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Author Topic: Angus Young "really grateful" for Axl, though he was never going to be permanent  (Read 1465 times)
rebelhipi
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« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2020, 07:31:09 AM »

Im a big fan of Chris Slades drumming on The Razors Edge era. But his drum sound on the Rock Or Bust tour was pretty bad honestly.
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« Reply #21 on: November 19, 2020, 10:24:30 AM »

I'm no expert, I do play and sing, and the way I see it, while challenging range-wise ( high pitch raspy vocals is something few people can do), the structure of the guitar and its composition is more circular, constant and clear, and has a steady rhythm that adheres to an all too criticized "formula" (for better or for worse)... So it is easier to keep up with the rhythm (you can even see Axl physically keeping the beat when singing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhN6v8fScBA) , a good example is thunderstruck,(also rock or bust) with a steady rhythm like that, with short sentences as well, it's also easier to breath, something that Axl's been having trouble with in GNR songs.

But guitar rhythms don't affect how your voice works. The vocal melodies have both drawn out and staccato parts in both bands. It's a fair point that AC/DC lyrics tend to be less wordy though. He certainly did himself no favors writing CD material like TWAT.
Rhythm is melody.  So I would argue it's got a direct link to how vocals work. Ive mostly always written folk or folky rock songs ( I like blind melon) and friends of mine that are more singers/interpreters than writers sometimes ask me to help them with their project (mostly vocal melodies and lyrics), which leads me to venture into different genres, like reggae, rap and hip hop, or ska. I can tell you those genres have very different rhythms, and Rap is an example of a whole different world rhythm-wise that you have to understand in order to get it right. Singing over a lone piano track was also a challenge at first. I would also argue that your physical condition hinders your singing. His vocals were 10/10 in 2006 when he was in pretty good shape compared to 2001.
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« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2020, 12:19:25 AM »

Im a big fan of Chris Slades drumming on The Razors Edge era. But his drum sound on the Rock Or Bust tour was pretty bad honestly.

Yeah, as much of a Phil Rudd loyalist that I am, I will credit Chris Slade for doing an admirably great job during the "Razor's Edge" tour.  But it did deteriorate and fall astray during the Axl/DC performances, making me long for Rudd's return, which we thankfully got.
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« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2020, 01:27:08 AM »

Im a big fan of Chris Slades drumming on The Razors Edge era. But his drum sound on the Rock Or Bust tour was pretty bad honestly.

Agreed. He didn't even sound like the same drummer anymore. Then again, neither does Phil. Hopefully since he's gotten clean that will change.

Rhythm is melody.  So I would argue it's got a direct link to how vocals work. Ive mostly always written folk or folky rock songs ( I like blind melon) and friends of mine that are more singers/interpreters than writers sometimes ask me to help them with their project (mostly vocal melodies and lyrics), which leads me to venture into different genres, like reggae, rap and hip hop, or ska. I can tell you those genres have very different rhythms, and Rap is an example of a whole different world rhythm-wise that you have to understand in order to get it right. Singing over a lone piano track was also a challenge at first. I would also argue that your physical condition hinders your singing. His vocals were 10/10 in 2006 when he was in pretty good shape compared to 2001.

"Rhythm is melody"? I'm honestly struggling not to say something insulting here... that statement is categorically false. Rhythm relates to percussion, whereas melody refers to the use of different tones in a sequence. Melody (most often) includes rhythm as part of it, but not the other way around. A rhythm cannot have melody.

With that said, the guitar rhythms do not dictate the vocal melody. You can have staccato riffs with a legato vocal. Or the other way around. Both bands use both types of articulation in their vocals.

We're not talking about Axl rapping (which he has done, anyway). We're talking about going from one classic rock band to another classic rock band.

Technically, his singing style was "healthier" in 2001 because he wasn't using rasp, which most vocal trainers will say is unhealthy, period.

Anyway, I guess we both dig Blind Melon, so there's that.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 01:29:19 AM by PermissionToLand » Logged
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« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2020, 01:36:43 PM »

Im a big fan of Chris Slades drumming on The Razors Edge era. But his drum sound on the Rock Or Bust tour was pretty bad honestly.

Agreed. He didn't even sound like the same drummer anymore. Then again, neither does Phil. Hopefully since he's gotten clean that will change.

Rhythm is melody.  So I would argue it's got a direct link to how vocals work. Ive mostly always written folk or folky rock songs ( I like blind melon) and friends of mine that are more singers/interpreters than writers sometimes ask me to help them with their project (mostly vocal melodies and lyrics), which leads me to venture into different genres, like reggae, rap and hip hop, or ska. I can tell you those genres have very different rhythms, and Rap is an example of a whole different world rhythm-wise that you have to understand in order to get it right. Singing over a lone piano track was also a challenge at first. I would also argue that your physical condition hinders your singing. His vocals were 10/10 in 2006 when he was in pretty good shape compared to 2001.

"Rhythm is melody"? I'm honestly struggling not to say something insulting here... that statement is categorically false. Rhythm relates to percussion, whereas melody refers to the use of different tones in a sequence. Melody (most often) includes rhythm as part of it, but not the other way around. A rhythm cannot have melody.

With that said, the guitar rhythms do not dictate the vocal melody. You can have staccato riffs with a legato vocal. Or the other way around. Both bands use both types of articulation in their vocals.

We're not talking about Axl rapping (which he has done, anyway). We're talking about going from one classic rock band to another classic rock band.

