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cineater
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« Reply #880 on: October 20, 2020, 10:29:37 AM »

Oh, I get it.

I'm just puzzled by this myth that he's somehow a man of the people, just a regular working man.

He's part of a rich elite that doesn't have to worry about things ordinary people worry about.


Yet he's promised to drain the swamp etc..... He hired his family to work at the White House. Like it's suddenly a royal palace (or worse)... It's all very ironic.





/jarmo


No, man of the people is Biden.  Trump has always portrayed himself as a rich business man who just keeps getting richer because he's so good at business.  He has ran with the swamp because they wanted his money and he wanted favors.  There's a lot of politicians not talking.  Dare say, if you look back over who contributed to their campaigns and who might contribute in the future to get favors for their business the name Trump would probably be there.  Nobody asks about that.  Or how all these politicians get so rich when their salaries aren't that great.

Have you seen the movie the swamp on HBO? That explains a lot of it. A large part of it goes back to the early 90s when Newt Gingrich was speaker of the house.

Nope but I read Keith Richards' book.  hihi  How they got out of a drug bust back in the 60's in Arkansas and allowed in the country is exactly how it works.  This kind of thing has been business practice for a long time.  You really have to wonder about the Trump/Christie connection.  I'm not saying it's all bad.  Connections really help move things along but there's a darkside you can get sucked into real quick.
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« Reply #881 on: October 21, 2020, 01:06:38 PM »

https://thehill.com/homenews/521978-lawyers-say-they-cant-find-parents-of-545-migrant-children-report

Lawyers appointed to represent hundreds of children who were separated from their parents as a result of President Trump's 2018 policy say they are having a difficult time locating the adults, fearing many of them were deported while their children stayed in the country.

The lawyers said the parents of 545 children have still yet to be located and they believe about two-thirds of those individuals were deported to Central America, according to court filing by the American Civil Liberties Union, NBC News reported on Tuesday.

The ACLU and other law firms were appointed to represent the children, many of whom were kept in detention facilities away from their parents as part of the Trump administration's "zero tolerance" policy, which sparked backlash in 2018 and was eventually scrapped.

NBC News, which has done extensive reporting on the crisis at the Southwest border, estimated some 2,800 families were separated by U.S. Customs and Border Patrol as a means to deter further illegal immigration.   

The Hill's Morning Report - Sponsored by Goldman Sachs - Pelosi,...
The Hill's 12:30 Report — Presented by the Walton Family Foundation...
“It is critical to find out as much as possible about who was responsible for this horrific practice while not losing sight of the fact that hundreds of families have still not been found and remain separated," Lee Gelernt, deputy director of the ACLU Immigrants' Rights Project, told the outlet. "There is so much more work to be done to find these families."

Gelernt continued: "People ask when we will find all of these families and, sadly, I can’t give an answer. I just don’t know. But we will not stop looking until we have found every one of the families, no matter how long it takes. The tragic reality is that hundreds of parents were deported to Central America without their children, who remain here with foster families or distant relatives.”

Trump ran on a hardline immigration policy in 2016, promising to "build a wall" along the southwest border with Mexico and make the country pay for it.

I am utterly disgusted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNzVP8B01Wg

"Beyond America's borders does not live a lesser people" This dudes shirt sums it up perfectly.
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jarmo
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« Reply #882 on: October 21, 2020, 03:55:42 PM »

I see certain people going on and on about Biden's son... Yet, the Trump clan is in the White House and none of these same people seem bothered by anything they've done.




/jarmo
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« Reply #883 on: October 21, 2020, 04:55:52 PM »

I see certain people going on and on about Biden's son... Yet, the Trump clan is in the White House and none of these same people seem bothered by anything they've done.




/jarmo


The Hunter Biden story is a non-starter with everyone except Trump's base - which are already not moving
This was another giant miscalculation - no one in their right mind believes Biden was taking cash here - which is what the implication is
Biden had too much respect for Obama to get caught up in anything like that anyway and risk tarnishing what he believes will be a solid legacy.

