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Author Topic: Why did Chinese Democracy take so long to be released?  (Read 567 times)
Carlos Gunner
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« on: January 15, 2023, 03:46:08 PM »

I think most songs off CD were written before Rock in Rio 2001, and there were many many more songs that could have made the album.
Then Why did Axl decide to release CD only in 2008, many years later?
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cineater
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« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2023, 05:01:13 PM »

If that era interests you, you need to read Chinese Whispers  http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059  It will take you from 93 to 2008.  The Axl quote at the beginning says it all.
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Carlos Gunner
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« Reply #2 on: January 15, 2023, 05:06:26 PM »

If that era interests you, you need to read Chinese Whispers  http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059  It will take you from 93 to 2008.  The Axl quote at the beginning says it all.
thank you
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Carlos Gunner
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« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2023, 05:28:36 PM »

If that era interests you, you need to read Chinese Whispers  http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059  It will take you from 93 to 2008.  The Axl quote at the beginning says it all.
Thank you again, I see it is not a simple question but it was a long story.
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cineater
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« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2023, 06:53:58 PM »

If that era interests you, you need to read Chinese Whispers  http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059  It will take you from 93 to 2008.  The Axl quote at the beginning says it all.
Thank you again, I see it is not a simple question but it was a long story.

That it was.  hihi  I have to say I enjoyed the ride.  'It's more a roller-coaster than the train we use to know.'
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« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2023, 10:53:56 PM »

If that era interests you, you need to read Chinese Whispers  http://www.gnrevolution.com/viewtopic.php?id=5059  It will take you from 93 to 2008.  The Axl quote at the beginning says it all.

Thanks for posting that.  I hadn't read a lot of that in a long, long time, and I had never read some of it.
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DeN
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« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2023, 08:07:49 AM »



interesting to note that the Sean Beavan version of the album was almost completed in early 2000
and delivered to the record company who pushed it back...
« Last Edit: January 19, 2023, 05:16:27 PM by DeN » Logged

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LunsJail
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« Reply #7 on: January 21, 2023, 03:57:45 PM »

Procrastination
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DeN
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« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2023, 04:06:38 PM »



no, when you look at the events it has more to do with finding a stable line up & record company who didn't have faith on the music.
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« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2023, 01:33:30 AM »

o, when you look at the events it has more to do with finding a stable line up & record company who didn't have faith on the music.

I half-agree.  It was definitely a task for Axl to discover musicians who would stick it out with him.  However, the record label invested a whopping $13 million into the project, making it allegedly the most expensive record ever.  If they had no faith in the music, they would've done the opposite.
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DeN
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« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2023, 09:41:52 AM »


you say that like if it was the same entity who managed and invested in the project all along...
it's not. there was a waltz of changes, different companies, acquisitions, not even talking about ceo changes...
in that kind of environment, it didn't help to deliver.

not saying Axl has no part of responsability, but it's too easy to put all the weight on his shoulders.

with a solid artistic director/manager at the time, it would have been easier I think, and the album could have been a reality in 2002-2003, maybe even in 2000. perfect date if you ask me.

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« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2023, 03:49:10 PM »


Procrastination


Yep.  Combined with self doubt and fear for its reception.

But when you are the sole big chief, and there is no one else in the operation with enough stature to kick you in the ass some, everything goes on your timetable.  Regardless of whether that is the right course.

If you recall, Ron Thal was really the only one that ever spoke out on this.  Because to him (and most sane people) all this delay was crazy time.  But the others had just been long beaten down and lulled into acceptance. 

Keep in mind who was the only one calling Axl out for his deplorable behavior on the initial 1991 tour : Matt Sorum.  Because he was the newest and he knew this was no way to operate.  But the others had all been conditioned to accept Axl's craziness.
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« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2023, 03:50:49 PM »


you say that like if it was the same entity who managed and invested in the project all along...
it's not. there was a waltz of changes, different companies, acquisitions, not even talking about ceo changes...
in that kind of environment, it didn't help to deliver.

not saying Axl has no part of responsability, but it's too easy to put all the weight on his shoulders.

with a solid artistic director/manager at the time, it would have been easier I think, and the album could have been a reality in 2002-2003, maybe even in 2000. perfect date if you ask me.


There is zero reason this album should not have come out in 2006.

