Bill Gates vs Microsoft

[Gunner80]

All Mac users I know are or arty farty corksniffers who think they are from a special race because they don't know how to make XP run fast and stable

LOL, second rate troll ^^

At least be good at what you want to do...jeez. 

XP is by no means a "turd." 
 
P.S your avatar on the other hand....

Like this guy ^^

He personifies miserable, and has set out to make sure you know it.

He's light years away from your limp wristed half measures we see here.

Get to work you poon!

All Mac users I know are or arty farty corksniffers who think they are from a special race because they don't know how to make XP run fast and stable

LOL, second rate troll ^^

At least be good at what you want to do...jeez. 

XP is by no means a "turd." 
 
P.S your avatar on the other hand....

Like this guy ^^

He personifies miserable, and has set out to make sure you know it.

He's light years away from your limp wristed half measures we see here.

Get to work you poon!

And you're so fucking happy right?! SLC is nothing but a pampered fool.

[SLCPUNK]

Pampered? haha, by whom?

[-Jack-]

I have an dual booting iMac and prefer to be on XP rather than OSX.

XP just seems cleaner to me for some reason. Mac seems goofy and the mouse acceleration is so annoying... this is coming from someone who used OSX and OS9 at home before using XP.

[Atillla]

All Mac users I know are or arty farty corksniffers who think they are from a special race because they don't know how to make XP run fast and stable

LOL, second rate troll ^^

At least be good at what you want to do...jeez. 

Not everyone can be a first class troll like you..it needs lots of posts and deteriation of brain cells 






Guess what, you got 








again 

[SLCPUNK]

Yea, wow, you're really smart. 

Your Mom just shit you out didn't she? 

[pilferk]

Yeah, it really sucks having something that does everything you want as soon as you get it rather than having to put in time and energy to polish a turd.

As long as "what you want it to do" = an available piece of software for the mac.....or you give up performance (and your interface advantages) by running it in Virtual PC mode (or are willing to install XP, dual boot...of course, native XP performance on Mac hardware compared to similar PC hardware doesn't translate too well).

And as long as "what you want it to do" doesn''t involve signing on, reliably, to your Windows based work environment....without jumping through technical hoops that make your hair turn grey.

And as long as you don't want to play MOST of the latest games.

As long as you're OK with all that......Mac's are great for desktop publishing and photo editing.....oh, and listening to music!

[pilferk]

I sit here laughing quietly to myself from my iMac.

....in your mother's basement sipping wine after sniffing it's cork so you can now do some arty farty stuff in photo editing.....

You just wish I was there with you.   

Sorry, not into that whole thing. 

For the record I still use Wintel boxes on a daily basis and have worked extensively with the Windows platform since 3.1.  I've even done programming on Windows 2.0.   I was using beta versions of Window95 when it was merely a shell update for Windows 3.11.     But it's nice to have s stable platform that just works.  And well.

Yes....yes it is.

But when you need stable AND Useable....then you're fucked.

See, I love Macs.  No, really...I do.

The problem is: They don't do anything (or, mostly anything) that I need them to do.  I can't use them to work from home without doing a LOT more work to make them actually sign into our VPN, access our software, and let me actually work.  I can't play most of the games I want to at an acceptable level of performance (or at all, in some cases).  There's a whole slew of things I just can't do with a Mac (or can't do well enough, quickly enough, or easily enough to matter).....stable or not.

I have a multipartitioned (BIG) drive on my PC: Windows XP (which is now remarkably stable....just as they sunset it) and Linux.  They get me everything I want to do, and then some.

Mac is nice if you want to do REALLY basic stuff....it's also nice if you're coding in a "portable" environment...but I can get all that PLUS the stuff I want to be able to do in one (well, two if you count Linux as a seperate platform on the same box)......agreeably more unstable...platform.    So I'll trade the stability for useability when it comes right down to it.

[pilferk]

All Mac users I know are or arty farty corksniffers who think they are from a special race because they don't know how to make XP run fast and stable

Yeah, it really sucks having something that does everything you want as soon as you get it rather than having to put in time and energy to polish a turd.

Install XP, tweak literally 15 minutes in the services and shut off certain options in configuartion..........done.

Fast, stable, clean.

Mac costs almost 2 times more for the same performance...you cannot play most games....you will have problems with certain hardware and software (don't even pretend)...the new breed of hackers are targeting Macs with their trojans....and if you want to make it faster, you can't upgrade the hardware, no you must buy a new one....so if I want to get a new exhaust for my car, I will buy a new car....yeah, great 

And yes, I had one, that's how I know it's an overrated piece of junk for everyday use...XP is more than enough if you got a higher IQ than 70.  Sure, if you are a professional designer or something use Mac, but for others it's just corksniffing and pretending you are better 

 

Oh.  My.  God.

