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Author Topic: Should GnR songs be played?  (Read 4493 times)
allwaystired
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« Reply #60 on: May 08, 2019, 05:19:38 PM »

Guys, words are just words.

We are cleaning up our language, omologating our behaviours, thoughts etc  and world is worse than ever, think about that.

I mean i love to sing the line "Turn around bitch I got a use for you"... I've been in love with my girl for 10 years and I've never been so rude to her.

If u don't have a grain of salt, u can erase the all the words in this word , but your're still a dumb fuck. And usually the best dumb fuck is the one who call u racist if u use the n word even only once

Words are just words? You should tell that to cults, marketing firms, Nazi propagandists and anyone else who has successfully influenced people to action with "just words".

Words do not exist in a vacuum, social norms shape how people think and behave, this is well-accepted social psychology.

Not sure what "omologating" is supposed to mean, but that is quite possibly the most wide-ranging correlation fallacy I have ever heard. "We are cleaning up our oceans and yet there are more bear attacks than ever before! Think about that..."

Not to mention that "the world is worse than ever" is yet another mind-numbingly gargantuan generalization.

As to your last statement... what? I'm pretty sure you can't use the defense, "I only killed ONE person, now all the sudden I'm labelled as a murderer?!" Your words and actions reflect your character. Why would a person who is not racist use the n-word at all?

U missed my point.

I give you an example: ask any italian what they think about the north-african immigrants...You would hear anything from "they should come back to their country" to "i hope they will sleep with the fishes"

Then ask the Pope the same question. Answer: "they are all human beings, let them in, they are our friends, brothers."

Now, look at what the Vatican is doing for the immigrants and then look at what Italy have done and doing still. There is no competition. If u look at words italians are racists, at least... If u look at facts, the Pope is the fuckin Hitler, with his 0 help. So what?

Words are just words, if  not supported by the facts. I could be an employer and call my fat black secretary "chocolate mommy".  ANother employer has not black people employed cause he hates them. But you know, because of the "social norm" I'll be the homofobic racist employer who should be  banned from society, the other one would be the good guy...

So your nazi propaganda example doesn't work, we are talking about a whole different thing. Saying publicy let's gather up and kill all the n****s or the jews, its' a fuckin plan.

Now I answer your last question. I'm bald. If u are in anger with me and u want to punch me, kill me etc. What are u going to say? "bald shit, bald retard etc... If you are a black guy who is assaulting me maybe i'll answer you  "fuckin n". When you are angry you know u'll use words that are hurting the other side in any way possibile but that doesn't make you a racist or a bald people hater...




I can say hand on heart, I would never call a black person a "fuckin n" no matter what the situation it is. That's an absolutely ludicrous thing to say, and absolutely the only white people I would ever hear saying that to black people now are extreme racists. Comparing it to someone calling another a "bald shit" is absurd- it doesn't have the weight of hundreds of years of slavery and oppression behind it.

I'm not sure what world you live in where white people are still calling black people the n word and not being deemed as racist. Certainly not the one I'm living in.





Dude the word NIGER-NIGRIS comes from latin. And ONLY in the USA has that meaning, cause originally it hadn't that negative aura. Niger means "coming from niger (africa. If America slaves were called "n" shouldn't matter for the  entire world, we come from different cultures at the end of the days. And remember racism is not about slavery, but it's about somatic traits. So being bald or black or fat and been discriminatied for that is called racism, its the same exact thing. That's why im saying words are just words, this shows how people don't know the meaning behind the words they use... ANd im not saying is a good thing say the "n" word, im just saying  it can happen to use it, but it doesnt mean anything... People use to judge people just because of words they use because is the easiest (and pathetic) thing to do.. When it's time to think about facts it's too difficult, just this...

Remind me again why being called bald or fat is racism?

I couldn't care less where the n word came from- it's use is wholly racist. As anyone knows.

You're obviously talking out of your backside. Try wandering up to a black person, calling them the 'n' word, and see if they agree it "doesn't mean anything".......I think they might enlighten you as to their feelings on the use of the word by a white person.




Not "being called". Being discriminated for that. Again, you're missing the point and are you're giving me reason without even knowing it

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about anymore, but your previous suggestions that it's ok to call a black person the 'n' word if you're angry with them is utterly ridiculous.

I imagine you're just trolling to be honest, as no one could be that idiotic in 2019, so I think I'll end it here.

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« Reply #61 on: May 08, 2019, 05:25:00 PM »

Guys, words are just words.

