Hard Skool IS OUT!

[otgm]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m just surprised by the amount of time people spend talking about things they don’t like, instead of things that they do like. But yeah, spend your energy the way that seems constructive to you.

So you think that criticism towards anything is unnecessary or pointless? That doesn't sound very constructive either. If all of us here wouldn't love GNR we wouldn't bother with the criticism.

Anyway, like I said I like the song but I'd still like to hear something new that the boys have come up with together, as a band.

[dsaddler78]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I’m just surprised by the amount of time people spend talking about things they don’t like, instead of things that they do like. But yeah, spend your energy the way that seems constructive to you.

So you think that criticism towards anything is unnecessary or pointless? That doesn't sound very constructive either. If all of us here wouldn't love GNR we wouldn't bother with the criticism.

Anyway, like I said I like the song but I'd still like to hear something new that the boys have come up with together, as a band.

I agree for the most part and have said it on here multiple times. I love Hard Skool, but I want to hear some new original stuff from the New/old group (Axl/Slash/Duff/Fortus)

[PermissionToLand]

Announcement was 1 month before the release.

Also, define acknowledgement... Here's what you said yourself:

Slash said in January of 2020 that they were basically done with it and figuring out how to release it. Fernando said in some message board that it was targeted to release in March 2020 but then the pandemic hit.

Isn't that acknowledgement?

I said "official". CD was on Geffen's schedule as early as, what '99? Axl announced the title around that same time. We've seen nothing official about an album this time, just vague statements from band members.

Also, I think it's safe to say they learned some lessons from the complete lack of promotion for CD.

[PermissionToLand]

I can only speak for myself...

I'm not so much disappointed that they worked an old "vault" song, so much as....that's the best they can do?? I would hope for and want a new song (or album) of original material that has a spark of new inspiration, something that re-captures some of that old magic they used to have. And, frankly, "Hard Skool" is not that song. None of them as individuals have come close to recapturing the magic that they all had when they were Guns N' fuckin' Roses--not Axl and CD, not Slash and Snakepit or Velvet, same with Duff.  It sounds exactly like what it is...a cast of relic from an earlier era, something lazy that Duff could add 3 second bass intro to and Slash could noodle some in the middle. Axl didn't even deign to re-record his vocals. The mixing sucks, the recording sounds like shit...it still sounds like a demo. There's a reason why this song didn't make the cut for CD...it's not very good.

"Hard Skool" is nowhere near the same ballpark as Don't Cry or November Rain, so I dunno why you made that comparison other than yes, DC and NR were started during the Appetite sessions. 


I understanding working old vault songs is totally a normal thing for artists and musicians to do--it just bums me out that they don't/can't/won't seem to write new music together.

This isn't a good song ya'll...you've just been wandering thirsty in the desert for 15 years and think this piss is water. I know this isn't a popular opinion around here...I just had much higher hopes in 2016 whenever they got back together.

If you were expecting something as good as AFD or UYI, that's on you for having unreasonable expectations. No band on earth is making music as good as their prime when they're 30 years beyond it.

It's especially ridiculous if you think nothing any of them has put out since then measures up (which I think is ridiculous and disagree with completely; Snakepit, VR and CD all have top notch material).

And don't lie, if Axl did re-record his vocals, you'd be bitching about that, too.

Obviously this isn't on par with NR and DC, I'm just using the example of music that was floating around at bootleg record stores back in the day that was from or even before Appetite.

Ok, well it was a bad example because NR and DC were/are good songs. HS is not a good song. If HS sounded like DC or NR there wouldn't be an issue. It's not a revelation or anything that musicians work on/off music for years sometimes.

You're repeatedly missing their point. They never compared them in terms of quality. They compared them because they both fit the label of "recycled old songs" as that other person put it. The quality of those songs being high was actually the point, to disprove the suggestion that being old or recycled makes them bad.

[Thorned Rose]

New song is quite good, but I was sad to know it's a rehash. It's great t I get something new, but I was hoping for something totally original and not from 15 years ago or whatever

[ITARocker]

I dont see your point guys... You know how Axl works... And if we have 2 songs already we know we have to thank slash and duff who agree to rework the old material. Plus no one is pushing them cause the tour is a colossal business and albums don't sell anymore...It's the perfect time for axl to be lazy AF in that sense   ... I'd like to see him more in shape vocally than rushing a new album right now, even though i think we'll see new music here and there

[Sillything]

I love the song! I Like Absurd too! Now I want a remake of Oh My God, and Better with the Slash/Duff intro.
I love what they have done merch wise with Hard Skool, 7", cds, casette, t-shirt... Just like the old days with songs/ versions of songs from different albums on there.

