Damn illegals........

[SLCPUNK]

When did the ban on political threads get lifted?

Between this one and the Bushisms thread....I musta missed something?

Is it really OK to go back in the pool?

The water is warm..........



*************


Here is a question for everybody:

When Corporations can cross borders & outsource jobs with immunity, then why can't  people be able to do the same?

After all..........."Its a GLOBAL Economy" right? Are our leaders not telling us this?

Maybe its time we drop the "border"?

[Axls Locomotive]

When did the ban on political threads get lifted?

Between this one and the Bushisms thread....I musta missed something?

Is it really OK to go back in the pool?

The water is warm..........



*************


Here is a question for everybody:

When Corporations can cross borders & outsource jobs with immunity, then why can't  people be able to do the same?

After all..........."Its a GLOBAL Economy" right? Are our leaders not telling us this?

Maybe its time we drop the "border"?

borders? we dont neeed no steenking borders 

[leesixxrose]

The mexicans are already taking over California, Texas anyways with the border... There is some kind of underground movment they have now where they are saying that the land was their land before the borders were in place and they are going to take it back with sheer volume of ethnicity in the areas....   

[leesixxrose]

Now i aint against these chaps on some racial ground - but when half the people I run into dont speak a word of English, when houses prices are so high i'll probably only have enough money for one after I die, and when the roads are packed I have to ask the population be controlled

you said it best

[SLCPUNK]

Immigrants Demonstrate Economic Clout



By DAVE CARPENTER, AP Business Writer 2 hours, 54 minutes ago

Illegal immigrants made their point Monday: Without them, Americans would pay higher prices and a lot of work wouldn't get done.
ADVERTISEMENT

As nationwide demonstrations thinned the work force in businesses from meat-packing plants to construction sites to behind the counter at McDonald's, economists said there can be no dispute within the context of the contentious immigration issue that the group wields significant clout in the U.S. economy.

"If illegal immigration came to a standstill, it would disrupt the economy," said Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody's Economy.com. "It would lead to higher prices for many goods and services, and some things literally would not get done. It would be a major adjustment for our economy, for sure."

Another economist, Diane Swonk, said it would be an economic mistake to restrict entry and work rights when revising immigration policy.

"Given the obvious hardship of having illegal aliens flooding in, we also know they are critical to the functioning of the U.S. economy," said Swonk, chief economist at Chicago-based Mesirow Financial. "To be turning our backs on people who want to work is kind of silly in an environment where you've got tight labor markets and we're getting older and need younger people to work."

While the full impact of the one-day Day Without Immigrants boycott was hard to immediately gauge, it was palpable in some industries with a heavily Hispanic work force. On-the-job turnout was dramatically lower at some locales in the meat-packing, masonry, restaurant and landscaping businesses, and numerous firms closed for the day.

Mike Collins, who owns 500 acres of Vidalia onions in southeastern Georgia, was forced to shut down his packing shed and postpone his harvest when none of his 175 seasonal workers showed up.

"We need to be going wide-open this time of year to get these onions out of the field and we have nobody working today," he said. "Losing a day in this part of the season causes a tremendous amount of problems."

Tyson Foods Inc., the world's largest meat producer, shut five of nine beef plants and four of six pork plants in anticipation of widespread absences. Perdue Farms Inc., the nation's third-largest chicken producer, closed eight processing plants in seven states. Cargill Meat Solutions, the nation's second-largest beef processor, gave more than 15,000 workers the day off and closed plants in six states.

Gold Kist, another poultry producer, shuttered two North Carolina plants and operated its two Georgia facilities at reduced productivity after many employees failed to heed requests by the company's managers and CEO to show up despite the protests.

"We've tried to be open," said Wayne Lord, a vice president for the Atlanta-based company. "They were urged to come to work today because of our focus on satisfying our customer requirements."

Others publicly supported their employees' cause. Arthur Velasquez, founder and chief economic officer of Azteca Foods in Chicago, said he was "extremely proud" of his workers and noted that illegal immigrants keeps alive companies that need seasonal employees.

"It's a seasonal situation, so people need workers right then and there," he said. "And either that or they don't survive."

Many companies rediscovered what they already knew: They can't operate effectively without the extra help.

Work sites operated in the Washington, D.C., area by Beltsville, Md.-based Manganaro MidAtlantic, a concrete and masonry company where immigrants comprise up to 75 percent of the work force, were quiet Monday. John Livingston, a business developer for Manganaro, said his firm has not been able to fill its staffing needs without immigrants for more than a decade.

Low attendance also was the story at hotels in Indianapolis, construction sites in Miami and plant nurseries and landscapers across a wide area.

McDonald's Corp. said some of its employees participated in the rallies, prompting it to operate an unspecified number of its nearly 14,000 restaurants with limited crews, shortened hours or drive-thru service only. The Oak Brook, Ill.-based company did not provide further specifics but released a statement saying it strongly supports U.S. immigration reform.

Carl Tannenbaum, chief economist at LaSalle Bank in Chicago, said the boycott underscores that immigration is not only political issue but a big economic one, too.

