Tommy on q1043 (was: Chinese democracy news on radio?)

[usurper]

Hopefully they will release a single, or at least the cancelled Las Vegas dvd

[estranged.1098]

What are you talking about??? What's going in GNR at the moment that can do us happy. What??? And please don't talk about publishing deal beecause it has nothing to do with CD[1] release or Tommy - because he knows nothing .

1) Merck disagrees with you, I will go with his words thank you very much.

2) Tommy knows nothing, huh? That's something only a person who thinks THEY know what's going on would say, but guess what... YOU don't know.

[ppbebe]

2) Tommy knows nothing, huh? That's something only a person who thinks THEY know what's going on would say, but guess what... YOU don't know.

How many ppl here owe Tommy and Dizzy big apologies when Time starts to tell? Let?s count up noses.

I just think that he is intentionally vague and all over the board with his comments for a reason....ie he cannot say anything regarding the release date, tracklisting etc. It could be just a game he is playing. I don't know and don't care anymore. What I do care about in his comments are his opinions on the material. He seems so excited about the record and how good it is. Brain seemed excited as well.

That's how I see it too. It must be hard to give the message under such a condition but Tommy is seeing it through.

[echrisl]

2) Tommy knows nothing, huh? That's something only a person who thinks THEY know what's going on would say, but guess what... YOU don't know.

How many ppl here owe Tommy and Dizzy big apologies when Time starts to tell? Let?s count up noses.

If you want to count owed apologies, count how many times Tommy/Dizzy has said the album will be out already that has been followed by time telling ...

[ccorn69]

I had been feeling down a bit lately and hadn't check the site lately but when i found an article of the tommy  interview on my guitar tabs website i felt so happy... I think this is gonna finnaly be it... Im gonna go drink and celebrate... 

[February]

If Tommy belives that the record will be out this year so i'm I, and until proven wrong if he says it will be a kick ass album i'll trust him, more him that fans like me who know exactly what i do S***, EXCEPT WHAT CAN BE MADE OUT OF WHAT BAND MEMBERS SAY. If nothing happens this year or if I don't like the album i'll keep waiting ....hell things can allways go wrong that does not mean we can't hope for better, that's life.
In 95 everybody told me that gnr was over and none of the members would do something significant on their own.....i kept waiting with my hopes high...RIGHT NOW FOR ME FEBRUARY 2005 IS IT 

[Tied-Up]

OK, since there was a lot of talking about me in my absence, I'm going to go on a bit... try to bear with me.

Hmmm ok Tied-Up, apparently you do not understand what I was trying to say.  As a consumer what other way can I show my displeasure with a service?  Last time I checked Axl doesnt have a suggestions box laying around.  I am sure Axl will not suffer because of me but it is quite clear that you have never taken a business class in your life.  The best way to hurt some one whose service you are not pleased with is through their wallet.  I am sure Axl won't care but his record company will. 

First of all, I have taken several business classes, as an art student, they weren't my favorite classes, but I did take them.  I do understand and appreciate the art of boycott against a product, it's one I have participated in several times before.  The point I was trying to make, and apparently failed to do so is this:

Chinese Democracy, if/when it should come out is going to be a phenomenal success.  With or without your purchase.  How can I be so confident about that? Because if nothing else, GnR has the masses curiosity on their side.  People are going to buy this for the fact that it is the first from GnR (at least, full-length studio effort wise) in a very long time.  So, your singular boycott will mean relatively nothing to Axl, GnR and Sanctuary. 

That doesn't mean that you don't have the right to boycott it as you choose.  Go for it. 

As for me not 'seeing the whole picture' well please tell me what it is I dont see.  Obviously it sounds like you 'see it all' and can explain to me what my little problem is.  Again, until I hear otherwise what am I to believe?  I know there is supposedly another story behind it.  It has still not been told.  All we really know is that Axl did not make it for the first show of his tour (and I am sure you were so understanding when that happened) and he missed the Philly show.  Given his past history are you seriously going to believe that he had nothing to do with it? 

Again, a serious misunderstanding from my post on your part.  I don't know the whole picture either, but I give the people involved the benefit of the doubt on it.  I don't think that Axl is completely to blame for the St. Louis riot either.  I think that there were a lot of other problems that even after viewing the concert on DVD, I can't honestly say that I have knowledge of, but I don't blame Axl completely for that riot.  Things happen, and unless you are directly involved in the situation, you don't know the whole story.  That's my point.  You don't know what caused these problems.  Tommy suggested in the interview that there were problems with the promotor of that tour... and I'm inclined to accept that as an explaination, why?  Because I have seen other situations where Clear Channel has caused a great deal of grief... they are very money hungry, and care nothing about the artists they promote, or the people who buy the tickets.  All they care about is the almighty green.

