new material update...or lack there of

[D-GenerationX]

The reality is that you're never wrong.... In your own opinion.

Let me just give you an example:

"They'll never release new music, they just wanna tour!"

Band releases two singles

"But those songs are old! They don't wanna write new material!"

ERRONEOUS!

I'm extremely disappointed in this bad take, soldier.  

There are SEVERAL posts from me on that topic.  Stating that is doesn't matter when something was written (or recorded for that matter) to make it "new"

My god, dude.  Some of those posts are CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU FOR FUCK'S SAKE, where I am agreeing with you!  As well as chastising others for having the contrasting opinion.

Be better.

[D-GenerationX]

We're all disappointed we haven't gotten more music out of GNR.  But we get talking about why, making assumptions, trying to understand and we basically go up our own assholes when we think we know the reason why.  Ask yourself what you really know and what is just opinion from what you've read on GNR boards.

I blame GNR for not letting us know what's going on but then again it's also a business and I totally get that the fans are outsiders and there's only so much information they are entitled to.  We're just the fans.

I agree with that.

Here is where some people lose me.  I take nothing but grief from some for these supposed blasphemous opinions on lack of new material and reason for such.

Then something like Slash's comment come out where he says they haven't really been in the studio proper or done anything yet.

How am I, and othesr like me, somehow STILL taking the loss on this debate?  That's the kind of thing I find to be the ultimate weak sauce.  I have the opinions I have based on all available evidence.  Then, even though one of the principal players in all this confirms that very thing...not only am I still "wrong" (somehow).....but the people telling me I am "wrong" never have to issue even a half hearted admission that what Slash said was discouraging.

[jarmo]

The reality is that you're never wrong.... In your own opinion.

Let me just give you an example:

"They'll never release new music, they just wanna tour!"

Band releases two singles

"But those songs are old! They don't wanna write new material!"

ERRONEOUS!

I'm extremely disappointed in this bad take, soldier.  

There are SEVERAL posts from me on that topic.  Stating that is doesn't matter when something was written (or recorded for that matter) to make it "new"

My god, dude.  Some of those posts are CONVERSATIONS WITH YOU FOR FUCK'S SAKE, where I am agreeing with you!  As well as chastising others for having the contrasting opinion.

Be better.

I'm saying, people who have that mentality will never be wrong (in their own minds)....




/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

I'm saying, people who have that mentality will never be wrong (in their own minds)....

Oh, shit.  That's right, you did.  My bad.

Is that so hard to say?

Apparently...yes.  Yes, it is.

[cineater]

We're all disappointed we haven't gotten more music out of GNR.  But we get talking about why, making assumptions, trying to understand and we basically go up our own assholes when we think we know the reason why.  Ask yourself what you really know and what is just opinion from what you've read on GNR boards.

I blame GNR for not letting us know what's going on but then again it's also a business and I totally get that the fans are outsiders and there's only so much information they are entitled to.  We're just the fans.

I agree with that.

Here is where some people lose me.  I take nothing but grief from some for these supposed blasphemous opinions on lack of new material and reason for such.

Then something like Slash's comment come out where he says they haven't really been in the studio proper or done anything yet.

How am I, and othesr like me, somehow STILL taking the loss on this debate?  That's the kind of thing I find to be the ultimate weak sauce.  I have the opinions I have based on all available evidence.  Then, even though one of the principal players in all this confirms that very thing...not only am I still "wrong" (somehow).....but the people telling me I am "wrong" never have to issue even a half hearted admission that what Slash said was discouraging.

For me it's the constant speculation and assumption it has to be Axl's fault.  It's drilled into people's head during these board discussions.  He even said something about you don't know what it took just to be where he was at when he said it.  It always comes back to it's Axl fault.  Beta who knows, said he works all the time, although that was a while ago.  Remember the lawsuit against Azoff?  People forget he won that but bitched he wasted time with lawsuits. 

Is the answer to everything really Axl's fault?  Is he really that bad guy, controlling everything?  Angus said he came in, didn't have a problem with him and he nailed it.  The cartoon people, same thing.  Duff and Slash still willing to truck around the planet with him.

We want stuff as fans, doesn't mean the band has to or plans on giving it to us.  What puts us in the wrong is thinking we know what's going on, believing our own assumptions from our pit of despair.    But I hear ya, where the hell is the music?