We are cleaning up our language, omologating our behaviours, thoughts etc  and world is worse than ever, think about that.

I mean i love to sing the line "Turn around bitch I got a use for you"... I've been in love with my girl for 10 years and I've never been so rude to her.

If u don't have a grain of salt, u can erase the all the words in this word , but your're still a dumb fuck. And usually the best dumb fuck is the one who call u racist if u use the n word even only once

Words are just words? You should tell that to cults, marketing firms, Nazi propagandists and anyone else who has successfully influenced people to action with "just words".

Words do not exist in a vacuum, social norms shape how people think and behave, this is well-accepted social psychology.

Not sure what "omologating" is supposed to mean, but that is quite possibly the most wide-ranging correlation fallacy I have ever heard. "We are cleaning up our oceans and yet there are more bear attacks than ever before! Think about that..."

Not to mention that "the world is worse than ever" is yet another mind-numbingly gargantuan generalization.

As to your last statement... what? I'm pretty sure you can't use the defense, "I only killed ONE person, now all the sudden I'm labelled as a murderer?!" Your words and actions reflect your character. Why would a person who is not racist use the n-word at all?

U missed my point.

I give you an example: ask any italian what they think about the north-african immigrants...You would hear anything from "they should come back to their country" to "i hope they will sleep with the fishes"

Then ask the Pope the same question. Answer: "they are all human beings, let them in, they are our friends, brothers."

Now, look at what the Vatican is doing for the immigrants and then look at what Italy have done and doing still. There is no competition. If u look at words italians are racists, at least... If u look at facts, the Pope is the fuckin Hitler, with his 0 help. So what?

Words are just words, if  not supported by the facts. I could be an employer and call my fat black secretary "chocolate mommy".  ANother employer has not black people employed cause he hates them. But you know, because of the "social norm" I'll be the homofobic racist employer who should be  banned from society, the other one would be the good guy...

So your nazi propaganda example doesn't work, we are talking about a whole different thing. Saying publicy let's gather up and kill all the n****s or the jews, its' a fuckin plan.

Now I answer your last question. I'm bald. If u are in anger with me and u want to punch me, kill me etc. What are u going to say? "bald shit, bald retard etc... If you are a black guy who is assaulting me maybe i'll answer you  "fuckin n". When you are angry you know u'll use words that are hurting the other side in any way possibile but that doesn't make you a racist or a bald people hater...




I can say hand on heart, I would never call a black person a "fuckin n" no matter what the situation it is. That's an absolutely ludicrous thing to say, and absolutely the only white people I would ever hear saying that to black people now are extreme racists. Comparing it to someone calling another a "bald shit" is absurd- it doesn't have the weight of hundreds of years of slavery and oppression behind it.

I'm not sure what world you live in where white people are still calling black people the n word and not being deemed as racist. Certainly not the one I'm living in.





Dude the word NIGER-NIGRIS comes from latin. And ONLY in the USA has that meaning, cause originally it hadn't that negative aura. Niger means "coming from niger (africa. If America slaves were called "n" shouldn't matter for the  entire world, we come from different cultures at the end of the days. And remember racism is not about slavery, but it's about somatic traits. So being bald or black or fat and been discriminatied for that is called racism, its the same exact thing. That's why im saying words are just words, this shows how people don't know the meaning behind the words they use... ANd im not saying is a good thing say the "n" word, im just saying  it can happen to use it, but it doesnt mean anything... People use to judge people just because of words they use because is the easiest (and pathetic) thing to do.. When it's time to think about facts it's too difficult, just this...

Remind me again why being called bald or fat is racism?

I couldn't care less where the n word came from- it's use is wholly racist. As anyone knows.

You're obviously talking out of your backside. Try wandering up to a black person, calling them the 'n' word, and see if they agree it "doesn't mean anything".......I think they might enlighten you as to their feelings on the use of the word by a white person.




Not "being called". Being discriminated for that. Again, you're missing the point and are you're giving me reason without even knowing it

I have absolutely no idea what you're on about anymore, but your previous suggestions that it's ok to call a black person the 'n' word if you're angry with them is utterly ridiculous.

I imagine you're just trolling to be honest, as no one could be that idiotic in 2019, so I think I'll end it here.