"The American economy really relies to a large extent on a growing labor force," he said. "There's a certain replenishment to the labor force that immigrants provide, and I think we have to be careful about taking steps that would hinder that process."

[Surfrider]

I am staring down on the march from a downtown LA skyrise right now.

[SLCPUNK]

I am staring down on the march from a downtown LA skyrise right now.

How big

[Surfrider]

Actually that is not true.? They don't pay anywhere near what they receive.

LEGISLATURE 2006: Illegals contribute, study says
Policy group puts taxes paid at $252 million
Carlos Campos - Staff
Friday, January 20, 2006

A study released Thursday by an Atlanta policy group estimates that Georgia's illegal immigrants pay up to $252 million a year in taxes, disputing the notion that they are only a drain on taxpayers.

The report was issued by the Georgia Budget and Policy Institute as the Legislature prepares to consider legislation to deny state-funded services to illegal immigrants.

Opponents characterized the study as an attempt to legitimize illegal immigration that does not assess the costs.

Alan Essig, executive director of GBPI, said the group had no agenda."We're having a policy debate, and we're trying to throw something out there that's credible," Essig said.

Essig said the study concluded that "this population is paying taxes. If you hear the political rhetoric, you get the impression they're taking all this money and contributing nothing."

Essig said the study was not financed by any particular group or individual.

GBPI says it is a nonprofit, nonpartisan organization, though it is supported by and has received funding from groups advocating "progressive" social change and activism.

Sen. Chip Rogers (R-Woodstock), sponsor of Senate Bill 170, which would require state agencies to determine the legal status of Georgia residents receiving public benefits, criticized the study.

"I am aware of no other illegal activity that we will readily excuse because of suspect hypothetical profits for the government," Rogers said.

GBPI found that the average illegal immigrant family in Georgia pays $2,340 to $2,470 in state and local sales, income and property taxes combined. For those who did not file a federal income tax return, the contribution drops to about $1,800 a year.

The policy group used population figures from a Pew Hispanic Center study that estimated there are as many as 250,000 illegal immigrants living in Georgia, estimates from the same source that the average income for illegal immigrant families is $27,400 per year, and tax information from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.

The study takes into account that as little as 50 percent of illegal immigrants file federal income tax returns. It also notes that the majority of illegal immigrants are renters, but assumes that landlords pass on a percentage of their property tax costs through monthly rents.

The study does not attempt to examine the costs of illegal immigration, including K-12 public education and emergency medical care, which states are federally mandated to provide. The study does note, however, that Medicaid spending on Georgia illegal immigrants, shared with the federal government, totaled $111 million in fiscal 2005.

Phil Kent, spokesman for Americans for Immigration Control, said those costs cannot be ignored.

Kent said the GBPI study is "wildly at odds with other studies and figures showing the increasingly high cost of so-called cheap labor."

He pointed to a FAIR study that he said found Georgia spends $231 million a year educating illegal immigrants.

Advocates for illegal immigrants hailed the GBPI study.

"This study reiterates what we already know --- that undocumented immigrants are contributing substantially to the Georgia economy," said Tisha Tallman of the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.
   

I'll counter that with one city's expenditures on welfare.  This doesn't take into account schools, medical care, etc, etc


http://dailynews.com/news/ci_3751199
Welfare to kids of illegals at $276 million
BY TROY ANDERSON, Staff Writer

 
 
Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich said Tuesday that he will tell Congress that close to 100,000 children of illegal immigrants in the county collect $276 million in annual welfare benefits.
Antonovich, who is in Washington with the Board of Supervisors, will meet with congressional representatives and provide information about the impact of illegal immigration on county services.

Antonovich said 98,703 children of 57,458 undocumented parents received Cal-WORKS welfare checks in January, or a total of 156,161 recipients.

"If incorporated into a city, it would be the sixth-largest city in Los Angeles County," Antonovich said in a statement Tuesday. "While legal immigration is a positive influence on our culture and economy ... in public safety, health care and public social services, illegals cost county taxpayers nearly three quarters of a billion dollars a year."

Shirley Christensen, spokeswoman for the Department of Public Social Services, said her office provided the data to Antonovich.

"What I want to make clear is the children we aid are legally eligible to be aided," Christensen said. "They are the children of undocumented parents, but they themselves are not undocumented. They were born in this country."


 
come amid a debate in Congress and across the nation about illegal immigration.

No reliable studies have been conducted on the economic impact illegal immigrants have on California government budgets, according to a study by the Public Policy Institute of California.

In 2004, the Government Accountability Office concluded there was insufficient information to establish the costs to states of educating illegal immigrant children.

Some in the immigration debate say illegal immigrants are a drain on public coffers. Others say illegal immigrants pay more in taxes than they receive in services.

Illegal immigrants are not eligible for many government services, but they can use the public health care system and their U.S.-born children are eligible for welfare.
 

[Surfrider]

I am staring down on the march from a downtown LA skyrise right now.

How big

I can only see some of them from where my office is, but there are lots and lots of people.?

They better not shut down the freeway again.  That certainly won't make me sympathetic to their cause.

[SLCPUNK]

How many billions a day do they add to the economy?

How can we really gauge the drain vs what they contribute?