I hope they still release physicall singles in the same way for Chinese Democracy, and re-release all their old singles.

[C0ma]

As far as writing new music together... I still don't discount that the beginnings of this song could be from the 1994-1996 time frame starting as "ideas" they had. I still find it way to coincidental that Duff was on Howard Stern in 1996 saying he was supposed to return to LA to record a song for a Jackie Chan movie, and then several years later a song previously known as Checkmate gets confirmed by Axl as having a 'working title' of Jackie Chan. They all worked on more than just Sympathy... There was time to get Slash to work with Paul, there was a Zach feeling out process...

Yeah, I've heard the same thing. That doesn't change anything really. I was hoping for the 3 of them to get together and write some new, awesome songs, hopefully re-capturing some of that feeling that exists only when the 3 of them make music. I don't think that has happened or will happen. I will happily be proven wrong if they release something awesome. I'll be first in line to buy.

But HS is just lazy...

As far as not making CD... there could be a variety of reasons why it didn't. One of them could be that it never got to where Axl thought it needed to be based on who worked on it in the 1999-2008 time frame. The lyrics seem to directly relate to trying to keep the old lineup together, so maybe the "cold" sound of the CD lineup couldn't get it to where Axl wanted. While I do agree that this thing isn't exactly a masterpiece, so you really think Scraped, Sorry, Shackler are world beaters??? There is plenty of crap on CD... there are some great songs, but the vast majority of it is bloated unfeeling garbage. Would this have been worse than half of that album, I don't believe so.

Again, I don't know what you think you are arguing. All you did was write a long paragraph about how HS isn't a very good song and wasn't good enough to be on CD (for whatever reason you speculated)...which was my point. So...thanks for agreeing with me??? I honestly don't know what point you were trying to make here.

I never said Scraped, Sorry, et/all were "world beaters" or anything close to that. You seem to be extrapolating and assuming a lot of information based on one sentence. BUT, I will say I would rather listen to any of those CD songs than HS. Even marginally better is better.

If Axl, Slash, and Duff wrote Hardskool (or some form of it) in 1996ish than it is their song, It doesn't matter what you heard from that locker. It is an Axl, Slash, Duff song that some other people re-recorded, and has since been officially released by the band that created it. This more so than Absurd is exactly what people are asking for... or are you just asking for better Axl, Slash, and Duff songs, because that is subjective.

As far as my point on the why it didn't make CD... I'm not saying it wasn't a "good enough song", I'm speculating that Axl couldn't get from it what he saw/heard in the early phases of the song with Slash and Duff. Tommy and Robin, (or Robin, Bucket, Paul, etc...) couldn't do to it what Axl heard from Slash and it's obvious from the lyrics that emotion towards Slash (and possibly Duff) played heavily into Axl's vision for that song. Maybe as pop punk as it is, this was a very important song emotionally for Axl, which is why it is also getting this push and treatment.

As far as my bringing up Scraped and Shacklers, I'm just saying that while Hard Skool isn't a masterpiece, neither are those songs. If this were in a state that Axl was happy with (for whatever reason) I could easily have seen this replace one of those (or even Riad). Let's be honest, none of them are jumping Missy Elliott for 8th best song ever in Rolling Stone (obviously kidding about that disaster of a list), but just I'm saying (IMO) there are songs on CD that were not better than this track.

[KillYourIdols]

If you were expecting something as good as AFD or UYI, that's on you for having unreasonable expectations. No band on earth is making music as good as their prime when they're 30 years beyond it.

It's especially ridiculous if you think nothing any of them has put out since then measures up (which I think is ridiculous and disagree with completely; Snakepit, VR and CD all have top notch material).

I never said that. Lol, you're attacking me for something I didn't say because you didn't understand what I wrote. I said "captures SOME of that old magic"

And yes, I think nothing any of them have done separately has been as good as Guns N' Roses 1986-1993. If you think they have....OK. I question your taste, but you do you.

And don't lie, if Axl did re-record his vocals, you'd be bitching about that, too.