My point is that you've already condemned Axl and GnR for the tour issues without knowing everything that's gone on.  I don't know everything that's gone on either, which is why I'm not quick to judge the situation.

I do not care who Axl is doing it for.  If he was truly doing it for himself he would have never gone on tour.  The fact of the matter is that he wanted to share his music and that is why he went on tour.  The album wasnt even done yet.  See, in a business you have two people.  The supplier and the consumer.  He was supplying the music for ME and others, and we were paying to listen to it.  Axl can do it for himself all he wants, but even he knows if people dont fill the seats, buy the cd, or buy his (shitty) merchandise then he will not be able to stay in that mansion he has much longer. 

Haha and I love your comments about being an artist crack me up.  EVERYBODY wants their music to be listened to by the masses, I dont care what you say.  As an artist you want as many people to hear/see your work as possible.  I am sure you are more than happy playing at your local club for a few of your friends as you would playing at MSG for thousands of people who admire your art.  As an artist starting out that is one of your goals, and for you to deny that is just ridiculous. 

A true artist (I'm not a musician, btw) ... doesn't do it for the money or the masses.  An artist that does it for the money or the masses is doing it for the wrong reason.  I don't know if you can understand this, as it is a concept that tends to escape those superior, business minded type people who possess the intelligence that escapes us dumb artists.  We have something to say, and it's not necessarily something we need to say to the rest of the world.  If the rest of the world likes it, or digs it, or even gets it, that's really cool.  It gets even better when they actually buy our stuff.  But that's not why we do it.

That doesn't mean that you vastly more rational and astute minds don't have something to say, but you are too busy letting your wallets do the talking for you.  (BTW -- I'm not saying that's a bad thing)

[Tied-Up]

And for your comments about him not playing 'just to piss me off' it has become clear that you are an immature little baby who makes baseless arguments with nothing to back them up. ?It is amazing just how ridiculous some of you are. ?Its been said so many times, but I think some of you would take drink the Kool Aid if Axl told you to. ?Plus I didnt have 3rd row for Philly, but I guess that was something else you read between the lines oh intelligent one!

My comments about Axl not playing just to piss you off were meant to be satirical commentary. ?Sorry if my sarcasm escaped you. ?Next time, I will be sure to note my sarcasm properly so that you can easily detect it.

BTW ... as a mother of two, I can say that immature little babies are not capable of understanding, appreciating, or expressing sarcasm.

As for the artist argument, while I understand what you are saying, Tied-Up's explanation is BS. ?He has that an artist creates for himself. ?My argument is that people DO create art to show to the masses. ?If they are that serious about it then they will do it. ?They want people to see what they created and they want to share it with people. ?I didnt talk about the financial benefits of doing it. ?Only that it is a goal of any artist to get their art shown to the masses. ?Is that sometimes fueled by the dream of financial success. ?Of course it is. ?But what Tied-Up said was that they only do it for themselves. ?Which my response to him then, is why do you go out and play shows? ?Why do you sell shirts and CD's? ?Obviously if his band hasnt reached this status yet then it doesnt apply to him, but I guarantee even if they are not in this position yet, they are striving for it. ?That "acceptance" he mentions in his post is a lot more than he says it is no matter what he says.

I'm female, but I suppose my manhood is something you chose to read between the lines, oh clever quick-wit!

(In other words, we are both guilty of making a false assumption.)

Yes... there are some people that do create for the masses. ?These are called pop-artists and/or commercial artists. ?They are doing it for the bucks. ?Some are quite successful at it. ?Good for them! ?

Then there are some artist... ie: ?true artists ... that create for themselves, because they have something within them that must be expressed. ?They use their mediums to make a statement. ?And, very often those statements go unappreciated by the masses. ?Axl once said of his song "one in a million" that it's something that a lot of people can't be trusted with, and he did say at one point that he was to take that song off of future presses of Lies. ?My most recent trip to the record store, I saw that it was still on there, so, either that copy has been on the shelves a mighty long time, or the plans have since been changed.

Many artistic statements are something that people cannot be trusted with, because they will be misunderstood. ?Another case and point would be one of my favorite writers, Mark Twain, whose poem "The War Prayer" wasn't to be released to the public until after his death. ? The statement made in that work was so poignant that Mr. Twain didn't want to feel compelled to spend his life explaining, so he chose to release it after his death.

He created that statement... not to please anyone but himself.

