Should Mahmoud Ahmadinejad be allowed to vist ground zero in NYC?

[GeraldFord]

I say why not?

Barring him from visiting the site is beyond retarded. He is the elected head-of-state of a sovereign nation and had nothing to do with 911.

Fucking dumb.

[SLCPUNK]

I heard he was going to use a child as a sun visor.

[Axl4Prez2004]

The last time I checked, this is still a free country.  Of course he should be allowed to visit and speak.  If he makes a fool of himself, so be it.   
 

[DevilHatesALoser]

The man is directly responsible for the deaths of American Soldiers.  He is supplying weapons to Iraq and is a state sponsor of terrorism.  The man chants death to the US and calls the holocaust a myth.  He won't be paying tribute to the 3000 killed on 9/11, but the 19 terrorist.  God willing, someone kills this fuck, praise be to Allah

[The Dog]

Absolutely not.  here is why:

Three new domestically manufactured warplanes streaked over the capital during the parade marking the 27th anniversary of the Iraqi invasion of Iran, which sparked a 1980-88 war that killed hundreds of thousands of people. The parade also featured the Ghadr missile, which has a range of 1,120 miles, capable of reaching Israel.

Some of the missile trucks were painted with the slogans "Down with the U.S." and "Down with Israel." The parade also featured unmanned aerial surveillance drones, torpedoes, and tanks.

Fuck this guy.

[Axl4Prez2004]

(in reference to Dim's comment above Butters) Thank you Walter.  Exactly my point.  See how easy it is for a person to make an ass of himself?

"The man chants death to the US and calls the holocaust a myth."

Our president invaded a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11.  Our president thinks evolution is a "myth."  Our president would be hard-pressed to spell evolution.  Our president believes you are going to hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior. 

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if say, for example, Iran was hit with a 9-11 style attack and thousands died.  Then a year or 2 later, despite the fact none of the bombers were from Mexico, Iran invades and occupies Mexico.  I could go on and on with this, but even you Walter must understand where I'm going with that.  Do you think Americans might be thinking, "Down with Iran?" 

I say fuck Ahmedinejad as well, but let him speak.  I'm not a "turn the other cheek" pansy-ass, but at least let the man speak.  Maybe people are afraid he'll say something nice...we couldn't have that now could we? 
 

[DevilHatesALoser]

(in reference to Dim's comment above Butters) Thank you Walter.? Exactly my point.? See how easy it is for a person to make an ass of himself?

"The man chants death to the US and calls the holocaust a myth."

Our president invaded a nation that had nothing to do with 9/11.? Our president thinks evolution is a "myth."? Our president would be hard-pressed to spell evolution.? Our president believes you are going to hell if you don't accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior.?

Hmmm, I wonder what would happen if say, for example, Iran was hit with a 9-11 style attack and thousands died.? Then a year or 2 later, despite the fact none of the bombers were from Mexico, Iran invades and occupies Mexico.? I could go on and on with this, but even you Walter must understand where I'm going with that.? Do you think Americans might be thinking, "Down with Iran?"?

I say fuck Ahmedinejad as well, but let him speak.? I'm not a "turn the other cheek" pansy-ass, but at least let the man speak.? Maybe people are afraid he'll say something nice...we couldn't have that now could we??
?

Your argument is so weak, I expected better from you.  Ahmedinejad tortures his own people, he silences them.  The man has no concept of human rights.  His foreign policy is to bring chaos to the world.  He has said all of this.  You and other liberal morons want to believe Bush is a religious fanatic, but have no solid proof.  So what if Bush thinks those who fail to accept Christ will burn in hell?  That is a tenet of Christianity, every single Christian holds that belief.  Bush isn't calling for the annihilation of everyone who doesn't hold his beliefs, Ahmedinejad is.  Quit trying to be politically correct and look at the issue objectively.

[GeraldFord]

You and other liberal morons want to believe Bush is a religious fanatic, but have no solid proof.

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Published: 07 October 2005

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.

He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.

"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.

The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

The same sense of mission permeated his speech at the National Endowment of Democracy yesterday. Its main news was Mr Bush's claim that Western security services had thwarted 10 planned attacks by al-Qa'ida since 11 September 2001, three of them against mainland US.

More striking though was his unrelenting portrayal of radical Islam as a global menace, which only the forces of freedom - led by the US - could repel. It was delivered at a moment when Mr Bush's domestic approval ratings are at their lowest ebb, in large part because of the war in Iraq, in which 1,950 US troops have died, with no end in sight.