Only if they sucked

You're repeatedly missing their point. They never compared them in terms of quality. They compared them because they both fit the label of "recycled old songs" as that other person put it. The quality of those songs being high was actually the point, to disprove the suggestion that being old or recycled makes them bad.

No, YOU are missing the point. You need reading lessons.

I never said HS was bad because it was pulled from the vault...it's bad/mediocre because it is not a very good song.

I said I would have preferred it if they wrote new material together to take advantage of new found inspiration and/or energy of being reunited. I was hoping that would spark something.

If Axl, Slash, and Duff wrote Hardskool (or some form of it) in 1996ish than it is their song, It doesn't matter what you heard from that locker. It is an Axl, Slash, Duff song that some other people re-recorded, and has since been officially released by the band that created it. This more so than Absurd is exactly what people are asking for... or are you just asking for better Axl, Slash, and Duff songs, because that is subjective.

Jesus fucking Christ. It's not a very good song. I don't have a problem with them using old stuff...if it's GOOD (like NR/DC). I think that pulling a cast off song from the 90's when the band was falling apart and slapping a bass intro and some noodling guitars is lazy and uninspired. Axl didn't re-record the vocals, so he either thinks he nailed it the first time (he didn't) or he can't sing anymore (he can't) and it's sad and scary.

I said all that above. What about this isn't clear to you? Why are you arguing points I didn't make? 

As far as my point on the why it didn't make CD... I'm not saying it wasn't a "good enough song", I'm speculating that Axl couldn't get from it what he saw/heard in the early phases of the song with Slash and Duff. Tommy and Robin, (or Robin, Bucket, Paul, etc...) couldn't do to it what Axl heard from Slash and it's obvious from the lyrics that emotion towards Slash (and possibly Duff) played heavily into Axl's vision for that song. Maybe as pop punk as it is, this was a very important song emotionally for Axl, which is why it is also getting this push and treatment.

It didn't make CD because it wasn't good enough to go on CD. All you wrote was speculation that Axl didn't think it was good/ready for the album. I agree with Axl...HS wasn't good enough for CD. It doesn't really matter "why," does it?

[Oliver]

I remember an interview with Axl from the early 2000's where he said they had enough material for at least two albums. They were planning to release another album not long after CD, and he said the second album wouldn't be CD's leftovers, they would choose the songs that fit best together for each album. So the fact that Hard Skool wasn't on CD doesn't mean it wasn't good enough for it.

[Ali]

If you were expecting something as good as AFD or UYI, that's on you for having unreasonable expectations. No band on earth is making music as good as their prime when they're 30 years beyond it.

It's especially ridiculous if you think nothing any of them has put out since then measures up (which I think is ridiculous and disagree with completely; Snakepit, VR and CD all have top notch material).

I never said that. Lol, you're attacking me for something I didn't say because you didn't understand what I wrote. I said "captures SOME of that old magic"

And yes, I think nothing any of them have done separately has been as good as Guns N' Roses 1986-1993. If you think they have....OK. I question your taste, but you do you.

And don't lie, if Axl did re-record his vocals, you'd be bitching about that, too.

Only if they sucked

You're repeatedly missing their point. They never compared them in terms of quality. They compared them because they both fit the label of "recycled old songs" as that other person put it. The quality of those songs being high was actually the point, to disprove the suggestion that being old or recycled makes them bad.

No, YOU are missing the point. You need reading lessons.

I never said HS was bad because it was pulled from the vault...it's bad/mediocre because it is not a very good song.

I said I would have preferred it if they wrote new material together to take advantage of new found inspiration and/or energy of being reunited. I was hoping that would spark something.

If Axl, Slash, and Duff wrote Hardskool (or some form of it) in 1996ish than it is their song, It doesn't matter what you heard from that locker. It is an Axl, Slash, Duff song that some other people re-recorded, and has since been officially released by the band that created it. This more so than Absurd is exactly what people are asking for... or are you just asking for better Axl, Slash, and Duff songs, because that is subjective.

Jesus fucking Christ. It's not a very good song. I don't have a problem with them using old stuff...if it's GOOD (like NR/DC). I think that pulling a cast off song from the 90's when the band was falling apart and slapping a bass intro and some noodling guitars is lazy and uninspired. Axl didn't re-record the vocals, so he either thinks he nailed it the first time (he didn't) or he can't sing anymore (he can't) and it's sad and scary.

