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Author Topic: Hard Skool IS OUT!  (Read 32478 times)
Ali
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« Reply #180 on: September 28, 2021, 08:47:30 PM »


Why the fuck are you here then? Just to bitch and complain? Are you just blowing off steam and the band is your target?


This is totally bizarre mindset.  And only prevalent at this particular board.  

We are the top 1% of GNR fans.  We are obsessed, probably to an unhealthy degree.  Who is as obsessed with GNR other than other diehard of the diehard GNR fans?

But does that mean we just wave the pom-poms, 24/7/365?  Of course not.  Such people have zero credibility.  Sheer law of averages dictates some things don't land.  That's wrong to say?

You judge each thing on its own merits.  For instance :

- Was thrilled with the release of 'Absurd'.  It showed me they actually have been in a studio.  So on that level, I found it the most encouraging thing on the GNR front in forever.  But..end the day, the song kind of sucks.  Will never be in my heavy rotation

Both things can be true.

- Loved the 'Hard Skool' single.  Dug it since the leaks a few years back.  And I actually believe they have improved on that original demo.  Listen to the song heavily already.  But guess what?  The lone live performance of it we have sucks donkey dick.  Axl sounds horrendous on it.  He sounds 'There Was a Time' bad.  Just weak vocals, nothing behind them.

Both things can be true.

And, more to the point, who else am I (or any of us) supposed to discuss deep in the weeds minutiae then with other hardcore fans of the same subject??
There's a distinct difference between saying, "Axl sounds like shit", "He sucks", "Hard Skool sucks", and saying, "Axl could use more breath support, and he should adjust the phrasing in the chorus for that."

Furthermore, if you voice your displeasure with something once, that is one thing. But, when you repeat it multiple times, that is another. You have already vented and are now trolling.

Trolling doesn't facilitate good, productive discussions on a discussion board, IMHO.

Ali
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KillYourIdols
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« Reply #181 on: September 28, 2021, 11:47:17 PM »

Quote
What a weasel move, coming up with retroactive continuity once called out. "Magic" is as vague, subjective and undefinable a term as it gets. Hardschool has almost everything a classic GNR track should. To act like it has none of what made classic Guns good is ridiculous and I would love to see you try to substantiate that claim. And don't try to weasel out of that one by saying "anyone who tries to hold my feet to the fire just isn't reading into my retconned excuses well enough". By saying it does not even have "some", you are saying it has NONE.

Nobody's taste is in question here except yours, bud.  rofl

Lol what?? What "retroactive continuity?" My shit is all posted on there for anyone to read. I didn't go back and edit or change anything. It's all there.

You took me saying "recapture some of that old magic" and made that into me expecting a new Appetite or UYI. Which is an absurd extrapolation from that sentence. You were corrected in your stupidity. Nobody is trying to "weasel" out of anything. It's quite clear what I meant from the get--again, you seem to be the one who doesn't grasp what I wrote. If you need more help PM me.

Quote
Holy shit, you sure do project your own failings onto others HARD, huh?

I guess I have to run it back and walk you through like a child because you have ZERO reading comprehension skills...

Coma responded to this comment from D: "WTF does it even mean to recycle an old song? If the song hasn't been finished and released it isn't old....
if people spoiled it cause you listened to some parasitic jackass leaking it, that's not Axl's fault."

Notice they said nothing about quality. Read it as many times as you need to, kiddo.  Roll Eyes

Then, you came in acting like Coma was comparing those songs in terms of quality when nobody was talking about that. YOU were the one who was a failure at reading comprehension from day one. Sit the F down.

Yeah, I'm the one who brought up quality. What's your point? I said that HS was nowhere near as good as NR or DC, and told COma that it was a bad comparison because they were of such differing quality. Pulling a song out of the vault is a normal thing for a band to do (I said that before too...did you read it?)...I just would expect something better? Again, what is unclear about this? If you read the thread it's all laid out right there.

The very fact that COma brought up HS with NR and DC invites comparison, yes??

I'd rather them write something new instead of re-hashing something old, uninspired and clearly average at best. I've been crystal clear from the start. What don't you understand? Seriously, how did you not get that?