Boom! And at the end the good guy, having nothing more to say, offended the bad one.  rofl rofl
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« Reply #62 on: May 08, 2019, 09:06:22 PM »

And rightfully so
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« Reply #63 on: May 08, 2019, 10:29:30 PM »

I give you an example: ask any italian what they think about the north-african immigrants...You would hear anything from "they should come back to their country" to "i hope they will sleep with the fishes"

Then ask the Pope the same question. Answer: "they are all human beings, let them in, they are our friends, brothers."

Now, look at what the Vatican is doing for the immigrants and then look at what Italy have done and doing still. There is no competition. If u look at words italians are racists, at least... If u look at facts, the Pope is the fuckin Hitler, with his 0 help. So what?

Okay, first of all, you are generalizing all Italians, which makes your entire argument invalid. You cannot presume to know the racial attitudes of all Italians. If they have tolerant immigration policies, then clearly the majority of them do not think immigrants should "go back where they came from". It sounds like you had some bad experiences there and projected those individuals' attitudes onto their entire populace. That is, if you've even ever been there and aren't just making assumptions based on what you hear.

As far as the Vatican goes, that is a shame but there is a motive for it; looking good publicly to hide your true views. But why would a person who is tolerant want to be publicly viewed as intolerant? There is no motive for the opposite.

Quote
I could be an employer and call my fat black secretary "chocolate mommy".  ANother employer has not black people employed cause he hates them. But you know, because of the "social norm" I'll be the homofobic racist employer who should be  banned from society, the other one would be the good guy...

What planet are you living on? It is a FEDERAL CRIME to discriminate in employment.

Quote
So your nazi propaganda example doesn't work, we are talking about a whole different thing. Saying publicy let's gather up and kill all the n****s or the jews, its' a fuckin plan.

Clearly it's you who missed my point. Which was that words influence people. They do not exist in a vacuum and they can lead to actions. Saying "let's kill X group" is also still "just words", so it is absolutely the same thing. Saying we should kill somebody is not the same as the action of killing them. If words did not influence actions, why would propaganda exist at all?

Quote
Now I answer your last question. I'm bald. If u are in anger with me and u want to punch me, kill me etc. What are u going to say? "bald shit, bald retard etc... If you are a black guy who is assaulting me maybe i'll answer you  "fuckin n". When you are angry you know u'll use words that are hurting the other side in any way possibile but that doesn't make you a racist or a bald people hater...

No, I would not. I would probably call you stupid or an asshole or whatever relates to the reason you made me angry, not some irrelevant thing like your hair or skin color.

And we are not talking about words thrown out in a blind rage anyway, we are talking about words that written down as lyrics, thought over, recorded, produced and released worldwide. Regardless, I have never used such words in a fit of rage anyway because they are simply not in my vocabulary. You don't suddenly introduce new words to your vocabulary in a fit of rage, like "You fucking loquacious piece of shit!"

Dude the word NIGER-NIGRIS comes from latin. And ONLY in the USA has that meaning, cause originally it hadn't that negative aura. Niger means "coming from niger (africa). If America slaves were called "n" shouldn't matter for the  entire world, we come from different cultures at the end of the days. And remember racism is not about slavery, but it's about somatic traits. So being bald or black or fat and been discriminatied for that is called racism, and its the same exact thing, don't matter what you say. That's why im saying words are just words, this shows how people don't know the meaning behind the words they use... ANd im not saying is a good thing say the "n" word, im just saying  it can happen to use it, but it doesnt mean anything... People usually judge other people just because of words they use because is the easiest (and pathetic) thing to do.. When it's time to think about facts it's too difficult, just this...

You are disproving your own point. The meanings of words change over time and differ between cultures. And the "g-g-e-r" version was created in America precisely as a slur. If you call an American black person a "niger", they will probably just look at you sideways.

As far as whether that matters in the rest of the world, it is generally less offensive in other countries, although American culture (especially in the digital age) bleeds out into the rest of the world, and most other countries' people know the history of the American variation, and know what an ugly slur it is. You cannot police people's minds and tell them what to be offended by.

Bald and fat people are not races. But discrimination of any kind is wrong. However, there is no equivalent to the n-word for bald and fat people. To suggest so is disturbingly ignorant of the history behind that word.

Quote
People usually judge other people just because of words they use because is the easiest (and pathetic) thing to do

Judging a man by his words is "pathetic"? That statement is pathetic. Your words are revealing a lot about you right now.

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« Reply #64 on: May 08, 2019, 10:32:25 PM »

Not "being called". Being discriminated for that. Again, you're missing the point and are you're giving me reason without even knowing it

Yeah, that's not racism either. It's discrimination. For the guy ranting about people not knowing the meaning of words they use, you sure do it a lot yourself...

