Rumour from Blabbermouth.net

[pilferk]

Huh?

I've talked to Pilferk several times on AIM before....if I wanted to tell him off I would have there. It's not like we're enemies because we disagree on this issue!  We've been friendly in the past.

Anyway, he's right about the Madagascar thing, I can admit that. I'm not here to win arguments or bitch at people with alter-egos.

(however, I did laugh when pilf and booker seemed to have vanished over the last page. I thought my argument was Swiss cheese )

As I said..I've made my point.  Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group?  Am I likely to change your mind? No.  Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again....

You wanted the last word...you got to have it....

[Booker Floyd]

(however, I did laugh when pilf and booker seemed to have vanished over the last page. I thought my argument was Swiss cheese )

Thats exactly why weve vanished.  Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother?  You think a song is political because its title - we get it.  Its an illogical viewpoint.  The end.

[grog mug]

Has anyone actually e-mailed blabbermouth to see where this rumor came from?  Could of been just a random e-mail that blabbermouth blew out of proportion to get all the GN'R fans going...

[duga]

Has anyone actually e-mailed blabbermouth to see where this rumor came from?  Could of been just a random e-mail that blabbermouth blew out of proportion to get all the GN'R fans going...

It wasn't even Blabbermouth news, it was someone at the Blabbermouth-forum (commenting GNR news) that said this.

[holidayidol]

As I said..I've made my point.  Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group?  Am I likely to change your mind? No.  Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again....

Thats exactly why weve vanished.  Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother?  You think a song is political because its title - we get it.  Its an illogical viewpoint.  The end.

Mmm hmmm, sure guys.  

Guess you missed Jarmo's post of Axl's dialogue concerning "Chinese Democracy".

AXL:
And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that......

If that ain't political....

Hey - I admitted to being incorrect about Madagascar. (I was concentrating on all the movie and political soundbytes used in the middle of the song.) But, I think it's time to perhaps give into the fact that Chinese Democracy is maybe just a little bit political.

[pilferk]

As I said..I've made my point.  Why continue to harp on it and bore the rest of the group?  Am I likely to change your mind? No.  Are you likely to change mine? No. You didn't really make any "new" points in your last post and I'm confident that nobody needs to have the same points rehashed over and over and over and over again....

Thats exactly why weve vanished.  Like Pilerk said, weve made our points and nothing new is really being said, so why bother?  You think a song is political because its title - we get it.  Its an illogical viewpoint.  The end.

Mmm hmmm, sure guys.  

Guess you missed Jarmo's post of Axl's dialogue concerning "Chinese Democracy".

AXL:
And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that......

If that ain't political....

Hey - I admitted to being incorrect about Madagascar. (I was concentrating on all the movie and political soundbytes used in the middle of the song.) But, I think it's time to perhaps give into the fact that Chinese Democracy is maybe just a little bit political.

Nope, I read the quote.  It sounds like he's saying exactly what I did.  He was thinking about China, and how it relates/is similar/is an allegory for a lot of what's happened to him.

But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion....so, by all means..have the last word again.

[holidayidol]

"But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion"

Hahah! Yes you obviously do. (Isn't that an oxymoron?)

He is NOT saying what you did, but precisely the opposite.  He mentions nowhere about this being allegorical, but a song about the emotions he saw inside the movie Kundun, about the Dalai Llama. So he wrote a song expressing how oppresive the Chinese government was.

Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy?   That'll tell you what this is about.

[kockstar99]

Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy?   That'll tell you what this is about.

Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us.....

[pilferk]

"But again, I've no wish to continue a dead end discussion"

Hahah! Yes you obviously do. (Isn't that an oxymoron?)

In that, at least, you're quite right (thought I'm not sure it is a true oxymoron....possibly). The only reason I posted was because you asked me a direct question....  So, with that said, since you "wondered" where Booker and I went the first time we were "done", I'll give you formal notice:

I feel the conversation is at a dead end. We're obviously reading and interpreting things VERY differently. At this point, I've simply taken an "agree to disagree" stance.  Therefore, this will be my last post on the subject.

Is that clear enough?

[the dirt]

Have you read into the Falun Gong, and crossed-referenced that to the lyrics of Chinese Democracy?  That'll tell you what this is about.
 
 

Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us.....

It could go either way.
Someone post the lyrics and interpret what they believe they mean.

While I'm half and half here (meaning that CD is half political and half about Axl's situation) whatever way it's interpreted, one would be able to do it both ways.

I'm sure we all can make it completely political, or not, save the title- there is no clear cut winner here.

[holidayidol]

I feel the conversation is at a dead end.

You felt that way earlier too, but we made quite a bit more headway into the discussion.

We're obviously reading and interpreting things VERY differently.....
Is that clear enough?

I'm not sure that Axl's dialogue on the meaning of Chinese Democracy leaves much room for interpretation. I'll post the dialogue yet again:

And it's not necessarily pro or con about China. It's just that right now China symbolizes one of the strongest, yet most opressive countries and goverments in the world. And we are fortunate to live in a free country. And so in thinking about that......[sings Chinese Democracy]

Thats alot of work,... can you just post it for us.....