This is a sleazy as it gets
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cineater
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« Reply #884 on: October 21, 2020, 05:01:52 PM »

The news media, at least the channel I was on, caved a little this week.  Little concern there that Trump might win.  I was just as shocked as they were the last time when the results started rolling in showing Trump was winning.  But there was a part of me that took joy in seeing that the media hadn't determined the race.  They were so sure Hilary had it and they've been very Biden all the way this time.
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« Reply #885 on: October 21, 2020, 07:49:15 PM »

The news media, at least the channel I was on, caved a little this week.  Little concern there that Trump might win.  I was just as shocked as they were the last time when the results started rolling in showing Trump was winning.  But there was a part of me that took joy in seeing that the media hadn't determined the race.  They were so sure Hilary had it and they've been very Biden all the way this time.

Absolutely - yes
This does ring very similar - can't deny it
Except last time everyone was pretty sure Trump was an unpresidential self-centered ahole.
This time they are certain.

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pilferk
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« Reply #886 on: October 21, 2020, 09:05:07 PM »

The news media, at least the channel I was on, caved a little this week.  Little concern there that Trump might win.  I was just as shocked as they were the last time when the results started rolling in showing Trump was winning.  But there was a part of me that took joy in seeing that the media hadn't determined the race.  They were so sure Hilary had it and they've been very Biden all the way this time.

Totally with you on this one.

They could have it totally wrong.  I think it's a close race, no matter what polls say.

We'll see in about 13 days.
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« Reply #887 on: October 21, 2020, 11:56:07 PM »

I see certain people going on and on about Biden's son... Yet, the Trump clan is in the White House and none of these same people seem bothered by anything they've done.




/jarmo


It's so disgusting. Not only are they attacking an innocent family member who has nothing to do with the campaign, they are attacking every American who has struggled with substance abuse and making it clear that they don't actually give a shit about those people.

And of course, it wouldn't be Trump if you couldn't directly tie it back to projection of his own family's behavior. Eric was literally testifying in court two weeks ago because he, Ivanka and Jr were part of a fraudulent charity scheme. Ivanka and Jr also defrauded investors of Trump SoHo, saying units-sold capacity was well above where it actually was, in order to convince investors to dump their money into units. This is textbook fraud. The only reason she wasn't put in prison over it was because her dad donated to the re-election campaign of the prosecutor in charge of the case: Cy Vance. He subsequently dropped the case, baffling experts as it was an open-and-shut case.

Trump is the one who is putting unqualified family members in positions of political power, not Biden. In fact, his handling of the Ukrainian prosecutor only proved his integrity, as he fought to remove the corrupt one who refused to look into Burisma, and wanted to replace him with somebody that would.
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tim_m
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« Reply #888 on: October 22, 2020, 01:46:36 AM »

I see certain people going on and on about Biden's son... Yet, the Trump clan is in the White House and none of these same people seem bothered by anything they've done.




/jarmo


Exactly, they're bitching about money Hunter might have made while a private citizen, but Trump's kids are making millions while working on the Whitehouse.
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tim_m
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« Reply #889 on: October 22, 2020, 01:52:16 AM »

I see certain people going on and on about Biden's son... Yet, the Trump clan is in the White House and none of these same people seem bothered by anything they've done.




/jarmo


It's so disgusting. Not only are they attacking an innocent family member who has nothing to do with the campaign, they are attacking every American who has struggled with substance abuse and making it clear that they don't actually give a shit about those people.

And of course, it wouldn't be Trump if you couldn't directly tie it back to projection of his own family's behavior. Eric was literally testifying in court two weeks ago because he, Ivanka and Jr were part of a fraudulent charity scheme. Ivanka and Jr also defrauded investors of Trump SoHo, saying units-sold capacity was well above where it actually was, in order to convince investors to dump their money into units. This is textbook fraud. The only reason she wasn't put in prison over it was because her dad donated to the re-election campaign of the prosecutor in charge of the case: Cy Vance. He subsequently dropped the case, baffling experts as it was an open-and-shut case.

