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Author Topic: The NEW 2020 Election Thread  (Read 23982 times)
jarmo
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« Reply #900 on: October 24, 2020, 08:31:07 AM »

Question for all Americans here, how do you feel about the voting system?

Is it too easy to vote? Everyone's cheating? Do you think your system for voting is the best in the world, and an example of how it should be in a democracy?







/jarmo
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« Reply #901 on: October 24, 2020, 08:39:40 AM »

It's too hard, it should be a holiday. They make it even harder on minorities closing polling places etc. Not even close to the best, a lot of places have voting machines a decade old or more that can't be patched or even find replacement parts for. It should be a national holiday. It should be done on paper ballot. I would also make it mandatory.
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« Reply #902 on: October 24, 2020, 10:22:11 AM »

It's too confusing and too hard.

I have teenage kids who can tell me how to register on a million social network platforms but asked me how they vote

That's a problem.

I agree with Tim - it needs to be a holiday and as easy as being done from a phone.
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« Reply #903 on: October 24, 2020, 10:56:16 AM »

I wouldn't ever do it from a phone or any connected internet device. Too easily compromised.
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« Reply #904 on: October 24, 2020, 11:00:12 AM »

Question for all Americans here, how do you feel about the voting system?

Is it too easy to vote? Everyone's cheating? Do you think your system for voting is the best in the world, and an example of how it should be in a democracy?







/jarmo


I'm not sure what it is like in your country, but just to give you an idea of how difficult it is to vote here. They're talking about possibly reaching 150 million turnout give or take. That is only 65% of the registered population. It would be our highest percentage wise since 1908. If we get to 65.5% it would be the largest since 1900 when we had 73%. The 150 would top the previous record of total voters set in 2016 which was 138 million. Just for reference we have roughly 250 million who are eligible to vote and roughly 215 million registered.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 11:42:13 AM by tim_m » Logged
jarmo
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« Reply #905 on: October 24, 2020, 01:01:54 PM »

This is what I'm used to:

You get an envelope in the mail with the paperwork you need to bring to vote. Also included is information on how to.

Depending on the election, you can vote in advance by taking the paperwork and ID to the advance voting place. If you choose, you can also vote on election day.


Whenf I vote in the Finnish elections, it's the same deal. I get an envelope and it also includes the dates and places where I can vote here in Sweden (the dates usually fall on weekends. This is advance voting because it's abroad).


But yeah, not very difficult. You just gotta bring the paperwork and ID to the right place on the right date.




/jarmo



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tim_m
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« Reply #906 on: October 24, 2020, 02:48:59 PM »

Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?
« Last Edit: October 24, 2020, 02:51:23 PM by tim_m » Logged
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« Reply #907 on: October 24, 2020, 02:59:44 PM »

What we could do, is tell our corporations that if they want to keep operating in America, all of their foreign factories must meet US emissions standards.


Kinda like products made elsewhere, but sold in country X or region Y, they must adhere to the safety regulations in said place.

California did something like that decades ago. If you were a car manufacturer and you wanted to sell your cars there, you had to make sure they would pass the tough California regulations regarding exhausts. Which in turn meant most cars were better in that regard than they otherwise would've been...

At least until trump revoked CA's waiver to set their own standards. Which was created because their unique topography tends to trap emissions. And that's not the first time he's literally withheld life saving measures from entire states because they didn't vote for him.

Question for all Americans here, how do you feel about the voting system?

Is it too easy to vote? Everyone's cheating? Do you think your system for voting is the best in the world, and an example of how it should be in a democracy?

It can never be too easy to vote. Cheating/fraud is a non-issue; it's been studied to death and always ends up being a rounding error.

Far from the best in the world, but also far from the worst. Ranked choice voting would be a huge improvement, as would eliminating the anti-democratic electoral college. Hell, I'd probably even eliminate the senate, or at least make it more proportionally representative.
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« Reply #908 on: October 24, 2020, 03:04:06 PM »

Feds say far-right group coordinated attack on Minneapolis police precinct during protest

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/522509-feds-say-far-right-group-coordinated-attack-on-minneapolis-police-precinct
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jarmo
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« Reply #909 on: October 24, 2020, 05:24:12 PM »

Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?