This is the essence of true art. ?

Axl and more importantly the record company will just have to accept the fact that I am getting the value of not only the lost money in convenience fees which I ate for 4 people (thanks ticketmaster!) but also the value of my time that I spent coordinating travel and being the one to buy the tickets for that show. ?

?

Again, my statement about Axl not performing being just to piss you off... really fits here dude. ?Get over yourself already.

killing vector, I really do understand what you are saying. ?But guess what? ?Nobody has told us anything. ?Sorry but I am not going to buy into this he said she said game that GNR and Clear Channel are playing. ?Something that I CANNOT ignore is Axl's history. ?This guy has pulled no shows/walk offs/temper tantrums before. ?It may very well have been Clear Channels fault, but come on... two times in half of a tour is ridiculous. ?So while I hate to assume he is guilty until proven innocent that is the stance I am going to take. ?And yes, I am blaming Axl and not the rest of the band. ?

 

I'm inclined to think that GNR is better off without you buying any of their product. ?You seem to assume that they owe you something beyond the sale.

For every no show & walk off, there have been many more shows that have been played. ? Does that not get viewed in your distorted view of history? ?

vector, what baffles me is why you and everyone else are so upset that I am doing this. ?Does it really bother you that much I do not want to support Axl Rose financially anymore? ?I have said this to people a few years ago on different boards and people say the same thing (I will buy a copy for you, etc.). ?It just blows my mind. ?If your money is going to be used to cover the fact that I am not going to purchase his album then I feel sorry for you. ?You should save your money and do something else with it. ?As for the comment about the tour, I know you won't be buying an extra seat, and even if you do you will scalp it so I will call your bluff there. ?

I hate to go on a tirade, but it is fans like you that let this BS go on. ?I will use a sports analogy. ?If your team sucks, egos are out of control, nobody gets along, and the coach is god awful what do you do? ?You stop going to support them until there is a change. ?You do not waste your hard earned money on that team. ?I feel the exact same way about the new GNR merchandise that has been released. ?Why buy it? ?While I do not want to start a fashion debate here I just cannot understand the logic. ?This is the same band who has let you down (insert number) times. ?While it is an extreme anology its like having your family member get killed by one of Charlie's Angels and then proudly displaying a shirt with Manson's face on it. ?

It doesn't upset me in the least that you choose not to support Axl. ?Go forward with your little boycott. ?Or better yet, buy a bunch of copies, take them out to a clearing in the wood, toss them in a pile and set fire to them, and dance around naked around your little Chinese Democracy Bonfire! ?

But, you know, why come here and tell us how much you hate Axl? ? You can't really expect heaps of support in your hatred. ?I will use your same sports analogy. ?If you hate a team, think they suck, you don't go to that team's fan website and ramble on about how much you hate them, and how much they've let you down, and actually expect a lot of support on your viewpoint, do you?

Also... you really should take some time to read up on why Axl actually wore the Charlie Manson tees. ?He has said that he did this because the media and much of the public at large has chosen to paint him as some kind of vile villian, some monster without a conscience. ?He wore that shirt as a statement... to say, you know what, I'm not like this. ?This isn't me. ?This is how you've painted me, but it isn't who I am.

But, again, artistic statements would be beyond your understanding, eh?

You are right, I am wasting my time here.... enjoy the wait!!

Oh darn, looks like he left!

[D]

I personally believe CD will be one of the greatest albums ive ever heard however Tommy saying its great doesnt hold any water at all.

Of course Tommy is gonna say its a great record

Metallica on their dvd thought St Anger was their greatest work ever.

Just cause Tommy says so doesnt mean its gonna be great, whats he gonna say?

"well a Chinese Democracy is a piece of shit but i played on it and am in the band anyway"

hell no!

but the CD i think will be the greatest cd ever made but still any bandmember is gonna think their work is amazing

[D]

War41 is one of my new favorite posters


I dont agree with boycotting but that man has a whole bunch of great points that are true.

just about everything he has said makes a lot of sense and if it was anyone but Axl we would bash the shit out of him.

i dont agree with everything but i respect people who dont care to be bashed and hammered by the entire board to post what they feel and believe to be true.

he does make lots of great points

i loved the sports analogy!

[jimmythegent]

Hopefully they will release a single, or at least the cancelled Las Vegas dvd

There was a time when they were planning to release this? If so, do yoiu have any info?

[leesixxrose]

I personally believe CD will be one of the greatest albums ive ever heard however Tommy saying its great doesnt hold any water at all.

Of course Tommy is gonna say its a great record

Metallica on their dvd thought St Anger was their greatest work ever.