Wrong on SO many levels. 

But sure - believe whatever you want.

Could you point out where?

I mean, there's some oversimplification and some slight exagerations...but he's basically right.  You can run XP or Vista (why???!!) natively, but you don't get the same level of performance of a Wintel PC of equivalent price (I don't know about 2x difference.....).  You can run SOME Windows apps at close to native performance levels without installing a version of Windows, but others (games, especially) run like dogs.

You CAN upgrade the hardware in the Pro series, though.....just not the every day iMac's...right?

I'm certainly no Mac expert.  They won't do exactly what I need them to, so I pay a lot less attention to them...but I'm always willing to learn something from someone who knows more than me...so please, do tell.

[pilferk]

Ha, you guys are such dimwits. Arguing whether shit is better than crap. Come over to the dark side and play with Linux.

lol, because spending 4 hours finding WLAN drivers for a Linksys card is uber-cool.

If it takes you that long to find 'em....you're not looking in the right place.

And if you don't know where to look....Linux isn't your thing....and you probably don't need it.

[Atillla]

Yea, wow, you're really smart. 

Your Mom just shit you out didn't she? 

Everytime you get Stallowned, you try the girly mom jokes....nice move, they are funny too ...it proves you are a Mac user hiding in your mommy's basement editing pics for your own pleasure

[Howard2k]

I sit here laughing quietly to myself from my iMac.

....in your mother's basement sipping wine after sniffing it's cork so you can now do some arty farty stuff in photo editing.....

You just wish I was there with you.   

Sorry, not into that whole thing. 

For the record I still use Wintel boxes on a daily basis and have worked extensively with the Windows platform since 3.1.  I've even done programming on Windows 2.0.   I was using beta versions of Window95 when it was merely a shell update for Windows 3.11.     But it's nice to have s stable platform that just works.  And well.

Yes....yes it is.

But when you need stable AND Useable....then you're fucked.

See, I love Macs.  No, really...I do.

The problem is: They don't do anything (or, mostly anything) that I need them to do.  I can't use them to work from home without doing a LOT more work to make them actually sign into our VPN, access our software, and let me actually work.  I can't play most of the games I want to at an acceptable level of performance (or at all, in some cases).  There's a whole slew of things I just can't do with a Mac (or can't do well enough, quickly enough, or easily enough to matter).....stable or not.

I have a multipartitioned (BIG) drive on my PC: Windows XP (which is now remarkably stable....just as they sunset it) and Linux.  They get me everything I want to do, and then some.

Mac is nice if you want to do REALLY basic stuff....it's also nice if you're coding in a "portable" environment...but I can get all that PLUS the stuff I want to be able to do in one (well, two if you count Linux as a seperate platform on the same box)......agreeably more unstable...platform.    So I'll trade the stability for useability when it comes right down to it.

Agreed.  For home gaming I use an XBox, not my Mac.  No screwing around with drivers to load, no silly DirectX compatability issues.  And no matter how drunk I am I can still manage to turn on the XBox and run a game without having to mess around.    So for me - both Mac and PC are weak gaming platforms. 

I have a work laptop for doing work stuff.   I'm not under the illusion that it's made to replace my work PC.  It's not.  Just like the iPhone is not made to replace the Blackberry.   Different tools for different uses. 

[Howard2k]

Ha, you guys are such dimwits. Arguing whether shit is better than crap. Come over to the dark side and play with Linux.

lol, because spending 4 hours finding WLAN drivers for a Linksys card is uber-cool.

If it takes you that long to find 'em....you're not looking in the right place.

And if you don't know where to look....Linux isn't your thing....and you probably don't need it.

Admittedly this was 4 or so years ago, the last time I tried Linux.   And I searched and DID found some forums that gave me a way to download various files and compile the drivers myself.   No thanks.   And don't get me wrong, I can geek it up with the best of them.  I'm a former MCSE (back when it meant something) and have a bucket of other vendor certifications.  I just want my home computer to do what I want, when I want. 

[Howard2k]

All Mac users I know are or arty farty corksniffers who think they are from a special race because they don't know how to make XP run fast and stable

Yeah, it really sucks having something that does everything you want as soon as you get it rather than having to put in time and energy to polish a turd.

