Religulous Trailer

[SLCPUNK]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself, also I like shell fish and from what I've read it's considered an abomination.

[ppbebe]

isn't it because it consists of many apostles versions and none of Jesus's?

[TAP]

Because human beings are allowed to have their own interpretation.  I can believe mine is correct, and someone else can believe theirs is correct... that's what makes great literature. 

ok, but the starting point of this exchange was your claim that there is such a thing as a 'true' Christian suggesting that some interpretations are correct and some are not on an absolute scale.

I do believe that there are such things as true Christians.  I guess my point is that I have the right to feel that way without being called names or having my intelligence called into question, and I don't feel I should have to defend that right.  I was defending the Bible as great literature by saying that it's great because we all get to have our own interpretation.  I didn't say that I don't think mine is right!! 

What is a true Christian?

[TAP]

isn't it because it consists of many apostles versions and none of Jesus's?

None of the gospels were written by apostles or even eyewitnesses or even people who lived at that time in that place. No serious bible scholar on any side of the argument disputes that.

[TAP]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself

Are you a literature teacher?

[SLCPUNK]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself

Are you a literature teacher?

Not but my imaginary friend is so F U !!!!

[TAP]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself

Are you a literature teacher?

Not but my imaginary friend is so F U !!!!

Mine's a lawyer.

[JMack]

Mine may be both if I'm still on speaking terms with them....

[kmorgan]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself, also I like shell fish and from what I've read it's considered an abomination.

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction.  I won't pretend to be expert in theology; in fact, I'm ashamed that I'm not better prepared.  I wish that I had a scripture to spit out in reply to everything stated, because I'm sure there is one, but then it would just be a matter of "why should we believe the scriptures?"  And that all goes back to faith, which, to me, is unexplainable.   I will offer you this, which is the only way I can think to explain:  the Bible is divided into the Old Testament and the New Testament.  The OT was before Christ.  Those were the rules that were given to people to follow by God at that time to achieve salvation.  This was before Jesus, and was meant to serve as a guide for those believing in God, and it is where the "food laws" you are talking about are found.  The NT was written after Jesus was sent and died, and it seems contradictory because suddenly the rules changed, and Jesus told us that, as Christians, all we had to do was accept in our hearts that this man was sent to die for us.  By believing that, and accepting Jesus as our saviour, we now had a new path to salvation.    The NT is the "guidebook" that was written for Christians.  The word Christian comes from "Christ", meaning that Christians are those that follow the words of the NT and accept Jesus Christ as their savior.  I can't explain why the rules changed except to say that God sent Christ as proof of His love, and after that the "old school" beliefs are believed to have been good rules to some degree, but not the path to salvation anymore.  I think that God knew when he would send Christ, but knew that He had to set forth some sort of rules for people to follow until the time came.  I hope that makes sense.

[kmorgan]

Because human beings are allowed to have their own interpretation.  I can believe mine is correct, and someone else can believe theirs is correct... that's what makes great literature. 

ok, but the starting point of this exchange was your claim that there is such a thing as a 'true' Christian suggesting that some interpretations are correct and some are not on an absolute scale.

I do believe that there are such things as true Christians.  I guess my point is that I have the right to feel that way without being called names or having my intelligence called into question, and I don't feel I should have to defend that right.  I was defending the Bible as great literature by saying that it's great because we all get to have our own interpretation.  I didn't say that I don't think mine is right!! 

What is a true Christian?

Well, I wish I could explain, but I don't want to go through it all.  Ultimately, what it means to be a true Christian, to me, is that you have read the New Testament, and you believe that Jesus was sent to die for our sins.  He was sent by God to prove to the world that He was real, and as a Christian, you have faith in that.

Of course, there are the teachings of Jesus which we should all follow, but I realize that you don't have to be a Christian to live by a basic moral code.  Being a Christian does not automatically make people good, just as not being one does not automatically make people bad.  A "true Christian" realizes, however, that one day, even if we have accepted Jesus into our hearts, we will have to face our God and be accountable for all we have done.  That's where I think the problems arise.  So many people know that the path to salvation, (in Christianity), comes from the acceptance of Christ, so they think that by doing that, they have it covered, and live their lives however they want never thinking about what it will be like to answer for all that they do.  Those people, in my mind, are not living the life of a true Christian.

Dude, I realize that Christianity sets a lot of people off, and I understand.  It makes me mad, too.  It seems like Christians look down on everyone that does not believe what they do, and I'm sure that some do.  All I can do is offer my testimony and tell you that, I mess up like everyone else does.  I try so hard, and still do the WRONG thing.  I am saved according to my beliefs, but I, like most, could still use a lot of work.  I do work very hard to do what I believe is right, and I do pray.  I can tell you that when people are listening to praise songs and raising their hands, a lot of that is fake, but just as much is not.  It's the same feeling that ya get when you're listening to GnR, and you just lose yourself in it.  I've felt it, and it's great.  I have learned a lot through my faith... like acceptance, which I talked about before.  There was a time in my life when I would have said some pretty harsh things about certain subjects, and I was VERY consertative on a lot of issues, but after studying the Bible as an adult, I have found that God does not want that from me, (it's just not my place), and I work very hard to be totally accepting of others.   Bottom line here, though, is I will continue to stand by beliefs, just as you will stand by yours, and I believe we both the right to do so!

[TAP]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself, also I like shell fish and from what I've read it's considered an abomination.

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction. 