[jarmo]

I'm saying, people who have that mentality will never be wrong (in their own minds)....

Oh, shit.  That's right, you did.  My bad.

Is that so hard to say?

Apparently...yes.  Yes, it is.

Oh, I apologize that my generalization insulted you personally. It wasn't my aim. I was wrong, sorry.

Apparently, no it isn't.




/jarmo

[(t)]

Oh yeah, and also the "Well he hasn't done it so it must not interest him. The actions speak for themselves" excuse.

At the end of the day, they know close to nothing about what he actually wants....

That's the thing, we don't know, and Axl doesn't tell us, which leads to speculation and assumptions. Those chats back in '08 were extremely enlightening, and I think softened people's opinions about Axl for a long time. But that was a long time ago now, and Axl hasn't said a whole lot (to us) in the interim, so we don't really know where his head is at from an artistic standpoint anymore.

[jarmo]

Maybe he just learned from his experiences of being excited and talking about things that didn't pan out. Just like everyone else in the band.





/jarmo

[Vezara]

Let me try with a bit of an analogy. It is probably a bad analogy because the two businesses have nothing in common but still paints a picture
I am in the construction business... Let me compare building a house to making music
In order to make a house (song), one needs to have an idea (concept) of what he wants to build (ideas of songs).
Then there is a two year period of paper works just to start creating an official project for a house (getting the band together, thinking about financing, etc.)
Drawing the actual project (writing songs and music)
Working on the finance for building (talking to record companies)
Starting to build (going into the studio and recording parts of music)
Once we finish building we have the inspection (the mix of a song) and do the legal paperwork (printing music)
Selling the house, advertising, etc. (selling music, advertising and touring)
Now in a construction company it is straight forward, the goal is to make the most amount of money in the least amount of time and repeat the process.
Making a building with 12 apartments is another level (an album)
Building a compound with a couple of buildings is the ultimate challenge.
I think that GNR or Axl started building a compound, he has got a lot of unfinished buildings that he has been building for 20+ years, he has finished a fantastic building in 2008 but hasn't sold all that well.
He is still building... and wants to finish it somehow on his own terms.
People are demanding all sorts of stuff...
We want to buy apartments from you now!!
Abandon all that you have been working on for two decades and start building new buildings...
Others have already made 20 houses while you haven't finished yours yet...
You have finished only two houses, we want more... right now!
Let us into the construction site to see what you have been working on!
etc., etc.

[Gavgnr]

Sick of reading the same old arguments and counter arguments in this thread. Surely it cannot be disputed that gnr’s music output is, comparatively speaking, pretty minimal. We also know that the illusions were practically ripped from Axl’s hands so they could be released in September ’91. We are also aware that the release of Chinese was set back on probable numerous occasions before its eventual release in 2008. Now, in comparison, take a look at Slash’s musical output over the last 20 years. You don’t have to be Einstein to see who might be the ‘block’ to a new Guns release. Let me point out that I’m not criticising Axl here, but my view is that you’d have to be willingly blind to escape the conclusion that no music can be released until Axl wants it released. Now, we could speculate all day long about why that might be. Is it perfectionism? Possibly. We are aware that Axl wasn't happy with the illusions in their released form. We also know that there were finishing touches still to be added to the record in December 2006, yet it is clear from the locker leaks that a good many of the Chinese tracks were practically ready for release in the early noughties. Or, maybe Axl works in his own schedule and will only release music whenever the fuck he wants to, if at all. My opinion is it’s a hefty mixture of both.

[jarmo]

Appetite, Lies, Illusions, Chinese. You either just enjoy it, or enjoy it with a feeling of being "upset" that there's not more.

At the end of the day, you can't really do anything about it.

They'll release the music they want, when they want.... Now, this isn't meant as an insult or anything, but constantly complaining about it hasn't really made a big difference since the dawn of the Internet... 




/jarmo

[Gavgnr]

You’re bang on the money there pal. We can go over this stuff ‘forever and a day’ but nothings gonna change

[jarmo]

I hear the excuse about it being frustrating so it's ok to keep going on and on about it. The end result is the same though...

Hey, I used to E word!  See, even I can learn a new trick. Change reason for excuse! Woohoo!