Trump is the one who is putting unqualified family members in positions of political power, not Biden. In fact, his handling of the Ukrainian prosecutor only proved his integrity, as he fought to remove the corrupt one who refused to look into Burisma, and wanted to replace him with somebody that would.

My mom is buying it hook line and sinker.
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tim_m
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« Reply #890 on: October 22, 2020, 01:54:30 AM »

The news media, at least the channel I was on, caved a little this week.  Little concern there that Trump might win.  I was just as shocked as they were the last time when the results started rolling in showing Trump was winning.  But there was a part of me that took joy in seeing that the media hadn't determined the race.  They were so sure Hilary had it and they've been very Biden all the way this time.

Totally with you on this one.

They could have it totally wrong.  I think it's a close race, no matter what polls say.

We'll see in about 13 days.

It absolutely should happen again, we can't get complacent this time. Early voting looks very good for Democrats but that can change. I still say more likely then not we have president elect Biden, but don't discount the Trumpers, they'd some crazy rabid mofos.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2020, 11:15:51 AM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #891 on: October 22, 2020, 10:59:54 PM »

I'm voting on the 3rd because mail in and early votes will be a key part of Trump's attempt to overturn the results of the election. If he's ahead on the day of, but then gets beaten as the mail-in votes come in, he will claim it's evidence of rigging and take it to his newly subservient Supreme Court. The risk of a repeat of 2000 is very real.
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« Reply #892 on: October 23, 2020, 03:14:44 AM »

I voted absentee, but i delivered mine directly to the county clerk yesterday.
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pilferk
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« Reply #893 on: October 23, 2020, 07:03:21 AM »

It was nice to see a more traditional debate last night.  I think the biggest surprise was there was no big surprise in terms of format.

I think Trump did much better.  He got his shots in, though I think a lot of the Russian Disinformation stuff is going to fall on deaf ears, except for those that are already in his back pocket.  Everyone outside that circle is chalking it up to lies.

Biden was, once again, lucid, policy specific, and able to explain his actual vision (and not just lie or attack his opponent).  He had some decent shots, but he missed several other slam dunks.  I guess when there is THAT much disinformation flying it's hard to jump on.  He should have pushed the Woodward stuff harder, and he should have leaned into the fact that the last administration he was part of was dealing with an Obstructionist Republican Congress in both houses.  I know he mentioned it, but...not enough.

And when Trump said "You gotta convince them"....Joe should have looked straight at him and said "Yeah? Where's that stimulus bill?"  and then, in his next response, said "The President just proved that you should vote Dem for the House and the Senate.  The democrats will actually work to further good legislation.  They're reasonable.  The Republicans will simply obstruct. Even if something is good for the country."

Anyway...I think it was pretty close to a draw.  We'll see if that moves the needle.
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« Reply #894 on: October 23, 2020, 08:39:49 AM »

It was nice to see a more traditional debate last night.  I think the biggest surprise was there was no big surprise in terms of format.

I think Trump did much better.  He got his shots in, though I think a lot of the Russian Disinformation stuff is going to fall on deaf ears, except for those that are already in his back pocket.  Everyone outside that circle is chalking it up to lies.

Biden was, once again, lucid, policy specific, and able to explain his actual vision (and not just lie or attack his opponent).  He had some decent shots, but he missed several other slam dunks.  I guess when there is THAT much disinformation flying it's hard to jump on.  He should have pushed the Woodward stuff harder, and he should have leaned into the fact that the last administration he was part of was dealing with an Obstructionist Republican Congress in both houses.  I know he mentioned it, but...not enough.