Like, "HS is a bad song and lazy, I wish they had written something new instead of pulling this from the vault"

then "NR and DC were both from the vault," like that somehow matters in any context of our discussion? Who fucking cares? That's neither a defense of HS nor a revelation. The issue isn't that they pulled a song from the vault, the issue is the song isn't very good. Comprende? I understand totally what they are saying...it's just a dumb point IMO.

I can't believe you think you are the smart one here.

Quote
That dude's inability to read is amazing, isn't it? He says "There's a reason why this song didn't make the cut for CD...it's not very good." and when you point out the songs that DID make the cut and were not very good, he doesn't grasp what you said and pretends like his argument wasn't built around the bar for making the album being a standard of quality. And then has the gall to accuse you of lacking reading comprehension because he's insecure about his own

You're spare parts bud. Hot damn.

Why wasn't HS on CD then?

Axl chose the songs to release for CD, and HS didn't make the cut. Now, music is subjective and if you like HS better than, say, Shackler's then good for you. I'm not of the opinion that CD is a masterpiece or, honestly, even a great album. I'm not even going to suggest to you that Rhiad, Shackler's, etc/all are good songs. They aren't. IMO they are marginally better than HS. Not by much. If I had to pick between those or HS I would pick CD. HS is not even the best of the demos.

Go find where I said Shackler's or Sorry, etc were good songs...they aren't good songs. I just think they are marginally better than HS. Not a high bar IMO.

But there is a reason why Axl chose not to put HS on CD...and chose the other songs. So, I agree with Axl and I'm OK with that on this issue. YMMV

Don't bother responding, I don't care what you have to say. I won't bother replying to you.

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KillYourIdols
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« Reply #182 on: September 28, 2021, 11:50:38 PM »


Why the fuck are you here then? Just to bitch and complain? Are you just blowing off steam and the band is your target?


This is totally bizarre mindset.  And only prevalent at this particular board.  

We are the top 1% of GNR fans.  We are obsessed, probably to an unhealthy degree.  Who is as obsessed with GNR other than other diehard of the diehard GNR fans?

But does that mean we just wave the pom-poms, 24/7/365?  Of course not.  Such people have zero credibility.  Sheer law of averages dictates some things don't land.  That's wrong to say?

You judge each thing on its own merits.  For instance :

- Was thrilled with the release of 'Absurd'.  It showed me they actually have been in a studio.  So on that level, I found it the most encouraging thing on the GNR front in forever.  But..end the day, the song kind of sucks.  Will never be in my heavy rotation

Both things can be true.

- Loved the 'Hard Skool' single.  Dug it since the leaks a few years back.  And I actually believe they have improved on that original demo.  Listen to the song heavily already.  But guess what?  The lone live performance of it we have sucks donkey dick.  Axl sounds horrendous on it.  He sounds 'There Was a Time' bad.  Just weak vocals, nothing behind them.

Both things can be true.

And, more to the point, who else am I (or any of us) supposed to discuss deep in the weeds minutiae then with other hardcore fans of the same subject??

Finally, a voice of reason.
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axlroses
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« Reply #183 on: September 29, 2021, 01:24:58 AM »

To all of these people that are constantly complaining…in the words of Axl…nobody owes you..not one god damn thing..you know where to put your just shut up and sing…new music..successful touring…just shut up.
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Ignatius
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« Reply #184 on: September 29, 2021, 08:49:41 AM »


I love Hard Skool, just like I loved Oh My God when I first heard it.

And I also think this board should be the place to have open discussions about whether we like Hard Skool or not.

Personally, I enjoy reading ALL people's impressions on the song, specially since they come from hard core fans like us. We all love the band (and care about them), so if someone posts something negative about HS or Absurd, why is that trolling?

I get it, sometimes people come here and talk shit, but why can't we all agree to disagree?

I think Kill Your Idols expressed some valid points, I disagree with most of the things he said about Hard Skool and about the reason why it wasn't included on CD (I believe HS is way better than half the songs in CD), but all and all, I didn't view his posts as trolling or whatever.

But some of you do not take criticism well.

Having different views on GNR related things is what makes this board exciting. The variety of thoughts and opinions. If we all thought HS and Absurd were great songs, why even bother having a topic about them?