Install XP, tweak literally 15 minutes in the services and shut off certain options in configuartion..........done.

Fast, stable, clean.

Mac costs almost 2 times more for the same performance...you cannot play most games....you will have problems with certain hardware and software (don't even pretend)...the new breed of hackers are targeting Macs with their trojans....and if you want to make it faster, you can't upgrade the hardware, no you must buy a new one....so if I want to get a new exhaust for my car, I will buy a new car....yeah, great 

And yes, I had one, that's how I know it's an overrated piece of junk for everyday use...XP is more than enough if you got a higher IQ than 70.  Sure, if you are a professional designer or something use Mac, but for others it's just corksniffing and pretending you are better 

 

Oh.  My.  God.

Wrong on SO many levels. 

But sure - believe whatever you want.

Could you point out where?

I mean, there's some oversimplification and some slight exagerations...but he's basically right.  You can run XP or Vista (why???!!) natively, but you don't get the same level of performance of a Wintel PC of equivalent price (I don't know about 2x difference.....).  You can run SOME Windows apps at close to native performance levels without installing a version of Windows, but others (games, especially) run like dogs.

You CAN upgrade the hardware in the Pro series, though.....just not the every day iMac's...right?

I'm certainly no Mac expert.  They won't do exactly what I need them to, so I pay a lot less attention to them...but I'm always willing to learn something from someone who knows more than me...so please, do tell.

Price.  It's not 2 times the price.  People who say that often come up with some bland clone software-less computer for the sake of comparison.  Or they'll compare the high end Mac laptop with a bottom dollar Dell box.   Sure you CAN get cheaper, but the disparity between the two is nowhere near as huge as it was.

[pilferk]

Agreed.  For home gaming I use an XBox, not my Mac.  No screwing around with drivers to load, no silly DirectX compatability issues.  And no matter how drunk I am I can still manage to turn on the XBox and run a game without having to mess around.    So for me - both Mac and PC are weak gaming platforms. 

I have a work laptop for doing work stuff.   I'm not under the illusion that it's made to replace my work PC.  It's not.  Just like the iPhone is not made to replace the Blackberry.   Different tools for different uses. 

I game a LOT.  I have an Xbox 360, Wii, PS3, and my PC.  They all have their niches.  You can't really play a good MMO without a PC.....and I shudder at RTS games on any other platform.  And honestly, the amount of time I spend on drivers is almost non-existent.  With ATI and Nvidia basically streamling that process, it's basically a non-issue.  No where close to what it was back in the old days (think "Kings Quest") of gaming.

I don't want any more hardware (see above) around than I have already.  For me, the things the Mac is really good at....just aren't things that really matter to me.  The things that matter...the PC offers me the best across the board versatility and usefulness.  Granted, I trade some stability for that (and with XP, now...I'm not sure just how different the Mac and PC stability differences are...with Vista, it's much larger).  I'm OK with that trade off.

[pilferk]

Admittedly this was 4 or so years ago, the last time I tried Linux.   And I searched and DID found some forums that gave me a way to download various files and compile the drivers myself.   No thanks.   And don't get me wrong, I can geek it up with the best of them.  I'm a former MCSE (back when it meant something) and have a bucket of other vendor certifications.  I just want my home computer to do what I want, when I want. 

I don't use Linux for typical home stuff.  It's for programming (Perl, mostly...but, God help me, even some COBOL for an old friend who is just addicted to the POS software I built for him back in College) or DBA stuff (Oracle 9i and Sybase SQL).  In other words, "geeky" stuff.  So, if I have to do "geeky stuff" to make the platform do what I want..I'm OK with that. 

Again, that discussion is sort of outside the "Mac vs PC" discussion because there's nothing stopping someone from dual booting a mac with OSX and Linux.  Not sure on performance....

[pilferk]

Price.  It's not 2 times the price.  People who say that often come up with some bland clone software-less computer for the sake of comparison.  Or they'll compare the high end Mac laptop with a bottom dollar Dell box.   Sure you CAN get cheaper, but the disparity between the two is nowhere near as huge as it was.

OK, agreed.

The price difference is not what it was.

However, I would argue that there is a pretty large disparity in price to performance when running WINDOWS software.

Meaning this:

If I want to run Win XP and Windows appilcations MOSTLY (due to work, gaming, or whatever)...software that doesn't exist for the Mac platform, for example...to get the EXACT same level of performance I can spend far less by just buying a PC.  Maybe not 1/2.  But usually several hundred dollars less, certainly....at similar WINDOWS software performance levels.  Again, I'll trade the stability for the cost savings and additional versatility (for me).