And when Trump said "You gotta convince them"....Joe should have looked straight at him and said "Yeah? Where's that stimulus bill?"  and then, in his next response, said "The President just proved that you should vote Dem for the House and the Senate.  The democrats will actually work to further good legislation.  They're reasonable.  The Republicans will simply obstruct. Even if something is good for the country."

Anyway...I think it was pretty close to a draw.  We'll see if that moves the needle.

It might be too late to that even matter simply because how many have already voted. Here in Texas we've already had about 6 million. Which is 50% of what they're expecting.
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« Reply #895 on: October 23, 2020, 10:17:04 AM »

Trump did not gain any undecided voters tonight in the CNN focus group in North Carolina. 7 of the 11 said they are voting Biden. None said Trump at all. Another said if ACB is voted on to the SCOTUS he will also vote Biden. Uhoh.
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« Reply #896 on: October 23, 2020, 04:17:44 PM »

It was nice to see a more traditional debate last night.  I think the biggest surprise was there was no big surprise in terms of format.

I think Trump did much better.  He got his shots in, though I think a lot of the Russian Disinformation stuff is going to fall on deaf ears, except for those that are already in his back pocket.  Everyone outside that circle is chalking it up to lies.

Biden was, once again, lucid, policy specific, and able to explain his actual vision (and not just lie or attack his opponent).  He had some decent shots, but he missed several other slam dunks.  I guess when there is THAT much disinformation flying it's hard to jump on.  He should have pushed the Woodward stuff harder, and he should have leaned into the fact that the last administration he was part of was dealing with an Obstructionist Republican Congress in both houses.  I know he mentioned it, but...not enough.

And when Trump said "You gotta convince them"....Joe should have looked straight at him and said "Yeah? Where's that stimulus bill?"  and then, in his next response, said "The President just proved that you should vote Dem for the House and the Senate.  The democrats will actually work to further good legislation.  They're reasonable.  The Republicans will simply obstruct. Even if something is good for the country."

Anyway...I think it was pretty close to a draw.  We'll see if that moves the needle.

It was better than the last for certain and Trump was definitely well-coached in terms of demeanor - but of course he can't help with the childish imitations and faces -
I don't know where you get this lucid and clear Biden impression from though. I still don't see it in the man and he sounds confused more often than not.
I agree that not many were watching and thinking - ok now I'm gonna vote for so and so.
Either way - a better watch and hopefully that's the last we hear about Biden's kid.
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cineater
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« Reply #897 on: October 23, 2020, 04:55:17 PM »

I thought Biden threw Obama under the bus a couple of times with his "I wasn't president" remarks.  If he didn't agree with some of the things that didn't work out with that administration, what did he not agree with that did work out?  He admitted to the problems with Obama care, plans to fix those and call it Biden care.  That's some ego.  I heard him say where he's spending all this money but I'm not hearing where it's going to come from.  I don't get why we are pushing forward hard with saving the planet and places like China who are in much worse shape aren't even starting until a later date.  50,000 charging stations on our highways does not sound like near enough and how are we producing all that energy?  I like his vision but I have to agree with Trump, the technology isn't there. How long does it take to charge a car? I'm thinking about cable/cell phone companies, all the equipment for that wasn't put out there by the government, it was the companies who did that.  What are the companies who would do that saying about this push forward and the timelines?  I had a lot of questions about how his vision is going to happen.

I thought Trump did well but was lacking in how he's actually going to do stuff too.  I liked his comment about leaving the minimum wage amount up to the states although he didn't say that at first.  Cost of living in different parts of the country is way different.  His talking about little windows wasn't right.  All the buildings I see use passive solar energy and the windows are huge, shaded in the summer but you still have a nice view out.  Using the word nasty to describe other countries was offensive, polluted would have been better.

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« Reply #898 on: October 24, 2020, 01:32:08 AM »

I heard him say where he's spending all this money but I'm not hearing where it's going to come from.