I don't remember ever registering. So I assume it's automatic for anyone who is old enough to vote, can vote.

Voting isn't mandatory.


It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley





/jarmo
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« Reply #910 on: October 24, 2020, 07:19:18 PM »

Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?

I don't remember ever registering. So I assume it's automatic for anyone who is old enough to vote, can vote.

Voting isn't mandatory.


It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley





/jarmo


This is simplicity and this is refreshing
Again - doesn't have to be that hard.
American childeren have been born into a world where a chunk of their earnings - even at their first jobs - are just gone
They accept it as reality
Voting should be as simple as the damn taxes removed

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GypsySoul
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« Reply #911 on: October 25, 2020, 01:43:37 AM »

This is what I'm used to:

You get an envelope in the mail with the paperwork you need to bring to vote. Also included is information on how to.

Depending on the election, you can vote in advance by taking the paperwork and ID to the advance voting place. If you choose, you can also vote on election day.


When I vote in the Finnish elections, it's the same deal. I get an envelope and it also includes the dates and places where I can vote here in Sweden (the dates usually fall on weekends. This is advance voting because it's abroad).


But yeah, not very difficult. You just gotta bring the paperwork and ID to the right place on the right date.

/jarmo
Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?

I don't remember ever registering. So I assume it's automatic for anyone who is old enough to vote, can vote.

Voting isn't mandatory.


It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley


/jarmo

Not sure what tim_m is talking about but what you (jarmo) described is basically how it normally works in the USA. Actually, it's easier than what you describe because here you can request an "absentee ballot" even if you live in the same place where you would vote in person, or if you're living in another state or living outside the USA or if you're in the military, etc., and you just mail it in. As long as it's postmarked by midnight of election day, it's counted. If choose to vote in person, normally you get your sample ballot through the mail that lists the location of where you are to vote. There they match your signature/ID to your signature/ID on file and then you vote by whatever method is available there.

The "controversy" this year is that everyone received a mail-in ballot and each state has a different process to verify (or not verify) the authenticity of the person's identity. Also, how and when the votes are counted is another controversial aspect to this year's voting process that is decided by each individual state. Some states have early in-person voting, some do not.
 
You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Voting is not mandatory. It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley
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tim_m
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« Reply #912 on: October 25, 2020, 04:46:42 AM »

What we could do, is tell our corporations that if they want to keep operating in America, all of their foreign factories must meet US emissions standards.


Kinda like products made elsewhere, but sold in country X or region Y, they must adhere to the safety regulations in said place.

California did something like that decades ago. If you were a car manufacturer and you wanted to sell your cars there, you had to make sure they would pass the tough California regulations regarding exhausts. Which in turn meant most cars were better in that regard than they otherwise would've been...

At least until trump revoked CA's waiver to set their own standards. Which was created because their unique topography tends to trap emissions. And that's not the first time he's literally withheld life saving measures from entire states because they didn't vote for him.

Question for all Americans here, how do you feel about the voting system?

Is it too easy to vote? Everyone's cheating? Do you think your system for voting is the best in the world, and an example of how it should be in a democracy?

It can never be too easy to vote. Cheating/fraud is a non-issue; it's been studied to death and always ends up being a rounding error.

Far from the best in the world, but also far from the worst. Ranked choice voting would be a huge improvement, as would eliminating the anti-democratic electoral college. Hell, I'd probably even eliminate the senate, or at least make it more proportionally representative.
Ranked choice voting would be a good idea too. As for the Senate, we should go back to the way it was in the constitution. Where they were selected by state legislatures.
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« Reply #913 on: October 25, 2020, 04:47:15 AM »

Feds say far-right group coordinated attack on Minneapolis police precinct during protest

https://thehill.com/homenews/news/522509-feds-say-far-right-group-coordinated-attack-on-minneapolis-police-precinct
I'm shocked! Shocked i tell you!
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tim_m
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« Reply #914 on: October 25, 2020, 04:48:03 AM »

Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?

I don't remember ever registering. So I assume it's automatic for anyone who is old enough to vote, can vote.

Voting isn't mandatory.