It came amid continuing violence on the ground, nine days before the critical referendum on the new constitution that offers perhaps the last chance of securing a unitary and democratic Iraq. "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region" and set up a radical empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia, he said.

The insurgents' aim was to "enslave whole nations and intimidate the world". He portrayed Islamic radicals as a single global movement, from the Middle East to Chechnya and Bali and the jungles of the Philippines.

He rejected claims that the US military presence in Iraq was fuelling terrorism: 11 September 2001 occurred long before American troops set foot in Iraq - and Russia's opposition to the invasion did not stop terrorists carrying out the Beslan atrocity in which 300 children died.

Mr Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting radical groups. They "have a long history of collaboration with terrorists and they deserve no patience". The US, he warned, "makes no distinction between those who commit acts of terror and those who support and harbour them because they're equally as guilty of murder".

"Wars are not won without sacrifice and this war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," Mr Bush declared. But progress was being made in Iraq, and, he proclaimed: "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article317805.ece

[Axl4Prez2004]

  Walter O' Dim, I agree with you.  Ahmedhinejad is a jerk.  He is wrong on the holocaust.  He is wrong on his desire for the destruction of Israel.  He is not what I consider a good man.  That said, show this man what's so great about our nation.  Let him speak.  What on earth could he say at ground zero that could cause us any harm?  Please, give me an example of what he would probably say that would be disastrous for the United States.

  You don't think there is proof our "born again" president is a religious fanatic?  Did you read the post above this one?

  ...and no, every "Christian" does not believe non-believers are going to hell.  The fanatics do, but the sane and rational ones do not.  The same goes for Muslims. 

  Also, you told me to stop trying to be politically correct.  Is that something I do regularly around here?  I've put forth my opinions on things like automatic sterilization for violent sex criminals, automatic life sentences in real prisons with no parole, no tv, no visitation, no letters, no books, etc.  for violent criminals, I could go on but I won't. 

Okay, actually I will.  I was watching a 20/20 program last night when a story on a chick who was raped came on the tv. 
She found out a couple months later she had been impregnated by this monster.  She decided to keep the baby.  Good for her, it's not what I would do, but that's her choice.  The thing that pisses me off is that everybody's so happy about her "doing the right thing."  Bullshit.  This chick should be arrested.  She knew of a violent sex criminal on the loose and did nothing to stop him.  I'll bet ya this fucker raped some more women after this dumb chick who "did the right thing."  Yeah, right. 

Back on topic.  I repeat the question.  What could he say that would make your life or my life any worse?   

[DevilHatesALoser]

You and other liberal morons want to believe Bush is a religious fanatic, but have no solid proof.

Bush: God told me to invade Iraq

President 'revealed reasons for war in private meeting'
By Rupert Cornwell in Washington
Published: 07 October 2005

President George Bush has claimed he was told by God to invade Iraq and attack Osama bin Laden's stronghold of Afghanistan as part of a divine mission to bring peace to the Middle East, security for Israel, and a state for the Palestinians.

The President made the assertion during his first meeting with Palestinian leaders in June 2003, according to a BBC series which will be broadcast this month.

The revelation comes after Mr Bush launched an impassioned attack yesterday in Washington on Islamic militants, likening their ideology to that of Communism, and accusing them of seeking to "enslave whole nations" and set up a radical Islamic empire "that spans from Spain to Indonesia". In the programmeElusive Peace: Israel and the Arabs, which starts on Monday, the former Palestinian foreign minister Nabil Shaath says Mr Bush told him and Mahmoud Abbas, former prime minister and now Palestinian President: "I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan.' And I did, and then God would tell me, 'George go and end the tyranny in Iraq,' and I did."

And "now again", Mr Bush is quoted as telling the two, "I feel God's words coming to me: 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East.' And by God, I'm gonna do it."

Mr Abbas remembers how the US President told him he had a "moral and religious obligation" to act. The White House has refused to comment on what it terms a private conversation. But the BBC account is anything but implausible, given how throughout his presidency Mr Bush, a born-again Christian, has never hidden the importance of his faith.

From the outset he has couched the "global war on terror" in quasi-religious terms, as a struggle between good and evil. Al-Qa'ida terrorists are routinely described as evil-doers. For Mr Bush, the invasion of Iraq has always been part of the struggle against terrorism, and he appears to see himself as the executor of the divine will.

He told Bob Woodward - whose 2004 book, Plan of Attack, is the definitive account of the administration's road to war in Iraq - that after giving the order to invade in March 2003, he walked in the White House garden, praying "that our troops be safe, be protected by the Almighty". As he went into this critical period, he told Mr Woodward, "I was praying for strength to do the Lord's will.