Why is this always asked of the Dem candidate but not the Republican? Are people under the impression that ramping up border security doesn't cost money? That housing migrants and enforcing travel bans doesn't cost money? That cutting taxes doesn't cost money? That increasing offshore drilling doesn't cost money? That the Space Force doesn't cost money? That creating a "religious freedom" division in the Office of Civil Rights doesn't cost money? I could go on...

He's proposed raising the top tax bracket ($400k+) but it would be disingenuous for him to say how every specific goal is funded since they would have to be passed through Congress as bills. Hell, even where a bill starts is way different from where it often ends. Presidents have never had platforms that detailed because the specifics will inevitably change and they'll just be attacked for "breaking a promise".

Quote
 I don't get why we are pushing forward hard with saving the planet and places like China who are in much worse shape aren't even starting until a later date.

We can't control China, they are a sovereign nation. And more importantly, you can't blame China because OUR American corporations outsourced jobs to exploit their cheap labor and therefore moved all our manufacturing emissions to China as well.

What we could do, is tell our corporations that if they want to keep operating in America, all of their foreign factories must meet US emissions standards.

Quote
 50,000 charging stations on our highways does not sound like near enough and how are we producing all that energy?  I like his vision but I have to agree with Trump, the technology isn't there. How long does it take to charge a car?

From our existing power grid, which is getting greener every day. What are you even asking? We can easily handle the load, if that's what you mean.

The technology is absolutely there for chargers. The biggest impediment to mass EV adoption is a lack of charging infrastructure because no private businesses want to take the investment risk.

How long does it take to charge a car? That differs from car to car and what does that have to do with anything? Why would you expect Biden to mention that? Focusing on charge times is missing the point; EV owners do their charging at home every night just like you do with your cellphone. They don't have to fill up at stations like gas cars do because they leave home every day with 100% battery life. Charging stations are really just for road trips. The average person drives about 40 miles per day. Most new EVs have ranges around 300 miles.

Quote
I'm thinking about cable/cell phone companies, all the equipment for that wasn't put out there by the government, it was the companies who did that.  What are the companies who would do that saying about this push forward and the timelines?

It's not a "push forward". There are already about 100,000 charging stations in America. All he's talking about doing is adding 50k more. There are no "timelines". Private companies try to judge retroactively based on demand because they need to turn a profit. The problem with that is, people don't buy EVs if there isn't enough charging infrastructure to make them feel comfortable in doing so. The government is more capable of taking those kind of risks because it's not seeking a profit and has the incentive to induce demand. That's why so much breakthrough technology was actually created by the government and was simply capitalized on by private companies. The idea that the private markets drive innovation is hilariously uninformed. The capacitive touch screen technology on your iPhone? Government funded research. Xerox technology? The internet? Wifi? All products of government research.

I'm no historian but I know telephone lines have been government subsidized throughout history. So what if they were originally put down by private companies? That doesn't mean it's the best way or the only way to build out infrastructure. Look at how Fedex and UPS won't even serve more remote, rural areas of the country because it's not profitable enough. It takes the USPS to actually serve every single American. There would not be phone lines out in Bumfuck Iowa without government subsidies. The biggest lack of chargers in America is, you guessed it, out in the middle of the country.

Coincidentally, I came across this:

Millions of poor lose access to cellphone service under Trump administration reforms

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2019/11/05/under-trump-millions-poor-lose-cellphone-service/2482112001/
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jarmo
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« Reply #899 on: October 24, 2020, 05:22:57 AM »

What we could do, is tell our corporations that if they want to keep operating in America, all of their foreign factories must meet US emissions standards.


Kinda like products made elsewhere, but sold in country X or region Y, they must adhere to the safety regulations in said place.

California did something like that decades ago. If you were a car manufacturer and you wanted to sell your cars there, you had to make sure they would pass the tough California regulations regarding exhausts. Which in turn meant most cars were better in that regard than they otherwise would've been...






/jarmo
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