Also, we know Axl doesn't sound GREAT in every single performance these days, so why not say it? Where's the harm? Sometimes, it seems like people get offended if some poster says "Axl sucked last night". Well, who cares? I don't. Truth to be told, sometimes he's does miss a few notes here and there, just like everyone else. We all know his voice doesn't sound like 2016...

I mean, do we really need to use euphemisms like "he should adjust the phrasing in the chorus for that" so some of you don't get offended? Can we not say "Axl had a rough night"?

Anyway,  just my two cents.

Gonna play Hard Skool now for the millionth time haha.
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« Reply #185 on: September 29, 2021, 02:18:39 PM »


Why the fuck are you here then? Just to bitch and complain? Are you just blowing off steam and the band is your target?


This is totally bizarre mindset.  And only prevalent at this particular board.  

We are the top 1% of GNR fans.  We are obsessed, probably to an unhealthy degree.  Who is as obsessed with GNR other than other diehard of the diehard GNR fans?

But does that mean we just wave the pom-poms, 24/7/365?  Of course not.  Such people have zero credibility.  Sheer law of averages dictates some things don't land.  That's wrong to say?

You judge each thing on its own merits.  For instance :

- Was thrilled with the release of 'Absurd'.  It showed me they actually have been in a studio.  So on that level, I found it the most encouraging thing on the GNR front in forever.  But..end the day, the song kind of sucks.  Will never be in my heavy rotation

Both things can be true.

- Loved the 'Hard Skool' single.  Dug it since the leaks a few years back.  And I actually believe they have improved on that original demo.  Listen to the song heavily already.  But guess what?  The lone live performance of it we have sucks donkey dick.  Axl sounds horrendous on it.  He sounds 'There Was a Time' bad.  Just weak vocals, nothing behind them.

Both things can be true.

And, more to the point, who else am I (or any of us) supposed to discuss deep in the weeds minutiae then with other hardcore fans of the same subject??

Finally, a voice of reason.

Hard Skool is basically Think About You level of quality or lower. It's great the band put it out; sad that it can't be performed anywhere close to the recording quality (at least vocal performance-wise); and slightly depressing it's a rehashed CD leftover. For me, the thing that really rings hollow, is that while Axl wails on the chorus, it is not something he can do in reality, and that lends an empty feeling to the whole enterprise. It just seems a bit fake. Studio-trickery. Glad people like it and I get why people do like it. But for me it's all just a bit depressing. 
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PermissionToLand
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« Reply #186 on: September 29, 2021, 03:53:50 PM »

I still don't think it's far out to announce an album one month in advance. Especially in the times we're living now. Lots of artists have done this. Hell, Eminem announced an album on the same day he released it.

Eminem likes to drop surprise releases, and I think he can get away with it because he's still more relevant in the mainstream than Guns (even though IMO he stopped making good music after Relapse).

Incidentally, I've always thought Axl and Slim Shady had similarities and wondered what a collab would look like.
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Ali
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« Reply #187 on: September 29, 2021, 04:05:30 PM »


Why the fuck are you here then? Just to bitch and complain? Are you just blowing off steam and the band is your target?


This is totally bizarre mindset.  And only prevalent at this particular board.  

We are the top 1% of GNR fans.  We are obsessed, probably to an unhealthy degree.  Who is as obsessed with GNR other than other diehard of the diehard GNR fans?

But does that mean we just wave the pom-poms, 24/7/365?  Of course not.  Such people have zero credibility.  Sheer law of averages dictates some things don't land.  That's wrong to say?

You judge each thing on its own merits.  For instance :

- Was thrilled with the release of 'Absurd'.  It showed me they actually have been in a studio.  So on that level, I found it the most encouraging thing on the GNR front in forever.  But..end the day, the song kind of sucks.  Will never be in my heavy rotation

Both things can be true.

- Loved the 'Hard Skool' single.  Dug it since the leaks a few years back.  And I actually believe they have improved on that original demo.  Listen to the song heavily already.  But guess what?  The lone live performance of it we have sucks donkey dick.  Axl sounds horrendous on it.  He sounds 'There Was a Time' bad.  Just weak vocals, nothing behind them.

Both things can be true.

And, more to the point, who else am I (or any of us) supposed to discuss deep in the weeds minutiae then with other hardcore fans of the same subject??