"I'm surely not going to justify war based upon God. Understand that. Nevertheless, in my case, I pray that I will be as good a messenger of His will as possible. And then of course, I pray for forgiveness."

Another telling sign of Mr Bush's religion was his answer to Mr Woodward's question on whether he had asked his father - the former president who refused to launch a full-scale invasion of Iraq after driving Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991 - for advice on what to do.

The current President replied that his earthly father was "the wrong father to appeal to for advice ... there is a higher father that I appeal to".

The same sense of mission permeated his speech at the National Endowment of Democracy yesterday. Its main news was Mr Bush's claim that Western security services had thwarted 10 planned attacks by al-Qa'ida since 11 September 2001, three of them against mainland US.

More striking though was his unrelenting portrayal of radical Islam as a global menace, which only the forces of freedom - led by the US - could repel. It was delivered at a moment when Mr Bush's domestic approval ratings are at their lowest ebb, in large part because of the war in Iraq, in which 1,950 US troops have died, with no end in sight.

It came amid continuing violence on the ground, nine days before the critical referendum on the new constitution that offers perhaps the last chance of securing a unitary and democratic Iraq. "The militants believe that controlling one country will rally the Muslim masses, enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region" and set up a radical empire stretching from Spain to Indonesia, he said.

The insurgents' aim was to "enslave whole nations and intimidate the world". He portrayed Islamic radicals as a single global movement, from the Middle East to Chechnya and Bali and the jungles of the Philippines.

He rejected claims that the US military presence in Iraq was fuelling terrorism: 11 September 2001 occurred long before American troops set foot in Iraq - and Russia's opposition to the invasion did not stop terrorists carrying out the Beslan atrocity in which 300 children died.

Mr Bush also accused Syria and Iran of supporting radical groups. They "have a long history of collaboration with terrorists and they deserve no patience". The US, he warned, "makes no distinction between those who commit acts of terror and those who support and harbour them because they're equally as guilty of murder".

"Wars are not won without sacrifice and this war will require more sacrifice, more time and more resolve," Mr Bush declared. But progress was being made in Iraq, and, he proclaimed: "We will keep our nerve and we will win that victory."

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/article317805.ece

Heard it all before, it was hearsay that was debunked.  It was proven it was bullshit.

[DevilHatesALoser]

? Walter O' Dim, I agree with you.? Ahmedhinejad is a jerk.? He is wrong on the holocaust.? He is wrong on his desire for the destruction of Israel.? He is not what I consider a good man.? That said, show this man what's so great about our nation.? Let him speak.? What on earth could he say at ground zero that could cause us any harm?? Please, give me an example of what he would probably say that would be disastrous for the United States.

? You don't think there is proof our "born again" president is a religious fanatic?? Did you read the post above this one?

? ...and no, every "Christian" does not believe non-believers are going to hell.? The fanatics do, but the sane and rational ones do not.? The same goes for Muslims.?

? Also, you told me to stop trying to be politically correct.? Is that something I do regularly around here?? I've put forth my opinions on things like automatic sterilization for violent sex criminals, automatic life sentences in real prisons with no parole, no tv, no visitation, no letters, no books, etc.? for violent criminals, I could go on but I won't.?

Okay, actually I will.? I was watching a 20/20 program last night when a story on a chick who was raped came on the tv.?
She found out a couple months later she had been impregnated by this monster.? She decided to keep the baby.? Good for her, it's not what I would do, but that's her choice.? The thing that pisses me off is that everybody's so happy about her "doing the right thing."? Bullshit.? This chick should be arrested.? She knew of a violent sex criminal on the loose and did nothing to stop him.? I'll bet ya this fucker raped some more women after this dumb chick who "did the right thing."? Yeah, right.?

Back on topic.? I repeat the question.? What could he say that would make your life or my life any worse?? ?

Him being allowed to speak at groudn zero will impower our enemies.  This man is viewed as a hero to radical muslims worldwide.  For him to pay homage to terrorist at ground zero is wrong.  While I believe he should be allowed to speak at the UN, he has no business roaming around America.  I'm sorry, Revelations teaches that those who don't accept Chirst go to hell.  To be a Christian you have to accept that Christ was born through immaculate conception, crucified and ressurected.  You have to believe the only way to salvation is through him.  That is what is taught.  I personally don't believe that, but I don't call myself a Christian either.  You can argue every other aspect of morality, but you have to accept Christ to go to heaven.

