CHINESE DEMOCRACY NOT A FINISHED PRODUCT? Tommy Stinson interview

[Wooody]

I thought this was odd:
"That Jimmy Iovine pulled that record out of Axl's hands at the fucking 11.30th hour is the only disappointing part of that," he adds. "I don't know if it would have changed anything about the public's view of it, the only thing it would have changed was Axl's view of it. He was this close to being able to sign off on that fucking thing, and they pulled it just before he was completely ready to be going 'I'm done with it', it was just a little too quick on that. That's unfortunate. But all things considered, we made a great record."

more here:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/guns-n-roses-tommy-stinson-on-axl-rose-chinese-democracy-punk-rock?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=classic-rock&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR3scIdBrUIQUjOkr8FBCcFidLJJ3fBVYpM0Sbi4UveNj4LziEj5Sezp_0c

[Oliver]

Yes I remember reading about this back then. I also think that's one of the reasons why Axl refused to do any promo/touring right after the release of the album.

[Wooody]

Maybe that's why Madagascar vocals are shit. 

[AdZ]

Maybe that's why Madagascar vocals are shit. 

?!

[D-GenerationX]

Yes I remember reading about this back then. I also think that's one of the reasons why Axl refused to do any promo/touring right after the release of the album.

Well...he sure showed them, didn't he?

Was only 10 years of his life's work.

[sky dog]

 
Chinese is still alive! Apparently it’s a 23 year project!

[Wooody]

Maybe that's why Madagascar vocals are shit. 

?!

Yeah, the rock in rio 3 version is the one I listen to. I don't know why he changed it. I don't like the raspy vocals he used on the album, it felt forced, vocals strained.... like constipated or something. MEH !

[ITARocker]

Maybe that's why Madagascar vocals are shit.  

?!

Yeah, the rock in rio 3 version is the one I listen to. I don't know why he changed it. I don't like the raspy vocals he used on the album, it felt forced, vocals strained.... like constipated or something. MEH !

It sounds forced because it is...the vocals are completely built on a laptop...the climax of the raspy part (the "I" part) is made with pieces of vocals glued togheter and then heavily autotuned, but it's not a "natural" vocal line. And the transition to the clean voice is very amateurish  tbh...It's the song that sounds more like a demo than a finished song. I think that he had this good idea to begin with that was never fully developed as it should have.

[PermissionToLand]

It sounds forced because it is...the vocals are completely built on a laptop...the climax of the raspy part (the "I" part) is made with pieces of vocals glued togheter

Where are you getting this from?

heavily autotuned, but it's not a "natural" vocal line.

There are a couple notes pitch corrected, but definitely not "heavily". It's not even a quarter of the notes.

And the transition to the clean voice is very amateurish

That is how his voice sounded around '99 when the vocals were recorded. Listen to Live Era. He has rasp in the lower range but it goes clean as he gets into the high notes.

[ITARocker]

It sounds forced because it is...the vocals are completely built on a laptop...the climax of the raspy part (the "I" part) is made with pieces of vocals glued togheter

Where are you getting this from?

heavily autotuned, but it's not a "natural" vocal line.

There are a couple notes pitch corrected, but definitely not "heavily". It's not even a quarter of the notes.

And the transition to the clean voice is very amateurish

That is how his voice sounded around '99 when the vocals were recorded. Listen to Live Era. He has rasp in the lower range but it goes clean as he gets into the high notes.

U cant hold that long vocal line without breathing with those changes  .It's pretty clear, it sounds completely unnatural. And autotune is not made only for the pitch, as u know. A guy on the internet when cd came out show me exactly how and where they worked on those vocal lines, cause i wouldn't believe it too and told him he was a hater. In any case they took 2/3 vocal lines and made them sound like it was 1 take only. Or they stretched parts of the ones they took. That's why he never, not even once, done it live like it's done on the album (sometimes back in 2010 era, when he had his powers back  , he could even hold the line a little more longer than he usually does, even easily, but making it more "flat" with less changes, in his typical chainsaw mode with a lot of voice pushing but much less control, and still couldn't hold it as long as in the studio album). I'm not saying that he's faking it, it's just a choice, but the final result is that "forced" thing the guy was talking about. He used that kind of voice with the rasp, which is unnatural in itself, so he could "mask" better that part, it was a stylistic choice for the song, probably he thought that holding the vocal line it could give more a "dramatic feel" than interrupting it at a certain point in order to take a breath. I even agree with that, even if it sounds a little too much. In any case i dont understand why u bring up live era, which wasnt really recorded in 99  :