Technically, his singing style was "healthier" in 2001 because he wasn't using rasp, which most vocal trainers will say is unhealthy, period. hihi

Anyway, I guess we both dig Blind Melon, so there's that.

Ahh the internet, where people get angry over nothing. "whereas melody refers to the use of different tones in a sequence" Yes, and those tones in a sequence follow ....the beat, don't they ? The way I write vocal melodies is simple: I usually follow the beat, either by stomping my feet or when its something soft like a piano I make one of the fingers in my hand move to the beat, I focus on the physical manifestation of the beat and I start improvising (singing) and the melody creates itself. Give it a try, it's not hard to understand, even Nicki Minaj can do it, you can see it here ,  she teaches Stephen Colbert how to do it (minute 12:00) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8s9joL_AGfo
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« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2020, 06:19:32 PM »

Ahh the internet, where people get angry over nothing. "whereas melody refers to the use of different tones in a sequence" Yes, and those tones in a sequence follow ....the beat, don't they ?

No, not if they're legato.

No anger here. Tried to be as diplomatic as possible, if anything.

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The way I write vocal melodies is simple: I usually follow the beat, either by stomping my feet or when its something soft like a piano I make one of the fingers in my hand move to the beat, I focus on the physical manifestation of the beat and I start improvising (singing) and the melody creates itself.

Whether a melody is inspired by a rhythm or not is irrelevant because we're talking about the technical capacity to sing a given melody. There's not really a lot to it with singing; you have melody, rhythm and breath support. Unless you can provide an instance where GNR use a note outside the range of AC/DC vocals or some kind of jackhammer fast technical rhythmic technique that is not used in DC, or extremely powerful or soft exertion... it's a moot point.

AC/DC songs have soft sections and belting sections, they have high notes and low notes, they have legato notes and near-rap staccato like Back in Black... you haven't given any specific technique that makes a significant difference that could explain the marked difference in Axl's performance.
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« Reply #26 on: November 22, 2020, 10:55:39 AM »

Ahh the internet, where people get angry over nothing. "whereas melody refers to the use of different tones in a sequence" Yes, and those tones in a sequence follow ....the beat, don't they ?

No, not if they're legato.

No anger here. Tried to be as diplomatic as possible, if anything.

Quote
The way I write vocal melodies is simple: I usually follow the beat, either by stomping my feet or when its something soft like a piano I make one of the fingers in my hand move to the beat, I focus on the physical manifestation of the beat and I start improvising (singing) and the melody creates itself.

Whether a melody is inspired by a rhythm or not is irrelevant because we're talking about the technical capacity to sing a given melody. There's not really a lot to it with singing; you have melody, rhythm and breath support. Unless you can provide an instance where GNR use a note outside the range of AC/DC vocals or some kind of jackhammer fast technical rhythmic technique that is not used in DC, or extremely powerful or soft exertion... it's a moot point.

AC/DC songs have soft sections and belting sections, they have high notes and low notes, they have legato notes and near-rap staccato like Back in Black... you haven't given any specific technique that makes a significant difference that could explain the marked difference in Axl's performance.

You're focused on range alone which I am not disputing. See it like this: you try to run over a course of obstacles, through sand, rocks, water... you would run out of breath faster than when you just walk in a straight line over grass.  Music wise: That could ruin a performance. There's a reason a lot of people jog using jogging music. It helps them keep the beat and keeps them going.. It may seem as though rhythm "inspires" a melody, but it actually dictates it, which is easy to see, try singing, and then try to take out the rhythm. The result: the melody collapses, because you are removing its foundation. Had Nicky Minaj given Stephen Colbert a different rhythm the rap would've come out differently. He didn't think on how to rap those lyrics, he just started following the beat and he didn't just surprise Nicki he surprised himself too. Without the beat (prior to Nicki providing the rhythm, he just sounded like a donkey) hihi
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« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2020, 07:08:19 PM »

You're focused on range alone which I am not disputing. See it like this: you try to run over a course of obstacles, through sand, rocks, water... you would run out of breath faster than when you just walk in a straight line over grass.  Music wise: That could ruin a performance. There's a reason a lot of people jog using jogging music. It helps them keep the beat and keeps them going.. It may seem as though rhythm "inspires" a melody, but it actually dictates it, which is easy to see, try singing, and then try to take out the rhythm. The result: the melody collapses, because you are removing its foundation. Had Nicky Minaj given Stephen Colbert a different rhythm the rap would've come out differently. He didn't think on how to rap those lyrics, he just started following the beat and he didn't just surprise Nicki he surprised himself too. Without the beat (prior to Nicki providing the rhythm, he just sounded like a donkey) hihi

I no way am I talking about range alone. I'm honestly amazed how you could come away thinking that. Did you even read what I said?

I wasn't asking for a vague analogy, I was asking for tangible specifics.

Tell me, what GNR songs require intricate rhythms? Is Sweet Child using a 7/8 time signature?
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« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2020, 10:19:54 PM »

The problem is you want knowledge and I'm trying to give you understanding. Two different things.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree  Tongue
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« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2020, 05:17:43 PM »

The problem is you want knowledge and I'm trying to give you understanding. Two different things.

The problem is that you're saying nothing and trying to make it sound meaningful and poignant. And this is a perfect illustration of that. Sorry, I'm not fooled by rhetorical bluster and pageantry.
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