That bullshit article Richard posted has been debunked many times, it's not valid.  This is the kind of shit that really gets under my skin, some 3rd person bullshit is put in a foreign paper and you people salivate over it because it fits your preconceived notion.  The article was debunked, end of story, quit using it because you look like an idiot - ecspecially someone supposedly in a graduate program using it. 

Bush isn't chanting death to the middle east or advocating the genocide of people.  This man is and if he could would be no different than Hitler.  If it were discovered that Hitler really has been hiding in Brazil (ignore the impossibility of age) and wanted to goto the Holocaust museum, would you be okay with that?  We will be at war with Ahmedinejad, everybody knows that.  I don't want the bastard using ground zero as a photo op.

[mrlee]

I heard he was going to use a child as a sun visor.

lmao

brilliant, just brilliant, totally.

[DevilHatesALoser]

No it's really insulting and shows what a loser he is.  Anyone who can make a joke out of the current situation really is fucking out there.  Didn't SLC post some video in outrage when Bush made a joke about not finding WMDs in Iraq.  Once again, a fuckin hypocrite and total loser.

[Axl4Prez2004]

  Walter, seriously man, there are millions of "Christians" who interpret the words in different ways.  We could argue about that for hours, but I just wanted to let you know that not all Christians fall into the "radical" "Bush-like" "you're either with us or against us," Tommy Stinson-like "Get on board or fuck off"  category.  Many Catholics believe in good works getting you closer to heaven where as the fundamentalists could care less if a person rapes a bus-load of nuns as long as he accepts j.c. as his lord and savior.

  Damn, let Ahmedhinejad try talking smack at Ground Zero.  What better excuse to get the American people to rally behind you in another war?

  Next point, Walter, wasn't it 1972 when Nixon visited China?  Hmm, if my memory is correct, wasn't the Chinese military aiding our enemy, the North Vietnamese?  Using your logic, weren't the Chinese our enemies at the time?  Wasn't Mr. Nixon emboldening our enemies?  Come off this shit.  We are not at war with Iran. 

  My last point.  You haven't answered my question in regards to what you think Ahmedinejad would say at ground zero.  I think you've got some brains, so I know you don't think he'd start praising the 9/11 hijackers at ground zero...so what do you think he'd really say?  And again, I ask you, how could it hurt you, me, or anybody else in the world? 

[DevilHatesALoser]

There's nothing he's going to say that would change anyone's mind.  It's the principle behind it all.  This man supports the same people the made the attack happen.  Allowing him to go there is a symbolic victory.  There will be pictures of him at ground zero all over Islamic TV and news.  I'd be willing to bet Bin Laden even will address it in his next speech.  I don't want to give these bastards the time of day.  Ground zero is sacred to most people and to allow someone who approves of the act to be present does a dishonor to those who died that day and all those who have died after it.  I've stood at ground zero several times, and to think this piece of shit will be granted permission to do the same is outrageous to me.

[fuckin crazy]

The people who brought the towers down were Sunni, Persians(Ahmadinejad) are Shi'a. Those two groups have been at war for the better part of 1300 years. People from all different nationalities died there. I say let him show his condolences. Propaganda can be played two ways.

[Axl4Prez2004]

Whaaaaaat???  There are different kinds of Muslims?  Don't sweat it Walter, Bush just a week or 2 ahead of the invasion of Iraq didn't know it either.

"There's nothing he's going to say that would change anyone's mind."  Whose minds are you afraid he'll change?  He'll probably thank the US government for opening the door to Iranian influence in a nation whose majority is Shi'a. 

[DevilHatesALoser]

There is more than two kinds of Muslims.  That has nothing to do with this issue.  Radical Islam preaches the annihiliation of all infidels, specifically the west and Israel.  Ahmadinejad is preaching those values.  They have common ground.  Baptist don't agree with Presbyterians, Catholic and Protestants don't agree - look at Ireland and England.  What is your point?  But they both have common ground and if there was a religious war in the name of Christianity being led (which there is not) people of all denominations of Christianity would join. 

Here is what you fail to grasp.  A nation led on true Christian principle would be a peaceful nation.  Christianity is the true religion of peace.  We are seeing nations led on true Islam and they are anything but peaceful.  Hitler said that Islam was the religion most suited for his imperialistic desires.  He also said one is either German or Christian, you can not be both. 

So let's quit with the bullshit comparisons.

[Axl4Prez2004]

I get it now.  Christianity is better than Islam.  It's finally sunk in. 

"Christianity is the true religion of peace.... " and if you don't believe it, you will burn in eternal hellfire. 

[Booker Floyd]

On what legal grounds could he be stopped?