Boom! And at the end the good guy, having nothing more to say, offended the bad one.  rofl rofl

For the love of God, grow up.
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« Reply #65 on: May 08, 2019, 11:05:41 PM »

Gotta appreciate PermissionToLand's very well written and well thought answers.



I Found this online which is a bit interesting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTGpbyStMqQ


Thanks. That was interesting. I wonder what Vin would say though if he knew Axl was actually a small town country boy before becoming a star? I think if it were really just him inhabiting a character, he would have made that very clear when the controversy was at its height in '88/89.

And of course, as you could predict, lots of comments are running with Vin's opinion, coming from an upbringing very different from most African Americans, as exoneration of the song.
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« Reply #66 on: May 09, 2019, 01:50:45 AM »

Not "being called". Being discriminated for that. Again, you're missing the point and are you're giving me reason without even knowing it

Yeah, that's not racism either. It's discrimination. For the guy ranting about people not knowing the meaning of words they use, you sure do it a lot yourself...

Boom! And at the end the good guy, having nothing more to say, offended the bad one.  rofl rofl

For the love of God, grow up.
Ok boss tell Axl is a racist. And don’t listen to gnr songs as the thread suggests cause that makes you racist too, i dont want you to be corrupted by his racist propaganda. And leave this forum and do any thing to close it, this is a racist forum cause people here support a racist man, right? Have fun doin it.

Dude we keep on talking about different things, i was using paradoxes to lead you to my point but ok, it doesn't work. I get your point, but on the otherside you keep on taking me litterally, but ok nevermind...

I really don't know why is so difficult to understand that the use of some words in a certain context (from a state of anger to the portait of a character or characters in a song) doesn't make you anything (not racist, not homofobic)... Maybe is not the perfect thing to do and some people may get offended, but is understandable. Or it was understandable, at this point, cause it looks like people i'm discussing with they are living in a bubble of a world made of words, judging people only by the words they are sayin' even if the way they live their lives shows the opposite...

« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 02:33:21 AM by ITARocker » Logged
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« Reply #67 on: May 11, 2019, 11:08:43 AM »

Duff was interviewed recently by Yahoo! Music and in the interview they mention the song and how it was written in character. He's asked if he was surprised that people didn't get that part:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/guns-n-roses-duff-mc-kagan-addresses-gun-control-in-school-somethings-gotta-be-done-165805785.html

(They're talking about it after the 46:44 mark in the full interview clip)

He says it was brilliant and super brave of Axl to step out and do that. He says the song is public commentary. Duff mentions that the song uses the verbiage of ill informed people on the street.



/jarmo
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« Reply #68 on: May 12, 2019, 02:02:09 AM »

Ok boss tell Axl is a racist. And don’t listen to gnr songs as the thread suggests cause that makes you racist too, i dont want you to be corrupted by his racist propaganda. And leave this forum and do any thing to close it, this is a racist forum cause people here support a racist man, right? Have fun doin it.

Dude we keep on talking about different things, i was using paradoxes to lead you to my point but ok, it doesn't work. I get your point, but on the otherside you keep on taking me litterally, but ok nevermind...

I really don't know why is so difficult to understand that the use of some words in a certain context (from a state of anger to the portait of a character or characters in a song) doesn't make you anything (not racist, not homofobic)... Maybe is not the perfect thing to do and some people may get offended, but is understandable. Or it was understandable, at this point, cause it looks like people i'm discussing with they are living in a bubble of a world made of words, judging people only by the words they are sayin' even if the way they live their lives shows the opposite...

Nobody said listening to GNR makes you racist. Why can't you have an honest discussion? It's clear you haven't comprehended a single thing I've said. I said pretty clearly that while I think the song is racist, Axl has clearly grown up in the past 30 years and learned from that mistake.

"Paradoxes"? You shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of to look smart. It tends to have the opposite effect.

Yes, I am taking you literally because you are making arguments, not writing a fantasy novella. Please point out where you were using metaphors, I'll wait. This is a really weak diversion tactic to keep claiming you are being misinterpreted and changing your argument once it's clear you have no defense left.

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that people who are not racist don't suddenly become racist when they are angry. Also, Axl did not write these lyrics in a blind rage. This is not the same as insults thrown during road rage. I already addressed that argument and you not only failed to respond to it, you are simply ignoring it and re-stating the same things again.