Does corporate welfare drain our country even more?

etc etc........

[Surfrider]

How many billions a day do they add to the economy?

How can we really gauge the drain vs what they contribute?

Does corporate welfare drain our country even more?

etc etc........

You would think if they were contributing more to taxes than they take the schools, hospitals etc wouldn't be as overcrowded and California wouldn't be in as much of a deficit as it is.


I am certainly not one to argue against immigration, but the way it is done now is ridiculous.? I understand we need the workers, but it can't be done this way.? These people are here illegally and should be deported.? If we need that many people to come here and work lets go to all of the poor countries and give those who have waited legally a chance.  I am sure millions of Mexicans, Chinese, Africans, South Americans would love the opportunity to come here as well.?

I agree with you on the corporate welfare.? But, certainly you can't justify one wrong with another wrong.

[SLCPUNK]

How many billions a day do they add to the economy?

How can we really gauge the drain vs what they contribute?

Does corporate welfare drain our country even more?

etc etc........

You would think if they were contributing more to taxes than they take the schools, hospitals etc wouldn't be as overcrowded and California wouldn't be in as much of a deficit as it is.


I am certainly not one to argue against immigration, but the way it is done now is ridiculous.  I understand we need the workers, but it can't be done this way.  These people are here illegally and should be deported.  If we need that many people to come here and work lets go to all of the poor countries and give those who have waited legally a chance.  I am sure millions of Mexicans, Chinese, Africans, South Americans would love the opportunity to come here as well. 

I agree with you on the corporate welfare.  But, certainly you can't justify one wrong with another wrong.

I am not trying to justify, don't get me wrong. But it appears that there are plenty of things that drain our system, not just illegal Mexican workers. It seems to me that race plays much more of a role in this then people would like to admit.

How many illegals are there? Is it even realistic to deport them at this point?

The reform is asking that they become felons if caught, is that really going to help? To turn them into felons? I mean...c'mon now.

Seems as if we have painted ourselves into a corner. I don't see a realistic solution presented. We allowed it to happen, and now we have a problem with it, but there is no solution.

[gilld1]

This is just another in the long line of distractions presented to us by our govt.  Let's see, abortion, gay marriage, revamping social security, the intelligent design debate and now illegal immigration.  In the meantime.......the planners are listing the viable targets in Iran!

[heinous]

And the remnant of Jacob shall be among the Gentiles in the midst of many people as a lion among the beasts of the forest, as a young lion among the flocks of sheep: who, if he go through, both treadeth down, and teareth in pieces, and none can deliver.

[SLCPUNK]

This is just another in the long line of distractions presented to us by our govt.  Let's see, abortion, gay marriage, revamping social security, the intelligent design debate and now illegal immigration.  In the meantime.......the planners are listing the viable targets in Iran!

You hit the nail on the head.

That and the other reasons I mentioned........they don't wanna "fix" it.

Yeeahhhh...what the fuck does THAT mean?

Mormon crap.........straight outa Utah. (Ala-Hole-E-War)

[heinous]

This is just another in the long line of distractions presented to us by our govt.? Let's see, abortion, gay marriage, revamping social security, the intelligent design debate and now illegal immigration.

Oh I can just see it....

A bunch of old, white power-barons in the proverbial smoke-filled room, sitting around plotting and scheming.? ?

Distract us from what exactly???

In the meantime.......the planners are listing the viable targets in Iran!

And that's a bad thing?

[gilld1]

Would you say that Americans are up to par on their knowledge of current world events and how our policies influence those around us?  Are Americans engaged in some of the social ills of the world i.e. Darfur?  the answer:  No, they are not but they don't want gays being married, evolution taught, etc. 

Yes, an Iranian excursion would be costly.  Everything they said about Iraq is true in Iran.  Maybe it was all just a simple spelling mistake!

[SLCPUNK]

Maybe it was all just a simple spelling mistake!

See the "Bushisms" thread for more details............

[Where is Hassan Nasrallah ?]

what about pedro ? pedro's cool ... let him stay.

[heinous]

Would you say that Americans are up to par on their knowledge of current world events and how our policies influence those around us?? Are Americans engaged in some of the social ills of the world i.e. Darfur?? the answer:? No, they are not but they don't want gays being married, evolution taught, etc.

?

What you're talking about is what gets media coverage and what doesn't.? Obviously the "social ills" (a total understatement) in Darfur has not received the international attention it has deserved for so long.

But that fact has nothing to do with what others consider to be other "social ills."? Amercians aren't as stupid as you might like to think.? They can focus on more than one thing at a time.? I believe they are as "up to par" as anybody, despite what the average psuedo-intellectual on the internet might say.? They're busy going to work, raising families, and watch the 6 o' clock news.? The fact that Darfur hasn't received the international attention it deserves isn't their fault.? Nor is it their fault that a portion of a certain minority group chose to try and change what defines marriage, etc.

Yes, an Iranian excursion would be costly.? Everything they said about Iraq is true in Iran.? Maybe it was all just a simple spelling mistake!

You're right, everything they said about Iraq is true in Iran.

Which is why not doing anything could prove more costly....