ok, I've gotta' ask....

[estrangedpaul]

Question to Jarmo:

Is it ok to talk about Izzy's message (on his site about this topic) in the ex-members section?

I asked this before but I didn't get an answer so I just want to clarify the situation.

[jarmo]

While you're at it where did I ever say this "You say that since you bought concert tickets, you're a fan and you have the right to bash the band when you see fit."?

I just summed up your whole argument about how you're a fan because you bought tickets and you can criticize the band without even having the whole story.

That's the whole thing. Those of us who refuse to buy the crap spread by the media aren't the ones who are labeled "objective". Instead, it's those of you who "call things the way you see them" based on half truths, twisted words and bullshit, that are the objective fans.

I just don't get it.

Since when has the media dictated what can and can't be said on this site? Just becasue an article chooses to ignorantly word their article doesn't mean it's still not relevant to GNR fans. Everyone here knows the score with Steven, and know he's basically living for the day a reunion might occur, given he's been seen with Slash this week and there's been confirmation from Izzy it appears this time it's not BS.

You don't get it do you?

I don't want to be part of spreading more "reunion" rumors than what's already been done. Period.




/jarmo

[Jim Bob]

People who still expect the old lineup to reform are not supporting the current band. You want the new CD out? Well, start living in the present.

precisely the point.  right on.

How does this event have anything to do with this statement.  It's simply celebrating the 20th Anniversary of AFD [THEIR ALBUM, THEIR BAND BACK THEN THAT THEY CREATED and some of the original members may be there and have every right to celebrate this legendary album, that the current GNR plays every night on their tour.   This in no way takes anything away or is disrepectful to GNR now, could it cause people to get their hopes up that a full blown reunion could take place, sure it could but reunion talk has been around for years and years.    As I said before, it just shows how insecure fans are of the new band to have this rattle them so much or say it's a taboo subject even in the ex member section cuz it will stir up more reunion talk.   Not for nothing, then don't have a exmember section. 

I happen to be fans of both, I love the new band, I love the original members, but this is something that is THEIRS, like it or not and is apart of GNR history, without that you wouldn't have GNR now, hell you wouldn't have a setlist now. 

I was only agreeing with stolat that all these people whining for an original GnR reunion are giving the current band a nice kick in the nuts. 

sure these guys have every right to play together, but when the media is calling this 'GnR reunion minus Axl' its a little misleading.   GnR just got done playing in Japan.  And that is the band we are here to support.  Nothing against the ex-members, but as you probably know, I'm not really interested in anything but the band as it is now.   

you're damn straight i'm sick of the reunion talk.   I dont want to hear or see anymore of it.   People should either accept this band or fuck off.  Someone coming to a GnR board in this day and age who only cares about the original band reuniting is wasting their time.    And Steven Adler has done nothing but stir that reunion pot with his comments both last year and in the last week.   We don't need that, the band is already intact.   They haven't been working hard all these years for nothing.      Reunion talk is at an all time high on just about every other GnR board (for no reason other than Steven Adler's mouth) and its why I restrict myself to only this board for now.     I dont want any part of it.  I just want to be able to come here and talk about my favorite band with others who share my love for this band.

[J?]

People who still expect the old lineup to reform are not supporting the current band. You want the new CD out? Well, start living in the present.

precisely the point.? right on.

How does this event have anything to do with this statement.? It's simply celebrating the 20th Anniversary of AFD [THEIR ALBUM, THEIR BAND BACK THEN THAT THEY CREATED and some of the original members may be there and have every right to celebrate this legendary album, that the current GNR plays every night on their tour.? ?This in no way takes anything away or is disrepectful to GNR now, could it cause people to get their hopes up that a full blown reunion could take place, sure it could but reunion talk has been around for years and years.? ? As I said before, it just shows how insecure fans are of the new band to have this rattle them so much or say it's a taboo subject even in the ex member section cuz it will stir up more reunion talk.? ?Not for nothing, then don't have a exmember section.?

I happen to be fans of both, I love the new band, I love the original members, but this is something that is THEIRS, like it or not and is apart of GNR history, without that you wouldn't have GNR now, hell you wouldn't have a setlist now.?

