get.

I would settle for a honest to god 2hr show, where the band just plays its own music.  Own jams....

I would settle for when this band plays back to back nights in a town they change up the setlist.

I would settle for when this band returns to a country they just toured and play cities they just played that they totally change up the show. 

I would settle for a live blue ray of this band

I would settle for this band to release previous footage that was recorded during the UYI tour. 
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« Reply #76 on: June 19, 2017, 11:11:56 PM »

To be honest, I see little evidence that the guys are interested in anything other than making a shit ton of loot.

Because nothing else suggets this is any more than a business relationship.  I think that was obvious from the very second they never did an interview or any serious press of any kind.  Nothing about how great it was to be back.  Nothing about things we could look for in the future.

I kind of alluded to this issue during the discussions about the lineup.  Fans are basically taking whatever they can get at this point.  Just seeing Axl and Slash take the stage together was the absolute impossible, yet it happened, so fans are willing to pay big bucks to see that alone.  Regardless of whether or not it's the full original lineup, and regardless of any new music on the horizon.
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« Reply #77 on: June 20, 2017, 09:11:01 AM »

To be honest, I see little evidence that the guys are interested in anything other than making a shit ton of loot.

Because nothing else suggets this is any more than a business relationship.  I think that was obvious from the very second they never did an interview or any serious press of any kind.  Nothing about how great it was to be back.  Nothing about things we could look for in the future.

I kind of alluded to this issue during the discussions about the lineup.  Fans are basically taking whatever they can get at this point.  Just seeing Axl and Slash take the stage together was the absolute impossible, yet it happened, so fans are willing to pay big bucks to see that alone.  Regardless of whether or not it's the full original lineup, and regardless of any new music on the horizon.

I am one of those people... and I have no issues with spending the big money on it..

It's not even I am taking it because it appears to be all I can get at this point...

I am thrilled about the whole thing

I'd love to go buy a new Guns N Roses album tomorrow, but at no point since Chinese Democracy was released did I ever think that was close to happening... so why not just be stoked that they are literally the biggest act in rock n roll right now. Plus the shows are phenomenal....

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« Reply #78 on: June 20, 2017, 09:41:59 AM »

And the mood is so much better.

At the shows, around here, etc.  It's just a much happier time.

That has value to me.
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I Can Finally Say I Saw Guns N' Roses Without Any Caveats, Qualifiers, Or Preambles.  And It Was GLORIOUS.  Best Concert Of My Life.
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« Reply #79 on: June 20, 2017, 03:30:44 PM »

And the mood is so much better.

At the shows, around here, etc.  It's just a much happier time.

That has value to me.

Yeah I guess I am just not there

There is nothing in it for me to spend big money to see this show again. 

As a fan there really insnt anything to keep me vested
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