I don't know many people who throw around the n-word and live their lives working tirelessly for the rights of african americans...

You are living in a bubble where words don't mean anything. You are suggesting that a person cannot be judged by their OWN STATED VIEWS. That is fucking insane.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 02:04:12 AM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #69 on: May 12, 2019, 03:31:00 AM »


 I said pretty clearly that while I think the song is racist, Axl has clearly grown up in the past 30 years and learned from that mistake.


Again, the song is not racist, just portraits a young guy who is against the entire world and uses shitty and ignorant language. Again, you say it's racists because of some bad words and I'm saying is not, words don't mean  a shit if you don't look at who is using them e and why he's using them.
Tell me what's the meaning of putting togheter the words"POLICE and niggers" . Why nobody here remembers the word "police"? Oh well cause police is accused of being racist as well, so the racist bullshit wouldn't work... It's a fuckin oxymore, it's not difficult to understand, it's like saying I'm against everybody, get out of my way, It's a fuckin portrait of a guy against the entire world, the song is far from being racist. Try to sing "coloured man get out of my way" if lyrically it has the same effect...


"Paradoxes"? You shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of to look smart. It tends to have the opposite effect.

Yes, I am taking you literally because you are making arguments, not writing a fantasy novella. Please point out where you were using metaphors, I'll wait. This is a really weak diversion tactic to keep claiming you are being misinterpreted and changing your argument once it's clear you have no defense left.


No defense left? From what or who? You really made my day hahha rofl rofl Diversion tactic? Changing argumet? I'm not changing a shit, i'm adding things but it's just a waste of time. You don't understand, end of the story.

And for you self culture, LEARN THE FUCKIN DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PARADOX AND METAPHOR.

I din't use metaphors, i used pararadoxes which means I was exaggerating things to explain my point of view. When i'm talking about italians and the pope being a fuckin hitler, for example, it was a nonsense/paradoxical comparison in order to make you understand the difference between words and facts. ANd you took me literally, trying to explain me why i wasn't right.  rofl rofl

Anyway, think whatever you want, i said what i had to said


Duff was interviewed recently by Yahoo! Music and in the interview they mention the song and how it was written in character. He's asked if he was surprised that people didn't get that part:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/guns-n-roses-duff-mc-kagan-addresses-gun-control-in-school-somethings-gotta-be-done-165805785.html

(They're talking about it after the 46:44 mark in the full interview clip)

He says it was brilliant and super brave of Axl to step out and do that. He says the song is public commentary. Duff mentions that the song uses the verbiage of ill informed people on the street.

/jarmo


This. Simple as that.

As i said people don't get it because they like to point their fingers at anybody faster as  they can, taking words out of their context for different purposes or just because they have no mental abilities and they stuck on the words...Internet and poor culture lead to this situation at its maximum level nowadays, and it's pretty sad cause things like satire are going to be erased.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 03:49:19 AM by ITARocker » Logged
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« Reply #70 on: May 12, 2019, 04:43:38 AM »

Ok boss tell Axl is a racist. And don’t listen to gnr songs as the thread suggests cause that makes you racist too, i dont want you to be corrupted by his racist propaganda. And leave this forum and do any thing to close it, this is a racist forum cause people here support a racist man, right? Have fun doin it.

Dude we keep on talking about different things, i was using paradoxes to lead you to my point but ok, it doesn't work. I get your point, but on the otherside you keep on taking me litterally, but ok nevermind...

I really don't know why is so difficult to understand that the use of some words in a certain context (from a state of anger to the portait of a character or characters in a song) doesn't make you anything (not racist, not homofobic)... Maybe is not the perfect thing to do and some people may get offended, but is understandable. Or it was understandable, at this point, cause it looks like people i'm discussing with they are living in a bubble of a world made of words, judging people only by the words they are sayin' even if the way they live their lives shows the opposite...

Nobody said listening to GNR makes you racist. Why can't you have an honest discussion? It's clear you haven't comprehended a single thing I've said. I said pretty clearly that while I think the song is racist, Axl has clearly grown up in the past 30 years and learned from that mistake.

"Paradoxes"? You shouldn't use words you don't know the meaning of to look smart. It tends to have the opposite effect.

Yes, I am taking you literally because you are making arguments, not writing a fantasy novella. Please point out where you were using metaphors, I'll wait. This is a really weak diversion tactic to keep claiming you are being misinterpreted and changing your argument once it's clear you have no defense left.