I was only agreeing with stolat that all these people whining for an original GnR reunion are giving the current band a nice kick in the nuts.?

sure these guys have every right to play together, but when the media is calling this 'GnR reunion minus Axl' its a little misleading.? ?GnR just got done playing in Japan.? And that is the band we are here to support.? Nothing against the ex-members, but as you probably know, I'm not really interested in anything but the band as it is now.? ?

you're damn straight i'm sick of the reunion talk.? ?I dont want to hear or see anymore of it.? ?People should either accept this band or fuck off.? Someone coming to a GnR board in this day and age who only cares about the original band reuniting is wasting their time.? ? And Steven Adler has done nothing but stir that reunion pot with his comments both last year and in the last week.? ?We don't need that, the band is already intact.? ?They haven't been working hard all these years for nothing.? ? ? Reunion talk is at an all time high on just about every other GnR board (for no reason other than Steven Adler's mouth) and its why I restrict myself to only this board for now.? ? ?I dont want any part of it.? I just want to be able to come here and talk about my favorite band with others who share my love for this band.

I forward that.

The reunion talk is ridiculous.

[Tommie]

This whole argument would be void if the new band wasn't named Guns N' Roses. 

[Jim Bob]

This whole argument would be void if the new band wasn't named Guns N' Roses. 

but it is.. so?

[Mr. Redman]

the band as it stands today is better than the way it was.....

You've got that right!

[norway]

However, discussing the possibilty of this event occuring does not make you any less of a fan.

Of course not, and no one claims that either.

It's all about the fact that I'm not interested in causing confusion and getting people's hopes up.

It's that simple.
Not that I agree, if that is posted on Adlers official site, I don't mind having it posted here as is legit by the word.

IE, if x-members dissing Axl and it we have an x-gunner section...just have it it there. It's what they're doing/saying wether one like it or not.

But by all means,
We can be little biased/seletcive on GunsN'Roses-board so STFU

[CSS]

Does it always have to be like this? Does it really?

Accept situations as they are, there's nothing you can do either way. Nothing.

I don't really have an opinion regarding the actual subject, but what I do know is that it's Jarmos own choice - and I accept it, like it or not:

It's his fucking site! He runs it, and he pays for it so we all can be here to enjoy ourselves. It's been like "this" for years, and it most likely won't change, so why even try to change someone else's mind? It doesn't work, and that's just common sense.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't get the reunion talk, and I have zero interest in discussing something that hasn't been running properly since 1993.

We have Guns N' Roses as it is now, and that's how it should be. And it always will be. The old band doesn't exist! I don't want to come accross as stupid, but that's the truth. That's how it is.

We're all fans of the band, but there's only so much you can take:

Stop living in denial, and accept the "situation" as it is. You'll feel a lot better afterwards.

Thanks.

[estrangedpaul]

However, discussing the possibilty of this event occuring does not make you any less of a fan.

Of course not, and no one claims that either.

It's all about the fact that I'm not interested in causing confusion and getting people's hopes up.

It's that simple.
Not that I agree, if that is posted on Adlers official site, I don't mind having it posted here as is legit by the word.

IE, if x-members dissing Axl and it we have an x-gunner section...just have it it there. It's what they're doing/saying wether one like it or not.

But by all means,
We can be little biased/seletcive on GunsN'Roses-board so STFU

There's no confusion: Adler said three ex-members will be there and all indications point to at least some of them turning up. I don't know why everyone assumes Adler's making this up to sell tickets, as Jarmo indicated in this thread and on the main GnR board. Even Izzy has said he may well be there. Yet people keep insisting Adler is lying, trying to sell tickets, build people's hopes up and cause confusion, even though he has being backed up by a highly respected ex-member of the band. What exactly is there to be confused about?

If Slash, Duff and Izzy do turn up, will Jarmo apologise for calling him a liar? That's the issue, people assuming what is going to happen without knowing the facts. It's quite possible for the other guys to turn up, nobody here knows what's happening behind the scenes.

People get their hopes up about stuff all the time; if it doesn't happen big deal.

Still, I'm happy to see Izzy's update hasn't been deleted from the ex-members section. Credit for that.

[fuckin crazy]

The title of this thread should be changed to "Ad Hominem Attacks" and "Straw Man Arguments" ... no logic required.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

Does it always have to be like this? Does it really?

Accept situations as they are, there's nothing you can do either way. Nothing.

I don't really have an opinion regarding the actual subject, but what I do know is that it's Jarmos own choice - and I accept it, like it or not:

It's his fucking site! He runs it, and he pays for it so we all can be here to enjoy ourselves. It's been like "this" for years, and it most likely won't change, so why even try to change someone else's mind? It doesn't work, and that's just common sense.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I don't get the reunion talk, and I have zero interest in discussing something that hasn't been running properly since 1993.