Finally, a voice of reason.
A voice of reason, or just someone who shares your point of view?

This complaining about what is or isn't to your liking is akin to people who bitch about their sports teams on social media or on sports talk radio. OK, great. You vented and made your perspective known. Reiterating your point time and again will not move things in the direction you prefer. So, at that point, it is just performative.

Ali
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« Reply #188 on: September 29, 2021, 04:14:14 PM »

People arguing about personal taste.... If you don't like the song. Fine.

But whining about how you want new music only to whine about not liking it the next minute seems kinda ironic.


The notion that if a song was written during a period and wasn't on the next album somehow makes it a throw away is also misleading. November Rain was left off Appetite, as was Don't Cry.... No one would make the claims that those songs are not good enough to be on Appetite. They just didn't fit.




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PermissionToLand
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« Reply #189 on: September 29, 2021, 04:14:53 PM »

Don't bother responding, I don't care what you have to say. I won't bother replying to you.

AKA "I'm trying to steal the last word and running away because I'm a sore loser".

Quote
Lol what?? What "retroactive continuity?" My shit is all posted on there for anyone to read. I didn't go back and edit or change anything. It's all there.

You took me saying "recapture some of that old magic" and made that into me expecting a new Appetite or UYI. Which is an absurd extrapolation from that sentence. You were corrected in your stupidity. Nobody is trying to "weasel" out of anything. It's quite clear what I meant from the get--again, you seem to be the one who doesn't grasp what I wrote. If you need more help PM me.

That's not what ret-conning is. It's when you abuse any ambiguity in past statements to retroactively load in implications and nuances that weren't there to make it all consistent from the back end.

And again, you've failed to explain what you meant by the deliberately vague term "magic" because you never actually had any solid foundation for your argument.

Quote
Yeah, I'm the one who brought up quality. What's your point? I said that HS was nowhere near as good as NR or DC, and told COma that it was a bad comparison because they were of such differing quality. Pulling a song out of the vault is a normal thing for a band to do (I said that before too...did you read it?)...I just would expect something better? Again, what is unclear about this? If you read the thread it's all laid out right there.

The very fact that COma brought up HS with NR and DC invites comparison, yes??

I'd rather them write something new instead of re-hashing something old, uninspired and clearly average at best. I've been crystal clear from the start. What don't you understand? Seriously, how did you not get that?

So you're admitting you don't know the difference between an analogy and an equivalence. They were comparing a specific aspect of the songs to each other, not the entirety of them. They were talking about the age of the songs and you failed to comprehend that the comparison was not an equivalence but a limited scope comparison - aka an analogy. You were the one from day one who failed to comprehend what you were reading and introduced a strawman fallacy. Then you got belligerent with Coma over your own failure in comprehension. Which is why I stepped in.

Quote
Like, "HS is a bad song and lazy, I wish they had written something new instead of pulling this from the vault"

then "NR and DC were both from the vault," like that somehow matters in any context of our discussion? Who fucking cares? That's neither a defense of HS nor a revelation. The issue isn't that they pulled a song from the vault, the issue is the song isn't very good. Comprende? I understand totally what they are saying...it's just a dumb point IMO.

You're reversing the order of events. Do you really think that's fooling anyone when the record is there for all to see? Try:

Coma: "NR and DC were both from the vault, so why don't you have a problem with them being old, D?"

Uninvolved guy butting in: "NR and DC are better quality"

Cool non sequitur. Try reading better next time.

Quote
Why wasn't HS on CD then?

Imagine this: I'm not so arrogant as to assume I know. There are any number of reasons Axl chose not to put it on the album. Somebody else already offered a great explanation with evidence from the man himself:

I remember an interview with Axl from the early 2000's where he said they had enough material for at least two albums. They were planning to release another album not long after CD, and he said the second album wouldn't be CD's leftovers, they would choose the songs that fit best together for each album. So the fact that Hard Skool wasn't on CD doesn't mean it wasn't good enough for it.

Maybe you should start reading what other people say instead of nothing but your own comments.
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Ali
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« Reply #190 on: September 29, 2021, 05:32:38 PM »

People arguing about personal taste.... If you don't like the song. Fine.

But whining about how you want new music only to whine about not liking it the next minute seems kinda ironic.