I don't know why it's so difficult to understand that people who are not racist don't suddenly become racist when they are angry. Also, Axl did not write these lyrics in a blind rage. This is not the same as insults thrown during road rage. I already addressed that argument and you not only failed to respond to it, you are simply ignoring it and re-stating the same things again.

I don't know many people who throw around the n-word and live their lives working tirelessly for the rights of african americans...

You are living in a bubble where words don't mean anything. You are suggesting that a person cannot be judged by their OWN STATED VIEWS. That is fucking insane.

I'd still like him to put his money where his mouth is in the 'it's just words' and 'people might say the n word and not be racist' nonsense and routinely call black people the n word to their faces rather than spouting that nonsense on a forum. Pretty sure he might be 'corrected' rather quickly.

He seems to be very confused as to the difference between 'writing in character' and the fact that only racists use racist language in their everyday lives.
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« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2019, 07:39:21 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

Will political correctness kill classic movies?

The rise of political correctness can be seen across movie screens this weekend.

“The Hustle,” a gender-swap remake of 1988's “Dirty Rotten Scoundrels,” rails against the patriarchy between sight gags. “Avengers: Endgame” shoehorns a minor gay character into the story as a super-virtue-signal. “Long Shot” shows Seth Rogen apologizing for the United States bombing Japan to help end World War II.

Even older films, and the stars who made them great, are now seen through the PC prism. Just ask the estate of John Wayne. The legendary star got pummeled a few months ago, decades after his passing, for a racially insensitive Playboy interview in 1971. Some critics demanded that his name be stripped from John Wayne Airport in Orange County, Calif.

Singer Kate Smith’s film career is dwarfed by her radio, TV and stage accomplishments. Yet Smith’s recording of two 1930s songs deemed racist convinced two professional sports teams — the New York Yankees and the Philadelphia Flyers — to strip her iconic rendition of “God Bless America” from their programming.

It’s easy to imagine the culture attempting to do something similar to films that don’t mirror today's cultural mores. Molly Ringwald, who brought some of John Hughes’s best films to life, turned on her collaborator last year, saying that his films weren’t "woke" enough in our "Me Too" era.

Those films primarily hit theaters in the 1980s. So what about older films? Would any modern studio greenlight 1974’s “Blazing Saddles,” the Mel Brooks farce teeming with racial and sexual humor?

What about James Bond's early adventures, in which 007 treated female characters in a sexist fashion? Even a comedy classic such as 1959's "Some Like It Hot," featuring two men dressed in drag, could be insensitive given modern mores.

Could problematic films eventually be pulled from home video and streaming services?

Sound hysterical? It's currently in vogue to tear down statues that don’t align with current groupthink. So why would pop culture artifacts be spared?

In fact, it’s already been done.

Two years ago, a Memphis theater nixed a screening of the 1939 classic “Gone with the Wind” because of its “insensitive” content.

Disney’s Oscar-winning “Song of the South” won’t be seen on the company’s forthcoming streaming platform. The 1946 film’s antiquated, and some say racist, portrayal of black life turned the movie into cultural poison. It’s never made it to home video, and that’s unlikely to change in the near future.

The effort to wipe clean questionable content is happening elsewhere, too. The work itself doesn’t have to be “problematic” if the performer in front of the camera is. Bounce TV yanked reruns of “The Cosby Show” following star Bill Cosby’s conviction on rape charges.

When comedian Louis C.K. admitted to pleasuring himself in front of a series of women without their consent, he lost more than his FX series “Louie.” HBO announced it had expunged all C.K.-related programming from its service, including stand-up specials and his series “Lucky Louie.”

His 2017 film, “I Love You, Daddy,” never hit theaters as intended following his revelation. More than a year later, the film can’t be found on home video or streaming outlets, despite rave reviews from its festival run. The film’s star, Chloe Grace Moretz, even argued against the film’s release. “I think it should just kind of go away, honestly,” the millennial actress told the press.

Her age matters because her peers represent a potent part of the PC movement. Just ask any conservative speaker chased off campus by students frightened by unfamiliar viewpoints.

Woody Allen’s historic film career may be over, and not because of his age or any health woes. Allegations of child abuse against his daughter Dylan Farrow while never proven, finally caught up with the “Annie Hall” superstar. Amazon refused to release Allen’s latest work, “A Rainy Day in New York,” citing Allen’s "Me Too" statement in court.