Just cause Tommy says so doesnt mean its gonna be great, whats he gonna say?

"well a Chinese Democracy is a piece of shit but i played on it and am in the band anyway"

hell no!

but the CD i think will be the greatest cd ever made but still any bandmember is gonna think their work is amazing

yep... its So Cliche ... Every artist says that "this is my best record" ... The new one is ALWAYS the Best one....

[usurper]

Hopefully they will release a single, or at least the cancelled Las Vegas dvd

There was a time when they were planning to release this? If so, do yoiu have any info?

They were planning to release it around January 2002 and it got a lot of promotion but it got scrapped in the end.

[jimmythegent]

Hopefully they will release a single, or at least the cancelled Las Vegas dvd

There was a time when they were planning to release this? If so, do yoiu have any info?

They were planning to release it around January 2002 and it got a lot of promotion but it got scrapped in the end.

Thanks - that would be very cool, although Rio would be my choice. Was there an official press release or something?

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

I don't think that Axl is completely to blame for the St. Louis riot either.  I think that there were a lot of other problems that even after viewing the concert on DVD, I can't honestly say that I have knowledge of, but I don't blame Axl completely for that riot.

check out this article: http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=59
 

and to get back to the side topic 

i live in florida (held tickets for tampa and west palm beach) but I flew to new york to see the msg show...
originally i was only going to attend the msg show and return immediately because my husband was not crazy about the idea of me travelling alone...
but since the philly show was scheduled for the very next day - through much convincing (read: arguments) I extended my plans to allow for the philly show as well....
well, after msg i stayed in a hotel in manhattan and took the amtrack to philly the next day to check into a holiday inn there
and well we all know what happened to the philly show
i was there - left before it got too ugly
 ... next morning took the amtrack back to manhattan and then the subway to the airport

i got my money back for my philly ticket
and the alternate ticket agents who i purchased my west palm and tampa tickets from even did a full refund

ok... so i wasted the cabfare, trainfare, hotel fees, and my time, and went through a lot to be able to be there...
but I was not angry nor am I not bitter about it
i was mostly really sad and worried about what the hell happened and what it meant to Axl and the band and the future of GN'R

thought 'it' was all over after all the cancellations were announced
but when we slowly little by little began to learn that Axl was all right and that the band was in tact and moving forward - i felt a big relief.

so to me.. .hearing this from tommy is just another good sign - that things are moving forward - that it is going to happen

and I will gladly purchase the album

ya know we all, if not personally, know someone who has traveled and went through great expense to go to either Vancouver or Philly.  I can totally understand the dissapointment with the way things turned out for those fans - I am one of 'em.
But I tend to believe that the only way to remain positive through all this is if you have a little faith in Axl's intentions -
even if you can't understand the hows and whys ...   just to believe that he truly does care about those who support him - his fans - enables you to be a lot more lighthearted and enjoy the time we spend waiting more enjoyable.   

[Mikkamakka]

Hopefully they will release a single, or at least the cancelled Las Vegas dvd

There was a time when they were planning to release this? If so, do yoiu have any info?

They'll never release that because 2 bandmembers left since then.

[HoldenCaulfield]

I find it quite hilarious that people think Tommy (or Dizzy or whoever) don't know the current status of the album. You think he just layed down some bass lines and went on his merry way? Pfft. Tommy stating that the music "is done/has been done a while" is a whole helluva lot more assuring than "there are still a few vocal tracks that need to be layed". You can stall for so long, but when you start talking like you're down to picking out the cover art, something is gonna happen soon...

[leesixxrose]

but when you start talking like you're down to picking out the cover art, something is gonna happen soon...

they have said this before... many times they have said that the cover was picked.. they even showed it in hong kong... 

[Mikkamakka]

I find it quite hilarious that people think Tommy (or Dizzy or whoever) don't know the current status of the album. You think he just layed down some bass lines and went on his merry way? Pfft. Tommy stating that the music "is done/has been done a while" is a whole helluva lot more assuring than "there are still a few vocal tracks that need to be layed". You can stall for so long, but when you start talking like you're down to picking out the cover art, something is gonna happen soon...

Tommy and Dizzy said two years ago that CD would be released 'soon'. That's why people think they don't have a clue.

[Eva GnRAxlRosette]

but when you start talking like you're down to picking out the cover art, something is gonna happen soon...

they have said this before... many times they have said that the cover was picked.. they even showed it in hong kong...?

artwork being selected for the cover does not mean that all the artwork was finalized/completed etc.
there is more than the cover image associated with the artwork for a cd release