Well, that would be a lot of work for me too, as it runs pretty deep.

It's prefaced directly in the lyrics for Chinese Democracy;

If they were missionaries
Real time visionaries
Sitting in a Chinese school
To view my disinfatuation
I know that I?m a classic case
Watch my disenchanted face
Blame it on the Falun Gong
They've seen the end and you can?t hold on now

It's a religious movement/sect. And basically, you can get a quick history lesson from these links:
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/falungong.html
http://www.cesnur.org/testi/falun_042.htm#Anchor-21683

Here's a good snipit:

When the mainland Government launched its crackdown on the Falun Gong sect, it intended to stop the movement in its tracks.
But a year after the Beijing leadership was shaken by the appearance of 10,000 silent devotees at the Communist Party's headquarters in Zhongnanhai to protest against official persecution, the sect continues to flourish.
Today's protests are smaller, mainly because security forces keep a close watch on rail terminals and bus stations to try to stop members from entering the capital. But the steady stream of protesters turning up at Tiananmen Square expecting to be arrested shows that many adherents cannot be intimidated into abandoning their beliefs.
The Government's panic reaction after the Zhongnanhai demonstration has given greater momentum to the movement's crusade. Falun Gong followers are aggrieved that beliefs they see as healthy, benign and non-political should be labelled an evil cult. They use peaceful demonstrations as the only way to publicise injustice against thousands of fellow members serving prison sentences, and who - according to reports - are as undaunted behind bars as the daily protesters in Tiananmen Square.
There is no escape for the Government from this embarrassing situation. It has vilified the movement so thoroughly that it could not backtrack even if it felt inclined to. Social control remains its driving force. However apolitical Falun Gong followers claim to be, they represent the most formidable challenge to authority since the democracy movement in 1989.
Rioting farmers and disgruntled workers have failed to make as powerful an impact as the silent legions of Falun Gong followers, mainly middle-aged ladies, calmly carrying out physical exercises and talking about spiritual purity. That is because the sect's teachings point up a malaise and address a spiritual void in China that economic reform cannot fill.
However illogical and superstitious Falun Gong doctrines may sound to non-believers, they appeal to the generation born and raised during the Mao era, whose guiding force was once the Communist Party, and who have lived to see the old certainties overturned, with nothing to replace them but materialism.
The sect has offered a substitute that the Government has not been able to supply. It offers a path that does not depend on money, or influence or success. In that, it is not unlike many other religions flourishing in China and elsewhere.
Persecution will not bring it to a halt. Eventually the Government may recognise the best guarantee of social order is individual freedom.

[HoldenCaulfield]

Believe it or not, I've spent a lot of time lately trying to interpret the lyrics to 'Chinese Democracy', into some political context, and I've found some success. You have to do so with an open mind, because truth be told, we *don't* know what Axl's intentions were with writing this song, but here's a little info I've gathered...

"Blame it on the Falun Gong, they've seen the end and ya can't hold on now"

Okay, the Falun Gong is somewhat of a religious movement that originated in China, but is practiced all over the world. It's basically a movement with a Yoga-type of lifestyle (stretching, meditation, peace, love, etc.), however, there are so many people practicing this in China alone, that the Communist government classifies them as a group powerful enough to overthrow the current regime. So in response, anyone openly taking practice in or support the Falun Gong can, if desired, be killed on the spot. I forget how many innocent people have been killed and beaten just for practicing.

So from the Chinese government's perspective, if they were overthrown and democracy flourished, the Falun Gong would be a big part in that (Blame the Falun Gong for a democracy, which we (communist) didn't want).

"They've seen the end and ya can't hold on now"

The Falun Gong has always wanted democracy, so you can see where the "If they were missionaries, real-time visionaries" comes in. It's always been a vision of their's, if you will. So they've always seen the end (end of communism in China) and "ya can't hold on now" (democracy has one, our time is over).

I can go on, but I'll just post that bit.  

[delvis]

I lost the quote part of this so here it is anyway.

This was said earlier:

But those of us who prefer to use common sense rather than silly technicalities know that these songs arent political.  Axl himself has essentially said the same...but you still dont get it.  

From me:
So here's one for you,  Axl said this himself did he?  Where the fuck is the album he told us about 4 years ago.  Why should we believe anything the guy says.  If you were using common sense you would have figured that out by now.  So you still don't get it.  

I have been reading this crap fro the last 30 minutes and I am laughing my ass off.  Just so you all know, and I am sure you may not give a shit but I agree with Holiday Idol.  Axl is using politics to convey his message and in my opinion that gives his songs a political connection.  Commenting on Gov/Democracy etc... in any shape or form is political,  Axl is doing this.  

If we ever get the album, maybe we can discuss it further but for the time being I don't think we are going anywhere with this.  However, I did enjoy reading it.  

Dennis