A lot of the bible is contradiction, it has nothing to do with interpretation - there are many passages which explicitly contradict other passages. And that's within in the gospels if you are trying for an OT/NT cop out.

[TAP]

Because human beings are allowed to have their own interpretation.  I can believe mine is correct, and someone else can believe theirs is correct... that's what makes great literature. 

ok, but the starting point of this exchange was your claim that there is such a thing as a 'true' Christian suggesting that some interpretations are correct and some are not on an absolute scale.

I do believe that there are such things as true Christians.  I guess my point is that I have the right to feel that way without being called names or having my intelligence called into question, and I don't feel I should have to defend that right.  I was defending the Bible as great literature by saying that it's great because we all get to have our own interpretation.  I didn't say that I don't think mine is right!! 

What is a true Christian?

Well, I wish I could explain, but I don't want to go through it all.  Ultimately, what it means to be a true Christian, to me, is that you have read the New Testament, and you believe that Jesus was sent to die for our sins.  He was sent by God to prove to the world that He was real, and as a Christian, you have faith in that.

I'm pretty sure most Christians believe that including the whackjobs. It doesn't really give us much to go on.

[freedom78]

Well, I wish I could explain, but I don't want to go through it all.  Ultimately, what it means to be a true Christian, to me, is that you have read the New Testament, and you believe that Jesus was sent to die for our sins.  He was sent by God to prove to the world that He was real, and as a Christian, you have faith in that.

What if you can't read? 

[kmorgan]

My problem with the Bible is that it contradicts itself, also I like shell fish and from what I've read it's considered an abomination.

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction. 

A lot of the bible is contradiction, it has nothing to do with interpretation - there are many passages which explicitly contradict other passages. And that's within in the gospels if you are trying for an OT/NT cop out.

I'm not looking for a cop out of any kind.  Man, why can't you take I'm saying for what it is?  I said that I don't know it all, and I'm explaining to the best of my abilities!  I DON'T KNOW!  MAYBE EVERYONE THAT EATS SHELLFISH IS REALLY IN TROUBLE!  I don't, so I'm good.  I realize that I am doing my religion a great injustice by not having all of the information to back up what I am saying.  This is why I didn't want to get so deep into this.  My whole problem was not with anyone not believing what I do; it was with the name calling and generalizations.

[kmorgan]

Because human beings are allowed to have their own interpretation.  I can believe mine is correct, and someone else can believe theirs is correct... that's what makes great literature. 

ok, but the starting point of this exchange was your claim that there is such a thing as a 'true' Christian suggesting that some interpretations are correct and some are not on an absolute scale.

I do believe that there are such things as true Christians.  I guess my point is that I have the right to feel that way without being called names or having my intelligence called into question, and I don't feel I should have to defend that right.  I was defending the Bible as great literature by saying that it's great because we all get to have our own interpretation.  I didn't say that I don't think mine is right!! 

What is a true Christian?

Well, I wish I could explain, but I don't want to go through it all.  Ultimately, what it means to be a true Christian, to me, is that you have read the New Testament, and you believe that Jesus was sent to die for our sins.  He was sent by God to prove to the world that He was real, and as a Christian, you have faith in that.

I'm pretty sure most Christians believe that including the whackjobs. It doesn't really give us much to go on.

See?  I'm not gonna win no matter what I say.  This is a pointless discussion, like I said before.  We both have the rights to believe what we choose, and it won't matter what I offer up as my point of view on the whole thing.  You won't accept it.  All I ask is that you accept my right to believe it.

[SLCPUNK]

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction. 

See now, I just find that downright patronizing.

[TAP]

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction. 

See now, I just find that downright patronizing.

Someone just had their reading skills blindly judged.

[TAP]

See?  I'm not gonna win no matter what I say.  This is a pointless discussion, like I said before.  We both have the rights to believe what we choose, and it won't matter what I offer up as my point of view on the whole thing.  You won't accept it.  All I ask is that you accept my right to believe it.

You don't read or write very well for a literature teacher. This thread has never been about taking away your right to believe what you choose, where did you get that from? Your argument/complaint was that people were somehow blindly judging you as a person because they/we didn't know what a true Christian was, yet you seem unable to explain what one is either.

[kmorgan]

I can see where you would interpret a lot of what the Bible says as contradiction. 

See now, I just find that downright patronizing.

Someone just had their reading skills blindly judged.

It really wasn't meant to be patronizing.  It was meant to say that I really do understand.  Not because I think I'm smart or anything else... just because I do really understand.  It confuses me too, and I've never tried to act like it doesn't.  Man, ya'll take things so personally.

[kmorgan]

See?  I'm not gonna win no matter what I say.  This is a pointless discussion, like I said before.  We both have the rights to believe what we choose, and it won't matter what I offer up as my point of view on the whole thing.  You won't accept it.  All I ask is that you accept my right to believe it.

You don't read or write very well for a literature teacher. This thread has never been about taking away your right to believe what you choose, where did you get that from? Your argument/complaint was that people were somehow blindly judging you as a person because they/we didn't know what a true Christian was, yet you seem unable to explain what one is either.

Man, what is your problem?  My complaint was this:  I'm reading this, and feeling like I'm being attacked because of my beliefs, and that's just not okay.   That is directly quoted from my original post.  I felt like I was being attacked and blindy judged.  I never said it was because they/you didn't know what a true Christian was.  You are the one that started asking questions, that I originally said I did not want to get into, and I tried to do my best to explain.  I've been nothing but straighforward with you and tried to do my best to understand every side of this, and you will not even make the attempt.