I said all that above. What about this isn't clear to you? Why are you arguing points I didn't make? 

As far as my point on the why it didn't make CD... I'm not saying it wasn't a "good enough song", I'm speculating that Axl couldn't get from it what he saw/heard in the early phases of the song with Slash and Duff. Tommy and Robin, (or Robin, Bucket, Paul, etc...) couldn't do to it what Axl heard from Slash and it's obvious from the lyrics that emotion towards Slash (and possibly Duff) played heavily into Axl's vision for that song. Maybe as pop punk as it is, this was a very important song emotionally for Axl, which is why it is also getting this push and treatment.

It didn't make CD because it wasn't good enough to go on CD. All you wrote was speculation that Axl didn't think it was good/ready for the album. I agree with Axl...HS wasn't good enough for CD. It doesn't really matter "why," does it?

You don't like the new song, and you don't like the way Axl sings now. OK. That is clear. How many times do you need to state that view?

Ali

[D-GenerationX]

Why the fuck are you here then? Just to bitch and complain? Are you just blowing off steam and the band is your target?

This is totally bizarre mindset.  And only prevalent at this particular board.  

We are the top 1% of GNR fans.  We are obsessed, probably to an unhealthy degree.  Who is as obsessed with GNR other than other diehard of the diehard GNR fans?

But does that mean we just wave the pom-poms, 24/7/365?  Of course not.  Such people have zero credibility.  Sheer law of averages dictates some things don't land.  That's wrong to say?

You judge each thing on its own merits.  For instance :

- Was thrilled with the release of 'Absurd'.  It showed me they actually have been in a studio.  So on that level, I found it the most encouraging thing on the GNR front in forever.  But..end the day, the song kind of sucks.  Will never be in my heavy rotation

Both things can be true.

- Loved the 'Hard Skool' single.  Dug it since the leaks a few years back.  And I actually believe they have improved on that original demo.  Listen to the song heavily already.  But guess what?  The lone live performance of it we have sucks donkey dick.  Axl sounds horrendous on it.  He sounds 'There Was a Time' bad.  Just weak vocals, nothing behind them.

Both things can be true.

And, more to the point, who else am I (or any of us) supposed to discuss deep in the weeds minutiae then with other hardcore fans of the same subject??

[kyrie]

Zero surprise that the usual suspects found something to bitch amd moan about within days of new music being released (to solid reviews from Rolling Stone and many other outlets no less). Just zero surprise. Or less than zero.

- the art is ugly
- he can't sing it live the whole one time he tried it
- the wrong people wrote it, maybe
- it's not as good as the demo I wore my earbuds out to, because reasons
- I didn't get a complimentary blowjob when I ordered the vinyl

Go yell at some fucking clouds, ffs.

[D-GenerationX]

- the art is ugly
- he can't sing it live the whole one time he tried it
- the wrong people wrote it, maybe
- it's not as good as the demo I wore my earbuds out to, because reasons
- I didn't get a complimentary blowjob when I ordered the vinyl

I see one legit point here.  And there will be plenty of chances for him to improve on it.

Now, me?  Personally?  I am flogging the shit out of 'Hard Skool'.  Posted it on FB right away.  Sent link to other friends.  Told people in person to go check it out.

Everybody digs it too.  Which is awesome.

[PermissionToLand]

I love the song! I Like Absurd too! Now I want a remake of Oh My God, and Better with the Slash/Duff intro.
I love what they have done merch wise with Hard Skool, 7", cds, casette, t-shirt... Just like the old days with songs/ versions of songs from different albums on there.

I hope they still release physicall singles in the same way for Chinese Democracy, and re-release all their old singles.

Funny, I recently revisited Oh My God and it's a cooler track than I remembered. But I don't think Slash and Duff would improve it. That song just feels like it's how it was meant to be.

[PermissionToLand]

If you were expecting something as good as AFD or UYI, that's on you for having unreasonable expectations. No band on earth is making music as good as their prime when they're 30 years beyond it.

It's especially ridiculous if you think nothing any of them has put out since then measures up (which I think is ridiculous and disagree with completely; Snakepit, VR and CD all have top notch material).