The notion that if a song was written during a period and wasn't on the next album somehow makes it a throw away is also misleading. November Rain was left off Appetite, as was Don't Cry.... No one would make the claims that those songs are not good enough to be on Appetite. They just didn't fit.




/jarmo

This is an excellent point. By KYI's logic, Don't Cry wasn't "good enough" for AFD.

Ali
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« Reply #191 on: September 29, 2021, 07:07:39 PM »

The fact is they are outtakes but you are right that a song is a song you either don’t care for or you do. There may be someone out there who thinks Don’t Cry is better than Sweet Child. There may be someone out there who thinks Hard Skool is better than IRS.
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« Reply #192 on: September 29, 2021, 07:22:13 PM »

The fact is they are outtakes but you are right that a song is a song you either don’t care for or you do. There may be someone out there who thinks Don’t Cry is better than Sweet Child. There may be someone out there who thinks Hard Skool is better than IRS.
I do not agree that they were outtakes. Per Tommy Stinson: "Tommy Stinson, who says he hasn't listened to Chinese Democracy since he helped record it, provides his take on Axl's unfinished masterpiece: "All I can is…that record was not meant to be one disc."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/rock/8490842/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-album-legacy

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« Reply #193 on: September 29, 2021, 09:59:04 PM »

I do not agree that they were outtakes. Per Tommy Stinson: "Tommy Stinson, who says he hasn't listened to Chinese Democracy since he helped record it, provides his take on Axl's unfinished masterpiece: "All I can is…that record was not meant to be one disc."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.billboard.com/amp/articles/columns/rock/8490842/guns-n-roses-chinese-democracy-album-legacy

Ali

"and the unheard "Atlas Shrugged" ("a song influenced by Axl's fascination with Ayn Rand," confirms Zutaut)"

LOL
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« Reply #194 on: September 29, 2021, 11:04:18 PM »

I've seldom met a whole group of people committed to misunderstanding like most of you all here. It must be difficult to live in such a bubble where any sort of criticism of Axl or GNR shatters the denial you all have that they are making good new music or performing at a high level.

I mean, if this
Quote
"Axl could use more breath support, and he should adjust the phrasing in the chorus for that."
is what you need to hear in order to keep you worldview from falling apart in front of your eyes I feel bad for you. If you identify so completely with someone that you somehow feel personally attacked when somebody is moderately critical to something GNR/Axl does, I suggest you take a hard look at yourself and do some self reflection. If it were a member of my family I would be concerned.

Jesus christ, there was a time in this forum that you couldn't even mention Slash without being banned, lol.

I was really hoping for something better from them...I was so excited when they got back together (I used to NEVER think it would happen) and all they've done is tour (OK, cool) and release 2 mediocre songs years later.

I kind of think if Axl farted into a microphone you guys would try and tell me how great it was. "Axl didn't eat enough beans last night, he should adjust his intake for the next show"

Anyways, you can all have your wish, I'm done. See you if they ever release anything good so I can join the effusive cheerleading and fit in better.

I'm starting to get a weird feeling like I stumbled into a Scientologist meeting or something so I'm going to take my thetons and slowly back away. You can keep my 10 dollars
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Ali
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« Reply #195 on: September 30, 2021, 12:17:43 AM »

I've seldom met a whole group of people committed to misunderstanding like most of you all here. It must be difficult to live in such a bubble where any sort of criticism of Axl or GNR shatters the denial you all have that they are making good new music or performing at a high level.

I mean, if this
Quote
"Axl could use more breath support, and he should adjust the phrasing in the chorus for that."
is what you need to hear in order to keep you worldview from falling apart in front of your eyes I feel bad for you. If you identify so completely with someone that you somehow feel personally attacked when somebody is moderately critical to something GNR/Axl does, I suggest you take a hard look at yourself and do some self reflection. If it were a member of my family I would be concerned.

Jesus christ, there was a time in this forum that you couldn't even mention Slash without being banned, lol.

I was really hoping for something better from them...I was so excited when they got back together (I used to NEVER think it would happen) and all they've done is tour (OK, cool) and release 2 mediocre songs years later.