It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley





/jarmo

Here it varies by state, some have automatic registration, most do not.
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tim_m
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« Reply #915 on: October 25, 2020, 04:52:45 AM »

This is what I'm used to:

You get an envelope in the mail with the paperwork you need to bring to vote. Also included is information on how to.

Depending on the election, you can vote in advance by taking the paperwork and ID to the advance voting place. If you choose, you can also vote on election day.


When I vote in the Finnish elections, it's the same deal. I get an envelope and it also includes the dates and places where I can vote here in Sweden (the dates usually fall on weekends. This is advance voting because it's abroad).


But yeah, not very difficult. You just gotta bring the paperwork and ID to the right place on the right date.

/jarmo
Yeah, we don't have any of that. Does that include a ballot?  Do you have automatic registration in either Sweden or Finland? Is voting mandatory?

I don't remember ever registering. So I assume it's automatic for anyone who is old enough to vote, can vote.

Voting isn't mandatory.


It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley


/jarmo

Not sure what tim_m is talking about but what you (jarmo) described is basically how it normally works in the USA. Actually, it's easier than what you describe because here you can request an "absentee ballot" even if you live in the same place where you would vote in person, or if you're living in another state or living outside the USA or if you're in the military, etc., and you just mail it in. As long as it's postmarked by midnight of election day, it's counted. If choose to vote in person, normally you get your sample ballot through the mail that lists the location of where you are to vote. There they match your signature/ID to your signature/ID on file and then you vote by whatever method is available there.

The "controversy" this year is that everyone received a mail-in ballot and each state has a different process to verify (or not verify) the authenticity of the person's identity. Also, how and when the votes are counted is another controversial aspect to this year's voting process that is decided by each individual state. Some states have early in-person voting, some do not.
 
You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Voting is not mandatory. It's not rocket science. If you're 18, you can vote..... Smiley


I get the impression Jarmo is saying he gets it every year without having to request it. That is not the case in every state here. Not every state is sending everyone a ballot either. a few are in addition to the 5 states that have done it for years.  You can't vote in a state you don't live in either. Where are you getting that from and in most states it has to be postmarked by 7pm on election day then received by 7pm the day after.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2020, 07:02:22 AM by tim_m » Logged
jarmo
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« Reply #916 on: October 25, 2020, 06:04:53 AM »

You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Because most people here are registered with a home address tied to your social security number.....

Every election they send out the envelopes to people's home addresses.



/jarmo
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tim_m
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« Reply #917 on: October 25, 2020, 06:46:00 AM »

You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Because most people here are registered with a home address tied to your social security number.....

Every election they send out the envelopes to people's home addresses.



/jarmo


Yep Sweden and Finland both have automatic registration etc.


Finland
Voter registration in Finland is automatic and based on the national population register. Each citizen is assigned an identification number at birth. Permanent residents are recorded in this register even if they are not citizens, and their citizenship status is indicated in the register. People in the register are legally obliged to notify the register keeper of changes of address. Changing the address in the register automatically notifies all other public bodies (for example the tax district for local taxation, the social security authorities, the conscription authorities) and certain trusted private ones (e.g. banks and insurance companies), making the process of moving residence very simple. Close to election time, the government mails a notification to registered persons informing them of the election and where and when to cast their votes. Only citizens may vote in national elections, but all residents may vote in local elections.[5]


Sweden
Voter registration in Sweden is automatic and based on the national population register, Folkbokföringsregistret, administered by the Swedish Tax Agency, where all citizens and residents of Sweden are included. Each person is assigned a ten digit national identification number, which include the person's date of birth. The register is used for tax lists, voter lists, membership in the universal health care system, public insurance, official record of residence, and other purposes. Permanent residents shall be recorded in this register even if they are not citizens but enjoy right of residence, and their citizenship status is indicated in the register. Changing the address in the central register automatically notifies all other public bodies (for example the tax district for local taxation, the social security authorities, the conscription authorities) and certain trusted private ones (e.g. banks and insurance companies), making the administration of a move of residence very simple.[citation needed]