One highly controversial film, and its collective shunning, predates the current PC mania. The 1915 drama “Birth of a Nation” glorified the KKK and dehumanized black slaves, among other revolting elements. Cultural critics marvel at some of its artistic achievements, given the technical constraints of the era, but its content makes any public display cultural dynamite.

Is that the best way to deal with art? Wouldn’t a screening of the film, followed by an informed dialogue on its place in culture and how the real KKK used it as a recruiting tool, be more illuminating?

Audiences could process the material on their own terms along with the vital context.

That’s the key word missing from PC-themed conversations — “context.” Without it, PC scolds too often win the day.

Hughes couldn’t have imagined his plucky teen comedy would one day be shamed by its star. And there’s a chance movies like “Long Shot,” “The Hustle,” and “Avengers: Endgame” may one day be seen as “problematic,” too, in ways we can’t imagine now. Who know how we’ll handle art that doesn’t fit the current zeitgeist by then?

Christian Toto is editor of the conservative entertainment site HollywoodInToto.com and host of the weekly "Hollywood in Toto Podcast."

https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/443282-will-political-correctness-kill-classic-movies
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 08:02:30 AM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #72 on: May 15, 2019, 01:33:03 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

Will political correctness kill classic movies?

Quick question, is this writer mentally impaired?

This is what you consider a salient point being made? There is as much substance to that screed as there is nutrition in a Twinkie.
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« Reply #73 on: May 15, 2019, 07:54:39 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

Will political correctness kill classic movies?

Quick question, is this writer mentally impaired?

This is what you consider a salient point being made? There is as much substance to that screed as there is nutrition in a Twinkie.

 

Considering some people's puritan attitudes towards art which doesn't match current political correctness, it isn't out of the realm of possibility in the future that other older works could get the sanitation treatment or banned altogether.

Something many are missing here- CONTEXT. Whether it be banning songs, movies or tearing down 100 year old statues, they miss the whole story and focus on a smaller point. 

Ill leave it at that. Don't want to get too far off topic here.
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« Reply #74 on: May 15, 2019, 08:47:32 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

I see more people saying this, and while I sure could believe he used a character in his mind while writing this song, I really don't buy it. He explained in many interviews at the time that the basis for the lyrics were his personal experiences (being molested by a man, getting arrested all the time, getting annoyed by all the black people tryng to sell him stuff when coming to LA, being looked away by foreign owners at the gas station). The song itself is also very similar to his life story and his personality ("some say I'm crazy"). Add to that the band members feeling really uncomfortable with the lyrics and not wanting to release it, I'm pretty sure it was less of a character than we think. It was just his personal experiences, written from the perspective of someone struggling with a world (LA) he did not know yet (including anger and frustration). In the past -as far as I can remember- Axl always defended the song from his personal pov and experiences. You don't do that when it's a character, then you explicitly explain why the character would feel that way. Not you yourself.

That being said, I would never EVER be for censoring any form of art. That's why CONTEXT is everything. Look at Eddie Murphy's Raw or Delirious: it would be extremely offensive these days but back then people just talked like that. No point in removing all of that from every possible outlet, cause it's still funny as hell.
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« Reply #75 on: May 15, 2019, 10:30:21 AM »

You can use personal experiences and base a character on those. Doesn't mean it's your own beliefs though.





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« Reply #76 on: May 16, 2019, 05:17:12 AM »

You guys have pretty much summed it up, its a long but interesting read. You've said all the arguments pro and con, but unfortunately skipped over all that's said and kept on going at each other.
The one thing in the 80'ies, that I admire, is that there was a punk attitude, where you could say stuff even though its against the mainstream political correctness. I personally would like to have such an ability... to use it when I think is needed... but my "responsibility and politness does not allow me. Guns have a lot of impolite songs, that I think are really cool...
Guns addressed something in One in a Million, that was actually happening... its a real feeling that someone, somewhere felt. They portrayed or put that feeling into raw words and into a cool song. I too think it was very brave of them to do so. There is a very small line between bravery and stupidity... Brave because they addressed something so delicate, yet they knew they would take crap for it if (when) interpreted in a wrong way...
Now days we have our own social challenges. If I made a song about how I hate dog poop on the sidewalks, screaming babies in restaurants, or filth left in parks by immigrants... It does not mean I hate dogs, babies in restaurants or immigrants that have to fleed their own home in search for a normal life... I don't, I have dogs, I have kids and I try to help immigrants as much as I can, but it can irritate me when I am not in my best mood...
p.s.
In this part of the world, where I live, words such as Nigg..., gypsy, cop, etc. have less of a foul slang meaning, and do not have the same weight as it seems to have in the States. Especially when said in English. On the contrary, it has a cool association. We have a famous white rapper who goes along the name "Nigger". Its a different culture with a very different history. That is how I understood some of the arguments of ITARocker.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 05:19:29 AM by Vezara » Logged
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« Reply #77 on: May 17, 2019, 03:26:27 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

Will political correctness kill classic movies?