I never said that. Lol, you're attacking me for something I didn't say because you didn't understand what I wrote. I said "captures SOME of that old magic"

And yes, I think nothing any of them have done separately has been as good as Guns N' Roses 1986-1993. If you think they have....OK. I question your taste, but you do you.

What a weasel move, coming up with retroactive continuity once called out. "Magic" is as vague, subjective and undefinable a term as it gets. Hardschool has almost everything a classic GNR track should. To act like it has none of what made classic Guns good is ridiculous and I would love to see you try to substantiate that claim. And don't try to weasel out of that one by saying "anyone who tries to hold my feet to the fire just isn't reading into my retconned excuses well enough". By saying it does not even have "some", you are saying it has NONE.

Nobody's taste is in question here except yours, bud.  

You're repeatedly missing their point. They never compared them in terms of quality. They compared them because they both fit the label of "recycled old songs" as that other person put it. The quality of those songs being high was actually the point, to disprove the suggestion that being old or recycled makes them bad.

No, YOU are missing the point. You need reading lessons.

I never said HS was bad because it was pulled from the vault...it's bad/mediocre because it is not a very good song.

Holy shit, you sure do project your own failings onto others HARD, huh?

I guess I have to run it back and walk you through like a child because you have ZERO reading comprehension skills...

Coma responded to this comment from D: "WTF does it even mean to recycle an old song? If the song hasn't been finished and released it isn't old....
if people spoiled it cause you listened to some parasitic jackass leaking it, that's not Axl's fault."

Notice they said nothing about quality. Read it as many times as you need to, kiddo.  

Then, you came in acting like Coma was comparing those songs in terms of quality when nobody was talking about that. YOU were the one who was a failure at reading comprehension from day one. Sit the F down.

[PermissionToLand]

As far as my bringing up Scraped and Shacklers, I'm just saying that while Hard Skool isn't a masterpiece, neither are those songs. If this were in a state that Axl was happy with (for whatever reason) I could easily have seen this replace one of those (or even Riad). Let's be honest, none of them are jumping Missy Elliott for 8th best song ever in Rolling Stone (obviously kidding about that disaster of a list), but just I'm saying (IMO) there are songs on CD that were not better than this track.

That dude's inability to read is amazing, isn't it? He says "There's a reason why this song didn't make the cut for CD...it's not very good." and when you point out the songs that DID make the cut and were not very good, he doesn't grasp what you said and pretends like his argument wasn't built around the bar for making the album being a standard of quality. And then has the gall to accuse you of lacking reading comprehension because he's insecure about his own.

You made your point clear enough for a grade schooler to grasp when you said "Would this have been worse than half of that album, I don't believe so."

Instead he chooses to pretend like he didn't just argue that making the album is a sign of quality. So dishonest and weaselly.

Anyone with an ounce of sense could tell that HS with Slash's improvements is a better song than Shackler or Riad. Hell, it could surpass the bar for entry of ANY Guns album. It's better than My World and 14 Years, and it's better than Anything Goes and Think About You.

[D-GenerationX]

Funny, I recently revisited Oh My God and it's a cooler track than I remembered. But I don't think Slash and Duff would improve it. That song just feels like it's how it was meant to be.

I have always dug that tune.  Doesn't really sound like GNR at all, but I like it's overall vibe.

I also love that RIR III version.  Axl obviously mistimes the outro, but I think it turned out to be a happy accident.  With him one beat behind the band, he delivers that line basically a capella and I think it sounds great that way.

[Spirit]

Announcement was 1 month before the release.

Also, define acknowledgement... Here's what you said yourself:

Slash said in January of 2020 that they were basically done with it and figuring out how to release it. Fernando said in some message board that it was targeted to release in March 2020 but then the pandemic hit.

Isn't that acknowledgement?

I said "official". CD was on Geffen's schedule as early as, what '99? Axl announced the title around that same time. We've seen nothing official about an album this time, just vague statements from band members.

Also, I think it's safe to say they learned some lessons from the complete lack of promotion for CD.

I still don't think it's far out to announce an album one month in advance. Especially in the times we're living now. Lots of artists have done this. Hell, Eminem announced an album on the same day he released it.

[AdZ]

Zero surprise that the usual suspects found something to bitch amd moan about within days of new music being released (to solid reviews from Rolling Stone and many other outlets no less). Just zero surprise. Or less than zero.

lol. absolutely this. no surprises at all. people love being miserable.