All eligible voters receive a letter in the mail to their registered address of 30 days prior to election day, in Sweden or abroad, which shows the date, time and local polling place, always on a Sunday, normally in September each 4 years. Polling may also be done anywhere in the country at various early voting stations determined by the local Election Committee or at a Swedish Diplomatic mission, all to facilitate for the voters. To vote in person a recognized photo identity document is required, or a confirmation by someone with proper identification. The voting card letter is not compulsory to bring as it is possible to print a copy of it, but it reduces waiting time. For people with difficulties to move, like elderly, hospitalized or imprisoned, there are ambulant voting stations and the possibility to vote as an absentee through a proxy, that can be a family member, caretaker, prison guard or other person in a normal relationship with the voter. Those living on the country-side can vote with their postman and those staying abroad are allowed to vote through mail with the material provided by a diplomatic mission. Elections through Internet are not yet implemented, although most other registry related services are available, like leaving a tax return. The Local Election Committee, that manages the electoral roll and oversees safe vote counting and reporting, is appointed by each County Administrative Board and all work is transparent, as Swedish authorities by default must follow the principle of transparency, but the actual vote of each individual is kept secret. All absentee and early voting ballots are sent physically to the registered local polling station for counting and double checking the voter's identity with the electoral roll eliminating any risk of double voting.[citation needed]

Only Swedish citizens being 18 years old on the election day and living in Sweden may vote in all public elections. Registered residents may vote in local and regional elections. Swedish citizens that are resident abroad have the right to vote in Riksdag and EU elections only. To maintain a record in the electoral roll as an expatriate, one needs to refresh the registration within 10 years; a vote counts as a valid refresh. In the elections for political members of the Church Board (Parochial church council), similar elections are held, but only members of the Church of Sweden above 16 years of age have suffrage. Universal egalitarian voting rights are protected by the constitution; all voting is voluntary and free of charge, but often seen as a duty, with voter turnout between 80 and 90% in the last decades. It is possible to change an early vote, on the election day, thus scrapping a previously sent vote. By Swedish law, the elections are direct and proportional, which means that the actual votes are reflected in each party's share of the 349 of representatives in the Riksdag, but each individual enter according to amount of personal votes. Any mismatch between districts that could skew the proportion is managed through the Leveling seats, rendering no votes powerless if placed on a party that can enter the parliament. The eligibility to the governing bodies follow the same limitations as for the voting. Through the use of blank (1,09% in 2010 Parliament elections) and unlocked ballots to allow total democracy and voting for unregistered parties, people that were not even running for office have been elected to municipal boards when their name has been handwritten on ballots raising controversy, thus the rules are being changed to disqualify ballots for a person that does not approve or is disapproved by the party.[16]
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GypsySoul
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« Reply #918 on: October 25, 2020, 11:47:03 PM »

You (jarmo) probably forgot that you had to have registered to vote at some point in time because how else would they have your address to mail you the paperwork and voting location/instructions?

Because most people here are registered with a home address tied to your social security number.....

Every election they send out the envelopes to people's home addresses.

/jarmo

TBH, I'm really not sure if there's any one thing tied to your home address to vote. I think they put a blank voter registration form in with your driver license or car registration renewal but people who don't have either one of those obviously must have a way to change their address if they move. Moving on its own doesn't change your voter registration address. You have to submit the change on an official voter registration form.

But to answer your original question, voting in the USA is basically done the same as what you described for where you live. I think because of the way people submit their vote and how those votes are counted differing from state to state is what causes controversy. This year is an over-the-top exaggeration of that issue but it certainly isn't the first time there has been controversy of how different states tally their ballots.
 
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« Reply #919 on: October 26, 2020, 12:03:32 AM »

As for the Senate, we should go back to the way it was in the constitution. Where they were selected by state legislatures.

I don't know about that; people don't really pay much attention to state legislatures, which makes them easy for a dedicated minority interest group to capture outsized influence within. And in practice, that tends to be Christian conservatives. That's why so many state legislatures were swept by right wing candidates in the 2010s and Dems have been hemorrhaging lower ballot seats for decades. They're also cheaper/easier to buy off than Senate elections.

And so many state legislatures, governorships and supreme courts being republican held is why everyone should be very worried about Trump taking swing state elections to the courts. Out of the four likely swing states, only ONE (PA) has a Dem held court.

« Last Edit: October 26, 2020, 04:09:42 PM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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