/jarmo

[Gavgnr]

I hate having a moan, I really do. I’ve said my piece and that’s it. I’m usually very placid but every now and then the devil flares up 

I love this band. I’m looking forward to London next July 

[DAVE ROCK]

Sick of reading the same old arguments and counter arguments in this thread. Surely it cannot be disputed that gnr’s music output is, comparatively speaking, pretty minimal. We also know that the illusions were practically ripped from Axl’s hands so they could be released in September ’91. We are also aware that the release of Chinese was set back on probable numerous occasions before its eventual release in 2008. Now, in comparison, take a look at Slash’s musical output over the last 20 years. You don’t have to be Einstein to see who might be the ‘block’ to a new Guns release. Let me point out that I’m not criticising Axl here, but my view is that you’d have to be willingly blind to escape the conclusion that no music can be released until Axl wants it released. Now, we could speculate all day long about why that might be. Is it perfectionism? Possibly. We are aware that Axl wasn't happy with the illusions in their released form. We also know that there were finishing touches still to be added to the record in December 2006, yet it is clear from the locker leaks that a good many of the Chinese tracks were practically ready for release in the early noughties. Or, maybe Axl works in his own schedule and will only release music whenever the fuck he wants to, if at all. My opinion is it’s a hefty mixture of both.

[axlroses]

Slash has much more freedom on his own and his stuff outside of GNR is not scrutinized.  Everything GNR does is hyper analyzed

[jarmo]

I hate having a moan, I really do. I’ve said my piece and that’s it. I’m usually very placid but every now and then the devil flares up 

I love this band. I’m looking forward to London next July 

  It happens to most of us.





/jarmo

[D-GenerationX]

Is the answer to everything really Axl's fault?  Is he really that bad guy, controlling everything?  Angus said he came in, didn't have a problem with him and he nailed it.  The cartoon people, same thing.  Duff and Slash still willing to truck around the planet with him.

I think "fault" is a loaded term because the connotation is inherently negative.

I think it more accurate to say Axl is the final word on all matters.  Think about it.  Is anything going to happen these days if he is not onboard?  Is there a real chance of him taking the approach "well, I don't really feel like doing this...but I guess I am outvoted."  I find that far fetched.

Conversely, I have always rejected the premise Axl is just moving heaven and earth to get new material out but "the industry" is conspiring against him.  That's horseshit.  Bands put out albums every week of every year.  And never seem to run into these supposed herculean obstacles that only apply to this band.

[D-GenerationX]

Sick of reading the same old arguments and counter arguments in this thread. Surely it cannot be disputed that gnr’s music output is, comparatively speaking, pretty minimal. We also know that the illusions were practically ripped from Axl’s hands so they could be released in September ’91. We are also aware that the release of Chinese was set back on probable numerous occasions before its eventual release in 2008. Now, in comparison, take a look at Slash’s musical output over the last 20 years. You don’t have to be Einstein to see who might be the ‘block’ to a new Guns release. Let me point out that I’m not criticising Axl here, but my view is that you’d have to be willingly blind to escape the conclusion that no music can be released until Axl wants it released. Now, we could speculate all day long about why that might be. Is it perfectionism? Possibly. We are aware that Axl wasn't happy with the illusions in their released form. We also know that there were finishing touches still to be added to the record in December 2006, yet it is clear from the locker leaks that a good many of the Chinese tracks were practically ready for release in the early noughties. Or, maybe Axl works in his own schedule and will only release music whenever the fuck he wants to, if at all. My opinion is it’s a hefty mixture of both.

All 100% fair.

Good post.

[jarmo]

I think it more accurate to say Axl is the final word on all matters.  Think about it.  Is anything going to happen these days if he is not onboard?  Is there a real chance of him taking the approach "well, I don't really feel like doing this...but I guess I am outvoted."  I find that far fetched.

I'm happy that he has that kind of integrity and freedom to do so. Not everyone has.

But with that in mind, I don't buy your assumption. Didn't he sing Coma during the previous tour, because he knew it would make others happy? It would've been easier for him to just not even consider it...

Conversely, I have always rejected the premise Axl is just moving heaven and earth to get new material out but "the industry" is conspiring against him.  That's horseshit.  Bands put out albums every week of every year.  And never seem to run into these supposed herculean obstacles that only apply to this band.

You make it sound like a conspiracy. Which in turn makes it all sound silly. Which I guess is the point.

The reality might be simpler. There might've been expectations from him on others that were never met. He even mentioned these around the release of Chinese Democracy.


Since then, they've released material so hopefully that part is in the past.




/jarmo