I would add this: remember in that trunk radio interview when s. bach asked axl about pro tools on lead vocals and axl basically said that with pro tools the work was faster and what he didnt't like about it were stretch things??... Well i would ask him about the meaning of the words "fast" and "stretch" in his dictionary  

[Wooody]

YEah I don't think the vocals are THAT tinkered with, but GOOD, they are not. Rock in Rio was awesome, why not do it like that ?

[MrMojoRa]

I thought this was odd:
"That Jimmy Iovine pulled that record out of Axl's hands at the fucking 11.30th hour is the only disappointing part of that," he adds. "I don't know if it would have changed anything about the public's view of it, the only thing it would have changed was Axl's view of it. He was this close to being able to sign off on that fucking thing, and they pulled it just before he was completely ready to be going 'I'm done with it', it was just a little too quick on that. That's unfortunate. But all things considered, we made a great record."

more here:

https://www.loudersound.com/news/guns-n-roses-tommy-stinson-on-axl-rose-chinese-democracy-punk-rock?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_content=classic-rock&utm_campaign=socialflow&fbclid=IwAR3scIdBrUIQUjOkr8FBCcFidLJJ3fBVYpM0Sbi4UveNj4LziEj5Sezp_0c

They made an INCREDIBLE record that can't be fully appreciated unless you are listening with quality headphones and system.


Listened to CD hundreds of time 2008-2023 cd, then streaming. The first time I heard it through audio-technica heaphones plugged into my RodeCaster Pro......

......HOLY FUCK THAT OPENED UP SOME DORMANT BRAIN WAVE CHANNELS!!


SO, ya, they made a GREAT ALBUM!

[PermissionToLand]

U cant hold that long vocal line without breathing with those changes  .It's pretty clear, it sounds completely unnatural. And autotune is not made only for the pitch, as u know. A guy on the internet when cd came out show me exactly how and where they worked on those vocal lines, cause i wouldn't believe it too and told him he was a hater. In any case they took 2/3 vocal lines and made them sound like it was 1 take only. Or they stretched parts of the ones they took. That's why he never, not even once, done it live like it's done on the album (sometimes back in 2010 era, when he had his powers back  , he could even hold the line a little more longer than he usually does, even easily, but making it more "flat" with less changes, in his typical chainsaw mode with a lot of voice pushing but much less control, and still couldn't hold it as long as in the studio album). I'm not saying that he's faking it, it's just a choice, but the final result is that "forced" thing the guy was talking about. He used that kind of voice with the rasp, which is unnatural in itself, so he could "mask" better that part, it was a stylistic choice for the song, probably he thought that holding the vocal line it could give more a "dramatic feel" than interrupting it at a certain point in order to take a breath. I even agree with that, even if it sounds a little too much. In any case i dont understand why u bring up live era, which wasnt really recorded in 99  :

I would add this: remember in that trunk radio interview when s. bach asked axl about pro tools on lead vocals and axl basically said that with pro tools the work was faster and what he didnt't like about it were stretch things??... Well i would ask him about the meaning of the words "fast" and "stretch" in his dictionary  

Are you kidding? Many singers have held much longer lines than that.

So... some guy "showed you" how it was done. Okay, how? Explain. "Show" me.

The fact that he couldn't perfectly recreate the line live is not proof that it was fake. He also never recreated parts from AFD and UYI perfectly on the tours for those albums. A studio is perfect conditions and you get as many takes as you need. Live is another beast entirely.

Axl's vocals for Live Era were recorded in '98/'99. You didn't know that?

[sky dog]

I hope y’all realize how silly you are. Splitting hairs over pretty much nothing.