Things were primed.  He had a stable band.  He looked and sounded his best live.  Not a one of us would dispute that Axl's 2006 performances were far and away his best with any incarnation of his misfit band.
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« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2023, 10:30:32 AM »


Bumblefoot was brought in the band in 2006. and had to re-record parts (or add his) to the album. and Brain left, Frank Ferrer had to record some parts too.

could be one of the reasons.

another reason, not the least, vocals weren't finished. Axl recorded at the Palms recording studios
https://sleazeroxx.com/recording-chinese-democracy-axl-rose-at-the-palms-studio/

and lastly the negotiations with the label & Best Buy...
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jarmo
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« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2023, 01:23:07 PM »

Axl himself gave one release date, that was for March 6th, 2007.






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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2023, 03:59:47 PM »

I only recently read a piece (on another source) that basically documents the years from 1993 to 2008. Sure you have all read it.  It does sound like the album was ready in 2006. Infact it was probably done from 2002 -2004 on the whole give or take a few song mixes  I can't believe the years wasted in a) trying to find a successful producer/mixer. Sounds like the songs were done they just couldn't get the right sound/mix..wtf?? Most albums sound great now, it shouldn't that difficult to find a professional. b) re-recording every single part each time a member left ..I mean come on. c) agreeing how to release....basically what most bands sort out pretty damn quickly when wanting to release new music. . Such a shame So many youthful years wasted on utter silly things. Question;  Would the album  of the same songs have sounded that different if released a few years earlier by a different producer? Possibly. Marginally. Was a lot of momentum crucially missed via bad decisions, tinkering,? 100*% absolutely.
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Gavgnr
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« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2023, 06:51:18 PM »

My view is that the album was finally released in 2008 mostly in part due to Azoff/Gould being on board. The record in all likelihood wouldn’t have sounded much different had it been released in 2006, or 2002 for that matter. Such a shame that so many years passed without this music being heard in its official form. And here we are, facing the same issues all over again.
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« Reply #17 on: Yesterday at 02:26:05 AM »

My view is that the album was finally released in 2008 mostly in part due to Azoff/Gould being on board. The record in all likelihood wouldn’t have sounded much different had it been released in 2006, or 2002 for that matter. Such a shame that so many years passed without this music being heard in its official form. And here we are, facing the same issues all over again.

I think the "issues" are different today: they are older, their earnings are over the top, probably at least one of them is lazy as fuck. And we don't even know if they are really recording something in order to release a full album. We have hints of what it could be, based almost on nothing. We are reassured cause we know for sure there are CD songs that didn't make it and they can work on them. But that's it.

During the CD making the issues were different: too many people came and went , too many people involved in general, axl's lawsuits problems, the idea that you can be productive recording  3 seconds ideas here and there  and put them togheter like it's a puzzle. And lot more...And we knew the album was going to come out, mainly because they spent 13 million dollars. So it's very different, even if the result is the same: a big waste of time.

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DeN
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« Reply #18 on: Yesterday at 07:33:19 AM »




plus there's something we never discuss and I'm not sure if it has an impact of the decision of releasing new music or not, but Axl has this contract about his publishing rights until 2025, I don't know the details but I'm wondering if...
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DeN
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« Reply #19 on: Yesterday at 07:41:22 AM »

I only recently read a piece (on another source) that basically documents the years from 1993 to 2008. Sure you have all read it.  It does sound like the album was ready in 2006. Infact it was probably done from 2002 -2004 on the whole give or take a few song mixes  I can't believe the years wasted in a) trying to find a successful producer/mixer. Sounds like the songs were done they just couldn't get the right sound/mix..wtf?? Most albums sound great now, it shouldn't that difficult to find a professional. b) re-recording every single part each time a member left ..I mean come on. c) agreeing how to release....basically what most bands sort out pretty damn quickly when wanting to release new music. . Such a shame So many youthful years wasted on utter silly things. Question;  Would the album  of the same songs have sounded that different if released a few years earlier by a different producer? Possibly. Marginally. Was a lot of momentum crucially missed via bad decisions, tinkering,? 100*% absolutely.


there's a 1999/2000 version of the album who sounds more industrial and rough apparently.
Bob Ezrin came to visit and give guidance, he wasn't too enthusiastic about the material.

it would have been cool to have it in 2000 after the mastering, even if Robin left at the time,
Buckethead joined at the end of the 1999 year. I still think it would have be the way to go.

yeah I know everyone has an opinion and an assh...  hihi


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they can fight about it, money, it's a bag of gold.
they can fight about it, money, the story goes.
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