Quick question, is this writer mentally impaired?

This is what you consider a salient point being made? There is as much substance to that screed as there is nutrition in a Twinkie.

 

Considering some people's puritan attitudes towards art which doesn't match current political correctness, it isn't out of the realm of possibility in the future that other older works could get the sanitation treatment or banned altogether.

Something many are missing here- CONTEXT. Whether it be banning songs, movies or tearing down 100 year old statues, they miss the whole story and focus on a smaller point. 

Ill leave it at that. Don't want to get too far off topic here.

LOL, banned? How many songs have been banned for not being "PC"? As I recall, the right wing "moral majority" lead the crusade against music in the '80s and '90s and even they never actually banned anything.

So you're doubling down on defending statues glorifying TRAITORS TO THE COUNTRY who FOUGHT TO PRESERVE SLAVERY? Have you no decency or at the very least, shame?

You and the others keep bleating "context" but repeatedly fail to make any argument explaining the context that supposedly exculpates anything...
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« Reply #78 on: May 17, 2019, 08:22:13 AM »

   Here is a good read about applying today's PC culture to older works - somewhat related to what we are discussing here-  As I mentioned before, with one in a million I believe that Axl was playing a character and the lyrics were not his personal views, but he gets slammed anyway due to the song being misunderstood.

Will political correctness kill classic movies?

Quick question, is this writer mentally impaired?

This is what you consider a salient point being made? There is as much substance to that screed as there is nutrition in a Twinkie.

 

Considering some people's puritan attitudes towards art which doesn't match current political correctness, it isn't out of the realm of possibility in the future that other older works could get the sanitation treatment or banned altogether.

Something many are missing here- CONTEXT. Whether it be banning songs, movies or tearing down 100 year old statues, they miss the whole story and focus on a smaller point. 

Ill leave it at that. Don't want to get too far off topic here.

LOL, banned? How many songs have been banned for not being "PC"? As I recall, the right wing "moral majority" lead the crusade against music in the '80s and '90s and even they never actually banned anything.

So you're doubling down on defending statues glorifying TRAITORS TO THE COUNTRY who FOUGHT TO PRESERVE SLAVERY? Have you no decency or at the very least, shame?

You and the others keep bleating "context" but repeatedly fail to make any argument explaining the context that supposedly exculpates anything...

Again, CONTEXT.

For example, the purpose of erecting the statues in the 1st place was not done with the explicit purpose of honoring slavery.  Some of them were brilliant military leaders and strategists. If a municipality deems a statue should be moved or taken down, no problem with that, but having an angry mob pulldown a statue they deem as racist doesn't enlighten anyone or change anything.   Ever think at this point the statues of historical figures from the Civil War era remind us that slavery  was a stain on our country and we should not forget that rather than clean up or whitewash the past?  Maybe we should tear down Auschwitz while we are at it for the same type of reasons.

Hopefully my response will let you know where I'm coming from ( but I doubt it, after all you've judged me to have no decency or shame. Amazing you can determine that about me from a message board post  Cheesy )

Remember the old saying, if you dont like what is on TV, change the channel.





« Last Edit: May 17, 2019, 08:40:09 AM by Senator Blutarsky » Logged

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« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2019, 10:09:47 AM »

Duff was interviewed recently by Yahoo! Music and in the interview they mention the song and how it was written in character. He's asked if he was surprised that people didn't get that part:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/guns-n-roses-duff-mc-kagan-addresses-gun-control-in-school-somethings-gotta-be-done-165805785.html

(They're talking about it after the 46:44 mark in the full interview clip)

He says it was brilliant and super brave of Axl to step out and do that. He says the song is public commentary. Duff mentions that the song uses the verbiage of ill informed people on the street.



/jarmo


are there any other quotes from anyone in the band that this song was written "in character", or is this the first time that was ever mentioned?

I was thinking the whole "in character" thing was just an assumption by some in the fan base to make Axl not look so bad. 
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