I want Axl to cover American Pie…

[Dr. Blutarsky]

Maybe that's why Madagascar vocals are shit. 

?!

Yeah, the rock in rio 3 version is the one I listen to. I don't know why he changed it. I don't like the raspy vocals he used on the album, it felt forced, vocals strained.... like constipated or something. MEH !

When I go back to listen to the album, I always skip it because the vocals are not good.  Sounding constipated is pretty accurate. 

I also like Silkworms from RIR3 over Absurd. But Absurd is better than the album version of  Madagascar IMO.

[ITARocker]

U cant hold that long vocal line without breathing with those changes  .It's pretty clear, it sounds completely unnatural. And autotune is not made only for the pitch, as u know. A guy on the internet when cd came out show me exactly how and where they worked on those vocal lines, cause i wouldn't believe it too and told him he was a hater. In any case they took 2/3 vocal lines and made them sound like it was 1 take only. Or they stretched parts of the ones they took. That's why he never, not even once, done it live like it's done on the album (sometimes back in 2010 era, when he had his powers back  , he could even hold the line a little more longer than he usually does, even easily, but making it more "flat" with less changes, in his typical chainsaw mode with a lot of voice pushing but much less control, and still couldn't hold it as long as in the studio album). I'm not saying that he's faking it, it's just a choice, but the final result is that "forced" thing the guy was talking about. He used that kind of voice with the rasp, which is unnatural in itself, so he could "mask" better that part, it was a stylistic choice for the song, probably he thought that holding the vocal line it could give more a "dramatic feel" than interrupting it at a certain point in order to take a breath. I even agree with that, even if it sounds a little too much. In any case i dont understand why u bring up live era, which wasnt really recorded in 99  :

I would add this: remember in that trunk radio interview when s. bach asked axl about pro tools on lead vocals and axl basically said that with pro tools the work was faster and what he didnt't like about it were stretch things??... Well i would ask him about the meaning of the words "fast" and "stretch" in his dictionary  

Are you kidding? Many singers have held much longer lines than that.

So... some guy "showed you" how it was done. Okay, how? Explain. "Show" me.

The fact that he couldn't perfectly recreate the line live is not proof that it was fake. He also never recreated parts from AFD and UYI perfectly on the tours for those albums. A studio is perfect conditions and you get as many takes as you need. Live is another beast entirely.

Axl's vocals for Live Era were recorded in '98/'99. You didn't know that?

Did i say something about other singers holding a longer line? I'm just saying that is totally unnatural holding a vocal line that long with all those unnatural passaggios. The dynamics of those vocals are close to impossible... That's why i was saying that he could even reproduce those parts live, but with less dynamics (or more "flat") with his typical chainsaw voice. And the last part of that particular segment is CLEARLY stretched. And again, to me IT'S OK, it's a studio thing. It's not unusual. I was just explain why he sounded strange and constipated. A lot of vocals, if not all the vocals, are "fake" in studio: you can't sing, for example, with 3 voices on 3 different octaves simultaneously   but on studio album it happens and it's not a big deal. Plus Chinese democracy shows some others unnatural vocal passaggios manipulated in the recording studio, for example on street of dreams: "But that's not stardust on my feet"... Do you really think that the  words "sturdust on my" comes from the same vocal line (rasp-clean-rasp in 1 sec?)?? It's a copy paste: and it's ok (to me sounds completely like shit but ok it's just my taste). I really don't know who or what are u defending while i'm not attacking anybody or anything. it is what it is. I told many times that the songs of CD are an incredible collage of pieces recorded here and there trough the years, and vocals are no exception. Brian may complained that Axl used to cut copy paste his solos/takes to artificially build another one that fit better (in axl's opinion, obviously) the song he was playing. Do you really think that he would have had some scruples to do the same with his vocals knowing all the problems he had with his voice??

About live era: he re dubbed 10 songs (or parts) or something like that. It's not a full studio album. The point was bringin up live era to prove something against what i was saying: when i'm talking about amateurish transition form rasp to clean, i'm not talking about the voice, i'm talking about how that change was made on the recording. Who cares if he had that timbre in 99...