We have Guns N' Roses as it is now, and that's how it should be. And it always will be. The old band doesn't exist! I don't want to come accross as stupid, but that's the truth. That's how it is.

We're all fans of the band, but there's only so much you can take:

Stop living in denial, and accept the "situation" as it is. You'll feel a lot better afterwards.

Thanks.

I have a newsflash and this is coming from someone who does support GNR as it is now, the old band will always exist as long as Axl keeps downplaying CD and always playing the majority of their shows with the music from a band that you say doesnt exist anymore.? ?Oh it does in spirit at every single show they play because the emphasis is on AFD NOT CD.

As soon as CD takes control of what GNR is now, the old band's presence will always be over shadowing them.? ?That doesn't make me not a supporter of GNR now, it's just a fact on how they are preceived by people who respect the past and want the future of GNR to MOVE FORWARD already.

[Krispy Kreme]

The title of this thread should be changed to "Ad Hominem Attacks" and "Straw Man Arguments" ... no logic required.

Amen to that.

[stolat]

Go back and read my posts from a few pages ago as I made this argument in the sense that whoever is responsible for promoting Guns isn't doing a good job. As you say, "how can they have a reunion when they just finished a tour?" That is a 100% accurate, but 9/10 people have no idea they just finished a tour because there is never any press/promo about the band outside of the guy who writes reviews for the GNR website.

They need to start screaming from the roof tops about what is and is not GNR beyond just a few website postings.

I point directly to management as the problem because it is not the band's job to make sure people are aware of them.?
 Adler is creating confusion because the GNR handlers haven't done a good enough job at educating the public as to what GNR is right now.

There is no where else for that problem to fall but into the lap of the marketing management team. If they were doing their job properly Steven wouldn't be getting any attention, because people would be responding to his comments in the way people are around here in terms of how can it be a GNR reunion show when they are out touring. We are educated about the Guns situation being here, so there is less confusion about things like this. The key is to take the message everyone gets here, and get it to more than just the people reading the fan boards. That is typically a marketing persons job.

What! so touring through Mexico, Australia, NZ, Japan and Europe (last year) in front of 1000's of people is not enough publicity?!!

[cyllan]

I have a newsflash and this is coming from someone who does support GNR as it is now, the old band will always exist as long as Axl keeps downplaying CD and always playing the majority of their shows with the music from a band that you say doesnt exist anymore.? ?Oh it does in spirit at every single show they play because the emphasis is on AFD NOT CD.

The 'old' GNR has a musical legacy that lives on in their recordings but doesn't exist physically anymore.? However, the 'spirit' of Guns N' Roses is an intangible that I feel means something different to each individual fan.? For me, it encompasses far more than just the music.

The GNR I saw play in Europe last year epitomised what I believe GNR to be and what it stands for in my eyes; it didn't matter whether I was watching them play a track off AFD, UYI or a new song, the essence of GNR lived and breathed on that stage.

At the MTV awards a couple of years ago, Axl spoke briefly about his struggle to resurrect Guns N' Roses and I feel that reviving this spirit is part of what he was referring to, and not simply the act of engaging musicians to operate under the GNR name.? Thanks to his tenacity he has achieved it - for this fan, at least - and that makes me happier than he'll probably ever know.

[DoubleTalkingJive]

I have a newsflash and this is coming from someone who does support GNR as it is now, the old band will always exist as long as Axl keeps downplaying CD and always playing the majority of their shows with the music from a band that you say doesnt exist anymore.? ?Oh it does in spirit at every single show they play because the emphasis is on AFD NOT CD.

The 'old' GNR has a musical legacy that lives on in their recordings but doesn't exist physically anymore.? However, the 'spirit' of Guns N' Roses is an intangible that I feel means something different to each individual fan.? For me, it encompasses far more than just the music.

The GNR I saw play in Europe last year epitomised what I believe GNR to be and what it stands for in my eyes; it didn't matter whether I was watching them play a track off AFD, UYI or a new song, the essence of GNR lived and breathed on that stage.

At the MTV awards a couple of years ago, Axl spoke briefly about his struggle to resurrect Guns N' Roses and I feel that reviving this spirit is part of what he was referring to, and not simply the act of engaging musicians to operate under the GNR name.? Thanks to his tenacity he has achieved it - for this fan, at least - and that makes me happier than he'll probably ever know.