I kind of think if Axl farted into a microphone you guys would try and tell me how great it was. "Axl didn't eat enough beans last night, he should adjust his intake for the next show"

Anyways, you can all have your wish, I'm done. See you if they ever release anything good so I can join the effusive cheerleading and fit in better.

I'm starting to get a weird feeling like I stumbled into a Scientologist meeting or something so I'm going to take my thetons and slowly back away. You can keep my 10 dollars
What an asinine remark, and completely missing the point, as usual.

That statement was exaggerated to make the point that it isn't about whether or not you criticize, but how you do it. There's no having a discussion with someone like you who makes blanket statements and just bitches and moans because GN'R didn't do what you thought they should.

That is a childish worldview. If you were in my family, that and your lack of reading comprehension, would have me concerned.

Instead of bitching and moaning about what you didn't get, try spending time discussing something you actually enjoy.

Ali
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jarmo
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« Reply #196 on: September 30, 2021, 12:31:58 AM »

I'm starting to get a weird feeling like I stumbled into a Scientologist meeting or something so I'm going to take my thetons and slowly back away. You can keep my 10 dollars

It's a fan forum on a fan site. What the fuck did you expect? That everyone here is as obsessed as you about whining full time?

What a miserable existence.


If you didn't like the song, find something you enjoy. Who knows, maybe it'll give you some kind of other pleasure than what whining about GN'R does. Unless that's the only true pleasure you have in your life..... Cheesy


GN'R just finished a 3.5 hour show. Didn't hear or see a lot of whining going on in the audience. Imagine that.





/jarmo



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« Reply #197 on: September 30, 2021, 03:07:34 PM »

I'm starting to get a weird feeling like I stumbled into a Scientologist meeting or something so I'm going to take my thetons and slowly back away. You can keep my 10 dollars

It's a fan forum on a fan site. What the fuck did you expect? That everyone here is as obsessed as you about whining full time?

What a miserable existence.


If you didn't like the song, find something you enjoy. Who knows, maybe it'll give you some kind of other pleasure than what whining about GN'R does. Unless that's the only true pleasure you have in your life..... Cheesy


GN'R just finished a 3.5 hour show. Didn't hear or see a lot of whining going on in the audience. Imagine that.





/jarmo





GNFNR FN Rules! Booth new songs kicks ass! Hare Skool is the better one of them. Just great to rock out! Blast them in the car full volume!
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Stockholm 1991, 1993, 1995 (Slash), 2006,2015 (Slash), 2017
Roskilde: 2006
Helsinki 2010
Prague: 2010, 2017,2022
Milano: 2012
Aarhus: 2016 (Ac/Dc),
Berlin: 2018
Tallin: 2018
Gothenburg 2018
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« Reply #198 on: September 30, 2021, 03:11:17 PM »

I love the song! I Like Absurd too! Now I want a remake of Oh My God, and Better with the Slash/Duff intro.
I love what they have done merch wise with Hard Skool, 7", cds, casette, t-shirt... Just like the old days with songs/ versions of songs from different albums on there.

I hope they still release physicall singles in the same way for Chinese Democracy, and re-release all their old singles.

Funny, I recently revisited Oh My God and it's a cooler track than I remembered. But I don't think Slash and Duff would improve it. That song just feels like it's how it was meant to be.

I need Oh My God on Spotify! Real bad! Why can't I have it?
Slash/Duff doing it would be a bonus. FN rocks as it is!
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Stockholm 1991, 1993, 1995 (Slash), 2006,2015 (Slash), 2017
Roskilde: 2006
Helsinki 2010
Prague: 2010, 2017,2022
Milano: 2012
Aarhus: 2016 (Ac/Dc),
Berlin: 2018
Tallin: 2018
Gothenburg 2018
PermissionToLand
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« Reply #199 on: September 30, 2021, 10:34:09 PM »

I've seldom met a whole group of people committed to misunderstanding like most of you all here. It must be difficult to live in such a bubble where any sort of criticism of Axl or GNR shatters the denial you all have that they are making good new music or performing at a high level.

Wahh wahh wahh. I've literally been critical with every comment I've made in this thread before stopping to straighten you out. Get a freaking grip. No wonder you took that name, you're playing the martyr with the crown of thorns.
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I think you know where that comes from, guitarcomeon" - Stuff McKracken
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