If I'm a techie (and I am), I can also BUILD my own PC for a HECK of a lot less than I can get a similarly specced mac.  I typically spend around 600 to 700 on my PC, and walk away with a pretty high end rig.  I don't think that opportunity exists amongst most "techie" Mac users (though, admittedly, there are methods to get OSX on pretty standard "PC" configs, now).

Again, I don't dislike Macs.  Like you said: Different tools for different jobs.  I just don't do the jobs Mac seems to do best....and I suspect that might be true of a LARGE number of users.  Maybe it is just better "brainwashing" of the consumer, by MS and Intel (until recently) over the years.    While I suspect that's part of it, I also know that consumers typically are pretty good about, eventually, switching technologies when something REALLY taps into the market.  So far, though, the Mac hasn't done that (swayed the consumer).  I think that says it all.

[rds.06]

Whats with all the fighting in this thread!

Anyway I saw a cool interview with Bill Gates last week on the BBC where he talks about the future of Microsoft. He seems to think that the days of buying software are coming to an end because of this new "cloud" system that contains loads of software so you just hook up to that instead of buying software for a single PC. Im a bit vague on the details but it was interesting.   

[pilferk]

Whats with all the fighting in this thread!

Anyway I saw a cool interview with Bill Gates last week on the BBC where he talks about the future of Microsoft. He seems to think that the days of buying software are coming to an end because of this new "cloud" system that contains loads of software so you just hook up to that instead of buying software for a single PC. Im a bit vague on the details but it was interesting.   

I think the days of "hard" media are quickly coming to an end, at least on the supply side (consumers will likely always want hard media as archives...but we can transfer the media ourselves...we don't need the supplier/manufacturer to do it for us).  Digital distribution is becoming more and more the norm.  We're just starting to get to the point where the pipelines are big enough, and readily available enough, that "Joe Consumer" can jump on and DL software, video, and music without having inordinately long wait times.  And wireless tech has jumped up to a level where setting up a home wireless network is becoming "consumer level"....and fast enough to deliver media/software at acceptable rates for high level quality.

So, in that respect, I agree.

I've seen the "cloud" model, which is very subscription based.  I'm not sure it will work with software or not.  With media....I think it works very well.  With software, I'm just not sure. 

[Doc Emmett Brown]

Whats with all the fighting in this thread!

Anyway I saw a cool interview with Bill Gates last week on the BBC where he talks about the future of Microsoft. He seems to think that the days of buying software are coming to an end because of this new "cloud" system that contains loads of software so you just hook up to that instead of buying software for a single PC. Im a bit vague on the details but it was interesting.   

I think the days of "hard" media are quickly coming to an end, at least on the supply side (consumers will likely always want hard media as archives...but we can transfer the media ourselves...we don't need the supplier/manufacturer to do it for us).  Digital distribution is becoming more and more the norm.  We're just starting to get to the point where the pipelines are big enough, and readily available enough, that "Joe Consumer" can jump on and DL software, video, and music without having inordinately long wait times.  And wireless tech has jumped up to a level where setting up a home wireless network is becoming "consumer level"....and fast enough to deliver media/software at acceptable rates for high level quality.

So, in that respect, I agree.

I've seen the "cloud" model, which is very subscription based.  I'm not sure it will work with software or not.  With media....I think it works very well.  With software, I'm just not sure. 

What about something like Google Documents?  Does that qualify as both cloud software and cloud media? I find it convenient to edit proposals/cover letters and random spreadsheets online, no need for OpenOffice or MSWorks and USB flash drives. Admittedly I wouldnt use it for editing private documents, so there is still some need for the offline software, but increasingly less so.

I don't use Linux for typical home stuff.  It's for programming (Perl, mostly...but, God help me, even some COBOL for an old friend who is just addicted to the POS software I built for him back in College) or DBA stuff (Oracle 9i and Sybase SQL).  In other words, "geeky" stuff.  So, if I have to do "geeky stuff" to make the platform do what I want..I'm OK with that. 

yech...the only thing worse than writing Perl code for me is reading other people's. But it's the only language I know of with regular expressions built into the language, so it's not going to be uprooted anytime soon.  But whenever possible, I encourage my students to consider using Python, easier for them to write, easier for me to read.

I was reading some random blog and one of the points made was that the future of languages and OS's needs to be how well they run on a cluster of CPUs. I know Microsoft is actively pursuing research in this area, not sure about Apple.