My sentiments are the same, however, when a fan is challenged as what kind of fan they are because they still respect and love the old band that some of us in 1987 were blown away by, that is what feuls this kind of debate to pit the two against each other and when someone says that they are against something that hasn't been running properly since 1993, ofcourse the topic of CD is going to come up cuz lets face it, has that situation been running properly since it's been first introduced to the fans?   I have seen this band 3 times in concert and loved it every time.    But to say that you can't even talk about a 20 AFD anniversary because it's disrepect or it shows you aren't a fan well that's illogical.   

Izzy came out on stage and played most of their shows last year, is that disrespect to the new band that Axl and Izzy "reunited" on stage again.  NO, everyone loved it, it wasn't questioned at all.   So in essence it's the same thing that ex members of GNR are "reuniting" on stage for a small club show, however, if Axl approves then everyone who is against this kind of thing, will approve it right and not question the loyality of other fans that aren't against talking about the old band and the 20 Anniversary of AFD.  That's what drives alot of members crazy.

[jarmo]

If people just come here to go on and on about how great it was in 1987, then I will question what kind of fans they are and if they think they're on the right web site.

Easy as that.


I love the music Guns N' Roses has created in the past, but that doesn't mean I need to put down the current band.



/jarmo

[stolat]

People who still expect the old lineup to reform are not supporting the current band. You want the new CD out? Well, start living in the present.

precisely the point.? right on.

How does this event have anything to do with this statement.? It's simply celebrating the 20th Anniversary of AFD [THEIR ALBUM, THEIR BAND BACK THEN THAT THEY CREATED and some of the original members may be there and have every right to celebrate this legendary album, that the current GNR plays every night on their tour.? ?This in no way takes anything away or is disrepectful to GNR now, could it cause people to get their hopes up that a full blown reunion could take place, sure it could but reunion talk has been around for years and years.? ? As I said before, it just shows how insecure fans are of the new band to have this rattle them so much or say it's a taboo subject even in the ex member section cuz it will stir up more reunion talk.? ?Not for nothing, then don't have a exmember section.?

I happen to be fans of both, I love the new band, I love the original members, but this is something that is THEIRS, like it or not and is apart of GNR history, without that you wouldn't have GNR now, hell you wouldn't have a setlist now.?

Read my whole quote about how I think the so called reunion talk may be disssing the current band. It was in response to estranged Paul who couldn't see how the comments would affect the current line up. You may have to go back one page to read the whole quote.....

It has nothing to do with the current lineup. The idea that Slash, Izzy, Steven and Duff can't play a gig together here and there because it might hurt poor Frank Ferrer's feelings is absurd. They're professionals with a lot more respect for the ex-members than you do.

You obviously aren't a performer then. No wonder my point went way over your head.

Actually, I have played gigs in the past - I don't expect ex-members to never play together again after they leave my band. Coz that would be rediculous.

The current lineup have just had an amazing and highly successful tour in Japan. Why the hell would they be insecure about Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven playing together. It's nothing to do with them, whatsoever. Izzy played with all these guys last year, he wouldn't be speculating about doing this if he thought it would disrespect them.

You haven't actually explained why the current members of Guns N' Roses would care about this gig or why it would bother them.
If you honestly think that these 4 guys are doing this just to annoy the current members of GnR you need your head examined. They have every right to celebrate the anniversary of this album and have a lot of fun if they wish.

Haven't explained how the current members would care about this gig or why it would bother them!

Looks like you have some reading to do. Perhaps I should set some reading comprehension questions for you:

1) Name who is in Guns N' Roses
2) Did Slash and Duff walk out on Guns N' Roses in the mid 90's?
3) Has Steven called the gig a GN'R reunion?
4) Will Axl be putting out a new CD soon under the name Guns N' Roses?
5) What band are Slash and Duff in?
6) Did Slash sign away his rights to using the name Guns N' Roses?
7) Is Steven known for talking and stirring up bullshit?

[fuckin crazy]

I've only seen the band in '91. They played within 200km of me last year(kicks his fuckin ass)(then kicks it again)my goal in life life is to see Rocket Queen live. If I can achieve that, nothing else matters. I love the band the way they were, and I look foward to the band the way they are. AR was the closest thing to a God I have ever known ... and RP comes a very close second ... maybe even first ...

[stolat]

I've only seen the band in '91. They played within 200km of me last year(kicks his fuckin ass)(then kicks it again)my goal in life life is to see Rocket Queen live. If I can achieve that, nothing else matters. I love the band the way they were, and I look foward to the band the way they are. AR was the closest thing to a God I have ever known ... and RP comes a very close second ... maybe even first ...

AR = Axl Rose?
RP = ?